EPT/in
Chrono Trigger Mafia
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
/in | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 20 2012 07:22 CaveJohnson wrote: ##Attack with Wood Sword Victory - Find 200G Equip: Bronze helm Time to give a real mugging! ##Attack with Masamune Victory - 20000G I don't mess around  | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
| ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 20 2012 07:38 CaveJohnson wrote: Not so fast. ##Slurp kiss Well played. ##Thanks hero host for putting this together so quickly. ##Stays at an inn. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
But one quick thought as I come up to speed: obvious inexperienced townie >>>>>> than hard-to-read vet. Since voting in a mafia will work against us, this should be a no-brainer. And besides, said townie would have the opinions of the rest of town to go off of to choose their party. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 21 2012 12:16 Promethelax wrote: Clarity, i would agree with you if Hapa's reaction to Kier's questions had been what I expect from a town Hapa but it wasn't. My short list is a little bit shorter. Why would you vote anyone you don't have a town read on? Goodkarma: have you played any games since our Newbie Mini Misfortune? Hapa: what kind of player would get your vote? Not Kier, Not Marv...who? Keir: how many scum does it take to sabotage a mission? My guess is that even a single one will fuck us so a scum Marv would not need to pick any scummers. Yes. I had much better games after that. I hope there's no hard feelings for that particular game, as I played scum about as terribly as I possibly could clamming up when really saying just about anything would have prevented my early lynch. My other two games: In NMM XXIV: The hero that saved the town from a 5-3 MYLO to win the game. In LVII: Mafia suicide bomber. Could have played better but mafia got the win anyway. Rockband mini: I replaced out day one as scum. Never actually checked to see how it ended. Who I would nominate (if not myself): As of right now, my support for a party leader (besides myself) would be sandroba. Sandroba seems to be adopting a solid strategy at present. I wholeheartedly agree with going with the most townie individuals, even if they are inexperienced. We don't know how the minigames are going to work yet, but we do know with 100% certainty that scum will count against their success. In a game where we don't lynch, all we can do is establish who is actually town. It is absolutely ridiculous to nominate people who have both strong scum and town games and are hard to read day one (thinking of Marv). I also completely agree with the suggestion that's been brought up that parties be suggested by those who are hoping to be nominated up-front. This is especially important if we are to nominate a townie who isn't as experienced. Goodkarma for President: As your leader, I will do my best to further the policy of choosing the most obvious townies as detailed above. Along those lines, I would elect to choose both sandroba and promethelax for my party. The third is still tentative, as the game has only been going for a short time. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 21 2012 13:11 Hapahauli wrote: Why are you pre-determining who to include in your party right now? Certainly you couldn't have THAT strong of a town read on the both of them. Obviously, said party members could change. In a normal game, we discuss in detail our strong scum reads to pressure and determine who to lynch. This mechanic simply does not exist this game. Determining who is town is far more important than determining who is scum when selecting parties. I'm nominating those I currently have a town read on who I feel would contribute best to success for the minigame or whatever other thing it is our host has planned for us. And why now?: I would rather have an idea who it is that's going to be coming along upfront, wouldn't you? Think of them as my three vice presidential nominees. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 21 2012 13:17 iamperfection wrote: Why would you suggest prom he plays very good regardless of alignment from what i remember. I must admit that I haven't seen Prox's play since my newbie days. This is based far more on what I've seen in-game than from any "meta-read." I'm open to hearing any case you might have on his scumminess, but right now I see him as a town read. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 21 2012 13:36 Hopeless1der wrote: Greetings all. You'll notice that we're currently in 600 AD Guardia. You're also playing a themed game hosted by none other than Greymist. Please keep that in mind. (Hi Mementoss, you're cool too). Basic vote mechanics for this game seem to boil down to -identify town -vote town to lead the party -Profit -Kill Mafia/Lavos -More Profit What are people's thoughts on claiming that their character belongs to the 600 AD era and selecting the leader based on that. (YOU ONLY CLAIM "600 AD") Possibly selecting the entire party from within the era, assuming enough of a pool emerges. I linked Chronopedia above in case anyone feels the need to check it out. ~17ish native characters from 600 AD. I think our hidden numbers are influenced by the current era, and events can have varying degrees of success or failure depending on which specific players (not just town or scum) are in the party. Come play the setup speculation game with me please! No. Setup speculation is for chumps. I'd like to hear your thoughts on who we should choose for a party leader and why. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 21 2012 13:46 Hopeless1der wrote: Choose town. Win events. Kill Lavos. This has already been covered. I don't have any strong townreads yet. So in the meantime, I want to plant some ideas about how the setup works because you can bet your ass its going to matter. Of course it will matter. But talking about how certain deliberately hidden variables could or could not work that are outside our control is a waste of time. The one thing we presently can control is who we choose for our party, and that's where are focus should be. So please stop shitting up the thread advocating setup speculation. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 21 2012 14:27 Dienosore wrote: Look at it this way: I have no idea who any of you are, and none of you know me. Therefore, I can't abuse any preconceived notions or reads you have on me because they just dont exist. If I'm elected the leader, I promise to publicly consider every move before it happens. I will try to do so in such a manner that hopefully leaves no sour taste in anyones mouth. ![[image loading]](http://i49.tinypic.com/2141g6r.png) campaign poster lol If you're intent on becoming leader, your first step is to establish yourself as town. And talking only about yourself isn't going to get you there. I would like to hear about your policies for choosing people for your party, as well as if you were not to be elected which candidate you feel most comfortable about voting for and why. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
| ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 21 2012 14:29 Djodref wrote: I propose myself as a party leader I'm relatively new in these forums but I think I have good instincts to find the scum so I think I would be a nice party leader. If anybody would like to elect me as a party leader, I would like to let you know that I have usually correct reads on new town players. Right off the bat, I would have Clarity and Iamp in my team right now because they are as involved in this game that their usual townie selves. I don't know yet for the third member. Of course, these reads are subject to change but I would pick them if I had to choose right now. This is a much better post than dinosaur guy, but again: Who would you propose as an alternative if you weren't to get elected? We are going to go nowhere if everyone just votes for themselves. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 21 2012 14:12 TheChronicler wrote: It's anti-town to give scum information they can use. You just told scum your town read (assuming you're town). Now scum will value killing your town read higher than they would have. Way to go. This is a bit belated, but: while we give scum information from town reads, this can't be helped in this particular setup. We obviously aren't going to try to select scum in our parties, so anyone who is selected or a serious nominee is automatically going to be a high priority target. This isn't your standard mafia game, so I would recommend you stop treating it as such. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 21 2012 15:04 Keirathi wrote: Man, am I the only person who doesn't want to be party leader? Maybe that sounds scummy because "Keir doesn't want to be held accountable for his choices", but I'm certainly willing to say who I want to be party leader and who I would want in the party. Its just that I don't trust my ability to read people enough to put the final decision into my own hands :o Your opinions are still important  .Incompetent reads are far better than no reads at all. What's your current read on sandroba? | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Are chosen party members kill-immune? If not, what happens if scum kill a party member? | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 21 2012 15:30 Keirathi wrote: We don't even know anything about HOW the scum kills, other than it doesn't follow the traditional "1 KP = 1 dead". We have an HP value, and have no idea how much HP damage the scum can do in a single cycle, how they will do it, or who they can do it to. But we have HP. Scum must be able to remove it somehow. And if we have let's say a small hidden value score lead over scum, it would be important to know if scum can or cannot off people in the party to tip the scales against us. Especially if a medic-type role exists for town. I feel this is a very relevant and answerable question to ask the host. But I must agree with oats that outside of a response from him it's not a good use of our time to discuss further. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 21 2012 16:12 phagga wrote: I like Sandroba's plan, his logic is sound. However, I find it dangerous to derive a town read from it, nothing is stopping scum to put up this plan to get themselfes elected. Why is everyone asking for town reads? I understand that the mechanics are working differently, but everyone just spreading their townreads like the flu will only make it easier for scum to decide who to shoot at night. People like Keirathi and me who have no desire in being elected D1 should not be giving out any townreads, instead we can actually scum hunt in the traditional way and establish ourselfes as town this way. I even think that most candidates should not be throwing out their town reads unless they seem to be a serious candidate (meaning several people have voiced interest in voting that person). The reason we're not doing traditional scumhunting is because we don't have the power to lynch scum. Our time is best used determining who is most likely town, as we're (hopefully) voting for townies as party leader. I've touched on this a few times. Hopefully this is the last time clarification is needed. This game isn't about scumhunting. Rather, it revolves around townhunting. Hope that helps. I see a couple people have questions for me. I'll make a followup post for them within the hour and then I'm calling it a night. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
I suggested that if I am not elected Sandroba is my current alternative pick for party leader. That should say something about my current read on him. But I will briefly recap: His ideas for how to produce a successful town party are ones that I agree with. That others apparently are familiar with his meta, and that he is either a strong town or weak scum player is icing on the cake. That being said, before I would place a vote towards him I would need to know which party members he would choose and why. @phagga: On November 21 2012 15:59 phagga wrote: Some things after finally catching up: -snip- You would vote Sandroba because you think his strategy is solid. His strategy involves taking less known townies on the team and no additional vets, to make it harder for scum to decide who to snipe. Your Strategy however would be to take at least one vet and a well known, albeit newer town player to your team. Why? -snip- I agree with Sandroba insofar as that lesser known players that are obvious townies should be strongly considered. However, at the end of the day, going with your three strongest town reads is going to be optimal for selecting a party. Unfortunately I, like several other players here, have somewhat of a bias at times towards prioritizing players that we have played with before. It could also be said that less experienced players are more likely to post like crap and not distinguish themselves as town than "vets" (look at deino). So there might be some unintentional bias towards vets (which is something I would try to avoid to the best of my ability). To be clear I will definitely be reassessing my read on Prox (as well as Sandroba) before making a finalized Vice Presidential Candidate trifecta. I don't feel it's absolutely necessary that all three chosen members are townie looking newbies. I feel that the chosen members should be closest to 100% confirmed town, and that newbies should not be left out of consideration. Maybe there is a small difference between myself and Sandroba in this area. That's good for my election campaign I suppose... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 21 2012 17:04 Keirathi wrote: Damnit, I was in bed and checked the thread once more from my phone and had to get up to come back and reply to this because of how vehemently I disagree. First: Notice that it says MOST OF THE TIME there won't be a lynch, implying that there will be a traditional lynch at some point (presumably on non-event days). Also: Notice the "If all mafia die." How exactly are mafia ever going to die in this game if all we do is townhunt the whole game? I'm going to guess they aren't going to get punished for being selected into the party (and actually, probably rewarded), so they won't be dying from that. So, that only really leaves 1) lynch whenever that's what we do for the day 2) town vigs shooting the scum and 3) third party having some sort of KP Both 1 and 2 require scumhunting. Also, scumhunting narrows down possible town reads. Basically I 100% disagree with you that the only thing we should be doing is townhunting. This is a good catch. I was under the impression that the party minigames would alter the fate of the game, and be our means for outing scum. It would seem there might also be a traditional component as well. It still, however, doesn't change the fact that whoever we choose it's going to be because we think they're town, and that they will automatically become a high priority for the scum team. We can't be as hesitant to share some town reads + Show Spoiler + (and I'm not suggesting, to be clear, people provide a full list of reads for every player or any other such nonsense) I should reword what I said, then, as follows.: Until such a time where lynching becomes an available option, we should be prioritizing townhunting over scumhunting as we choose our party leader and members. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
. There were a few things you mentioned I would like to briefly touch up on and then I'm really going to bed...On November 21 2012 17:09 Toadesstern wrote: This Keirathi guy is mafia. Not because of what he's saying but because of what he's failing to provide: Reasoning as to why he'd post what he did so far. There's simply no reason to get out here and tell people he's planning to heavily focus on reading one guy. Best case scenario is him being pointless, worst case scenario is him trying to look good by providing "something" while actually being pointless. I'd say we've got someone who's trying to get a cheap backdoor exit early on. That being said I plan on becomming leader d1. Vote for me please :3 I plan on sending people I trust to be town. Especially my townreads are pretty awesome and I have an easy time picking up townreads early on so I'd say this job is the right job for me. That being said I will not send people some kind of "majority" thinks I should send. I will send people I myself consider to be town and nothing else. That probably sounds stupid to those people who are new to this game but that's how these things are going. Don't listen to people telling you they will listen to some majority-decided group they will nominate if they get to be leader. Vote for someone who's willing and comfortable enough to make a decision on his own instead of trying to dodge the responsibility but wants to be leader for whatever reason nonetheless. I know it sounds awesome to have people telling you that your voice will be heard and everyone can hold hands and decide on the group together but that's just meaningless smooth-talk. You've got your vote. You vote for the leader, not more and not less. Everything else is in the hand of the guy in charge. That's how you influence this outcome and it's enough. More than that just makes it way to likely for people to be influenced. I will obviously only vote for someone I trust to be able to get good reads d1 himself in combination with a townread on said guy (duh). Having someone who's just going to roll a dice to determine who's going on the mission is not going to help us and let's face it, there's people who are at face value with rolling a dice, at least on d1. Vote me pretty please! What you're saying here seems perfectly reasonable to me. However, I still feel it's important that you provide your candidates you wish to bring to the party before people make a vote for you. We can't just vote for you because you're a vet that will perform well for us if you're town... On November 21 2012 17:13 Toadesstern wrote: Oh and I forgot: Yeah we need to find someone to send d1 and that's all nice and fine but I don't think it's a good way to keep the talk all focused on only that. Faking townreads as mafias is incredibly easy. Faking mafiareads as mafia is something that takes effort. If we're only going to talk about who we're going to send d1 we're giving mafia an incredibly easy time skating by. I know it feels counterintuitive as clearly the shortterm "goal" is to send a good guy d1 but I think we should try and balance those issues out. After all, the goal in the longrun is to figure people out and we won't be able to do that by playing nice all day long. This is a very interesting point. But keep in mind that since lynching at the very least isn't commonplace, it might be possible for scum to deliberately bus themselves even early to gain some town credit and not get hurt that badly. Like maybe they spend their scumhunting time repeatedly picking on hypothetical scumperson A for half the game until he finally gets lynched. They go out looking townie, and don't have to worry about getting lynched again for a very long time... I'm still not convinced that focusing on lynchings as the primary means for town victory is best in this setup. Also, while faking scumreads on town is the standard task for scum in normal games, I'm thinking that faking townreads on scum as scum is going to be their focus this game. It will be easier for them to "blend in" doing this perhaps, but it should still be possible to find them, especially when a particular event outcome goes poorly. I still see this as the inverse of a normal game, where townreads are the priority. Scumreads may follow based on an unexpected vote.outcome to some extent, but only insofar as knowing whose opinions can be most trusted.for selecting the next party leader. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 21 2012 23:29 Oatsmaster wrote: LOL why would you say that the case is good? Marv, goodkarma, other people who were in this thread a moment ago. I would like your opinons on this case? Clarity has not been very helpful to town thus far, if that's what you were getting at in your case. In a standard game, it would certainly be a bit disconcerting that he has picked easy targets and "safe" conversation points for discussion, but at present I would say this covers the majority of people. In fact, your case ironically is only the third scum case of the game... In this particular game it would seem that people are putting more time presently into determining who their leader should be than determining who's scum. Whether this is right or wrong is a fair point of debate, but as it currently stands Clarity does not stand out to me as scum. I definitely don't like his play to date, but I consider him presently a null read. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 21 2012 22:50 sandroba wrote: I wouldn't mind syllo being leader either and if I win I will give him veto power over the people I choose. I'm fairly certain he is town at this point. I found this particular quote to be upsetting. I understand, on the one hand, if you have a town read on syllo. But I don't understand why you would be willing to go so far as to allow him to veto your picks. If you're not that confident in your choices, you should as well just have him pick for you... Or better yet, let him be party leader. As current "frontrunner" I would like a response from you on this scandal. Are you looking to concede and have syllo run in your stead, or was this merely an assertion that you are super-confident syllo is town? | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 21 2012 23:56 iamperfection wrote: i disagree We act like a normal game hunt the scum that way easier to pick up who is town. Nominate those people for the team. To date there hasn't been that much scumhunting. I've already argued to death with Toad about the approach that should be taken in this game. Let's just agree we should both town and scumhunt and leave it at that... For me, I am going to take a process of elimination type approach for this particular game. That will help me to focus on who is town and why for party selection. Then, by extension, those I can't confirm as town will be my prime scum suspects. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 22 2012 00:07 Clarity_nl wrote: Goodkarma do you still believe we should be focusing on townhunting until there is a possibility to lynch? -snip- At the very least, I believe we should townhunt until we have chosen a party leader. If we argue who is scum, while working towards choosing who is town for our party, I fear we'll get a bit overwhelmed. Scumhunting very well might derail conversations for party selection, and townhunting might derail scumhunting discussions... I am a strong supporter of establishing scum by process of elimination this game for that reason, and this is the approach I plan on taking as I just discussed in my last post. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 22 2012 00:18 Clarity_nl wrote: What do you think about this: We want to consolidate on who to elect rather quickly, or at least narrow the field significantly. Once we've done that everyone but the elected person can go scumhunting, people end up finding town when they scumhunt anyway. As long as the elected person is transparent about his reads and choices, we can simply read his analysis rather than have 20 people make their own. When we've consolidated on someone, by all means let's scumhunt. Regarding the current party leader election: Despite my early support of his election, I would like to see from sandroba more discussion of his likely running mates before I place my vote on him, as well as some discussion on his syllo comment. You can also expect a more detailed discussion of who I would have in my party if I were to be elected when I return early this evening. I propose we move the election field down to two candidates in the near future. I will position myself as the alternative to sandroba, unless if the case arises that a serious contender appears, in which case I will concede to help expedite consolidation. + Show Spoiler + (Or live on as the third party candidate that no one had better vote for. Take your pick.) | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
So... It would seem that syllo has yet to make any additional moves, and sandoba, while back, hasn't really made that much of an additional comment on his party he's taking with him. Firstly, sandroba has now made it clear that he strongly believes syllo to be town. I do not have the "meta" read priveleges that he does, and as such, cannot make this read. Yet, at this point I would go so far as to say that sandroba has put so much faith into syllo that a vote for either is semi-interchangable. Between the two of them, I see one party leader ticket. I don't have presently a town read on syllo, and so am less comfortable voting for Sandroba than I previously was. Sandroba, who was someone I was very excited about having as party leader with his solid early ideas for how to select his party, also has yet to provide some idea of who he's considering at present for his party. This is another point that makes me less comfortable voting Sandroba. I'm still leaning towards sandroba being town, but I question why it is he has become fairly quiet relative to the beginning of the game. So, in Summary...: While many here give Sandroba/Syllo respect for being a "vet," it's incredibly hard for me to sort through a sea of one-liners and go, "That guy is definitely town..." Actually, insert Marv's name here too as he's guiltiest of this... My Current Plan: I will be reassessing my reads by going back through everyone's filters, and selecting my own party. There are plenty here who are not as familiar with my "meta," or who have never played with me before. I can understand how it is that it would be hard for them to vote for me or take me as seriously as their favorite vet. However, blindly voting your favorite guy is a system I refuse to be a part of. The heavy vet preference from other players comes, as best I can tell, from this logic: "Well, I'm too lazy/incompetent/troll to play this game so I want to vote for someone who I know actually tries..." So your reads on others may not be perfect, but who cares? Why even bother playing a game of mafia if you're just going to throw all your eggs into one basket like all you who have voted for sandroba/syllo have? I myself would rather put all my money on red at the roulette table + Show Spoiler + (I know, how cliche -_-) Mafia manipulation: Many of you seem to fear that it will be super-easy for mafia to hide in a setup where they don't necessarily need to spend all that much time faking scumhunting. But when you blindly vote for one guy you are missing an amazing opportunity to spot them out. By voting for a known 4-person party (where the party leader presents his choices) you are doing a better job of forcing their hand. They will be trying to steer the vote towards selecting their own members, and their voting should reflect that. As an added bonus, this allows you to spread your risk. You can determine if the choices of the party leader match up to your own, and at least to some degree, determine how likely it is that the party has a mafia member in it. By voting for a singular leader, it's an all or nothing proposition. They get their candidate in, or they don't. Either way, we get far less information from that. We will not be able to narrow down what went wrong should things go wrong. Is it a scum party leader with questionable choices or a town party leader with questionable choices? The only way you'd know for sure is to lynch every party leader who fails his mission... This is a system I am wholeheartedly opposed to. In Conclusion: Nothing in this game is certain, but what I am certain of is that there's not a snowflake's prayer in hell I'm voting for either sandroba or syllo (or should I say sandollo?) until they provide more information on who they're bringing and why. I wasn't altogether serious about "running for office" before but I am now. I am unhappy with what I see and will be making a post outlining who I'll bring and why within the next couple hours. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
| ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
I'm guessing he has a suicide bomber-type role as cyrus has a rather unfortunate demise at the hands of Magus in the game. Finally went through all the filters. Now going to go through my short-list to make my proposed party... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
I will not lie. None of these I have a "definitely town" read on. However, given the context of their play so far, I feel their play is more likely town-motivated than scum-motivated, and the best prospects for being town. In no particular order: 1) Oats: This is a guy who has played unafraid of what others think of him, making a mediocre (at best) case against clarity and chiming in every chance he gets. He clearly is excited to scumhunt, which is what I believe to be the only reason he placed a vote on toad. I visualize a scum in this setup taking more time discussing who's town, which is definitely the "safer" route. 2) Djo: I can't say that I have a very strong read on him, but I'm leaning towards town. He has proposed his own ideas for how to run an election. A scum could be just as forthcoming, however. Beyond that, I have to go off of his reads: he doesn't trust acro and prox, and thinks oats is town. I am in general agreement there. Definitely my weakest read. 3) Sandroba: However much I feel he's playing lazy (he is), I keep coming back to his filter. I do currently believe that he is town. Everything he has done to date has been to provide clarity and insight into reads others have had and the general mechanics of this specific game. He could do this as scum, but I am inclined to believe he could have been a little less helpful and gotten away with it as scum as well. I look forward to seeing his proposed party as this will provide the information I need to help solidify my understanding of his thought process and determine if he truly belongs on this platform. But as it currently stands, I believe him to be town, and am including him on my platform. A brief note on Dieno: He is playing so badly that many would consider him likely town, as newbie scum tend to play far more cautiously. However, the persistence and singlemindedness with which he's been pushing his campaign (even after repeatedly being warned) and shitting up the thread leaves enough doubt in my head to exclude him. As a newbie town trying to improve he would have changed his gameplan long ago, as a troll he would be more, well, trolly, and as a newbie who doesn't give a shit he would have given up. How he's been playing is just plain sad, to the point where I wonder if what he's been doing is deliberately anti-town as a scum. He most definitely could be town, but I would rather not take such a risk on such an unknown. I would not say these names are 100% rigid, but I would have to hear a really damn good argument for me to change this lineup. I look forward to hearing what all of you have to say. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 22 2012 15:18 Promethelax wrote: GK: 1) I miss being called prox <3 2) Your proposed team is butt fuck bad. Including Sand makes voting you as bad an idea as voting Sand. If I was confidant that Sand was town I'd vote his ass over yours any day (no offense but he is a beast and you are one of the top newbs to come out of the games when I was new. But so are Keir and Hapa). 3) Oats isn't a town read, he is an 'excited to play mafia' read. He reminds me a lot of my first game where I posted all of the posts even though I was mafia and being quiet would have been smarter. 4) you called Djo a weak town read for you and said you couldn't see this team changing. Sorry bud, not a chance you'll get my vote. I like you as a person but this election ain't for you. Just to be clear, my choices weren't specifically made because I just have to win an election. I'm honestly not that upset if I don't win, as long as what I feel to be a strong town team party is established as an outcome of the discussion. To that end, I didn't put winning chances into consideration when determining my party... You are right that being quiet in this particular setup is terrible for mafia. But at the same time I had trouble supporting a party full of inactives and semilurkers, as there's no way to definitively determine that they are town either. I chose to eliminate anyone I deemed difficult to definitively read. That included: trolls (Kush and friends), hardcore lurkers (such as Adam), semi-lurkers (such as yourself, at the time I made my picks), and hard-to-read vets (such as Marv). That narrowed the field of who I could choose substantially. I do very much appreciate the concerns you have voiced over my picks. I would say it was largely via a process of elimination. But I would ask that if you are so adamently opposed to them that you explain to me how the alternatives you support are better suited. Kitaman has done nothing to establish he's town. He's said he wants to be leader, and that's honestly about it. I suppose he's made a few jabs at really safe targets too (such as kush...). Deino is largely an unknown. Acro is someone whose meta and story I can't presently follow. He's clearly angry, but as a townie or scum I can't decide at present. You seem to be an avid supporter of him, so I would be interested to know what quality he possesses that has you so confident he is town. As for Prox: I was thinking you would make a good candidate, but your activity waned. Not only that, but since proposing some solid setup ideas, you have fervently supported Acro for reasons unbeknownst to me... And have been opposed to Sandroba, again for reasons unbeknownst to me... I would really appreciate clarification in both departments. I definitely took a hardline, rigid stance on my choices, but that doesn't mean I won't change them if you propose a strong alternative. As it is, however, you have yet to do so. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
| ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 22 2012 16:11 Promethelax wrote: GK: it seems to me that scum want to be elected leader (an assumption but ah well, I have to go with what I have) or at least be a party member, since there were only two candidates who seemed like they would take each other in thier parties I was deeply unhappy. If scum wants be leader (which I believe) than one of Sand or Syllo must be scum. Otherwise a strong candidate would have appeared to oppose them, since that had not appeared I assumed that mafia was content with what we were doing and I was not content with that. As I said pre-game I am trying to change the way I play. I can't commit the time I have in the past and I am trying to remain an active town asset despite that. If you don't trust me yet that is fine, I'm playing differently than I ever have before and, for some reason people still think I'm a great scum player, you'll realize that I'm town eventually. My activity will always be in spurts. Kita may not be the best leader but he is better than Syllo/Sand (though I would vote Syllo over sand) and I hate the party you chose. I think that Kita has a chance to be party leader and has a better chance of being town than Sand or Syllo. His town reads also agree with mine. Syllo: please answer my earlier questions. I understand your concerns about a scum party leader winning day one, but I still don't see any reason why Kita is any less likely to fit that bill. He gained zero momentum until now, and I would speculate that from a scum perspective that is because scum would not vote their candidate without some support jumping onto it. Speculation to be sure, but I don't see any reason why he's less likely to be scum than syllo/sand. Also keep in mind that sand upfront gave syllo "veto powers." Imagine how unnecessary (and ridiculous) a move that would be from a scum perspective, when sand had at that point gained considerable momentum in his campaign and had nothing to gain as scum for making such a statement. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 22 2012 17:29 sandroba wrote: I'll probably be taking oats/die/kush (if he doesnt die). And who would you take if kush does die? I was kind of working under the assumption that he was going to... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
##Vote: Goodkarma I find it unfortunate there isn't more participation in debate of the candidates now that everyone who is going to run for party leader has come forward. Hopefully this changes in the next couple hours. P.S.: I will not be around much tomorrow as I will be out for U.S. Thanksgiving holiday. So between tonight and tomorrow morning I would strongly recommend that those who haven't come forward to voice their opinions do so so I can address any questions you might still have before the voting deadline. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 22 2012 18:52 phagga wrote: @Goodkarma If you trust Sandro so much, why do you not vote him? If GK thinks Sandro is so townie that you includes him in your team, why should I vote you instead of Sandro? What do you say to the following: You are scum, you include a town sandro to make his team more townie, hoping to catch more votes like that. I answered all of these questions if you were to actually take the time to read my filter... As for what I think of Sandroba currently, I can understand the selection of Kush, but I don't like it. If Kush is in fact telling the truth I find it hard to believe there are that many people lower than 30 HP in a game that has 999HP max (I know this is very speculative but still...). As such I would expect him to have a contingency plan if Kush were to die... I readily admit that Sandroba may not be the best candidate as he's been playing. Since I nominated him, he's been extremely stingy with the details of who he plans on choosing and why. Further I missed there was a role claim by Dien... And I will admit that by adopting a process of elimination-type process it is possible that I overlooked better qualified candidates that are possibly in the "semi-lurker" position. Prox especially comes to mind. But I would like to say that while this is definitely in part my fault it is additionally the fault of those people who have decided to sit back and let things play out without voicing their opinions. It has made it that much harder for me to find three strong candidates. I will reassess my choices, and have a finalized list here in the next few hours. I'll try to touch up on the thread tomorrow as best I can, but will be rather time-limited. Currently the two I object most to on the Kita ticket are Kita and Acros. Kita especially as he has done very little to even try to establish himself as town, and, as the leader of his ticket, that worries me. A lot... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 22 2012 15:53 syllogism wrote: Right now I would say there is a >50% chance that sandroba is mafia. His interest in the game feels superficial and some of his posts feel off. For instance him saying that he is "torn" about clarity_nl as opposed to actually stating whether he now thinks it is more likely that he is town or mafia. His explanation as to why he thought clarity was mafia is also pretty weak by his standards. Pouncing with one-liners on weak stuff? That probably applies to many, many people in every single game. Missed this discussion from syllogism on Sandro... He is no longer on my list. Oats is on both of our lists, and upon skimming his filter I found this: On November 21 2012 15:44 Oatsmaster wrote: Dont guess Djo, how could you know how mafia KPs work in this setup. Does scum have to send in actions before they know who the party leader is? or after the whole party is made? I think you misunderstand me. My point is that we should focus on completing the tasks since that is the only way town gets an advantage. The best way to complete the tasks is the send the 4 towniest players I know it's petty semantics, but since sending in actions is a matter-of-fact thing, I would expect a town to ask if actions were sent in before or after. Since it is a disadvantageous thing for scum if actions are sent in, asking if they have to be sent before party leaders are announced makes sense. So What Now?: Oats is definitely a bit of a try-hard newbie, and honestly that was part of what I felt was townie about him. The biggest issue, however, is that being a tryhard this game is pretty important for the scum wincon, and as such I would expect most scum to be active members (likely more active than town). Between this and that he was included on sandro's list, I am inclined to remove him as well for the time being. I'm not saying he's scum, but I was too eager to bring in people I saw as active and acting pro-town while he could just as easily be acting as scum in this way. Oh wait? Does that mean that you are about-facing and saying Sandroba is scum? Not necessarily. All I know is that there is enough doubt on him, and since I nominated him he has performed very poorly for town. In my opinon town has not done enough to differentiate itself from the scum and that is where my problem has been. These two are going to be replaced with your average town representatives, which at this point of the game I am confident is the semi-lurker demographic. It's not what I would have hoped for, but it looks to be the safest demographic to tap from, especially since more than half the current players reside there... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Filter reading tyme. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
In no particular order: 1) Djo 2) phagga 3) dieno (only because dieno has made a role-claim I am inclined to cautiously believe...) I will be around the next thirty minutes, and will review the thread briefly afterwards in about six hours. Please discuss any thoughts or concerns you have of these players before then. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
phagga - Again not a strong read. He fits my selection criteria of a semi-lurker who shows interest in scumhunting and has his own train of thought for how to go about selecting a candidate... Indeed phagga does not have as much of a track record as I would consider ideal in making a read in a normal game, but for this particular setup he is not being as active as would be ideal for mafia. That was a part of my train of thought in choosing him. Presently the challenge has been differentiating town from scum and that has been harder with the "townhunting" system. This is the system I have devised to increase the chances of picking town this cycle. I am open to hearing other suggestions, but as it currently stands this would be an ideal team for my selection criteria. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
You are certainly entitled to distrust me. I spent a good portion of the opening of this game discussing mechanics and not really so much reads. However, I would like to point out that I have since then: 1) Established a system of greater transparency for who is selected. It is very likely all we'd discuss is party leader, and not the corresponding parties, if I hadn't stepped in. Further, I have shown exactly why this is the best approach... 2) I have been proactive about demonstrating exactly why it is I have chosen who I have and my line of reasoning. Further, I have been (and continue to be) willing to change my platform if compelling evidence can be brought to my attention that a candidate is a weak choice. 3) The only reason I have pursued a party leader position this cycle is that the alternatives I feel at this point do not have trustworthy platforms. I am not trusting of Kita, nor at this point am I content with sending sandroba. 4) I have actually been active this game... If you were to look at any of my scum games, you would notice that I am not nearly this proactive when I play scum. You have discussed prior how it would be absolutely great if we had a candidate that had an easily recognizable town vs. scum game. Well, your welcome. I will not be submitting my party until I leave for Thanksgiving lunch/dinner late tomorrow morning. I look forward to hearing your opinions on my party, and replying to them in a few hours. But until then, I'm getting a few hours' rest. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 22 2012 22:25 marvellosity wrote: So you think the benefits of you knowing (from your perspective) you are town but unable to make strong townreads outweighs the risk that another candidate is not town, but is capable of making strong townreads? From what I've seen the other candidates have not made strong townreads. Okay, now I'm going to bed... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 23 2012 00:18 syllogism wrote: I can't explain it better than I have. It doesn't feel like he cares about figuring things out and there is no sense of urgency despite him being one of the most likely people to be elected. He has made no attempts at figuring out who mafia is and it seems to me he is hiding behind the fact he doesn't have to. There is being lazy and then there is just not caring. My other reasons rely on my knowledge of how he thinks and some of the things he has said feel off; can't elaborate more on that. Yes, I might gain more votes by making my reads public. I would also gain more reads by pretending to be completely confident in my reads; I'm not. I have not finalized my team yet (right now I've 2 whom I'm likely to take and a few possibilities for the third) and may not finalize it until the end. An honest assessment as to why I'm not going to is a combination of considering it optimal play (if I get the votes), being lazy and because sometimes my town reads rely on things other players may find flimsy or the reasons are otherwise difficult to explain (tone, whether the person feels earnest). If I were mafia, there would be absolutely no reason not to make the list of people I intend to pick public. I question if this is in fact true. Being held accountable upfront for the people you choose is important, as is producing an open forum of discussion for others. Such discussion provides valuable information about others' thought processes that would otherwise be lost. Also, from a scum perspective, a blind ticket can sometimes be more appealing for people to get behind than a known ticket (And for this reason being secretive would be a good play as mafia.)... And yes, I'm droning, and, this certainly is obvious, yet it beared discussion due to how absurd the bolded portion of your quote is. I honestly don't care if you find your reasoning for one or two members of your selected party could be flimsy to others. Give us a chance to stack up your chosen party against your reads. Pretty please. As for what I plan to do: I hereby concede my campaign. There did appear to be some going interest in it, and I will certainly take future note of it for the future. However, I will not have the appropriate time to gather the momentum I will need to come from behind, and it is important we consolidate our votes as the deadline approaches. I will be voting for syllogism. I am really displeased with his determination to keep his party secret, as I have already outlined. However, he is hands down the lesser of the three (fairly evenly distributed by votes) evils. Of Kita, Sandroba, and Syllo, I choose syllo. I would further recommend that in the interest of consolidation as soon as possible we bring it down to two people. Having three people stay in the running in the long term will be much easier for mafia to manipulate. ##Unvote ##Vote: Syllogism | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On the other hand, if Sandroba's meta (as stated by others here) is to be believed, he is a clear choice as a lynching candidate for today. He has gone into hardcore lurker mode, which normally is something I wouldn't consider a tell. However, as a player of his reputation that plays so well as town to disappear as he has, I deem voting to lynch him appropriate. I would like to hear what he has to say to explain his current complete lack of caring since very early this game. And until he does: ##Vote: Sandroba | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 23 2012 21:51 sandroba wrote: Oh my it seems I'm the only person in the game that doesn't get to have a real life every so often. I spent the night at a girl's house ytd and only got home now. I thought I would give the thread a quick read before heading to bed (yes my sleep schedule is severely fucked up) and I see that suddenly I became the main wagon. Nice. Weekend is ahead and it will be extremelly busy and now I have to fight syllo induced mislynch just to prob face the same problem again the next day. Thx. I'll be here briefily if anyone want to interact, but I'm heading to bed. I took 125 dmg and got roleblocked. By all means irl things happen. But that doesn't mean that your absence isn't scum-motivated... For what it's worth, though, lurker is not equal to scum, and my vote on you was more of a pressure vote. I can excuse you had irl things going on, but would certainly hope that you are more active for the remainder of the game. I would like to see these amazing scumhunting abilities that other players strongly believe you to be capable of. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 23 2012 22:44 Acrofales wrote: Before I actually get going properly on GK's filter there is a question that is still bugging me. GK: why did you want to run for party leader? On November 22 2012 22:30 goodkarma wrote: For all those who are still distrustful of me: You are certainly entitled to distrust me. I spent a good portion of the opening of this game discussing mechanics and not really so much reads. However, I would like to point out that I have since then: 1) Established a system of greater transparency for who is selected. It is very likely all we'd discuss is party leader, and not the corresponding parties, if I hadn't stepped in. Further, I have shown exactly why this is the best approach... 2) I have been proactive about demonstrating exactly why it is I have chosen who I have and my line of reasoning. Further, I have been (and continue to be) willing to change my platform if compelling evidence can be brought to my attention that a candidate is a weak choice. 3) The only reason I have pursued a party leader position this cycle is that the alternatives I feel at this point do not have trustworthy platforms. I am not trusting of Kita, nor at this point am I content with sending sandroba. 4) I have actually been active this game... If you were to look at any of my scum games, you would notice that I am not nearly this proactive when I play scum. You have discussed prior how it would be absolutely great if we had a candidate that had an easily recognizable town vs. scum game. Well, your welcome. I will not be submitting my party until I leave for Thanksgiving lunch/dinner late tomorrow morning. I look forward to hearing your opinions on my party, and replying to them in a few hours. But until then, I'm getting a few hours' rest. You can add to that dissatisfaction with syllo's decision to not discuss who was in his party. If you're wandering why that bothered me so much, I could quote more stuff from my filter I guess... -_- Tbh, I've done my best to be very transparent in my reasoning behind my decisions. Most questions you bring up about motives for playing as I have I am quite confident that you will find the answers to in my filter. On November 23 2012 22:58 marvellosity wrote: Ok, but for what it's worth (something Dino won't know) BC and DrH pegged goodkarma as scum in... Palmar's normal (LVII?) for making a post that looked way too constructed. I had a look at gk's filter in his town game in newbie XXIV before I made my post earlier, and I didn't feel quite so certainly about it as I thought I would have. XXIV is on the front page if you wanna have a look yourself. I definitely managed to push town to victory in NMM XXIV, but I would be the first to admit my early play that game was a bit weaker. This is an area I am still refining. I would say my strength as a town player comes in after a few days of play, being able to assess via a process of elimination-type approach who scum is. Doesn't really help any for showing I'm town this game, but at the very least you should find that there is some consistency between how I played that game and this one as town. I would hope I'm improving, but feel free to meta-analyze me based off one data point if you wish. A few more questions/comments I'd still like to address. I'm going to break this post up a bit so that those who are actively looking through my filter have a bit more to work with when getting a read on me. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 24 2012 01:08 Clarity_nl wrote: GK how do you feel about Hapa's townread on you? I am not in the least bit surprised that he has made one. Hapa and I have played together now for a few games. He has a good feel for how I play between when I'm town and when I'm scum. I can safely say that his read on me is largely based on meta, and how I am substantially lazier when I am scum. Maybe also that my play is less "clean," to use his terminology when he managed to lynch me as scum last minute day one in NMM XXIII. Undoubtedly, my scum meta should be expected to shift between games as I improve and I am a little dissatisfied that he would think I could not refine my scum meta to at least somewhat resemble my town one. But he has come to the correct conclusion, for the right reasons. I do regret that the last few times I've played with him I never took the time to congratulate him, so I'll do so now. He played NMM XXIII spectacularly, and it has been a pleasure to play with him since then. <3 Happa | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 24 2012 01:18 Acrofales wrote: So the sequence of events went something like this: discontent with lack of transparency in who candidates would choose to go with them-->seriously run for office (in part to show by example how others should run, showing others who they'd actually bring) Upon reassessing my read on Sandro, I came to the realization that he was a poor choice, but the original intent in running was to get going the idea that the entire party should be known up-front. Again, this should be clear from my filter... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 24 2012 01:01 Djodref wrote: @goodkarma @goodkarma Can I ask you for more detailed reasons for your previous town read on me ? How did this read evolve ? Was I really one of your top 3 townreads at that time ? How could you take someone on your party with only a weak read on him ? I have some difficulties to believe this because we have never played together and I usually come off as scummy at first sight. I didn't pay too much attention to it the first time because I was kind of proud that you picked me I don't have anything more to say than what's already in my filter about why it was I picked you. As for why I'd choose a weak town read, which is a question a few people have asked: I simply did not have three strong town reads on my list. It may feel "cheap," but you're going to have to accept that getting multiple strong early town reads on a bunch of people I've never played with before has never been my forte. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 24 2012 04:41 Z-BosoN wrote: This is pretty interesting. GK is in fact detached as scum, as from his LVII filter, but I think that his much higher activity is fairly town-oriented, he's prodding around and asking questions. While he does seem detached and has taken the "lecturer tone", I don't see this necessarily be mafia-oriented, due to his activity. After checking his filter, though, there is one thing that I don't really understand, and I would like him to answer this. He goes from: To: Fairly quickly (in around 7 hours). @goodkarma I would like to know what made you change your mind heavily on dienosore. I don't think that's very clear from your filter. You mention his roleclaim, so was that solely it? Please explain. Yes, it had solely to do with his roleclaim. I maintain what I said in the earlier post, but what makes him a town read for me is how absolutely stupid it would be for him to fakeclaim frog (of all people) as scum. Scum would have to fear a counter-claim, and as a newbie scum I'm very skeptical he'd have made such a move on his own. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Long story short I was starting a writeup on my thoughts on TheChronicler. I was going to state something along the lines of "Making contradictions isn't something that only scum does, and is not inherantly a scumtell." This may still ring true, but I'm going to take a closer look before this is my conclusive answer. He seems to be piling on more stuff that leads me to stop and think, such as his latest quote: On November 24 2012 05:12 TheChronicler wrote: Again there's no contradiction and I have a hard time believing acro is that bad. Where do I say I'm convinced my plan was bad acro? I still think its what we should have done and what we should do. However, I'm not so blind as to stick to my plan if everyone else thinks its horrible. Do you expect me to scream and shout shitting up the thread? No one liked my plan, I gave it up because shitting up the thread with discussion about it is stupid. Kind of like what you're doing right now... Where did I say the people I chose would be my town reads? You're grasping at straws here trying to make me look bad. I can't help but look at the person who I think started this and then dipped from the thread, Z-Bo Wat? But you can definitely expect from me a more definitive look at whether I think he is scum, and for me to list my top scum suspect tonight. I know my vote right now is on Sandroba, but given my unfamiliarity with his meta I can't really say it's anything other than a pressure vote on a lurker... You can expect it will probably change. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
I will keep my vote on Sandroba for the time being. Syllo has all but proven himself to be town at this point, and I will change my vote from Sandroba only if he somehow believes he isn't scum after his latest post. This only because I don't feel my scumread on Sandroba is strong enough without the reaffirmation. And yes, sheeping makes me a hypotwit... I am going to now focus my attention on TheChronicler and Kitaman | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
| ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
"Making contradictions isn't something that only scum does, and is not inherantly a scumtell." He may be playing in a confusing manner, tripping on his own words, but I don't really see any scum motive behind what he's done so far. Add to that the somewhat more subjective feeling I have that his defensiveness is indeed reflective of an indignant townie, and I conclude that I do not want to lynch him this vote cycle. I was fairly confident I would come to this conclusion, but I really wanted to reflect a bit on the nature of his proposed plan to see if it really could be argued to have much merit from a town perspective before coming to this conclusion. And while in my opinion it's a pretty poor way of going about things day one, I can at least see how a townie might have proposed it. Now moving onto Kitaman... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
There is the chance that he is in fact telling the truth about the guessing game he brought up even as scum. As such, he may die even if he isn't lynched, making him a low priority for today. I'm sticking with Sandroba. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 24 2012 14:29 TheChronicler wrote: Lol, you have to be scum. There's absolutely no way I can see you as town. I sat here for like five minutes trying to find the contradiction, then I realized this was just so much easier to explain if you/acro were scum together. Really? Two people jumping on the same thing and both being equally wrong? I've given a lot of leeway with reading for this, but I can't find anything in my posts that say I would choose town reads. Why try and make something so easily checked like that up? Something so purposefully misleading only has scum motivation. Association based scum read on two unflipped players? Even a scrub like me knows that's sloppy play... -_- | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 24 2012 14:57 iamperfection wrote: also i caught yourharry with 0 posts once but thats a bad example. There will be plenty of time to show off your e-peen post game. Who is your top scum read right now, and why? | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 25 2012 03:45 kitaman27 wrote: Marv, in response to your case against me: -snip- @Acro, I currently have the players in the game ranked and I have TheChronicler in the top 10 for likely scum suspects due to his reactionary playstyle and his focus on his himself. I've devoted my time elsewhere however so I've only read his filter once. Could you provide your top five scum suspects? It would be a shame to let such a list go to waste... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 25 2012 04:02 Dienosore wrote: "Could you provide your top five scum suspects? It would be a shame to let such a perfect opportunity to paint a target on you if you are close". If town, Kita, as a major candidate for today's lynching, should be doing everything in his power to establish his innocence. Such a list would help us understand his underlying thought process, and would be something for us to work off of should he (as town) be mislynched. How, as town, could he have CaveJohnson listed as a top lynch prospect for today? It's already been asked before, but seeing the other people he has at the top of his suspect list could help provide further insight. Especially since he has yet to tell us who he even thinks is worth his vote today. And by the way, as a special note: There's a very good reason I've been ignoring you. You have yet to provide anything useful. Your question doesn't provide anything of insight. Do you think Kita is innocent then, and I'm scum trying to get him mislynched? If so, why? I don't care to see any more giant images with everyone's names on it and squiggly lines. If you want to contribute think of why, as scum, your top suspect is acting as he is. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 25 2012 04:41 Acrofales wrote: No clue why I addressed that to just Marv. He's currently the most vocal, but EVERYBODY should look at the absolute lack of any useful posts in Toad's filter. I agree that Toad has been useless, but think in this context: It's four hours until lynch deadline... I am curious: Are you really that dissatisfied with the other lynch choices that you feel now is the time to form a new wagon? We should be consolidating between two candidates, not making forming new bandwagons. That makes it that much easier for mafia to manipulate the outcome for plurality lynch (Obvious, right? I state the obvious because people keep trying stunts like this...) | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Let me reword that: Why exactly do you think pursuing a Sandroba or Kita lynch has no merit? | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
I should add further that indeed Toad could be scum, but I don't get why your read on him would stronger than a scum read on Sandroba. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
| ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 25 2012 05:17 Acrofales wrote: Why do you like that? It's actually a terrible post. He says he's null on marv, troll on drazerk and gives some waffling account of that he wants other people to tell him what to think of chronicler. He calls Dienosore useless (or unintelligible at best). Way to be COMPLETELY noncommittal. What is there to like in that post? What I am still missing is an explanation for why he voted Sandro. This, and the fact that he thinks there is a scum in Syllo+Sandro, are the only reasons he gives for wanting to lynch Sandro. If Sandro flips town, it is impossible to peg Toad to this lynch. So if we sheep you instead and vote for Toad, for reasons similar to why people are voting Sandro, how does that make us better off? If Toad flips town, isn't it the same kind of scenario? Or is it that sandro seems to have massive support, and that it must be mafia-influenced? With as little as Sandro has tried to establish himself as town this game, if he is scum I would fully expect his team would bus him, especially with Syllo on his lynch bandwagon. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 25 2012 05:33 Acrofales wrote: I'm not telling you to sheep me, although I guess I would be honored. I am asking you to read my case, read Toad's filter and make up your own mind. I have voiced my opinion. I will try to sway the general public with lots of armwaving and explaining why Toad is scum, but in the end it's YOU who has to make up your mind. So. Why do YOU think Sandro is scum. Fairly certain you're one of those people who is sheeping Syllo for no apparent reason other than Syllo says, so it must be so. If you were to read my filter, you would know: On November 24 2012 13:34 goodkarma wrote: I can understand the excuses that Sandroba has provided, but I find the complete lack of followup on who he would consider a prime scum suspect to be disturbing. It's as though he is holding back, maybe... because he's scum, and as scum making up even a half-baked scumread is hard for him. I would really like to see him take some initiative and actually help town out. He continues to fail to deliver in this department, which would leave me to believe that his complete apathy and lack of involvement in this game is indeed scum-driven. I will keep my vote on Sandroba for the time being. Syllo has all but proven himself to be town at this point, and I will change my vote from Sandroba only if he somehow believes he isn't scum after his latest post. This only because I don't feel my scumread on Sandroba is strong enough without the reaffirmation. And yes, sheeping makes me a hypotwit... I am going to now focus my attention on TheChronicler and Kitaman Yes, there is a bit of "sheeping" on my part there. But in the absence of a better scum read, on Sandro is where my vote will stay. I have heard nothing from you that convinces me that Toad is any more likely to flip scum than Sandro is, or even that getting Toad lynched instead will provide any additional information. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 25 2012 05:43 Clarity_nl wrote: @ goodkarma If you think they're both equal but you voted for Sandro first and that's why you stay, consider that Toad has actually stayed active but produced just as much content as Toad. This is a good point, but it's not like Sandro has been perma-afk or anything. He has been incredibly inactive, but when he has been here he has had nothing to contribute except in defense of himself. This has been brought up before, but it is the same kind of scumtell as you're using for the case against Toad. I won't be upset if Toad is lynched. However, that syllo is on Sandro, and I know that syllo is town, is enough to tip the scales in favor of lynching sandro for me. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 25 2012 05:52 CaveJohnson wrote: Is toad a reverse fool? also Hi sorry for my absence. Don't apologize. We've come to expect you to contribute nothing of value. Maybe provide an actual opinion and vote? That would be nice. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 25 2012 05:56 Hapahauli wrote: Sandro looks to be heading to a modkill, and for those of you voting for him, it's worth it to consider another voting option as to not waste the lynch for today. Toad perhaps. For what it's worth, I'll check back into this thread and change my vote to Toad if this indeed becomes the case. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 25 2012 07:01 phagga wrote: hey all, i'm back. I'm currently reading from page 113. If anyone has urgent questions to me, please point them to me here, i will refresh this page every 2 minutes or so to address them. My vote is currently on CaveJohnson. CaveJohnson has ZERO chance of getting lynched right now... You're not doing us any favors by not weighing in on the two main candidates... If you were to choose between Toad and Sandroba, who would it be and why? | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 25 2012 07:00 Keirathi wrote: How the hell do you KNOW that syllo is town? He's not confirmed town by any means. I am under the working assumption that he is town based off mission success. In other words... what iamp said. Unless you plan on making a last-minute wagon on me due to this one instance of poor word choice, though, perhaps weighing in on the two main candidates would be a better use of your time? My mind is blown that with an hour left to go people nitpick over things like this when really the only question you should be asking is: Sandroba or Toad? | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 25 2012 07:19 iamperfection wrote: Really? your suggesting we shouldn't be still scumhunting and have tunnel vision. Keriharti nitpicking and aggression there is also a town tell in my view. He is suspicious in a good way. Your point there was scummy as shit. You think we should have blinders on right now really? We need to consolidate. Anything more than 2 candidates is that much easier for mafia to manipulate. Hence what I said. Now like 40 mins. left. Yes, it would be pretty absurd imho to try jumping on someone else at this point unless they outright waved their arms and said "I'm scum." I stand by what I said and would suggest that maybe instead of making remarks like this you spend a little more time discussing the candidates, especially toad. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 25 2012 07:23 Keirathi wrote: I'm working on a post about Sandro and Toad. It takes time to write up something like that, and I keep refreshing the end of the thread to see if there's any kind of new evidence or opinions that I should take into account. But that comment was more than just a "poor" choice of words. I've had a few posts this game that were misconstrued because of a poor choice of words, but what you said was borderline scumslip. If it wasn't so late in the day, I would put more research into you, but I just don't have time. Good call. I am more than happy to discuss any case you bring against me. But for now let's focus on the matter at hand. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 25 2012 07:34 Djodref wrote: the matter at hand is that a good amount of sandroba's voters are lurky sheepers... Adam, risk.nuke, S&B and one or two other that I forget. There is not enough people is the thread right now to change anything. Sandrba lynch is sealed imo... I'm still here, and I'll switch to toad last-minute if it's clear sandroba is going to be modkilled. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
I'm changing my vote. ##Unvote ##Vote: Toad | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
##Vote Syllo I propose we vote our leader, and spend the rest of this cycle scumhunting. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 25 2012 10:12 GreYMisT wrote: Everyone I am very sorry for this, It should have been included in the daypost but I rushed it. Luckily I caught it only an hour in and this shall be editied in. In addition to the party only being able to contain half of the same players as the previous party, the same party leader may not be elected twice in a row. This means syllogism is ineligible to be elected as leader. This was supposed to be explained via flavor but you know... Again very sorry that this information was not presented to you guys immediately. That makes things harder... So, it should be a no-brainer to shoo in one of the people from the previous successful party. I would rather not have dienosaur as party leader. Between Oats and Keir, I flipped a coin and it came up... ##Vote: Keirathi But in all seriousness, Oats and Keir do not have Syllo-esque reads, and I believe it would be best if they have some guidance for who else they bring. Even if it's just Syllo telling one of them exactly what to do (In fact, I'd approve of this idea.). | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 25 2012 10:25 Hapahauli wrote: ##Vote Marvellosity I think he's town, and I trust his town-reading ability more than any possible alternatives at this point. Keep in mind there are other ways of going about this. Working under the premise that the successful team day one is all but confirmed town, we can cherry pick from that to form a team as quickly as possible. Pick a decent townie (like Keir), and then use the member whose judgement is arguably strongest (syllo) to determine the remainder of the party to be selected. Sure, it involves lots of sheeping, but it is a very sound way of removing any potential for mafia manipulation in the selection process. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 25 2012 10:32 Hapahauli wrote: Well I think there's more consideration than just to create a team that's as "safe" as possible. One of the functions of running these missions is to confirm people as town. In that regard, I don't mind electing players that I'm strongly reading as town, as opposed to "confirmed" townies (via previous mission). We can confirm strong town reads if success, or a possible failure could alert us to a dangerous scumplayer. Really? I thought the function of these missions was winning... We can only have half the party from last time anyway, so some confirming will be involved. But why not leave the reigns in the hands of people we (pretty much with absolute certainty) know to be town? I see no down-side. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 25 2012 10:37 Keirathi wrote: So, my proposed party if people want me to be leader 1) Dieno - as close to confirmed town as it gets. 2) marv - despite getting niggles day 1 from his reluctance to running for party leader AND he generally less aggressive attitude, I feel like his day 2 play is exactly what I expect from a town marv Not really sure about the last spot though. My gut says Acrofales is pretty obvious town because of the way he's been actively trying to solve the game, having discussions to clarify opinions with everyone he wants to talk about, etc etc. But, I'm not really very familiar with his town play much (mostly just reading ACME), nor his scum play at all. I also read Marv as town, but I don't know how I feel about him being put in a party. From what I've heard, he has a crazy good scum game, so perhaps choosing another person would be best... Also: Could you clarify once and for all what your early game comment about having a low success modifier was about? | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 25 2012 10:39 Hapahauli wrote: Well I honestly don't know what the success/failure of a mission determines behind the scenes. However, missions can confirm people as town, and we also need to consider that aspect of it when making a decision. All that winning gave us last time was the chance to lynch. If that's all that happens when things go well, then, yeah, I'd rather not learn what happens when we fail... Hint: I doubt we'll be able to lynch. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 25 2012 10:47 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok sounds legit Also I am roleclaiming to prevent scum from claiming first. And also to be on the team and the party leader I am Robo I have an ability that can hit for 50hp. I cant use it consecutive nights. Machine = robot=robo I targeted sandro in the first cycle. Robo should have been given a cooler ability T.T That aside, I have no idea how role-claiming makes you any more qualified to be team leader... Might even make you less qualified since that information really only helps scum at this point. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 22 2012 05:49 Keirathi wrote: I don't know "My 'success modifier' is 3." But I do know that I have a low success modifier. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 25 2012 11:08 Keirathi wrote: Yes, but what question are you wanting me to answer? My role pm specifically says something to the effect that any party I'm in has a lower chance of success. Okay. I just wanted to be extra extra sure about this. In that case, if only 1/2 of the party can come from last time I would rather you were not in it. ##Unvote ##Vote: Oatsmaster It's between Oats and dieno then... I would propose Oats assume party leader and sheep syllo's choices. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
I don't understand what you want to know from this question... I have no psychic abilities that forsee what Greymist might do to us if we fail, if that's what you're getting at. And if you were to look at my comments, I believe I have clearly conveyed that. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
This. Dieno, however bad he is at playing this game, is all but confirmed town. He should be in the party. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 25 2012 17:56 Djodref wrote: Today, Vote Djodref as your Party Leader ! [i]Campaign Platform[i] First of all, I would like to say that my main motivation for launching this campaign is to promote my ideas,like in real politics. I would greatly appreciate that you manifest your support of my ideas via your votes. I really want to win this election! Top 1 reason to vote for me I'm town and it is the only thing I know for sure in this game. This is something I want to show and prove to you during this campaign and by eventually leading you to a successful event ! Top 2 reason to vote for me: avoid the concentration of powers As I've explained before, I think that the town biggest assets right now are Oats and Dieno. I don't want them to run as party leaders and gain some items that would make them a vulnerability for the town for the day we lost one of them to thr mafia or to Lavos. I'm going to keep only one of the players of the previous party and introduce three new players including myself. I'm very confident to get the event to succeed with my team. So we are going to have three players "more likely to be town" that we could easily not consider as lynch candidates for the next lynch event. My ticket
A few things about this...: 1) Okay. You know you're town... I'd say it's safe to assume that Oats and Dieno are town, and you should know that as well. What exactly is wrong with letting let's say Oats take the lead? 2) You say you want to protect them by having the items for yourself? Doesn't that just make you a strong target instead??? Keep in mind that Dieno isn't dead yet, and, if as a main character he can stay alive then Oats + Show Spoiler + (who to the best of my knowledge, I'm not re-reading the "damage report" again...) As of now, using all their resources they have failed to kill a single player two turns into the game. I'd guess that the survivability Oats has actually would make him less of a target as scum is likely to try its best to start killing people, and I'm not sold they can kill Oats in one turn even with everything they've got only on him (based off the total damages reported in the game thus far). Also: dieno and Oats have already claimed, and everyone believes them to be town. So, they are going to be a target whether or not they go... Finally, having a "secret fouth" is fine if you have a demonstrated strong ability to read players. I don't, however, believe that you're going to have the strong reads that someone such as syllo does. I was not okay with syllo having secret reads, but voted him anyway day 1 due to a lack of better options... Since that point, he has demonstrated his reads to be solid to us. You are yet another player who I've never played with before, but unlike syllo, you don't have a strong reputation for making solid reads. So, I am far less satisfied with the idea of a "mystery member" in your party... I can't vote for you. Your reasoning for running is pretty poor. The most pro-town thing you can do is to step down and let a "confirmed town" take the lead. The problems you have with someone like Oats running are rather non-existent... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 25 2012 18:24 Djodref wrote: Come on, have you forget on which campaign platform syllo has been elected ? This guy has been elected qhen his plan was to reveal nothing... But you're not syllo  . | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 26 2012 01:44 Djodref wrote: @iamp I would eat my hat is this "someone" is town. Paying attention ? Like in "I should heal iamp because he is obviously the biggest asset of the town" ? Trying to cattle-prod people of the apathy that iamp has shown won't get you very far... Am I missing something, or have we not finalized a team party? I would have thought that would be our top priority. People I'm okay with seeing in a party (in no particular order): Hapa - definitely someone others here might consider an interesting choice, but he has shown a genuine interest in the thread and I am in general agreement with his reads. I have not played with him when he was scum, so not based off of meta... Oats - prior party, all but "confirmed" town Dieno - prior party, all but "confirmed" town Keir - prior party, all but "confirmed" town syllo - prior party, all but "confirmed" town Acro. - verifiable role claim, super-active and geniunely interested in scum hunting TheChronicler - Don't like his posting, and yet claim is easily verifiable. I doubt scum would have done this. Marv - I can understand the merits of taking him along with three strong town reads as a means of "confirming he's town." I've never played with him before (unless you count rockband, which I replaced out of quite early). As such, I am working off his reputation of being a strong scum player when asking we be cautious about bringing him unless we can establish him as the weak link in our party if it fails. So if I were to recommend a team it would be: Oats / Dieno / (TheChronicler or Hapa) / Marv Keir and Acro are not good picks due to their self-admitted low success modifiers. As for Clarity: Clarity made a "case" on sandroba long after his lynch was gaining traction. If this is the reason people have determined he is a good party candidate, I would ask they reconsider. It's pretty clear scum bussed Sandroba, so I don't give him much town cred for doing this... Oats and Dieno have gained the most traction as party leader. Perhaps we could spend a little time coming to some consensus as to which of them should lead before we argue about scum suspects we can't lynch today? | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
| ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 26 2012 07:04 Keirathi wrote: I guess you have a point. I wasn't really thinking about town abilities like kush had that can just flat-out kill someone. I can't really imagine there are a ton of those floating around though. But, things like Robo's 50 damage per night, or a town ability that does 200 damage, or whatever would be pointless to use on someone like Toad. I mean, I only have 3 reference points (mine, kush's, and sandro's), but those kind of abilities aren't likely to result in a kill. Therefore when we lynch scum, all the damage we did to him before he gets lynched is just wasted abilities. Assuming everyone has HP similar to the two players that have flipped, several of the claimed damaging abilities are nowhere close to enough to kill off a player. As such, it would be worth coordinating a target that all of us devote our efforts toward for this night and all future nights. I'm under the impression that it's highly unlikely scum have a second busser, so even if scum know what's coming I doubt there's much they could do about it. What does everyone think? | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
What do you think of this plan for coordinating vigi shots? Since so far it looks like no one is going to die without multiple people shooting him, it would make sense for us to more actively discuss who is shot each night in addition to scumreads, no? On November 26 2012 14:10 goodkarma wrote: I'm like 12 pages behind right now, and catching up. I figured I'd bring this particular quote up right now. Assuming everyone has HP similar to the two players that have flipped, several of the claimed damaging abilities are nowhere close to enough to kill off a player. As such, it would be worth coordinating a target that all of us devote our efforts toward for this night and all future nights. I'm under the impression that it's highly unlikely scum have a second busser, so even if scum know what's coming I doubt there's much they could do about it. What does everyone think? | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 26 2012 16:32 Oatsmaster wrote: I think that its a null tell. If he is scum and included and we fail, he is immediately under suspicion. If he is town, it is good for town that he is telling us this. I think that scum think it is too big a risk to try to get a scum into the party and hope that it gets confirmed. In what way? If scum does get in the party, there's a good chance we wouldn't get a chance to lynch + Show Spoiler + (speculation to be sure, but something I still believe to be true...) While not an easy proposition, I would argue that Acro would be capable of doing that. And that's more than enough payoff for scum to try to get someone into the party. Assuming at this point that Toad is scum (a safe assumption imho), scum is in a pretty difficult situation. They are going to have to try some kind of high-risk high-reward play to get back in the game. Putting a scum Acro in the party would achieve that. While scum might be scared of getting someone into the party, I would argue that in fact a town Acro would be more likely than a scum Acro to refuse to be in the party at this point. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
| ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
| ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
| ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 26 2012 16:51 Oatsmaster wrote: so GK, your conclusion is that not wanting to be in the party is not a scumtell. RIGHT? Also that if we see someone pushing hard to be in the party, i/e Djo. We should be more suspicious of them I'm saying that it's entirely plausible that scum is still pushing to be in the party even though it could be suicidal at this point long-term. With Djo, he has pushed hard this cycle to be elected. As scum, I doubt that he could secure the mislynch as Acro might. He isn't a strong town read with people here (myself included), and as such I would think he would be worried about being spotted as the weak link in the team. In other words, I would say the opposite with Djo. His pushing to be party leader is rather misguided and in my opinion not very pro-town given the strong alternatives right now. However, it isn't a scum tell. Given that his actions don't really make sense to me as scum, I would actually say it's a town tell. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 26 2012 23:46 Djodref wrote: Unfortunately, I think that hitting Toad would be a waste of my ability at best (heal or protection) a used against the town with a buss at worst. I've realized with the latest comments of Adam that we had no tool to pressure the lurker. We cannot use the "Lynch a Lurker" policy because we don't have so many chances to lynch, so we absolutely have to hit the mafia. Actually, I have really given some thoughts about it. We have decided our party quite fast, and we should be glad about it. But the rest of the discussions during this cycle have been pointless in my opinion and I've noticed that the atmosphere is not good enough to allow us to figure out how we should play and win this game. We lack the usual information from the flips, we lack the participation for a bunch of players and the most vocal players are just creating a fucking amount of noise. I want to put the cat among the pigeons ! I'm gonna shot among the lurkers ! I really hope that some players join me and threaten them into participating. So, if you have already sent your PM to the hosts and that the target is Toad, beware. Be careful, because the mafia team knows who you are targeting. It is going to backfire at town imo... So you should better join me in my quest and just make them shit in their pants. There is a good probability for one of them to be a mafia player anyway Unfair and stupid ? Well, participating is the essence if this game and they have failed at it. They deserve it. So you're claiming a vigi role? All right... I would say that Toad is a low priority target, as in, please don't shoot him. From the two flips we've seen, and based off the abilities that have claimed that can do damage, there is no reason to think we could one-shot Toad. So targeting people we won't be able to get to lynch anytime soon is definitely a better option. Now to be a bit of a pessimist: There's a reason that people lurk. Maybe they're busy, or maybe they just don't give a shit about this game. Whatever the reason, I wouldn't expect vigis this game to motivate them to change their gameplay. Especially with an uncoordinated assault against multiple lurkers that will take multiple turns to have any chance at killing someone... I have one question for you: If you could narrow the lurker field down to 2-3 targets, who would you propose that town target and why? | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 27 2012 00:27 Djodref wrote: I have an ability that allows me to deal some damage today. That's all you need to know. Not giving any target because I don't want the mafia to know about it. If I was comfortable with mafia knowing my target, I would have gone all out against Toad (via PM ofc) since we have realized that he was confirmed scum. Moreover, my goal is not to kill them, my goal is to pressure them. I'll send my PM before the deadline ^^ So you consider shooting someone in the face a lovetap? | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
| ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
I'm a sheep. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
| ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 27 2012 09:23 Promethelax wrote: oh, and ## Vote: Dieno Gk, be a smart sheep. Lol I'm guessing this has something to do with how we assume gifts work, which is completely unconfirmed at this point... You're right. If there are in fact gifts each cycle maybe syllo isn't the best choice. But neither is a deino who is confirmed to be wittled down a sizable chunk of HP. ##Unvote ##Vote: Clarity | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
You stated clearly in thread that your participation lowers the party's success rate. Otherwise I would... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 27 2012 09:28 TheChronicler wrote: Why does Keir's modifier matter? We just keep using a winning team. Since we have absolutely no idea how success rate is determined, why take any unnecessary risks? Until such a time where the actual mechanics for determining success are revealed, I prefer to take what Keir has told us at face value... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 27 2012 09:33 Keirathi wrote: You do realize I was in the night 1 party, right? But we don't know if our chance of success was lowered by your presence that night. If your low success modifier as described in your PM is to be trusted, then bringing you this time around might not be the best idea. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 27 2012 09:40 Promethelax wrote: My reason for not wanting to do that, silly though it seems, is never trust GreYMisT. I think he'd have some way to force us not to use the same party and keep winning with it every time. Because otherwise mafia has to kill party members and can't focus on good players who aren't in the party/claimed roles they want to eliminate/their SK read But then again, if Greymist isn't going to let us lynch again, then mafia can pretty much do whatever the hell it wants... Let's set aside speculation if we can. The only thing we know is Keir has a low success modifier. And that is it... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 27 2012 09:41 Keirathi wrote: Wat...? It says ANY party that I'm in has a lower chance of success. That's pretty straight forward wording, and I (not should anyone else) have any reason to believe that it didn't apply day 1 for some unknown reason. So let's say (hypothetically) bringing you night one took us from 100% to 70% success rate, but you succeeded. But it could have been something like from 100% success rate to 10% to but you succeeded. Same outcome, but very different likelihoods of success... We can continue to speculate on this, but it just doesn't make sense to me why we should bring you today since we don't know that we'll have the same outcome this time around as last time with you in the party. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 27 2012 09:44 Promethelax wrote: Another reason I think Dieno makes more sense if there are rewards based on the player and not which quest they lead to victory he will get the masamune. Unless Greymist chose to disregard Chrono Trigger's max HP (and I believe this to be unlikely), 999 is the most Dieno has. Dieno has already taken in excess of 400 damage, and if he becomes party leader mafia will obviously target him. Given the amount of damage we've seen mafia is capable of, it is extremely likely that he would get killed in one night. Make Dieno party leader and even if he were to get the Masamune there is no way he'd have the chance to use it... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Did you get anything for being party leader this round? I'd certainly hope so given there's no lynch... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
##Unvote ##Vote: Hapa Although I would highly recommend keeping only confirmed townies besides yourself in the party, if we're not going to be allowed to lynch we might as well take some advantage of the party mechanic we're given to help confirm additional town. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 27 2012 10:16 Acrofales wrote: I'm not strongly opposed to you going along. I still prefer Djodref or Chronicler. I see no reason for you to be leader, though. Whatever these events do, it might be worthwhile to scum to sacrifice one to fail the event. We don't seem to be getting many lynches and already have Toad's head on the chopping block. Is there really a big difference between him being party leader, or going in the party, if in the event the party succeeds he comes out confirmed town either way? That being said, I do feel Djo is also a strong choice for fresh blood to bring. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
But please please please agree to send at least one new candidate in that we all can agree is very likely town. With the absence of a lynch, the party mechanic is all we have... Be back in a bit... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 27 2012 14:51 Keirathi wrote: Anyways, I've finalized my proposed party: Me, syllo, Oats, Djodref This is a party I find completely acceptable. Apparently no one else is too worried about your low success modifier... I'll cross my fingers and hope that the success determination mechanic is similar to what you've said + Show Spoiler + (I find it consoling that the more I think about it the more unlikely it feels that it's anything like what I proposed...) ##Unvote ##Vote: Keirathi Final answer. And in case you're wondering, the largest reason is satisfaction with your party selection. Confirming Djo as town is a good move. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
 | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 27 2012 17:27 Promethelax wrote: you are in this game. Don't you popcorn me. have an opinion, state it and play the damn game. should I claim my full ability etc. and why? Is Syllo being dumb on purpose? (no need for a why here, we'll find out eventually) You are in a better spot than I to know if claiming your role and abilities is appropriate. However, if Syllo is just going to RB you all game and you are town, that's two town whose abilities aren't being used well... Syllo definitely doesn't have a good read on you if he can't come to a conclusion on if you're scum without you role claiming. I could see it easily being the fastest way for him to determine if you're scum, but you also have 12+ pages of filter. I find it incredibly hard to believe he couldn't get a good read on you outside of your claimed abilities to date, even if you held back on your role information... But to answer your question: he's not being dumb. Enough said. And if the two of you are going to continue a petty exchange maybe taking some time to cool off would be best. There's a reason I popcorned. This has gone beyond being productive and devolved into OMGUSing... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 27 2012 17:45 Oatsmaster wrote: ITEMS MY BOY, ITEMS. Other than the fact that Djo defended you, which I think its his meta, is there anything else that makes you think he is scum? I think that Dien should be leader at least to see if he gets his sword back+if all town's healing is on him, he probably wont die You sure about that? Keep in mind he's heavily damaged, and Marv's reduce damage by half ability is gone. That's pretty huge... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 27 2012 17:58 Promethelax wrote: Dammit Syllo: I was about to accept that you had a good reason for your crazy tunneling which I could understand and we'd reconcile and wander off into the sunset holding hands or whatever. Now I'm back to thinking that you are crazy. If I full claim theoretically Syllo will back off and allow me to fully protect dieno from anything coming at him this cycle just as I intended to last cycle. I want dieno as the leader, Oats has confirmed that the reward was role based (I assume since he agreed with me that Deino would get Masamune), Syllo would you confirm/deny this as well please. So, just to be clear, if you do claim you could get Syllo off your back and convince him you're town? Now I'm a little confused, as this would seem to be best for us right now. I gave the noble "you know best" answer for claiming before, but honestly the ability you have already claimed is crazy op and if you are really town scum would be braindead not to RB or shoot you on a nightly basis. In this context, I can see where Syllo is coming from. Add to that that looking through your filter you seem moreso defensive than cooperative in trying to clear your own name in some spots. Hapa is right that you seem to kind of halfheartedly go after your scum suspects with no followup... It's clear that you aren't playing all that well if you are town. However, you outlined that you are going to have a different posting style this game. And some of your early posts seemed surprisingly opinionated to reflect a disinterested scum. And early interest in the game in fact seemed genuine to me... I've mislynched you once before and if you're town I'd hate to do it again .However, I can see where those accusing you are coming from. I can't imagine how claiming your abilities would be detrimental at this point. You have made it clear to scum that they are powerful, so if you're town you should fully expect KP or RB being directed your way as long as you should live anyway... Claiming imho could only help you to clear yourself at this point in the game. In conclusion: I can see what others do as to why Prox could potentially be scum, but I don't get the strong scumread that syllo does. Knowing nothing about Prox and his circumstances, I'd say slight scumread. As it is, I'd say null read. It is very plausible he is scum, but there are stronger scum prospects to investigate in depth imho. Between Acro/TheChronicler/Hopeless which is scum? Coming to a conclusion here, as one of them is almost certainly scum, is a better use of our time in my opinion. This is where I personally plan to devote some time tomorrow. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 28 2012 06:11 Promethelax wrote: well stop being open to suggestions. Scum must have some influence on this game. Get your butt in gear and make one town read on your own. This. Your relationship map and bowl should help you on your quest. + Show Spoiler + And yes. That's sarcasm. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 28 2012 06:25 Dienosore wrote: Unless I hear the majority of people telling me to change my vote, I have chosen TheChronicler based on my town read. Why are you insisting that scum must have some influence? Are you perhaps threatened by the fact that you don't think your viewpoints aren't being heard or agreed on by the general populace? Enough so, that it makes you want to reinforce to the admitted new guy that scum are constantly lurking around, so you can verify to yourself that what you are doing is actually working? You should really stop making your anger at me because I just wont fucking die so obvious. So you're saying you don't trust your own reads, and consider scum (who you've gone to no lengths to spot) are automatically a non-threat? Please play some newbie games after you're done here, so a coach can teach you how to play... As for electing you leader I've been thinking that having a heavily HP-damaged town get a item would make him a strong mafia target, and by electing you we'd lose the item and a "confirmed town." But then I remembered that there are several "confirmed town" 10X more useful than you. It won't be an easy decision for scum to kill you, and I actually would rather have you die than them. To that end anything that could make you a stronger target than someone such as Syllo or Keir is something I'm completely for. ##Unvote ##Vote: Deino However incompetent I think you are, I also have a town read on TC, and am confident that the party you've proposed will succeed. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 28 2012 07:24 strongandbig wrote: hey guys just caught up with teh threadzor so correct me if i'm wrong but we're picking dienosore to be party leader because he might get masamune? keirathi do you think it would help you at all to be the party leader instead of a party follower? also i think that hopeless is scum even though it turns out acro is 3p - some of the things that hopeless has done since being checked seem to me like scum in desperation like the whole thing about being on a party - this and hapa's thing and the chronicler all have done it - like i said to hapa before, i'm suspicious of anyone who says "put me in the party" instead of just relying on their townieness to be self-evident or whatever, because scum might have more information than we do and they might be starting to really want us to fail a mission some other stuff: like, seriously - what is the point of saying that last bit... then there's the fact that his response to a red check from tc was "bring it bitches" like, he answers the whole case point by point and then he doesn't address the check itself... tc's long case post was actually pretty bad, but after hopeless went through the case and answered it point by point, instead of actually addressing the dt check, he's just like "bring it" - that doesn't feel very town to me then there's this "im untargetable tonight" thing. i don't understand what he's trying to head off here - townies would use negative abilities on toad, and scum would use negative abilities on pretty much anyone other than h1 or toad. the only thing that seems likely to hit h1 is maybe another dt check, so i don't see how him making himself untargetable or telling us he's untargetable are helpful to town This case is pretty bad. The singlemindedness with which you push hopeless without any thought for how he could have town motivations for his actions is pretty suspicious... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 28 2012 08:04 Djodref wrote: Disclaimer: Dieno is already taken care of ! It looks like Dieno is a serious contender for the title of party leader today. I don't want people to waste heals or protections on him because I have already used a retroactive ability on him which totally protects him. I have already saved him during the second cycle I believe. So now you are free to use your abilities on someone else ^^ I aslo would like Dieno to consider taking me instead of TC on his party because I'm not fully trusting TC yet (hence my vote on Keirathi) but I'm not going to fight for it because Dieno's party is likely to succeed already imo. For what it's worth I also would prefer you to TC. But both of you are strong town reads for me atm. Is this another fake claim btw? If so, I approve. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
While you're here: StrongandBig is scum. Please discuss. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 28 2012 08:29 Djodref wrote: I'm not here I have to go to work. I was catching up with the thread after my morning shower and stuff... I have never claimed anything. I lied about the usage an ability that I could still have (hint: I cannot shoot anybody in fact) and I've managed to force iamp and Adam to participate. I really liked both their reactions and I'm not wooried about them anymore.It's not the case for S&B and VE. In our last game, S&B started to do some real townie stuff when he was on the verge of being lynched. My view on him right now is that he can and have to do better if he is town. But I don't have a strong scum read on him. Null for me atm. My problem is that I don't know how to force them to participate more. And, seriously, you can totally trust Dieno to me. This ability is for real. I didn't breadcrumb but you can see some hint in my filter for my D2 save. Don't worry about the lurkers. All you can do is encourage them to participate. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 28 2012 08:48 strongandbig wrote: what are you talking about, what singlemindedness? this is like the first time i've talked about hopeless... i mean, disagree with my case if you want, but how am i being singleminded or scummy here? I'll make a definitive case on you yet today. Just don't lurk too hard in the meantime. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 28 2012 09:20 Acrofales wrote: You feel like soft-defending H1? How about you hard-defend him instead. What the hell has h1 done that is in ANY way REMOTELY in town's best interest? So apparently pro-town = town, and anti-town = scum??? O.O | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 28 2012 09:29 Acrofales wrote: Dafuq you talking about. You attack SnB over having a bad case. While I don't find his case particularly convincing, I don't see any motivation for your soft defense of H1. Enlighten us. Calm your nipples. I'm working on my case now... As a side note, though: speculating on Greymist's counter is pointless. If I were Greymist, I'd leave the counter at one for three days just to fuck with us. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 28 2012 09:32 strongandbig wrote: i wasn't really trying to make a whole case it's just that the way hopeless responded to having a red check on him (back when a lot of people thought acro was town) didn't seem to me like how a townie would respond So how would it be different then? How, in your opinion, would a townie have responded to hopeless's situation? | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
In its place I provide a mafia (the game) favorite, a scum suspect shortlist: 1) Iamp - I have a good "gut feel" about this guy I guess you could say. But he still has yet to contribute anything meaningful, which earns him a spot here. Would be willing to give him more time to see if his roleclaim checks out. 2) VE - Shoot him dead. I actually think he might be more likely to be town than scum given his enthusiasm for playing scum. But if an elimination-based approach for finding scum is to work, he has to go. He has not posted enough to make a meaningful read... 3) phagga - Need to reread his filter at some point (but not something I'm focusing on today). He has been pro-town in his contributions, but I can't help but feel he is also "playing it safe" and doing what he can to fly under the radar... 4) Adam - lurker who might need to be shot too. 5) Kita - I'm inclined to believe Marv's read of 3rd party 6) Cave - This guy won't be figured out without getting vigi killed. Shoot first, ask questions later... 7) Z-boson - From my experience with him, he likes to play pretty safe as scum, whereas as town he is rather reckless to the point of being pretty easy to mislynch. He definitely is making his own reads and contributing to thread, but all his reads I would call "safe" ones in that he is targeting almost exclusively lurkers... Null read atm, even after looking into filter. 8) Prox - Tbh I don't know what to do with him. Syllo's input is definitely appreciated, but I don't see him as a strong scum read (closer to null...). 9) Strong - I had a strong scum read based both off meta and on filter. However, with meta differences explained, I'm inclined to give him more of a chance to establish himself as town before coming to conclusions. 10) Toad - Scum 11) Hopeless (maybe) - clearly anti-town, but I'm still not convinced that he's scum. Would even go so far as to say slight town read... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
My current conclusions: 1) Vigi shoot VE, Cave, and maybe Adam (in that order). 2) Kita probably is 3rd party... 3) Rolecheck Prox. if possible... 4) Toad = scum... And in case you were wondering, I would say that everyone not on that list is town at this point... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 28 2012 10:03 iamperfection wrote: And i cant believe you said something like this im gonna have to go through your entire filter when i have time That might be the first productive thing you've done all game... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 28 2012 10:01 iamperfection wrote: ya don't listen to this at all shoot the scum And which scum exactly would you propose we shoot then? All the people I proposed have a decent chance of flipping scum. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 28 2012 10:10 iamperfection wrote: Care to explain in what universe that it would be good idea that you think its a good idea to shoot ve if you think he is more likely to be town. He is gone. Absent. Nonpresent. I actually don't know much about his meta outside of what I've heard of his reputation here, so that was speculation. He could be town. He could be scum. But come endgame, there's no way of knowing. Therefore, he has to go. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
How the hell was I supposed to know you were actually coming back to post more than one-liners? Saying and doing are two very different things... Now that you've decided to show up, yeah. Let's not shoot you. Cave and Adam are people I stand by vigi shooting though. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 28 2012 10:21 VisceraEyes wrote: Good to know. So that actually IS really scummy. Noted. Correction: I'm a good town player when I don't drink while playing. I'm going to take a break from thread, and play damage control tomorrow. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 28 2012 20:32 phagga wrote: You have some nerve. I have not seen a single case of you this game, your filter is almost completely devoid of any scumhunting, and you go and lecture dieno on how to play? Dieno achieved something in this game that you have not yet done, he has established himself as town. That is already worth a lot for town. You may not agree with his methods of doing it, but he was one of the fastest established townies in this game. But you come in the thread regularly and have nothing better to do than to mock him. Do you think this is creating the kind of town atmosphere we need to win this game? What is the benefit for town of you calling him incompetent, bad and mocking his playstile? I don't see one. Ah, finally you make a case! Oh noes, you couldn't be arsed to make a case, instead you throw out this worthless list where you throw some dirt around with barely any explanation. Like I care. If you are too drunk to play, don't play. If you play, I don't care about your state, i will hold you responsible for your actions. Okay, regarding the first part (Dieno): I meant everything I said there. And while there was OMGUS language in there, OMGUS was a motivating factor of my decision, and in a strictly logical way. Maybe if you were to take a step back and recognize that this is not a standard game, you would come to understand that we have a crapton of "confirmed town" at our disposal atm. This is definitely not something you would see in your average game. As scum, you obviously are going to choose to shoot the best player of the "confirmed town," as in the guy who is most likely to spot who's scum. But what if I told you there was a way to keep our best townies alive by throwing a mouth-drooling "confirmed townie" in front of a bus? I'd personally be all for it, and if you took a second to actually consider the merits of what I said instead of go into full-on OMGUS mode, you should be too. For all we know Dieno could one-shot Lavos with the Masamune. Scum will have to actually seriously consider shooting him. I would propose that Dieno should fake-claim he got the Masamune in the case that he doesn't as it could draw fire away from the "confirmed town" we need to help us solve this game. Regarding my strongandbig "case" and my list: I already described why I strongly felt that strongandbig was scum, and why after some consideration I determined my read was off. As for my list, you could argue that I made twenty-two cases there. My list shows my read on everyone left in the game. The actual list shows where I feel the scum reside, while everyone not on the list I have pegged as town. Again, you go into full-on OMGUS mode without considering the merits of what I contribute. In this game establishing town is just as important (if not moreso considering the scarcity of lynch days) as finding who's scum. Lists are normally bad, but in this specific game I believe it's worth doing. Regarding "drunk play": I would not consider myself drunk yesterday. I would simply say a bit of alcohol led me to be less inhibited than I usually am. And here is how it affected my play: I did not edit my writings as I usually do. There is a reason why some of my posts come off as heavily edited, to the point where some suspect I've had help in some kind of QT to construct them.: I heavily edit my posts, as both town and scum. Yesterday, I didn't really edit anything and spit out the first thing that came to mind onto paper. I spent a little time looking at strongandbig's filter, got excited, and jumped the gun in making a case when I didn't take the time I needed to to consider if it had any merit. Similarly, the comment about VE was me thinking whether I could in any way determine he was town or scum, making some half-baked conclusions, then deciding he was a lurker, and finally thinking I wanted to shoot lurkers and VE was the lurkiest of them all... Didn't take the time to put my thoughts together and conclude if he was even a scummy lurker, or take time to consider we have very limited resources for removing players, just considered if removing him out of the game would make it easier for me to solve we should shoot him ASAP. And lastly: You certainly should hold me accountable for everything I post. But it is my hope that with this post it becomes clear where I was coming from with what I posted yesterday. With the exceptions of VE, I stand by the list I made. Strong is not the strong scumread I originally had yesterday, after reconsidering the circumstances, as I stated later yesterday. CaveJohnson and Adam remain at the top of the list for who I'd recommend we shoot. I consider them to be scummy lurkers. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
| ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 29 2012 02:09 phagga wrote: @Goodkarma, please explain what is scummy on Adams and Caves behaviour? In the case of CaveJohnson: This is a guy who has not contributed in this game, but maintains some degree of activity by prolifically spamming chat with substanceless one-liners. He fakeclaims abilities, and in general is anti-town. From my understanding from what others have said, he does this as both town and scum. I have in my notes two quotes that I found especially troubling: "Syllo has taken himself out of the running and we should respect that.": Scum-motivated for obvious reasons. "my intention is to survive to endgame...": Town should not be worried about this... Regarding Adam: His posts come off as more "pro-town," but looking at what substance his comments bring the main thing I got was that he is pre-occupied tunneling Z-Boson for making a poor case on him. And from what I've seen his activity is not going to pick up ever. He is far in second place compared to CaveJohnson for a good vigi target, but still is in the back of my mind as a potential scum trying to blend in. However, while we're on this topic it would be very helpful if Adam (or someone else) could provide some links to some of his games. I don't know Adam's meta, so having some insight into it could be helpful in getting a better read on him. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 29 2012 02:18 Promethelax wrote: yeah, if you want to know about how I safe claim as mafia I BC'd vet in my only late game scum game. I play it safe as scum. My role is a semi-watcher role and I plan on continuing to use it that way in the future. Claiming the other abilities and flavour just didn't benefit town in any way. I don't see why you think that is wierd and I'll attack anyone who seems scummy to me. I don't really care how close to confirmed town you are; you aren't confirmed and I believe you would play this out exactly the same as scum. The fact that no one else agrees with my paranoia means that I don't have to care and neither do you since nothing will come of it. I don't care about the other stuff you were saying (though some of it was scummy) but this is scummy as shit. We should be shooting the confirmed scum since we have no idea about lynches. Kill Toad. Given the HP mechanic this game, and the knowledge that we most likely won't be able to kill a player until several cycles later, I still firmly believe that we will have a chance to lynch Toad before he will have died from vigi shots even if every vigi were to focus fire him. And that will mean that all our focus on him will have been wasted... This is why I still am against vigi shooting him. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 29 2012 02:21 Acrofales wrote: How in the blazes do you have a town read on me? I claimed survivor.. I believe you when you say you're third party. I had you tabbed in my mind as neither scum nor a threat to town, and that's why I didn't bother including you... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 29 2012 02:45 Promethelax wrote: -sniped- if we don't get a lynch though we need to start that focus fire earlier. How confidant are you that we will get a lynch? (hint: I'm not at all) From the damage reports, I'm under the impression town has roughly 150 damage / turn at its disposal. From the flips, however, 600 HP seems to be a reasonable assumption for the amount of HP Toad has. (Following the mechanics of the actual game, I'd say he can't have any more than 999.) As such, I'd expect it to take at least 3-4 turns to kill him. And I strongly believe we'll have a chance to lynch within 1-2 turns. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 29 2012 03:05 Promethelax wrote: so what is mafia kp? Wanna share the things you know? How on earth would I know? There's a very clear divide between which people mafia is likely to shoot and which people town is likely to shoot. If you were to go to the damage report layed out by Dieno and do basic math, you'd come to a similar conclusion. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 29 2012 03:11 Clarity_nl wrote: Just know that scum killed marv in a single night when he had 550 hp. I'd say it's safe to say that all scum stacked on him day 2. And there's no way of knowing how overkilled he was... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 29 2012 03:24 Clarity_nl wrote: My point is town kp is probably higher than what you guys are suggesting, but I'm guessing a lot of it is 1shot stuff. All we have to work with, though, is the numbers we've seen from the past couple days... Everything else is just speculation. If we try vigi-ing Toad and get a chance to lynch him before he dies, it still would make the most sense to lynch him. And we will be left with a lot of wasted night actions that might have turned into a night kill... That's what I'm trying to get at but everyone here seems content to pretend that we're still playing a standard game. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
*That's what I'm trying to get at but everyone here still seems content to pretend that we're playing a standard game. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
| ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Toad very well could be lying. He could have 1 HP or 700 HP... There's no way of knowing. I say lynch him anyway. ##Vote: Toad | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 29 2012 10:13 Promethelax wrote: I'm writing up a GK case as we speak and it is long and, I think convincing. I'll be checking back to see it. This brings back memories of how you tried to get me mislynched in our newbie days... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
You'll just spam up this page and bury Prox's case... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
But I will look over what you said, and reply accordingly. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 29 2012 11:14 Adam4167 wrote: Relax. I agree GK is probably scum, him ignoring my my question on risk.nuke isn't helping that any. Just to be clear, a significant factor in my town read on risk had to do with interactions in the QT I share with him. I didn't deem it appropriate to explain my mason QT with him at the time, so I sidestepped your question. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
You're making a bad situation even worse. Trying to "redeem" deino's epic fail by assuming I must be scum, when Acro proclaimed himself 3rd party (as in: not town) is terrible... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
I, unlike you, am courteous enough to break up the bullshit you thoughtlessly spat out on paper. Part one incoming, with part 2 still being worked on. The sad thing is that it doesn't even require a whole lot of a response to shoot down, it's "but fucking bad." Yet, sifting through 43 pages of crap takes time... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
GK and how he feels about Sandroba and Syllo: A thesis in fail [QUOTE]On November 21 2012 13:06 goodkarma wrote: Okay. I'm pretty much caught up. I'd like to address several things. First: [QUOTE]On November 21 2012 12:16 Promethelax wrote: Clarity, i would agree with you if Hapa's reaction to Kier's questions had been what I expect from a town Hapa but it wasn't. My short list is a little bit shorter. Why would you vote anyone you don't have a town read on? Goodkarma: have you played any games since our Newbie Mini Misfortune? Hapa: what kind of player would get your vote? Not Kier, Not Marv...who? Keir: how many scum does it take to sabotage a mission? My guess is that even a single one will fuck us so a scum Marv would not need to pick any scummers. [/QUOTE] Yes. I had much better games after that. I hope there's no hard feelings for that particular game, as I played scum about as terribly as I possibly could clamming up when really saying just about anything would have prevented my early lynch. My other two games: In NMM XXIV: The hero that saved the town from a 5-3 MYLO to win the game. In LVII: Mafia suicide bomber. Could have played better but mafia got the win anyway. Rockband mini: I replaced out day one as scum. Never actually checked to see how it ended. Who I would nominate (if not myself): As of right now, my support for a party leader (besides myself) would be sandroba. Sandroba seems to be adopting a solid strategy at present. I wholeheartedly agree with going with the most townie individuals, even if they are inexperienced. We don't know how the minigames are going to work yet, but we do know with 100% certainty that scum will count against their success. In a game where we don't lynch, all we can do is establish who is actually town. It is absolutely ridiculous to nominate people who have both strong scum and town games and are hard to read day one (thinking of Marv). I also completely agree with the suggestion that's been brought up that parties be suggested by those who are hoping to be nominated up-front. This is especially important if we are to nominate a townie who isn't as experienced. Goodkarma for President: As your leader, I will do my best to further the policy of choosing the most obvious townies as detailed above. Along those lines, I would elect to choose both sandroba and promethelax for my party. The third is still tentative, as the game has only been going for a short time.[/QUOTE] Just wanted to highlight what is essentially GK's first post in this game, it supports Sandro while presenting himself as an alternate candidate. Weirdly runs against someone who he would include in his party which makes no sense from a townie perspective, does he think his reads are better than Sand's? So this, to me, is a point in the scummy direction. He wants to be leader over Sand but has a town read on Sand. I wasn't voting Sand because I did not have a town read on him but if I did think he was town I would want him to lead over me any day. Sand is one of the best players this forum has. [red]So essentially, you’re saying there’s no town motivation for including Sandroba in the party, who at that point in the game I had a town read on? Did you look? Did you fucking try to find motivation in my filter, like at all? I’m sorry, but I get a bit frustrated when people don’t learn from their prior mistakes. Again you make a terrible case against me, and again I’m forced to make a ridiculously long response that could have been avoided if you were a more diligent reader…: [QUOTE]On November 22 2012 15:59 goodkarma wrote: [QUOTE]On November 22 2012 15:18 Promethelax wrote: GK: 1) I miss being called prox <3 2) Your proposed team is butt fuck bad. Including Sand makes voting you as bad an idea as voting Sand. If I was confidant that Sand was town I'd vote his ass over yours any day (no offense but he is a beast and you are one of the top newbs to come out of the games when I was new. But so are Keir and Hapa). 3) Oats isn't a town read, he is an 'excited to play mafia' read. He reminds me a lot of my first game where I posted all of the posts even though I was mafia and being quiet would have been smarter. 4) you called Djo a weak town read for you and said you couldn't see this team changing. Sorry bud, not a chance you'll get my vote. I like you as a person but this election ain't for you. [/QUOTE] Just to be clear, my choices weren't specifically made because I just have to win an election. I'm honestly not that upset if I don't win, as long as what I feel to be a strong town team party is established as an outcome of the discussion. To that end, I didn't put winning chances into consideration when determining my party... You are right that being quiet in this particular setup is terrible for mafia. But at the same time I had trouble supporting a party full of inactives and semilurkers, as there's no way to definitively determine that they are town either. I chose to eliminate anyone I deemed difficult to definitively read. That included: trolls (Kush and friends), hardcore lurkers (such as Adam), semi-lurkers (such as yourself, at the time I made my picks), and hard-to-read vets (such as Marv). That narrowed the field of who I could choose substantially. I do very much appreciate the concerns you have voiced over my picks. I would say it was largely via a process of elimination. But I would ask that if you are so adamently opposed to them that you explain to me how the alternatives you support are better suited. Kitaman has done nothing to establish he's town. He's said he wants to be leader, and that's honestly about it. I suppose he's made a few jabs at really safe targets too (such as kush...). Deino is largely an unknown. Acro is someone whose meta and story I can't presently follow. He's clearly angry, but as a townie or scum I can't decide at present. You seem to be an avid supporter of him, so I would be interested to know what quality he possesses that has you so confident he is town. As for Prox: I was thinking you would make a good candidate, but your activity waned. Not only that, but since proposing some solid setup ideas, you have fervently supported Acro for reasons unbeknownst to me... And have been opposed to Sandroba, again for reasons unbeknownst to me... I would really appreciate clarification in both departments. I definitely took a hardline, rigid stance on my choices, but that doesn't mean I won't change them if you propose a strong alternative. As it is, however, you have yet to do so.[/QUOTE] So, as town, I had no problem with my town read leading. In fact, my motivation for running was to establish a system that others would follow. Openness in describing which party members the party leaders running would take… [QUOTE]On November 21 2012 13:50 goodkarma wrote: [QUOTE]On November 21 2012 13:46 Hopeless1der wrote: [QUOTE]On November 21 2012 13:41 goodkarma wrote: [QUOTE]On November 21 2012 13:36 Hopeless1der wrote: Greetings all. You'll notice that we're currently in [url=http://chrono.wikia.com/wiki/600_AD]600 AD[/url] Guardia. You're also playing a themed game hosted by none other than Greymist. Please keep that in mind. (Hi Mementoss, you're cool too). Basic vote mechanics for this game seem to boil down to -identify town -vote town to lead the party -Profit -Kill Mafia/Lavos -More Profit What are people's thoughts on claiming that their character belongs to the 600 AD era and selecting the leader based on that. (YOU ONLY CLAIM "600 AD") Possibly selecting the entire party from within the era, assuming enough of a pool emerges. I linked Chronopedia above in case anyone feels the need to check it out. ~17ish native characters from 600 AD. I think our hidden numbers are influenced by the current era, and events can have varying degrees of success or failure depending on which specific players (not just town or scum) are in the party. Come play the setup speculation game with me please![/QUOTE] No. Setup speculation is for chumps. I'd like to hear your thoughts on who we should choose for a party leader and why.[/QUOTE] Choose town. Win events. Kill Lavos. This has already been covered. I don't have any strong townreads yet. So in the meantime, I want to plant some ideas about how the setup works because you can bet your ass its going to matter.[/QUOTE] Of course it will matter. But talking about how certain deliberately hidden variables could or could not work that are outside our control is a waste of time. The one thing we presently can control is who we choose for our party, and that's where are focus should be. So please stop shitting up the thread advocating setup speculation.[/QUOTE] says the guy talking about setup. Okay, saving this, if he goes back to set up it is just shitting up the thread. [QUOTE]On November 21 2012 15:45 goodkarma wrote: [QUOTE]On November 21 2012 15:30 Keirathi wrote: [QUOTE]On November 21 2012 15:26 goodkarma wrote: Keir brings up a couple good points. Perhaps our host could explain?: Are chosen party members kill-immune? If not, what happens if scum kill a party member?[/QUOTE] We don't even know anything about HOW the scum kills, other than it doesn't follow the traditional "1 KP = 1 dead". We have an HP value, and have no idea how much HP damage the scum can do in a single cycle, how they will do it, or who they can do it to.[/QUOTE] But we have HP. Scum must be able to remove it somehow. And if we have let's say a small hidden value score lead over scum, it would be important to know if scum can or cannot off people in the party to tip the scales against us. Especially if a medic-type role exists for town. I feel this is a very relevant and answerable question to ask the host. But I must agree with oats that outside of a response from him it's not a good use of our time to discuss further.[/QUOTE] oh hey, look, more set up speculation. Alright. Reasonable, there were reasons for this. But besides set up all GK has talked to up to this point is being pro Sand / kinda pro me and advice for Djo and Dieno (who clearly needs some damn advice, like SUBMIT YOUR FUCKING PARTY YOU FOOL!) So, determining how the game mechanics work, and how best to use them, at the very start of the game is dumb??? The questions GK ask aren't very town oriented, scum needs to know how to fuck with the party and his questions to the mods are: [QUOTE]On November 21 2012 15:26 goodkarma wrote: Keir brings up a couple good points. Perhaps our host could explain?: Are chosen party members kill-immune? If not, what happens if scum kill a party member?[/QUOTE] "Hey guys: I know some townies might be kill immune, could I know who? Thanks lulz." Town also needs to know this… Fucking idiot. [QUOTE]On November 21 2012 17:07 goodkarma wrote: @Oats: I suggested that if I am not elected Sandroba is my current alternative pick for party leader. That should say something about my current read on him. But I will briefly recap: His ideas for how to produce a successful town party are ones that I agree with. That others apparently are familiar with his meta, and that he is either a strong town or weak scum player is icing on the cake. That being said, before I would place a vote towards him I would need to know which party members he would choose and why. -snippy- [/QUOTE] So GK has 1) a town read on Sandro and 2) will not vote him unless he reveals his party. Know who he voted though? [QUOTE]On November 23 2012 07:36 Mementoss wrote: Vote Count Kitaman27 (5): CaveJohnson, Kitaman27, Promethelax,phagga, strongnbig Goodkarma (1): risknuke Hapahauli (3): Hapahauli, Iamperfection, Clarity_nl, Dienosore (1): Dienosore Syllogism (14): Toadesstern, Acrofales, BioSC, Hopeless1der, djodref, keirathi, goodkarma, Adam4167, Syllogism, Oatsmaster, Marvellosity, TheChronicler, zboson, sandroba Remember that voting is mandatory. All votes must be in by Thursday, Nov 22 11:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)[/QUOTE] Do you know why? I do [QUOTE]On November 23 2012 01:05 goodkarma wrote: [QUOTE]On November 23 2012 00:18 syllogism wrote: I can't explain it better than I have. It doesn't feel like he cares about figuring things out and there is no sense of urgency despite him being one of the most likely people to be elected. He has made no attempts at figuring out who mafia is and it seems to me he is hiding behind the fact he doesn't have to. There is being lazy and then there is just not caring. My other reasons rely on my knowledge of how he thinks and some of the things he has said feel off; can't elaborate more on that. Yes, I might gain more votes by making my reads public. I would also gain more reads by pretending to be completely confident in my reads; I'm not. I have not finalized my team yet (right now I've 2 whom I'm likely to take and a few possibilities for the third) and may not finalize it until the end. An honest assessment as to why I'm not going to is a combination of considering it optimal play (if I get the votes), being lazy and because sometimes my town reads rely on things other players may find flimsy or the reasons are otherwise difficult to explain (tone, whether the person feels earnest). If I were mafia, there would be absolutely no reason not to make the list of people I intend to pick public. [/QUOTE] I question if this is in fact true. Being held accountable upfront for the people you choose is important, as is producing an open forum of discussion for others. Such discussion provides valuable information about others' thought processes that would otherwise be lost. Also, from a scum perspective, a blind ticket can sometimes be more appealing for people to get behind than a known ticket (And for this reason being secretive would be a good play as mafia.)... And yes, I'm droning, and, this certainly is obvious, yet it beared discussion due to how absurd the bolded portion of your quote is. I honestly don't care if you find your reasoning for one or two members of your selected party could be flimsy to others. Give us a chance to stack up your chosen party against your reads. Pretty please. As for what I plan to do: I hereby concede my campaign. There did appear to be some going interest in it, and I will certainly take future note of it for the future. However, I will not have the appropriate time to gather the momentum I will need to come from behind, and it is important we consolidate our votes as the deadline approaches. I will be voting for syllogism. I am really displeased with his determination to keep his party secret, as I have already outlined. However, he is hands down the lesser of the three (fairly evenly distributed by votes) evils. Of Kita, Sandroba, and Syllo, I choose syllo. I would further recommend that in the interest of consolidation as soon as possible we bring it down to two people. Having three people stay in the running in the long term will be much easier for mafia to manipulate. ##Unvote ##Vote: Syllogism[/QUOTE] GK votes for the lesser of three evils, a guy who is doing something he thinks is scummy. He votes that guy over his town read. Uh-huh... At this point I had determined Sandroba wasn’t to be trusted. I only had a town read on him early, and became suspicious after he afk lurked. I mean, if you were to read my fucking filter you’d know this... I actually don’t get at all what you’re trying to get at below… You go back in time before the vote, and then make believe that I didn’t have my reads change over time… I’m not going to address your discussion here, as you clearly didn’t take the time to get your facts straight… [QUOTE]On November 22 2012 00:01 goodkarma wrote: [QUOTE]On November 21 2012 22:50 sandroba wrote: I wouldn't mind syllo being leader either and if I win I will give him veto power over the people I choose. I'm fairly certain he is town at this point.[/QUOTE] I found this particular quote to be upsetting. I understand, on the one hand, if you have a town read on syllo. But I don't understand why you would be willing to go so far as to allow him to veto your picks. If you're not that confident in your choices, you should as well just have him pick for you... Or better yet, let him be party leader. As current "frontrunner" I would like a response from you on this scandal. Are you looking to concede and have syllo run in your stead, or was this merely an assertion that you are super-confident syllo is town?[/QUOTE] Here is one of the few posts that GK has addressing his thoughts on Sand before the vote. He is upset that Syllo would get veto privilages because he does not have a town read on Syllo, the gentleman who ended up with his vote. So what other reasons did GK have for not voting Sand? [QUOTE]On November 22 2012 12:11 goodkarma wrote: My current thoughts on party leader: So... It would seem that syllo has yet to make any additional moves, and sandoba, while back, hasn't really made that much of an additional comment on his party he's taking with him. Firstly, sandroba has now made it clear that he strongly believes syllo to be town. I do not have the "meta" read priveleges that he does, and as such, cannot make this read. Yet, at this point I would go so far as to say that sandroba has put so much faith into syllo that a vote for either is semi-interchangable. Between the two of them, I see one party leader ticket. I don't have presently a town read on syllo, and so am less comfortable voting for Sandroba than I previously was. Sandroba, who was someone I was very excited about having as party leader with his solid early ideas for how to select his party, also has yet to provide some idea of who he's considering at present for his party. This is another point that makes me less comfortable voting Sandroba. I'm still leaning towards sandroba being town, but I question why it is he has become fairly quiet relative to the beginning of the game. So, in Summary...: While many here give Sandroba/Syllo respect for being a "vet," it's incredibly hard for me to sort through a sea of one-liners and go, "That guy is definitely town..." Actually, insert Marv's name here too as he's guiltiest of this... -snippy- Mafia manipulation: Many of you seem to fear that it will be super-easy for mafia to hide in a setup where they don't necessarily need to spend all that much time faking scumhunting. But when you blindly vote for one guy you are missing an amazing opportunity to spot them out. By voting for a known 4-person party (where the party leader presents his choices) you are doing a better job of forcing their hand. They will be trying to steer the vote towards selecting their own members, and their voting should reflect that. As an added bonus, this allows you to spread your risk. You can determine if the choices of the party leader match up to your own, and at least to some degree, determine how likely it is that the party has a mafia member in it. By voting for a singular leader, it's an all or nothing proposition. They get their candidate in, or they don't. Either way, we get far less information from that. We will not be able to narrow down what went wrong should things go wrong. Is it a scum party leader with questionable choices or a town party leader with questionable choices? The only way you'd know for sure is to lynch every party leader who fails his mission... This is a system I am wholeheartedly opposed to. In Conclusion: Nothing in this game is certain, but what I am certain of is that there's not a snowflake's prayer in hell I'm voting for either sandroba or syllo (or should I say sandollo?) until they provide more information on who they're bringing and why. I wasn't altogether serious about "running for office" before but I am now. I am unhappy with what I see and will be making a post outlining who I'll bring and why within the next couple hours.[/QUOTE] Right, Sand and Syllo are too comfortable with each other. That leadership bid I made was a joke but it isn't a joke. Don't vote Sand or Syllo until they tell us who they are taking. I'm with him here. I get it. But his vote ends up on Syllo. And his proposed party from his new campaign? I present exibit a) [QUOTE]On November 22 2012 15:10 goodkarma wrote: Okay. To the best of my ability I have selected a team. I would like to take a few seconds to note that I was very disappointed my shortlist wasn't longer. Many people here have not taken the effort to establish themselves as town. I'm not by any means the perfect reader in this game, but by making a few more reads on who you feel are viable candidates many of you could have made it easier for me as I could have had more insight into your thought process. I will not lie. None of these I have a "definitely town" read on. However, given the context of their play so far, I feel their play is more likely town-motivated than scum-motivated, and the best prospects for being town. In no particular order: 1) Oats: This is a guy who has played unafraid of what others think of him, making a mediocre (at best) case against clarity and chiming in every chance he gets. He clearly is excited to scumhunt, which is what I believe to be the only reason he placed a vote on toad. I visualize a scum in this setup taking more time discussing who's town, which is definitely the "safer" route. 2) Djo: I can't say that I have a very strong read on him, but I'm leaning towards town. He has proposed his own ideas for how to run an election. A scum could be just as forthcoming, however. Beyond that, I have to go off of his reads: he doesn't trust acro and prox, and thinks oats is town. I am in general agreement there. Definitely my weakest read. 3) Sandroba: However much I feel he's playing lazy (he is), I keep coming back to his filter. I do currently believe that he is town. Everything he has done to date has been to provide clarity and insight into reads others have had and the general mechanics of this specific game. He could do this as scum, but I am inclined to believe he could have been a little less helpful and gotten away with it as scum as well. I look forward to seeing his proposed party as this will provide the information I need to help solidify my understanding of his thought process and determine if he truly belongs on this platform. But as it currently stands, I believe him to be town, and am including him on my platform. A brief note on Dieno: He is playing so badly that many would consider him likely town, as newbie scum tend to play far more cautiously. However, the persistence and singlemindedness with which he's been pushing his campaign (even after repeatedly being warned) and shitting up the thread leaves enough doubt in my head to exclude him. As a newbie town trying to improve he would have changed his gameplan long ago, as a troll he would be more, well, trolly, and as a newbie who doesn't give a shit he would have given up. How he's been playing is just plain sad, to the point where I wonder if what he's been doing is deliberately anti-town as a scum. He most definitely could be town, but I would rather not take such a risk on such an unknown. I would not say these names are 100% rigid, but I would have to hear a really damn good argument for me to change this lineup. I look forward to hearing what all of you have to say.[/QUOTE] Note that he would require a ‘really good argument' to change any of these players. So he still has a town read on Sand. [red] And yet I didn’t say my picks were immune to change [QUOTE]On November 22 2012 19:52 goodkarma wrote: [QUOTE]On November 22 2012 18:52 phagga wrote: @Goodkarma If you trust Sandro so much, why do you not vote him? If GK thinks Sandro is so townie that you includes him in your team, why should I vote you instead of Sandro? What do you say to the following: You are scum, you include a town sandro to make his team more townie, hoping to catch more votes like that.[/QUOTE] I answered all of these questions if you were to actually take the time to read my filter... As for what I think of Sandroba currently, I can understand the selection of Kush, but I don't like it. If Kush is in fact telling the truth I find it hard to believe there are that many people lower than 30 HP in a game that has 999HP max (I know this is very speculative but still...). As such I would expect him to have a contingency plan if Kush were to die... I readily admit that Sandroba may not be the best candidate as he's been playing. Since I nominated him, he's been extremely stingy with the details of who he plans on choosing and why. Further I missed there was a role claim by Dien... And I will admit that by adopting a process of elimination-type process it is possible that I overlooked better qualified candidates that are possibly in the "semi-lurker" position. Prox especially comes to mind. But I would like to say that while this is definitely in part my fault it is additionally the fault of those people who have decided to sit back and let things play out without voicing their opinions. It has made it that much harder for me to find three strong candidates. I will reassess my choices, and have a finalized list here in the next few hours. I'll try to touch up on the thread tomorrow as best I can, but will be rather time-limited. Currently the two I object most to on the Kita ticket are Kita and Acros. Kita especially as he has done very little to even try to establish himself as town, and, as the leader of his ticket, that worries me. A lot...[/QUOTE] So, firstly, no GK did not answer these questions in his filter. He Proposed that we shouldn't, as a town, put all ours eggs in the Sand/Syllo basket. But he puts Sand in his party. One basket. One government. But now Sand 'might not be the best candidate' though nothing about who would be the best. If he is no longer the best candidate why is he still a top three town read? I dunno and I doubt GK has a reason either. Did you miss this part, from the fucking quote you used. Are your eyes really that bad that you can’t include stuff that’s right in front of you?…: “I will reassess my choices, and have a finalized list here in the next few hours. I'll try to touch up on the thread tomorrow as best I can, but will be rather time-limited.” [QUOTE]On November 22 2012 20:43 goodkarma wrote: [QUOTE]On November 22 2012 15:53 syllogism wrote: Right now I would say there is a >50% chance that sandroba is mafia. His interest in the game feels superficial and some of his posts feel off. For instance him saying that he is "torn" about clarity_nl as opposed to actually stating whether he now thinks it is more likely that he is town or mafia. His explanation as to why he thought clarity was mafia is also pretty weak by his standards. Pouncing with one-liners on weak stuff? That probably applies to many, many people in every single game.[/QUOTE] Missed this discussion from syllogism on Sandro... He is no longer on my list. Oats is on both of our lists, and upon skimming his filter I found this: [QUOTE]On November 21 2012 15:44 Oatsmaster wrote: Dont guess Djo, how could you know how mafia KPs work in this setup. Does scum have to send in actions before they know who the party leader is? or after the whole party is made? I think you misunderstand me. My point is that we should focus on completing the tasks since that is the only way town gets an advantage. The best way to complete the tasks is the send the 4 towniest players[/QUOTE] I know it's petty semantics, but since sending in actions is a matter-of-fact thing, I would expect a town to ask if actions were sent in before or after. Since it is a disadvantageous thing for scum if actions are sent in, asking if they have to be sent before party leaders are announced makes sense. So What Now?: Oats is definitely a bit of a try-hard newbie, and honestly that was part of what I felt was townie about him. The biggest issue, however, is that being a tryhard this game is pretty important for the scum wincon, and as such I would expect most scum to be active members (likely more active than town). Between this and that he was included on sandro's list, I am inclined to remove him as well for the time being. I'm not saying he's scum, but I was too eager to bring in people I saw as active and acting pro-town while he could just as easily be acting as scum in this way. Oh wait? Does that mean that you are about-facing and saying Sandroba is scum? Not necessarily. All I know is that there is enough doubt on him, and since I nominated him he has performed very poorly for town. In my opinon town has not done enough to differentiate itself from the scum and that is where my problem has been. These two are going to be replaced with your average town representatives, which at this point of the game I am confident is the semi-lurker demographic. It's not what I would have hoped for, but it looks to be the safest demographic to tap from, especially since more than half the current players reside there...[/QUOTE] I can't snippy any of this, it matters. 1) Sand is no longer on his list 2) Oats is removed due to being related to Sand 3) but Sand isn't scum. I'll let GK tell you what to think about this himself: [QUOTE]On November 24 2012 14:33 goodkarma wrote: [QUOTE]On November 24 2012 14:29 TheChronicler wrote: [QUOTE]On November 24 2012 14:15 Z-BosoN wrote: [QUOTE]On November 24 2012 14:11 Djodref wrote: [QUOTE]On November 24 2012 14:02 Z-BosoN wrote: @TheChronicle You keep saying I'm not reading, that people are not reading, that people are stupid, or whatever, but you fail to supply evidence. I've searched your filter yet again and couldn't see where you responded to this: [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=102#2037]http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=102#2037[/url] At least in a way in which I could recognize it as an attempt. Can you please quote the part where you replied specifically to the post I linked?[/QUOTE] @Z-BosoN He has already addressed it. His plan was not based on the fact that people were going to chose other people based on their townreads, but based on "certain reads". So there is no apparent contradiction but it reinforces my conviction that he made this plan to not be elected with. I'm not saying that the plan is necessarily bad, in fact I'm quite interested with his idea, but what I'm sure is that his plan was not well thought through, it doesn't look like he really believes in it and it's was made with the goal to not be elected. [/QUOTE] This makes zero sense to me. Why would he pick three people if not people based on his own town reads? What the hell do you/him mean by "certain reads". What other reads are there when choosing the "team pickers"?[/QUOTE] Lol, you have to be scum. There's absolutely no way I can see you as town. I sat here for like five minutes trying to find the contradiction, then I realized this was just so much easier to explain if you/acro were scum together. [QUOTE]On November 24 2012 05:22 Z-BosoN wrote: [QUOTE]On November 24 2012 05:12 TheChronicler wrote: Again there's no contradiction and I have a hard time believing acro is that bad. Where do I say I'm convinced my plan was bad acro? I still think its what we should have done and what we should do. However, I'm not so blind as to stick to my plan if everyone else thinks its horrible. Do you expect me to scream and shout shitting up the thread? No one liked my plan, I gave it up because shitting up the thread with discussion about it is stupid. Kind of like what you're doing right now... Where did I say the people I chose would be my town reads? You're grasping at straws here trying to make me look bad. I can't help but look at the person who I think started this and then dipped from the thread, Z-Bo[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]On November 24 2012 04:02 Acrofales wrote: Oh jesus. This feels like finding Drazak (not Drazerk) was scum in Acme. The contradictions just keep piling up. Plan: [QUOTE]On November 21 2012 12:25 TheChronicler wrote: [QUOTE]On November 21 2012 11:59 Oatsmaster wrote: random fluff post, Lotta Brazilians :O[/QUOTE] Useless. Don't post like this. [QUOTE]On November 21 2012 12:14 Clarity_nl wrote: I do not have any kind of read on anyone yet. He would be a good choice because if he's scum it'll show comparatively to his town play.[/QUOTE] Who is he? I'm assuming Hapa. ---------------------------------------------- I'd like to be the party leader. I'm an unknown (hopefully) and no one will make stupid bullshit meta reads on the leader that would probably be worse than a coin flip. That's pretty much the only reason I want to lead. I don't even want to pick who will be the three on my team, which takes me to the next part of my pitch, and something I hope whoever is leader uses. If I'm leader I don't want to choose the three people with me. I want to choose three people to choose three people who will be on the team. They can choose themselves if they'd like. Why do this? Because it gets us more information. If I'm not chosen leader I'd like the person who IS chosen to implement this system. We still get information from who the leader chooses, AND we get information based upon who the three chosen people choose.[/QUOTE] Summary: leader dishes out TOWN reads and then each town read dishes out town reads. [QUOTE]On November 24 2012 02:50 TheChronicler wrote: 1) I think I said this, but I don't believe in ever giving town reads because that just says to scum "shoot these people" [/QUOTE] [img]http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/837/f64/b8f/resized/da-fuck-meme-generator-da-fuck-297845.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] Really, no contradiction? At all?[/QUOTE] Really? Two people jumping on the same thing and both being equally wrong? I've given a lot of leeway with reading for this, but I can't find anything in my posts that say I would choose town reads. Why try and make something so easily checked like that up? Something so purposefully misleading only has scum motivation.[/QUOTE] Association based scum read on two unflipped players? Even a scrub like me knows that's sloppy play... -_-[/QUOTE] So we have a strong town read turn into a null read and an association tell on another player. If Sand is not scum how is Oats scummy by association? I don't get it. Are you getting somewhere with this? Does attacking my play make you feel better? What is my actual scum motivation for removing Oats then? His new proposed team is Djo Phag and Dieno (based on RC) He dropped a scum and a now 'confirmed' town from his list together. So who does he replace them with? A (now) 'confirmed' town and Phag. If GK is scum (something I am more and more sure of, than I think looking at Phag again might be worth while. Weee association. Firstly, I don’t see any scum motivation in this. Why is it any less likely that I would do this as town? And while we’re at it, let’s get to another point. It is very possible only one scum would be needed to ruin an event. So why is it suddenly you seem to assume for this entire argument that I as scum would feel I needed to bring a scum buddy along? That finishes cycle one- | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
| ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 29 2012 12:11 Promethelax wrote: Attacking me instead of the case on you. Good play right there. You are still scum and your response to this case and your play confirm it. Go through NMM XXII post-game and tell me how your play now is any different than it was then. I am both pissed and disappointed right now... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 29 2012 12:18 Promethelax wrote: fix your tags so I can read anything in there. I would but I don't know where the error is. I'm going to respond to everything you put out, and will worry about formatting after if I still have time tonight. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 29 2012 12:51 Promethelax wrote: Thankfully GK doesn't actually have responses so they are easy to find. I am also amused by his 'I edit a million times' thing versus lol fuck you guys just deal with my fail tags. What about my case is strong and why does it convince you? I have some reservations about Syllo. I'm not sure how I feel about his sudden town read on me (as evidenced by me not being RB'd last cycle) I think scum would have wanted to RB me anyway since they know that I am town. I'm pretty confused about not being RB'd at all. I do edit my stuff heavily. Doesn't meant that I spout massive quotes and make text walls for my scum suspects to have to deal with when making cases against them... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
My name is Fiona. I have a vigilante-type role. Night 3, I was responsible for 150 points of damage on CaveJohnson. So here's what I propose: 1) You see if anyone comes forward to counterclaim the damage. 2) If someone does one of us is scum. Lynch accordingly. 3) If not, I am incredibly tired of having to deal with ignorant people... I'm going to role claim now, so that later as confirmed town I'm entitled to draw giant pictures of dinosaurs, and run around failing parties like I've been lobotomized. See you guys later after I've calmed down. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 29 2012 13:15 Oatsmaster wrote: Lynch GK. Seriously, what makes you so much better than Dieno? He is basically confirmed town, you are on the verge of scum. If you are town, why is Dieno confirmed and you are not? Not even going to go there. I would suggest to you that you consider the veracity of my claim before you go lynch-happy. And also consider that Acro is not town. He claims 3rd party, but he could very well also be scum. And both could plausibly ruin the success of the party. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 29 2012 13:01 Promethelax wrote: here: GK is scum because of his flipping and flopping on Sandroba, Syllo and Djo without reason. GK is scum because of his attempts to direct blue actions. GK is scum because he has a town read on people he wants to be shot GK is scum because he provides useless lists full of so many reads that he doesn't have any ideas of his own. GK is scum because he has knowledge of the scum kp. that is the case. I honestly should have spoilered the rest of it. Attack the length all you want but those are the points you need to address which you have still not addressed. Also note that the case has already convinced at least two of your 'town reads' so maybe think about it. My case clearly served its purpose to push you as the next major scum. Now if we still have cops you'll be a done deal because they will either check you or me and either realize I'm town or you are scum. Either way we get to lynch you next time we have a chance. Thanks for this. It is ten times easier for me to reply to. Briefly: "GK is scum because of his flipping and flopping on Sandroba, Syllo and Djo without reason." I give reasoning in my filter for my reads. As for flipping and flopping, both town and scum change reads... "GK is scum because of his attempts to direct blue actions." Have you seriously never been in games where town suggest who would be the best people to shoot, or RB? These are actions that are commonplace topics of discussion for town... As you can see from my roleclaim, I had a special interest in where vigi shots were being placed. Based on flips, I came to the conclusion that my damage output was not going to kill anyone anytime soon, and that I would be most effective if others were shooting in the same general direction..." "GK is scum because he has a town read on people he wants to be shot." I explained this. Whether or not you believe me is up to you. "GK is scum because he provides useless lists full of so many reads that he doesn't have any ideas of his own." In a game where establishing town is also an important component to the game, I would argue that lists are useful. Hate it all you want, but this isn't a standard game. "GK is scum because he has knowledge of the scum kp." What? Are we discussing my earlier discussion on damage reports. If so: On November 29 2012 03:10 goodkarma wrote: How on earth would I know? There's a very clear divide between which people mafia is likely to shoot and which people town is likely to shoot. If you were to go to the damage report layed out by Dieno and do basic math, you'd come to a similar conclusion. As for convincing others, people are lazy. They like to look at things and go, "well it's a long detailed case, the gist of it looks okay, it must be right." Without actually digging into filters and checking the facts... Seriously look at what you did in NMM XXII and compare to this game. You made an equally bad case there... The only difference here is that 1) it's waayyy longer and 2) I know your play better now and understand a town prox is capable of making terrible cases. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 29 2012 13:26 Adam4167 wrote: Why are you so mad at Dieno? He made a mistake, it happens. You were sent on a mission with 2 semi-confirmed townies, and being in a better position then all of us due to knowing your alignment, you should have been able to make a definitive call as to whether Acro positively or negatively affects missions. I feel like the right response would have been to come in, be adamant that you are town and try and dump this mess on Acro. Yet your first post after the mission result is: "So now what?" does not feel like the right reaction to someone that feels like they've just been 'framed' by the mission failure. I did affirmatively say it was Acro. I've said it several times. Why would it be my first reaction to "dump it on him?" Acro claimed 3rd party. He's clearly not town. How in any way shape or form did it suddenly become obviously my fault? | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 29 2012 13:40 Promethelax wrote: I actually quoted that from the conclusion of my first case. Seriously: reading=good. You did not give reasons for your flip flopping on Sandroba and Syllo that were viable at all. Define "viable." Town and scum both change their reads all the time, and nowhere in the first part do I see anything indicating clear scum motivation. You tried to direct town kp AWAY from scum. That is not a town action. Are you discussing toad? If so, there are several others here that thought that shooting Toad was retarded. And look at where it got us? We wasted several town actions for nothing... I hate to say I told you so, but... I told you so. I don't believe you. You aren't kush. You don't get to do this kind of thing. Well, congrats. You're going to be short one town... You would have a point if your list wasn't 11 players long and all null reads. I have a point because everyone not on that list (with the exception of Acro) I have pegged as town. That's narrowing the field substantially. yes, that point is weaker than the others but it is an ancillary part of the case. None the less you did seem to have fore-knowledge of scum KP. It's not a weak part, it's a non-existent part to your case... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 29 2012 13:45 Promethelax wrote: It didn't. This is a strawman you have been attacking since I made my case. Note how I didn't mention that at all in my case? Good. Your reaction to being on that failed party though was not town motivated. Adam did a rather decent job of explaining it. If I'm this "clear scum" you seem to believe I am then answer me this: Where did those 150 points damage come from? I have yet to hear any kind of counterclaims... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 29 2012 13:55 Promethelax wrote: Could be what you actually did. If CJ is town and has some kickass abilities (which he certainly claimed) hitting him as scum isn't that bad a move. It also leaves you free to claim that shot to 'prove' your townieness since there is a plausible explanation for town to do what you did since Draz is notoriously hard to read. Scum have kp, scum also probably have damaging abilities. Could have been either of those. I've vigi'd before, and I have absolutely no problem doing it again. My ability is a bit weak, and it requires applying stacks before I can inflict damage, but it has infinite uses. I've already told mason QT what I did last night. I can vigi said person tomorrow. And even you must realize how dumb it would be for scum to shoot CJ, who is infamous for making up "kickass abilities" on the spot. He's a guy that's hard to read, and always anti-town. Scum would have no motivation to get rid of him. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 29 2012 14:03 Promethelax wrote: Post your mason logs. If scum had a 3p read on CJ (which I did) it would make perfect sense. Post my mason logs? I'll leave that up to syllo or risk, as you could blatantly claim everything I say is made up. I've told them of my ability as well as how I've used it. I'll let them clear me. As for 3p read? Exactly how many 3p's you think there are? Do you not believe Marv when he says Kita is 3p? I do... And then there's acro who claimed 3p... But whatever, I'm done arguing here. Let's let other people weigh in here. I'm tired of arguing against someone who clearly already has me wrongly condemned as scum in his head... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
| ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 29 2012 14:03 Promethelax wrote: Post your mason logs. If scum had a 3p read on CJ (which I did) it would make perfect sense. Here's the part where I claim the damage I will be doing to CJ: 43 goodkarma 11-26-2012 01:51 AM ET (US) I'm pretty confident at this point that all of town is blue. I mean, look at how many role claims we've already had in thread... I'm not worried about drawing scum eyes on me. I haven't done the best job of establishing I'm town, so honestly if they choose to shoot me over a syllo or oats or dieno, I would be quite happy. 42 risk7nuke 11-26-2012 01:48 AM ET (US) You shouldn't talk about coordinating vig shots. If mafia is bluehunting it will draw eyes onto you. 41 goodkarma 11-26-2012 01:35 AM ET (US) I'm a 600 AD character, and it doesn't look like I get any bonuses either. At this point, it looks like I'm committed to either 100 or 150 points on CJ at day's end tomorrow. From everything I've read in his filter, I see no compelling reason not to do the full 150 pts of damage. I won't post the entire QT as it contains information related to risk's role and flavor, and I'm not going to be the one to give that out. If there's something specific you're looking for then let me know. But the CJ shot damage is discussed here. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
There's a few things you could do to validate my claim.: 1) I already claimed my target in Mason QT. Wait until tomorrow to see if my claim checks out. 2) Bring me along in a party with three "confirmed town." If you can fail a mission and still get a lynch, clearly the consequences aren't that terribad... And what's more, I'm town so you won't even have to worry about that in the first place... 3) Continue to angrily OMGUS me, waste vigi shots and/or a lynch, and be down one more town. Having a claim that is verifiable, this is a very stupid option. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
| ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 29 2012 11:01 Promethelax wrote: [/big]-snip- in cycle two the first thing GK does is based on unconfirmed meta. Remember that town read? Yeah, neither does GK. You know what he says though? a pressure vote. Pressure! He called some one "a clear choice as a lynching candidate for today." and referred to his vote o that player as a pressure vote. Okay. So who is GK lying to? Himself or town? This was to encourage him to become more active in thread. The thing you conveniently neglect to mention is my vote never went off of Sandroba (until I thought he was going to be modkilled). As such, I don’t see any inconsistencies here. Again, though, spell out for me the scum motivation. You seem to be obsessed with looking for inconsistencies that both: 1) don’t exist, and 2) say nothing about how I as scum would gain anything from acting as I did… GK defends himself from pressure which Acro places on him y saying as I think you've seen that is not what GK says. Here and now GK's insistence that he is a careful player who edits his posts over and over means that what he says is not a mistake. Which means the contradictions in his filter are not a townie being silly but a scum being scummy. So, as this happens GK gives himself an out: He allows himself a way to vote away from Sand which is just a sheep vote. A pre-excused sheep vote. That is totally a thing townies + Show Spoiler + never Really? Townies never sheep? This is an absolutely ridiculous statement I will just leave it at that… And I clearly explained there were other aspects that led me to suspect Sand was scum. and Toad (the confirmed scum) is useless. Distanced from but not calling scummy. Who could want to do that? Oh right, scum. but two seconds later: So what you’re saying then is that town could never act like this? I ask for us to consolidate between two choices and say that Sandroba is a stronger scum read… You’re drawing connections where none exist. what changed? nothing. GK doesn't want you to lynch Toad but you could. So I elaborate on why Sandroba is a scum read. And then I tell why Toad could be scum for the same reason… Toad didn’t have the “meta read” behind it the Sandroba vote did so in my mind it was a weaker lynch. And you make it sound as though everyone thought Toad was certain scum, and only scum would steer away from his wagon. We didn’t know he we scum until the red check the following day… Honestly, as scum, I could have done whatever the hell I wanted. I could have bussed the crap out of Toad to gain town cred, and it wouldn’t have mattered since he was not going to be lynched over Sandroba… In other words, why is it in any way relevant that I chose Sandroba over Toad? This is pure WIFOM… oh hey, now he wouldn't even be upset if Toad was lynched but sheeping is so easy. This is a double bus attempt. With two scum players up for the lynch GK has to choose one of them to go after and it seems that Sand is the obvious one since he has so many town votes on him. But GK also realizes that he cannot support Toad too much since he is also under fire. GK is clearly scum, town have scum reads that they want lynched GK has nothing. he'll lynch Toad and Sand if that is what we need. He (and the rest of the scum team) know that Toad and Sand are liabilities. They know that Those two will not make it to endgame so they have to bus them early and bus them hard to have any chance of getting to the late game themselves. Look at this distancing vote, look at it! tell me you don't think that is scum motivated. GK getting in early on a lynch that won't happen. Safe. So I changed my vote to Toad last-minute, as I earlier said I would, because I was under the understanding that Sandroba would be modkilled, and didn’t realize if he was modkilled he would be replaced… It’s almost as though… I did exactly what I said I would, and then you shit all over what I said with your own made up speculation… Maybe I don’t care because they’re both “confirmed town.” Also, I switched off Keir immediately after directly asking him about his low success modifier. scumtell. Doesn't care about the leader. Iamp, remember your IRC game with Marv/Thrawn/Kush etc. the one you don't want to talk about? Yeah I know you remember it. Now tell me you disagree with this read. Also: which of Kier and Oats claimed to have a low success modifier? Hmmm...right, Kier. Now I respect Kier's reads over Oats and that could be a reason to vote him but a coin flip is not. and GK knew about it. Oh yes he did: Now, GK seems to have forgotten how he felt about Syllo in the early game. He is, retroactively, very pleased with voting Syllo. He wouldn't vote Djo (who he still has a town read on) because: I was skeptical that syllo was town, and then after becoming a “confirmed town” that successfully lead a party, I found it reasonable to trust his judgement. Is this really so difficult to figure out? Am I the only person that did this? No, I wasn’t. Sci-Fi channel has some conspiracy shows you might be able to help out with… And now Djo isn't a town read. Totally unexplained but no longer so town that you would bring him in your party. Great. Read the quote. I dare you to. Did you see the words “town tell” anywhere in it? Maybe Djo still is a town read. Don't shoot confirmed scum with your Vig abilities. Does anyone agree with this? It is scum as fuck. The idea of having damaging abilities and using them to flip lurkers when we have confirmed scum is terribad. I was not the only person opposed to shooting Toad. I believe Keir says it best: On November 29 2012 05:44 Keirathi wrote: Good god no. Don't be fucking stupid Hapa. We already know that scum had a bus driver. H1 claimed an ability that makes him completely untargetable. We have no idea what kind of protective roles scum could have. By making that claim, you've basically guaranteed that they'll use everything at their disposal to keep him alive, and waste what...2? 3? 4-5? town abilities in the process. It may have been a good idea if you didn't scream for everyone to do it, but now its just god awful retarded. This isn’t a standard game. I’ve already discussed how it was likely we’d get the chance to lynch toad before KP could kill him, and be forced to lynch him anyway… And by the way: I told you so... When GK is pushing a not Kier/Dieno leadership he says: or, as we call it in mafia language: claiming to have not read the thread. This was after Dieno claimed being healed to a point where he was not worried that he would be 1shot. after about a million posts on how the leader gets items GK can't figure out a difference between giving Hapa a place on the team and a leadership role. GK wants the item to go to hapa instead of the 'confirmed' town Once again, later in the same cycle, GK once again forgets his own reads: GK on Djo town->scum-town. Reasons given: none. Nowhere do I ever call Djo scum. Good job in making up stuff, and putting words in my mouth. look at that role fishing, needs to know if he can kill Dieno during the night. And Djo is super townie bro now. Djo had already fake-claimed once. I wasn’t sure if I should be taking him seriously. Further, having us focus on “confirmed town” that actually are capable of helping us find scum is the priority, so even if he was “fake claiming” we would be spending our resources better. And let me beat you to this: “OMG he just said he’d like to push Deino over a cliff. SCUMMY AS FUCK!!!” I have discussed my reasoning for this in great detail. Note: This isn’t a standard game: On November 28 2012 06:37 goodkarma wrote: So you're saying you don't trust your own reads, and consider scum (who you've gone to no lengths to spot) are automatically a non-threat? Please play some newbie games after you're done here, so a coach can teach you how to play... As for electing you leader I've been thinking that having a heavily HP-damaged town get a item would make him a strong mafia target, and by electing you we'd lose the item and a "confirmed town." But then I remembered that there are several "confirmed town" 10X more useful than you. It won't be an easy decision for scum to kill you, and I actually would rather have you die than them. To that end anything that could make you a stronger target than someone such as Syllo or Keir is something I'm completely for. ##Unvote ##Vote: Deino However incompetent I think you are, I also have a town read on TC, and am confident that the party you've proposed will succeed. We now move on to another point: What GK feels about Lurkers and why that makes him scum We begin with this: reasonable because of course we can't do shit to make them play, don't worry about them. Even though I just said we should vig them over confirmed scum. Don’t worry about them as in lurkers are gonna lurk… Time is better spent going after scum suspects who will actually talk back to you. Really not that hard to understand… And I’ve already discussed why vigi-ing Toad is stupid. Hell, we saw first-hand why it was stupid. Hence why this whole “He didn’t want to shoot Toad. Therefore, he’s scum” argument is stupid. Note: This isn’t a standard game. HP mechanics change the optimal way of playing The case that never was GK calls SnB scum here: and promises a case a few times, here though he is working on it: it turns out there was no case on SnB: Didn’t I already discuss this particular point in great depth? I’m thinking I did… Tell me why exactly I would be more likely to do this as scum than as town, given the motivations I previously discussed. just a list of half (HALF) the players left in the game and why they are scum who need to be shot. I never said my list needed to be collectively shot. I have explained to you why in this particular setup list posts aren’t bad, as what’s not on the list is just as important. Everyone not on the list, minus Acro, I have as town. This, in fact means, that in addition to establishing who’s town, this list narrows the field of who to investigate. Note: It’s not a standard game. look at those directions to blues: shoot three guys who (though lurky) probably at least two of them are town. Calls out 3p, calls the confirmed scum scum and says to rolecheck one of our own blues which would clear me and give us no new useful information, a red check is >>>>> a green check. It did occur to you that we're probably all blues this game, right? And that many of us (myself included) don't have a good read on you. Rolechecking you wasn't a bad idea. Remember how we weren't suppossed to care about lurkers because they would sort themselves out? Again, niether does GK, those lurkers all have a decent chance to flip scum. Errr...wat? Hitting lurkers with Viggiies is the eliminate coin flips. Not probable scum. What I was getting at was wasting your time poking at non-responsive lurkers in-thread is a bad idea, and vigi shooting scummy lurkers is a good idea. Honestly. Not that difficult to understand. And zero inconsistencies… Also GK calls VE probably town and says to shoot him. This has been brought up before but yeah...GK=scum. I explained this. Honestly, of this long-ass 43-page post you made this is the only argument I feel is at all relevant. [i]And I’ve already explained it. and this, which as myself and others point out means he has some idea of the scum KP. Though it could be guesswork it could also be outside knowledge. If he wasn't already scummy as fuck this might not be a slip but with GK playing as he is I read this as a scum slip. I clearly explained that my knowledge was based off flips and damage reports in the fucking quote. Seriously, how dumb are you? In conclusion: GK is scum because of his flipping and flopping on Sandroba, Syllo and Djo without reason. GK is scum because of his attempts to direct blue actions. GK is scum because he has a twon read on people he wants to be shot GK is scum because he provides useless lists full of so many reads that he doesn't have any ideas of his own. GK is scum because he has knowledge of the scum kp. Sorry for how goddamn long this is. But eh, there wasn't much I could cut. It was all relevant. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Chrono Trigger Mafia: It isn't a Standard Game | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Below is his case post from NMM XXII, for your reference. I just want to point this out: He is fully capable of making terrible cases of great length. I would like to encourage all of you to carefully go through the case he has presented, my responses and filter, and think for yourselves.: + Show Spoiler + On July 31 2012 18:33 Promethelax wrote: If I missed anything I'm really sorry, this took up 27 pages in word so I'm pretty sure I got it all but something may have slipped through my fingers. Here is my original case on Karma. Although he says it was thoughtless and without merit it still convinces me. Since this case he has continued to play in a way that makes him seem scummy to me. IN this post which follows on the lack of NK he says which is odd given that he had been playing as if he was sure he would live to the morning and this is a really subtle way to say to people “I'm town too, I'm scared of dying” without coming out and saying that you are town. He follows that up with where he adds fluff to the thread because it is “all the rage” he also talks about the lack of night kill in a way that reminds me of my MTG game where scum tried to both emphasize and ignore the lack of a night kill. (this second point is essentially a gut feeling). His case against me, now that I look at it more deeply is totally empty. Here it is. I know it is obscenely long don't worry. It is easy to simplify. There are three points. 1 the use of 'a' instead of 'my' 2 I told him not to do something that is actually against the rules 3 my overuse of the word town and 4 OMGUSOMGUSOMGUS seriously that is the entirety of his case against me. The only point which might be valid is the third but it was a joke (one I now regret obviously) since saying I was pro-town without being pro-town was how Kier had caught me in XIX. I honestly thought the use of town beers and a town line instead of town circle made it really obvious it was a joke. I should have known there were secret Romanians on TL Mafia. So karma: out of those three points one is pants-on-head, one is semantics and one is me being dumb enough to joke around. Where is this case you don't think I can respond to. You have talked about my posting habits as a possible fourth point but I can't do anything about that. I'm here while I am home and awake and that will continue until town wins or I am lynched/nk'd He follows all of this up with a decent case against the same lurker he wanted to lynch d1. Cases against semi-lurkers are the easiest to make as mafia and tunneling one player gives you an easy out when you are wrong about anything else. This play continues to read as scum to me and, therefore, ## Vote: Karma His line of logic in that case, as well as this one, seems to revolve around what he feels looks scummy rather than what is in fact scum-motivated. In addition, looking at some of the accusations he makes I seriously question how closely he looks at filters before firing accusations. This is why I am so disappointed... Honestly, I expected better of him by now... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
1) My actions day one some people may have trouble with. I spent a significant amount of time discussing game mechanics. Get over it. This isn't a standard game, and it is 100% relevant to have some working knowledge of how the game works established up-front... 2) I had a town read on Sandroba early game. It evolved into a scum read by vote time. I have clearly explained the how and why. It's up to you if you believe me. But keep this in mind: Why would I as scum feel compelled to include him in my party early game? Wouldn't it make more sense that I would have tried to distance myself from him from the outset? This is what I've done in my scum games... More or less not even interact with my scum buddies... Further, I have explained my motivation for running for party leader was tied to setting up openness about who would be in party leaders' parties. I didn't care if I won, which is why I had no problem including Sandroba early game when he was a town read for me. 3) The list post, while normally bad, is fine in this setup. This isn't a standard game. Feel free to hate it all you want, but it is a sensible thing to do when establishing town (in addition to finding scum) is also important to winning. 4) My actions on SnB I've already explained. Ask yourself why, as scum, I wouldn't just push an SnB case anyway. Anyone with any common sense would know that doubling back in the way I did would attract a ton of attention. I was less inhibited, not drunk. There is a difference, and what I did was generally rational. However, I wasn't putting my thoughts together as I normally do and just spouted what came to mind on paper... Whether or not you believe me is up to you. But as scum, I would have to be really dumb to do what I did here. You could argue the same as town, I suppose. But if you were to look at this game and compare against my scum games you would notice another thing: I am actually trying to actively participate. This is my town game, and if you were to stop and look you should be able to get a town read from this. I would never do anything this reckless as scum. Honestly, as scum I probably just wouldn't have posted at all... 5) I was not super-responsive to the failed party because from my perspective it is super-obvious that Acro affected the outcome. Even if others had suspicions of me, it should have been super-obvious to them that this was a good possibility. Yet everyone seems to overlook this outcome... 6) I would have to be pants-on-head retarded as scum to target CaveJohnson. How could anyone here believe any differently? And as of right now, still no one has counter claimed the damage I did to him. 7) My vigi shot can be used repeatedly. I can still claim my shots in Mason QT without scum knowing what's coming, and can verify my claim accordingly... 8) Feel free to include me in a party with 3 "confirmed town." As town without any kind of "low success modifier" role flavor, the party will succeed. Those are the main points that come to mind. If there's anything else that you think of let me know. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 29 2012 22:49 Clarity_nl wrote: You know, I don't understand you making comments like this after addressing everything in his case. If his case was so terrible wouldn't everyone agree with you, and you wouldn't have to address it? Your disappointment seems forced. I don't see why you're so insistent on bringing up a case prome made on your 6 months ago in a newbie mafia game, and compare it to this case now, other than to be able to say hey look guys, these situations are similar on the surface and I was town then, so I must be town now! If you were town you would've just said: Prome your case is rather bad because XYZ and then move on. Instead you were kicking and screaming on the floor all night, and now that you've finally addressed the entirety of his case you are suddenly disappointed. How would I "force" disappointment when he has done the exact same kind of thing the last time I've played a game with him and roled town? And clearly town shouldn't fight back when someone makes a strong push to try and get them mislynched. Yes, that was sarcasm... If there's a particular point you feel has merit in Prox's case that I haven't addressed fully provide it to me. Otherwise, all you're doing is speculating, and there's nothing I can do for you. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 29 2012 21:50 Acrofales wrote: Point 1: your vigi claim is neither here nor there. Sandro's flip proves scum has role-based KP powers. That means scum could equally well claim a vig hit. Especially on a dubious target like Drazerk. You saying scum has no reason to hit Drazerk? I beg to differ. SnB+me really really really wanted Drazerk dead in Caller game. Now that may have been a bit of a personal vendetta, but Drazerk has proven to be OP in themed games regardless of his alignment. He acts like a complete idiot (he isn't one, just acts that way) and plays the game as if it is his personal playground. As scum, the motivation to kill him is pretty much the same as town's: he is thoroughly unpredictable and that can be pretty scary. Point 2: I don't know what you're using to support this conclusion. We had 2 party selections before the lynch. We succeeded in one and failed the other. We now have a "hidden lynch". It makes me suspect effects like pardoner and doublevoters are in the game, and these effects might have been outted explicitly in a votecount, but not in its current format. I would NOT conclude that we get a lynch regardless. Other than the possibility for lynch-tampering mechanics I fail to see the problem of the lack of a votecount. Sure, it's a bit of a hassle, but as long as everybody has to vote in the voting thread, we can all keep tabs on what's happening. So... taking GK along on a party and running the risk of a failed party (note that I still have not delved into his filter, so the only info I have to go on is my null read from D2 and my rough impressions as I was reading the thread since then)? Bad idea. Same as taking me along D3 was a bad idea. I honestly have no clue what my HSM is. Greymist left the possibility open that I count for scum. The "I count for 0"-possibility was also left open. I said not to take me because we don't know what it takes to succeed at an event and I want town to succeed. With Keirathi (low success modifier) and me (potentially 0 or negative success modifier) both on the party, it is possible that GK is town and just shit-outta-luck, but I see no reason to take him on another party and possibly have that one fail as well. @GK: I am still going to go through your filter, but I don't recall ever bumping on something you wrote and thinking "damn, GK is town", while there have been plenty of red flags. Does that point directly to scum? No. However, it definitely does not point to town. Step it up. When 3rd party players are looking more townie than you, you're either doing it wrong or are scum. Prove to us it's the former rather than the latter. Point 1: Why would scum focus any KP whatsoever on him when he isn't amongst the "confirmed town" that are being brought in parties??? This makes no sense to me... Point 2: Speculation on game mechanics... This gets us nowhere. And regarding your question: This is a valid point. I will be trying my best to get out some scum cases in the near future. I really can't provide any good excuses, so I won't... My vigi role claim should provide some proof that I'm town. In an ideal world, I would have shown I'm town by playing much better than I have. But the prevailing theme this game seems to claim blue actions or be on a successful party and become confirmed town, and I have no problem going along with it (however "cheap" it may feel)... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 30 2012 02:39 phagga wrote: As i indicated, I hope that more than 3 or 4 votes shouldbe enough to be on the safe side. Keir and GK have both 2 votes currently, so 1 or 2 more players should be enough IMO. I will have an updated set of reads ready by late this evening... I fully expect no one will take them seriously, and will scrutinize them to determine new and creative ways to push a mislynch on me. I claimed a confirmable role, and I told you that I can still vigi subsequent cycles. So even if you were to distrust my original claim, it should be possible to confirm me in subsequent cycles. That I'm pretty much the only proposed alternative makes little sense to me. I know that to this point I haven't played very well, and I can understand how people would feel I'm scum, but I have a confirmable role... Weird. Honestly, I have no problem being lynched, if that's what it will take for tonight's reads to be taken seriously. I will bestow you with the best I can provide tonight, and hope for the best... Allow me to help move things along: ##Party Leader: Keirathi ##Lynch: Goodkarma | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Clarity, Oatsmaster, Dienosore, Keirathi, Syllogism: “Confirmed town…” TheChronicler: believable claim, a sincerity that leads me to believe he's town... Toad – Scum, obviously. Z-Boson – Lurky, about to be replaced. From what I’ve seen of his game, he plays much more wishy-washy as scum and tries moreso to “blend in” than give definitive reads. Then again, this was in (I think?) his first newbie game (NMM XXIV). Whatever the case, I know that his play has evolved significantly since then, and that if he was scum his play would be possibly craftier. But I do like his closing list post. I would lean towards a (slight) town read on him at this present point in the game. We will know more after his replacement (hopefully) does a better job of being active. + Show Spoiler + (And as a side note, I’m a little sad I couldn’t play a full game with Z-Bo… Playing with him in NMM XXIV was a blast )Kitaman – For being a strong town player, he doesn’t seem to be dedicating much effort into playing this game. Honestly, does anyone NOT think he’s 3rd party yet? His most recent post about Acro though does raise my eyebrows quite high though… Why does he take such a sudden interest in Acro??? Is it because he has to get him lynched as a 3rd party objective? Heavy speculation I know, but the thought crossed my mind… I mean it’s not as though Kita’s done much of anything all game to help us… Just as he’s pushing for Acro to full claim, I’d propose that it’s important for him to full claim, for the same reasons he listed for Acro. CaveJohnson – Ridiculously anti-town, lies constantly about his abilities, but hard to read because of the consistency with which he does it… That pretty much sums up his play… That he claimed to damage Toad with some super-powerful OP ability doesn’t mean he’s town… I’d say if Acro were to claim his HP, maybe there could be some means of determining if his claim were even plausible after Toad’s flip. But really even that is speculative, as Acro isn’t someone who we know we can trust presently… As it stands, there’s really not much we can do with him. He’s not a strong lynch prospect, but I’m still not against him being a decent vigi prospect. Even then, though, I don’t feel he’s the best priority right now. This is different than my stance before. Details below: While making this list post, I’ve thought of it this way: I am of the belief that CaveJohnson would be just as likely to be playing this way as scum or town. So how I look at it it’s a (assuming 5-member scumteam) 5/25 (20%) chance he’s scum from the outset. It could be the case but it’s inherently unlikely… As such, there are better vigi targets. Hapa – I honestly don’t know what to make of this healing situation. Firstly, I don’t see how town or scum would be likely to damage Hapa. Secondly, I don’t see what Hapa would have to gain by lying about either being damaged or healed… And this I believe to be the major point: even if he were scum, why would he have any reason whatsoever to lie about being damaged or healed? Pity points, I guess??? I see zero motive for doing so, and as such I believe Hapa’s damage and (lack of) healing claims. The circumstances for them may be unclear, but in the absence of motive there’s really no reason I can see to not believe Hapa. Regarding Hapa’s play in general: It’s undeniably “off” from the town Hapa I remember that tunnel drills scum to death. But then again, I see clearly pro-town qualities to his play. He is providing scum reads and doing + Show Spoiler + (at least imo) I’m not 100% familiar with his scum play but from what I’ve seen from a couple of games where he’s played scum (Mario mini, liquid city), he takes on a more informal tone in his posts and is a bit more trolly. He has a more serious tone this game, and while I would not consider this alone a reason to call him town, it is something else worth considering. I would love to see a game where he played scum well, as I find it hard to believe he got a “well-respected scum game” from these two games… All in all, I have a town read on him. Iamperfection – Players such as him are incredibly hard for me to read… In fact the only thing I can really say from what I’ve tried to gather from his meta is that he is super-spammy as town (in Mario mini) and a less spammy as scum (NMM XIX, GSL mini don’t remember the number). As it stands, I’m trying to sift through a sea of one-liners to find posts of substance. I clearly recall in the early game, he had a really ridiculous “You know I’m town, right?” remark that Acro hammered him for. While I really didn’t feel it was productive, given how he plays I couldn’t call that alignment indicative. As it stands, he does seem to be showing what I consider to be genuine interest in the game (with intermittent non-sequitor remarks…), asking relevant questions to try to peg scum. I would like to see more “case” posting from him, but I’m not holding my breath… Leaning town. Prox – There’s a certain zeal with which he pushed his cases when we first played together as town in NMM XXII. Not saying that our play hasn’t evolved since then, but I do find it incredibly hard to believe that, however bad, as scum he could be bothered to write up a 43-page case against someone (me). I guess it could be he really really hates me … But I’d assume it’s more plausible that he’s passionate about finding scum this game. And that’s not the kind of passion you typically find from scum. I’ve taken a chance to look at his scum game in NMM XIX, and it’s also notable that he is far lurkier that game. 18 pages’ activity, however, in his filter presently this game, and there’s definitely some substantial scumhunting in there. I’d say that’s at least some indication that he cares. Add to that that he has a plausible roleclaim that I’m inclined to believe. I have a town read on him.Hopeless – At this point I’m having a bit of writer’s block mulling through everything… But I can say this: Hopeless tends to play a far lurkier game as scum. Also the effort he puts into defending himself and the transparency with which he’s explained his scummy actions (such as lack of scumhunting) I find to be town characteristics. I have a slight town read on him. Although if he is to convince others he isn’t scum, it would be a good idea for him to pick up on the scumhunting… risk.nuke – This seems to be a favorite topic of a few people here for a potential lynch. He definitely hasn’t been very useful for town, and his scumhunting is rather lacking, but I’m not convinced that makes him scum. A large part of my town read on him is his roleclaim in mason QT. He was incredibly indignant about how reserved I was with communicating with him, and as he came to understand it was uncertain his claim implied he was town I felt he was genuine in how he came across. Another reason I believe risk is that I have never seen a setup where masons are scum aligned. And honestly, from a logistical standpoint it would make little sense as it’s a power that really wouldn’t help scum much at all. And from this perspective, I find it unlikely that he is lying. I am rather thankful that he was given the mason role, as I will admit that from his filter it would be very easy to mislynch him. And lastly, I am unsure as to the full line of reasoning for why he chose me the first cycle. I will, however, say that I find it believable that as town you would bring in the person you vote for party leader, as that’s clearly one of your town reads. He definitely could have used his role differently (as a way to try to confirm and vigi kill scum reads), but he didn’t. Traditionally, a mason wouldn’t have a vigi kill power, and I could understand how he would not think to use his role in what is (arguably) the stronger way of confirming and killing scum… I have a town read on risk. Djo – I really should have given his scum game more credit. I didn’t realize until looking at Mario Mini that he had a formidable scum game. However, I still have a town read on him. He had been eager every step of the way to get himself established as town. Even now, when it would be suicidal as scum to be elected to a party, he’s excited for the opportunity. I simply don’t see scum doing that, as being the weak link that fails the party at this point in the game means certain detection and death. Adam – I really don’t like the way he’s played this game. And the only scum game I could find he lurked until he got modkilled, which really doesn’t tell me much of anything… He shows an active interest in the game, asking reasonable questions, but his only “case” seems to be on Z-Boson who he seems bent on tunneling. I remember a person or two commenting on how it was inaccurate he was spending most his time tunneling Z-Boson as it was only something like two posts. But looking at his sparse filter, they are the two-three posts of the most substance. He made one or two comments about Sandroba for his lynch, but beyond that, all he’s given us is Z-Boson is a prime scum candidate and no one else really is… Tunneling is something both scum and town do. However, Z-Boson is an easy target that has had lurker issues similar to Adam. Imho, it’s a bit scummy to only focus on Z-Boson, even after he’s said he’s getting replaced… All that being said, I have a null read on Adam. Outside of Z-Boson, he has generally acted pro-town and nothing else appears to be scummy. Acro – Has generally acted pro-town, and has claimed 3rd party. Kita, however, has brought up the good point that we have no idea of Acro’s win condition or if he can be trusted. Unlike Kita, the most peculiar thing I’ve found about Acro is how actively invested he seems to be as 3rd party. This doesn’t make sense to me, unless if he wins with town. And if he really is 3rd party, he should have a different win condition of some kind… It doesn’t quite add up for me. He genuinely seems to be trying, and I can’t quite figure out why. He needs to roleclaim if town is to trust that he is an asset and not a liability going further into this game. I also have not ruled out the possibility that the reason he is so proactive after claiming 3rd party is that he actually is scum. Nothing that I can presently find tips me towards distrusting he’s third party, but it’s in the back of my mind… My Scum Reads: Sorry that this section isn’t longer and more detailed. I may elaborate more at a later point in time if people demand a “definitive case.” What makes them top suspects is that almost everyone else’s alignment I have deduced as discussed above. Combined with the scummy behavior they exhibit, I believe they have a very strong chance of flipping red. 1) phagga – I like Hapa’s case on him. Phagga has indeed been “playing it safe, and has not been aggressive with pursuing his reads. It’s the kind of laziness and indifference I’d expect of scum. His defense to Hapa’s case was short and sweet and unconvincing too imho. I’m not going to go into much more detail right now other than to say this: Hapa’s case has merit. Maybe you guys should actually take some time to pay attention to it… Perhaps he hasn’t been “red checked” like Toad, and he hasn’t outright said he’s scum, but his play is consistent with what I’d expect from scum. By process of elimination, he is a top scum suspect that needs to be further investigated for next lynch. 2) strongandbig – I jumped the gun on this case before. I looked into his filter and I noticed that he had a pronounced difference in his post count between this game and his town meta. Then I saw that he had excuses for his absences, and that he was genuinely busy. He has definitely “blended in,” taking no stances I would consider brave or new. And while he has excuses, he still has been pretty lurky, and this does match his scum meta. Also, two things I consider possible scumslips: “phagga is probably town, but I'm not confident enough to agree with putting him on a party yet.” This remark has been referenced before, but this is something I don’t see a townie motivation for saying. There’s a pronounced difference between “probably town” and “maybe town.” You vote in your strong town reads, so this doesn’t quite add up to me… It’s at the very least an odd statement if phagga were to be lynched and flip town, but I would argue it would be a damning statement if phagga were to be lynched and flip scum. Another thing that was odd to me was that he was pissed about the 100 points of damage he took. How could you be mad about this when it’s pretty clear that you’re a decent lurker shot? Not clearly scum motivated by any means, but still it felt a little odd to me since only scum needs to worry about surviving as long as possible. 3) VE – Has pretty much only lurked until recently. Has recently pushed a case on me. Scolds Prox for making a case on why I was scummy rather than about my motivations then does the same with his own. He has done absolutely nothing to demonstrate that he is town, and further, pointing out scummy actions rather than scum motivated ones on town players is a commonplace play for scum. I have ruled out almost everyone else from this list as either town or third party. That only leaves lurkers for this third spot… VE fits the bill of a scummy lurker, and should be considered for lynch after phagga and strong. Some might say something like, “But he’s only been active a short time give him time…” And I’m not opposed to that. He will have some time to attempt to prove he’s town as phagga and strong are first on the chopping block. By far my weakest scum read, but a scum read nonetheless. 3, alternate 1) CaveJohnson as I described before is a very hard one to read since he is so consistently anti-town. However, he belongs on this list as he very well could be scum for reasons already described. 3, alternate 2) Adam could be scum. He’s a null read lurker for me atm... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
| ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Scum should be scared of roleclaiming this game. By fakeclaiming a role with so many blue powers out against them they are running a respectable risk of being spotted. Even with a claim that exactly matches their real abilities, they might be found out using their abilities on targets that wouldn’t make sense from a town perspective. There might be a “reward” of greater trust to help curtail that risk, but still, claiming a role only draws attention and scrutiny. Something scum doesn’t want in this game… As such, I am FAR more trusting of the roleclaims that have been brought forward than several of the people here (most notably syllo). Quick note about Post Count: I know some of my reads have some dependence on “post count.” I am fully aware this is not THE indicator that someone is scum, and that scum can be quite active. However, I’ve tried to make comparisons between people’s scum and town games where I can to see if there’s a difference in activity. I believe this is a decent method to get some indication of alignment. A quick note about syllo His laziness and lack of interest in the game presently leaves me a little concerned about his alignment, although I still think he’s town. Just as a warning: Don’t rule out a Godfather-type mechanic that makes him have a high rather than negative success modifier in parties… In General: My play has been bad. If you want townie motivation, one reason is because I’m not the greatest fan of trying that hard without any prospect of a lynch and a sure scum already lined up when such a lynch occurs… I even said such a thing in the mason QT… Further, I enjoy using an elimination-based approach to finding scum since townie players can act scummy just as scum can. Combined with looking for scum motivation, I’d like to think my reads become reasonably accurate by this point in the game… Less-so early game, which is also why I’m a bit lazy about it… Also, mislynching me won’t help town any + Show Spoiler + (and syllo won’t carry me T.T) | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
| ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 30 2012 22:15 Clarity_nl wrote: I misread, wasn't aware it was GK voting for himself. Could be town emo or scum gambit, it's dumb either way and should be ignored. I'd argue it's dumb to go into full-on ignore mode of everything I say. In many ways, it feels like I'm going to be ignored until I'm dead, hence the vote... But we have zero clue how scum could possibly affect the lynch. Like what if only scum votes count? Then I could be mislynched for a different reason than the "second highest count wins" theory. Everyone should be held accountable for their votes. I know this much: after reassessing my reads yesterday, I've come to the conclusion phagga is scum. Said scum is voting for me... All hypotheticals aside, it is severely anti-town for me to vote myself. But I am really frustrated with how town is behaving right now... ##Unvote ##Vote: Keirathi ##Lynch Phagga If there is to be a "second lynch choice" this cycle, it should be phagga. Stop and think for a second: As scum: Do you seriously think that I would make a detailed list post highlighting all my reads in this game? This would give you an abundance of information if I were to flip scum, and that just isn't my scumgame... Further, that's way more effort than I put into my scum game... Seriously. Get your head out of your ass and spend a few seconds to consider the merits of my writeup. Is there anything in particular there you disagree with? I find it really funny that the only person here that seems to be rational right now is Acro. And he's claimed third party . | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On December 01 2012 00:19 phagga wrote: Ok, let's do this right so we can hopefully close that topic. I want to put this into relation of the dialog I already had with GK at that point and how I felt about GK then. Context matters, after all. So let's start with what Goodkarma wrote here: So, in this very post he says that he would support Sandro because he adopts a solid strategy. Then he proposes himself as party leader and says he would take Sandroba on his team. I found this strange, which is why I asked him: His answer So, he explains he has a slightly different plan than Sandro. Fair enough. Still, I wondered, why would anyone who has a town read on Sandro would vote Goodkarma instead of Sandroba, when Sandroba was running for party leader himself? After all, he is the vet, the well known scumhunter who was drawing votes with his name alone. Why would GK expect to be voted instead of Sandroba when his team contained Sandroba as well? I also have a short discussion with GK about town/scumhunting here. After that I write the following: I do not call him scum. I voice my suspicion of him. Some later, Goodkarma posts this: And again, I wonder, why should anyone vote GK instead of Sandroba if GK is gonna take Sand on his team anyway. Their plans differ only slightly, and most people would probably trust a town sand more to make accurate reads than a town GK. I was then writing a longer post about who I wanted as party leader and why. Somewhere in there was this part about Goodkarma and that I did not understand why he was voting Sandroba. Then I realised that it might be better to ask GK beforehand, show that I don't trust him and then post the longer post. Additionally, I wanted to show him where I came from with my suspiciouns and added that "What do you say about this:" part. However, it was meant to draw a reaction, i did not have a scum read on him at that point, I just wanted to see how he responded. So I posted this: Also, after copying the short paragraph in a new post, I started changing the sentences from third person to second person (as I was going to ask GK directly instead of talking about him in 3rd person). I made an error in the second sentence of the first paragraph (it should be "if you think Sandro..."). The reason is that I was doing this in a hurry, I was at work. I had already typed this long post that I wanted to put online, so I hurried to get this short post about GK out. Perhaps that is a reason why I did not word it clear enough, which is possibly why you seem to interpret it as "phagga says GK is scum and Sandro is town", while in reality it was supposed to be a hypothetical question that - should provoke a reaction of GK - should show GK what my fear about his candidature was Then, 3 minutes later, I posted the aforementioned big post, where I discussed who I wanted to vote and why. So, I admit, contradiction is the wrong word. His candidature did not make any sense to me with Sandroba in his team. Also, I know I am not the only one who felt that way, look at this post from prom for example, or risks post here. So you consider rehashing old arguements I've already addressed activity? You do know Hapa has a case against you, and you are continuing to behave as scum in the way highlighted in that case, right? + Show Spoiler + (Not coming up with any new arguement of any kind. Attacking "safe" players who already have cases against them...) | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On December 01 2012 00:48 Oatsmaster wrote: why did you vote yourself in the first place? As I just said, I was frustrated with this game. I was thinking that after I flip town, people would finally get their acts together. As in, consider what I've just presented: what is (at least in my humble opinion) a rather definitive writeup showing exactly why phagga and strong are scum (by process of elimination: their actions are scummy, and nearly everyone else can be pegged as 3rd party or town). If people won't let me contribute by actually considering what I tell them, then death is my greatest contribution... At least that was my line of thought at the time. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On December 01 2012 00:51 Clarity_nl wrote: GK, I said we should ignore you voting for yourself. I didn't say we should ignore you entirely. Great. Please comment on my case. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On December 01 2012 01:09 phagga wrote: eh, I was answering a question hapa asked me. Since when is that a bad thing? Are you actually reading what I post? (posting from phone) Does it matter who it was in reply to? It's rehashing arguments all the same... Here's a thought: Besides me (and obviously Toad), who do you think has the highest chance of being scum and why? | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On December 01 2012 01:37 iamperfection wrote: he said hopeless gk I almost missed it. He linked to a very old case on Hopeless about a page ago... Let's take a look at it: On November 29 2012 01:32 phagga wrote: -snip- 2. I remember going over Hopeless' filter a few days ago and setting him null on my list. Then Hope came up with this strange theorie about what if Toad flips town, followed by TC saying that Acro and Hope are of opposite alignement. Then he wanted to be part of the party to show that he is town, which was a red flag for me. Since then he is marked as scum. Regarding your post, I like the point about his sentence that he will not bring any last minute shenanigans. I mean, this is what everyone expects, why does he feel he has to announce this? seems like he is missing a townie mindest. The "Bring it, bitches" is interesting because he first takes a defensive stance in his answers to TCs case, but then tries to look aggressive with that last sentence. It does not seem authentic, but I don't think it's alignement indicative. -snip- This only adds to the evidence this guy is scum. It is super-lazy to use this as your case. What's more, it was a case he didn't have any conviction with describing. I'm not at all convinced from his case he thinks hopeless is scum.: Let's start with the bolded part.: The opposite alignment issue was already explained. And wanting to be in a party at this point in the game would be suicide for scum. So that only leaves a strange remark about Toad being town... Second paragraph: "Regarding your post, I like the point about his sentence that he will not bring any last minute shenanigans. I mean, this is what everyone expects, why does he feel he has to announce this? seems like he is missing a townie mindest.": How is a "no shenanigans" announcement indicative of only a scum mentality? He needs to elaborate on this point... Third Paragraph: "The "Bring it, bitches" is interesting because he first takes a defensive stance in his answers to TCs case, but then tries to look aggressive with that last sentence. It does not seem authentic, but I don't think it's alignement indicative. " So here, he's saying that what hopeless says isn't genuine, but isn't necessarily scum motivated. In other words, he tells us nothing. So what I get from this post that amounts to any kind of opinion at all is: 1) Hopeless said Toad could be town once, 2) Announcing no shennanigans means Hopeless is scum... Does everyone see how wishy-washy and weak this case is? This is exactly how a scum trying to blend in posts. It is blatantly obvious from stunts like this that phagga is scum. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On December 01 2012 01:41 Dienosore wrote: Except you fail to mention that you put that exact same list in the mason qt before you posted it here. Now, I'm not sure why you felt the need to throw all that info to the public? Giving cases on scum is fine, but copy/pasting your notepad list of reads on half of the people of the game just doesn't make sense to me... Maybe you were scared Syllo was going to expose it, and so you decided to post here in the forums before he did as a bit of damage control? In other words: I threw out a lot of my thoughts into the forums that day without really editing them... Exactly as I previously described. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On December 01 2012 01:49 Dienosore wrote: In the QT: goodkarma 11-27-2012 07:13 PM ET (US) On TL: November 28 2012 09:57 Dieno here didn't account for the timezone difference. TL forums have Korean time zone stamp. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On December 01 2012 02:21 Hopeless1der wrote: I really dislike the fact that GK is arguing that his own meta doesn't match. If he's aware of his meta, he can abuse it and anything he says is now WIFOM. Reading his response to Promethelax's case, he spends way too much time being upset and pulling the 'y u no read filter' card. He also calls the case bad a number of times instead of addressing it properly. The prime example is: Townies don't create preconceived reasons to sheep, which was what Promethelax was saying. Claiming your vote on Sand was pressure gives you a way to jump off of him, while looking the part of concerned townie. It is the very thing that scum would do to ensure they can go with the flow. But instead of addressing the scum motive and explaining why he wasn't doing that, he calls the accusation ridiculous and pushes ahead. I personally consider self-voting a scumtell in most situations. There is no townie reasoning more powerful than LYNCH SCUM. Intentionally playing against your win-con creates an emotional argument instead of a rational one, and emotional arguments lead to raging, yelling, and chaos. If you are town, you should never have to vote for yourself. We should have access to his night actions via the players he's masoned with. I'm trusting them to reveal if things don't look right until we have a chance to properly lynch him. I have a marginal scumread on GK. Reading Phagga's responses next Let me address these issues one by one: Regarding "Meta": If you really believe my scum game could change so wildly from my meta over such a short time I suppose that's up to you... Regarding "Sheeping": It wasn't a full-on sheep. There was other reasoning behind it. In the quote below I discuss why I chose Sandroba over Toad. It wasn't merely a sheep vote, it was also based on his behavior.: On November 25 2012 05:49 goodkarma wrote: This is a good point, but it's not like Sandro has been perma-afk or anything. He has been incredibly inactive, but when he has been here he has had nothing to contribute except in defense of himself. This has been brought up before, but it is the same kind of scumtell as you're using for the case against Toad. I won't be upset if Toad is lynched. However, that syllo is on Sandro, and I know that syllo is town, is enough to tip the scales in favor of lynching sandro for me. Regarding the "Pressure Vote": I already explained this in the Prox. case: On November 29 2012 22:14 goodkarma wrote: "Regarding Self-voting": On December 01 2012 00:56 goodkarma wrote: As I just said, I was frustrated with this game. I was thinking that after I flip town, people would finally get their acts together. As in, consider what I've just presented: what is (at least in my humble opinion) a rather definitive writeup showing exactly why phagga and strong are scum (by process of elimination: their actions are scummy, and nearly everyone else can be pegged as 3rd party or town). If people won't let me contribute by actually considering what I tell them, then death is my greatest contribution... At least that was my line of thought at the time. I have previously addressed all the issues that have led you to a scum read on me. So don't say I haven't... Going to briefly discuss VE's case next... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On December 01 2012 06:31 syllogism wrote: No one really is by this point. I'm not disputing the fact that mafia realizes that they can not do anything right now. No one is making any attempts, because it's not possible. I'm not convinced that he is mafia, I just think it is likely. Doesn't matter much though until we get our next lynch. I will say that I would rather include some of these lurking players in the party than him. Just a quick question, but could you humor me and tell me a scum motivation for Hapa to lie about taking damage (or healing for that matter)? I can't think of any reason he'd feel motivated to lie about this, as town or scum... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On December 01 2012 06:38 Acrofales wrote: If you are looking townie, then people will interpret the source of damage to be scum. Therefore claiming damage makes you look townier (in fact, it makes you look like valuable town, because scum is trying to off you). Toad claiming the shot "confirms" that this damage came from a scum source. So if scum actually did shoot Hapa, is there a conceivable way the heal didn't go through? With so many abilities in the game I would think this possible... I suppose the scum motivation makes sense, but it feels like it would be a high risk scum move to make for the reward (a little "town cred")... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On December 01 2012 06:48 Keirathi wrote: One thing that has been bothering me, though: why the fuck isn't syllo dead yet? Or even taking any damage? I can't imagine a scumteam, after having lost the day 1 election and then lost sandro day 2, to allow a town syllo with a ton of town cred to still be alive. I'm not really sure what to make of it, though. Maybe they just haven't thought he was a threat because he hasn't been very active? I can't convince myself that he's scum, because of the day 1 party, but it doesn't make much sense. I agree with this, and have proposed that it could be possible scum have a "Godfather"-type mechanic where one of their members doesn't ruin party success. It's complete speculation, but it certainly is odd that syllo isn't dead yet... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On November 30 2012 14:29 VisceraEyes wrote: goodkarma Damning setup speculation certainly appears townie, but it becomes less so when one is drawn into a setup-speculation conversation citing setup speculation as the reasoning for it. But don't worry, he's still townie because he agreed with someone else that discussing it further is not a good use of time...right? Right guys? No. Not right. Especially when you add in one of my personal favorite scumtells, bloating his own contributions. He was among the loudest voices D1 shouting "this game isn't about scumhunting it's about townhunting!" While selecting a party leader was the focus of D1, at no point in this game should anyone NOT be scumhunting. Sorry to say it, but it's right there in the name of the game. We're looking for Mafia. But not GK. GK is only interested in looking for townies...which helps in selecting a party leader, sure. But then what? He made it clear early on that hunting scum is not on his agenda. But you know what he did do? Well let's just see! Awesome! 4 useless things! I'll just go right down the list. 1) GK was absolutely NOT the reason people started talking about who would be included in the parties. This is a gross skewing of what was happening during D1. It's certainly possible that no one would have mentioned who they were selecting, but he literally says that he's the only reason anyone even mentioned it. He also did not "show exactly why this is the best approach". He didn't even show why he THINKS it's the best approach. He simply stated that he wouldn't be voting for anyone who didn't say exactly who they'd be taking and why, and damned everyone voting for syllo/sand because they weren't being as "transparent" as he was. 2) If he's willing to change his party around, then what the fuck is the point of saying exactly who you're planning to take if you're leader in the first place? What's the point of even SELECTING a leader if you don't want to let them lead? In what way is the leader culpable for his choice of party if it's decided at the same time as the leader anyway and it's a town decision? This is the problem I'm having with his logic, but he rattles it off as some huge accomplishment for town. Good job bro. 3) Ran for leader. Cool. So did Sandroba (scum) and Toad (probable scum). Got anything else? 4) Active. Because, you know...only town are active, and scum only lurk. [/sarcasm] If someone draws attention to their own meta, it's fucking useless. Period. So...bloating his own contributions. Cool. How about a "USELESS LIST MAKING" CHASER?!?!? This was the post that really made me go look back over GK. A scum suspect list....THAT INCLUDES HALF OF THE FUCKING GAME!!! Nevermind that he wants to shoot me dead because I was inactive. Fine, I can understand that sentiment...but having half the players in the game on a scum suspect list? Really? Why not just say "I'm not interested in looking for scum" and leave it at that? After all, that's what he's been doing ALL GAME LONG anyway. This game is about TOWNHUNTING, not SCUMHUNTING, remember? So why bother at all? My guess is to appear contributory without having to do anything...but your mileage may vary. At this point, I'm most interested in GK dying after Toad, but I intend to thoroughly go over the party that failed last cycle before I vote to lynch anyone (presuming we get another lynch next cycle). VE's case, as I originally said, has to do with scummy behavior rather than scum motivation. I will briefly address each point of his case. To summarize, VE's case points were: 1) OMGUS, you speculate too much... 2) OMGUS, knowing the parties upfront is stupid all you need is a good leader 3) OMGUS, meta is useless, and so are lists To address these: 1) In a THEMED game, I would argue that you'd see more setup speculation than in a standard game. This is NORMAL. I did my fair share of it to be sure, but I have no idea why this is scum motivated behavior. As for "embellishing my contributions," to the extent of my knowledge I was indeed the first to propose full disclosure of the chosen party. Maybe others suggested it, or it was super-obvious... The fact of the matter at hand is that both town and scum can have egos, so if I am to come across as thinking I am more important than I may actually be I don't see how that is a scum tell. As for the reasoning for proposing the open party structure, transparency is the reason. It's written right there by you, and it is a very valid one. A transparent atmosphere is a pro-town atmosphere. Add to that that this isn't a game of pure scumhunting like most are. I am not the only one guilty of not scumhunting 24/7, as this is a THEMED GAME and a different approach is required. 2) Greater transparency. Completely self-explanatory. By knowing the party up-front, far more information is provided than just electing a leader since everyone has to justify why each member of the party is a good choice... Already explained this... 3) If you feel meta is useless that's up to you. The same can be said about lists. But quite frankly, my last list post alone, which provided a detailed read of everyone in the game and pointed out likely scum, provided ten times more useful information than all of your posts (to date) combined. You have lurked the shit out of this game, and if you want to show you're town you sure as hell better step it up. You feel I've "bloated my contributions" and that I haven't scum-hunted as much as you'd like. And just to be clear, this is scummy, rather than scum-motivated behavior + Show Spoiler + (exactly as described in my list post...) I won't say that I've played the strongest town game to date (I haven't), and that really seems to be all you're trying to say in this case: OMGUS. But I have done my best to step it up. I have provided a rather full-fledged list just recently, and from it have deduced top scum suspects. If there's anything else, let me know. But part of the reason for not getting to this right away is that I dedicated most of my focus recently to getting out my reads. Addressing cases where I need to repeat myself, or: where no real indication is provided that I am acting with scum motivation (rather than scummy, as is mentioned here), were lower priority for me. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Based off a boss guide on gamefaqs, slash has two phases: unarmed and armed (with his sword). You loot his sword after beating him... With his sword he has stupidly high physical defense, so charging him would be terrible. So that leaves two options: 1) Grab the sword 2) use a tech attack I'm not sure of what the success rate would be for just grabbing his sword (you can't do this in the game), but using a tech attack would be far better than just running at him (and presumably using physical attacks). Therefore, I would propose using a tech attack. Better to directly try to kill the boss. You can grab his sword after... As for Flea: Here, apparently magic attacks aren't so hot... Since our Frog doesn't have the powered-up Masamune, I'm unsure what kind of damage he could muster. And as for Robo, he isn't really the strongest physical damage character... Even without the Masamune, I would think attacking with Frog would be best here. Link to gamefaqs: http://www.gamefaqs.com/snes/563538-chrono-trigger/faqs/8268 type "in boss: (insert boss name here)" to quickly find the boss fight description. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
| ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On December 01 2012 09:32 Adam4167 wrote: So.... you're damaging your '5th' likely scum read? Your play this game literally boggles my brain. I was committed to attacking you a cycle before. As I've explained in Mason QT, I can't change targets after charging up my ability, until I discharge my shot + Show Spoiler + (I describe it as "stacks" in there, but it's the same thing...) | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On December 01 2012 09:48 Hapahauli wrote: Anywho, I'm casting my vote for Option C on both actions: ##Slash “C” ##Flea “C" I'm pretty comfortable with these, and I feel we should take care of this as quickly as possible so we can get back to scumhunting. These are both sensible options, for the reasons I just discussed. ##Slash “C” ##Flea “C" In other words: Attack Slash with tech attack, attack Flea with Frog (Dienosore) | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On December 01 2012 12:18 Hopeless1der wrote: Because of the amount of effort Acro has put into the game and my belief that he has the towns best interest at heart, I am not going to 100% claim my actions in order to protect his HP information. I do not believe the information I'm withholding is valuable enough to town to justify giving scum/other 3rd parties that info. I gain vig hits equal to 2x the damage I deal to myself and untargetability as my secondary ability. N1 - 63 HP N2 - Target CJ for 126 damage N3 - # HP (withheld to prevent knowledge of Acro's HP) N4 - Target Toad N5 - I'll debate whether its worth claiming. Things to note: My target on CJ seems to have been delayed. In addition, it directly contradicts gk's claim. There is an extra 75 damage that went missing on CJ Night 3. However, my hit should have gone through Night 2, and I don't know why it didn't. I was unable to deal the amount of damage to myself that I wanted to last night. I still have a shot, its just less than I was expecting. The amount I fell short makes no sense from a percentage standpoint. It was not a round number. No heals to report. I don't want to use tech attacks for this event. I want to try taking that sword and I want Robo to attack first. ##Slash: A ##Flea: E So explain to me how your attack got "delayed?" Because from what I see in your claim, your damage should have gone through night 2. My shot went off on night 3... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Having a low-HP Dieno die fighting a boss doesn't make sense though, so leaving it to Oats is a sensible action. It sucks though that we can't make use of him now that he finally has his powered-up Masamune... ##Unvote ##Slash: "C" ##Flea: "E" | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On December 02 2012 00:32 Oatsmaster wrote: Clearly something is screwing with us. Also, Strong and Big is scum so vigi him :D I agree with you, but would you care to elaborate on your reasoning for your read? | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
| ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On December 02 2012 01:35 Hopeless1der wrote: Are you dense or scum, and keep in mind I already think you're scum? What part of I don't know what happened did you not understand? I wouldn't withhold that information because the situation is confusing enough as it is. As far as I can tell, I'm the only player that has the option to deal abnormal amounts of damage (i.e. not increments of 5). The simplest solution is that my hit was delayed and yours was half of what you say it was. This brings me to another point: CJ claimed more damage than you claimed to have dealt. Why was that not accounted for in your proposal? What did you think happened to the 51 damage? Why am I automatically scum, by your reasoning? @Acro My ability does not use percentages to determine any damage dealt. What's supposed to happen is: I pick a number between 0 and [an upper limit]. Damage is dealt TO MYSELF equal to the number I selected. I then gain a vig hit for 2x the damage dealt and I cannot be targeted the following night. The percentages part of my post was because I suspect foul play. The number I selected last night, the one to deal damage to myself, was reduced by an amount that makes no sense. It isn't a clean percentage of the total, it isnt a round number, it was just strange and I don't know if anyone has the ability to modify my own. Alternatively, the math behind my max HP says I can fully charge one more hit before I'm down to 1 hp. I'm going to get at least one more cycle in because I'm untargetable again tonight. I suspect that only myself and draz targeted Toad, no one else has claimed to do so. I think the mafia has a block 50% damage that was used on Toad. From there, you should be able to extrapolate roughly how much my hit was for, barring CJ's HP fluctuations and Toad lying through his teeth. I never said you were scum. If you were to look, I have you listed as a town read. I just couldn't follow how you concluded your ability was delayed, and I still don't. No one to date has claimed any kind of ability that would postpone damage as you've described. Consider that the fifty-one points of damage I didn't inflict could have come from another source that's not reporting, and your damage night 2 could have been somehow nullified. This would involve three people's abilities. This is actually a simpler possibility than your proposal of a type of ability that no one's claimed to have postponed your damage, and saying I dealt a different amount of damage than what I said I did (this scenario would actually involve four people: me, you, and someone with a damage mitigation ability on CJ, and someone with this damage-postponement ability which imho is pretty far-fetched...)... Finally, one last possibility: CaveJohnson is lying. Take your pick, but imho your scenario is the least plausible of the three listed here. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On December 02 2012 06:25 kitaman27 wrote: No need to get emotional It seems to me that S&B's role is more useful as an investigative role, rather than a heal 50 hp role. Based on the two flips we've seen so far, the bad guys in the game match up with the mafia team roles. What we can do is select the player we're most likely to lynch the next cycle, force them to name claim, and have S&B verify that the character name. Did it occur to you that if strong is scum, then his "confirmations" mean nothing? If the person's town, he'll say it "checks out," and if scum fake claims he'll do exactly the same... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On December 02 2012 06:44 kitaman27 wrote: If he confirms a scum fake claim, then he's linked himself to another scum player and we have a 2 for 1 deal. You value the 50 hp heal over the investigative check? Never said that. Just saying we can't trust what he says from his investigative checks. Nvm though. I see what you're saying now. If we're going to lynch a person he checks regardless of what he says his check turned back, then we can possibly catch him in a lie and get "2 for 1"... Got it. I approve. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
##Ozzie B ##Magus A | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
As for pathing, taking the route without pits makes sense. Although, I suppose you could argue if a particular route had a pit containing a treasure chest that could be nice... The reason people are sheeping is because his proposed actions are sensible... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
We come to a consensus on our top 2 lynch picks before next cycle. I strongly suspect at this time that SnB would be among them (at least, he is for me, with phagga being the other...). We have SnB investigate one of them, and, if we are in a situation where we've decided he is the other top lynch choice, we will know the alignment of the second choice if SnB is somehow mislynched and flips town. As for my 2 lynch choices (as I just said), they would be: phagga, SnB Tbh, at this point, I'm skeptical that SnB's abilities are real, but we might as well make the best use of them if for whatever reason he's actually telling the truth. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
| ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On December 03 2012 17:18 phagga wrote: That post sounds like scum. you have posted almost nothing in the last 72 hours, and all you do is trying to judge a player on is claimed abilities. Hapa has posted a lot in the last few hours, why don't you comment on that? Incredibly hypocritical to be saying this, considering pretty much the exact same thing could be said of you. You haven't posted anything of substance for quite a while (like ~2 days...). What do you think of Hapa? You've spent a good deal of effort defending yourself against his case, but I don't see much about what you actually think of him... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
##Vote: strongandbig As for my current scum reads: Nothing has really changed on my reads since my all-encompassing list post. The only exception to that is Adam, who I now have a slight town read on. Said post is spoilered below for reference. A few additional case points on why strong is scum are also listed there.: + Show Spoiler + On November 30 2012 20:34 goodkarma wrote: Listed below is a more detailed list post. Included are all my reads, including my top scum suspects.: Clarity, Oatsmaster, Dienosore, Keirathi, Syllogism: “Confirmed town…” TheChronicler: believable claim, a sincerity that leads me to believe he's town... Toad – Scum, obviously. Z-Boson – Lurky, about to be replaced. From what I’ve seen of his game, he plays much more wishy-washy as scum and tries moreso to “blend in” than give definitive reads. Then again, this was in (I think?) his first newbie game (NMM XXIV). Whatever the case, I know that his play has evolved significantly since then, and that if he was scum his play would be possibly craftier. But I do like his closing list post. I would lean towards a (slight) town read on him at this present point in the game. We will know more after his replacement (hopefully) does a better job of being active. + Show Spoiler + (And as a side note, I’m a little sad I couldn’t play a full game with Z-Bo… Playing with him in NMM XXIV was a blast )Kitaman – For being a strong town player, he doesn’t seem to be dedicating much effort into playing this game. Honestly, does anyone NOT think he’s 3rd party yet? His most recent post about Acro though does raise my eyebrows quite high though… Why does he take such a sudden interest in Acro??? Is it because he has to get him lynched as a 3rd party objective? Heavy speculation I know, but the thought crossed my mind… I mean it’s not as though Kita’s done much of anything all game to help us… Just as he’s pushing for Acro to full claim, I’d propose that it’s important for him to full claim, for the same reasons he listed for Acro. CaveJohnson – Ridiculously anti-town, lies constantly about his abilities, but hard to read because of the consistency with which he does it… That pretty much sums up his play… That he claimed to damage Toad with some super-powerful OP ability doesn’t mean he’s town… I’d say if Acro were to claim his HP, maybe there could be some means of determining if his claim were even plausible after Toad’s flip. But really even that is speculative, as Acro isn’t someone who we know we can trust presently… As it stands, there’s really not much we can do with him. He’s not a strong lynch prospect, but I’m still not against him being a decent vigi prospect. Even then, though, I don’t feel he’s the best priority right now. This is different than my stance before. Details below: While making this list post, I’ve thought of it this way: I am of the belief that CaveJohnson would be just as likely to be playing this way as scum or town. So how I look at it it’s a (assuming 5-member scumteam) 5/25 (20%) chance he’s scum from the outset. It could be the case but it’s inherently unlikely… As such, there are better vigi targets. Hapa – I honestly don’t know what to make of this healing situation. Firstly, I don’t see how town or scum would be likely to damage Hapa. Secondly, I don’t see what Hapa would have to gain by lying about either being damaged or healed… And this I believe to be the major point: even if he were scum, why would he have any reason whatsoever to lie about being damaged or healed? Pity points, I guess??? I see zero motive for doing so, and as such I believe Hapa’s damage and (lack of) healing claims. The circumstances for them may be unclear, but in the absence of motive there’s really no reason I can see to not believe Hapa. Regarding Hapa’s play in general: It’s undeniably “off” from the town Hapa I remember that tunnel drills scum to death. But then again, I see clearly pro-town qualities to his play. He is providing scum reads and doing + Show Spoiler + (at least imo) I’m not 100% familiar with his scum play but from what I’ve seen from a couple of games where he’s played scum (Mario mini, liquid city), he takes on a more informal tone in his posts and is a bit more trolly. He has a more serious tone this game, and while I would not consider this alone a reason to call him town, it is something else worth considering. I would love to see a game where he played scum well, as I find it hard to believe he got a “well-respected scum game” from these two games… All in all, I have a town read on him. Iamperfection – Players such as him are incredibly hard for me to read… In fact the only thing I can really say from what I’ve tried to gather from his meta is that he is super-spammy as town (in Mario mini) and a less spammy as scum (NMM XIX, GSL mini don’t remember the number). As it stands, I’m trying to sift through a sea of one-liners to find posts of substance. I clearly recall in the early game, he had a really ridiculous “You know I’m town, right?” remark that Acro hammered him for. While I really didn’t feel it was productive, given how he plays I couldn’t call that alignment indicative. As it stands, he does seem to be showing what I consider to be genuine interest in the game (with intermittent non-sequitor remarks…), asking relevant questions to try to peg scum. I would like to see more “case” posting from him, but I’m not holding my breath… Leaning town. Prox – There’s a certain zeal with which he pushed his cases when we first played together as town in NMM XXII. Not saying that our play hasn’t evolved since then, but I do find it incredibly hard to believe that, however bad, as scum he could be bothered to write up a 43-page case against someone (me). I guess it could be he really really hates me … But I’d assume it’s more plausible that he’s passionate about finding scum this game. And that’s not the kind of passion you typically find from scum. I’ve taken a chance to look at his scum game in NMM XIX, and it’s also notable that he is far lurkier that game. 18 pages’ activity, however, in his filter presently this game, and there’s definitely some substantial scumhunting in there. I’d say that’s at least some indication that he cares. Add to that that he has a plausible roleclaim that I’m inclined to believe. I have a town read on him.Hopeless – At this point I’m having a bit of writer’s block mulling through everything… But I can say this: Hopeless tends to play a far lurkier game as scum. Also the effort he puts into defending himself and the transparency with which he’s explained his scummy actions (such as lack of scumhunting) I find to be town characteristics. I have a slight town read on him. Although if he is to convince others he isn’t scum, it would be a good idea for him to pick up on the scumhunting… risk.nuke – This seems to be a favorite topic of a few people here for a potential lynch. He definitely hasn’t been very useful for town, and his scumhunting is rather lacking, but I’m not convinced that makes him scum. A large part of my town read on him is his roleclaim in mason QT. He was incredibly indignant about how reserved I was with communicating with him, and as he came to understand it was uncertain his claim implied he was town I felt he was genuine in how he came across. Another reason I believe risk is that I have never seen a setup where masons are scum aligned. And honestly, from a logistical standpoint it would make little sense as it’s a power that really wouldn’t help scum much at all. And from this perspective, I find it unlikely that he is lying. I am rather thankful that he was given the mason role, as I will admit that from his filter it would be very easy to mislynch him. And lastly, I am unsure as to the full line of reasoning for why he chose me the first cycle. I will, however, say that I find it believable that as town you would bring in the person you vote for party leader, as that’s clearly one of your town reads. He definitely could have used his role differently (as a way to try to confirm and vigi kill scum reads), but he didn’t. Traditionally, a mason wouldn’t have a vigi kill power, and I could understand how he would not think to use his role in what is (arguably) the stronger way of confirming and killing scum… I have a town read on risk. Djo – I really should have given his scum game more credit. I didn’t realize until looking at Mario Mini that he had a formidable scum game. However, I still have a town read on him. He had been eager every step of the way to get himself established as town. Even now, when it would be suicidal as scum to be elected to a party, he’s excited for the opportunity. I simply don’t see scum doing that, as being the weak link that fails the party at this point in the game means certain detection and death. Adam – I really don’t like the way he’s played this game. And the only scum game I could find he lurked until he got modkilled, which really doesn’t tell me much of anything… He shows an active interest in the game, asking reasonable questions, but his only “case” seems to be on Z-Boson who he seems bent on tunneling. I remember a person or two commenting on how it was inaccurate he was spending most his time tunneling Z-Boson as it was only something like two posts. But looking at his sparse filter, they are the two-three posts of the most substance. He made one or two comments about Sandroba for his lynch, but beyond that, all he’s given us is Z-Boson is a prime scum candidate and no one else really is… Tunneling is something both scum and town do. However, Z-Boson is an easy target that has had lurker issues similar to Adam. Imho, it’s a bit scummy to only focus on Z-Boson, even after he’s said he’s getting replaced… All that being said, I have a null read on Adam. Outside of Z-Boson, he has generally acted pro-town and nothing else appears to be scummy. Acro – Has generally acted pro-town, and has claimed 3rd party. Kita, however, has brought up the good point that we have no idea of Acro’s win condition or if he can be trusted. Unlike Kita, the most peculiar thing I’ve found about Acro is how actively invested he seems to be as 3rd party. This doesn’t make sense to me, unless if he wins with town. And if he really is 3rd party, he should have a different win condition of some kind… It doesn’t quite add up for me. He genuinely seems to be trying, and I can’t quite figure out why. He needs to roleclaim if town is to trust that he is an asset and not a liability going further into this game. I also have not ruled out the possibility that the reason he is so proactive after claiming 3rd party is that he actually is scum. Nothing that I can presently find tips me towards distrusting he’s third party, but it’s in the back of my mind… My Scum Reads: Sorry that this section isn’t longer and more detailed. I may elaborate more at a later point in time if people demand a “definitive case.” What makes them top suspects is that almost everyone else’s alignment I have deduced as discussed above. Combined with the scummy behavior they exhibit, I believe they have a very strong chance of flipping red. 1) phagga – I like Hapa’s case on him. Phagga has indeed been “playing it safe, and has not been aggressive with pursuing his reads. It’s the kind of laziness and indifference I’d expect of scum. His defense to Hapa’s case was short and sweet and unconvincing too imho. I’m not going to go into much more detail right now other than to say this: Hapa’s case has merit. Maybe you guys should actually take some time to pay attention to it… Perhaps he hasn’t been “red checked” like Toad, and he hasn’t outright said he’s scum, but his play is consistent with what I’d expect from scum. By process of elimination, he is a top scum suspect that needs to be further investigated for next lynch. 2) strongandbig – I jumped the gun on this case before. I looked into his filter and I noticed that he had a pronounced difference in his post count between this game and his town meta. Then I saw that he had excuses for his absences, and that he was genuinely busy. He has definitely “blended in,” taking no stances I would consider brave or new. And while he has excuses, he still has been pretty lurky, and this does match his scum meta. Also, two things I consider possible scumslips: “phagga is probably town, but I'm not confident enough to agree with putting him on a party yet.” This remark has been referenced before, but this is something I don’t see a townie motivation for saying. There’s a pronounced difference between “probably town” and “maybe town.” You vote in your strong town reads, so this doesn’t quite add up to me… It’s at the very least an odd statement if phagga were to be lynched and flip town, but I would argue it would be a damning statement if phagga were to be lynched and flip scum. Another thing that was odd to me was that he was pissed about the 100 points of damage he took. How could you be mad about this when it’s pretty clear that you’re a decent lurker shot? Not clearly scum motivated by any means, but still it felt a little odd to me since only scum needs to worry about surviving as long as possible. 3) VE – Has pretty much only lurked until recently. Has recently pushed a case on me. Scolds Prox for making a case on why I was scummy rather than about my motivations then does the same with his own. He has done absolutely nothing to demonstrate that he is town, and further, pointing out scummy actions rather than scum motivated ones on town players is a commonplace play for scum. I have ruled out almost everyone else from this list as either town or third party. That only leaves lurkers for this third spot… VE fits the bill of a scummy lurker, and should be considered for lynch after phagga and strong. Some might say something like, “But he’s only been active a short time give him time…” And I’m not opposed to that. He will have some time to attempt to prove he’s town as phagga and strong are first on the chopping block. By far my weakest scum read, but a scum read nonetheless. 3, alternate 1) CaveJohnson as I described before is a very hard one to read since he is so consistently anti-town. However, he belongs on this list as he very well could be scum for reasons already described. 3, alternate 2) Adam could be scum. He’s a null read lurker for me atm... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
As such, I don't get what we're hoping to achieve at the End of Time. Further: GreyMist has shown over and over again this game that just about anything can be thrown at us at his whim. Feel free to hope for one result (such as new magic abilities), but FULLY EXPECT you'll get another... The ONLY THING related to times that we know about right now is that some characters have a bonus in certain times. With the very very likely scum flip this cycle, I don't see anything too worrisome about matching up a time period with characters who have admitted having a bonus in that time + Show Spoiler + (or even who just happen to be from that time period) Looking at the spreadsheet, and the already claimed abilities, the time period that will most likely benefit us most is the Middle Ages (600AD). As such: ##Epoch: Middle Ages (600AD) | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On December 03 2012 20:33 phagga wrote: @risk.nuke I also still would like to know what you think of hapa. Regarding SnB: Having two damaging abilities, him visiting Djo who is in the party is damning in any case. However, I am also confident in my scum read on Goodkarma, so I am happy to lynch either of them. For now, my vote stays on GK. Your vote post is pretty funny. Because it basically says, "I'd rather lynch my favorite scum read over a sure scum." The scum motivation here is apparent: trying to set up a counterwagon to prevent the snb lynch. As for this quote: On December 01 2012 07:33 phagga wrote: Spoilering Goodkarmas quotes to not shit up the thread too much. + Show Spoiler + On December 01 2012 01:34 goodkarma wrote: Does it matter who it was in reply to? It's rehashing arguments all the same... Here's a thought: Besides me (and obviously Toad), who do you think has the highest chance of being scum and why? Dude, seriously. you ask If I am aware that Hapa made a case against me as answer to my post who is an answer to Hapas case against me. Your post is nonsensical. Also, since when is defending myself scummy? + Show Spoiler + On December 01 2012 02:05 goodkarma wrote: I almost missed it. He linked to a very old case on Hopeless about a page ago... Let's take a look at it: This only adds to the evidence this guy is scum. It is super-lazy to use this as your case. What's more, it was a case he didn't have any conviction with describing. I'm not at all convinced from his case he thinks hopeless is scum.: Let's start with the bolded part.: The opposite alignment issue was already explained. And wanting to be in a party at this point in the game would be suicide for scum. So that only leaves a strange remark about Toad being town... Second paragraph: "Regarding your post, I like the point about his sentence that he will not bring any last minute shenanigans. I mean, this is what everyone expects, why does he feel he has to announce this? seems like he is missing a townie mindest.": How is a "no shenanigans" announcement indicative of only a scum mentality? He needs to elaborate on this point... Third Paragraph: "The "Bring it, bitches" is interesting because he first takes a defensive stance in his answers to TCs case, but then tries to look aggressive with that last sentence. It does not seem authentic, but I don't think it's alignement indicative. " So here, he's saying that what hopeless says isn't genuine, but isn't necessarily scum motivated. In other words, he tells us nothing. So what I get from this post that amounts to any kind of opinion at all is: 1) Hopeless said Toad could be town once, 2) Announcing no shennanigans means Hopeless is scum... Does everyone see how wishy-washy and weak this case is? This is exactly how a scum trying to blend in posts. It is blatantly obvious from stunts like this that phagga is scum. The post was two days ago. That's once cycle. That's not "very old". The post was not a case. It was an answer to snb who asked me about my opinion on Hopeless in regard to his case. My comments were related to his case. I have written more about what I think of hopeless here and in the discussion with him here. That is for example the reason why the "bring it bitches" thing is in there: I read it differently than snb, so I wanted to comment on it since he ASKED for my comments. And only because the opposite alignement stuff is explained I am no longer allowed to talk about it? I am not allowed to describe how I felt about it back when it came up? Even if he would have specifically asked to comment on it? Seriously, you are grasping at straws here. You have not even correctly read my post, let alone my filter, you did not put the post into context to try to understand what's going on. you are just trying desperately to discredit me at all cost. You don't care about the truth, you put meanings into my sentences that were not there, you ignore time stamps, exagerate, and try anything to make me look bad. So your post on hopeless was not a case...? And every time I bring up your disinterest in coming up with your own opinion on why someone is scum, it seems your favorite thing to do is to bring up one or two old quotes that don't point to a very coherant case... So how about this: if hopeless is your next strongest scumread: Put all your arguments on why you think Hopeless is scum in one spot, in one case post. Hopeless has been active enough that there's clearly more to go on than comments which are several cycles old. You briefly mention you still find him suspicious here: here. To be clear, I expect to see some followup from you, not a series of half-baked ideas. Because tunneling me with old arguments is a splendid way of pretending to be active and interested while contributing nothing. If you want to prove that you're town, the first step is to take some initiative and actually show you can do your own scumhunting, without recycling and rehashing others' arguments. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On December 05 2012 00:55 phagga wrote: If I would have switched my vote you would have accused me of bussing. If I would have wanted to set up a counterwagon I would have actually pushed you, which I did not. I don't take requests from you. I don't care what you think of me. You are scum, you need to die. Your first point about not actively pushing for a counterwagon has some validity to it. However, as town you should always be lynching sure scum over not sure scum. And in this context,that you didn't switch your vote is a bit odd. Especially considering that you seem more worried about how you'd look scummy "bussing" a sure scum, than about lynching a sure scum (which isn't something you'd need to worry about at all as town). Your second point ("I won't elaborate on my scum read") is completely unjustified. There are other people who would like to see actual scumhunting from you. Especially Hapa, who you currently have a town read on... This isn't just a reasonable request. It's a request for you to actually do what you're supposed to be doing if you're actually town. And if you're scum, just keep this up... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On December 05 2012 01:10 phagga wrote: Btw, from where do you know that SnB is sure scum? All I know is that his behaviour was extremely anti-town, hence the lynch. But town does not know his alignement yet. SnB was caught in a lie when syllo found he targeted Djo, he made a very implausible story about being bussed, and then posted this: On December 04 2012 20:11 strongandbig wrote: ##lynch cavejohnson ##epoch 1999 Lets get this shit over with yo Both of these things are gonna happen eventually might as well do them now So yeah, strongandbig is scum. Perhaps a better question is: how can you in any way think at this point strong could be town? | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Kita can be nearly "confirmed" as not scum by simply asking around and confirming that no one else was playing the guessing game the days he claimed to be + Show Spoiler + (I mean maybe they opted not to use their ability multiple nights so he could do this but I find that incredibly unlikely and suboptimal...) Cave claimed to take headbutt one night. I'm actually not inclined to buy into this as "confirmation" he isn't scum. Headbutt has the unique ability of hardly doing any damage at all. The other of strong's abilities can only be used when a role name is known, making strong effectively in a position of uselessness if he doesn't have a role to go off of. I could completely picture Cave fake claiming headbutt, or even actually taking 1HP headbutt damage + Show Spoiler + (on a night where scum didn't have a role name to target) If VE's afk lurk modkill is any indication, scum is disheartened and have given up on this game. Looking for the last one (assuming 5 scum setup) may be as easy as seeing who else has stopped caring. In this context, I can understand how some have decided risk is a good lynch candidate for today. However, I still have reservations. Did it occur to anyone else how absolutely crazy it would be for a mason-type role to be scum-affiliated? I have yet to see this in a game... That aside, I've already discussed how I feel about a risk lynch. I'm still against it. I will be reassessing my reads either tonight or tomorrow morning and making my case for who I feel we should lynch. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On December 05 2012 10:14 Hapahauli wrote: Can you post the logs from the QT (especially those regarding risk). Also, Mad Men Mafia had some sort of mafia-mason from what I remember. It's good to know that there is some precedent for such a thing as scum masons... Yeah, QT is pretty worthless imho now so I see no problem with posting most of it minus perhaps the most recent stuff (related to my future night actions). Don't get too excited though, as I expect it's going to take me a few minutes to find a semi-palatteable way of copy-pasting it... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
| ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On December 05 2012 10:24 iamperfection wrote: Is there any reason not to post the whole log of the mason circle? The later part is not that useful or important for discussion, it's decently long, and I'm decently lazy... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
goodkarma 11-28-2012 04:38 PM ET (US) Okay, just going to go with CaveJohnson then... Would be curious to understand Syllo's motive for exposing circle too... 89 risk7nuke 11-28-2012 04:08 PM ET (US) I got an idea, since you don't want to play this game. Post your rolepm and get modkilled. 88 risk7nuke 11-28-2012 04:02 PM ET (US) thanks syllogism, for outing the qt for absolutely no reason. 87 syllogism 11-28-2012 03:34 PM ET (US) Don't you care who he is inviting, goodkarma? 86 syllogism 11-28-2012 03:24 PM ET (US) Risk are you inviting someone tonight? 85 goodkarma 11-28-2012 02:53 PM ET (US) I've got stuff to do now, but to quickly address your questions: I am a minor character by the name of Fiona. I have forest critters that gather around my target (up to three stacks) and attack on my command... If they were to be bussed, I wouldn't know what to expect the outcome to be. I was thinking at the time that it meant 150 damage to my target, and just assumed the damage would be transferred. But now that I think about it, it could be that the damage could not be done to anyone other than CJ. Also: If you doubt I'm town, tell me who to shoot, and in three turns you'll have confirmation (two if we're talking about suboptimal dps...). That's really the only thing I can do for you here, other than asking you to go through my filter and compare it to my other games... 84 syllogism 11-28-2012 02:38 PM ET (US) And goodkarma can you also claim your flavor, thanks 83 syllogism 11-28-2012 02:37 PM ET (US) Goodkarma why did you think it was possible that CJ and Chronicle were bussed and you were responsible if your ability is to add stacks and the stacks don't activate until you want them to? 82 risk7nuke 11-28-2012 01:41 PM ET (US) Hit CJ if you want to play lurkerbane. I'd probably hit VE though if I were you. 81 goodkarma 11-28-2012 12:06 PM ET (US) 150 damage every three turns may not be OP, but I wouldn't call it useless. If you have a better alternative in mind, I'm listening. But at this point, I still feel CaveJohnson is a good target. 80 risk7nuke 11-28-2012 11:59 AM ET (US) If you don't mind. 79 syllogism 11-28-2012 11:40 AM ET (US) Also risk if you figured out that goodkarma is town, if there is ever a time when town is unsure as to whom to take on a mission, I assume you are going to be pushing for him. 78 syllogism 11-28-2012 11:39 AM ET (US) I don't really care, it seems like a rather useless ability as it takes way to long to do anything. We are never taking Cavejohnson on a mission though so it doesn't matter to me what happens to him. Him flipping might be slightly informative. 77 goodkarma 11-28-2012 11:35 AM ET (US) What do both of you think of targetting CaveJohnson again? For optimal DPS, I will be committing 3 turns to my target so if you can provide an opinion yet today that would be great. 76 goodkarma 11-28-2012 11:32 AM ET (US) @Syllo: The ability I've claimed is the only ability I have. 75 risk7nuke 11-28-2012 11:25 AM ET (US) I figured out goodkarma was town. 74 syllogism 11-28-2012 11:21 AM ET (US) There isn't much to do until we actually get to flip some people or party selection gets more difficult. The reason I'm asking because it appears to me that the primary purpose of this tent is to convince people that you are town, rather than to figure out the alignments of the people you invite. 73 risk7nuke 11-28-2012 11:01 AM ET (US) Why did I invite you. That makes two of us wondering that. I guess I believed it might be able to get you interested in the game again. Clearly it didn't. 72 syllogism 11-28-2012 10:05 AM ET (US) Actually I don't think any answer you give can be alignment indicative. I just find don't find the content very useful, despite initially thinking otherwise. Claims are nice to have though. 71 syllogism 11-28-2012 09:56 AM ET (US) Risk why did you invite me? What is in this quicktopic that you would think I would find useful? Goodkarma have you revealed everything about your role? 70 goodkarma 11-27-2012 08:26 PM ET (US) Wow I'm such an idiot lol... I'll be back tomorrow to clean up my mess. 69 goodkarma 11-27-2012 07:16 PM ET (US) Guess that's not the best shortlist given 25 players in the game... But anyway that's my current thoughts. I would put this in thread, but I know it will distract from the Strong case I'm going to write up soon. 68 goodkarma 11-27-2012 07:13 PM ET (US) Upon review, still a ways away from "solving" this game. With the lack of lynches it's incredibly hard for me to cement my reads. My "shortlist" btw: 1) Iamp - I have a good "gut feel" about this guy I guess you could say. But he still has yet to contribute anything meaningful, which earns him a spot here. Would be willing to give him more time to see if his roleclaim checks out. 2) VE - Shoot him dead. I actually think he might be more likely to be town than scum given his enthusiasm for playing scum. But if an elimination-based approach for finding scum is to work, he has to go. He has not posted enough to make a meaningful read... 3) phagga - Need to reread his filter at some point (but not something I'm focusing on today). He has been pro-town in his contributions, but I can't help but feel he is also "playing it safe" and doing what he can to fly under the radar... 4) Adam - lurker who might need to be shot too. 5) Kita - I'm inclined to believe Marv's read of 3rd party 6) Cave - This guy won't be figured out without getting vigi killed. Shoot first, ask questions later... 7) Z-boson - From my experience with him, he likes to play pretty safe as scum, whereas as town he is rather reckless to the point of being pretty easy to mislynch. He definitely is making his own reads and contributing to thread, but all his reads I would call "safe" ones in that he is targeting almost exclusively lurkers... Null read atm, even after looking into filter. 8) Prox - Tbh I don't know what to do with him. Syllo's input is definitely appreciated, but I don't see him as a strong scum read (closer to null...). 9) Strong - I have a strong scum read based both off meta and on filter. Will discuss soon in thread 10) Toad - Scum 67 goodkarma 11-27-2012 06:15 PM ET (US) Okay, so strongandbig is strong scum read. Moving on through filters... 66 goodkarma 11-27-2012 03:14 PM ET (US) Put a little more thought into it today, and I feel I'm pretty close to "solving the game." I have reduced the list of players to a shortlist of likely scum whose filters I'm going to look at when I get back. All in all, I'm feeling pretty good about this game. I'll put together some stuff when I get back. It should help to focus the sheep . 65 risk7nuke 11-27-2012 01:30 PM ET (US) It wasn't particularly to karma but more general information to everyone I would invite, I felt it was good to avoid a why are we here phase. As for the crystal ball I haven't played CT and never gave it any thought, assume it's just flavor. 64 syllogism 11-27-2012 01:19 PM ET (US) Nevermind about the bonus, I see your previous claim regarding it 63 syllogism 11-27-2012 01:06 PM ET (US) I'm a bit confused as to why Gato's mason tent has a crystal ball. Why did you immediately claim your role name to goodkarma? What was your 1000 AD bonus 62 risk7nuke 11-27-2012 11:35 AM ET (US) Oh btw if I shoot I'm automatically rearming the next cycle. 61 risk7nuke 11-27-2012 11:00 AM ET (US) I can but I thought it was better to use my ability to mason townies then to shoot scum or lurkers when our objective wasn't to kill them anyway. 60 syllogism 11-27-2012 10:49 AM ET (US) I don't understand, shouldn't you then be inviting players who you want to shoot? Can you still invite one more? 59 risk7nuke 11-27-2012 10:43 AM ET (US) I invited Goodkaram because I had a townread on him. The mainreason I picked him over others were the way his posts were logical and constructed so I deemed we'd be able to have good discussion in this qt. It never really got to that due to mutual distrust and time difference. There is more to my role, I wasn't intending to claim this but I don't think it matter holding it back now. I am a conditioned vigilante. I am a fighting robot. Instead of inviting someone to my tent I can attack one player in my tent for 200 damage. Also, Syllo get your head of your arse please. Whether you like it or not you're a leader to this town now. Act like one instead of a little girl bitch. 58 syllogism 11-27-2012 06:39 AM ET (US) Ok I read through all this and it's quite informative, but I wish some of this discussion had occurred in the thread. Risk is there more to your role than what you have revealed in here? 57 goodkarma 11-27-2012 04:56 AM ET (US) @Syllo: Okay. I understand where you're coming from, but it is worth noting I have mislynched Prox before (NMM XXII) and back then he also looked quite scummy... I agree he definitely could be scum, but I'm not convinced he definitely is. I asked nicely for him to fully roleclaim. If he does, and you still believe he's scum, I will have no problem doing my vigi damage thing to him accordingly. However, I still think that the most probable scum in the Acro/Chronicler/Hopeless debacle might be a better target... 56 goodkarma 11-27-2012 03:07 AM ET (US) For what it's worth Syllo I will be looking into Prox's filter closely and followup on my findings tomorrow. If I come to a scum read, I will focus all my damage on him... I can understand your frustration, but ragequitting isn't going to help us at all... 55 goodkarma 11-27-2012 01:32 AM ET (US) That's actually a very good question lol. Hi there btw syllo 54 syllogism 11-27-2012 01:22 AM ET (US) Risk why did you invite goodkarma on n1? 53 goodkarma 11-27-2012 12:25 AM ET (US) Nvm the way Chronicler described how he obtained his damage it couldn't have been me... 52 goodkarma 11-26-2012 07:34 PM ET (US) Chronicler took 150 points damage... If somehow CaveJohnson and him were bussed FML. 51 goodkarma 11-26-2012 09:40 AM ET (US) I find it a little worrying that such an allegedly good player would be so incredibly lazy. Prox is a null read for me, and will stay so until I take a long look into his filter. As for Acro, I could certainly be wrong, but based off everything I've seen of him I'm still of the belief that he's town. And then of course, there's you who is definitely town <3 I can understand him thinking of the scum suspects he has as a part of a larger thought process, but putting it on paper without coming to an actual conclusion (via... actually looking at filters) I find very disturbing. It's a good way of looking active while contributing nothing, and would be something I would expect of scum. However, I still place enough faith in the party mechanics (and day one's outcome) to believe that he is town... I have absolutely no idea why he is being so lazy though. And his most recent behavior is only weakening my strong town read I originally had on him... 50 risk7nuke 11-26-2012 09:17 AM ET (US) What do you think of Syllos recent post? 49 risk7nuke 11-26-2012 04:31 AM ET (US) Yeah, I hate when everything is lined out. I tend to slack of and be to lazy to do any hunting. 48 risk7nuke 11-26-2012 04:29 AM ET (US) I'm not really familliar with all of the lurkers but VE is a person I definitely want to shoot in his face. Adam aswell for being king of the useless but VE. Look consider this. He was really hyped about getting into this game but when actually accomplished in he's done very little. I could understand if he had problem following it since we were 2000 posts in when he joined, However he said he had been paying attention to the game. Normally I think People who replaces in have a unique advantage (IF they followed the thread closely prior to replacing in). This post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessag...urrentpage=110#2186 that Viscera did is what I would expect from a townie replacing in and it proves that Viscera were following the game. But what have he done after that post. Nothing. 47 goodkarma 11-26-2012 02:33 AM ET (US) EBWOP: I mean I suppose Oats's party might fail and we won't get the lynch but I highly doubt it. 46 goodkarma 11-26-2012 02:24 AM ET (US) It's just a little boring out in thread right now for me... We KNOW that we're lynching Toad next cycle, and we KNOW that Oats is going to be elected leader this cycle. So that leaves everyone flailing around speculating about the setup and other meaningless shit... I do feel the case on hopeless, though, has some merit. And that scum very well could be playing a heavily passive game. I definitely gave them too much credit early game as this type of play is clearly sub-optimal in this setup... But going through the list of people most of the ones that are actually active I have as town right now either based off game mechanics or via my own reads of them: Oats, Dieno, Marv, Acro, Keir, Hapa (the one exception), syllo (okay, a second exception)... What we're left with are lurkers and semi-lurkers. Kind of wish town had more KP as: iamp, hopeless, Adam, Viscera, CaveJohnson... are all people I wouldn't mind seeing shot right now. There's no easy way of reading them given how little they've contributed, but as I'm confirming more town by process of elimination it's looking more and more likely that at least some of them are scum. 45 goodkarma 11-26-2012 02:13 AM ET (US) Again, there are more powerful roles out there than mine. Role-check and healing roles are the roles I would prioritize RBing if I were scum. While they might have trouble killing people, the converse is equally (if not even more true) as town. In short, I'm not all that worried about getting RBed But that's probably enough discussion of this. I'm going to let off asking for a single target, as what Acro has said does have some merit... 44 risk7nuke 11-26-2012 01:57 AM ET (US) Yeah everyone likely have ability's but everyone can probably not attack. I got sort of happy I have a vigilante in the masoncircle. I'm more worried about roleblocks then they shooting you because if my theory is correct scum doesn't have enough kp to straight of kill people. 43 goodkarma 11-26-2012 01:51 AM ET (US) I'm pretty confident at this point that all of town is blue. I mean, look at how many role claims we've already had in thread... I'm not worried about drawing scum eyes on me. I haven't done the best job of establishing I'm town, so honestly if they choose to shoot me over a syllo or oats or dieno, I would be quite happy. 42 risk7nuke 11-26-2012 01:48 AM ET (US) You shouldn't talk about coordinating vig shots. If mafia is bluehunting it will draw eyes onto you. 41 goodkarma 11-26-2012 01:35 AM ET (US) I'm a 600 AD character, and it doesn't look like I get any bonuses either. At this point, it looks like I'm committed to either 100 or 150 points on CJ at day's end tomorrow. From everything I've read in his filter, I see no compelling reason not to do the full 150 pts of damage. 40 risk7nuke 11-25-2012 04:23 PM ET (US) Clocking out for today, I never read up on CJ, I spent so much time on mafia today I just felt like taking some time off. I will try to get around to it tomorrow first thing when I get home. Btw who are you and was any timeperiod mentioned in your rolepm that indicate that you'd be stronger in missions at that time. My pm says I hangs out in the millennium fair in 1000 AD but it really doesn't sound like I get any bonuses. also, sorry I got a bit frustrated. I was feeling mighty nervous about you and I didn't consider you feeling as paranoid as I was. It seems obvious in hindsight. 39 goodkarma 11-25-2012 03:08 PM ET (US) Just learned that apparently once I reach max charges they auto discharge... That makes my role slightly better, at least. 38 goodkarma 11-25-2012 02:38 PM ET (US) Thinking about it a bit more, even if CJ has been a little more helpful lately, he clearly lied about his role and has said several scummy things such as "my intention is to survive to endgame..." and "Syllo has taken himself to be out of the running and we should respect that." on day one. In addition of course, to the anti-town let's kill newbie players mentality he had day one (although this particular point may not be alignment indicative). At the very least he is profoundly anti-town town. But I still feel there's a decent chance he's scum even if he's played better today. I only can put three stacks on the guy before unloading anyway, so one more this cycle, and unload next cycle for 150 damage. I'm hoping that kills him, but based off the two flips and my own role PM I'm a bit pessimistic . 37 goodkarma 11-25-2012 01:36 PM ET (US) Okay. 36 risk7nuke 11-25-2012 01:14 PM ET (US) I think I'll try to invite syllogism this cycle. 35 risk7nuke 11-25-2012 01:09 PM ET (US) Okey, I believe you. Your actions fits for a dayvig profile plus mafia would not likely target CJ. I guess we'll just have to be carefull with who we bring in but as you say there are alot of people looking very town. Not sure what to advice you do with CJ, I've not really payed him much attention. I'll read up on him. 34 goodkarma 11-25-2012 01:01 PM ET (US) If you're bringing in someone like Keirathi anyways, he is all but confirmed town in my book so claiming here won't hurt anything. 33 goodkarma 11-25-2012 01:01 PM ET (US) Just did... Honestly I don't care it's a bit lame anyway, and it's that fastest way of having you believe that I'm town. My current target is CaveJohnson since day one, and I'm currently debating if I want to add another stack on him or unload for 100 points of damage. He is actually contributing (at least more so than he usually does) and not proactively trolling, which leads me to wonder if he actually could be town. 32 goodkarma 11-25-2012 12:59 PM ET (US) I have a unique vigi-type role, but instead of directly damaging someone each turn I can choose to either: -->Put up a stack of potential damage -->Unload the stacks I have and actually damage the person e.g.: turn 1 I would put up a stack (let's say 50 potential), turn 2 I would add another stack (bringing it to 100), turn 3 I would actually unload 2 stacks of damage on the target (said target takes 100 points of damage). I am locked onto the person I choose and cannot change targets until I unload my stacks after I initially target him... 31 risk7nuke 11-25-2012 12:57 PM ET (US) If you describe your role and ability's it could be a risk if I invite other people here. 30 goodkarma 11-25-2012 12:53 PM ET (US) I can share my thoughts and reads with you, but perhaps the best way to convince you would be to describe my role and abilities. 29 goodkarma 11-25-2012 12:52 PM ET (US) True dat. One of the reasons I have not "warmed up to you" is that I myself am a little suspicious of the circumstances. It would be a little far-fetched, but not impossible that your ability and role are correct but you are scum-aligned, given the nature of this game. Gato is someone you beat up as an enemy in chrono trigger, so I could visualize him taking a scum alignment... Add to that that outside of knowing that you are a mason looking into your filter I would lean more towards a null read. The indignation with which you describe being a mason though leaves me to believe that you are indeed town aligned. And, it was a bit far-fetched to think otherwise, but I still prefer to be cautious... 28 risk7nuke 11-25-2012 12:44 PM ET (US) I wouldn't take you on a party because I don't know if you're mafia or not, it's not the same. And the more time pass you're giving me more and more reason to doubt your alignment. If you don't want to out of the blue nominate me I can understand that because that could raise eyebrows. But you're doing nothing to slowly warm up to me in the thread either. And if you're scum you can only spy on this chat as long as you're alive. 27 goodkarma 11-25-2012 12:34 PM ET (US) Hopefully that last portion I just posted explains that. With as many power roles as there are presently in this game, why would you think, as scum, I would feel motivated to roleblock you? People have claimed role-check abilities, damaging vigi-type abilities, HEALING abilities... With abilities that powerful, why would they bother to roleblock you??? Especially considering that if I were really scum, I would be able to spy on everything that goes on in this chat. Why on earth would I ruin that? 26 goodkarma 11-25-2012 12:30 PM ET (US) Finally, add to that that if I were to out of the blue nominate you as a party member, many people would be confused / suspicious. It would be semi-apparent that my choice was motivated by something else (such as a shared QT). And for what it's worth, I would fully expect that you wouldn't choose me for a party at this point either... Because to be perfectly honest, you shouldn't. There are far better choices right now. 25 risk7nuke 11-25-2012 12:28 PM ET (US) That's fucking irrelevant. You KNOW I'm a mason. I find it's pretty fucking suspicious that I invite you here and the next cycle I'm roleblocked. 24 goodkarma 11-25-2012 12:27 PM ET (US) Also, the choice of several party members is based more off game mechanics than off of actual reads (such as TheChronicler claim, party members from first day being clear choices, etc...). 23 goodkarma 11-25-2012 12:24 PM ET (US) You have not been one of the more active members this game, and sadly not being super active means less respect. It also means you've given less time to discussing your scum reads, etc. There are others in game right now who have worked much harder to establish themselves as town. But if it makes you feel any better, I'm kind of in the same spot right now. I really haven't worked as hard as I should have been coming up with cases and participating in scumhunting in general. That gets noticed, and I can understand why others are not considering me for a party spot right now. 22 risk7nuke 11-25-2012 12:11 PM ET (US) Why am I not in your list of people you're okey sending. 21 risk7nuke 11-25-2012 08:49 AM ET (US) I might switch oats too keirathi since oats is also outed (name) 20 risk7nuke 11-25-2012 08:48 AM ET (US) I don't like the the current teams at all. I see no reason why oats and dienosore should be sent instead of syllogism. Dienosore especially risky since it looks like this magus guy is killing the shit out of him. (not familliar with ct lore, but it's what I read in the thread) 19 goodkarma 11-24-2012 08:25 PM ET (US) Okay. I posted that because I'd rather not waste time on party selection, and spend more time scumhunting. Syllo has proven himself to have sound judgement thus far, and is all but confirmed town. Therefore, just leaving it to him so we can determine who is scum seems like a sound idea to me at this point in the game. 18 risk7nuke 11-24-2012 08:09 PM ET (US) Okey Grey says it did. Looks like it's just you and me for another cycle. 17 risk7nuke 11-24-2012 08:03 PM ET (US) I'm not sure if my roleblock prevented me from inviting Keirathi. awaiting modconfirmation. 16 risk7nuke 11-24-2012 06:42 PM ET (US) Hmm nevermind then, I might not be here in an hour. Anyway I've invited Keirathi. 15 goodkarma 11-24-2012 06:35 PM ET (US) Yup. 14 risk7nuke 11-24-2012 06:10 PM ET (US) Are you here? 13 goodkarma 11-24-2012 01:47 PM ET (US) I agree. Even though his town meta may be a bit off in looney, he seems to share reads, and actually... care. I believe he's still the best lynch choice, especially with syllo backing his lynch. As for kita, I believe there's a very good chance he will flip scum too. I like Marv's case against him. Everything Kita's done to date has been safe. Even presently, focusing on hopeless who imho is an easy target. TheChronicler is the only candidate whose lynch I feel would be a mistake. I'm okay with either Sand or Kita being lynched today. 12 risk7nuke 11-24-2012 01:28 PM ET (US) Sorry I've been away for most of the day, I'll curse myself if Sandroba flips town, I think djo said he had done this as town before but I've never seen it and I checked looney, it didn't feel like this. He felt more irritated. 11 goodkarma 11-24-2012 01:05 AM ET (US) Barring some new revelation, I'm sticking to pushing a Sandroba lynch today. 10 goodkarma 11-23-2012 04:05 PM ET (US) Adam is your average lurker that may or may not be scum. Definitely a good vigi target, but maybe not the best lynching target for today. 9 risk7nuke 11-23-2012 12:42 PM ET (US) What do you think of Adam4167 He's done almost nothing. Adam was quick to vote syllogism and quick to vote sandroba but other then that he feels completely inactive, his posts doesn't feel like they are going anywhere and he doesn't follow them up. 8 risk7nuke 11-23-2012 12:24 PM ET (US) I quite agree on marv, he's not been playing his usual self but this isn't a usual game and during the first cycle it revolved far less around scumhunting then a normal game. Furthermore the only real reason he's been under suspicion is because of his reputation. He's one of the more active players in the game. As for sandroba, if he's not going to come back or if he comes back with something halfassed I'm going to assume he's just miserable and he rolled scum. But well lets see what happens. 7 goodkarma 11-23-2012 11:52 AM ET (US) I would not be surprised if Sandroba flipped scum, but looking at what he's actually said to date he has not acted scummy. The scummiest thing about him is his complete nonpresence since early game. I'm inclined to give him the chance to redeem himself. 6 goodkarma 11-23-2012 11:47 AM ET (US) I am against lynching marv right now. I am nowhere near having a clear read on him, but am actually leaning toward a town one atm. As for who to lynch presently, I am honestly not sure. I don't like how the majority of votes are on trolls / lurkers. I am going to need to seriously go through everyone's filters again to see if anyone stands out. 5 risk7nuke 11-23-2012 10:21 AM ET (US) Have any thoughts on the lynch? What do you think of marv? 4 risk7nuke 11-23-2012 05:43 AM ET (US) Yeah it's fine, I just woke up now. I'm really wondering where sandroba have gone. I'm normally very wary of people who disappears when they are under pressure. I've had too much bad experience with mafia avoiding lynches that way. 3 goodkarma 11-23-2012 05:01 AM ET (US) How's it going? Long Thanksgiving, and now it's pretty late . I'm headed to bed talk to you tomorrow. 2 risk7nuke 11-22-2012 06:30 PM ET (US) Hi, I am Gato and this is my masontent. I can invite one person each night up to a maximum of 4 people. 1 GreY 11-19-2012 11:49 AM ET (US) Its the inside of a Tent! Its strangely dark and there appears to be a Crystal ball on a table. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
| ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Getting a "meta"-read on phagga is near-impossible. He's only played as town, and he's played far worse as town than this in some of his games... So, I'm leaning toward a (very slight) town read on phagga now. Scummy play doesn't mean scum, and his "indignant townie" act he's been putting up in our last few exchanges feels genuine... However, that he is so hesitant to actually make his own cases doesn't earn him any townie points... I will be reassessing my read on him next lynch (if there is one). CaveJohnson Vote: That leaves CaveJohnson. Literally everyone else I have pegged as town (or third party) right now. He prides himself as being an unknown, but where everyone else works to establish themselves as town he sticks out as the remaining scum... This is by process of elimination, and not entirely based off Cave's play. From everything I've seen and read, I'd expect him to always be a liar and anti-town. The one thing, however that does still stick out in my mind is how insistent he seems to be on survival. Why would survival matter so much to him if he is really town??? Therefore, my vote goes to: ##Vote: CaveJohnson I look forward to hearing everyone's cases this lynch cycle. With the damage Cave's taken I find it hard to believe we couldn't finish him off with a few vigi shots. However, looking at my list, he's the last viable lynch candidate... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
As for risk, I really don't get why so many of you are convinced he's scum. It doesn't make sense from a scum perspective to waste so much time inviting townies when he could be hammering them. As scum, I would totally just invite one or maybe 2 townies, tell them I couldn't invite anymore, and beat them dead. The fact that he thought so heavily of his abilities in a town circle-type capacity is definitely not a scum line of thinking. It was suboptimal as town to be sure, but I can't think of any scum motivation for it... And that leaves CaveJohnson... Am I the only one seriously considering lynching him? I know it's not the most exciting thing to be lynching a lying troll, but everyone else at this point is accounted for... My 2cents, for what it's worth. Lynching risk is a mistake. Might as well tell you here so if you follow through on it I can say I told you so later... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On December 06 2012 06:48 CaveJohnson wrote: I find that rather offensive considering I'm one of the only reasons why we even got a lynch this cycle. Pure speculation... Do you even have scum suspects. Or are you too busy being a useless troll? | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On December 06 2012 12:07 iamperfection wrote: i have just added this as a win condition for myself so we need a topics to discuss while we twiddle are thumbs waiting for risk.nuke to amaze us tomorrow. 1. Who thinks the need a heal the most and why. (By the way i cant heal myself )2. Look real closely at your role do you think their is a possibility of you getting stronger? (i mainly think i can because i have numbers next to my abilities) 3.Talk about iamperfection in general in how great he his and why you could all be a little better if you were even just 1% more like him. 4. Lavos preparation. Hypothetically we dont lynch scum and have to select a party again does anyone feel in particular that they want to be on the party? (i do because i think i can get stronger and because i want to. discuss If you want a discussion topic: how about other lynch candidates? You know, actually talk about scum suspects on a lynch cycle... =/ And as for Lavos: we have no idea what Greymist is going to throw at us... Any "Lavos preparation" discussion is pure speculation. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Lynching is serious business. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
##Epoch: Middle Ages | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Hope I'm wrong... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On December 07 2012 10:28 kitaman27 wrote: Would someone do me a favor and refresh my memory on the role claims we've gotten from these four individuals? I'd look myself, but with the size of the thread, it would probably be easier just to ask -_- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgRwUW7S2s2HdHFnd1J0T2hzWmNKTmR5R2xUZ1dzNnc#gid=0 | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
| ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
As best I can tell from the spreadsheet, no one has an ability that does 75 damage directly to a target (the closest I can find is 75 indirect damage as effect of Hapa's claimed "flamethrower" ability. So exactly whose ability could phagga have "copied" when he shot me? | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
##Lynch: austinmcc ##Epoch: Prehistory | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On December 08 2012 11:51 austinmcc wrote: Okay. I've taken the time to read over Phagga's filter. This is a bit bass-ackwards, because I'm already looking at him to be the scum in our unclaimed group, and so reading his early game is shaded by that. But what I get from his filter is...that he thinks goodkarma is scum. Sometimes. Most times. For a little while no, then yes again, and now no. Other than that...I pick up a couple things that should be pointed out. (1) Phagga wants scumhunting. He does not want townhunting. + Show Spoiler + On November 21 2012 16:54 phagga wrote: Ok, looks like I need to clarify myself. Townhunting is stupid. Do you know why? Because scum can fake it to no end, since they know who is not scum. Talking about who is townie makes it much easier for scum to blend in, which then makes it much harder for town to choose the right people for their teams. Yes, there may be multiple factions in this game. Still, if we force scum to scumhunt they are more likely to trip as if they can just give their townreads out. So, no, I disagree that this game revolves around townhunting. We find out who is townie by scumhunting, not by townhunting. Phagga proceeds to spend the game...not doing much scumhunting. Acro picked up on this early, but at least within Phagga's filter I don't see much of him responding to this line of questioning being continued. (2) A list of phagga's scum reads (I'm going to leave out a bunch of links, but there are very few "x is scum" and a tremendous amount of wishywashy "x might be scum, might not be scum, just saying' " posts): Drazerk, GK (but hasn't gone through filter), BioSC (based on someone else's comment it seems) - + Show Spoiler + On November 23 2012 18:05 phagga wrote: My list with reads on everyone has one person painted in bright red: CaveJohnson. That's were my vote goes for now. However, my list is not up to date. I will try to go through several filters and update it, so I might make a more definite vote before Kita has to make his prediction. People who are also red in my list: - Goodkarma, although I REALLY have to go through his filter now. Have not done that yet. - BioSC, lurking hardcore although he was very excited pregame, as someone mentioned Other people I want to look into/know more about: - Sandroba, I read his filter yesterday. I want to hear more from him and what he says about the current accusations - Hopeless1der, I have "looks shady, check filter" note on him, but I don't know why anymore. Will clear this up. ##Vote CaveJohnson Then GK definitely, after reading filter. Then GK isn't scum - + Show Spoiler + On November 26 2012 07:27 phagga wrote: Ok, I've updated my read on GK and I would no longer lynch him. When the D2 lynch came to a close, he asked people to consolidate on either sandroba or Toad. He tried to shut down any discussion that would bring in new candidates. considering that Sandro is confirmed scum and Toad is very very likely scum, I don't see the mafia motivation behind is behaviour. also, the way he acts D3 seems more pro-town than on the first day. All in all, I put GK on null for the moment. Then GK still not scum, but phagga angry with him - + Show Spoiler + On November 28 2012 20:32 phagga wrote: You have some nerve. I have not seen a single case of you this game, your filter is almost completely devoid of any scumhunting, and you go and lecture dieno on how to play? Dieno achieved something in this game that you have not yet done, he has established himself as town. That is already worth a lot for town. You may not agree with his methods of doing it, but he was one of the fastest established townies in this game. But you come in the thread regularly and have nothing better to do than to mock him. Do you think this is creating the kind of town atmosphere we need to win this game? What is the benefit for town of you calling him incompetent, bad and mocking his playstile? I don't see one. Ah, finally you make a case! Oh noes, you couldn't be arsed to make a case, instead you throw out this worthless list where you throw some dirt around with barely any explanation. Like I care. If you are too drunk to play, don't play. If you play, I don't care about your state, i will hold you responsible for your actions. This is weird. At this point, phagga has put forth 2 scumreads. (1) GK, which he has retracted. (2) Drazerk, who he didn't push, and hasn't mentioned really at all since initially saying he found Drazerk scummy. phagga is getting on GK's case about creating a good town atmosphere and about a lack of scumhunting, when he's retracted 1/2 his scumhunting and isn't doing anything with the other half Back to GK being scum, along with hopeless1der - + Show Spoiler + On November 29 2012 01:32 phagga wrote: Note that phagga never puts forth "Scummy on GK again" on his own. He's asked what he's thinking about GK after that last post, he responds that he's changed his mind and GK is scummy. BTW, hopeless1der is now scummy too, just out of nowhere1. After his behaviour today I'm rather leaning scum on him again. Reason is that his behaviour was rather disruptive imho, and that is rather scum motivated. Also, z-boson made me rethink the whole bussing-situation, and I don't feel as sure about my conclusion from last time anymore. So, leaning scum on GK. Pre-Edit: What also really bothered me was that GK was posting this huge list with 11 people on it. That's half of the remaining player base. The problem is, people are slightly bored in this game, they try too hard to find scum and start to misinterpret situations because of confirmation bias. The want to find scum so hard that they scum where none is. Syllo actually pointed this out a few pages ago, and took this as a reason to take a break IIRC. Looking at GKs list from that point of view shows how counterproductive it is to towns interest. You don't want half of the town chasing the other half of the town. You want people trying to make proper cases of one or two other people, and show how the actions of their suspects fit a mafia agenda (or how they don't). Those cases don't have to be long, but they should have a clear focus and a proper analysis. Then others can discuss it and agree or disagree, which will lead most of the times on a reasonable result. GKs list mainly spreads distrust and is therefore counterproductive. 2. I remember going over Hopeless' filter a few days ago and setting him null on my list. Then Hope came up with this strange theorie about what if Toad flips town, followed by TC saying that Acro and Hope are of opposite alignement. Then he wanted to be part of the party to show that he is town, which was a red flag for me. Since then he is marked as scum. Regarding your post, I like the point about his sentence that he will not bring any last minute shenanigans. I mean, this is what everyone expects, why does he feel he has to announce this? seems like he is missing a townie mindest. The "Bring it, bitches" is interesting because he first takes a defensive stance in his answers to TCs case, but then tries to look aggressive with that last sentence. It does not seem authentic, but I don't think it's alignement indicative. 3. I'm running out of time I want to go through Kita's filter again, I don't like to just make comments about a person without some facts behind it. I hope to give you answer until the deadline.Which reminds me, I haven't voted yet. BRB with vote. He gets called out for not following-up Drazerk read, responds - + Show Spoiler + On November 30 2012 08:14 phagga wrote: He improved. There was no need push him anymore on D3. Also, i was absent of the thread for most of D2 (which I announced beforehand). Regarding the last post, yes, I was pretty sure at that point that he is at least not scum. However, i was overeager when I wrote that post, I should have gone into this more cautiously, not revealing that much about me. Says risk "sounds like scum," but nothing more - + Show Spoiler + On December 03 2012 17:18 phagga wrote: That post sounds like scum. you have posted almost nothing in the last 72 hours, and all you do is trying to judge a player on is claimed abilities. Hapa has posted a lot in the last few hours, why don't you comment on that? Now strongandbig scum based on syllo's tracking - + Show Spoiler + On December 03 2012 20:33 phagga wrote: @risk.nuke I also still would like to know what you think of hapa. Regarding SnB: Having two damaging abilities, him visiting Djo who is in the party is damning in any case. However, I am also confident in my scum read on Goodkarma, so I am happy to lynch either of them. For now, my vote stays on GK. Note: First time he's called out snb, really mentioned snb at all recently risk sounds like scum? So...scum, right? Nope. - + Show Spoiler + On December 04 2012 01:33 phagga wrote: z-boson/austin: I noticed that z-boson made several unclear statetements which he had to rectract later. I personally already thought that it was probably only a problem of him being busy and working in haste, which resulted in those errors. Nevertheless, I asked him about this because I wanted to see his reaction. He never replied and got replaced shortly after, which seems to confirm that he was just to busy to formulate properly, and that there is no deeper meaning to this. Austins post on risk.nuke pretty much mirrors my thoughts. I agree with his analysis that risk was playing rather protown D1, but since then his activity has gone down badly. I would like to see more from Austin to get a better picture of his alignemnet, but currently I do not think he is scum. risk.nuke: As said, his early play looks slightly townie, however recently his activity dropped hard. I would really like to hear from him why this is the case. Also, I would like to hear from him what he thinks of Hapa. @Syllo, is risk more active in the mason circle? My scum reads are snb and GK. Regarding hopeless (who I have still marked as scum): I was also looking at a series of posts that discussed Hopeless' night actions and if they add up, but I'm currently unable to find it. If anyone knows where it is, a friendly pointer would be very nice. @Acro for your spreadsheet, I was the one dealing damage to Goodkarma last night. First mention of VE in a while - + Show Spoiler + On December 04 2012 17:29 phagga wrote: Regarding VE: Being inactive on the verge of a modkill does not really say anything about his alignement. If it turns out that he is just going to post again this circle to not get modkilled, then he is mainly vigi-stuff. If he still wants to participate in this game properly, I expect him to step up his game drastically. risk scum for inactivity, 1:30 til deadline - + Show Spoiler + On December 07 2012 06:29 phagga wrote: About risk.nuke For him it is pretty much the opposite of Hope. I liked his early play as I explained earlier. However, for almost a week now he has gone silent. It was pointed out that he has not called a person scum or made a case. I asked him several times for his read on hapa and never got an answer. His recent play is worrying. He promised a defense and a case, and now, less than two hours before deadline, he has not posted it. I therefore assume he is not playing in towns interest, which warrants a lynch. About goodkarma: I wanted to update my read on him too, but did not find the time. I will do so in the next cycle, I should have a lot of time on my hand from tomorrow evening on (wife and kids are gone for a week). Since I seem to be the only one still having him marked as scum, i give him the benefit of the doubt until I have been able to go through his filter again. About the Epoch: I am happy following the majority again regarding the time we travel to. ##Unvote Lynch: Goodkarma ##Lynch: risk.nuke ##Epoch: Middle Ages And with this I'm off to bed. See you guys tomorrow. (3) His votes on confirmed scum Sandroba - + Show Spoiler + On November 25 2012 07:53 phagga wrote: Not finished with reading everything. Not feeling sure enough with Toad yet. I can agree to a Sandro lynch. His reluctance to defend himself, the way he talked about his scumreads (only mentioning names, barely any reasoning) and his lurking when under pressure are enough reasons for me to justify a vote. ##Unvote ##Vote Sandroba ***Quote tag messing up and can't seem to fix. Rest is editorializing by me*** Right before deadline. Hasn't read, sidesteps talking about toad. Is okay lynching Sandroba, but hasn't mentioned Sandroba as scum before. Toad - + Show Spoiler + On November 29 2012 09:17 phagga wrote: ##Vote Toadesstern He has mentioned toad ONCE I believe at this point. Not as scum. I know you guys had like...matching checks on him, but at this point, phagga just hasn't talked about toad AT ALL, hasn't interacted, hasn't read him, doesn't touch him ***Quote tag messing up and can't seem to fix. Rest is editorializing by me*** He has mentioned toad ONCE I believe at this point. Not as scum. I know you guys had like...matching checks on him, but at this point, phagga just hasn't talked about toad AT ALL, hasn't interacted, hasn't read him, doesn't touch him Did not vote snb risk.nuke - + Show Spoiler + On December 07 2012 06:29 phagga wrote: About risk.nuke For him it is pretty much the opposite of Hope. I liked his early play as I explained earlier. However, for almost a week now he has gone silent. It was pointed out that he has not called a person scum or made a case. I asked him several times for his read on hapa and never got an answer. His recent play is worrying. He promised a defense and a case, and now, less than two hours before deadline, he has not posted it. I therefore assume he is not playing in towns interest, which warrants a lynch. About goodkarma: I wanted to update my read on him too, but did not find the time. I will do so in the next cycle, I should have a lot of time on my hand from tomorrow evening on (wife and kids are gone for a week). Since I seem to be the only one still having him marked as scum, i give him the benefit of the doubt until I have been able to go through his filter again. About the Epoch: I am happy following the majority again regarding the time we travel to. ##Unvote Lynch: Goodkarma ##Lynch: risk.nuke ##Epoch: Middle Ages And with this I'm off to bed. See you guys tomorrow. My overall takeaway is that for someone who D1 was guns blazing "Don't townhunt, gotta scumhunt," phagga has not made good on that. In some odd ways. (1) His scumreads pop in and out of nowhere. Drazerk was scum, then he wasn't. No update, no nothing, and more or less no discussion of Drazerk for the rest of the game. GK is scum, not scum, scum. Never gives a scumread on Sandroba, just agrees and drops a vote. Never gives a scumread OR MENTIONS Toad, drops the vote. Never drops a scumread on snb. Drops a scumread on risk during the last day, prior to that one of phagga's only interactions with risk was to say a post of risk's sounded scummy but risk was town. Which is fine, that happens. But it's curious when it's basically the limit of your interaction with confirmed scum. Again, I'm coming for a point of thinking he's the scum in the group, but the malleability of his scumreads lets him do whatever he wants. Add onto that that he never seems to volunteer a read. There's always a request, and he notes that some read has changed, without ever having thought he might want to note that before needing to be asked. (2) His votes on scum as a whole lack reasoning and are almost always 11th hour. Sandroba vote is 7 minutes before deadline, and he says he hasn't read everything, seems to just be jumping on board. Toad vote is just a toad vote, nothing more, but then he backs off later in the day, worried about a pardoner. No vote on snb risk.nuke vote is 1:30 until deadline, after he was townie on risk earlier I secretly like the pardoner stuff, because I loves me some paranoia, but...his votes ALWAYS limp in on scum, bar Toad who was checked. They limp in right at deadline. There's rarely a mention of the suspect before the vote, and in risk's case, the mention was that he "sounded like scum" but was townie. So, for now : ##vote phagga We have unexplained damage. He fits the do-er of that damage better than others for me. We have very little scumhunting. We have very odd interactions with confirmed scum, and...curious votes. One thing I want to bring up though is the waiting is odd. He posts on GK all day every day, and waits to vote scum until last-minute. But he doesn't...he's not trying to save them much. Apart from risk, he's not going around calling the others townie (He had a weird spat with someone who called snb scum, saying we didn't know snb scum, but ... that whole exchange was funky and I left it out). That's the one thing I'm puzzled by, is why is he waiting until last minute but not trying to save these guys. He can't be waiting on anyone else, so I don't get the delay and the odd votes. THAT Oatsmaster, is more like a wall of text. A case worth sheeping. ##Unvote ##Vote: Phagga | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On December 09 2012 03:48 austinmcc wrote: If I were scum, I seemed to already be on the chopping block. Why would I heal town in order to push back another cycle? Based on toads machine, scum wants to summon lavos early, so why would I not just die? This is a terribly worded question... Themed or no, scum wants to stay alive as long as possible this game... My brain hurts trying to wrap my head around how town could say this... For me, it's a very close call between if you or phagga should be lynched today. Phagga has literally done nothing useful all game. I have trouble believing he is town, given how hard he's tunneled me (to the exclusion of any other real scumhunting...) even when it is completely apparent to everyone else that I'm town... But on the other hand, I believe that Z-Boson would use his night actions more reasonably as town... Shielding just doesn't make any sense... And neither does this comment... ##Unvote ##Lynch: austinmcc I strongly hope we can try vig-ing phagga tonight as well. As best I can tell, at least one of the two is scum... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
I should have dealt him 150 damage. Scummm readz plox? | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
##Epoch: End of Time Austin because by elimination he has to be scum. End of Time in honor of CJ. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
The guy has been fairly disinterested for a long stretch here, which is neither town nor scum indicative given how tired we all are of this game... However, what's stood out most to me about his play is that the only suspect I clearly recall him pressuring was phagga. A large chunk of this game he's been subjected to the rather bad "Your night actions don't check out. Therefore, scum..." argument (bad because there was no scum motive for it). I had no problem with him defending his actions, but the zeal with which he did it did stand out to me. I mean, on a day where no one was seriously pushing to lynch him he repeatedly commented on how he wanted a case to defend against and in the process did little to no scumhunting at all... Add to that the scumshot that Hapa allegedly took at a time where he clearly was not the optimal target for scum (why not syllo or dieno???) and things feel a bit off. Further, it's been commented before that flamethrower is a rather ridiculous ability for town to have due to all the secondary damage town would likely take. Speculation to be sure, but something to think about. If for whatever reason austin really is town, and the last scum really has done a good job of "blending in," then Hapa's filter would be the first filter I'd dive into. I bet Hapa will angrily ask for a case to defend against now, but I just wanted to throw this out there as something to think about. + Show Spoiler + Sadly, my motivation too is pretty low right now given the length of this game T.T... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
| ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On December 10 2012 13:05 Hapahauli wrote: *angrily asks for a case* But seriously... SnB, VE, and Risk tried to get me lynched. Therefore I clearly should be a scum suspect. I will have to take a look at this, when I'm more motivated... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
As for Hapa, VE and risk both very weakly pushed the idea of him being scum. Strong might be the only one who was somewhat aggressive with it, but come voting time he turned around and voted me..., so I really don't see a hard lynch push from any of the three. It definitely is odd that all three decided Hapa was worth the attention they gave, but the soft push for Hapa being scum by them does nothing imho to establish Hapa as town. If syllo hasn't already, I'd RB him this next turn. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Looks like we should be doing in excess of 500 damage a night, meaning it should only take at most 3-4 turns to kill Lavos. Perma-RB Toad, focus fire Lavos, win... Kind of a pain this game is going to take multiple additional turns to resolve though... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
(barring super-crazy OP damage from Lavos...) | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Are we going to mass claim remaining HP to coordinate healers' efforts? Discuss. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Given the fallout flamethrower makes on secondary targets, is using it on Lavos really a good idea? Lavos would be really lame if it only targeted one person at a time... So you should realistically expect that you will be causing more damage to town than to Lavos. As such, Toad may ironically be a better target for you atm... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Not counting Hopeless as allegedly based off self-inflicted damage, don't know if he can keep up any dps... Adam also may contribute damage by guessing correctly who dies, but there's no way of knowing if he ever will for sure... Further not counting Hapa's 100-HP damage ability as it's a bit reckless to be doing so much secondary damage to town... Syllo/Robo: 75 damage/night Kita: 100 damage/night Me: 50 damage/night average (150 damage every 3 nights...) ~225/night total from night actions Given that no one took any damage last night, we can assume that all scum minus the revived Toad are dead... Meaning that with claimed 3rd-party Acro, there are 11 town remaining. 11 town * 25 + 200 damage = 475 damage/night 700 damage/night, or: dead Lavos in 3 turns with 100 damage overkill. Realistically speaking, townies will probably die, so it will be very close... The absolute most it should take + Show Spoiler + (barring that Lavos can absolutely massacre town...) Obviously, Syllo, Robo, and Kita should be high healing priorities, with me being a distant fourth given how much weaker my vigi ability is. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On December 11 2012 10:02 Hopeless1der wrote: Toad might still be able to Mammon Machine HP back into Lavos by stealing from townies. Says in Greymist's post that scum can't target Lavos, so this is impossible. Further, Toad should be perma-RB'ed so he shouldn't ever be able to use his ability anyway... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On December 11 2012 09:48 Oatsmaster wrote: Well I got hit for 400 damage, fun times. Full Claim. I have 3 abilities. I can only use 1 at a time Rocket punch deals 50 damage but cant be used twice in a row. Poximity bomb deals 100 damage to whoever visits me Heal Beam heals/protects my target for 100 hp. The 75 damage was from a pistol I got by being the leader of a successful party. Just to clarify, was this damage over the entire game or from last night? | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On December 11 2012 10:09 Oatsmaster wrote: Last night only, I was on full health before that. Looks like scum's last ditch effort to snipe someone. But if that's the case, wouldn't that imply there's another scum? Because austin should have been lynched before night actions went through... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
All we have to do to win is kill Lavos anyway. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On December 11 2012 21:27 Acrofales wrote: @GK: mind claiming who you've been charging shots on these last few days? How much did you shoot Drazerk for and what have you been doing since then? As I stated previously, I should have done 150 damage to Drazerk the night he died. As for what I've done since then, I haven't charged up on anyone. With the dwindling number of scum, there was a very high likelihood I would either do damage to a scum that was going to be lynched anyway or be forced to do damage to a townie so I could later damage Lavos. As such, I've done nothing since then, until tonight when I'm obviously charging up on Lavos. Tbh, past night actions are a bit irrelevant now since we win when we kill Lavos, meaning outside of RB-ing likely scum there's not much we will realistically be able to do about them... I also am a bit upset that no one discusses the other points I've brought up. Is anyone else worried that if Hapa uses flamethrower on Lavos he will end up secondary blasting half of town??? | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
| ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
I agree it would be nice if some people helped Acro. I mean, he was one of the most helpful people this game... Also, Lavos hits like a wet paper towel... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
So tonight everyone should focus on Lavos. Let Acro deal with Toad. As for remaining scum in this game: don't really care tbh. As long as we do reasonable damage with vigi actions this cycle, I really don't see any way scum can come back even if 2 scum + Lavos were able to shoot into town tonight... Finally: Can we change night cycles from 24 hours to 1? This game is over, and I need closure | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
This was an amazing game | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
But the OP clearly states that this game isn't necessarily perfectly balanced given the highly themed nature. Honestly, everyone should have known what they were getting into, and even if it was slightly town-favored people should be okay with that. A Little Feedback: Coolest Scum Ability: I actually really like the frame bus ability Sandroba had. Coolest Town Ability: Janus the Cat's protection ability, although imho it felt pretty weird he had so much HP. I mean he's a cat. How did he get more HP than Fiona or King Guardia? Something like 200-300HP would have been more appropriate IMHO, especially considering how strong the ability was as shown with Dieno not dying for so long. About the Lavos Fight: In retrospect, I would agree with the sentiment that Lavos could have hit a little harder. Or maybe have a smaller-damage large-scale AOE damage attack like he did AND a 2-3 target heavy-hitting attack (like 300 damage), with alternation between the two. It did feel a bit harsh for scumteam to have Lavos die via a kill mechanic based largely on how many town were alive. I would also think that having scum passively count against the town KP (at a rate of 75x, where x is number of alive scum, for example) also makes sense and would help make bringing him in early more advantageous for scumteam. Further, buffing his damage some for each alive scum member would have been sensible. Just a few thoughts on what was otherwise a very well-thought out boss fight. A brief Q.Q about "hidden conditions": I understand the whole point of hidden conditions is you don't know about them, but still I couldn't help but feel that some kind of heads-up as simple as a "You have a secret power-up. Go forth and find it." would have been nice. The hidden condition for my particular powerup was abstract enough there was a good chance I still wouldn't have gotten it, but not knowing I even had one to look for meant I took for granted that I didn't have one. And trying to figure out the conditions to unlock it would have added something fun to strive for in the game. I will probably make some kind of post about my thoughts on my play and a few others' this game, but I'm going to let it wait a few days. Until then, I hope this feedback is helpful in the hosts' future endevours. (And a special thank you also to Mementoss for co-hosting this. I had absolutely no idea that co-hosting was so much work.) | ||
| ||
![[image loading]](http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/837/f64/b8f/resized/da-fuck-meme-generator-da-fuck-297845.jpg)
