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Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
November 27 2012 14:14 GMT
#561
I see we are having like 2 different discussions here, so for clarity sake can we try to phrase our questions to each other better? Because Yamato, as far as I can tell Jacob asked me nothing about my vote on you so your post here makes no sense in the context of mine and Jacobs conversation at the moment

On November 27 2012 23:09 yamato77 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 27 2012 23:08 JacobStrangelove wrote:
Humor me and link to those posts.

He can't, because they don't exist. Besides his ranting on Oats he hasn't given any detailed reasons as to why he voted for me.


But if you would like to ask me questions separate from Jacob's I can do my best to answer.
JacobStrangelove
Profile Joined August 2012
Australia1572 Posts
November 27 2012 14:18 GMT
#562
Yes I did ask about your vote on your scum reads if I recall? Now I can't find it... maybe only in my mind. BUT, yamato was a scum read you ahve so the question is the same one basically.
Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
November 27 2012 14:19 GMT
#563
@Jacob
In-depth might have been a bit of a stretch because honestly I haven't made any single large post on a person. But I have made a case on Oats and the majority of my so called "rage posts" are me pressing the points that I had made - that he is not contributing and that even after asked by multiple people to do so he refused to. Here is my initial post that says this:

On November 25 2012 21:27 Kickstart wrote:
First off your format for your vote is wrong, secondly saying you are "intensely serious" is not a case on cheesecake. Frankly this is ridiculous and so anti-town so far that if it continues I don't think we should keep you around because this is either scum play or bad town play. The beginning of your filter is all fluff, which isn't that big of a deal since it is the start of the game and I don't really expect anything amazing from anyone, but then you post:
Show nested quote +
On November 25 2012 13:23 Oatsmaster wrote:
I got a scum feeling from cheesecake with his first 2 posts, I suggest we lynch him

Show nested quote +
On November 25 2012 13:46 Oatsmaster wrote:
Im seriously not sarcastic.
Seriously.
Its a feeling, I cant base it off anything though :/

I already told you before, if you are suspicious of someone you need to make a better post than that, you need to make a case against the person providing reasons for why they are suspicious.

Then there is this:
Show nested quote +
On November 25 2012 13:53 Oatsmaster wrote:
Yeah, also the worst decision to do 1 for 1 trades.
think about it if I'm scum, why would I randomly single out cheesecake? why did I even post? so far this game is so slow and as scum, they want it that way.


Why would you bring up "think about if I was scum", that is not a town mindset. Scum are the ones who would say something like that, all town needs to do is let their actions show that they are being pro-town, and so far you arent.

And then the final straw for me so far is this:
Show nested quote +
On November 25 2012 18:45 Oatsmaster wrote:
yeah that was kinda extreme and was said to provoke a reaction. Which kinda worked :D
Nothing personal Cheesecake, I think you got extremely screwed by misunderstandings the last game

Show nested quote +
On November 25 2012 21:12 Oatsmaster wrote:
I probably cant be around during lynch but I will try to be there a few hours before.
Vote: Cheesecake
I am intensely serious.
Munk-e and Jacob, where did you go?


So you say yeah ok me saying cheese is scum without providing any reasoning is a bit extreme, THEN YOU DO IT ANYWAYS????? This is unacceptable.

I suggest you start making some real cases, untill then:

##vote: Oatsmaster


Grant it that this is very early in the thread, but my point the entire time has been that Oats' tendencies and posting has not changed at all - all the points I made then are still valid (even more so since they remain unchanged after pleading from numerous people that Oats begin to make sense). Now I do intend to make an updated case Day 2 but the points will still be the same - it is just IO have 3 times as much to point to now from Oats.
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
November 27 2012 14:22 GMT
#564
But your vote landed on me, who you insist to be your second best scum read after posting a really weak read on me when I pressured you to read people.
Writer@WriterYamato
JacobStrangelove
Profile Joined August 2012
Australia1572 Posts
November 27 2012 14:23 GMT
#565
I took that more as calling him out for bad play, Also I seem to have lost a post somewhere. maybe in one of my tabs I forgot to submit it. (and then closed the tab) however what I intended to say it that apart from calling oats out for bad play not much reading was going on. So now that you have time what do you think about yamatos case on cheese? Why did you think he was scum? and what are your current scum reads atm?
JacobStrangelove
Profile Joined August 2012
Australia1572 Posts
November 27 2012 14:24 GMT
#566
ebwop: why did you think yamato was scum* also is there a quick way to search the entire thread for one word?
Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
November 27 2012 14:26 GMT
#567
As far as my vote on Yamato I've explained this as well but will try and sum it up here. I guess I can be accused of not giving a huge case on Yamato, but in my defense he was not my TOP scum read, and I have been tunneling my TOP scum read (Oats) pretty hard, but I feel this is what I should do despite people getting tired of it or whatever, I am here to find scum and will not let up on my top scum read because other people don't agree with it at the moment. Anyways my vote on Yamato can basically be summed up as I had 3 possible choices: Oats, Yamato, Munk-E. Now my top scum read was not getting support from anyone else, so I felt I needed to consolidate and put my vote on who I felt was most likely to be scum between Yamato and Munk-E. This I have already been through numerous times but since you asked I will say it again; to me Munk-E was a coin flip. Yes he was a lurker, but I had no solid read on him either way so voted on Yamato instead, who I had a scum read on and even expressed that I felt he was slightly scummy. Here are the relevant posts I can find:

On November 27 2012 00:38 Kickstart wrote:
I am going to copy the player list and then give reads on them from what I have gathered so far, if you want a more in depth read on someone ask away but I will try and make them as substantial as I can based on what we have to work with so far.

HeloKnight: I read him as a timid townie so far. Early on he was not posting much and got some flak for making easy points, but afterwards he did step it up and defended himself and then went on to make a case on Munk-E, so I get a slight town read on him (although as with most players in the thread so far, there isn't much to go off of).

Aquanim: Despite his case on me I read him as slightly town. Actually the case on me gives me that read because aqau is activiely trying to scum hunt and bringing pressure onto people that weren't being pressured at all before, so this I like as town play and encourage him to continue doing.

Mr. Cheesecake: null read. I soft-defended him because I felt like the cases were bad and had no weight, which I think can be agreed upon by everyone. Unfortunatly most of his posting doesn't allow me to have a town read on him because he hasn't done much in the way of sticking his neck out on anything. But on the other hand he has been forced to defend himself for most of Day 1 so I give him a null read thus far.

Sonic Death Monkey: SDM is my top town read so far. Again no one is confirmed town at this point but SDM is playing incredibly well and is a benefit to town at this point. He is pressuring people, providing honest and well thought out reads on people and at this point is a huge asset to town.

Oatsmaster: I think at this point everyone knows my views on Oats, so I won't expand on them much here. I think he is slightly scummy.

Jacob Strangelove: Null-read, here is another player who I don't feel I have enough to work with. He has posted a bit but again I don't feel strongly one way or the other just because there isn't much to go off of here.

Munk-E: There isnt much to be said that is new. Two posts - both not giving us much and one is just jumping on Oats with points that have been made. I would say LURKER but if i have to choose between town and scum I would say slight scum read, simply because I feel a town player would want to be more active while a scum player would do as he has - try to hide and maybe jump on some cases if he sees an opportunity.

Kickstart: I read myself as town ! No but seriously, If YOU want a read on me just read my posts in context, I feel like I have been trying to push sound reasoning and logic throughout the game and been nothing but honest about my reads on people.

Yamato77: Too many one liners for my taste, he did provide one large general read post (much like this one) but other then that has not tried to scum hunt at all - just nothing. I have to give yamato a slight-scum read at this point because he has been around, he has posted enough, but it has mostly been one-liners with no substance. Again I feel like a town player would want to make real, substantial posts instead of just coming in with one liners on everything.


On November 27 2012 01:00 Kickstart wrote:
It seems like I am going to have to consolidate my vote eventually (I won't actually be here AT lynch time because I have class, have to leave a few hours before time) because it seems no one is convinced that Oats is scummy. I will probably have to vote for Munk-E based on the lurker factor and that at least other people have posted, while Munk-E just posts twice, both of which have little town motive behind them. My main issue is I view most lurker lynches as a coin-flip, but if Munk-E doesn't post anything in the next 6ish hours (amount of time I have till need to get ready and go to class) then it will kind of be forced on me to vote for him.


On November 27 2012 05:35 Kickstart wrote:
Been waiting to see if Munk-E is going to make an appearance and vote but so far nothing ;/. I have about 2 more hours before I am gone until after lynch so I will wait a bit longer and hope he appears. At this point it seems no one shares my suspicion of Oats and I don't want my vote to be meaningless. So I will probably end up voting for one of my other scum-reads at the moment (between Munk-E and Yamato). I wish Munk-E would come post because as I stated before a his posts are suspicious but there isn't much to go off of, he is basically lurking and a vote on him will be more of a coin-flip than I am comfortable with. I've already expressed my suspicion of Yamato; his short one line posts and just summation of everything - maybe you can make some more reads Yamato so I can get a better feel for what you are actually thinking?

Either way I am going to wait a bit longer before making a final decision, hopefully someone actually posts something instead of everyone sitting around waiting for lynch time to roll around.


Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
November 27 2012 14:34 GMT
#568
Getting asked a million questions at once -_-. I will respond to Yamato's case on cheese shortly, have to re read it to give a decent post on it (from memory I pretty much agreed though). As for my own reads I am not quite ready to give a huge case on anyone yet - I still want to look thoroughly through how the Munk-E lynch went down and the people who voted on him because a lot of my reads will hinge on that. Off the top of my head I still think Oats is either scummy or playing incredibly silly as town (to the point of being a detriment - although if that is the case I wish he would just change his posting because I want to lynch scum, not town who are posting bad), well tbh I am not comfortable giving reads on anyone else yet because I honestly haven't looked into anyone else much - so I will have to decline to give anything atm but promise that I will make at least one detailed case early Day 2.

My thoughts on Yamato's case on Cheese coming up since I was asked.
JacobStrangelove
Profile Joined August 2012
Australia1572 Posts
November 27 2012 14:35 GMT
#569
Hurm... I will chill for a bit and probably sleep ponder on these things. Might see you all in the morning.
JacobStrangelove
Profile Joined August 2012
Australia1572 Posts
November 27 2012 14:36 GMT
#570
On November 27 2012 23:34 Kickstart wrote:
(to the point of being a detriment - although if that is the case I wish he would just change his posting because I want to lynch scum, not town who are posting bad),


as he himself posted he have to lynch scum, unless our blues are psychic.
JacobStrangelove
Profile Joined August 2012
Australia1572 Posts
November 27 2012 14:37 GMT
#571
Being asked a million questions at once is an overstatement but also a good thing from town point of view. Away probably gone unless insomnia kicks in.
Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
November 27 2012 14:38 GMT
#572
Well on a second look at Yamato's case, it doesn't strike me as that strong. He basically just rails on cheese for being a flip flopper (which is true by the way - but not only of cheese, of many players thus far). So all his points are true and valid but I think ultimately weak.
That being said I do think a real case can be made against cheese and I intend to look at him further because his flip flopping at lynch time is pretty suspicious, especially just hopping right on the Munk-E wagon.
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
November 27 2012 15:10 GMT
#573
Kick, please do what I'm doing and look through filters to make a case on someone. If you read something on Oats I don't I want to know. His filter is erratic, sure, but that doesn't seem to be completely scum motivated.

If you read CC's posts differently you should point out why. If my case is weak you should be able to say why. You say the points are valid, so why is the case weak?
Writer@WriterYamato
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
November 27 2012 15:20 GMT
#574
Also I want more from Aqua and Helos.

Aqua, you made the original case on kick. Your vote stuck with kick. What do you think of his play right now? Is your backing of your initial scum read final or are you still suspicious?

Helos, your main scum read was wrong. He happened to be one of mine, too, but who else would you be suspicious of? Me?
Writer@WriterYamato
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
November 27 2012 15:30 GMT
#575
EBWOP: backing off of* your initial scum read
Writer@WriterYamato
Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
November 27 2012 15:40 GMT
#576
The points being valid doesn't make the case strong. My point is that saying he flip flopped around the vote doesn't make for a strong case because
a) there could be town motive to it
and
b) A LOT OF PEOPLE DID IT (in other words I could take your case and apply it to numerous other people without changing ANY of your points, they can all apply to lots of other people).

I admitted I read them the same, he flip flopped and that is suspicious, I just think if you want to make a case on someone you are going to need more than that because again you can make the very same point about anyone. But yes I will be making cases and again I think and hope that I can find a strong case from the Munk-E wagon and will be looking at it thoroughly, I may do a post on the lynch as a whole and move on from there.
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
November 27 2012 15:42 GMT
#577
I don't think every point I made applies to everyone that switched votes or I wouldn't have made the case.

Apply it to someone else.
Writer@WriterYamato
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
November 27 2012 15:48 GMT
#578
Lol @ the Yamato case against me.

100% based on WIFOM, I've never seen anything so terrible.

The synopsis: You voted Munk-E so you wouldn't be responsible for my mislynch!

A) We don't know if you're a mislynch. In fact, I should have just lynched your scummy ass when I had the chance instead of feeling sorry for you. The only reason I switched was because I've done the same thing to someone else and he reacted the same way as town. Terrible reason, I know, but it seemed like only me and sdm were trying to figure the whole thing out and that left me guessing; nobody else had a strong stance. By the time I got back everyone for some reason went on Munk and changing my vote would have meant nothing.

B) Here's some wifom: Why would I switch votes when that is suspicious? According to you, either way I'm directing the flow of a mislynch which is bad. Tunneling you to death would be "bad", switching votes is "bad", your logic is double sided and can literally go either way. No matter what I do, I'll look scummy to you. It's pathetic town play if you are, and downright scummy play in essence.

If Yamato was really town, he wouldn't be attacking me right now. A ton of people were flip flopping, look at Jacob for God's sake, and then Oats just trails on the Munk wagon. Everything in his case screams OMGUS, and has literally no substance to it at all.

My top two scumreads right now are oats and yamato. Scumteam if association cases are viable this early.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
JacobStrangelove
Profile Joined August 2012
Australia1572 Posts
November 27 2012 15:51 GMT
#579
Oh just something I have to say so it doesn't keep me up all night. Looking at what munke was saying might be good. at least we know his intentions are pure.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
November 27 2012 15:51 GMT
#580
@Kick

Why the fuck are you defending me? Also, what makes you sooooo sure you'll live to see Day 2?
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
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