EPTI am talking about aqua.
Newbie Mini Mafia XXXI - Page 27
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
I am talking about aqua. | ||
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JacobStrangelove
Australia1572 Posts
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JacobStrangelove
Australia1572 Posts
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
Can you make a case on either one? I cant. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On November 27 2012 06:11 Aquanim wrote: ... I'm not comfortable leaving a vote on Munk-E when his filter (and the substantiation of any reads on him) could quadruple in size. ... At that point Munk-E had made four in-game posts (one of which I don't think I saw) and I had no idea which of a Yamato or Munk-E lynch would take off. Regardless, I think the Munk-E wagon was so big that scum would feel quite comfortable both hopping on it - safety in numbers. Which brings me to Kickstart. To clarify, I don't think that pushing Oatsmaster as he did then or now is scummy - it just wasn't particularly town (ranting about bad/incautious town plays is not a hard thing to do). My concern is and always was his repeating defence of Cheesecake - it was the consistent theme of the majority of his posts. I've never played mafia on a forum before (and not much elsewhere) but I've read a few games, and someone spending most of their posts defending another player seemed completely bizarre. However, I've realised a flaw in my case. At the end, I listed three possibilities: On November 26 2012 17:35 Aquanim wrote: ... There are three possibilities: (1) Kickstart is scum, knows Mr. Cheesecake is town and is white-knighting him. A lot. (2) Kickstart and Mr. Cheesecake are both scum and Kickstart is defending his scumbuddy. (3) Kickstart is town, has a town read on Mr. Cheesecake (correct or not) and for some reason feels the need to defend him vehemently against all attacks, in lieu of any actual search for scum. These all assume that Kickstart was deliberately choosing to defend Cheesecake a lot (which, as I've said, makes no damn sense to me as a town move). However, if this wasn't a conscious decision and he just happened to spend a lot of time defending CC, then that makes some sense. The points (or lack thereof) he was attacking in the CC cases were indeed not that good and his statements were rational. So, having found a credible town explanation for Kickstart's posting I'm downgrading my scum read on him. He is not a town read, either. Attacking very bad play and refuting fallacious arguments are not hard for scum to fake. More reading and posting after food. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On November 27 2012 16:52 Oatsmaster wrote: Why would scum try to shoot down bad arguements? doesnt it benefit them to have suspicion on a town player? Well, yes... but it benefits scum more to look like they are townies. Almost every case scum makes is going to be on a town player, so they're going to have to lie a lot. By defending a townie, a scum player can make an argument which they know is correct. Furthermore, if they refute a bad case, that doesn't mean they can't make a better case on that player later without appearing to contradict themselves so much. And for that matter, bad cases are easier to refute without letting slip that the scum player KNOWS the other guy's town. Attacking bad arguments is also a good thing to do as town, so it's not much of a direct tell IMO. But as I said, if a player hasn't done anything which would be hard for scum to do, that's cause for suspicion in my book. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On November 26 2012 15:56 yamato77 wrote: I'll make my case against CC when I get home. My early game posts were obviously bad play. I get that now. Since then I think I'm quickly improving. I keep asking because it does no good to be town and get lynched day one for playing like scum. That being said, I completely understand SDM's vote to me, but I have not changed my opinion on CC. What happened to the case on CC? I know you were defending yourself, but I still want to see this case. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
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JacobStrangelove
Australia1572 Posts
On November 27 2012 18:26 Aquanim wrote: @Mr. Cheesecake: What do you think is important for a good town atmosphere in Day 1? How do you think you contributed to this? How does this question help? (then again how does the question I am asking now help) hmm *starts searching filters for scum* | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On November 27 2012 20:30 JacobStrangelove wrote: How does this question help? (then again how does the question I am asking now help) hmm *starts searching filters for scum* I'm having difficulty understanding Cheesecake's thought processes at the moment. I'd like to hear him express an opinion on something which isn't a direct attack or a response to an "OMG you're scum!!!1!" so I can get to know him a little better. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
(Votecounts in the spoilers.) 26th November (Before this is Oatsmaster's CC vote and Kickstart's Oats vote.) [4:59] SDM FoS's Cheesecake, makes case largely based on meta. [5:01] SDM votes Cheesecake. [5:18] Munk-E appears in thread with useless post. [6:18] Munk-E makes a less useless post on Oatsmaster. [6:58] Having obtained a meaningful post from HeloKnight, CC un-FoS's him and Cheesecake votes Yamato. [7:02] SDM unvotes Cheesecake. SDM votes Yamato. + Show Spoiler + Votecount: Mr. Cheesecake(1): Oatsmaster Oatsmaster(1): Kickstart Yamato77(2): Mr. Cheesecake, Sonic Death Monkey [9:22] HeloKnight analyses Munk-E's (short) filter. HeloKnight votes Munk-E. [16:49] Aquanim votes Munk-E. [17:35] Aquanim makes Kickstart case. Aquanim votes Kickstart. [23:10] Yamato makes a long defensive post and gives his reads. [23:14] SDM summarises current cases. 27th November [0:09] Kickstart makes an angry counter-post to case against him. [0:15] SDM votes Munk-E. + Show Spoiler + Votecount: Mr. Cheesecake (1): Oatsmaster Oatsmaster(1): Kickstart Yamato77 (1): Mr. Cheesecake Munk-E(2): HeloKnight,Sonic Death Monkey Kickstart(1): Aquanim [0:38] Kickstart posts his reads. [0:39] Yamato votes Munk-E. [2:13] Jacob votes Yamato. [2:16] Cheesecake analyses Yamato further, and expresses the opinion that he "feels like this Munk-E lynch is an easy way for scum to secure a mislynch". Likes Helo, feels Oats isn't doing much. [5:51] Munk-E makes a post on Yamato. Munk-E votes Yamato. [6:04] Kickstart is satisfied with Munk-E. Kickstart unvotes Oatsmaster. Kickstart votes Yamato. [6:11] Aquanim leaves vote on Kickstart and leaves. [6:33] HeloKnight posts on Munk-E, is not convinced. [7:19] Yamato rants at Munk-E. + Show Spoiler + Votecount: Mr. Cheesecake (1): Oatsmaster Yamato77 (4): Mr. Cheesecake, Kickstart, Jacob, Munk-E Munk-E (3): HeloKnight, Sonic Death Monkey, Yamato77 Kickstart(1): Aquanim [7:25] Mr. Cheesecake votes Kickstart. [7:47] Mr. Cheesecake unvotes Kickstart. [7:51] Oatsmaster votes Kickstart. [8:40] Mr. Cheesecake votes Munk-E and leaves. Justifies his switch by saying he thinks lynching a town Munk-E would be better than lynching a town Yamato. [8:40 - 8:55] Jacob and Yamato discuss Yamato's play. [10:10] Debears is modkilled. + Show Spoiler + Votecount: Yamato77 (3): Kickstart, Jacob, Munk-E Munk-E (4): HeloKnight, Sonic Death Monkey, Yamato77, Mr. Cheesecake Kickstart(2): Aquanim, Oatsmaster [10:11] Jacob claims he "can't vote for Yamato with the votes like this". Jacob votes Munk-E. [10:17] Oatsmaster and Kickstart going at it again. [10:52] HeloKnight posts about Munk-E again. [11:25] Oatsmaster approves of Kickstart's "vitriol and fire" play. Oatsmaster unvotes Kickstart. Oatsmaster votes Munk-E. + Show Spoiler + Votecount: Yamato77 (1): Kickstart, Munk-E Munk-E (6): HeloKnight, Sonic Death Monkey, Yamato77, Mr. Cheesecake, Jacob, Oatsmaster Kickstart(1): Aquanim [11:35] Munk-E makes a pretty bad final plea. [11:36] HeloKnight becomes a little more conciliatory about Munk-E's play, but doesn't want to lynch Yamato. ... and nothing more of importance until Munk-E flips VT at 12. At least he wasn't blue, I guess. So, what's to be learned from this? One question is: what happened to the Yamato lynch? Up until four hours before lynch Yamato was leading Munk-E in the lynch stakes. @everyone who switched from Yamato to Munk-E (in other words, everyone except Kickstart): Why did you switch? And for that matter, Kickstart, why didn't you switch? Also of note: HeloKnight made the original case on Munk-E, and pushed it pretty hard except at the end (when a Munk-E lynch was pretty much a lock): On November 27 2012 11:36 HeloKnight wrote: Okay, I still think it's a little suspicious that your top read also happened to be the wagon of the time, but I'll drop that point because a townie would go after their top scum read. I still don't want to lynch yamato today. I'm trying to not "white knight" him and to keep my mind open to him as scum, but I'm leaning pretty hard towards a newbie town feel right now. Trying to make himself look a little better for when Munk-E flips green, and keeping his options open on yamato? Looking through HeloKnight's filter I don't see much scumhunting substance besides his Munk-E case and an earlier, inconclusive post on Oatsmaster (and let's face it, a case on a lurker with two posts isn't exactly difficult to concoct). I'd appreciate other people looking through HeloKnight's posts and giving your opinion. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
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Kickstart
United States1941 Posts
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JacobStrangelove
Australia1572 Posts
As for helios I went through his filter recently and found it clean however, it's also as you say completely possible to concoct his cases which was something I didn't take into account. | ||
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JacobStrangelove
Australia1572 Posts
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
GIVE IT A BREAK. | ||
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Kickstart
United States1941 Posts
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
ERGH THAT SUCKS. | ||
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