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Right, here's how it is.
Consider this a mafiaclaim..
Now, you can read what follows in the knowledge i'm not trying to pursuade anyone of anything, even though some of it directly contradicts my mafiaclaim.
I've no idea what's going on this game. gonzaw recognised my play early on as the kinda townplay I often exhibit on omgus.net. I have no idea why he backed down from this, as it was totally correct. Don't know if he's paranoid, or weak, or what.
I don't know if CH is mafia. I'm desperately hoping he is, because I have/had plenty of respect for Acro, so I desperately want him to be mafia rather than incapable. Frankly my play this game looks nothing like my mafia games. In my mafia games I try very hard to be/look pro-town, to varying degrees of success. That's pretty much completely absent here. That's what marks my mafia meta (which is why i'm usually hard to catch, because i'm "pro-town" as mafia or town). So if Acro is town, the fact he finds this game similar to my mafia games is really depressing because it means he has no idea what he's talking about. There's a simple comparison to last game as well, where I made 2 posts, and 200 here. Kinda not surprising that the two games are opposite marv-alignments, right?
Aperture by all intents and purposes *should* be mafia with how he's played, but i dunno. There's a bunch of sheep coming on to me, so it's hard to distinguish bad town from mafia. This game is almost identical in feeling to LVIII, where Palmar made an "ironclad", "very strong" and... completely incorrect meta case on me day 1.
When I'm dead, look at who sheeped on to me and why. Examine Acro's arguments "why would we let Crossfire nerf us trololol" when if they're unkillable virtually now, why does it matter? Who sat back and let this happen because it's convenient? I actually have no idea who I trust atm, so I don't know who to appeal to to bring it home. Meh. Can't be bothered to put in the work to find out as I'm dying ^^
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Okay, lets get this shit done.
Poster, where are you? I took a brief flit over your filter and your activity was sky high on D1, moderate on D2 and D3 you have dropped off the face of the planet. Where are you? What are your current reads?
AS, where's your Rock analysis? You promised us a Rock analysis, but I don't see it. I want to save you, but I need your help. Please be a productive member of town, rather than dropping away now that town does not necessarily want to kill you.
Acro's reads
The townies
Clockwork -- flipping duh.
Stutters -- in addition to the earlier town tell, he is pigheadedly stubborn. If scum, he is willfully angering the bear (hur hur hur) by playing the wrong cards. For what? Extra damage after the game has ended. Pointless.
Aperture -- fork you. Yes, I went there 
Poster -- I may need to take a closer look at him, but I have no reason to doubt my D1 and D2 reads on him. Also, unleashed total annihilation on Xfire with 3 chain lightnings. I see no reason to claim 3 CLs (maybe 1) if he's scum.
The may be scum if we're wrongies
Rock, Nova. Not much to say yet, I have to filter them properly and kinda don't feel like it (so much work). They both gave D1 town impressions and have been doing jack since. We can't do enough damage to kill either of them anyway. I vote people distribute their damage over these targets, see plan below.
The kill with fire-ies
Suck -- Zombies snacking on his brains will be a feast for my eyes.
Scumhunting by mutual destruction
Damage potential:
Suck: 0
AS: 0
Poster: 7
Clock: 11
Nova: 4
Rock: 7
Stutters: 2
Suck is at 18 life and has a blocker (assuming he is not following his own policy), so Rock's 2/2 Ninja, Poster's BL and my Zombie tokens attack Suck. Nova gives +2/+0 to 2 unblocked creatures (or the ball lightning and 1 unblocked creature). That should bring him down to 0.
We then have a Lavamancer, a Ghoul, a Phyrexian Stalker and a Bear that can do an extra 11 damage. Tell me where that should go. My current opinion is that the stalker should hit Nova, allowing it to become a 5/5 Ninja and reanimating a 4/4 changeling. This also allows Nova's Cryptoplasm to become 5/5 next upkeep. The rest attacks Rock and does 6 damage. In compensation for Nova not blocking the Ninja, Rock does not block the incoming damage.
Reasoning: if Suck inadvertently isn't scum, then I am pretty convinced Rock or Nova is. If Suck IS scum, then none of this damage matters. If Suck is NOT scum, then both are in a position to unleash destruction on each other next turn with big creatures AND both are sufficiently lowered so the big creatures can finish the job. An unearthed Ball Lightning, the rampaging horde of zombies and a 4/4 bear will all be around to help out. Hell, maybe AS goes off and kills us all.
Nova: will you be around tomorrow during the blocking phase? If not, this all doesn't work, because we need you to block a Phyrexian Stalker if Rock decides to block damage-dealing beasties.
Other objections: but this assumes Clockwork, Stutters, Poster, and to a certain extent AS, are town!
Regarding myself, see the post above, read my filter and get comfortable with it. Regarding Stutters, see above. Regarding Poster, I am still comfortable with him being town, despite the dropoff in activity and regarding AS: it only assumes AS is town to the extent that it assumes he is either town, or won't go off tomorrow. There is no way of really assessing this risk, but I am currently comfortable with it (I think he's town).
/Acro
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Marv, what the hell do you want me to say to that: you look like scum, therefore you can't be? It's a non-sequitur. The case isn't based on meta, it's a case chaining together your scummy behaviour this game (the tiny bit of meta I invoked yesterday was to show that you're a good player, not to show you're scum). Your meta is not to look like scum as town either. You looked like town in CT. You looked like town in LIX. You don't look like town here. Saying that you're not playing anything like your scum meta is irrelevant when you're not playing anything like your town meta either.
/Acro
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On February 05 2013 22:42 Clockwork Hydra wrote:Okay, lets get this shit done. Poster, where are you? I took a brief flit over your filter and your activity was sky high on D1, moderate on D2 and D3 you have dropped off the face of the planet. Where are you? What are your current reads? AS, where's your Rock analysis? You promised us a Rock analysis, but I don't see it. I want to save you, but I need your help. Please be a productive member of town, rather than dropping away now that town does not necessarily want to kill you.
Acro's readsThe towniesClockwork -- flipping duh. Stutters -- in addition to the earlier town tell, he is pigheadedly stubborn. If scum, he is willfully angering the bear (hur hur hur) by playing the wrong cards. For what? Extra damage after the game has ended. Pointless. Aperture -- fork you. Yes, I went there Poster -- I may need to take a closer look at him, but I have no reason to doubt my D1 and D2 reads on him. Also, unleashed total annihilation on Xfire with 3 chain lightnings. I see no reason to claim 3 CLs (maybe 1) if he's scum. The may be scum if we're wrongiesRock, Nova. Not much to say yet, I have to filter them properly and kinda don't feel like it (so much work). They both gave D1 town impressions and have been doing jack since. We can't do enough damage to kill either of them anyway. I vote people distribute their damage over these targets, see plan below. The kill with fire-iesSuck -- Zombies snacking on his brains will be a feast for my eyes.
Scumhunting by mutual destructionDamage potential: Suck: 0 AS: 0 Poster: 7 Clock: 11 Nova: 4 Rock: 7 Stutters: 2 Suck is at 18 life and has a blocker (assuming he is not following his own policy), so Rock's 2/2 Ninja, Poster's BL and my Zombie tokens attack Suck. Nova gives +2/+0 to 2 unblocked creatures (or the ball lightning and 1 unblocked creature). That should bring him down to 0. We then have a Lavamancer, a Ghoul, a Phyrexian Stalker and a Bear that can do an extra 11 damage. Tell me where that should go. My current opinion is that the stalker should hit Nova, allowing it to become a 5/5 Ninja and reanimating a 4/4 changeling. This also allows Nova's Cryptoplasm to become 5/5 next upkeep. The rest attacks Rock and does 6 damage. In compensation for Nova not blocking the Ninja, Rock does not block the incoming damage. Reasoning: if Suck inadvertently isn't scum, then I am pretty convinced Rock or Nova is. If Suck IS scum, then none of this damage matters. If Suck is NOT scum, then both are in a position to unleash destruction on each other next turn with big creatures AND both are sufficiently lowered so the big creatures can finish the job. An unearthed Ball Lightning, the rampaging horde of zombies and a 4/4 bear will all be around to help out. Hell, maybe AS goes off and kills us all. Nova: will you be around tomorrow during the blocking phase? If not, this all doesn't work, because we need you to block a Phyrexian Stalker if Rock decides to block damage-dealing beasties. Other objections: but this assumes Clockwork, Stutters, Poster, and to a certain extent AS, are town! Regarding myself, see the post above, read my filter and get comfortable with it. Regarding Stutters, see above. Regarding Poster, I am still comfortable with him being town, despite the dropoff in activity and regarding AS: it only assumes AS is town to the extent that it assumes he is either town, or won't go off tomorrow. There is no way of really assessing this risk, but I am currently comfortable with it (I think he's town). /Acro
I originally thought that it was because of a lot of the same reasons you had regarding suck. Rock to some extend defends crossfire early, allowing him to play the "newbie card". I became very focused on that and saw a number of his later posts a wishy-washy. However, as iGrok mentioned, we both talked on skype and he convinced me that rock is more likely town than nova or stutters in our opinion.
Im sorry I havent had a lot of input today, but I think I have made my opinions known. I think your suck case is good and I think scum definatly resides somewhere between him, nova, or stutters, however I am no longer sure of the order. There is nothing we can do to help in this coming attack phase after our fork, but after im done with class for the rest of the day I will be ready to give any input I can.
-GreY
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Is there a chance there is more than 2 scum in this game?
Then what are we talking about? We have suck and xfire
xfire is already just about dead. So just kill suck and do a celabratory dance.
Or wtf does marv mean with her mafia claim? All I read after her claim was "WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM"
/zebezt
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On February 05 2013 22:51 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
Marv, what the hell do you want me to say to that: you look like scum, therefore you can't be? It's a non-sequitur. The case isn't based on meta, it's a case chaining together your scummy behaviour this game (the tiny bit of meta I invoked yesterday was to show that you're a good player, not to show you're scum). Your meta is not to look like scum as town either. You looked like town in CT. You looked like town in LIX. You don't look like town here. Saying that you're not playing anything like your scum meta is irrelevant when you're not playing anything like your town meta either.
/Acro
I'm playing like I tend to play in heavily themed games for light relief. See Parallels where I mostly trolled through the game. I don't know why you ignore LVIII and Paranoia, two recent games where I almost got lynched as town, but whatever.
I mean, according to you, I'm a mafia who 'discredited' the case on Crossfire just before Crossfire decided to claim scum. I'm also mafia who made some brilliant play to get Crossfire to avoid damage in-thread. This is a couple of posts of mine from my most recent game on omgus.net:
Kira wrote:
this is pretty terrible. And the people who are randomly putting their vote on me have failed to explain what it is about who and why i've pushed as mafia is bad. Fairly glad I'm not spending any time on this game, really. If palm gets back I'll sheep his vote, as long as it's not on me. gonna vote brndn in the meanwhile
Kira wrote:
Just popping in. I'm sheeping palm. Hope you got this right, buddy.
On the bright side, if it's a mislynch, Pez isn't flipping blue. This isn't his blue play, certainly.
##Unvote
##Vote: Pez
Oh look, marv under pressure for kicking back and doing jack shit, then openly sheeping his strongest town-read.
I hate that gonz has disappeared, and reversed his townread on me, based exactly on games like the one I've taken from above, which literally finished 1-2 weeks ago. It makes me doubt my strong townread on him. I didn't sign up this game to play mafia like I did in LIX, that was srs stuff. I played this game for fun and to hopefully lynch some mafia along the way.
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On February 05 2013 23:03 RockHydra wrote:
Is there a chance there is more than 2 scum in this game?
Then what are we talking about? We have suck and xfire
xfire is already just about dead. So just kill suck and do a celabratory dance.
Or wtf does marv mean with her mafia claim? All I read after her claim was "WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM"
/zebezt
Her? wtf?
By my mafiaclaim, it means I can't be arsed to argue out of my way of dying, but I still wanna talk to town without people going "ARGH MAFIA DON'T LISTEN AHAHA"
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On February 05 2013 23:03 RockHydra wrote:
Is there a chance there is more than 2 scum in this game?
Then what are we talking about? We have suck and xfire
xfire is already just about dead. So just kill suck and do a celabratory dance.
Or wtf does marv mean with her mafia claim? All I read after her claim was "WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM"
/zebezt
Except I am not 100% sure that Suck is scum and neither should you be. I would repeat the mantra that nobody is confirmed until the flip, but it doesn't really hold in this game because Xfire actually claimed scum. Nevertheless, it holds for Marv. So, while I fully expect him to flip scum, that doesn't mean we don't plan for other contingencies.
If he IS scum, then you took 6 damage but the game is over.
If he's not scum, then you took 6 damage, but also got 2 big beasties out. Overall, a pretty good trade. Same deal for Nova. If either of you ninja-blocks, then the other blocks the damage too (no harm done) and we murder whoever ninja-blocked the next day. It is really simple.
So what you should be doing right now is checking myself, Stutters, Poster, and to a certain extent AS, to see if you agree with the town reads in the plan, because that's the main thing it hinges on.
@Greymist: I will reread Stutters' filter. He has addressed your earlier analysis and I would like you to make an updated case that does not require me to look through a spreadsheet that ignores the context of a lot of posts. Also, what do you think of my own analysis of Stutters? Both Dandel and I have him as a strong town read, but I will redo the filtering to be sure.
/Acro
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On February 05 2013 23:41 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 23:03 RockHydra wrote:
Is there a chance there is more than 2 scum in this game?
Then what are we talking about? We have suck and xfire
xfire is already just about dead. So just kill suck and do a celabratory dance.
Or wtf does marv mean with her mafia claim? All I read after her claim was "WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM"
/zebezt Except I am not 100% sure that Suck is scum and neither should you be. I would repeat the mantra that nobody is confirmed until the flip, but it doesn't really hold in this game because Xfire actually claimed scum. Nevertheless, it holds for Marv. So, while I fully expect him to flip scum, that doesn't mean we don't plan for other contingencies. If he IS scum, then you took 6 damage but the game is over. If he's not scum, then you took 6 damage, but also got 2 big beasties out. Overall, a pretty good trade. Same deal for Nova. If either of you ninja-blocks, then the other blocks the damage too (no harm done) and we murder whoever ninja-blocked the next day. It is really simple. So what you should be doing right now is checking myself, Stutters, Poster, and to a certain extent AS, to see if you agree with the town reads in the plan, because that's the main thing it hinges on. @Greymist: I will reread Stutters' filter. He has addressed your earlier analysis and I would like you to make an updated case that does not require me to look through a spreadsheet that ignores the context of a lot of posts. Also, what do you think of my own analysis of Stutters? Both Dandel and I have him as a strong town read, but I will redo the filtering to be sure. /Acro
![[image loading]](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=129022&type=card)
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I have no idea why we should let people attack us. Just because you are too lazy to read our filter? That would put us super in scumbeast reach if I'm not mistaken. What is your plan there?
We should just attack the scummy people: suck/nova
/zebezt
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You said it yourself.
Attack people.
And attacking Nova (who you btw have as a scumread in case you forgot) should not be a problem for you, no? And it would allow you to reanimate a baller changeling for further terrible damage next turn.
What exactly is your problem about it?
~dandel
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Since I was asked, I decided this had to be publicized.
A player may attack multiple other players in the same turn.
Once you announce an attack, it is locked in; you may no longer change your attack target with that creature.
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On February 06 2013 00:12 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
You said it yourself.
Attack people.
And attacking Nova (who you btw have as a scumread in case you forgot) should not be a problem for you, no? And it would allow you to reanimate a baller changeling for further terrible damage next turn.
What exactly is your problem about it?
~dandel
The part where people have a null read on us, whereas we have a scum read on Nova. I'd rather pop Suck and Nova today, but not at the cost of everyone just throws damage wherever the hell they feel like. I don't know where we stand on flipping AS today. Is that still a thing?
~Hopeless
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I have no problem attacking nova with the creatures we have out now.
But we will block anyone attacking us with the creatures we are casting this turn.
Town is not helped at all by us dying.
/zebezt
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Glad my other head agrees
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On February 06 2013 00:33 RockHydra wrote:
I have no problem attacking nova with the creatures we have out now.
But we will block anyone attacking us with the creatures we are casting this turn.
Town is not helped at all by us dying.
/zebezt
If you block, Nova blocks. You don't get a 5/5 baller OR a 4/4 baller. You do not deal damage. You do not pass go. It is fucking stupid.
/Acro
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So you want to kill half the players in the game, but don't like plans where you attack your very own scumreads.
While chump blocking like a little girl.
Gotcha.
~dandel
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My other head also disagrees.
MAGIC!
~dandel
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EPT
