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@risk.nuke I also still would like to know what you think of hapa.
Regarding SnB: Having two damaging abilities, him visiting Djo who is in the party is damning in any case. However, I am also confident in my scum read on Goodkarma, so I am happy to lynch either of them. For now, my vote stays on GK.
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On December 03 2012 21:24 kitaman27 wrote:Good news  Phagga, if you're not golem, would you mind revealing your actual role name? The reason I asked S&B to commit to checking you is because I couldn't come up with anything else that matches the flavor. Still waiting for VE to reveal the reasoning for his night action.
What do you hope to achieve by knowing my role name?
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z-boson/austin: I noticed that z-boson made several unclear statetements which he had to rectract later. I personally already thought that it was probably only a problem of him being busy and working in haste, which resulted in those errors. Nevertheless, I asked him about this because I wanted to see his reaction. He never replied and got replaced shortly after, which seems to confirm that he was just to busy to formulate properly, and that there is no deeper meaning to this.
Austins post on risk.nuke pretty much mirrors my thoughts. I agree with his analysis that risk was playing rather protown D1, but since then his activity has gone down badly. I would like to see more from Austin to get a better picture of his alignemnet, but currently I do not think he is scum.
risk.nuke: As said, his early play looks slightly townie, however recently his activity dropped hard. I would really like to hear from him why this is the case. Also, I would like to hear from him what he thinks of Hapa.
@Syllo, is risk more active in the mason circle?
My scum reads are snb and GK.
Regarding hopeless (who I have still marked as scum): I was also looking at a series of posts that discussed Hopeless' night actions and if they add up, but I'm currently unable to find it. If anyone knows where it is, a friendly pointer would be very nice.
@Acro for your spreadsheet, I was the one dealing damage to Goodkarma last night.
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On December 04 2012 02:28 Acrofales wrote:
@Phagga: while your ability seems to check out: you took 75 damage N5 and dealt 75 damage N6, does your copy tell you the name of the ability? If so, can you tell us what it was called?
No, it does not tell me the name.
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I am not good with that bussing stuff. Who would have been the target of the bus? There would have been two targets, right? The person to buss and the destination person?
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Ok, the main reason I am asking this is because if I was targeted in any way with the buss, I should have gotten a bussing night action, which I do not. But as I understand it, Theoratically snb could have been bussed to djo (though I agree that it makes no sense).
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On December 04 2012 06:32 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 05:43 phagga wrote:
Ok, the main reason I am asking this is because if I was targeted in any way with the buss, I should have gotten a bussing night action, which I do not. But as I understand it, Theoratically snb could have been bussed to djo (though I agree that it makes no sense). What makes you think bus targets are notified? Honestly, the normal MO is for them not to be. Theoretically also not. I admit that bus drivers are not an easy role to understand, but Djo is one of the few people who we know could not have been on the receiving end of a bus with SnB, assuming Syllo targeted SnB. He had no spells left and would thus not have been able to target himself.
I got this ability that anytime someone targets me with a night action, I get to use that action next night, remember? I asked Greymist just to be sure, I do not have a night action next night. Therefore, noone targeted me with anything last night.
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On December 04 2012 15:35 Hapahauli wrote:
Speaking of Phagga, I'm currently having some reservations that push me closer back to null on him. While I still find his stuff on CJ and his early-game really scummy, he's had several opportunities to discredit me and push suspicion on me with other players taking the lead, and has taken no part in it. Something to sleep over I suppose.
Hapa, you are aware that GK is pretty much doing this with me in the last few days? I pointed this out here. There was at least one other occasion where he just blatantly ignored that I said beforehand that I would be inactive and attacked me for my inactivty. This behaviour just further convinced me that he is scum.
Regarding VE: Being inactive on the verge of a modkill does not really say anything about his alignement. If it turns out that he is just going to post again this circle to not get modkilled, then he is mainly vigi-stuff. If he still wants to participate in this game properly, I expect him to step up his game drastically.
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On December 04 2012 20:11 strongandbig wrote:
##lynch cavejohnson
##epoch 1999
Lets get this shit over with yo
Both of these things are gonna happen eventually might as well do them now
So CaveJohnson is scum? Care to explain why?
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On December 05 2012 00:40 goodkarma wrote:So just briefly: Show nested quote +On December 03 2012 20:33 phagga wrote:
@risk.nuke I also still would like to know what you think of hapa.
Regarding SnB: Having two damaging abilities, him visiting Djo who is in the party is damning in any case. However, I am also confident in my scum read on Goodkarma, so I am happy to lynch either of them. For now, my vote stays on GK. Your vote post is pretty funny. Because it basically says, "I'd rather lynch my favorite scum read over a sure scum." The scum motivation here is apparent: trying to set up a counterwagon to prevent the snb lynch.
If I would have switched my vote you would have accused me of bussing. If I would have wanted to set up a counterwagon I would have actually pushed you, which I did not.
On December 05 2012 00:40 goodkarma wrote:As for this quote: Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 07:33 phagga wrote:Spoilering Goodkarmas quotes to not shit up the thread too much. + Show Spoiler +On December 01 2012 01:34 goodkarma wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 01:09 phagga wrote:On December 01 2012 00:49 goodkarma wrote:On December 01 2012 00:19 phagga wrote:On November 30 2012 09:21 Hapahauli wrote:GK saw Sandro as town. If GK were scum, he would at least know that Sandro is not scum. GK wants to have sandro in his team. I don't like the reasoning of GK, I think its contradicting. I therefore make the hypothesis that if GK is scum, he takes Sandro (whom he knows not to be scum) on his team to look more townie. That's the whole story. I did not say anywhere in that post that I think that Sandro is town.
Hell, i even write one paragraph earlier: " If GK thinks Sandro is so townie that you includes him in your team" (it should actually say "you" instead of "GK", but whatever). What about GK's previous analysis was "contradictory?" He wanted someone he thought was town on his team - that's pretty straightfoward to me. Ok, let's do this right so we can hopefully close that topic. I want to put this into relation of the dialog I already had with GK at that point and how I felt about GK then. Context matters, after all. So let's start with what Goodkarma wrote here: On November 21 2012 13:06 goodkarma wrote:
Who I would nominate (if not myself):
As of right now, my support for a party leader (besides myself) would be sandroba.
Sandroba seems to be adopting a solid strategy at present. I wholeheartedly agree with going with the most townie individuals, even if they are inexperienced. We don't know how the minigames are going to work yet, but we do know with 100% certainty that scum will count against their success. In a game where we don't lynch, all we can do is establish who is actually town. It is absolutely ridiculous to nominate people who have both strong scum and town games and are hard to read day one (thinking of Marv).
I also completely agree with the suggestion that's been brought up that parties be suggested by those who are hoping to be nominated up-front. This is especially important if we are to nominate a townie who isn't as experienced.
Goodkarma for President:
As your leader, I will do my best to further the policy of choosing the most obvious townies as detailed above. Along those lines, I would elect to choose both sandroba and promethelax for my party. The third is still tentative, as the game has only been going for a short time. So, in this very post he says that he would support Sandro because he adopts a solid strategy. Then he proposes himself as party leader and says he would take Sandroba on his team. I found this strange, which is why I asked him: On November 21 2012 15:59 phagga wrote:
You would vote Sandroba because you think his strategy is solid. His strategy involves taking less known townies on the team and no additional vets, to make it harder for scum to decide who to snipe. Your Strategy however would be to take at least one vet and a well known, albeit newer town player to your team. Why? His answerOn November 21 2012 17:07 goodkarma wrote:
I agree with Sandroba insofar as that lesser known players that are obvious townies should be strongly considered. However, at the end of the day, going with your three strongest town reads is going to be optimal for selecting a party. Unfortunately I, like several other players here, have somewhat of a bias at times towards prioritizing players that we have played with before. It could also be said that less experienced players are more likely to post like crap and not distinguish themselves as town than "vets" (look at deino). So there might be some unintentional bias towards vets (which is something I would try to avoid to the best of my ability). To be clear I will definitely be reassessing my read on Prox (as well as Sandroba) before making a finalized Vice Presidential Candidate trifecta.
I don't feel it's absolutely necessary that all three chosen members are townie looking newbies. I feel that the chosen members should be closest to 100% confirmed town, and that newbies should not be left out of consideration. Maybe there is a small difference between myself and Sandroba in this area. That's good for my election campaign I suppose... So, he explains he has a slightly different plan than Sandro. Fair enough. Still, I wondered, why would anyone who has a town read on Sandro would vote Goodkarma instead of Sandroba, when Sandroba was running for party leader himself? After all, he is the vet, the well known scumhunter who was drawing votes with his name alone. Why would GK expect to be voted instead of Sandroba when his team contained Sandroba as well? I also have a short discussion with GK about town/scumhunting here. After that I write the following: On November 22 2012 07:04 phagga wrote:
- Goodkarma: I will have to go through his filter again (not in the next 10 hours though), but my gut currently says that he is talking too much about the importance of townhunting. I have him in my mind as "looks like he is contributing but is not really helping town". Do not want him on the party.
I do not call him scum. I voice my suspicion of him. Some later, Goodkarma posts this: On November 22 2012 15:10 goodkarma wrote:
3) Sandroba: However much I feel he's playing lazy (he is), I keep coming back to his filter. I do currently believe that he is town. Everything he has done to date has been to provide clarity and insight into reads others have had and the general mechanics of this specific game. He could do this as scum, but I am inclined to believe he could have been a little less helpful and gotten away with it as scum as well. I look forward to seeing his proposed party as this will provide the information I need to help solidify my understanding of his thought process and determine if he truly belongs on this platform. But as it currently stands, I believe him to be town, and am including him on my platform. And again, I wonder, why should anyone vote GK instead of Sandroba if GK is gonna take Sand on his team anyway. Their plans differ only slightly, and most people would probably trust a town sand more to make accurate reads than a town GK. I was then writing a longer post about who I wanted as party leader and why. Somewhere in there was this part about Goodkarma and that I did not understand why he was voting Sandroba. Then I realised that it might be better to ask GK beforehand, show that I don't trust him and then post the longer post. Additionally, I wanted to show him where I came from with my suspiciouns and added that "What do you say about this:" part. However, it was meant to draw a reaction, i did not have a scum read on him at that point, I just wanted to see how he responded. So I posted this: On November 22 2012 18:52 phagga wrote:
@Goodkarma
If you trust Sandro so much, why do you not vote him? If GK thinks Sandro is so townie that you includes him in your team, why should I vote you instead of Sandro?
What do you say to the following: You are scum, you include a town sandro to make his team more townie, hoping to catch more votes like that. Also, after copying the short paragraph in a new post, I started changing the sentences from third person to second person (as I was going to ask GK directly instead of talking about him in 3rd person). I made an error in the second sentence of the first paragraph (it should be "if you think Sandro..."). The reason is that I was doing this in a hurry, I was at work. I had already typed this long post that I wanted to put online, so I hurried to get this short post about GK out. Perhaps that is a reason why I did not word it clear enough, which is possibly why you seem to interpret it as "phagga says GK is scum and Sandro is town", while in reality it was supposed to be a hypothetical question that - should provoke a reaction of GK - should show GK what my fear about his candidature was Then, 3 minutes later, I posted the aforementioned big post, where I discussed who I wanted to vote and why. So, I admit, contradiction is the wrong word. His candidature did not make any sense to me with Sandroba in his team. Also, I know I am not the only one who felt that way, look at this post from prom for example, or risks post here. So you consider rehashing old arguements I've already addressed activity? You do know Hapa has a case against you, and you are continuing to behave as scum in the way highlighted in that case, right? + Show Spoiler +(Not coming up with any new arguement of any kind. Attacking "safe" players who already have cases against them...) eh, I was answering a question hapa asked me. Since when is that a bad thing? Are you actually reading what I post? (posting from phone) Does it matter who it was in reply to? It's rehashing arguments all the same... Here's a thought: Besides me (and obviously Toad), who do you think has the highest chance of being scum and why? Dude, seriously. you ask If I am aware that Hapa made a case against me as answer to my post who is an answer to Hapas case against me. Your post is nonsensical. Also, since when is defending myself scummy? + Show Spoiler +On December 01 2012 02:05 goodkarma wrote:I almost missed it. He linked to a very old case on Hopeless about a page ago... Let's take a look at it: Show nested quote +On November 29 2012 01:32 phagga wrote:On November 28 2012 22:23 strongandbig wrote:
Now, phagga I have a couple of questions for you:
1. As far as I can tell, you changed your mind on your scumread on goodkarma because of the timing of his vote on Sandroba. Could you update that read for us? Given that Sandroba never really responded to Syllo's case or made a real effort to not get himself lynched, I'm hesitant to draw any conclusions from who voted for him when. It's definitely possible that his teammates knew he wasn't going to try very hard, and started bussing him very early. So if you ignore gk's vote on sandro, do you still think he's town or do you want to lynch him again.
2. You said you object to hopeless being in the party. do you think he's scum? What do you think of my stuff on his behavior since the check on him and acro?
3. What is kitaman's alignment and why do you think that?
-snip- 2. I remember going over Hopeless' filter a few days ago and setting him null on my list. Then Hope came up with this strange theorie about what if Toad flips town, followed by TC saying that Acro and Hope are of opposite alignement. Then he wanted to be part of the party to show that he is town, which was a red flag for me. Since then he is marked as scum. Regarding your post, I like the point about his sentence that he will not bring any last minute shenanigans. I mean, this is what everyone expects, why does he feel he has to announce this? seems like he is missing a townie mindest. The "Bring it, bitches" is interesting because he first takes a defensive stance in his answers to TCs case, but then tries to look aggressive with that last sentence. It does not seem authentic, but I don't think it's alignement indicative. -snip- This only adds to the evidence this guy is scum. It is super-lazy to use this as your case. What's more, it was a case he didn't have any conviction with describing. I'm not at all convinced from his case he thinks hopeless is scum.: Let's start with the bolded part.: The opposite alignment issue was already explained. And wanting to be in a party at this point in the game would be suicide for scum. So that only leaves a strange remark about Toad being town... Second paragraph: "Regarding your post, I like the point about his sentence that he will not bring any last minute shenanigans. I mean, this is what everyone expects, why does he feel he has to announce this? seems like he is missing a townie mindest.": How is a "no shenanigans" announcement indicative of only a scum mentality? He needs to elaborate on this point... Third Paragraph: "The "Bring it, bitches" is interesting because he first takes a defensive stance in his answers to TCs case, but then tries to look aggressive with that last sentence. It does not seem authentic, but I don't think it's alignement indicative. " So here, he's saying that what hopeless says isn't genuine, but isn't necessarily scum motivated. In other words, he tells us nothing. So what I get from this post that amounts to any kind of opinion at all is: 1) Hopeless said Toad could be town once, 2) Announcing no shennanigans means Hopeless is scum... Does everyone see how wishy-washy and weak this case is? This is exactly how a scum trying to blend in posts. It is blatantly obvious from stunts like this that phagga is scum. The post was two days ago. That's once cycle. That's not "very old". The post was not a case. It was an answer to snb who asked me about my opinion on Hopeless in regard to his case. My comments were related to his case. I have written more about what I think of hopeless here and in the discussion with him here. That is for example the reason why the "bring it bitches" thing is in there: I read it differently than snb, so I wanted to comment on it since he ASKED for my comments. And only because the opposite alignement stuff is explained I am no longer allowed to talk about it? I am not allowed to describe how I felt about it back when it came up? Even if he would have specifically asked to comment on it? Seriously, you are grasping at straws here. You have not even correctly read my post, let alone my filter, you did not put the post into context to try to understand what's going on. you are just trying desperately to discredit me at all cost. You don't care about the truth, you put meanings into my sentences that were not there, you ignore time stamps, exagerate, and try anything to make me look bad. So your post on hopeless was not a case...? And every time I bring up your disinterest in coming up with your own opinion on why someone is scum, it seems your favorite thing to do is to bring up one or two old quotes that don't point to a very coherant case... So how about this: if hopeless is your next strongest scumread: Put all your arguments on why you think Hopeless is scum in one spot, in one case post. Hopeless has been active enough that there's clearly more to go on than comments which are several cycles old. You briefly mention you still find him suspicious here: here. To be clear, I expect to see some followup from you, not a series of half-baked ideas. Because tunneling me with old arguments is a splendid way of pretending to be active and interested while contributing nothing. If you want to prove that you're town, the first step is to take some initiative and actually show you can do your own scumhunting, without recycling and rehashing others' arguments.
I don't take requests from you. I don't care what you think of me. You are scum, you need to die.
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On December 04 2012 23:51 Acrofales wrote:
People claimed from the middle ages:
H1: suspects he gets bonuses in this era
Keirathi: gets bonus for being in a party in middle ages
GK: no known bonuses
People from the future:
Oatsmaster: small bonus in 2300AD
Adam: doubles his vig shot damage if he manages to hit with it
Present:
Iamperfection: might get an upgrade if in a successful team (is the era important?)
risk.nuke: no bonuses claimed
CJ: no bonuses claimed
Hapa: no known bonus
Antiquity:
Promethelax: no bonuses claimed
That's it for era-based bonuses claimed so far.
Sounds like the Middle Ages it is.
##Epoch: Middle Ages
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On December 05 2012 00:40 goodkarma wrote:So just briefly: Show nested quote +On December 03 2012 20:33 phagga wrote:
@risk.nuke I also still would like to know what you think of hapa.
Regarding SnB: Having two damaging abilities, him visiting Djo who is in the party is damning in any case. However, I am also confident in my scum read on Goodkarma, so I am happy to lynch either of them. For now, my vote stays on GK. Your vote post is pretty funny. Because it basically says, "I'd rather lynch my favorite scum read over a sure scum." The scum motivation here is apparent: trying to set up a counterwagon to prevent the snb lynch.
Btw, from where do you know that SnB is sure scum? All I know is that his behaviour was extremely anti-town, hence the lynch. But town does not know his alignement yet.
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On December 05 2012 01:20 goodkarma wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 01:10 phagga wrote:On December 05 2012 00:40 goodkarma wrote:So just briefly: On December 03 2012 20:33 phagga wrote:
@risk.nuke I also still would like to know what you think of hapa.
Regarding SnB: Having two damaging abilities, him visiting Djo who is in the party is damning in any case. However, I am also confident in my scum read on Goodkarma, so I am happy to lynch either of them. For now, my vote stays on GK. Your vote post is pretty funny. Because it basically says, "I'd rather lynch my favorite scum read over a sure scum." The scum motivation here is apparent: trying to set up a counterwagon to prevent the snb lynch. Btw, from where do you know that SnB is sure scum? All I know is that his behaviour was extremely anti-town, hence the lynch. But town does not know his alignement yet. SnB was caught in a lie when syllo found he targeted Djo, he made a very implausible story about being bussed, and then posted this: Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 20:11 strongandbig wrote:
##lynch cavejohnson
##epoch 1999
Lets get this shit over with yo
Both of these things are gonna happen eventually might as well do them now So yeah, strongandbig is scum. Perhaps a better question is: how can you in any way think at this point strong could be town?
There we go again. I am so sick of this. you always turning around my words to create meanings that were not there. Where is the town motivation in that?
In case you have not noticed yet, there are other alignements besides town and scum. Now leave me the fuck alone.
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On December 05 2012 01:25 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 01:23 phagga wrote:On December 05 2012 01:20 goodkarma wrote:On December 05 2012 01:10 phagga wrote:On December 05 2012 00:40 goodkarma wrote:So just briefly: On December 03 2012 20:33 phagga wrote:
@risk.nuke I also still would like to know what you think of hapa.
Regarding SnB: Having two damaging abilities, him visiting Djo who is in the party is damning in any case. However, I am also confident in my scum read on Goodkarma, so I am happy to lynch either of them. For now, my vote stays on GK. Your vote post is pretty funny. Because it basically says, "I'd rather lynch my favorite scum read over a sure scum." The scum motivation here is apparent: trying to set up a counterwagon to prevent the snb lynch. Btw, from where do you know that SnB is sure scum? All I know is that his behaviour was extremely anti-town, hence the lynch. But town does not know his alignement yet. SnB was caught in a lie when syllo found he targeted Djo, he made a very implausible story about being bussed, and then posted this: On December 04 2012 20:11 strongandbig wrote:
##lynch cavejohnson
##epoch 1999
Lets get this shit over with yo
Both of these things are gonna happen eventually might as well do them now So yeah, strongandbig is scum. Perhaps a better question is: how can you in any way think at this point strong could be town? There we go again. I am so sick of this. you always turning around my words to create meanings that were not there. Where is the town motivation in that? In case you have not noticed yet, there are other alignements besides town and scum. Now leave me the fuck alone. wat Why you so angry?
Because he is always twisting around my words. I hate that. English is not my first language, so perhaps I am not always making myself completely clear, but I doubt that someone who would TRY to be objective about my posts would interpret them in the way GK does. I feel he just wants to discredit me at all costs, no matter if he has to bend the truth or not. And that pisses me off.
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On December 05 2012 01:29 Keirathi wrote:
How was he twisting your words in that post? He was asking a legit question: do you think there's any way s&b can be town? If so, why?
No. But there are third parties out there. There may even be a second scum faction that we know nothing about yet (although it seems unlikely). Going to say that snb is sure scum just seems wrong in that context. We don't know what alignement snb has except that it is very unlikely town.
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On December 05 2012 01:41 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 01:32 phagga wrote:On December 05 2012 01:29 Keirathi wrote:
How was he twisting your words in that post? He was asking a legit question: do you think there's any way s&b can be town? If so, why? No. But there are third parties out there. There may even be a second scum faction that we know nothing about yet (although it seems unlikely). Going to say that snb is sure scum just seems wrong in that context. We don't know what alignement snb has except that it is very unlikely town. I understand that S&B isn't 100% confirmed scum. It is very likely that he is scum, but he's not confirmed in a game like this until he flips. But I'm super confused by your "twisting my words" thing. Here's what went down: GK: "s&b is sure scum" you: "Why is s&b sure scum?" GK: "Here's my reasons. Do you think he could be town?"you: "Quit twisting my words and leave me the fuck alone" ..... I just dont understand your response.
That is not what he said. He wrote
Perhaps a better question is: how can you in any way think at this point strong could be town?
Which implies that I think SnB is town. I never said that. I never thought that. At the very moment when syllo wrote that snb visited Djo it was clear that no sane townie would do this.
The point is, he is implying that I said something which I never did. That is what is pissing me off. If he would have asked the question the way you did above, it would have been completely different.
Additionally, my impression is that GK is a player who cautiosly words his posts (when he does not claim to be drunk) and who is aware of the power of a well written post. I am pretty sure he knew exactly what kind of impression his phrasing would leave with the reader.
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On December 05 2012 02:09 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 01:32 phagga wrote:On December 05 2012 01:29 Keirathi wrote:
How was he twisting your words in that post? He was asking a legit question: do you think there's any way s&b can be town? If so, why? No. But there are third parties out there. There may even be a second scum faction that we know nothing about yet (although it seems unlikely). Going to say that snb is sure scum just seems wrong in that context. We don't know what alignement snb has except that it is very unlikely town. It is strange you bring this up with regards to SnB, yet never mentioned anything like it with Toad. Why were you sure Toad was scum, yet are now bringing up 3P and second scumteams that we have NO evidence of (note, I made the previous post prematurely and hadn't read the rest of the discussion yet).
Seriously?
On November 25 2012 10:32 TheChronicler wrote:
200 gold Popcorn You target 2 players. You will be told if they are the same alignment or different.
Night Results: toadesstern and sandroba, same.
Gee, if Sand flipped scum, and Toads was the same alignement, what alignement does Toads have?
Also, you have no idea how many scum are in this game. Or how many third parties. We are just guessing. We do not have night flips that might give us any indication on what the numbers and factions are in this game. All we know so far is that we have town and mafia and one claimed 3rd party. Everything else is in the dark.
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EBWOP: Oh right, I even forgot about your parity check on him.
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I've calmed down. My temper sometimes gets the best of me when I feel attacked/manipulated, guess I went a bit overboard yesterday. Sorry for that.
I'll reevaluate some of my reads. Regarding risk, I've written yesterday that from his behaviour early game, i don't think he is scum. I am however worried by his heavy lurking for the last 5 days and his unwillingness to participate. I will look into this as well.
For the time being:
##Vote: Goodkarma
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On December 05 2012 23:57 risk.nuke wrote:
I'm in school. Clarity, do you seriously believe your own case and how much thought did you pour into it. 30 seconds?
Instant delurk, nice. you were gone for 5 days, never answered my questions regarding your opinion on hapa but when a near-confirmed townie makes a case on you you're back in less then 10 minutes.
So, what do you think of Hapa?
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EPT
