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On January 30 2013 06:19 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 05:31 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
You also failed to answer the main question there: do you think we're scum? Sure, people's judgement in using 8/8 tramply beasts of awesome might not always be the best, but unless we actually GET some 8/8 tramply beasts of awesome on town side, we're just punching bags for the mafia creature. Minds Aglow seems by far the fastest way to get there.
Now obviously, if you think the 8/8 tramply creature (or in this case shambling herd of zombies) is going to scum, then by all means oppose it. But don't hide in policy crap. Come out and say "look guys, we should not draw millions of cards, because scum will get a shambling herd of zombies".
/Acro i dont have to think you're scum to not want you to get more powerful than anyone else. I just have to think you're likely to come to incorrect conclusions and not listen to me. I think that if you alone have a shambling herd of zombies, that's not good for town, regardless of whether you are town or not.
its like electing a mayor. i dont want to vote for you, acrofales, to be mayor.
(coughcoughholyromanmafiacough)
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On January 30 2013 06:19 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 05:31 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
You also failed to answer the main question there: do you think we're scum? Sure, people's judgement in using 8/8 tramply beasts of awesome might not always be the best, but unless we actually GET some 8/8 tramply beasts of awesome on town side, we're just punching bags for the mafia creature. Minds Aglow seems by far the fastest way to get there.
Now obviously, if you think the 8/8 tramply creature (or in this case shambling herd of zombies) is going to scum, then by all means oppose it. But don't hide in policy crap. Come out and say "look guys, we should not draw millions of cards, because scum will get a shambling herd of zombies".
/Acro i dont have to think you're scum to not want you to get more powerful than anyone else. I just have to think you're likely to come to incorrect conclusions and not listen to me. I think that if you alone have a shambling herd of zombies, that's not good for town, regardless of whether you are town or not.
SnB I presume?
Well, lets play this game.
1. What is the difference between this situation and town being given a vig? You have no control over who the vig shoots. Your job is therefore to help him scumhunt and make the right shot. So far you have done zip diddly squat of that.
2. I am presuming you are STILL butthurt over HRM? Can't see what else this can be. Also, if you make a convincing argument that someone is scum, or at the very least that you are not scum, then of course we'll listen. After like 4 or 5 games together I figure you'd know me as a pretty reasonable guy.
/Acro
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On January 30 2013 06:25 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 06:19 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:On January 30 2013 05:31 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
You also failed to answer the main question there: do you think we're scum? Sure, people's judgement in using 8/8 tramply beasts of awesome might not always be the best, but unless we actually GET some 8/8 tramply beasts of awesome on town side, we're just punching bags for the mafia creature. Minds Aglow seems by far the fastest way to get there.
Now obviously, if you think the 8/8 tramply creature (or in this case shambling herd of zombies) is going to scum, then by all means oppose it. But don't hide in policy crap. Come out and say "look guys, we should not draw millions of cards, because scum will get a shambling herd of zombies".
/Acro i dont have to think you're scum to not want you to get more powerful than anyone else. I just have to think you're likely to come to incorrect conclusions and not listen to me. I think that if you alone have a shambling herd of zombies, that's not good for town, regardless of whether you are town or not. its like electing a mayor. i dont want to vote for you, acrofales, to be mayor. (coughcoughholyromanmafiacough)
Eh, like 95% of the game I was a fucking awesome mayor. I screwed up on trolling with Drazerk in the last day. That doesn't mean I didn't play a good game the other 95%. Also, get over it. That was half a year and like 4 or 5 games together ago.
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On January 30 2013 06:24 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 05:27 Clockwork Hydra wrote:On January 30 2013 05:16 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:On January 30 2013 04:10 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
@Marv: you said SnB wasn't around, yet he dropped in to play a Savannah (in a slightly trolly way) before you posted your "help me, SnB deserted me" and has now posted a long policy post. Why did you excuse yourself due to SnB's absence, despite SnB clearly not being absent.
@SnB: unless you plan on wiping out everybody else in turn 2 or 3 or so, you will have to rely on your fellow townies. We play as a team. Making every part of that team stronger is good. Now if you're worried about zombies (Nova and iGrok as well), then you should probably start analysing our posts. We have made enough of them and have been rather transparent. Do you think we're scum?
/Acro I want to make *everybody* stronger. I don't want to put a disproportionate amount of strength in any one specific player. You're distorting my position. Yet you seem opposed to drawing cards. So far Gonzaw has claimed he can get benefits from discarding. We get a benefit from discarding. That's 2 players. Everybody else strengthens their hand. Next turn, there's probably a lot of land coming anybody who plays basic lands in their deck. That strengthens everybody further. What alternative plan do you have for your mana? i'm not opposed to drawing cards, it would just be better for me (and I think for the rest of town) to do it turn2 so we have to discard less. If it really would be better to do it today then let's go, but I'm not convinced that it's the best decision for the town. But I'm kind of reconsidering that if it makes it likely that we could play that "get all your basic lands" card.
What else would you spend your mana on?
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On January 30 2013 04:33 RockHydra wrote:I disagree with the notion of everything that can attack should attack. However, I would only accept that if you were legitimately doing other things, instead of simply not attacking. The combat phase is like the voting structure, so if you either don't have creatures, or you have abilities that you want to use instead of attacking, I would like an explanation of what you intend to do and why. In addition, if you cannot contribute to the attacking phase itself, I'd like input on who you would like to have focused down, if anyone.
I can't say I have anyone who I really think is scum yet. iGrok is the trolliest of us, so he's the lowest level of null in terms of who I would be inclined to attack. Clockwork and ThePoster are active and from my perspective are trying to steer the town in the "correct" (whatever that means) direction from their point of view. Stutters has yet to follow through on: I'm willing to let slide the initial posting because he said he was at work. I initially found it scummy that ThePoster took a swing at stutters for being afkish last night, but he's done that to almost everything in the thread (looking at you gonzaw). Stutter's you caught up yet or what? You should have had plenty of time by now, give us something. Regarding Xfire, and what I asked Acro to expand upon -> If you haven't seen cross' mafia play from Mario mini, consult with Dandel (he co-hosted). I believe I can "feel" his enthusiasm towards this game and based on what I've seen of his scum play, my gut-read is town on him from his opening post alone. Obviously this is a meta read, but his filter is too short to make anything more than that out of it. BinOnFire seems to have a very pro-town deck setup, so his posting so far, while generally beneficial for town, is pigeonholed due to the nature of the deck he's running. Aside from wanting to keep him around because we will all benefit, I don't see any great contributions to develop a town OR scum read on him. I'm null on Nova. His posting doesn't give off scumvibes, and he gave out reads seemingly as soon as they came to mind when he found his way into the thread. However, he developed a suspicion on CH and went off on a speculation tangent: + Show Spoiler +On January 30 2013 02:47 Nova_Terra wrote:
2 things before dinner:
I feel that ThePoster is doing a fine job, and has been attempting to do more actual scumhunting and pro-town things than the rest of us. Compared to CH, where I find that much if not most of the time he has been trying to explain why he feels that Minds Aglow is good for the entire town, not only for him. the second thing is related to this:
How is Minds Aglow particularly pro town? If we have to discard back to 7 anyway, I don't like giving CH 10 zombies. Why? Because if he gets 10 zombies before we can get anything that could even come close to rivaling that and he turns out to be scum, we're screwed. Thats like mafia having 30 kp, and we couldnt even be sure if he IS scum because he could just target "scummy" town players. kill 2 of them, and the games like, over. unless someone draws some miracle, that is.
with a lot of hypothetical thinking that assumes CH is scum. I'm fine with general paranoia, but this post just felt a little to assertive in picking a target. Generally waiting to see what SMTD does, as marv isn't exactly readable day1 and SnB has posted very little.
Dont get me wrong, im pretty much null on CH. I do think it is much too early to give a null read that much power tho.
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So Nova, do you have any reads that are not null besides a town read on us? (me? How does one use the personal when one is more than one person?)
P
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On January 30 2013 06:44 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
So Nova, do you have any reads that are not null besides a town read on us? (me? How does one use the personal when one is more than one person?)
P
We were wondering when you'd make your appearance. You should drop in more often. Can you give us your own personal opinion on the state of the game?
/both
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On January 30 2013 06:41 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 04:33 RockHydra wrote:I disagree with the notion of everything that can attack should attack. However, I would only accept that if you were legitimately doing other things, instead of simply not attacking. The combat phase is like the voting structure, so if you either don't have creatures, or you have abilities that you want to use instead of attacking, I would like an explanation of what you intend to do and why. In addition, if you cannot contribute to the attacking phase itself, I'd like input on who you would like to have focused down, if anyone.
I can't say I have anyone who I really think is scum yet. iGrok is the trolliest of us, so he's the lowest level of null in terms of who I would be inclined to attack. Clockwork and ThePoster are active and from my perspective are trying to steer the town in the "correct" (whatever that means) direction from their point of view. Stutters has yet to follow through on: On January 30 2013 00:48 Stutters695 wrote:
I'm up, catching up now. I'm willing to let slide the initial posting because he said he was at work. I initially found it scummy that ThePoster took a swing at stutters for being afkish last night, but he's done that to almost everything in the thread (looking at you gonzaw). Stutter's you caught up yet or what? You should have had plenty of time by now, give us something. Regarding Xfire, and what I asked Acro to expand upon -> If you haven't seen cross' mafia play from Mario mini, consult with Dandel (he co-hosted). I believe I can "feel" his enthusiasm towards this game and based on what I've seen of his scum play, my gut-read is town on him from his opening post alone. Obviously this is a meta read, but his filter is too short to make anything more than that out of it. BinOnFire seems to have a very pro-town deck setup, so his posting so far, while generally beneficial for town, is pigeonholed due to the nature of the deck he's running. Aside from wanting to keep him around because we will all benefit, I don't see any great contributions to develop a town OR scum read on him. I'm null on Nova. His posting doesn't give off scumvibes, and he gave out reads seemingly as soon as they came to mind when he found his way into the thread. However, he developed a suspicion on CH and went off on a speculation tangent: + Show Spoiler +On January 30 2013 02:47 Nova_Terra wrote:
2 things before dinner:
I feel that ThePoster is doing a fine job, and has been attempting to do more actual scumhunting and pro-town things than the rest of us. Compared to CH, where I find that much if not most of the time he has been trying to explain why he feels that Minds Aglow is good for the entire town, not only for him. the second thing is related to this:
How is Minds Aglow particularly pro town? If we have to discard back to 7 anyway, I don't like giving CH 10 zombies. Why? Because if he gets 10 zombies before we can get anything that could even come close to rivaling that and he turns out to be scum, we're screwed. Thats like mafia having 30 kp, and we couldnt even be sure if he IS scum because he could just target "scummy" town players. kill 2 of them, and the games like, over. unless someone draws some miracle, that is.
with a lot of hypothetical thinking that assumes CH is scum. I'm fine with general paranoia, but this post just felt a little to assertive in picking a target. Generally waiting to see what SMTD does, as marv isn't exactly readable day1 and SnB has posted very little. Dont get me wrong, im pretty much null on CH. I do think it is much too early to give a null read that much power tho.
Nice non-committal stance. I believe we have the highest postcount and it's not all meaningless setup banter either.
Do you have an opinion of Poster?
/Acro
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Yeah Nova, what about that Stutters thing you found initially?
And what about me+CH going against Crossfire? Do you agree with us?
/G
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Yes, i have a slight suspicion of stutters for his early posting, which is only slight as if hes at work it makes sense, and slight suspicion of crossfire for the reason already said.
I am not particularly suspicious of Aperture Science, as i feel they/he would be acting differently if he was scum. I do understand how grey's post rubbed a bit weird, but i think that it was less of a scum problem than a phrasing problem.
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On January 30 2013 06:37 Clockwork Hydra wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 06:24 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:On January 30 2013 05:27 Clockwork Hydra wrote:On January 30 2013 05:16 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:On January 30 2013 04:10 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
@Marv: you said SnB wasn't around, yet he dropped in to play a Savannah (in a slightly trolly way) before you posted your "help me, SnB deserted me" and has now posted a long policy post. Why did you excuse yourself due to SnB's absence, despite SnB clearly not being absent.
@SnB: unless you plan on wiping out everybody else in turn 2 or 3 or so, you will have to rely on your fellow townies. We play as a team. Making every part of that team stronger is good. Now if you're worried about zombies (Nova and iGrok as well), then you should probably start analysing our posts. We have made enough of them and have been rather transparent. Do you think we're scum?
/Acro I want to make *everybody* stronger. I don't want to put a disproportionate amount of strength in any one specific player. You're distorting my position. Yet you seem opposed to drawing cards. So far Gonzaw has claimed he can get benefits from discarding. We get a benefit from discarding. That's 2 players. Everybody else strengthens their hand. Next turn, there's probably a lot of land coming anybody who plays basic lands in their deck. That strengthens everybody further. What alternative plan do you have for your mana? i'm not opposed to drawing cards, it would just be better for me (and I think for the rest of town) to do it turn2 so we have to discard less. If it really would be better to do it today then let's go, but I'm not convinced that it's the best decision for the town. But I'm kind of reconsidering that if it makes it likely that we could play that "get all your basic lands" card. What else would you spend your mana on?
fertile ground or wild growth
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Sorry bro(s) I had one hell of a weekend, I've got some free hours today though so I'm here. I'll be here as much as I can, you know I just can't quit you.
I like where we are, as a whole town seems to be scum hunting instead of set-up hunting which is what Gon and I said should be our day one goal if we rolled town. I am not too fussed about using mind aglow today as long as we don't have to discard a million cards, I know Gon already mentioned this but I think forcing all for town to discard 20 cards is actually anti-town (once again it goes back to numbers, town is discarding 7 cards for every two mafia discards).
I have some decent town reads and I'm working on narrowing the suspect list so in terms of day one I'd say we're doing pretty pretty decent.
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On January 30 2013 07:00 Clockwork Hydra wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 06:41 Nova_Terra wrote:On January 30 2013 04:33 RockHydra wrote:I disagree with the notion of everything that can attack should attack. However, I would only accept that if you were legitimately doing other things, instead of simply not attacking. The combat phase is like the voting structure, so if you either don't have creatures, or you have abilities that you want to use instead of attacking, I would like an explanation of what you intend to do and why. In addition, if you cannot contribute to the attacking phase itself, I'd like input on who you would like to have focused down, if anyone.
I can't say I have anyone who I really think is scum yet. iGrok is the trolliest of us, so he's the lowest level of null in terms of who I would be inclined to attack. Clockwork and ThePoster are active and from my perspective are trying to steer the town in the "correct" (whatever that means) direction from their point of view. Stutters has yet to follow through on: On January 30 2013 00:48 Stutters695 wrote:
I'm up, catching up now. I'm willing to let slide the initial posting because he said he was at work. I initially found it scummy that ThePoster took a swing at stutters for being afkish last night, but he's done that to almost everything in the thread (looking at you gonzaw). Stutter's you caught up yet or what? You should have had plenty of time by now, give us something. Regarding Xfire, and what I asked Acro to expand upon -> If you haven't seen cross' mafia play from Mario mini, consult with Dandel (he co-hosted). I believe I can "feel" his enthusiasm towards this game and based on what I've seen of his scum play, my gut-read is town on him from his opening post alone. Obviously this is a meta read, but his filter is too short to make anything more than that out of it. BinOnFire seems to have a very pro-town deck setup, so his posting so far, while generally beneficial for town, is pigeonholed due to the nature of the deck he's running. Aside from wanting to keep him around because we will all benefit, I don't see any great contributions to develop a town OR scum read on him. I'm null on Nova. His posting doesn't give off scumvibes, and he gave out reads seemingly as soon as they came to mind when he found his way into the thread. However, he developed a suspicion on CH and went off on a speculation tangent: + Show Spoiler +On January 30 2013 02:47 Nova_Terra wrote:
2 things before dinner:
I feel that ThePoster is doing a fine job, and has been attempting to do more actual scumhunting and pro-town things than the rest of us. Compared to CH, where I find that much if not most of the time he has been trying to explain why he feels that Minds Aglow is good for the entire town, not only for him. the second thing is related to this:
How is Minds Aglow particularly pro town? If we have to discard back to 7 anyway, I don't like giving CH 10 zombies. Why? Because if he gets 10 zombies before we can get anything that could even come close to rivaling that and he turns out to be scum, we're screwed. Thats like mafia having 30 kp, and we couldnt even be sure if he IS scum because he could just target "scummy" town players. kill 2 of them, and the games like, over. unless someone draws some miracle, that is.
with a lot of hypothetical thinking that assumes CH is scum. I'm fine with general paranoia, but this post just felt a little to assertive in picking a target. Generally waiting to see what SMTD does, as marv isn't exactly readable day1 and SnB has posted very little. Dont get me wrong, im pretty much null on CH. I do think it is much too early to give a null read that much power tho. Nice non-committal stance. I believe we have the highest postcount and it's not all meaningless setup banter either. Do you have an opinion of Poster? /Acro
Leaning town
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If there isnt muh additional posting and help made by crossfire and stutters by tomorrow, i will be significantly more worried about those two.
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Not significant posting is indicative of them as players though, not of them as scum. In fact you'll find that stutters has never had a game of scum on TL but pulls this useless bullshit all the time. Do you think both of Stutters and Xfire could be scum? Who else do you find scummy?
P
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On January 30 2013 07:03 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Sorry bro(s) I had one hell of a weekend, I've got some free hours today though so I'm here. I'll be here as much as I can, you know I just can't quit you.
I like where we are, as a whole town seems to be scum hunting instead of set-up hunting which is what Gon and I said should be our day one goal if we rolled town. I am not too fussed about using mind aglow today as long as we don't have to discard a million cards, I know Gon already mentioned this but I think forcing all for town to discard 20 cards is actually anti-town (once again it goes back to numbers, town is discarding 7 cards for every two mafia discards).
I have some decent town reads and I'm working on narrowing the suspect list so in terms of day one I'd say we're doing pretty pretty decent.
As said before: discarding is only bad if you have to discard good shit. If you have to discard a load of land and a couple of cheap creatures when you can play your fatties next turn, it definitely doesn't hurt. It also allows any combo deck to pick the pieces together. Discard is only bad if you discard bad stuff. There's a reason cards like Merfolk Looter and Careful Study aren't seen as bad: you get to draw good stuff and discard shit. It may not be pure card advantage, but it's definitely boosting the quality of your hand.
Especially as Bin can tell us whether he'll cast Voyage next turn before the discard phase, allowing you to plan ahead for that.
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On January 30 2013 07:10 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Not significant posting is indicative of them as players though, not of them as scum. In fact you'll find that stutters has never had a game of scum on TL but pulls this useless bullshit all the time. Do you think both of Stutters and Xfire could be scum? Who else do you find scummy?
P
The probability of them both being scum and acting like that is low. I'm more suspicious of crossfire than stutters. I'm currently looking at Marv+s&b's filter, and i'm seeing things that i dont like. I'd love it if we could all take a look at their filter, because i'm not sure if what im finding scummy is just (marv's?) typical posting style or if it is actually scummy. Also, there is the s&b policy post, which looked to me like a cut and pasted prepared "See im doing stuff!" type post. With relevant informatiOn added in after, of course.
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As I say, I'm happy to use it and gain some cards, Gon and I suffer from different play styles. As you can guess by the deck I ran last time I am 1)bad at magic and 2)a cautious kind of player. I don't like discarding but Gon has shown me that it makes sense for our deck (he made it before we hydra'd) and he is right, it does. However we have a low number of basic lands and we would be pretty screwed if we drew a bunch and had to discard them or good cards. I'm happy to draw some cards (I suggested in our qt that 4-6 was optimal) but would prefer not to draw a lot of cards in case we lose our small collection of lands.
N
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errr...
P
(my real life name starts with N)
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On January 30 2013 07:03 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 06:37 Clockwork Hydra wrote:On January 30 2013 06:24 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:On January 30 2013 05:27 Clockwork Hydra wrote:On January 30 2013 05:16 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:On January 30 2013 04:10 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
@Marv: you said SnB wasn't around, yet he dropped in to play a Savannah (in a slightly trolly way) before you posted your "help me, SnB deserted me" and has now posted a long policy post. Why did you excuse yourself due to SnB's absence, despite SnB clearly not being absent.
@SnB: unless you plan on wiping out everybody else in turn 2 or 3 or so, you will have to rely on your fellow townies. We play as a team. Making every part of that team stronger is good. Now if you're worried about zombies (Nova and iGrok as well), then you should probably start analysing our posts. We have made enough of them and have been rather transparent. Do you think we're scum?
/Acro I want to make *everybody* stronger. I don't want to put a disproportionate amount of strength in any one specific player. You're distorting my position. Yet you seem opposed to drawing cards. So far Gonzaw has claimed he can get benefits from discarding. We get a benefit from discarding. That's 2 players. Everybody else strengthens their hand. Next turn, there's probably a lot of land coming anybody who plays basic lands in their deck. That strengthens everybody further. What alternative plan do you have for your mana? i'm not opposed to drawing cards, it would just be better for me (and I think for the rest of town) to do it turn2 so we have to discard less. If it really would be better to do it today then let's go, but I'm not convinced that it's the best decision for the town. But I'm kind of reconsidering that if it makes it likely that we could play that "get all your basic lands" card. What else would you spend your mana on? fertile ground or wild growth
Pro tip: you can play both. Why enchants over elves? What deck you running?
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EPT
