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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 29 2012 03:05 Promethelax wrote: so what is mafia kp? Wanna share the things you know? How on earth would I know? There's a very clear divide between which people mafia is likely to shoot and which people town is likely to shoot. If you were to go to the damage report layed out by Dieno and do basic math, you'd come to a similar conclusion. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 29 2012 03:11 Clarity_nl wrote: Just know that scum killed marv in a single night when he had 550 hp. I'd say it's safe to say that all scum stacked on him day 2. And there's no way of knowing how overkilled he was... | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 29 2012 03:24 Clarity_nl wrote: My point is town kp is probably higher than what you guys are suggesting, but I'm guessing a lot of it is 1shot stuff. All we have to work with, though, is the numbers we've seen from the past couple days... Everything else is just speculation. If we try vigi-ing Toad and get a chance to lynch him before he dies, it still would make the most sense to lynch him. And we will be left with a lot of wasted night actions that might have turned into a night kill... That's what I'm trying to get at but everyone here seems content to pretend that we're still playing a standard game. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
*That's what I'm trying to get at but everyone here still seems content to pretend that we're playing a standard game. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Toad very well could be lying. He could have 1 HP or 700 HP... There's no way of knowing. I say lynch him anyway. ##Vote: Toad | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 29 2012 10:13 Promethelax wrote: I'm writing up a GK case as we speak and it is long and, I think convincing. I'll be checking back to see it. This brings back memories of how you tried to get me mislynched in our newbie days... | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
You'll just spam up this page and bury Prox's case... | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
But I will look over what you said, and reply accordingly. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 29 2012 11:14 Adam4167 wrote: Relax. I agree GK is probably scum, him ignoring my my question on risk.nuke isn't helping that any. Just to be clear, a significant factor in my town read on risk had to do with interactions in the QT I share with him. I didn't deem it appropriate to explain my mason QT with him at the time, so I sidestepped your question. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
You're making a bad situation even worse. Trying to "redeem" deino's epic fail by assuming I must be scum, when Acro proclaimed himself 3rd party (as in: not town) is terrible... | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
I, unlike you, am courteous enough to break up the bullshit you thoughtlessly spat out on paper. Part one incoming, with part 2 still being worked on. The sad thing is that it doesn't even require a whole lot of a response to shoot down, it's "but fucking bad." Yet, sifting through 43 pages of crap takes time... | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
GK and how he feels about Sandroba and Syllo: A thesis in fail [QUOTE]On November 21 2012 13:06 goodkarma wrote: Okay. I'm pretty much caught up. I'd like to address several things. First: [QUOTE]On November 21 2012 12:16 Promethelax wrote: Clarity, i would agree with you if Hapa's reaction to Kier's questions had been what I expect from a town Hapa but it wasn't. My short list is a little bit shorter. Why would you vote anyone you don't have a town read on? Goodkarma: have you played any games since our Newbie Mini Misfortune? Hapa: what kind of player would get your vote? Not Kier, Not Marv...who? Keir: how many scum does it take to sabotage a mission? My guess is that even a single one will fuck us so a scum Marv would not need to pick any scummers. [/QUOTE] Yes. I had much better games after that. I hope there's no hard feelings for that particular game, as I played scum about as terribly as I possibly could clamming up when really saying just about anything would have prevented my early lynch. My other two games: In NMM XXIV: The hero that saved the town from a 5-3 MYLO to win the game. In LVII: Mafia suicide bomber. Could have played better but mafia got the win anyway. Rockband mini: I replaced out day one as scum. Never actually checked to see how it ended. Who I would nominate (if not myself): As of right now, my support for a party leader (besides myself) would be sandroba. Sandroba seems to be adopting a solid strategy at present. I wholeheartedly agree with going with the most townie individuals, even if they are inexperienced. We don't know how the minigames are going to work yet, but we do know with 100% certainty that scum will count against their success. In a game where we don't lynch, all we can do is establish who is actually town. It is absolutely ridiculous to nominate people who have both strong scum and town games and are hard to read day one (thinking of Marv). I also completely agree with the suggestion that's been brought up that parties be suggested by those who are hoping to be nominated up-front. This is especially important if we are to nominate a townie who isn't as experienced. Goodkarma for President: As your leader, I will do my best to further the policy of choosing the most obvious townies as detailed above. Along those lines, I would elect to choose both sandroba and promethelax for my party. The third is still tentative, as the game has only been going for a short time.[/QUOTE] Just wanted to highlight what is essentially GK's first post in this game, it supports Sandro while presenting himself as an alternate candidate. Weirdly runs against someone who he would include in his party which makes no sense from a townie perspective, does he think his reads are better than Sand's? So this, to me, is a point in the scummy direction. He wants to be leader over Sand but has a town read on Sand. I wasn't voting Sand because I did not have a town read on him but if I did think he was town I would want him to lead over me any day. Sand is one of the best players this forum has. [red]So essentially, you’re saying there’s no town motivation for including Sandroba in the party, who at that point in the game I had a town read on? Did you look? Did you fucking try to find motivation in my filter, like at all? I’m sorry, but I get a bit frustrated when people don’t learn from their prior mistakes. Again you make a terrible case against me, and again I’m forced to make a ridiculously long response that could have been avoided if you were a more diligent reader…: [QUOTE]On November 22 2012 15:59 goodkarma wrote: [QUOTE]On November 22 2012 15:18 Promethelax wrote: GK: 1) I miss being called prox <3 2) Your proposed team is butt fuck bad. Including Sand makes voting you as bad an idea as voting Sand. If I was confidant that Sand was town I'd vote his ass over yours any day (no offense but he is a beast and you are one of the top newbs to come out of the games when I was new. But so are Keir and Hapa). 3) Oats isn't a town read, he is an 'excited to play mafia' read. He reminds me a lot of my first game where I posted all of the posts even though I was mafia and being quiet would have been smarter. 4) you called Djo a weak town read for you and said you couldn't see this team changing. Sorry bud, not a chance you'll get my vote. I like you as a person but this election ain't for you. [/QUOTE] Just to be clear, my choices weren't specifically made because I just have to win an election. I'm honestly not that upset if I don't win, as long as what I feel to be a strong town team party is established as an outcome of the discussion. To that end, I didn't put winning chances into consideration when determining my party... You are right that being quiet in this particular setup is terrible for mafia. But at the same time I had trouble supporting a party full of inactives and semilurkers, as there's no way to definitively determine that they are town either. I chose to eliminate anyone I deemed difficult to definitively read. That included: trolls (Kush and friends), hardcore lurkers (such as Adam), semi-lurkers (such as yourself, at the time I made my picks), and hard-to-read vets (such as Marv). That narrowed the field of who I could choose substantially. I do very much appreciate the concerns you have voiced over my picks. I would say it was largely via a process of elimination. But I would ask that if you are so adamently opposed to them that you explain to me how the alternatives you support are better suited. Kitaman has done nothing to establish he's town. He's said he wants to be leader, and that's honestly about it. I suppose he's made a few jabs at really safe targets too (such as kush...). Deino is largely an unknown. Acro is someone whose meta and story I can't presently follow. He's clearly angry, but as a townie or scum I can't decide at present. You seem to be an avid supporter of him, so I would be interested to know what quality he possesses that has you so confident he is town. As for Prox: I was thinking you would make a good candidate, but your activity waned. Not only that, but since proposing some solid setup ideas, you have fervently supported Acro for reasons unbeknownst to me... And have been opposed to Sandroba, again for reasons unbeknownst to me... I would really appreciate clarification in both departments. I definitely took a hardline, rigid stance on my choices, but that doesn't mean I won't change them if you propose a strong alternative. As it is, however, you have yet to do so.[/QUOTE] So, as town, I had no problem with my town read leading. In fact, my motivation for running was to establish a system that others would follow. Openness in describing which party members the party leaders running would take… [QUOTE]On November 21 2012 13:50 goodkarma wrote: [QUOTE]On November 21 2012 13:46 Hopeless1der wrote: [QUOTE]On November 21 2012 13:41 goodkarma wrote: [QUOTE]On November 21 2012 13:36 Hopeless1der wrote: Greetings all. You'll notice that we're currently in [url=http://chrono.wikia.com/wiki/600_AD]600 AD[/url] Guardia. You're also playing a themed game hosted by none other than Greymist. Please keep that in mind. (Hi Mementoss, you're cool too). Basic vote mechanics for this game seem to boil down to -identify town -vote town to lead the party -Profit -Kill Mafia/Lavos -More Profit What are people's thoughts on claiming that their character belongs to the 600 AD era and selecting the leader based on that. (YOU ONLY CLAIM "600 AD") Possibly selecting the entire party from within the era, assuming enough of a pool emerges. I linked Chronopedia above in case anyone feels the need to check it out. ~17ish native characters from 600 AD. I think our hidden numbers are influenced by the current era, and events can have varying degrees of success or failure depending on which specific players (not just town or scum) are in the party. Come play the setup speculation game with me please![/QUOTE] No. Setup speculation is for chumps. I'd like to hear your thoughts on who we should choose for a party leader and why.[/QUOTE] Choose town. Win events. Kill Lavos. This has already been covered. I don't have any strong townreads yet. So in the meantime, I want to plant some ideas about how the setup works because you can bet your ass its going to matter.[/QUOTE] Of course it will matter. But talking about how certain deliberately hidden variables could or could not work that are outside our control is a waste of time. The one thing we presently can control is who we choose for our party, and that's where are focus should be. So please stop shitting up the thread advocating setup speculation.[/QUOTE] says the guy talking about setup. Okay, saving this, if he goes back to set up it is just shitting up the thread. [QUOTE]On November 21 2012 15:45 goodkarma wrote: [QUOTE]On November 21 2012 15:30 Keirathi wrote: [QUOTE]On November 21 2012 15:26 goodkarma wrote: Keir brings up a couple good points. Perhaps our host could explain?: Are chosen party members kill-immune? If not, what happens if scum kill a party member?[/QUOTE] We don't even know anything about HOW the scum kills, other than it doesn't follow the traditional "1 KP = 1 dead". We have an HP value, and have no idea how much HP damage the scum can do in a single cycle, how they will do it, or who they can do it to.[/QUOTE] But we have HP. Scum must be able to remove it somehow. And if we have let's say a small hidden value score lead over scum, it would be important to know if scum can or cannot off people in the party to tip the scales against us. Especially if a medic-type role exists for town. I feel this is a very relevant and answerable question to ask the host. But I must agree with oats that outside of a response from him it's not a good use of our time to discuss further.[/QUOTE] oh hey, look, more set up speculation. Alright. Reasonable, there were reasons for this. But besides set up all GK has talked to up to this point is being pro Sand / kinda pro me and advice for Djo and Dieno (who clearly needs some damn advice, like SUBMIT YOUR FUCKING PARTY YOU FOOL!) So, determining how the game mechanics work, and how best to use them, at the very start of the game is dumb??? The questions GK ask aren't very town oriented, scum needs to know how to fuck with the party and his questions to the mods are: [QUOTE]On November 21 2012 15:26 goodkarma wrote: Keir brings up a couple good points. Perhaps our host could explain?: Are chosen party members kill-immune? If not, what happens if scum kill a party member?[/QUOTE] "Hey guys: I know some townies might be kill immune, could I know who? Thanks lulz." Town also needs to know this… Fucking idiot. [QUOTE]On November 21 2012 17:07 goodkarma wrote: @Oats: I suggested that if I am not elected Sandroba is my current alternative pick for party leader. That should say something about my current read on him. But I will briefly recap: His ideas for how to produce a successful town party are ones that I agree with. That others apparently are familiar with his meta, and that he is either a strong town or weak scum player is icing on the cake. That being said, before I would place a vote towards him I would need to know which party members he would choose and why. -snippy- [/QUOTE] So GK has 1) a town read on Sandro and 2) will not vote him unless he reveals his party. Know who he voted though? [QUOTE]On November 23 2012 07:36 Mementoss wrote: Vote Count Kitaman27 (5): CaveJohnson, Kitaman27, Promethelax,phagga, strongnbig Goodkarma (1): risknuke Hapahauli (3): Hapahauli, Iamperfection, Clarity_nl, Dienosore (1): Dienosore Syllogism (14): Toadesstern, Acrofales, BioSC, Hopeless1der, djodref, keirathi, goodkarma, Adam4167, Syllogism, Oatsmaster, Marvellosity, TheChronicler, zboson, sandroba Remember that voting is mandatory. All votes must be in by Thursday, Nov 22 11:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)[/QUOTE] Do you know why? I do [QUOTE]On November 23 2012 01:05 goodkarma wrote: [QUOTE]On November 23 2012 00:18 syllogism wrote: I can't explain it better than I have. It doesn't feel like he cares about figuring things out and there is no sense of urgency despite him being one of the most likely people to be elected. He has made no attempts at figuring out who mafia is and it seems to me he is hiding behind the fact he doesn't have to. There is being lazy and then there is just not caring. My other reasons rely on my knowledge of how he thinks and some of the things he has said feel off; can't elaborate more on that. Yes, I might gain more votes by making my reads public. I would also gain more reads by pretending to be completely confident in my reads; I'm not. I have not finalized my team yet (right now I've 2 whom I'm likely to take and a few possibilities for the third) and may not finalize it until the end. An honest assessment as to why I'm not going to is a combination of considering it optimal play (if I get the votes), being lazy and because sometimes my town reads rely on things other players may find flimsy or the reasons are otherwise difficult to explain (tone, whether the person feels earnest). If I were mafia, there would be absolutely no reason not to make the list of people I intend to pick public. [/QUOTE] I question if this is in fact true. Being held accountable upfront for the people you choose is important, as is producing an open forum of discussion for others. Such discussion provides valuable information about others' thought processes that would otherwise be lost. Also, from a scum perspective, a blind ticket can sometimes be more appealing for people to get behind than a known ticket (And for this reason being secretive would be a good play as mafia.)... And yes, I'm droning, and, this certainly is obvious, yet it beared discussion due to how absurd the bolded portion of your quote is. I honestly don't care if you find your reasoning for one or two members of your selected party could be flimsy to others. Give us a chance to stack up your chosen party against your reads. Pretty please. As for what I plan to do: I hereby concede my campaign. There did appear to be some going interest in it, and I will certainly take future note of it for the future. However, I will not have the appropriate time to gather the momentum I will need to come from behind, and it is important we consolidate our votes as the deadline approaches. I will be voting for syllogism. I am really displeased with his determination to keep his party secret, as I have already outlined. However, he is hands down the lesser of the three (fairly evenly distributed by votes) evils. Of Kita, Sandroba, and Syllo, I choose syllo. I would further recommend that in the interest of consolidation as soon as possible we bring it down to two people. Having three people stay in the running in the long term will be much easier for mafia to manipulate. ##Unvote ##Vote: Syllogism[/QUOTE] GK votes for the lesser of three evils, a guy who is doing something he thinks is scummy. He votes that guy over his town read. Uh-huh... At this point I had determined Sandroba wasn’t to be trusted. I only had a town read on him early, and became suspicious after he afk lurked. I mean, if you were to read my fucking filter you’d know this... I actually don’t get at all what you’re trying to get at below… You go back in time before the vote, and then make believe that I didn’t have my reads change over time… I’m not going to address your discussion here, as you clearly didn’t take the time to get your facts straight… [QUOTE]On November 22 2012 00:01 goodkarma wrote: [QUOTE]On November 21 2012 22:50 sandroba wrote: I wouldn't mind syllo being leader either and if I win I will give him veto power over the people I choose. I'm fairly certain he is town at this point.[/QUOTE] I found this particular quote to be upsetting. I understand, on the one hand, if you have a town read on syllo. But I don't understand why you would be willing to go so far as to allow him to veto your picks. If you're not that confident in your choices, you should as well just have him pick for you... Or better yet, let him be party leader. As current "frontrunner" I would like a response from you on this scandal. Are you looking to concede and have syllo run in your stead, or was this merely an assertion that you are super-confident syllo is town?[/QUOTE] Here is one of the few posts that GK has addressing his thoughts on Sand before the vote. He is upset that Syllo would get veto privilages because he does not have a town read on Syllo, the gentleman who ended up with his vote. So what other reasons did GK have for not voting Sand? [QUOTE]On November 22 2012 12:11 goodkarma wrote: My current thoughts on party leader: So... It would seem that syllo has yet to make any additional moves, and sandoba, while back, hasn't really made that much of an additional comment on his party he's taking with him. Firstly, sandroba has now made it clear that he strongly believes syllo to be town. I do not have the "meta" read priveleges that he does, and as such, cannot make this read. Yet, at this point I would go so far as to say that sandroba has put so much faith into syllo that a vote for either is semi-interchangable. Between the two of them, I see one party leader ticket. I don't have presently a town read on syllo, and so am less comfortable voting for Sandroba than I previously was. Sandroba, who was someone I was very excited about having as party leader with his solid early ideas for how to select his party, also has yet to provide some idea of who he's considering at present for his party. This is another point that makes me less comfortable voting Sandroba. I'm still leaning towards sandroba being town, but I question why it is he has become fairly quiet relative to the beginning of the game. So, in Summary...: While many here give Sandroba/Syllo respect for being a "vet," it's incredibly hard for me to sort through a sea of one-liners and go, "That guy is definitely town..." Actually, insert Marv's name here too as he's guiltiest of this... -snippy- Mafia manipulation: Many of you seem to fear that it will be super-easy for mafia to hide in a setup where they don't necessarily need to spend all that much time faking scumhunting. But when you blindly vote for one guy you are missing an amazing opportunity to spot them out. By voting for a known 4-person party (where the party leader presents his choices) you are doing a better job of forcing their hand. They will be trying to steer the vote towards selecting their own members, and their voting should reflect that. As an added bonus, this allows you to spread your risk. You can determine if the choices of the party leader match up to your own, and at least to some degree, determine how likely it is that the party has a mafia member in it. By voting for a singular leader, it's an all or nothing proposition. They get their candidate in, or they don't. Either way, we get far less information from that. We will not be able to narrow down what went wrong should things go wrong. Is it a scum party leader with questionable choices or a town party leader with questionable choices? The only way you'd know for sure is to lynch every party leader who fails his mission... This is a system I am wholeheartedly opposed to. In Conclusion: Nothing in this game is certain, but what I am certain of is that there's not a snowflake's prayer in hell I'm voting for either sandroba or syllo (or should I say sandollo?) until they provide more information on who they're bringing and why. I wasn't altogether serious about "running for office" before but I am now. I am unhappy with what I see and will be making a post outlining who I'll bring and why within the next couple hours.[/QUOTE] Right, Sand and Syllo are too comfortable with each other. That leadership bid I made was a joke but it isn't a joke. Don't vote Sand or Syllo until they tell us who they are taking. I'm with him here. I get it. But his vote ends up on Syllo. And his proposed party from his new campaign? I present exibit a) [QUOTE]On November 22 2012 15:10 goodkarma wrote: Okay. To the best of my ability I have selected a team. I would like to take a few seconds to note that I was very disappointed my shortlist wasn't longer. Many people here have not taken the effort to establish themselves as town. I'm not by any means the perfect reader in this game, but by making a few more reads on who you feel are viable candidates many of you could have made it easier for me as I could have had more insight into your thought process. I will not lie. None of these I have a "definitely town" read on. However, given the context of their play so far, I feel their play is more likely town-motivated than scum-motivated, and the best prospects for being town. In no particular order: 1) Oats: This is a guy who has played unafraid of what others think of him, making a mediocre (at best) case against clarity and chiming in every chance he gets. He clearly is excited to scumhunt, which is what I believe to be the only reason he placed a vote on toad. I visualize a scum in this setup taking more time discussing who's town, which is definitely the "safer" route. 2) Djo: I can't say that I have a very strong read on him, but I'm leaning towards town. He has proposed his own ideas for how to run an election. A scum could be just as forthcoming, however. Beyond that, I have to go off of his reads: he doesn't trust acro and prox, and thinks oats is town. I am in general agreement there. Definitely my weakest read. 3) Sandroba: However much I feel he's playing lazy (he is), I keep coming back to his filter. I do currently believe that he is town. Everything he has done to date has been to provide clarity and insight into reads others have had and the general mechanics of this specific game. He could do this as scum, but I am inclined to believe he could have been a little less helpful and gotten away with it as scum as well. I look forward to seeing his proposed party as this will provide the information I need to help solidify my understanding of his thought process and determine if he truly belongs on this platform. But as it currently stands, I believe him to be town, and am including him on my platform. A brief note on Dieno: He is playing so badly that many would consider him likely town, as newbie scum tend to play far more cautiously. However, the persistence and singlemindedness with which he's been pushing his campaign (even after repeatedly being warned) and shitting up the thread leaves enough doubt in my head to exclude him. As a newbie town trying to improve he would have changed his gameplan long ago, as a troll he would be more, well, trolly, and as a newbie who doesn't give a shit he would have given up. How he's been playing is just plain sad, to the point where I wonder if what he's been doing is deliberately anti-town as a scum. He most definitely could be town, but I would rather not take such a risk on such an unknown. I would not say these names are 100% rigid, but I would have to hear a really damn good argument for me to change this lineup. I look forward to hearing what all of you have to say.[/QUOTE] Note that he would require a ‘really good argument' to change any of these players. So he still has a town read on Sand. [red] And yet I didn’t say my picks were immune to change [QUOTE]On November 22 2012 19:52 goodkarma wrote: [QUOTE]On November 22 2012 18:52 phagga wrote: @Goodkarma If you trust Sandro so much, why do you not vote him? If GK thinks Sandro is so townie that you includes him in your team, why should I vote you instead of Sandro? What do you say to the following: You are scum, you include a town sandro to make his team more townie, hoping to catch more votes like that.[/QUOTE] I answered all of these questions if you were to actually take the time to read my filter... As for what I think of Sandroba currently, I can understand the selection of Kush, but I don't like it. If Kush is in fact telling the truth I find it hard to believe there are that many people lower than 30 HP in a game that has 999HP max (I know this is very speculative but still...). As such I would expect him to have a contingency plan if Kush were to die... I readily admit that Sandroba may not be the best candidate as he's been playing. Since I nominated him, he's been extremely stingy with the details of who he plans on choosing and why. Further I missed there was a role claim by Dien... And I will admit that by adopting a process of elimination-type process it is possible that I overlooked better qualified candidates that are possibly in the "semi-lurker" position. Prox especially comes to mind. But I would like to say that while this is definitely in part my fault it is additionally the fault of those people who have decided to sit back and let things play out without voicing their opinions. It has made it that much harder for me to find three strong candidates. I will reassess my choices, and have a finalized list here in the next few hours. I'll try to touch up on the thread tomorrow as best I can, but will be rather time-limited. Currently the two I object most to on the Kita ticket are Kita and Acros. Kita especially as he has done very little to even try to establish himself as town, and, as the leader of his ticket, that worries me. A lot...[/QUOTE] So, firstly, no GK did not answer these questions in his filter. He Proposed that we shouldn't, as a town, put all ours eggs in the Sand/Syllo basket. But he puts Sand in his party. One basket. One government. But now Sand 'might not be the best candidate' though nothing about who would be the best. If he is no longer the best candidate why is he still a top three town read? I dunno and I doubt GK has a reason either. Did you miss this part, from the fucking quote you used. Are your eyes really that bad that you can’t include stuff that’s right in front of you?…: “I will reassess my choices, and have a finalized list here in the next few hours. I'll try to touch up on the thread tomorrow as best I can, but will be rather time-limited.” [QUOTE]On November 22 2012 20:43 goodkarma wrote: [QUOTE]On November 22 2012 15:53 syllogism wrote: Right now I would say there is a >50% chance that sandroba is mafia. His interest in the game feels superficial and some of his posts feel off. For instance him saying that he is "torn" about clarity_nl as opposed to actually stating whether he now thinks it is more likely that he is town or mafia. His explanation as to why he thought clarity was mafia is also pretty weak by his standards. Pouncing with one-liners on weak stuff? That probably applies to many, many people in every single game.[/QUOTE] Missed this discussion from syllogism on Sandro... He is no longer on my list. Oats is on both of our lists, and upon skimming his filter I found this: [QUOTE]On November 21 2012 15:44 Oatsmaster wrote: Dont guess Djo, how could you know how mafia KPs work in this setup. Does scum have to send in actions before they know who the party leader is? or after the whole party is made? I think you misunderstand me. My point is that we should focus on completing the tasks since that is the only way town gets an advantage. The best way to complete the tasks is the send the 4 towniest players[/QUOTE] I know it's petty semantics, but since sending in actions is a matter-of-fact thing, I would expect a town to ask if actions were sent in before or after. Since it is a disadvantageous thing for scum if actions are sent in, asking if they have to be sent before party leaders are announced makes sense. So What Now?: Oats is definitely a bit of a try-hard newbie, and honestly that was part of what I felt was townie about him. The biggest issue, however, is that being a tryhard this game is pretty important for the scum wincon, and as such I would expect most scum to be active members (likely more active than town). Between this and that he was included on sandro's list, I am inclined to remove him as well for the time being. I'm not saying he's scum, but I was too eager to bring in people I saw as active and acting pro-town while he could just as easily be acting as scum in this way. Oh wait? Does that mean that you are about-facing and saying Sandroba is scum? Not necessarily. All I know is that there is enough doubt on him, and since I nominated him he has performed very poorly for town. In my opinon town has not done enough to differentiate itself from the scum and that is where my problem has been. These two are going to be replaced with your average town representatives, which at this point of the game I am confident is the semi-lurker demographic. It's not what I would have hoped for, but it looks to be the safest demographic to tap from, especially since more than half the current players reside there...[/QUOTE] I can't snippy any of this, it matters. 1) Sand is no longer on his list 2) Oats is removed due to being related to Sand 3) but Sand isn't scum. I'll let GK tell you what to think about this himself: [QUOTE]On November 24 2012 14:33 goodkarma wrote: [QUOTE]On November 24 2012 14:29 TheChronicler wrote: [QUOTE]On November 24 2012 14:15 Z-BosoN wrote: [QUOTE]On November 24 2012 14:11 Djodref wrote: [QUOTE]On November 24 2012 14:02 Z-BosoN wrote: @TheChronicle You keep saying I'm not reading, that people are not reading, that people are stupid, or whatever, but you fail to supply evidence. I've searched your filter yet again and couldn't see where you responded to this: [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=102#2037]http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=102#2037[/url] At least in a way in which I could recognize it as an attempt. Can you please quote the part where you replied specifically to the post I linked?[/QUOTE] @Z-BosoN He has already addressed it. His plan was not based on the fact that people were going to chose other people based on their townreads, but based on "certain reads". So there is no apparent contradiction but it reinforces my conviction that he made this plan to not be elected with. I'm not saying that the plan is necessarily bad, in fact I'm quite interested with his idea, but what I'm sure is that his plan was not well thought through, it doesn't look like he really believes in it and it's was made with the goal to not be elected. [/QUOTE] This makes zero sense to me. Why would he pick three people if not people based on his own town reads? What the hell do you/him mean by "certain reads". What other reads are there when choosing the "team pickers"?[/QUOTE] Lol, you have to be scum. There's absolutely no way I can see you as town. I sat here for like five minutes trying to find the contradiction, then I realized this was just so much easier to explain if you/acro were scum together. [QUOTE]On November 24 2012 05:22 Z-BosoN wrote: [QUOTE]On November 24 2012 05:12 TheChronicler wrote: Again there's no contradiction and I have a hard time believing acro is that bad. Where do I say I'm convinced my plan was bad acro? I still think its what we should have done and what we should do. However, I'm not so blind as to stick to my plan if everyone else thinks its horrible. Do you expect me to scream and shout shitting up the thread? No one liked my plan, I gave it up because shitting up the thread with discussion about it is stupid. Kind of like what you're doing right now... Where did I say the people I chose would be my town reads? You're grasping at straws here trying to make me look bad. I can't help but look at the person who I think started this and then dipped from the thread, Z-Bo[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]On November 24 2012 04:02 Acrofales wrote: Oh jesus. This feels like finding Drazak (not Drazerk) was scum in Acme. The contradictions just keep piling up. Plan: [QUOTE]On November 21 2012 12:25 TheChronicler wrote: [QUOTE]On November 21 2012 11:59 Oatsmaster wrote: random fluff post, Lotta Brazilians :O[/QUOTE] Useless. Don't post like this. [QUOTE]On November 21 2012 12:14 Clarity_nl wrote: I do not have any kind of read on anyone yet. He would be a good choice because if he's scum it'll show comparatively to his town play.[/QUOTE] Who is he? I'm assuming Hapa. ---------------------------------------------- I'd like to be the party leader. I'm an unknown (hopefully) and no one will make stupid bullshit meta reads on the leader that would probably be worse than a coin flip. That's pretty much the only reason I want to lead. I don't even want to pick who will be the three on my team, which takes me to the next part of my pitch, and something I hope whoever is leader uses. If I'm leader I don't want to choose the three people with me. I want to choose three people to choose three people who will be on the team. They can choose themselves if they'd like. Why do this? Because it gets us more information. If I'm not chosen leader I'd like the person who IS chosen to implement this system. We still get information from who the leader chooses, AND we get information based upon who the three chosen people choose.[/QUOTE] Summary: leader dishes out TOWN reads and then each town read dishes out town reads. [QUOTE]On November 24 2012 02:50 TheChronicler wrote: 1) I think I said this, but I don't believe in ever giving town reads because that just says to scum "shoot these people" [/QUOTE] [img]http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/837/f64/b8f/resized/da-fuck-meme-generator-da-fuck-297845.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] Really, no contradiction? At all?[/QUOTE] Really? Two people jumping on the same thing and both being equally wrong? I've given a lot of leeway with reading for this, but I can't find anything in my posts that say I would choose town reads. Why try and make something so easily checked like that up? Something so purposefully misleading only has scum motivation.[/QUOTE] Association based scum read on two unflipped players? Even a scrub like me knows that's sloppy play... -_-[/QUOTE] So we have a strong town read turn into a null read and an association tell on another player. If Sand is not scum how is Oats scummy by association? I don't get it. Are you getting somewhere with this? Does attacking my play make you feel better? What is my actual scum motivation for removing Oats then? His new proposed team is Djo Phag and Dieno (based on RC) He dropped a scum and a now 'confirmed' town from his list together. So who does he replace them with? A (now) 'confirmed' town and Phag. If GK is scum (something I am more and more sure of, than I think looking at Phag again might be worth while. Weee association. Firstly, I don’t see any scum motivation in this. Why is it any less likely that I would do this as town? And while we’re at it, let’s get to another point. It is very possible only one scum would be needed to ruin an event. So why is it suddenly you seem to assume for this entire argument that I as scum would feel I needed to bring a scum buddy along? That finishes cycle one- | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 29 2012 12:11 Promethelax wrote: Attacking me instead of the case on you. Good play right there. You are still scum and your response to this case and your play confirm it. Go through NMM XXII post-game and tell me how your play now is any different than it was then. I am both pissed and disappointed right now... | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 29 2012 12:18 Promethelax wrote: fix your tags so I can read anything in there. I would but I don't know where the error is. I'm going to respond to everything you put out, and will worry about formatting after if I still have time tonight. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 29 2012 12:51 Promethelax wrote: Thankfully GK doesn't actually have responses so they are easy to find. I am also amused by his 'I edit a million times' thing versus lol fuck you guys just deal with my fail tags. What about my case is strong and why does it convince you? I have some reservations about Syllo. I'm not sure how I feel about his sudden town read on me (as evidenced by me not being RB'd last cycle) I think scum would have wanted to RB me anyway since they know that I am town. I'm pretty confused about not being RB'd at all. I do edit my stuff heavily. Doesn't meant that I spout massive quotes and make text walls for my scum suspects to have to deal with when making cases against them... | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
My name is Fiona. I have a vigilante-type role. Night 3, I was responsible for 150 points of damage on CaveJohnson. So here's what I propose: 1) You see if anyone comes forward to counterclaim the damage. 2) If someone does one of us is scum. Lynch accordingly. 3) If not, I am incredibly tired of having to deal with ignorant people... I'm going to role claim now, so that later as confirmed town I'm entitled to draw giant pictures of dinosaurs, and run around failing parties like I've been lobotomized. See you guys later after I've calmed down. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 29 2012 13:15 Oatsmaster wrote: Lynch GK. Seriously, what makes you so much better than Dieno? He is basically confirmed town, you are on the verge of scum. If you are town, why is Dieno confirmed and you are not? Not even going to go there. I would suggest to you that you consider the veracity of my claim before you go lynch-happy. And also consider that Acro is not town. He claims 3rd party, but he could very well also be scum. And both could plausibly ruin the success of the party. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On November 29 2012 13:01 Promethelax wrote: here: GK is scum because of his flipping and flopping on Sandroba, Syllo and Djo without reason. GK is scum because of his attempts to direct blue actions. GK is scum because he has a town read on people he wants to be shot GK is scum because he provides useless lists full of so many reads that he doesn't have any ideas of his own. GK is scum because he has knowledge of the scum kp. that is the case. I honestly should have spoilered the rest of it. Attack the length all you want but those are the points you need to address which you have still not addressed. Also note that the case has already convinced at least two of your 'town reads' so maybe think about it. My case clearly served its purpose to push you as the next major scum. Now if we still have cops you'll be a done deal because they will either check you or me and either realize I'm town or you are scum. Either way we get to lynch you next time we have a chance. Thanks for this. It is ten times easier for me to reply to. Briefly: "GK is scum because of his flipping and flopping on Sandroba, Syllo and Djo without reason." I give reasoning in my filter for my reads. As for flipping and flopping, both town and scum change reads... "GK is scum because of his attempts to direct blue actions." Have you seriously never been in games where town suggest who would be the best people to shoot, or RB? These are actions that are commonplace topics of discussion for town... As you can see from my roleclaim, I had a special interest in where vigi shots were being placed. Based on flips, I came to the conclusion that my damage output was not going to kill anyone anytime soon, and that I would be most effective if others were shooting in the same general direction..." "GK is scum because he has a town read on people he wants to be shot." I explained this. Whether or not you believe me is up to you. "GK is scum because he provides useless lists full of so many reads that he doesn't have any ideas of his own." In a game where establishing town is also an important component to the game, I would argue that lists are useful. Hate it all you want, but this isn't a standard game. "GK is scum because he has knowledge of the scum kp." What? Are we discussing my earlier discussion on damage reports. If so: On November 29 2012 03:10 goodkarma wrote: How on earth would I know? There's a very clear divide between which people mafia is likely to shoot and which people town is likely to shoot. If you were to go to the damage report layed out by Dieno and do basic math, you'd come to a similar conclusion. As for convincing others, people are lazy. They like to look at things and go, "well it's a long detailed case, the gist of it looks okay, it must be right." Without actually digging into filters and checking the facts... Seriously look at what you did in NMM XXII and compare to this game. You made an equally bad case there... The only difference here is that 1) it's waayyy longer and 2) I know your play better now and understand a town prox is capable of making terrible cases. | ||
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