On November 29 2012 00:44 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 21:40 risk.nuke wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 21:14 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 20:57 risk.nuke wrote:
Goodkarma, exclude oats from your mission team and you have my vote.
Trust and something approaching praise coming from risk.nuke, how... unusual.
Risk, what do you feel is wrong with Sandro and Syllo at the moment?
I don't know what you are talking about Acro.
As for Oats, He made a tunnelcase on clarity and when it didn't work he tried the yell higher approach.
I also didn't like that he voted toad who's notoriously difficult to read but that is a lesser concern.
My main problem with oats is he hasn't really done anything in actual terms to distinguish himself as town while he's playing one of the easier ways to play as scum. Furthermore I get the feeling of two sides of him. One calm and considerate and one yell as high as you can side.
Right now I don't have an abundant of trust for syllogism and sandroba wants to send oats. I have townreads goodkarma and Djodref. Hrmmm. What was your town read of GK based on at this point? In fact, explain Djodref as well.
So far, you have managed to say you didn't have a town read on Oats (which I agreed with at the time, so I didn't think too much into it, but suspicious minds would say you were trying to manipulate town off the party)... and you didn't trust Syllo, without any further explanation. You then throw a seemingly random town read on GK out there. That is what I meant with trust, btw. Your usual meta is to be aggressive and angry at everybody. Your friendliness towards GK feels strange.
This is how you justify it a couple of hours later:
On November 23 2012 00:45 risk.nuke wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 00:37 marvellosity wrote:On November 23 2012 00:34 risk.nuke wrote:On November 23 2012 00:19 Mementoss wrote:
Vote Count
Kitaman27 (4): Kitaman27, Promethelax,phagga, Toadesstern
Goodkarma (2): djodref, goodkarma
Sandroba (4): risk.nuke, Hopeless1der, Acrofales, kushm4sta
Dienosore (1): Dienosore
Syllogism (5): Oatsmaster, Marvellosity, Clarity_nl, iamperfection, TheChronicler
Players who have yet to vote (9): CaveJohnson, Hapahauli, Z-BosoN, strongandbig, BioSC, Keirathi, syllogism, Adam4167, sandroba
Remember that voting is mandatory.
All votes must be in by Thursday, Nov 22 11:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)
I forgot to unvote.
##unvote: Sandroba
##Vote: goodkarma risk, what makes you feel so good about goodkarma?
I like how he post. I feel I can follow his thoughts.
I feel I need something more to justify this weak-ass vote on a weak-ass candidate. I am not understanding your thought process this game, which is somewhat unusual, because you're usually far more transparent.
Then comes the whole Sandroba ordeal. There are two ways of reading this: a townie who think Sandroba might be scum, but isn't sure... and scum waiting for Sandro to give him any reasonable opportunity to not bus his scumbuddy. Not much more to say on this issue.
However, this is interesting:
On November 24 2012 05:01 risk.nuke wrote:<snip>
Chronicler
I didn't like his initial plan in the terms of that I didn't agree with it. On the other hand "IF" he is town I don't feel the plan was beneficial for the mafiateam either so from that perspective I can see what he was going for. A lot of people make up their own plans because they like the sense of leadership. I don't think his candidacy plan is alignment revealing.
I especially liked this post
(clicky) from him, even more so in hindsight of syllos sucess.
I am slightly leaning town on him.
Post in question:
On November 22 2012 03:42 TheChronicler wrote:
I'm going to place my vote on syllo. Cave seems to be pushing syllo as someone who can't be elected because he's "taken himself out" when he's a very viable candidate. I'm driving to California, and won't be back in the thread for a good 12 hours. I will try to keep up with the thread on my phone, though. Just don't expect your questions to be answered until I get to my parents' place tonight.
This was one of the posts that set alarm bells off in my mind (and I believe some other players' minds too). I am thus completely and utterly confused: why did this give you a town read on him? How the hell do you go from "Chronicler provides a bad excuse to drop his plan and sheep the majority" to "town read"?
And here we have some more buttfuck terrible reasoning:
On November 24 2012 05:20 risk.nuke wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 05:13 Djodref wrote:On November 24 2012 05:01 risk.nuke wrote:On November 24 2012 04:09 Djodref wrote:On November 24 2012 02:24 risk.nuke wrote:On November 24 2012 00:47 Djodref wrote:On November 24 2012 00:16 risk.nuke wrote:On November 23 2012 23:43 Djodref wrote:
I might have sounded angry but I honestly think that this sandroba wagon is pretty stupid. Nobody really brings an original argument and is sheeping syllo ">50% chance that sandro is mafia" and/or basically lynching a lurker with contributions.
It's the perfect situation for the mafia to mislynch sandro if he is town, not contribute, blend in. I don't like how this D2 starts at all.
For example, risk.nuke dropping in the thread and casting his vote against sandro with his "waiting for sandro to participate to switch my vote to ..." without even giving any alternatives. Fuck this kind of attitude !
FoS risk.nuke
"without giving any alternatives"...
Do you understand that bringing up alternatives would completely contradict the very reason I parked my vote on sandroba.
The point was to build pressure to force him into activity. Saying, I'm parking my vote on sandroba but if he doesn't show up I'm going to vote this guy is just... dumb doesn't even suffice.
@risk.nukeWell, obviously it didn't work because sandro is supposedly sleeping now. What do you plan to do now ?
Play the waiting game.
@risk.nukePlay the waiting game ?
On November 21 2012 18:34 risk.nuke wrote:
*snip*
I'm not sure how missions are going to work but to prepare for anything these quality's are what we seak.
We need a player who's smart, adaptable to new situations and capable of finding the optimal play.
We need a player who's good at analysing behaviour and who's good at finding townies.
This is Sandroba in a nutshell. I've seen firsthand how he think and he is one of the few people I've met I trust can identify the correct play in a new situation. In SS mafia he created and executed the plan that dismantled the mafiateam in a day. Furthermore from my experience Sandroba's greatest strength is finding townies and then scum by process of elimination.
Additionally his activity is promising and I have a pretty good insight of how he plays.
##Vote: Sandroba
@risk.nukeObviously, you know sandroba a little. Could you explain me why you feel like playing the waiting game with sandro is a good idea for today ? He explicitly told us that he was going to get busy this week-end
Why couldn't you share a little more about what you think of sandroba so far while we're waiting ?
Of course, I would also greatly appreciate any input on TheChronicler ^^
Because I want to hear what he have to say before I decide if I want to lynch him or not.
Right now I don't feel sandroba is demonstrating qualitys I would expect from a town sandroba.
This might be because he is genuinely busy or just bloody arrogant or scum. Either was right now I want to hear from him, there is time.
Chronicler
I didn't like his initial plan in the terms of that I didn't agree with it. On the other hand "IF" he is town I don't feel the plan was beneficial for the mafiateam either so from that perspective I can see what he was going for. A lot of people make up their own plans because they like the sense of leadership. I don't think his candidacy plan is alignment revealing.
I especially liked this post
(clicky) from him, even more so in hindsight of syllos sucess.
I am slightly leaning town on him.
@risk.nukeThat's analysis after the fact. At this time, there was no reliable way for us to know if syllo was town or not.
Speaking for myself, I've been deciding this after a careful analysis of his posts and I've decided that I should take the risk of voting him. I'm talking about a risk here because he didn't want to reveal his party beforehand, which is something I liked. And that's something TheChronicler shouldn't have liked, given his campaign platform.
TheChronicler looked very afraid to vote a scum as a party leader and his plan was all about getting "information". Hence, his vote on syllo doesn't make any sense from a town TheChronicler perspective. In fact, the whole story of a town TheChronicler which wanted to be elected on a bad idea doesn't make sense. Hence, scum.
Further thoughts ?
By the way, your vote on sandroba is useless...
We may not know for sure syllos alignment but as long as occams razor says syllo is town then that speaks in chronicles favor.
If my vote on sandroba is useless, is that why you're so attracted to it? Birds of a feather flock.
TC voted for Syllo when Syllo was building momentum and everybody else was losing it.
You are a good player. You KNOW there would be scum on a wagon like that. Why is TC's complete throwaway reason a town tell?
There's some other incongruencies:
On November 24 2012 20:43 risk.nuke wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 14:18 kitaman27 wrote:There are a couple people whose filters I've looked through that I believe warrent mention. The first would be nuke.
On November 21 2012 18:34 risk.nuke wrote:
Hi, I'd proposed myself to lead the party since I feel I possess the essential quality's we'd want for a mission leader. But I feel I'm late to sign myself up and as it stands there already is already a candidate I want to support. As it stands right now I want Sandroba for our first party leader.
No disrespect to marv who's one of the best scumhunters I know on these forums but a scumhunter isn't what we need today.
I'm not sure how missions are going to work but to prepare for anything these quality's are what we seak.
We need a player who's smart, adaptable to new situations and capable of finding the optimal play.
We need a player who's good at analysing behaviour and who's good at finding townies.
This is Sandroba in a nutshell. I've seen firsthand how he think and he is one of the few people I've met I trust can identify the correct play in a new situation. In SS mafia he created and executed the plan that dismantled the mafiateam in a day. Furthermore from my experience Sandroba's greatest strength is finding townies and then scum by process of elimination.
Additionally his activity is promising and I have a pretty good insight of how he plays.
##Vote: Sandroba
The thing that bothers me the most about this post is how much resolve nuke has that sandroba is the right man for the job. He doesn't question whether or not sandroba is actually town, which is the first thing I'd be looking for.
"Furthermore from my experience Sandroba's greatest strength is finding townies and then scum by process of elimination."
This quote is what I found the most off. When I think of sandroba, I think of a good late game scumhunter. What makes him think that sandroba is a great town hunter, compared to anyone else? It's as if he is coming up with a reason that is perfect for the job to justify his vote.
On November 21 2012 23:27 risk.nuke wrote:
No I read your arguments, but they sounded inadequate and non thought through. What really rubbed me the wrong way was your disregard for individual alignment amongst your list. Right now I feel you didn't care, you just wanted an elite team to go under the pretext that they would be best equipped. You purposefully ignored or didn't consider the risks of a team like that and I really don't like that.
At a later point, nuke attacks arco for his team selection based on experience instead of alignment. This appears to be exactly what he had based his own leader selection upon.
Throughout nuke's filter, he is asking tons of questions, but not providing any opinions of his own. This is something I find myself doing quite often as scum.
Towards the end of the day, after sandroba goes afk, he switches his support to goodkarma. Rather than convincing others that this is the best route, he is more concerned with his own personal selection. He lists two people as town reads, but provides no real reasoning and shows little effort to attempt to get them added to the party.
Today he has voted sandroba on the basis of inactivity. He has not contributed much on day two and hasn't provided any alternate scum reads. He is also not very aggressive, which is something I'm used to seeing when he is town.
I have one other person I'd like to bring up, but it will probably have to wait until morning. I'll choose my prefered lynch candidate after that.
Scummy post from a scummy player.
<snip>
Pretty much the first mention of Kitaman in the game. While I don't think Kita's case was particularly strong and risk is justified in ridiculing it, I am surprised about him asserting that Kita is "scummy". This feels a lot like an OMGUS to just discredit the case off the bat. A case being wrong/bad doesn't make the poster scummy, it makes him wrong/bad.
We never actually get to know why Kita was "scummy". What had Kita done at the time? In fact, for someone claiming a scum read on Kita, there is remarkably little interaction between the two. There is no explanation of the read, no attempt to learn more about Kita, nothing. Risk, why did you think Kita was scum? Do you still think so? Why?
Further questions:
Why did you want to be party leader on D3? I understand the "party was bad" reasoning, but regardless of alignment, you have enough brains to know you had 0 town cred and would never ever get elected in a million years. The decision to try to run just seems really really strange. I can think of a "desperate scum" motivation though. And given that scum was in a pretty bad shape after D1 and D2, desperation is a decent guess of the scum state of mind at that point.
Your reason for not wanting to take Dieno along sounds incredibly forced. You honestly expect us to believe you thought that Dieno's HP would play a bigger role than the fact that he is about as close to confirmed town as we can get without flips?
I know you have already been asked this by someone (Djodref I believe), but your answers were thoroughly unsatisfactory. Try again.
EPT
