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11589 Posts
So we're lurker lynching with these people? I haven't seen stutters, eywa, or vivax do anything significant yet. It's a crap shoot between them.
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On December 23 2012 05:16 yamato77 wrote:
So we're lurker lynching with these people? I haven't seen stutters, eywa, or vivax do anything significant yet. It's a crap shoot between them.
So you still suggest Prom?
At this point I'm leaning lynch Stutters, vivax, or Eywa. hopefully Eywa gets modkilled.
That leaves us at 2 lurkers.
We lynch one of the other 2.
1 lurker left.
We get rid of the last lurker in the night.
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11589 Posts
Yeah but then we're wasting our vig shot and a lynch just to solve the lurker problem.
From their filters I think vivax is town. Eywa I think might be bad but I feel he has the best chance to flip scum. Stutters I have no idea.
But yeah I still think Prome has a good chance to flip scum. Look at the reasons I posted for suspecting him and what he continues to do in the thread and tell me I'm wrong.
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On December 23 2012 05:30 yamato77 wrote:
Yeah but then we're wasting our vig shot and a lynch just to solve the lurker problem.
From their filters I think vivax is town. Eywa I think might be bad but I feel he has the best chance to flip scum. Stutters I have no idea.
But yeah I still think Prome has a good chance to flip scum. Look at the reasons I posted for suspecting him and what he continues to do in the thread and tell me I'm wrong.
Yeah but with the vig shot, that's 6 pretty much confirmed town counted by me. The sooner we get rid of the hard to read lurkers, we can pretty much just cruise to victory (and that's if both of the scum aren't lurkers)
Using the vig shot on the lurkers is an extremely high percentage play right now
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On December 23 2012 05:01 debears wrote:
@Scribs
Who do you feel is the best lynch out of Vivax, WBG, and Stutters?
*hypothetical that you don't want to lynch me today*
@Debears
While it's not exactly comforting that he hasn't posted in almost 24 hours, I'm still thinking town on Vivax.
WBG has been disagreeable, and I haven't liked his reads much. Idk if this necessarily makes him scum, but he has given me no reason to believe he is town.
I'm leaning town on Stutters.
So WBG > Stutters > Vivax
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11589 Posts
I agree vig shot should be aimed at the lurkers but we still need to lynch someone today and I don't want to lurker lynch because if they don't flip scum it's basically a wasted lynch due to how easy it is for scum to agree to. That still leaves us with you, WBG, and Prome as potential active scum in my eyes. Better start a WBG case if you're not going to lynch Prome with me.
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why the fuck are you guys wifoming yourselves over the RB? Occam's razor, I was roleblocked because scum roleblocked me.
There is no other roleblock claim, and I seriously doubt a jailkeeper targetted me given that Palmar was a far better target for the scum shot last night (unless he assumed mafia wouldn't shoot Palmar)
+ Show Spoiler +There is the possibility of SK, but that seems unlikely given that the correct action for an SK after a scum lynch d1 would have been to simply shoot someone, so that town + mafia are evened up somewhat. The only way that an SK is possible is if he held his shot or shot me, and I was protected by a jailkeeper. Not likely at all and that idea is too fucking complicated to be considered right now.
Secondly, someone pointed out, do I find them scummier than debears or whatever the fuck (I think it was sciberbia). I find most of the people I didn't eliminate from being scum as scummier than debears, given the fact that I find it highly unlikely debears would attack Toad so strongly as scum and then just kill him. Toad makes an easy mislynch, simply because he spouts so much shit all the time. It's dumb to throw away an easy mislynch when you've lost your godfather on d1.
I think I might be overlooking Promethelax given that I seriously thought zelblade was scum. So, if one of stutters/eywa is not scum then Promethelax is a good lead too. Having reread everything I still think sciberbia and debears are likely town, it's just process of elimination. If you kill any of those players and they flip town the scum HAVE to be somewhere. It's just not likely at this point (i.e. go through stutters first)
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also how the fuck do we even know if we have a vig?
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On December 23 2012 05:40 wherebugsgo wrote:why the fuck are you guys wifoming yourselves over the RB? Occam's razor, I was roleblocked because scum roleblocked me. There is no other roleblock claim, and I seriously doubt a jailkeeper targetted me given that Palmar was a far better target for the scum shot last night (unless he assumed mafia wouldn't shoot Palmar) + Show Spoiler +There is the possibility of SK, but that seems unlikely given that the correct action for an SK after a scum lynch d1 would have been to simply shoot someone, so that town + mafia are evened up somewhat. The only way that an SK is possible is if he held his shot or shot me, and I was protected by a jailkeeper. Not likely at all and that idea is too fucking complicated to be considered right now. Secondly, someone pointed out, do I find them scummier than debears or whatever the fuck (I think it was sciberbia). I find most of the people I didn't eliminate from being scum as scummier than debears, given the fact that I find it highly unlikely debears would attack Toad so strongly as scum and then just kill him. Toad makes an easy mislynch, simply because he spouts so much shit all the time. It's dumb to throw away an easy mislynch when you've lost your godfather on d1. I think I might be overlooking Promethelax given that I seriously thought zelblade was scum. So, if one of stutters/eywa is not scum then Promethelax is a good lead too. Having reread everything I still think sciberbia and debears are likely town, it's just process of elimination. If you kill any of those players and they flip town the scum HAVE to be somewhere. It's just not likely at this point (i.e. go through stutters first)
Ok Bugs
What is your order of lynch priority after stutters?
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@Palmar
What's your read on Stutters, Vivax, Eywa?
Order of Priority on those three?
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actually, fuck. I just realized I made a pretty big mistake.
this post:
On December 21 2012 15:53 debears wrote:Here are my pretty certain reads. One thing that I want to stress is how easily the Wiggles lynch came about. What does this tell us about the characteristics of the mafia? They are weak and unable to fight, or they were not around to fight the lynch. Townie Town Townyamato77
Palmar Both were the first two to vote wiggles. Both pushed for his lynch. Likely TownToadesstern - looking back at his posts, especially his vote post, he rings town. There's some possibility for scum, but he was the third to vote Wiggles. I feel he could have easily pushed for my mislynch with all the shit that was being believed in the thread Slight TownScribs - His posting was focused, with a townie mindset. His late vote (4th in the order) on Wiggles is alarming though after he kept saying that Wiggles was the scummiest looking Nullzelblade - didn't vote. Got modkilled. I wouldn't worry too much about him right now with Prom taking over. No motivation from either side for his d1, especially the part of not voting, which I would say is slightly more town indicative. Stutters695 - he was 7th to vote for Wiggles. His explanation : avoid a modkill. I feel that this is a classic case of too scummy to be scum. Why on earth would scum say that and draw attention to themselves like that, especially with a teammate on the chopping block? However, it's still plausible. I think a vig shot is our best course of action on him since he isn't readable. WTF?????Eywa - Idk what to say on this dude. His post on palmar early d1 seemed good and original, yet his whole game has been wayyyyyy off from a scum or townie perspective. I don't feel like he's scum even though his vote was in la la land Slightly scummyBoth of these two were afk for most of the parts of the day, dropping in once in a while. They would fit the mold of a weak/afk scum team wherebugsgo - he opposed the Wiggles lynch after saying we should lynch Wiggles. That's very odd. But, I'm not sure if he would so weakly defend his teammate Vivax - His contributions after the kenpachi rule trap by him were very limited. It's possible he just planned to use the kenpachi rule as scum to look like contributing. Scum City BitchWhen considering between the two mentioned above and these two, the following have the most scummy reactions to the Wiggles lynch, especially when based on the fact that the scum team must be either weak or afk when the momentum on wiggles started. iamperfection- PLEASE REREAD MY CASE ON HIM. PLEASE. I looked through the thread again. He came off just as, if not more, scummy. + Show Spoiler +Here's the bit I needed to add on his reaction to Wiggles + Show Spoiler +On December 20 2012 09:00 iamperfection wrote:
@palmar
What do you know about wiggles meta im trying to figure out if he is just stupid or if he is mafia.
I said when i saw it his post regarding Eywa at the time was the dumbest thing i had ever seen but do you know anything about his meta. is he prone to this stuff with regards to his alignment?
Why so trusting of Palmar's meta reads on d1 with only a slight town read on him? On December 20 2012 08:53 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 07:43 Palmar wrote:On December 20 2012 07:16 iamperfection wrote:
hey palmar when you do that list thing where give your reads and dont give any reasons for what your thinking your sucm.
you listed debars as leaning scum and haven't even mentioned a single reason why or mentioned him at all for that matter.
What say you to that? Hello. Are you not reading the thread? Every single read I've made I've made at least a passing comment towards. You've asked about debears, and here is where I picked up something I didn't like from him: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17290209I think every person not in the "not read yet" I've either interacted with or posted about for the thread to see. What are you looking for? Also could you give your opinion on the Zelblade and Wiggles lynches we're discussing now. yeah i missed that one. When palmar is scum he gives 0 reasoning in his reads. Its possible hes grown out of that but i will lean slightly town for him since hes been active and engaged. But i will have my eye on you palmar i hold you in very high regard. asks open ended questions but doesn't make any kind of read himself On December 21 2012 00:32 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 04:28 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Eywa, I like you style, screw the haters. One question though: You make this post: On December 19 2012 23:51 Eywa- wrote:
I would like to examine the current situation and weigh in on mathematics. Generally speaking, there is a 75% or higher chance that if we kill someone on the first day that we will end up in a worse predicament than we currently are. I understand that our streets have been taken over by scum at night, but fear is not a reason to lose all our civil rights and obligations. As a productive member of society and an established citizen of this town, I plead that we take it easy today and allow our local police force to run their investigations before we strike. Saying that you'd like us to consider going for a no-lynch on Day 1 and just waiting for Day 2, so that we can possibly get a check in, or at the very least have something to talk about. Later, you come in with your analysis of Palmar, which is cool that you made it, but after re-reading, one thing that stuck out to me was that a majority of the posts and behaviour of Palmar that you draw on comes from before you made your no-lynch post. In-between your no-lynch post and your analysis, you were called out by a couple players for not commenting on the game (which I disagree with, but whatever). So, the analysis came after that. So, my question to you, is when did you become suspicious of Palmar? The timing of the post combined with the posts you draw from don't really fit when put into the context of your no-lynch post. You ask to no-lynch, then later you make a post saying Palmar is scum, which is fine, because you can change your mind, but your analysis is all based on stuff Palmar did before your no-lynch post, so if you found it to be so scummy, why didn't it strike you before? So, to me, it looks like you made your no-lynch post, got shut down, then went back and looked for someone to make a case on. What gives? well a lot of people have been getting worked up about this post. Yes its stupid but is it something a town wiggles could say? Pushes for my lynch pretty hard >>>>> disappears, even though he is so convinced I'm scum On December 21 2012 01:28 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 01:24 debears wrote:On December 21 2012 01:22 iamperfection wrote:On December 21 2012 01:21 debears wrote:On December 21 2012 01:18 iamperfection wrote:On December 21 2012 01:15 debears wrote:
Iamp you should really read my toad case and my meta again.
1) my main problem with toad was his vote on wbg when he didn't vote me. His plsts about me seemed toc indicate that he believed I was showing strong mafia motivation in my one pos of "I did thag once". His reasoning for voting wbg was weak compared to his reasoning on me. Yet he didn't vote me
Add that with bim being unreasonable and wasting my time js scum oriented
2) I tunnel when I think I've found scum. Figure it out. You use one fucking game for your meta read? You're fu of shit
Also, did you forget that I tunneled the shit out of hapa and hopeless that game d1?
3)
3) I can't provide more content on someone (stutters) when they hardly post
4) you say I'm not interacting with the thread. That's a fucking lie. I interact plenty when I have time and other people are on. All last night the only person who showed was toad. Yamato came when I was getting off.
5) you say my activity is different. Have you even considered that its near fucking christmas??????????? Explain to me how its solely explained by scum motivation because its not
In fact, in mario mini, I disappeared for half of day one for activity
So iamp, you are
1) blatantly misrepresenting what I am doing in threae
2) arent rearing my cases
3) didn't actually look up my meta. 1 game =\= meta
4) misrepresenting my meta in the one game you did use
You are scum
##Unvote
##vote iamp
3) yeah ok buddy go do scum hunting if your town. You are not hunting scum and havent done it the entire game. You gave no reason for why im scum. Thats a great response. If your case is so good you should be hammering me. Your response "go scumhunt because yiu haven't" is bullshit. I am scumhunting. You know you are wrong and you can't refute my case. I will not allow you to misrepresent my meta scum lol what case Show me how 1) me tunneling someone is solely aligned with my scum games 2) how my drop in activity on day is solely aligned to my scum games. Its not at all. In fact its the oppsosite You can't provide those, and you don't want to. Because you are scum and you are wrong whatever dude thats not my case and clearly you haven't read it. Sure you tunnel sometimes but you push those tunnels and your at all time open to other possiblities. Your straight up omgus of is you claiming scum i believe. vote this kid On December 21 2012 01:38 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 01:34 debears wrote:
Iamp is scum his case is a total misrepresentation of my play.
I will not stand for thi shit. Ill go over it in more detail when I'm back home later today by the way when you came back you tunneled me and shat up with toad once again. Made a passing comment on a couple others and gave no scum motivation behind anyone's actions. Your scum debars. im sorry. You just have to accept it. Why wasn't he there to push the lynch for me if he was so certain I was scum and he wasn't convinced Wiggles was? In fact, he said he didn't know what to think of Wiggles, other than Wiggles is stupid. On December 21 2012 00:32 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 04:28 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Eywa, I like you style, screw the haters. One question though: You make this post: On December 19 2012 23:51 Eywa- wrote:
I would like to examine the current situation and weigh in on mathematics. Generally speaking, there is a 75% or higher chance that if we kill someone on the first day that we will end up in a worse predicament than we currently are. I understand that our streets have been taken over by scum at night, but fear is not a reason to lose all our civil rights and obligations. As a productive member of society and an established citizen of this town, I plead that we take it easy today and allow our local police force to run their investigations before we strike. Saying that you'd like us to consider going for a no-lynch on Day 1 and just waiting for Day 2, so that we can possibly get a check in, or at the very least have something to talk about. Later, you come in with your analysis of Palmar, which is cool that you made it, but after re-reading, one thing that stuck out to me was that a majority of the posts and behaviour of Palmar that you draw on comes from before you made your no-lynch post. In-between your no-lynch post and your analysis, you were called out by a couple players for not commenting on the game (which I disagree with, but whatever). So, the analysis came after that. So, my question to you, is when did you become suspicious of Palmar? The timing of the post combined with the posts you draw from don't really fit when put into the context of your no-lynch post. You ask to no-lynch, then later you make a post saying Palmar is scum, which is fine, because you can change your mind, but your analysis is all based on stuff Palmar did before your no-lynch post, so if you found it to be so scummy, why didn't it strike you before? So, to me, it looks like you made your no-lynch post, got shut down, then went back and looked for someone to make a case on. What gives? well a lot of people have been getting worked up about this post. Yes its stupid but is it something a town wiggles could say? On December 21 2012 01:00 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 00:58 Palmar wrote:
Clearly he's making more effort than Wiggles though, amirite iamperf? i know more about debars than i know wiggles. Wiggles looks like he is just being super stupid to me. i don't know what to think of him Alright, let's go over this scenario: You are town iamp. You can 1) Try your hardest to get your certain scumread lynched 2) go with a lynch on someone you aren't sure about Which do you do? Number 1) What did Iamp do? Number 2) Iamp disappeared (shown in spoiler below). He did not stay around and push his scumread that he was certain about over a read that he was unsure about. That is not a townie mindset set at all+ Show Spoiler +On December 21 2012 01:42 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 01:34 debears wrote:
Iamp is scum his case is a total misrepresentation of my play.
I will not stand for thi shit. Ill go over it in more detail when I'm back home later today is yamato scum to because he agrees with me. maybe everyone who accuses debars is scum whatever dude you gone full retard. On December 21 2012 04:57 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 04:35 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Also, are people actually planning on being around before the lynch, or can I look forward to talking to myself for 5 hours? im always around lynch time. which if someone could covert to est i would appreciate. On December 21 2012 07:32 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 07:29 debears wrote:On December 21 2012 06:37 Toadesstern wrote:
Noone's shooting Zelblade.
If we have a vig that vig shoots debears 100%. Anything else and I'll slap people postgame. You never shoot an active, out in the spotlight player that you can make a read off of as a vig You shoot unreadables And you think I'm town and you want me shot You and iamp are scum just stop Was Iamp around during critical lynch time to push his lynch on his certain scumread? No. Did he even bother to make a read on Wiggles or contribute to the wiggles' lynch all day 1? No. He is scum Waited so long to vote after saying multiple times Wiggles was scummy. Waited for others to vote then immediately voted Let me show you the cadence of the votes right before Morb + Show Spoiler +On December 21 2012 02:36 Toadesstern wrote:From OP: Show nested quote +This game will use a simple plurality lynch. Whoever has the most votes at the end of the day will be lynched. In the event of a tie, the person to reach that number of votes first will be lynched. So we don't need to have 50%+ but yeah getting a bunch of votes on the same guy is still what we want to do to make it hard to manipulate things. That being said I'm most likely going to vote Wiggles today and trust in Palmar. Yes it's a weird statement and I get that most people will probably consider it a scummy statement but I think that's what is best for today. I said that I'm not sure about Palmar earlier but he looks better than Wiggles and WBG and the only VET other than those 3 left in this game is me :p And well my town game isn't known for being good but mostly for being erratic resultwise. I either stomp mafias and get 70-90% mafia reads correct by the end of d1/d2 or d3 the latest like I did in L, WoF, that abomination of a game that had a shitton of players in it where I killed half of the mafias that ended up dead myself or the last time I played with WBG when he was mafia... don't remember the name OR I'm completly retarded, hurting town like I'm mafias MVP by shooting 3 townies as the Joker in BC's game, as the mason in whatever the name of that was and so on. There's really nothing inbetween. I'm either going to be a hero, a shining beacon of towns mafiahunting abilities or a total disaster. I'd rather see which one it is before I lead a lynch on d1 this time around :p sooooo, long story short: ##unvote
##vote WigglesIn Palmar we trust! On December 21 2012 03:02 sciberbia wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 02:17 yamato77 wrote:
PSA: All town members need to make a post very soon stating where they stand on who is going to be lynched. Your options seem to be Bugs, Wiggles, Debears, and Zelblade, looking at the vote counts and recent behavior. We need to make a consolidation effort. Get some thoughts out there and discuss. bugsI'm not interested in lynching bugs today. I haven't spent a lot of time trying to read him, but basically I just don't see how anything he's done is definitively indicative of him being scum bugs as opposed to town bugs. zelbladeI'm leaning scum on zelblade, but I'm not as confident on him as I am on debears or Wiggles. I agree with bugs that his post about eywa is scummy, but I feel like there is more overall evidence against debears and Wiggles, each of whom have several posts which I think are scummy. I want to see more from zelblade. debearsI think debears would be a good lynch today and I think there's a reasonably good chance that he'd flip scum. I already detailed why I'm suspicious of him, and I agree with some of iamperfection's case, namely the part about tunneling Toad. @iamperfection About "not being engaged" I think this is a better reason to lynch Wiggles than to lynch debears. Maybe debears doesn't have 10 pages in his filter, but he has been really pushing hard on Toad and now you. I disagree with his conclusions, but I can at least see the possible town motivation for what he's been doing (if he strongly feels that Toad and you are scum). WigglesI think Wiggles is most likely to flip scum. I see a lot more scum motivation than town motivation for his post about Eywa and huge delay before giving scumreads. Also, as pointed about by yamato, it is convenient that his top scumread turns out to be zelblade. I don't like all the posts he has made this game where he pushes no reads whatsoever. He spends a lot of time in the beginning of the game goofing around, in the middle of the day unproductively bantering about people, and toward the end of the day talking about why "Palmar can't be trusted". Overall, debears does a better job convincing me that he is actually trying to find scum. I think you guys should all look at Wiggles's filter, and see how little scumhunting he's done this game. I think he's our best lynch, and I think he's more likely to flip scum than not. Please strongly consider voting him with me. ##Vote Mr. Wiggles On December 21 2012 03:12 Morbidius wrote:
I'm way more confident in a wiggles lynch right now his posts have been very scummy while my suspicion over my other reads have weakened. He has been shooting accusations at everyone and hoping one of them works. Also his ''case'' on palmar is the dumbest thing i've read so far.
##unvote
##vote Mr. Wiggles Look at the timestamps. Those three votes are made one after the other http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17303299Now, look at the rest of Morb's filter. He says multiple times that he finds Wiggles scummy, yet he doesn't want to vote Wiggles until everyone else does. And when they do, he does it in a snap reactionOn December 21 2012 01:21 Morbidius wrote:
Vote count please?
I got a slightly scum vibe from Wiggles and i do think a day 1 lynch is better than no lynch. Morb fits the mold of a scum too weak to fight the lynch. He agreed that Wiggle's looked scummy most of the day, yet he didn't put his vote where his posts were until 4 others did so. He also did it immediately after. That is scummy as shit
is pretty important.
it's the last read of Toad that debears posted. If he states that Toad is town, then that means he doesn't have an intention of pushing him/lynching him the next day.
Imagine if debears is scum. Then, he's going to try to shoot someone who is not likely to get protected and at the same time is mostly agreed-upon to be town. That person was easily Toad, since Palmar was more likely to be protected. My theory of debears being town because he wouldn't push then kill the same guy is now total shit because I completely forgot the fact that he made this post.
This makes sense in the context of the rest of his posts. I never found the rest of anything he was saying to be convincingly town-like, and I automatically put him at "leaning town" because of his activity (and not "probable town" because he reacted really weirdly to vivax's VT claim-kenpachi rule)
Now when I notice that he's literally the only person shedding doubt on my RB claim, and also that he had an aversion to lynching Wiggles AND an aversion to lynching stutters, it makes more sense that he is scum rather than town.
This also conveniently makes my earlier read on eywa make more sense. Early on I had him as town,
So, yeah, I'm dumb, I think debears is scum.
I'm still more confident in stutters,
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Wait so make all that in your post on me, yet you are still more confident in stutters?
The fuck?
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On December 23 2012 05:55 wherebugsgo wrote:actually, fuck. I just realized I made a pretty big mistake. this post: Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 15:53 debears wrote:Here are my pretty certain reads. One thing that I want to stress is how easily the Wiggles lynch came about. What does this tell us about the characteristics of the mafia? They are weak and unable to fight, or they were not around to fight the lynch. Townie Town Townyamato77
Palmar Both were the first two to vote wiggles. Both pushed for his lynch. Likely TownToadesstern - looking back at his posts, especially his vote post, he rings town. There's some possibility for scum, but he was the third to vote Wiggles. I feel he could have easily pushed for my mislynch with all the shit that was being believed in the thread Slight TownScribs - His posting was focused, with a townie mindset. His late vote (4th in the order) on Wiggles is alarming though after he kept saying that Wiggles was the scummiest looking Nullzelblade - didn't vote. Got modkilled. I wouldn't worry too much about him right now with Prom taking over. No motivation from either side for his d1, especially the part of not voting, which I would say is slightly more town indicative. Stutters695 - he was 7th to vote for Wiggles. His explanation : avoid a modkill. I feel that this is a classic case of too scummy to be scum. Why on earth would scum say that and draw attention to themselves like that, especially with a teammate on the chopping block? However, it's still plausible. I think a vig shot is our best course of action on him since he isn't readable. WTF?????Eywa - Idk what to say on this dude. His post on palmar early d1 seemed good and original, yet his whole game has been wayyyyyy off from a scum or townie perspective. I don't feel like he's scum even though his vote was in la la land Slightly scummyBoth of these two were afk for most of the parts of the day, dropping in once in a while. They would fit the mold of a weak/afk scum team wherebugsgo - he opposed the Wiggles lynch after saying we should lynch Wiggles. That's very odd. But, I'm not sure if he would so weakly defend his teammate Vivax - His contributions after the kenpachi rule trap by him were very limited. It's possible he just planned to use the kenpachi rule as scum to look like contributing. Scum City BitchWhen considering between the two mentioned above and these two, the following have the most scummy reactions to the Wiggles lynch, especially when based on the fact that the scum team must be either weak or afk when the momentum on wiggles started. iamperfection- PLEASE REREAD MY CASE ON HIM. PLEASE. I looked through the thread again. He came off just as, if not more, scummy. + Show Spoiler +Here's the bit I needed to add on his reaction to Wiggles + Show Spoiler +On December 20 2012 09:00 iamperfection wrote:
@palmar
What do you know about wiggles meta im trying to figure out if he is just stupid or if he is mafia.
I said when i saw it his post regarding Eywa at the time was the dumbest thing i had ever seen but do you know anything about his meta. is he prone to this stuff with regards to his alignment?
Why so trusting of Palmar's meta reads on d1 with only a slight town read on him? On December 20 2012 08:53 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 07:43 Palmar wrote:On December 20 2012 07:16 iamperfection wrote:
hey palmar when you do that list thing where give your reads and dont give any reasons for what your thinking your sucm.
you listed debars as leaning scum and haven't even mentioned a single reason why or mentioned him at all for that matter.
What say you to that? Hello. Are you not reading the thread? Every single read I've made I've made at least a passing comment towards. You've asked about debears, and here is where I picked up something I didn't like from him: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17290209I think every person not in the "not read yet" I've either interacted with or posted about for the thread to see. What are you looking for? Also could you give your opinion on the Zelblade and Wiggles lynches we're discussing now. yeah i missed that one. When palmar is scum he gives 0 reasoning in his reads. Its possible hes grown out of that but i will lean slightly town for him since hes been active and engaged. But i will have my eye on you palmar i hold you in very high regard. asks open ended questions but doesn't make any kind of read himself On December 21 2012 00:32 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 04:28 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Eywa, I like you style, screw the haters. One question though: You make this post: On December 19 2012 23:51 Eywa- wrote:
I would like to examine the current situation and weigh in on mathematics. Generally speaking, there is a 75% or higher chance that if we kill someone on the first day that we will end up in a worse predicament than we currently are. I understand that our streets have been taken over by scum at night, but fear is not a reason to lose all our civil rights and obligations. As a productive member of society and an established citizen of this town, I plead that we take it easy today and allow our local police force to run their investigations before we strike. Saying that you'd like us to consider going for a no-lynch on Day 1 and just waiting for Day 2, so that we can possibly get a check in, or at the very least have something to talk about. Later, you come in with your analysis of Palmar, which is cool that you made it, but after re-reading, one thing that stuck out to me was that a majority of the posts and behaviour of Palmar that you draw on comes from before you made your no-lynch post. In-between your no-lynch post and your analysis, you were called out by a couple players for not commenting on the game (which I disagree with, but whatever). So, the analysis came after that. So, my question to you, is when did you become suspicious of Palmar? The timing of the post combined with the posts you draw from don't really fit when put into the context of your no-lynch post. You ask to no-lynch, then later you make a post saying Palmar is scum, which is fine, because you can change your mind, but your analysis is all based on stuff Palmar did before your no-lynch post, so if you found it to be so scummy, why didn't it strike you before? So, to me, it looks like you made your no-lynch post, got shut down, then went back and looked for someone to make a case on. What gives? well a lot of people have been getting worked up about this post. Yes its stupid but is it something a town wiggles could say? Pushes for my lynch pretty hard >>>>> disappears, even though he is so convinced I'm scum On December 21 2012 01:28 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 01:24 debears wrote:On December 21 2012 01:22 iamperfection wrote:On December 21 2012 01:21 debears wrote:On December 21 2012 01:18 iamperfection wrote:On December 21 2012 01:15 debears wrote:
Iamp you should really read my toad case and my meta again.
1) my main problem with toad was his vote on wbg when he didn't vote me. His plsts about me seemed toc indicate that he believed I was showing strong mafia motivation in my one pos of "I did thag once". His reasoning for voting wbg was weak compared to his reasoning on me. Yet he didn't vote me
Add that with bim being unreasonable and wasting my time js scum oriented
2) I tunnel when I think I've found scum. Figure it out. You use one fucking game for your meta read? You're fu of shit
Also, did you forget that I tunneled the shit out of hapa and hopeless that game d1?
3)
3) I can't provide more content on someone (stutters) when they hardly post
4) you say I'm not interacting with the thread. That's a fucking lie. I interact plenty when I have time and other people are on. All last night the only person who showed was toad. Yamato came when I was getting off.
5) you say my activity is different. Have you even considered that its near fucking christmas??????????? Explain to me how its solely explained by scum motivation because its not
In fact, in mario mini, I disappeared for half of day one for activity
So iamp, you are
1) blatantly misrepresenting what I am doing in threae
2) arent rearing my cases
3) didn't actually look up my meta. 1 game =\= meta
4) misrepresenting my meta in the one game you did use
You are scum
##Unvote
##vote iamp
3) yeah ok buddy go do scum hunting if your town. You are not hunting scum and havent done it the entire game. You gave no reason for why im scum. Thats a great response. If your case is so good you should be hammering me. Your response "go scumhunt because yiu haven't" is bullshit. I am scumhunting. You know you are wrong and you can't refute my case. I will not allow you to misrepresent my meta scum lol what case Show me how 1) me tunneling someone is solely aligned with my scum games 2) how my drop in activity on day is solely aligned to my scum games. Its not at all. In fact its the oppsosite You can't provide those, and you don't want to. Because you are scum and you are wrong whatever dude thats not my case and clearly you haven't read it. Sure you tunnel sometimes but you push those tunnels and your at all time open to other possiblities. Your straight up omgus of is you claiming scum i believe. vote this kid On December 21 2012 01:38 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 01:34 debears wrote:
Iamp is scum his case is a total misrepresentation of my play.
I will not stand for thi shit. Ill go over it in more detail when I'm back home later today by the way when you came back you tunneled me and shat up with toad once again. Made a passing comment on a couple others and gave no scum motivation behind anyone's actions. Your scum debars. im sorry. You just have to accept it. Why wasn't he there to push the lynch for me if he was so certain I was scum and he wasn't convinced Wiggles was? In fact, he said he didn't know what to think of Wiggles, other than Wiggles is stupid. On December 21 2012 00:32 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 04:28 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Eywa, I like you style, screw the haters. One question though: You make this post: On December 19 2012 23:51 Eywa- wrote:
I would like to examine the current situation and weigh in on mathematics. Generally speaking, there is a 75% or higher chance that if we kill someone on the first day that we will end up in a worse predicament than we currently are. I understand that our streets have been taken over by scum at night, but fear is not a reason to lose all our civil rights and obligations. As a productive member of society and an established citizen of this town, I plead that we take it easy today and allow our local police force to run their investigations before we strike. Saying that you'd like us to consider going for a no-lynch on Day 1 and just waiting for Day 2, so that we can possibly get a check in, or at the very least have something to talk about. Later, you come in with your analysis of Palmar, which is cool that you made it, but after re-reading, one thing that stuck out to me was that a majority of the posts and behaviour of Palmar that you draw on comes from before you made your no-lynch post. In-between your no-lynch post and your analysis, you were called out by a couple players for not commenting on the game (which I disagree with, but whatever). So, the analysis came after that. So, my question to you, is when did you become suspicious of Palmar? The timing of the post combined with the posts you draw from don't really fit when put into the context of your no-lynch post. You ask to no-lynch, then later you make a post saying Palmar is scum, which is fine, because you can change your mind, but your analysis is all based on stuff Palmar did before your no-lynch post, so if you found it to be so scummy, why didn't it strike you before? So, to me, it looks like you made your no-lynch post, got shut down, then went back and looked for someone to make a case on. What gives? well a lot of people have been getting worked up about this post. Yes its stupid but is it something a town wiggles could say? On December 21 2012 01:00 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 00:58 Palmar wrote:
Clearly he's making more effort than Wiggles though, amirite iamperf? i know more about debars than i know wiggles. Wiggles looks like he is just being super stupid to me. i don't know what to think of him Alright, let's go over this scenario: You are town iamp. You can 1) Try your hardest to get your certain scumread lynched 2) go with a lynch on someone you aren't sure about Which do you do? Number 1) What did Iamp do? Number 2) Iamp disappeared (shown in spoiler below). He did not stay around and push his scumread that he was certain about over a read that he was unsure about. That is not a townie mindset set at all+ Show Spoiler +On December 21 2012 01:42 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 01:34 debears wrote:
Iamp is scum his case is a total misrepresentation of my play.
I will not stand for thi shit. Ill go over it in more detail when I'm back home later today is yamato scum to because he agrees with me. maybe everyone who accuses debars is scum whatever dude you gone full retard. On December 21 2012 04:57 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 04:35 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Also, are people actually planning on being around before the lynch, or can I look forward to talking to myself for 5 hours? im always around lynch time. which if someone could covert to est i would appreciate. On December 21 2012 07:32 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 07:29 debears wrote:On December 21 2012 06:37 Toadesstern wrote:
Noone's shooting Zelblade.
If we have a vig that vig shoots debears 100%. Anything else and I'll slap people postgame. You never shoot an active, out in the spotlight player that you can make a read off of as a vig You shoot unreadables And you think I'm town and you want me shot You and iamp are scum just stop Was Iamp around during critical lynch time to push his lynch on his certain scumread? No. Did he even bother to make a read on Wiggles or contribute to the wiggles' lynch all day 1? No. He is scum Waited so long to vote after saying multiple times Wiggles was scummy. Waited for others to vote then immediately voted Let me show you the cadence of the votes right before Morb + Show Spoiler +On December 21 2012 02:36 Toadesstern wrote:From OP: Show nested quote +This game will use a simple plurality lynch. Whoever has the most votes at the end of the day will be lynched. In the event of a tie, the person to reach that number of votes first will be lynched. So we don't need to have 50%+ but yeah getting a bunch of votes on the same guy is still what we want to do to make it hard to manipulate things. That being said I'm most likely going to vote Wiggles today and trust in Palmar. Yes it's a weird statement and I get that most people will probably consider it a scummy statement but I think that's what is best for today. I said that I'm not sure about Palmar earlier but he looks better than Wiggles and WBG and the only VET other than those 3 left in this game is me :p And well my town game isn't known for being good but mostly for being erratic resultwise. I either stomp mafias and get 70-90% mafia reads correct by the end of d1/d2 or d3 the latest like I did in L, WoF, that abomination of a game that had a shitton of players in it where I killed half of the mafias that ended up dead myself or the last time I played with WBG when he was mafia... don't remember the name OR I'm completly retarded, hurting town like I'm mafias MVP by shooting 3 townies as the Joker in BC's game, as the mason in whatever the name of that was and so on. There's really nothing inbetween. I'm either going to be a hero, a shining beacon of towns mafiahunting abilities or a total disaster. I'd rather see which one it is before I lead a lynch on d1 this time around :p sooooo, long story short: ##unvote
##vote WigglesIn Palmar we trust! On December 21 2012 03:02 sciberbia wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 02:17 yamato77 wrote:
PSA: All town members need to make a post very soon stating where they stand on who is going to be lynched. Your options seem to be Bugs, Wiggles, Debears, and Zelblade, looking at the vote counts and recent behavior. We need to make a consolidation effort. Get some thoughts out there and discuss. bugsI'm not interested in lynching bugs today. I haven't spent a lot of time trying to read him, but basically I just don't see how anything he's done is definitively indicative of him being scum bugs as opposed to town bugs. zelbladeI'm leaning scum on zelblade, but I'm not as confident on him as I am on debears or Wiggles. I agree with bugs that his post about eywa is scummy, but I feel like there is more overall evidence against debears and Wiggles, each of whom have several posts which I think are scummy. I want to see more from zelblade. debearsI think debears would be a good lynch today and I think there's a reasonably good chance that he'd flip scum. I already detailed why I'm suspicious of him, and I agree with some of iamperfection's case, namely the part about tunneling Toad. @iamperfection About "not being engaged" I think this is a better reason to lynch Wiggles than to lynch debears. Maybe debears doesn't have 10 pages in his filter, but he has been really pushing hard on Toad and now you. I disagree with his conclusions, but I can at least see the possible town motivation for what he's been doing (if he strongly feels that Toad and you are scum). WigglesI think Wiggles is most likely to flip scum. I see a lot more scum motivation than town motivation for his post about Eywa and huge delay before giving scumreads. Also, as pointed about by yamato, it is convenient that his top scumread turns out to be zelblade. I don't like all the posts he has made this game where he pushes no reads whatsoever. He spends a lot of time in the beginning of the game goofing around, in the middle of the day unproductively bantering about people, and toward the end of the day talking about why "Palmar can't be trusted". Overall, debears does a better job convincing me that he is actually trying to find scum. I think you guys should all look at Wiggles's filter, and see how little scumhunting he's done this game. I think he's our best lynch, and I think he's more likely to flip scum than not. Please strongly consider voting him with me. ##Vote Mr. Wiggles On December 21 2012 03:12 Morbidius wrote:
I'm way more confident in a wiggles lynch right now his posts have been very scummy while my suspicion over my other reads have weakened. He has been shooting accusations at everyone and hoping one of them works. Also his ''case'' on palmar is the dumbest thing i've read so far.
##unvote
##vote Mr. Wiggles Look at the timestamps. Those three votes are made one after the other http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17303299Now, look at the rest of Morb's filter. He says multiple times that he finds Wiggles scummy, yet he doesn't want to vote Wiggles until everyone else does. And when they do, he does it in a snap reactionOn December 21 2012 01:21 Morbidius wrote:
Vote count please?
I got a slightly scum vibe from Wiggles and i do think a day 1 lynch is better than no lynch. Morb fits the mold of a scum too weak to fight the lynch. He agreed that Wiggle's looked scummy most of the day, yet he didn't put his vote where his posts were until 4 others did so. He also did it immediately after. That is scummy as shit is pretty important. it's the last read of Toad that debears posted. If he states that Toad is town, then that means he doesn't have an intention of pushing him/lynching him the next day. Imagine if debears is scum. Then, he's going to try to shoot someone who is not likely to get protected and at the same time is mostly agreed-upon to be town. That person was easily Toad, since Palmar was more likely to be protected. My theory of debears being town because he wouldn't push then kill the same guy is now total shit because I completely forgot the fact that he made this post. This makes sense in the context of the rest of his posts. I never found the rest of anything he was saying to be convincingly town-like, and I automatically put him at "leaning town" because of his activity (and not "probable town" because he reacted really weirdly to vivax's VT claim-kenpachi rule) Now when I notice that he's literally the only person shedding doubt on my RB claim, and also that he had an aversion to lynching Wiggles AND an aversion to lynching stutters, it makes more sense that he is scum rather than town. This also conveniently makes my earlier read on eywa make more sense. Early on I had him as town, So, yeah, I'm dumb, I think debears is scum. I'm still more confident in stutters,
Hey WBG occam's razor.
I'm town and I looked over d1 again and I found Toad town.
Oh look I'm using the same defense that you tried to use.
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no, actually.
Earlier I was considering you were town in face of everything else that suggested you were scum for the singular reason that I didn't believe you would attack someone and then kill them as scum.
Turns out I was wrong and you didn't actually attack him at the time it was relevant, so that idea is thrown out the window. Simplest conclusion when you find someone scummy with no drawbacks...is to call them scum.
I'm more confident in stutters simply because he's less active.
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One thing in bugs's spreadsheet, the fact that Toad found the need to comment on vivax's future creditability is actually a thought I had myself, but I never quite thought Toad was scum, just kept him kinda null-ish mostly because of that comment.
I guess we just lynch debears then.
##Unvote Wherebugsgo
##Vote debears
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Also vivax might be a good lynch.
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Damnit guys
Hi guys I'm the vigilante
Due to the extensive lurking day 1, I decided to hold on to my bullet for tonight.
Unfortunately, today hasn't brought much fruit in terms of lurkers posting.
For that reason, I would like to lynch a lurker today and get rid of the last lurker with my bullet (if Eywa gets modkilled). That leaves us in a prime position to finish the game quickly.
Now, for those of you who think I'm scum.
Why is it a good idea to let me try to prove my worth, even if you don't believe me?
Scum will have to RB me tonight to make it so I can't prove my claim.
What does that do? It let's morb possibly get another night check off and a possible medic go unblocked again and protect morb or palmar or iamp
This claim is also the reason why I said I wasn't getting lynched today.
I'm sorry I've had such a shitty game so far guys. Unfortunately, I had to show my hand.
I think it would be wise to discuss who I should shoot.
As I see it right now:
Town: Palmar, Yamato, scribs, Morb, Iamp, Me
We have 6 pretty much confirmed town. The sooner we can eliminate the lurkers, the better.
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I don't believe that claim. Lynch him.
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EPT
