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TeMiL
I agree with Mocsta on TeMiL, though maybe not on whether he should be lynched for it.
- TeMiL does not have sufficient mastery of the English language to effectively play this game.
- TeMiL does not therefore have useful analysis skills, as these stem from effective interpretation of communication.
- TeMiL is therefore unable to help town. It is unfortunate but true.
- I have a complete null read on TeMiL (25% scum) other than one read: I cannot think of a possible town motive for TeMiL to talk about countries. I can think of a plausible scum explanation that pairs nicely with his communication difficulties.
TeMiL read a guide or listened to a coach when he was told that scum are supposed to mislead town with irrelevant information. For someone having difficulty with the nuances of English, talking about a geographic component to mafia fits this description perfectly.
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@Sylencia
+ Show Spoiler +On January 05 2013 01:44 Sylencia wrote:My vote before I go to bed will be currently going to jampi. I'll be back before the deadline, so jampi, if you have a defense, feel free to post it. Show nested quote +On January 03 2013 22:46 jampidampi wrote:
As to why you shouldn't lynch the current me: I prefer only to post if it has a meaning. Answearing questing and asking them. Sharing my reads on someone. Unnecessary spam just clutters the thread and hides important post. This is the reason you have given us for a lack of posts. It's one of your first posts, so it's actually more of a pre-emptive explanation of why you would be lurking. You have answered the questions presented, but you do not give us your insight unless asked. This gives me the impression you have to formulate thoughts before giving the answer. If you are a townie, there needs to be more spontaneous input when you observe something that strikes you as being off.
No-one asked me to give the town reads.
+ Show Spoiler +You posted some of your town reads, but a lot of it was based on some meta-reads and the logic behind them was still a little flawed. (The reason why the QT was brought up as a potential scum play was because it feigns ignorance, not sure if this was explained.) (Mentioning your scum play from last game doesn't make you more town, it can also be used to distance yourself from your previous game, and thus give the illusion of playing more town)
In hindsight, as I have already mentioned, I should not have shared those weak town reads at all.
+ Show Spoiler +After that, you start to zero in on Strix. Your suspicion only came to light once Mocsta had come and asked you about Strix. This strikes me as suspicious, because it really comes out of nowhere. This is why I would say if you were town, you would bring it up when you saw fit to. Ask questions about it earlier. Instead, there's a sudden accusation followed by a few points made about his posts.
There was a long time between this post and this one. In this time I analysed StriX and slept, not to mention had a real life. I didn't post my case before sleeping, because I wanted to see the response it would create.
+ Show Spoiler +In one of your points, you mention how he targets the biggest lurker we have in the group, even though he said in his policy statement he wants to LAL. If anything, that only reinforces the fact he was, at the time since he did end up retracting the vote, following what he said.
I have overlooked this fact during the orginal analysis, but that doesn't add to him contributing at all. And later he retracted that vote too.
+ Show Spoiler +Your second last statement essentially says 'what I stated against you could be town or could be scum', essentially being on the fence about whether or not he is scum. If he flips, you have some insurance if he is town by saying 'looks like it was town motivated.'
You overlook the fact that I voted for him because he has no actions that have only town motives behind them.
+ Show Spoiler +Basically, your posts give the impression you're on the fence about whether he is scum or not, you say he is contributing nothing, but you do not provide cases for anyone else and choose to tunnel on Strix.
##Vote jampi
By suspecting multiple people you lighten the pressure. Consentrating your atention to a single individual makes it more threatening.
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well ive just learn about filter
@Spag
only because am not an english native means that i cant read and understand everything.
your first post were over active players but then change aginst inactive like me, ill be defending myself with honest and simplicity.
looks like you and mocsta are working fine together isnt? voting against me and making some fluff question
On January 05 2013 00:28 Spaghetticus wrote:
Mocsta, if you are still about, what do the numbers mean? How do you define 'in session'? And what is the other, bigger number? Could you please spell this out for me please?
but wait, how you can make this question in the third post-counter post? sounds scum for me.
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@Strix
You look like you’re half way between lurking and posting fluff posts. When I skim over your filter I see nothing that looks like contribution. I am almost certainly heavily biased. If you have the time you may want to prove me wrong by highlighting some actual content from your filter? I will absolutely demand it of you come night presuming we are both still kickin’. I understand if you have other more important content to post, it is nearing lynching time so time is of the essence. Either way I expect either new content OR a defense, preferably the former.
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I'm gonna make my vote early, so this person has a chance to defend themselves.
Before I go along with my vote, I think this needs to be said as well:
Anyone voting for TeMiL at this point is being lazy, and needs to pursue other leads.
I've already explained this earlier. Just in case you missed it:
On January 04 2013 15:26 cDgCorazon wrote:
In all honesty, I think voting TeMiL right now is a pretty useless move. I think a FoS (Finger of Suspicion) towards TeMiL can be more helpful than just voting TeMiL and being done with the analysis. Voting someone that is lurking this early in the game is really just being lazy, and does not help out town at all.
So I really hope those voting for TeMiL can unvote and put their focus somewhere else. We need a decisive vote, not a vote where there are multiple people on the chopping block(like 3-2-2-2). That just creates chaos and allows the scum to thrive (it also allows them to switch votes to get who they want lynched).
@Moc: If you think he is 100% town, why are you voting for him? There are others who have acted scummy, and you are going to vote for someone who you think is 100% town? It's ridiculous, and it's scummy. You know what it reminds me of? My tunneling of Threesr in XXXIII. Same situation, and I was mafia. Seeing as your first vote for me was based off of my XXXIII play, I believe that I can be suspicious of you for the same reasons. The proof is in the pudding:
On January 05 2013 00:19 Mocsta wrote:
I am 100% sure he is town, but hes just too useless. My vote is sticking on him.
So don't be lazy. Vote for someone you think is scum, which is what I'm going to do right now.
##Vote: Jampidampi
Simply put Jampi, your play has been weak so far. You've only asked questions and made weak arguments. Not giving reads out because "you haven't been asked to" is ridiculously scummy, and put my decision on who to vote for over the edge. Your case on StriX's filter is really weak, and it just seems like you are reaching for things that make him look scummy. Truth is, there was not a lot to choose from between Zare, Jampi, and StriX, but saying that you haven't given your reads because no one has asked is simply scummy because you are afraid to share information you have with the town because you are scared the spotlight will come on you. If you are town, you shouldn't hesitate to contribute. However, you have been hesitant to contribute, which is why I'm voting for you.
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On January 05 2013 02:53 cDgCorazon wrote:
##Vote: Jampidampi
Simply put Jampi, your play has been weak so far. You've only asked questions and made weak arguments. Not giving reads out because "you haven't been asked to" is ridiculously scummy, and put my decision on who to vote for over the edge. Your case on StriX's filter is really weak, and it just seems like you are reaching for things that make him look scummy. Truth is, there was not a lot to choose from between Zare, Jampi, and StriX, but saying that you haven't given your reads because no one has asked is simply scummy because you are afraid to share information you have with the town because you are scared the spotlight will come on you. If you are town, you shouldn't hesitate to contribute. However, you have been hesitant to contribute, which is why I'm voting for you.
You must have misunderstanded my post. Sylencia stated that I have been doing nothing on my own, to which I responded that no-one asked me for the town reads and therefore, it was my own intention to bring them up. Taking what I said out of context makes it look scummy. My case on StriX may be "weak" but nothing to me suggest that a better case can made for now. Also consider that a case on someone forces them to give us more information, making even weak cases somewhat useful. The reason I may seem as "hesitant to contribute" because posting a oneliner asking a vague question or restating something does not contribute much. As I said earlier, every single post of my has meaning, be it establishing my innocence or scumhunting.
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@Corazon
Anything addressed to Mocsta will likely not be answered until night.
I have spoken at length about why I feel the way I do about lurky behaviour. That you have somehow missed this gargantuan effort on my part and attributed two out of the three most active player's voting actions to laziness speaks volumes to me about the depth of your efforts. Admittedly, you are the one completing the trifecta, so this is more of a riposte than an in depth analysis.
Just so you know, I have a note in my word pad about your efforts to preserve lurkers. I think our disagreement in this regard is of consequence, do not attribute my voting action to laziness.
That being said, I approve of your suspicion of Mocsta's final words before bed. I have scrutinised this action and it comes off as RL problems, but I could be biased. Is there any more that you wish to add to concerning Mocsta's scummy behaviour? It does remind me a lot of your scummy tunneling in XXXIII. Mocsta may seem untouchable now but anything you can force from him when he does make a slip such as now could be vital later on.
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On January 05 2013 03:08 jampidampi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 02:53 cDgCorazon wrote:
##Vote: Jampidampi
Simply put Jampi, your play has been weak so far. You've only asked questions and made weak arguments. Not giving reads out because "you haven't been asked to" is ridiculously scummy, and put my decision on who to vote for over the edge. Your case on StriX's filter is really weak, and it just seems like you are reaching for things that make him look scummy. Truth is, there was not a lot to choose from between Zare, Jampi, and StriX, but saying that you haven't given your reads because no one has asked is simply scummy because you are afraid to share information you have with the town because you are scared the spotlight will come on you. If you are town, you shouldn't hesitate to contribute. However, you have been hesitant to contribute, which is why I'm voting for you. You must have misunderstanded my post. Sylencia stated that I have been doing nothing on my own, to which I responded that no-one asked me for the town reads and therefore, it was my own intention to bring them up. Taking what I said out of context makes it look scummy. My case on StriX may be "weak" but nothing to me suggest that a better case can made for now. Also consider that a case on someone forces them to give us more information, making even weak cases somewhat useful. The reason I may seem as "hesitant to contribute" because posting a oneliner asking a vague question or restating something does not contribute much. As I said earlier, every single post of my has meaning, be it establishing my innocence or scumhunting.
If you're going to make a case, make a strong one. Don't make some half-case and vote for StriX, because then it just looks like you are trying to make a case and act town, when in reality only scum make half-cases because they need to make fallacious claims as to why someone is scum.
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On January 05 2013 03:12 Spaghetticus wrote:
Just so you know, I have a note in my word pad about your efforts to preserve lurkers. I think our disagreement in this regard is of consequence, do not attribute my voting action to laziness.
I'm only giving TeMiL D1 to fix his luckiness. I do agree that he needs to step up. As I've said, I'm all for LAL-ing on D2, but D1 LAL is just a really lazy play. You could say I'm defending TeMiL for now, but it's going to stop once D1 has ended. Trust me.
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@Jampi
Try to do more than just defend yourself. You are under pressure, but the best thing you can do for town and yourself is to be proactive rather than reactive. If someone has some particularly pertinent points feel free to address them, but you should be looking to contribute new content.
As you are now under considerable pressure yourself, I feel that I can tell you that I have ruled you out as a voting option. I was keeping this info from you to try and make you contribute, but now I sense a potential bandwagon on you that I think is not in the town's best interest. I feel the content you have submitted to be more concise, of superior analytic quality, and far less scummy than that of StiX. I'm still torn between Stix and TeMiL, for my day one vote. I think revealing this information to you has not decreased your motive to post, but has increased theirs, as their odds of my vote have gone up from 1/3 to 1/2.
Anyone that is thinking of voting for Jam should read through both the filter of Jam and Stix (they are both short), and ask themselves if there is any reason whatsoever they should vote Jam over Stix?
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On January 05 2013 03:19 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 03:08 jampidampi wrote:On January 05 2013 02:53 cDgCorazon wrote:
##Vote: Jampidampi
Simply put Jampi, your play has been weak so far. You've only asked questions and made weak arguments. Not giving reads out because "you haven't been asked to" is ridiculously scummy, and put my decision on who to vote for over the edge. Your case on StriX's filter is really weak, and it just seems like you are reaching for things that make him look scummy. Truth is, there was not a lot to choose from between Zare, Jampi, and StriX, but saying that you haven't given your reads because no one has asked is simply scummy because you are afraid to share information you have with the town because you are scared the spotlight will come on you. If you are town, you shouldn't hesitate to contribute. However, you have been hesitant to contribute, which is why I'm voting for you. You must have misunderstanded my post. Sylencia stated that I have been doing nothing on my own, to which I responded that no-one asked me for the town reads and therefore, it was my own intention to bring them up. Taking what I said out of context makes it look scummy. My case on StriX may be "weak" but nothing to me suggest that a better case can made for now. Also consider that a case on someone forces them to give us more information, making even weak cases somewhat useful. The reason I may seem as "hesitant to contribute" because posting a oneliner asking a vague question or restating something does not contribute much. As I said earlier, every single post of my has meaning, be it establishing my innocence or scumhunting. If you're going to make a case, make a strong one. Don't make some half-case and vote for StriX, because then it just looks like you are trying to make a case and act town, when in reality only scum make half-cases because they need to make fallacious claims as to why someone is scum.
You say this, yet your case on me is based on a misunderstanding. And while I try to clear that missunderstanding you ignore it, attacking something else in my post.
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@Corazon
Lynching lurkers day two is exactly what you do not want to have to do. You have disregarded everything I have posted on this matter without addressing it and it's starting to feel scummy. For the sake of you maintaining a positive town light in my eyes, could you duck through my filter and respond to my arguments as to why lynching lurkers day one is FAR superior to lynching them day two? Your position on day two LAL is from my perspective indefensible, and I would like to know why I'm wrong in thinking you uncharacteristically dense to disagree.
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On January 05 2013 02:36 Spaghetticus wrote:
@Strix
You look like you’re half way between lurking and posting fluff posts. When I skim over your filter I see nothing that looks like contribution. I am almost certainly heavily biased. If you have the time you may want to prove me wrong by highlighting some actual content from your filter? I will absolutely demand it of you come night presuming we are both still kickin’. I understand if you have other more important content to post, it is nearing lynching time so time is of the essence. Either way I expect either new content OR a defense, preferably the former.
As above, but @Sylencia
You're being just responsive enough to fly under the radar. I can't see much that you've contributed pertaining to the outcome of this game, you've responded when prompted which suggests that while you are wanting to appear active, you aren't actually doing any of the background research that leads to OC or cases. This is scummy. As I said to Strix, show me some original content you have contributed, or even better, present some you've been holding back.
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@OmniEulogy
I get a scum read off you... but...
I am not going to pursue you if I can help it. Your process is so alien to me I can't really fathom your motives. I would like other people to apply scrutiny while I look elsewhere. I just can't see you as not scum, but this was true in XXXIII and you flipped town. Please people, before you attribute a scumbuddy relationship here... ... ... ... this is too high profile and obvious. My contribution will be substantial elsewhere, I genuinely feel my objectivity is compromised entirely when dealing with Omni. This is town motivated and too bold a risk for too little a reward to be a scum ploy. I have reasonable town motive, I don't want this post to haunt me.
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Going to bed. It's 6am and I have been doing this for a laaaawng time. I'm not confident in my ability to figure this time zone stuff out, so I'm gonna set my alarm for three hours which likely means I'll be up in four. Hopefully that leave me room for lynching and all the associated hassle.
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On January 05 2013 03:27 Spaghetticus wrote:
@Corazon
Lynching lurkers day two is exactly what you do not want to have to do. You have disregarded everything I have posted on this matter without addressing it and it's starting to feel scummy. For the sake of you maintaining a positive town light in my eyes, could you duck through my filter and respond to my arguments as to why lynching lurkers day one is FAR superior to lynching them day two? Your position on day two LAL is from my perspective indefensible, and I would like to know why I'm wrong in thinking you uncharacteristically dense to disagree.
If you're going to suspect me of being scum because we differ on our LAL thinking, you're going to have to come up with more than that.
I don't like LAL on D1 because it lets the scum get by with making mistakes and allows them to get a feel of the town without having to come under scrutiny themselves. If they know we are going to just vote off TeMiL because he is lurking, they can just sit there and bandwagon him because he is being lurky. You can find a scum through holes in their arguments, because they have to make a false argument look true in order to have the town see the scum making the accusation as town and the townie being accused as scum. While I do respect your vote because you have stated multiple times that you do not tolerate lurking, I differ in those feelings.
I probably should not have said "LAL D2", I really meant that TeMiL should be hammered for his lurking, just not now. We have other players who have acted scummy, why not make a case against them now and let a better scum go down D1 than just lynch a lurker D1 and if he comes up as scum it does not matter too much cause we won't find any information from the flip (due to the fact that TeMiL hasn't defended/attacked anyone), and we can pressure TeMiL later if he does not step up to the plate.
It's the same reason that you defended me last game: Most likely bad town/mafia, we should go after bigger targets. While I don't think I should be lynched for it (especially because you flipped town last game), I think that it would be curious that you would pursue me for defending TeMiL after this point(if you do so), because it's the same logic you used last game.
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##Unvote: Zarepath given the three/four pages I need to catch up in and what I have read so far I don't believe my vote should still rest on Zare for this lynch. I think he has now contributed more than several others and it would be worse for town to lose him at this moment. I think TeMiL is just really bad town so I wont be voting for him either. I'll have a longer post written up shortly.
Also spag I only read your last post as writing this and I have no idea what you are talking about. I think you have this made up illusion that I have something against you because of NMM XXXIII. Get over it. You are trying to get people to think that we can't agree on anything and that our opinions will always be different. As I know I am town, I can only see it as a move to try to divide townies and get us to lose faith in each other, please stop or I'll assume its scum motivated instead of you dwelling too much on the past.
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On January 05 2013 04:33 OmniEulogy wrote:
Also spag I only read your last post as writing this and I have no idea what you are talking about. I think you have this made up illusion that I have something against you because of NMM XXXIII. Get over it. You are trying to get people to think that we can't agree on anything and that our opinions will always be different. As I know I am town, I can only see it as a move to try to divide townies and get us to lose faith in each other, please stop or I'll assume its scum motivated instead of you dwelling too much on the past.
That doesn't sound like a townie defense to me. Please be less emotional, and there's no need to go out of your way to say "As I know I am town."
I look forward to reading your longer post soon, grateful you're not voting for me, and am working on a long post of my own.
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On January 05 2013 04:39 zarepath wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 04:33 OmniEulogy wrote:
Also spag I only read your last post as writing this and I have no idea what you are talking about. I think you have this made up illusion that I have something against you because of NMM XXXIII. Get over it. You are trying to get people to think that we can't agree on anything and that our opinions will always be different. As I know I am town, I can only see it as a move to try to divide townies and get us to lose faith in each other, please stop or I'll assume its scum motivated instead of you dwelling too much on the past. That doesn't sound like a townie defense to me. Please be less emotional, and there's no need to go out of your way to say "As I know I am town." I look forward to reading your longer post soon, grateful you're not voting for me, and am working on a long post of my own.
I love how you decide to push OE right after he decides to back off of you. Interesting.
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That's not a push, that's calling out an emotional defense bereft of logic. No matter who'd phrased their defense in that way, I would've called it out.
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EPT
