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On November 27 2012 12:47 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2012 12:13 Promethelax wrote:
well now that I go look at it objectively yes. Through the whole game I've felt that he was scummy. There are a few things I can point out and say they are super scummy (trying to take leader position over 'confirmed' town) but there are a few that I can point to and go 'oooooooooooh so townie' (opposition to Toad early).
Now I'm null, or go back and forth wanting to hang him and hug him my heart and my head can't agree, but want to look deeper into him after some more flips give me some context. @PromTrying to take the leader position over a "confirmed" town is not super scummy at all. The "confirmed" town is never 100% confirmed. The only thing town players know are their own alignment so it's natural for them to propose themselves as a party leader. I trust myself more than anyone esle here. The fact you consider this a super scummy lead me to think that you didn't think this candidature issue with a town mentality. Also, even if you were confidant than sandro was scum during our second cycle, nothing was preventing you from building a case and put some heavy pressure on Hapa, something you didn't do.
I disagree with you totally. Wanting it and thinking that others should vote you aren't the same. I want to be in the party. I know it won't happen so I support the guy who I think should be and detract from the guy who shouldn't.
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On November 27 2012 13:05 Hapahauli wrote:Wait do you mean "bussing" or do you mean "opposing" the Sandro campaign? Because I really don't understand what you're saying unless you're talking about this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=40#795I just stumbled across it and it does give me pause. I'm not sure what motivation Prom would have about tearing down Sandro's campaign at this stage of the game. Sandro's campaign wasn't doing all that bad at this point. On a side note, I really need to go back and look over the votes from D1. That's something that's been pretty absent from our analysis thusfar.
I'm talking about day 2.
Sandro claimed that he was roleblocked, and Prom said "Sandro, why did you target syllogism?" Then Sandro answered that he used Shadow on syllogism. That was a major factor in me voting for Sandro, because at the time, I thought Prom was implying that he was some kind of watcher/tracker, and that Sandro had targetted Syllo even though he claimed to be roleblocked and was therefor lying.
Then, of course, Prom explained his ability the next day, and it was nothing like that, just a gambit/hunch that sandro had targetted syllo.
Now, does that seem like a normal way to bus, if your scum team is telling you to bus in the QT? I don't. It would have been much more natural to either just sheep onto the wagon or make up a case.
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On November 27 2012 13:14 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2012 13:05 Hapahauli wrote:Wait do you mean "bussing" or do you mean "opposing" the Sandro campaign? Because I really don't understand what you're saying unless you're talking about this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=40#795I just stumbled across it and it does give me pause. I'm not sure what motivation Prom would have about tearing down Sandro's campaign at this stage of the game. Sandro's campaign wasn't doing all that bad at this point. On a side note, I really need to go back and look over the votes from D1. That's something that's been pretty absent from our analysis thusfar. I'm talking about day 2. Sandro claimed that he was roleblocked, and Prom said "Sandro, why did you target syllogism?" Then Sandro answered that he used Shadow on syllogism. That was a major factor in me voting for Sandro, because at the time, I thought Prom was implying that he was some kind of watcher/tracker, and that Sandro had targetted Syllo even though he claimed to be roleblocked and was therefor lying. Then, of course, Prom explained his ability the next day, and it was nothing like that, just a gambit/hunch that sandro had targetted syllo. Now, does that seem like a normal way to bus, if your scum team is telling you to bus in the QT? I don't. It would have been much more natural to either just sheep onto the wagon or make up a case.
Well it looks like Promethelax voiced his initial suspicions of Sandro in this post:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=114#2276
...where he insta-votes him and is really confident he's scum.
All that you describe is after the fact, after Prom is "convinced" that Sandro is scum. All that reads super-strange to me, and reads as really really forced. I can see where you're coming from though that it is a very unnecessary release of information on his part. I have some thinking to do about that.
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EBWOP: Again, I don't necessarily have a strong read on Prom. Maybe he is scum, maybe he's not. But we have 2 red checks that are our number 1 and 2 priorities, and I doubt we'll get a third lynch cycle, so this discussion is kind of pointless.
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On November 27 2012 13:20 Keirathi wrote:
EBWOP: Again, I don't necessarily have a strong read on Prom. Maybe he is scum, maybe he's not. But we have 2 red checks that are our number 1 and 2 priorities, and I doubt we'll get a third lynch cycle, so this discussion is kind of pointless.
Uhh did I miss something? Who's our 2nd red check?
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TC has a parity check on Acro and Hopeless. They are different alignments.
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On November 27 2012 13:22 Keirathi wrote:
TC has a parity check on Acro and Hopeless. They are different alignments.
Ohhhh. So Hopeless is scum then. Well guess my last thing on him was quite wrong then.
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On November 27 2012 13:25 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2012 13:22 Keirathi wrote:
TC has a parity check on Acro and Hopeless. They are different alignments. Ohhhh. So Hopeless is scum then. Well guess my last thing on him was quite wrong then.
I'm pretty on the fence about which one of the two are scum.
I mean, a case can definitely be made for Hopeless being scum. Hell, they HAVE been made.
But I could make a case that Acro is scum too :o
Not to mention the fact that TC checked Acro vs Hopeless is weird as fuck to begin with.
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On November 27 2012 13:27 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2012 13:25 Hapahauli wrote:On November 27 2012 13:22 Keirathi wrote:
TC has a parity check on Acro and Hopeless. They are different alignments. Ohhhh. So Hopeless is scum then. Well guess my last thing on him was quite wrong then. I'm pretty on the fence about which one of the two are scum. I mean, a case can definitely be made for Hopeless being scum. Hell, they HAVE been made. But I could make a case that Acro is scum too :o Not to mention the fact that TC checked Acro vs Hopeless is weird as fuck to begin with.
Well the check makes sense given Hopeless's rather strange attitude toward Acro (and Z-Bo). Given the two, I'd take Acro as the townie in a heartbeat. There is of course the outside chance that there's a mafia-framer type ability somewhere, but thankfully all this is after we lynch Toad ofc.
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On November 27 2012 13:31 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2012 13:27 Keirathi wrote:On November 27 2012 13:25 Hapahauli wrote:On November 27 2012 13:22 Keirathi wrote:
TC has a parity check on Acro and Hopeless. They are different alignments. Ohhhh. So Hopeless is scum then. Well guess my last thing on him was quite wrong then. I'm pretty on the fence about which one of the two are scum. I mean, a case can definitely be made for Hopeless being scum. Hell, they HAVE been made. But I could make a case that Acro is scum too :o Not to mention the fact that TC checked Acro vs Hopeless is weird as fuck to begin with. Well the check makes sense given Hopeless's rather strange attitude toward Acro (and Z-Bo). Given the two, I'd take Acro as the townie in a heartbeat. There is of course the outside chance that there's a mafia-framer type ability somewhere, but thankfully all this is after we lynch Toad ofc.
Yes, checking Hopeless makes sense. Checking him against someone who's still an "unknown" rather than against one of the near-confirmed town people is what doesn't make sense. Why not check him against, say, Dieno?
And there are just too many weird things about Acro for me to ignore.
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On November 27 2012 13:34 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2012 13:31 Hapahauli wrote:On November 27 2012 13:27 Keirathi wrote:On November 27 2012 13:25 Hapahauli wrote:On November 27 2012 13:22 Keirathi wrote:
TC has a parity check on Acro and Hopeless. They are different alignments. Ohhhh. So Hopeless is scum then. Well guess my last thing on him was quite wrong then. I'm pretty on the fence about which one of the two are scum. I mean, a case can definitely be made for Hopeless being scum. Hell, they HAVE been made. But I could make a case that Acro is scum too :o Not to mention the fact that TC checked Acro vs Hopeless is weird as fuck to begin with. Well the check makes sense given Hopeless's rather strange attitude toward Acro (and Z-Bo). Given the two, I'd take Acro as the townie in a heartbeat. There is of course the outside chance that there's a mafia-framer type ability somewhere, but thankfully all this is after we lynch Toad ofc. Yes, checking Hopeless makes sense. Checking him against someone who's still an "unknown" rather than against one of the near-confirmed town people is what doesn't make sense. Why not check him against, say, Dieno? And there are just too many weird things about Acro for me to ignore.
Do tell. To me he seems pretty engaged with things. I don't know what he's capable of as scum, but his filter looks pretty townie at first glance.
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On November 27 2012 10:33 iamperfection wrote:
Actually answer this hopeless were you healed or not i don't see why you would say think.
hopeless answer this please
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On November 27 2012 13:37 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2012 13:34 Keirathi wrote:On November 27 2012 13:31 Hapahauli wrote:On November 27 2012 13:27 Keirathi wrote:On November 27 2012 13:25 Hapahauli wrote:On November 27 2012 13:22 Keirathi wrote:
TC has a parity check on Acro and Hopeless. They are different alignments. Ohhhh. So Hopeless is scum then. Well guess my last thing on him was quite wrong then. I'm pretty on the fence about which one of the two are scum. I mean, a case can definitely be made for Hopeless being scum. Hell, they HAVE been made. But I could make a case that Acro is scum too :o Not to mention the fact that TC checked Acro vs Hopeless is weird as fuck to begin with. Well the check makes sense given Hopeless's rather strange attitude toward Acro (and Z-Bo). Given the two, I'd take Acro as the townie in a heartbeat. There is of course the outside chance that there's a mafia-framer type ability somewhere, but thankfully all this is after we lynch Toad ofc. Yes, checking Hopeless makes sense. Checking him against someone who's still an "unknown" rather than against one of the near-confirmed town people is what doesn't make sense. Why not check him against, say, Dieno? And there are just too many weird things about Acro for me to ignore. Do tell. To me he seems pretty engaged with things. I don't know what he's capable of as scum, but his filter looks pretty townie at first glance.
First, the whole One-Shot Role Cop with a red check on Toad, but doesn't claim it until AFTER TC comes in claiming a parity check with Toad being scum.
One-Shot Cop with a red check is an insanely easy way to claim towncred, especially if your teammate has already been outed and likely to be lynched. I will admit that he could have just been thinking "oh, there's no lynch today, so no real reason to claim right now" if he was town and then only claimed he also had a red check on Toad because TC had already claimed. It's hard to determine which one is more likely though, so its a minor point, but I'm paranoid 
Then, he refused to be put into the party yesterday. And refuses to explain why. I'm not the only one who thought that was fishy. Again, a minor point, but it makes me second guess my earlier town read, because I don't see much motivation for a person who knows that he is town to flat out refuse to be in the party, without giving some kind of explanation.
And then, of course, the parity check. Like I said, none of the things in and of themselves are super strong points, but how many little "weird, logically improbable" things does it take before that person becomes scum?
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On November 27 2012 13:49 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2012 13:37 Hapahauli wrote:On November 27 2012 13:34 Keirathi wrote:On November 27 2012 13:31 Hapahauli wrote:On November 27 2012 13:27 Keirathi wrote:On November 27 2012 13:25 Hapahauli wrote:On November 27 2012 13:22 Keirathi wrote:
TC has a parity check on Acro and Hopeless. They are different alignments. Ohhhh. So Hopeless is scum then. Well guess my last thing on him was quite wrong then. I'm pretty on the fence about which one of the two are scum. I mean, a case can definitely be made for Hopeless being scum. Hell, they HAVE been made. But I could make a case that Acro is scum too :o Not to mention the fact that TC checked Acro vs Hopeless is weird as fuck to begin with. Well the check makes sense given Hopeless's rather strange attitude toward Acro (and Z-Bo). Given the two, I'd take Acro as the townie in a heartbeat. There is of course the outside chance that there's a mafia-framer type ability somewhere, but thankfully all this is after we lynch Toad ofc. Yes, checking Hopeless makes sense. Checking him against someone who's still an "unknown" rather than against one of the near-confirmed town people is what doesn't make sense. Why not check him against, say, Dieno? And there are just too many weird things about Acro for me to ignore. Do tell. To me he seems pretty engaged with things. I don't know what he's capable of as scum, but his filter looks pretty townie at first glance. First, the whole One-Shot Role Cop with a red check on Toad, but doesn't claim it until AFTER TC comes in claiming a parity check with Toad being scum. One-Shot Cop with a red check is an insanely easy way to claim towncred, especially if your teammate has already been outed and likely to be lynched. I will admit that he could have just been thinking "oh, there's no lynch today, so no real reason to claim right now" if he was town and then only claimed he also had a red check on Toad because TC had already claimed. It's hard to determine which one is more likely though, so its a minor point, but I'm paranoid Then, he refused to be put into the party yesterday. And refuses to explain why. I'm not the only one who thought that was fishy. Again, a minor point, but it makes me second guess my earlier town read, because I don't see much motivation for a person who knows that he is town to flat out refuse to be in the party, without giving some kind of explanation. And then, of course, the parity check. Like I said, none of the things in and of themselves are super strong points, but how many little "weird, logically improbable" things does it take before that person becomes scum?
Those are fair points. Especially the party thing - goes back to what I was running my candidacy on, being the lone scum in a pool of confirmed townies is pretty bad news. I'm really unsure about why Acro wouldn't claim his mechanic - generally it's pro-town to reveal those things (somewhat like a self-aware miller claim).
Well that's enough to sleep on I suppose. Acro, Prome, and Z-Bo are all on the to-do list for tomorrow.
Gnite!
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On November 27 2012 13:42 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2012 10:33 iamperfection wrote:
Actually answer this hopeless were you healed or not i don't see why you would say think. hopeless answer this please
I did+ Show Spoiler +On November 27 2012 12:03 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2012 10:31 iamperfection wrote:On November 27 2012 09:55 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 27 2012 09:52 Hapahauli wrote:
Grawefakwjehfk I want to lynch someone T_T
Oh well.
@ Hopeless
Curious - did Toad end up healing you? No record of a heal. I took 75 damage. I think I was healed, but the amount doesn't match Toad's claim. What do you mean think It could have been damage prevention, as opposed to an actual heal. The net effect was an apparent 75 damage but I don't know what caused the reduction.
SNIP
K srsly bedtime. Laptop turning off now.
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You get a message saying you were healed if you are healed
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On November 27 2012 14:06 iamperfection wrote:
You get a message saying you were healed if you are healed
What if you were healed and take damage in the same night though?
Like, for instance, if you take a 100 damage shot, and are healed for 50, does your message say "You were hit for 100. You were healed for 50. You lose 50 hp" or does it just say "You lose 50 hp"?
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You get message saying you were healed it never says by how much
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On November 27 2012 14:29 iamperfection wrote:
You get message saying you were healed it never says by how much
My question didn't rely on knowing how much you get healed for. The question is, if you get healed and take damage in the same night, are you notified of both, or only of the net effect?
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Anyways, I've finalized my proposed party:
Me, syllo, Oats, Djodref
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EPT
