EPTyaaaay mini!
Mario Mini Mafia
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
yaaaay mini! | ||
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Hapahauli
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On November 12 2012 11:36 Keirathi wrote: Have you played before? If not, I highly recommend you play in a Newbie game first, to get a feel for the flow of the game, and the time demand that it requires. I don't think there are any newbie games up atm =/ | ||
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Hapahauli
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Covering my bases if I roll scum ofc. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On November 13 2012 09:07 marvellosity wrote: first things first, any millers should claim. Yep, though are millers self-aware? It doesn't mention anywhere in the role PM listed in the OP | ||
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Oh well 'obv I'm not miller if my lack of reading hasn't tipped that off | ||
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Btw, is Cross a smurf account? I noticed he's played a few recent games but don't know much about him. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On November 13 2012 09:15 Clarity_nl wrote: I don't think anyone will be against millers claiming and a lurker lynch policy. If they are they should speak up. Otherwise we really don't need to mention it again. Oh hum I need something more controversial then. Howabout the lynch DarthPunk policy? I have a hard time reading him and rolls scum 66% of the time when I'm in game with him. Sample size be damned! ##Vote DarthPunk | ||
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The "random vote" gambit has been far overused. I'm not a fan. I'd comment on your post, but I'm not even sure what you're talking about there. | ||
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On November 13 2012 09:37 marvellosity wrote: random vote gambit is overused, yet pointless vote on DarthPunk is so much better, why? It's not so much better - it's just more tasteful IMO | ||
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Hapahauli
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On November 13 2012 09:44 DarthPunk wrote: HI ZB <3. Yeah ZB will figure me out If I am scum, and Vice Versa. Hapa will figure marv out and marv will figure everyone out. GG scummers But what if me, ZB, and marv are all scum o_O Oh, and ##unvote because I don't feel like continuing some half-assed thing early game. And I asked before but no one seemed to respond/care: Sooooo I'm fairly interested in hearing from players I don't know about. Particularly Crossfire and Kickstarter. Btw, is Cross a smurf account? I noticed he's played a few recent games but don't know much about him. Anyone anyone? | ||
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Hapahauli
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On November 13 2012 09:45 iamperfection wrote: i guess theirs no reason not to believe zbos right? has to be to risky to do if he was scum right. Woah woah hold-up. I'm not liking how you're trusting this claim right away. Claiming miller is a pretty much a riskless play here. We don't know how many millers are in the setup, and as far as I'm concerned, the claim is null until Z-Bo proves otherwise. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On November 13 2012 09:47 debears wrote: Who cares????? Even if it's a smurf, behavioral analysis triumphs It's important - I have to know what to expect of him. There's a big difference between a veteran smurf and a guy who's played... 2 other games? Player context is pretty damn important in "behavioral analysis" as you call it. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On November 13 2012 09:50 DarthPunk wrote: Then Blazinghand, Debears and I will rip you all a new arsehole. <3 Oh noes! Well fortunately I'm not scum. + Show Spoiler + I think.+ Show Spoiler + *Bowzer laugh*+ Show Spoiler + jk I'm town On November 13 2012 09:55 iamperfection wrote: its what i think so whatever. Zbos scum is gone put himself out there like that i dont think so. It's not "so whatever" - I'm pretty skeptical how you're so willing to think Z-Bo is town off what looks to me like a completely null action. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On November 13 2012 10:02 iamperfection wrote: well if you think im scum dont be a fucking pussy and vote for me. I said what i thought on the subject. Well that's cause I'm trying to figure out whether your scum or it's just a bad thought process. On November 13 2012 10:01 debears wrote: Hapa, last time you did that little spoiler trick (GsL III), you were the role that you put in the spoiler. Here, you put bowser. Now why would you put bowser out of all the scum roles? It seems to me like you were actively thinking of bowser, which you shouldn't be if you are town. I would expect you to put a town role in that spoiler Well duh Bowzer is on my mind in Mario Mini Mafia But as for the GSL III thing, that was done as a specifically minded breadcrumb - how are you drawing the connection between that? | ||
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Hapahauli
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The VT claim is significant why exactly? | ||
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Hapahauli
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Well in a theoretical sense yes, but you remember how well that worked with Cheesecake in Newbie XXX right? It's really not that significant IMO. | ||
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On November 13 2012 10:11 debears wrote: Eh. I thought you had written that you were also a mafia role in the gsl III spoiler. But, you didn't. So I rescind it. Oh yeah I did in the 2nd spoiler of it, but in the 3rd and 4th lines, I breadcrumbed the "Boxer" role | ||
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Hapahauli
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You're voting him 'cause the post is retarded? And not because it's scummy? The last time you pulled that, you were scum (Mafia LVII). ##Vote DarthPunk ('fo real this time) | ||
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Hapahauli
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On November 13 2012 10:14 Clarity_nl wrote: It's not like he flavor claimed, thinking others didn't know the flavor. How are those situations alike? You don't think it's a weird move for a VT to claim VT day 1? No I don't find it weird. I think it's just a pointless comment that can be made by either alignment. Again, see Mr. Cheesecake's "odd" VT claim time in the Newbie game. Him trusting Z-Bo's claim so up-front is a bit strange, but again, I don't know if it's just bad logic or scum knowing who's who. I haven't seen anything alignment indicative from him yet. | ||
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On November 13 2012 10:24 Clarity_nl wrote: @ Hapa I'll go find that post. Please comment on the votes on strongandbig, and what you think of his claim. You said it's not significant? U sniped me =( Which post are you referencing - Cheese's VT claim or the DP post I'm talking about in LVII? I can pull it up if you want (I know where it is after all). | ||
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Hapahauli
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On November 13 2012 10:29 DarthPunk wrote: I say retarded a lot in every game. As both alignments. Yes, but the similarity to LVII is very uncanny. The scenario is the same - a player makes an early game vote on me, and you immediately turn around and call it "retarded." You didn't even describe how SnB's post made him scummy - you just voted him for a "retarded" vote and nothing else. What makes SnB's vote scummy? | ||
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On November 13 2012 10:27 Clarity_nl wrote: @ Hapa Again, Cheese's claim wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for some weird flavor stuff. The word "retard(ed)" seems to come up a lot in Darth's filter in that game. What makes you think it's scummy? It's because he votes someone for a "retarded" vote rather than a "scummy" vote. That's exactly what scum want to do - lynch "retarded" townies rather than actual scum. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On November 13 2012 10:33 iamperfection wrote: guys a town zbos could lie if he was blue He could be scum he could be vt. I'm inclined looking at the comment that he was just writing what he thought and that it was probably true. He just had a slip of the tongue so i'm actually inclined to think it was actually the truth. It didn't look like to me as a scum making a post in order to put a claim together. Boom i got two town reads already which you gonna do mafia?????????? What's your second read dawg? | ||
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Hapahauli
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On November 13 2012 10:35 DarthPunk wrote: Let me elaborate. He is voting you for thinking ZB's claim is null like many others do and because you find that not doing so is suspicious. I am inclined to agree and find S&B's vote weak because He singles you out from several whom have expressed similar sentiment. He believes ZB and Perfection immediately which I can not empathise with and the stated reason for doing so is that ZB would have made a longer post despite ZB making a fairly lengthy post to begin with. I can not find a way to share his view point as town. Therefore he is being retarded as town, scum or both. And I choose to pressure him with a vote. As I have come into the habit of not using the ever impotent 'FoS'. ##Unvote Well I think that's fair. I still am completely null on him but atleast you have some more reasoning for the vote. | ||
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Hapahauli
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I honestly can't find it. Town read on Z-Bo acknowledged, but I can't find town read #2 unless your unvote of me is a town read. | ||
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On November 13 2012 10:44 debears wrote: What do you guys think of Clarity's early play? It's very similar to his scum play imo. Saying neutral stuff. Then, the vote on S&B. He's coming in and out of the thread, ie active lurking Lol are you srs? | ||
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Hapahauli
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On November 13 2012 10:50 debears wrote: Does S&B normally act like this? Just curious :D Feel free to answer that S&B Well it's weird for sure. I'm used to seeing scum SnB be a lot more "wordy" when he posts. Atleast this was the case in Mafia LVII and Death Note Mini. Howwwwwweva, this post really sets off my scum alarms: He calls debears argument/suspicion on me stupid, when he himself has his vote on me. It's not consistent at all with his suspicions so far, and I can't wrap my head around a townie thought process here. ## Vote StrongandBig | ||
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On November 13 2012 10:56 marvellosity wrote: this makes no sense. the post was stupid, and that's irrelevant of your alignment. Why doesn't it make sense? I'm just saying that SnB changed his vote to someone else before I made my vote on him (in which I reference his vote on me). Perhaps an unnecessary clarification, but it should make sense. | ||
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Hapahauli
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Let us into your mind a little bit - any thoughts/suspicions thusfar? | ||
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On November 13 2012 11:00 marvellosity wrote: so what if he had his vote on you? the post he commented on was stupid, what does him having his vote on you have anything to do with that? Because it's strange. He was far too willing to dismiss the argument of someone who was taking his side on an issue. He didn't attempt to explain anything about his reads in that post. | ||
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@ Kickstarter Heya bud! On November 13 2012 11:11 Kickstart wrote: Just got back from school, it let out a bit early. Had a bit of catching up to do in the thread but not too much has happened yet. I would like to ask Hapa a question though, I think it is only fair since you wanted to know more about me! Hapa: What do you think is most important for a successful Day1 for town, and how do you feel you have contributed? A successful Day 1 is an active Day 1. If townies are open, active, and honest, it generates tons of information and makes it hard for scum to hide. As far as my own contributions, it seems like a really pointless question, since my answer will be biased as either alignment. I'll just let my activity speak for itself over the next 48 hours. Also, I realize you're a new player, so please don't be afraid to post! How open and active you are is really important in order for town to figure out your alignment. If you're town, post! If you're scum, just roleclaim or somethin =D Regarding StrongandBig I'm so torn on him, and fortunately we have another ~40 hours to determine his alignment. I'm undecided whether or not he's just deliberately trolling or not. Having seen him play scum in Mafia LVII and DeathNote Mini, this just seems as such a far departure from his more "careful" scum-style of play. He seems to be really inviting attention to himself at this point and is overall very ambivalent to suspicion against him. On the other hand, his play on it's face right now just seems really scummy. My previous point (on him criticizing debears) still stands, and his recent posting is just ridiculously off. My vote will stay on him until he proves his alignment otherwise. Regarding the Inactives Activity has been really solid so far, but we still have two players who haven't posted, Crossfire99 and Thrawn. I'm not going to judge them after only a couple of hours, but I'm looking forward to hearing from both of them. Also BlazingHand has been very off from his traditional "dick dick dick" screaming townie play. He's notoriously bad at scum, and his play so far is something that I'd expect from his scumplay. Again, not going to judge based on 6 hours, but he'll likely have my vote if he keeps this up. | ||
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Regarding SnB ##Unvote After sleeping on it, I'm starting to agree that his play is too far of a deviation from his normal scum play to be scummy. I don't know what he's thinking, but it's much more reckless of a playstyle than I'd expect of scum SnB. (FWIW, the fact that he's continuing this behavior into today makes me think he's an SK or something. It falls into that "townie but really off" type of play that's common with 3rd party roles.) On November 13 2012 17:42 Clarity_nl wrote: Hapa, this still bothers me. I asked you what you thought about SnB's claim and if you thought it was bad for town, and you answered: You compared this to Cheese's claim from NMM XXX even though the situations are completely different. The only reason Cheese claimed was because he thought only VT's knew the VT flavor. So he was trying to claim without alerting scum. SnB just outright claimed VT. After I explain why it's different, you basically give me the same answer: The other thing I don't really like is the use of "theoretically yes" and "IMO" Whenever I've seen you post you tend to be direct and with conviction, but not this time. I still believe both situations to be the same - they are both strangely timed VT claims. Cheese's intent to "signal" other townies isn't a significant difference, as both potentially fall into the category of "scum wanting to look less suspicious despite not being suspicious." The situations are not identical by any means, but they're more similar than not. Regardless, I'm not suspicious of SnB anymore so I don't want to dwell on this. Regarding the Z-Boson Case I really disagree with it. The case is a giant anecdote for how Z-Boson's actions could be scummy rather than why they're scummy. ZB is setting up to look good as a wagon starter (since scum don't like to stick their necks out) and appear to contribute to town, but if you read his astonishingly short filter, it's clear he's not actually helping. He's flinging shit at the wall and hoping it sticks. All of this isn't valid at all hours into D1. All of the stuff described above is completely non-alignment indicative in the early game. Z-Boson has been less active than I'm used to seeing him, but again early D1 caveats. No reason to vote him. Regarding iamperfection His sudden flip-flop on Z-Boson is really strange. He goes from strongly trusting Z-Bo's claim early in the game to a vote for really shitty reasons. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=22#434 In his vote post, he first picks a fight with BH - odd considering that he's ultimately going to agree with his read. He puts a lot of stock into one of Z-Bo's early D1 postings and early-game banter (meaningless). He then talks about the "iamperfection rule" and another early D1 wishy-washy post. I wouldn't mind this if it weren't for his discussion about the miller claim: I know i said early on that i thought the miller claim was more of a town tell but well i think zbos actions speak louder. WHAT?!?!? Iamperfection had almost no doubt about Z-Bo's motives, and he's willing to do a complete 180 with the above reasoning. Just take a look at his previous stance, made right after Z-Bo's claim: On November 13 2012 09:45 iamperfection wrote: i guess theirs no reason not to believe zbos right? has to be to risky to do if he was scum right. He immediately trusted Z-Boson without question the second Z-Bo made that claim. Then all of a sudden now he turns around and can doubt the claim he so strongly believed in earlier. It makes no sense to me, and it looks like scum jumping on someone the second they have the reason to. This would be fine if he had a good case, but he just hinges on a couple of early D1 posts and the "iamperfection" rule as opposed to anything substantial. It doesn't help that the rest of his filter reads really artificially confrontational to me. It feels like he's trying to overcompensate for being caught in GSL III for not showing his "bravado" throughout the game. ##Vote iamperfection | ||
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Hapahauli
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On November 14 2012 01:51 marvellosity wrote: Guys, guys!!! I think I may have an awesome quiz for you a little later in the evening. It may even be as good as my Palmar quiz in Rock Band. Oooh Quiz =D | ||
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On November 14 2012 02:36 marvellosity wrote: the case on iamp makes zero sense to me, his jumping on Z-bo draws attention to himself massively, for reasons you mention, and I see no reason whatsoever to do that as scum. Well duh it draws attention to himself if I call him out for it, but look at his line of thinking here - he basically completely sheeps BH and only adds the "iamperfection rule." Sheeping someone =/= drawing attention to yourself. It's the exact opposite in fact. | ||
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On November 14 2012 02:41 iamperfection wrote: I changed my mind deal with it bro. When I get home I might do it again. does that make me scum? If so continue if not don't waste my time Yes I think it makes you scum. It's not a coherent thought process. Look at how much you rationalize your town read on Z-Boson from that claim: On November 13 2012 09:45 iamperfection wrote: i guess theirs no reason not to believe zbos right? has to be to risky to do if he was scum right. On November 13 2012 09:50 iamperfection wrote: zbos explained it in his post would have been very risky in my view. On November 13 2012 09:55 iamperfection wrote: its what i think so whatever. Zbos scum is gone put himself out there like that i dont think so. ...then you abandon all of this because of the "iamperfection rule" or some shit like that? I call BS. | ||
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On November 14 2012 02:43 marvellosity wrote: don't be stupid. 1) iamp says miller claim is town 2) iamp votes for miller claim of course it's massively drawing attention to himself. Yes it does draw attention to himself in retrospect, but did he intend to draw intention to himself? I think not. If you look at his vote post, he buries his little "qualification/alibi" sentence at the very end. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=22#434 I know i said early on that i thought the miller claim was more of a town tell but well i think zbos actions speak louder. But seriously, you don't question is motive at all here? He did a 180 based on BH's case that you yourself said was questionable at best. Sure iamperfection could have done other things here. But he didn't, and what he just did is scummy as shit. | ||
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On November 14 2012 02:49 marvellosity wrote: What's the scum motive in blatantly making yourself look bad by contradicting yourself? The scum motive is in completely abandoning/forgetting a town read for shitty reasons when it's convenient for you to do so (BH's case on Z-Boson). Sure it would be smarter for a potential scum-iamperfection to stick to his story. But he didn't do that, and the alternative here is also scummy in it's own right, regardless of the attention he brought to himself. | ||
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I've seen you super critical of virtually every case brought forth so far with little to offer on your own. What's your top scumread atm? | ||
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On November 14 2012 02:55 marvellosity wrote: it isn't "convenient" at all. The hell? BH makes a case, and once it gains traction, iamperfection jumps on it. That's the fucking definition of "convenient" | ||
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Hapahauli
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Oh whoops yeah you're right. Could've sworn someone else jumped on it before. Still though, there's the fact that there was a case on Z-Bo and iamperfection showed no hesitancy to jump on it (despite it being questionable, as well as iamperfections previous read) is still super scummy to me. I want iamperfection to answer for it. For all you're defending him so far, do you think he's town or is this more of a null thing to you? | ||
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On November 14 2012 03:14 marvellosity wrote: why the fuck not? it makes a lot more sense to me as town than it does as scum. Again. Going from INSTANT Z-bo = town because of claim.... To "that didn't matter", "iamperfection rule" is not a coherent line of suspicion. I do not know how you are not seeing this. But seeing how this is going nowhere fast, your current alternative is Blazinghand. What do you think of his recent posting/activity/whatnot in relation to the scumread? | ||
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Regarding iamperfection Scumread still stands. I can't reconcile his thought-process at all. @ Marv On November 14 2012 06:02 marvellosity wrote: This has been bugging me all afternoon. Sure, we're not in his mind, but the job of a good townie is to PUT yourself in someone else's shoes and try to best work out how/what/why they're doing or have done things. And Hapa knows this too. GSL 3: Puts himself in the shoes of a player who was outwardly playing scummily (lurking, not giving reads, etc.). And his read there is that he doesn't see scum Kei doing whatever he was doing. In this game though: He's not willing to put the same thinking process into iamperfection, and this reeks, especially as my main argument in defence of iamperfection is why the fuck would he vote for Z-Bo of all people after his earlier town read on him. You have to think about what he could/should/would do and what iamp did there does not line up with how I see him playing scum, and for some reason Hapa does not address this. He gives some bad 'scum motive' but at the same time doesn't address anything at all with how iamp in particular was thinking at the time. I am trying to put myself in iamperfection's shoes, but I simply can't understand how a townie could do a 180 like that. As for my quote that's "bugging" you, you're taking it out of context. Perhaps I do a poor job of wording it, but my quote above refers to not considering alternative actions as analysis material. I'm saying "I'm not in his mind" in the sense that I don't know why he chose to do what he did, not because I'm unwilling to think from his perspective. Hell I still can't figure out why or how he did his 180 on Z-Bo. Other Observations - Clarity_nl http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=29#580 On November 14 2012 05:00 Clarity_nl wrote: Yeah.... making a case on Darth isn't working, which I think in itself says a lot. ... ##Vote DarthPunk So... you said your case on Darth wasn't working, then forced it anyway and voted him? This is pretty scummy, and you'd have my vote if it wasn't for iamperfection above. Please explain this - it looks like you're forcing a case through for the sake of it rather than providing actual analysis. | ||
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Hapahauli
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I've always heard that BH's scum-play is notoriously bad, and he seems more fearless than I would expect from his "bad" scum play. I'll take a look at the cases, but that's my first impression of him anywho. | ||
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On November 14 2012 07:21 marvellosity wrote: no Hapa, the point is you're not putting yourself in scum iamp shoes, not town iamp shoes. His rationale and motive make sense to me from a scum perspective - I've already mentioned that. Making a 180 when spurred by another case is scummy and convenient. I realize you disagree, but I think you're wrong. And to draw comparisons to the read on Kei you mentioned in GSL III - I find imaperfection's actions alone much more scummy than Kei's actions in GSL III. Kei has a history of reluctant D1 play. Iamperfection doesn't have a history of these things in his town play to my knowledge. | ||
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On November 14 2012 07:25 Clarity_nl wrote: @ Hapa What I meant was: "I'm having trouble making a case on him" The reason I said this was because that actually speaks volumes about how he's been playing. 3 pages of filter and nothing to go on, even when you look closely. I didn't find some "scum gem" in one of his posts and started from there. I had a gut feeling and when I looked into him I found nothing that makes him town or scum, and that's concerning to me. I did provide analysis. So you're suggesting that he's active lurking or something like that? | ||
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On November 14 2012 07:30 Clarity_nl wrote: I'm suggesting that he is blending in. Afterwards it got pointed out that he's also in Acme right now, another active mafia game, and I adjusted my case accordingly. That's fair - didn't really understand your word-choice at first, but I can't blame ya for it | ||
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My first impression is that this is the most needlessly reckless play ever for scum to do. Ever. On the other hand, the claim itself is such an overreaction to the suspicion on him. The former explanation seems more likely to me... but like damn dude... | ||
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On November 14 2012 07:58 marvellosity wrote: oh pish, prplhz claimed cop with 3 votes on him in NMM2 day 1 and he was scum. Well BH isn't prplhz. Prplhz also fake-claimed vigi when we were both masons in Rockband. (/still bitter) Do you think this claim is just a random desperate scum act? I have a hard time believing so. Then again I wouldn't have expected a potentially town BH to do this either. | ||
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On November 14 2012 08:10 iamperfection wrote: Hapa tunnels me almost always regardless of mine or his alignment i dont get why he seems to think ive committed some sort of crime but whatever he can continue to waste time on me or go for something more legitimate. Either way his tunneling of me doesn't tell me anything about his alignment for the time being. However hapa eventually opens up in his decision making process if he is town. Hapa if your scum just continue to waste my time because it will become so clear that your scum. I did what i did you didnt like it tough for you. Either go cry in corner about it if your scum or find some actual scum. @ iamp Can you explain your thought process on Z-Bo to me because I just can't understand it. Why were you so initially convinced he was town based on his claim? Is the case you posted on him the only things you find scummy about him? I can't connect the dots. | ||
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##Unvote From your reactions so far, you're probably town. The "I don't give a fuck" thing has been on full display for the last few hours, and that meta read hasn't been wrong on you yet. I also do like the post on Z-Bo, but I give him less townie points than you do. Z-Bo can push a read as either allignment, but I do agree he's being open so far. | ||
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On November 14 2012 08:40 Blazinghand wrote: yeah the ZB defense imo tells us more about iamp than it does about ZB-- but either way neither of them a good lynch today Yeah I'm looking at Thrawn and Kickstart atm. Thrawn's inactivity is pretty uncharacteristic of him so far. Kickstart as well dumped some suspicion on me and then peace'd out. I'm a bit more forgiving to Kickstart though as a first-time player. So let's get thrawn talking shall we? ##Vote Thrawn (Would love to hear from kickstart too, but more concerned with Thrawn atm) | ||
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Hapauli. Much quieter this game. Much less present. Disappeared during all of my interaction with BH, only to appear after the claim. I don't buy his cases, especially the one on iamp. Completely ignored my first case on BH, and town Hapa usually comments on everything. In the beginning, put on some light pressure on DP, then unvoted him from some easy explanation only to never mention him again. Not a play I'd see hapa do. I'm in school on weekdays - it's impossible for me to be more "present" than I currently am. As for BH, I DID comment on him: On November 14 2012 07:22 Hapahauli wrote: Oh sniped by some cases on BH. I'll get to that in a bit. I've always heard that BH's scum-play is notoriously bad, and he seems more fearless than I would expect from his "bad" scum play. I'll take a look at the cases, but that's my first impression of him anywho. He claimed shortly thereafter, so it was pointless for me to comment more. On to the rest of your stuff: Your Town Reads: Agree on clarity and iamperfection. Clarity seems much more engaged this game than his Newbie XXX game. Iamperfection for reasons previously stated. Disagree on marv. I don't think he's done anything alignment indicative. He's definitely capable of doing this as scum, even though he played a more dispirited game last game. Completely null on him. Your Null Reads: I'm putting SnB into the town category (again POSSIBLY the SK, but I don't want to speculate too much). His play so far is such a far departure from his scumplay. Crossfire is null (duh) I'm getting more scum vibes from Thrawn. He's made one pretty coherent post and just peaced out. He could be afk for RL issues or something, but given that he's never played a scumgame (to my knowledge) and that we have a sudden deviation in his play, the connection is there. Your Scumreads Disagree with me obv, I'm town dawg As for debears, he was one of the players willing to follow me on iamperfection, and he made one of those "overkill"/"overexplained" cases when voting him: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=29#575 It reads as really artificial and a way to cover his bases. Agreed here. I'm firmly null on DarthPunk. Hopeless is lurky, but that's normal regardless of alignment for him (null as well). | ||
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On November 14 2012 09:43 marvellosity wrote: top choice right now hapa? I don't have any strong scum-reads atm, but put a gun to my head and I'd say Thrawn. I haven't seen him play a scum-game, and all of a sudden this game he's 1000x more inactive than all his other town games. Next I would say debears for the reasons I just mentioned. And you? | ||
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On November 14 2012 09:47 marvellosity wrote: i'm starting to ponder debears also Looking at debears, there's not much to say other than there's not much substance in his 4-page filter. Lots of short, 1/2 line posts with banter. He jumps on Hopeless really quickly, who's one of the easier targets in the game. He's then pretty quick to jump on iamperfection, and has been pushing that "read" since. As previously stated, his "vote post" looks like an overkill-case. But the thing that really sticks out to me is that he's been tunneling iamperfection for the last few hours yet still has his vote on Hopeless. He's using a lot of strong language against iamperfection (much stronger than against hopeless), and from his filter it looks like iamperfection is his top scumread. At this point he's much more content to push the read on iamperfection than his one on Hopeless, and I see no townie reason why his vote isn't where his mouth is. ##Unvote ##Vote debears | ||
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It's obviously concerning you haven't been around, and do try and take the time to catch up. As far as "recommendations" for going through the thread - it's hard to suggest anything but to read the whole thing. I'd make sure to go through some of the longer/major cases and post your thoughts on 'em. | ||
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BH - can I get your thoughts on Debears? | ||
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On November 14 2012 11:41 marvellosity wrote: I disagree thrawn looks worse, as I know he genuinely believes in that meta read. It's not specific to this game. I still want to know where the hell he has been. He's posted 3 times - this is unlike anything in his town games. | ||
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On November 14 2012 11:47 Kickstart wrote: Wowzers that was a lot to catch up on, I really tried to post before heading off to school but there was way too much to read and process. I was 100% down with lynching BH... and then he claims jk 1. I still don't like his posting before or after the claim and think that the claim did no one other than himself any good. I would love to flip him just to see, because the way I see it, at worst he is scum trying to save himself (but as stated before that would be REALLY reckless) and at best he is now deadweight. For me the best thing I feel I have to go off of is looking at peoples votes and trying to pick out the scumvotes, and I still think the SnB bandwagon had some scum attached to it (who were basically forced to switch their votes after it being called out for what it was). Top scum read for me is still Hapa. I think he hopped on the SnB wagon, then tried to start an iamp one (with BH, so that is part of the reason I was 100% down for lynching BH and if he flipped red I would have insta voted Hapa - but then BH claimed so....), and now he is voting for debears with everyone else.2 I suppose it is time to put my vote where my mouth is, but I would like to hear other peoples thoughts on Hapa. If most others are getting scum read on him (which some people have already posted that they are) I would like to hear why, likewise if someone thinks hes town I want to hear why. ##Vote: Hapahauli and @Hapa No hard feelings, you have been very kind to me in your posts which I do appreciate but I can't let that influence my reads. What in the shit? NONE of that makes any sense whatsoever. 1) So you were 100% down with lynching BH, yet never made a noise about it? You never posted about him, never acknowledged him, and just sat back and watched the fireworks? I said before - townies need to be open and active. You're doing the opposite right now. 2) So your theory is that I started a bandwagon with my "scumbuddy", however you openly acknowledge that he's the jailkeeper yet vote me anyway? NONE of that is coherent. My vote on debears? I was early to vote him and you haven't said anything about why you disagree with my reasoning. Explain yourself. I'd love to be patient with you but this is ridiculous. | ||
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On November 14 2012 11:55 Blazinghand wrote: kickstart said this over course of reading the thread just now I think, which is why he didn't make an earlier post? He said in post that he wanted to post it "before school" (presumably earlier). This screams a "wait and see" approach. | ||
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On November 14 2012 11:57 thrawn2112 wrote: how will me explaining my irl reasons for my low activity help you with your read on me? i specifically remember you telling me in coaching that you dislike irl excuses and you normally dismiss them as a null tell. I'm genuinely interested 'cause you're like 99% more inactive than anything I've ever seen from one of your town games. | ||
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On November 14 2012 12:07 Kickstart wrote: Blazing is right, I clearly stated on page 22 that I am sleeping now and will attempt to post before heading to school later. I wake up and there are 10+ pages to read and I did not have the time to read all that and form a proper post in ~30 minutes (you constantly saying that I post something and then peace-out is a bit annoying because every time I go to class or sleep I have explicitly stated that I was doing so). And to your second question yes I do view that as you and bh working together, that is why I said I would have auto voted you if BH flipped red otherwise would have had to really reevaluate. And I did not say I believe his JK claim???? I said it was a horrible claim and makes him "deadweight" now (3rd time saying this now...). Your logic right now: "I was 100% down with lynching BH... and then he claims jk" "I still don't like his posting before or after the claim " "I would love to flip him just to see" ...and then you vote me for starting a "bandwagon" on a player. Yeah ok. That totally makes sense. | ||
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On November 14 2012 12:16 Kickstart wrote: This is your post for voting debears. Your reasoning is fine and I get where you are coming from, I just view his actions differently so far. I think debears has been pressuring people and creating discussion. You fault him for hard pushing his read and creating an "over-kill" case, how is that scummy? As I said I would like other people input on how they read you and I do intend to further formulate my opinion based on whether others read you as town/scum/null My suspicions on him are far from just the "overkill" thing. I explicitly BOLD that debears isn't voting for his top scumread. That's pretty damn scummy. What about this do you view "differently?" Yet you ignore everything else and focus on one of the minor points in my case. Also still waiting for your response here: On November 14 2012 12:11 Hapahauli wrote: Your logic right now: "I was 100% down with lynching BH... and then he claims jk" "I still don't like his posting before or after the claim " "I would love to flip him just to see" ...and then you vote me for starting a "bandwagon" on a player. Yeah ok. That totally makes sense. | ||
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On November 14 2012 12:19 Kickstart wrote: I am down for flipping you and BH at this point. I am not really interesting in arguing with you about it - I find the fact that I was down for voting BH and you, then after him claiming jk just voting for you to be perfectly reasonable. Again I want other people to weigh in though. I don't. Your logic is completely disproportionate. You show every indication of wanting BH dead and are very eager about "flipping" him. You don't trust his claim, don't like his posts, don't like anything about him, then magically twist your vote on me because apparently you don't like a "bandwagon" I started. Yet you sympathize with my logic, yet disagree with it by ignoring all of my emphasized points. It. Makes. No. Sense. And I"m having a very difficult time figuring out if you're just dense about it or you have a mafia motive for all of this. | ||
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On November 14 2012 12:33 Kickstart wrote: You don't, I do - that is ok with me. Having a scum read on both you and BH and voting you over him is not as big of a leap as you are trying to make it sound. And I have not "magically twisted my vote" on you, I have given my view on you from the beginning, and unlike some - have voted once, and not by way of bandwagon. It is "magically twisted." Apparently you think I'm scummy because I've been pushing my suspicions too well. Yeah GL with that. That's awful. Im done with this shit | ||
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On November 14 2012 12:40 Blazinghand wrote: just ignore him for now he adds no value to our discourse Well it pisses me off when someone's case on me is "lol you're scumhunting too hard" /rant AAAAAAnnnnyway, whaddya think of him? Stupid townie newbie or scummy? | ||
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On November 14 2012 12:41 thrawn2112 wrote: my impression of dp's scum meta is based on what I read from his play in LC. He was wishy washy with his read on kushmasta while trying to mislynch him, not being stubborn as i'd come to expect Really? I was on his team in LC and he seemed super tunnel-y on kush. Though tbh, tunneling townies is part of his scum and town meta. Hence why I have a hard time reading him. | ||
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On November 14 2012 12:47 thrawn2112 wrote: it was all the midway through the game shit with boson, kush, and dp. dp was tunneling kush, but he seemed to not really care too much if kush actually got lynched as long as there was another townie to mislynch. town dp rides his targets into the ground for better or worse From what I remember from Mafia LVII, he tried to ride people into the ground there as well (as scum). I'll look into it, but I'm not all too convinced about the meta read. Still pretty null on DP for the record. He's a little less active than I'm used to seeing him, though he's probably still asleep. Also, I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on some other players... howabout debears? I think he's much summier than DP at the moment. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=37#726 | ||
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On November 14 2012 13:10 debears wrote: ugh catching up so far behind right now....let me know up front if you need questions and i'll get to them once i catch up Well this for starters debears: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=37#726 Anywho I'm going to bed - see your answer in the mornin | ||
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@ SnB Why are you voting the claimed JK? I understand that his claim makes little sense from a town perspective, but it makes even less sense from a scum perspective. Claiming JK in that circumstance is just about the worst thing you can do, not to mention just about the worst role to claim. If he's alive after a cycle or two, it's probably worth looking into him. But today, he's a pretty bad lynch target. Regarding DarthPunk He's very uncharacteristically inactive for his town play, but the same applies to his scum play. I hate having no solid opinion on him, but he's very null to me. His inactivity is not alignment indicative. He's been rather whiny as of late too, but that's pretty unusual for him as either alignment as well. Lynching him is flipping a coin, and I have stronger scumreads than him atm. Regarding Hopeless1der I haven't considered him as much. All I know is that he has a propensity for lurking regardless of alignment. However, I think he's town because of the attention he's getting from debears Regarding debears Pretty convinced he's scum at this point, especially after his last few posts: On November 14 2012 14:15 debears wrote: If you look at my posting before the iamp stuff, I was focused on Hopeless. However, Hopeless failed to post much after that, and he still has. I feel like his lecturing + lack of posting is much more scum indicative than iamp's posting, hence my vote on hopeless and not iamp 1 And about the one liners. It was the first 14-18 hours of d1. Not much to go off of for big cases, especially with thrawn, dp, hopeless, kickstart, and crossfire contributing minimally. Wow that's 5/13 players. Hey thats more than 1/3 of the game!!!!!!!!!!!! Amazing Hapa, why are you focusing me over the above stated 5 players?2 Also Hapa, why are you attacking easy targets: S&B, Kickstart, Me(after i go afk). 3 What happened to your iamp scum read hapa? 4 to I see that you override his in game play with meta on d1. Very interesting 1) I'll get to the iamperfection thing below. I think it's pretty clear that iamperfection was his top scumread. 2) His first instinct when defending his "lack of substance" is to point fingers at 5 other players to deflect attention from himself. I find this horrendously scummy. 3) Again, deflecting attention from himself by accusing me of going after "easy" targets. This isn't coherent given that he just accused me of not going after 5 easier targets pointed out above. In addition, this is just a further deflection, and he's trying to paint himself as this helpless, "easy" target when he is anything but so given the player-group we have. 4) I'd understand him questioning me if he had a scumread on me, but he doesn't. He just floats suspicion out there and since this post (~10 hours ago), he still hasn't called me scummy, pushed his opinion, or done just about anything in relation to my alignment. As for my read-change on iamperfection, we've played A LOT of games together. His meta is very distinctive between his town and scum play, and his actions so far point towards his town meta regardless of his 180. Don't trust me? Ask marv. Don't trust marv? Look at all the analysis about his meta in GSL III Mini. Now debears is really insistant that Hopeless is his top scumread instead of iamperfection when he was questioning iamperfection. This is full of shit. He votes Hopeless1der here for lurking/uselessness - typical early D1 case: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=15#282 Debears other substantial post on Hopeless1der is here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=23#447 Look how remarkably civil he is to Hopeless. There's no strong "scummy" rhetoric or anything suggesting that Hopeless is a strong scumread of his. He throws a bunch of soft-ball questions at Hopeless which shows to me that he's not all that committed to his read. Now look at his posts on Iamperfection: On November 14 2012 03:04 debears wrote: So marv 1) iamp changes from a town read (pretty convincing one early d1) 2) sheeps on a case when he changes 3) sheeps on a case based off of lack of activity/helpfulness in the first half of d1 with a 180 read That's not strong reasoning. Iamp knows it. That's why he goes out of his way to state the contradictiom. Explanations Town- idk why Scum - trying to look like scumhunter On November 14 2012 04:38 debears wrote: Iamp's switch on Z-Bo is alarming to me. Let me explain why Town read on Z-Bo + Show Spoiler + On November 13 2012 09:50 iamperfection wrote: zbos explained it in his post would have been very risky in my view. On November 13 2012 09:55 iamperfection wrote: its what i think so whatever. Zbos scum is gone put himself out there like that i dont think so. Alright, these two posts seem pretty strong saying that Z-Bo is townie. Note the word use "very risky for scum" and "scum wouldn't put themselves out there like that" On November 13 2012 10:33 iamperfection wrote: guys a town zbos could lie if he was blue He could be scum he could be vt. I'm inclined looking at the comment that he was just writing what he thought and that it was probably true. He just had a slip of the tongue so i'm actually inclined to think it was actually the truth. It didn't look like to me as a scum making a post in order to put a claim together. Boom i got two town reads already which you gonna do mafia?????????? Here he states outright that he has a town read on Z-Bo Note that his town read is a null tell to me. Suspicions of BH ----> Agreeing with BH Next, iamp becomes suspicious of BH + Show Spoiler + On November 13 2012 11:31 iamperfection wrote: so uh this guys is like not helping right now and i expect better from him since i hold him in high regards. i say we force his hand. ## Vote Blazinghand Especially since he made it obvious that he was here with his "lol" Note the timestamp. 30 minutes later, this comes out On November 14 2012 00:04 iamperfection wrote: LOL dont you dare talk down to me you little punk. You criticize me when YOU were the one being all terrible with your first couple of posts. Being all herp derp i don't have to contribute even though interesting things were happening at the time. Give me a break But that being said ## Unvote Your case on zbos reminds me more of your play from rockband more then the way you were being early on. Lokking at what zbos has posted especially this crap which bh pointed out If you look closely debears never said anything about being able to tell if marv is town or not from an anyltical standpoint he made it pretty clear that it was not the case and that he had said he was simply going to vote for him no matter what. Zbos totally misrepresents what is being said here and if he has the courage to throw a vote out for it you would have thought he would have read clearly what he was in fact voting for. This post here is also another pile of crap and its the iamperfection rule of whoever defends me is probably scum. If he cared at all to check in gsl III where i was scum which he played in lollololol i thrw around 2 strong town reads early on he should know this and the fact that he isnt willing to do any legwork in order to find out is more evidence not in his favor. This post is also extremly wishy washy on everything he said. I know i said early on that i thought the miller claim was more of a town tell but well i think zbos actions speak louder. so ## Vote zboson Note the two changes here 1) BH is suddenly town because of one case 30 minutes after iamp's original suspicion 2) Z-Bo is suddenly scum because of BH's case Note his poor reasoning. His first point is BH's reasoning. His second point is the "imperfection rule"...Really??????? Also, remember that it was and is the first half of d1 at this point. Why is he jumping on Z-Bo for two fucking posts? Why is he jumping on a case from a person whom he thought was suspicious 30 minutes prior? See how poor that reasoning is? When you switch from a town read to a scum read, you're reasoning should be pretty good. An apparent guilty conscience Ok. What does this line from his vote post on Z-Bo tell us about iamp? 1) He cares about how the town is viewing him 2) He doesn't believe his reasoning is that great for his vote -note the "well I think his actions speak louder". It's a weak statement. Not a strong one, (a strong one) which should be warranted when you change your read from town to scum in literally no time Point 1 is a null tell. Point 2 doesn't make any sense from a townie perspective. What are your guy's thoughts??? Look at how much stronger he's attacking iamperfection. He's much more convinced, he's much more direct, and he's really really pushing the iamperfection case. He mentions several times that he doesn't see any townie perspective from Iamperfection - rhetoric like this is completely absent in his dialogue with Hopeless. My vote is square on Debears. 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On November 15 2012 02:27 thrawn2112 wrote: I don't want to lynch debears today. Here is that post you linked me: You're voting for him because his vote is somewhere different than where his posts were focusing? I'm not convinced by this case and that worries me because I'd thought that a hapa case should be damn convincing. The only problem I have with debears is the large amount of one liners but they're balanced out with several posts of larger content, he asks questions, etc. I don't want to lynch debears, he has been active and eager to participate. Howabout the case I just posted? Convinced now? @ Marv On November 15 2012 02:09 marvellosity wrote: I really think DP is a bad lynch. Hopeless or debears. DP does not play uselessly as scum either. Not sold on Hopeless by any measure (mostly because of debears), but I agree we need to consolidate suspicions soon. Whaddy'a think of the debears case I just posted? | ||
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WOWOWOWOWOWOW Hapa is going after someone "scumhunting to hard' instead of not scumhunting, despite his list of rules. What's the #1 thing you look for Hapa? OH YEAH SCUMHUNTING DOH. 2) I pointed out 5 other players because it makes no sense for you to attack me for "scumhunting too hard" when we have 5 lurker-doodles who aren't contributing, at least up to that point 3) Check my meta on why i'm questioning you. I question people who vote me for dogshit reasons. Honestly, I think Hapa and Hopeless are scum I'm going after debears because he's NOT scum hunting. HE IS NOT VOTING FOR HIS TOP SCUMREAD He half-assed pushed Hopeless, put his vote on him, then tunneled the hell out of iamperfection without ever making a commitment. Where in the fuck do I even mention "scumhunting too hard?" That isn't the damn premise of my case. You're deflectionary, your voting makes no sense, and now you're voting for your attacker + lynch-bait. Die scum. | ||
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As for "buddying" BH - how the hell is that scummy, considering he's the claimed, un-counterclaimed JK. I really, really would love to know what you're on BH, and I"d love to have some | ||
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He's outwardly calling me scum, and not voting for me. AGAIN. | ||
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On November 15 2012 03:16 debears wrote: The premise of your case is that you ASSUME that iamp was my top scumread when my top scumread was afk. Why wouldn't I fucking push someone else while he's all afk? Hapa's way better than making a case off bad assumptions It's not an assumption. I outline really clearly why that's not the case. You half-assed tunneled Hopeless, softballed him questions, and somehow are calling him your top scumread. You tunneled the motherfuck out of iamperfection and explicitly stated you saw no town motivation in his actions. Yeah that's fucking town debears right there. | ||
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On November 15 2012 03:21 debears wrote: Yeah it is. lecturing brah is something I hate as town. Look at my last game ffs. your meta reads off on me. Or you don't have one. Idk which What is with this meta read shit? None of this has to do with meta. All of this has to do with you not being able to keep your story straight. Hell your two scumreads right now are a) the person attacking you and b) the top lynch-bait in the game. You made these two reads the second traction started forming on your lynch. Optimal scum strategy in this situation. Coincidence? Naw. | ||
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On November 15 2012 03:24 debears wrote: Hey guess who was first on hopeless <<<<<<This guy 1 Second, I find your reasons dogshit. You're a good town player. You aren't showing it right now. So I think you're scum 2 Hapa, you like using meta in your reads, yet you don't want to with me. What gives? Make a meta case that proves your point. 3 If you keep saying no, then that means you can't and you're wrong 1) So I'm going to give you townie points for being the first to jump on the easiest player to lynch in the game? Oh wait. 2) I'm not wrong. You're scum. 3) Rofl I have to use a meta read against you? GTFO. You really want a meta read? Your logic is terrible as scum. This is a prime example of it. I'm off to class, be back in a few hours Lynch debears. His recent posting says it all. | ||
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Why are there only 3 votes on debears? | ||
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On November 15 2012 04:06 debears wrote: Hey Hapa 1) I had a scumread on him before you started calling him an "easy player to lynch". You're full of shit. I saw him as scummy wayyyy early. 2) Yeah you must be. Cuz you refuse to show me one. Which means you don't have anything to back you up besides your lazy assumption of iamp being my top scumread 3) My logic is terrible? YOU'RE BETRAYING YOUR OWN RULES OF SCUMHUNTING, ESPECIALLY YOUR MOST IMPORTANT RULE This is yet another example of the rediculous shit that debears is posting. Absolutely none of this makes sense. 1) He's completely ignoring the question. Hopeless has a reputation of being an easy mislynch. Just because you jumped on him early and I didn't let you know BEFORE doesn't make it any less scummy 2) Debears has been screaming that my "assumption" is wrong when I clearly outlined my case and he NEVER addressed it! 3) I'm not betraying my rules - he's desperate to shove words into my mouth. Instead of analyzing my case, he picked my "overkill" point (which I have made in some of my other TOWN games btw, like Rockband Mini) and is obsessed with it. He still has not addressed WHY my assumption is bad, and has been screaming that I'm scum for god knows why. It is no coincidence that the second he became one of the vote candidates, he immediately started tunneling Hopeless (lynch-bait) and myself (his attacker). It's the best way not to reveal information to the thread when you're scared of getting lynched if you're scum. As for Hopeless, I believe he's town due to these debears shenanigans. Also, I believe that Hopeless is capable of doing what he's doing (lurking) as town. I don't believe for a second that debears's ridiculous defenses can come from town debears. | ||
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On November 15 2012 07:12 iamperfection wrote: Debars-Post your thought on every person in the game theres a good chance that your going to be lynched so no reason to not put your thoughts out there hapa before i put a ton of effort looking through you more closely what do you make of both me and bh weighing in positively on suspicions of you? You have not had as much thread presence that you usually have in my view and you said before that debars voting you was him claiming scum which i dont really buy and i thought it was really un hapa like for day 1? You were suspicious of me? Since when? I obviously disagree with your suspicions, but I don't think you have sinister motives behind it. Regarding BH - I have no idea what to make of it. On the one hand, I think his JK claim is completely non-sensical from a scum perspective. On the other hand, it's questionable from a town perspective as well, and if he's town, he's playing by far the worst game I've ever seen him play. His vote on me for "buddying" is just absolutely terrible. But I still just can't see him claiming JK as scum in his position. I think the JK claim makes him town, but every one of his actions makes me question it again and again. Regarding "presence" - I am really present when I'm around my computer, so I really don't know where you're getting this from. I'm in school in the mornings/afternoons and can't post much (weekdays only). At night though (5pm to 12pm) is when I get most of my posting done in all of my games. As for "debears claiming scum" - I'm very adamant about this. Look at his two main suspicions: an easy mislynch candidate, and his attacker (myself). Not to mention that his vote on me is a PURE OMGUS. This is the best way for scum not to give any information when they die (marv did this in GSL III, attacking me and drazak). Also, he only got suspicious of me and Hopeless the second he came under serious suspicion and became one of the leading candidates. Lastly, just read over my cases. His defenses are diversionary and deflectionary, which I described in detail here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=47#937 | ||
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On November 15 2012 06:29 Kickstart wrote: I'm here and been following the thread. All the cases against hopeless have been pretty solid and convincing so far and he has yet to give a good response, added to the fact that I already had an anti-town read on him before I think he is a good D1 lynch candidate. Hapa I feel has given several good and well reasoned posts recently spelling out his views on everyone, and just generally being pro-town. That being said, ##unvote ##vote: Hopeless1der On November 15 2012 06:45 Kickstart wrote: I don't have a scum read on debears like some others seem to have, so I don't feel comfortable casting a vote his way. Hapas case against him is unconvincing to me and debears' defence of his posts is how I felt about them to begin with. I also don't think him not mentioning BHs claim is a read one way or the other. Looking through the thread I think debears has made good reads and been on the right side of several issues thus far especially the snb wagon early on. I've heard "unconvincing" this and "unconvincing" that but never any rationale about why you don't agree with me on debears. You have to do more than tell me you don't agree - why don't you agree? | ||
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Hapahauli
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On November 15 2012 07:47 iamperfection wrote: ya i dont want to lynch hopeless. Although there is some silly association stuff that i dont personally like. But at least he is doing what you should if your town and under large pressure near lynch time. Is DP still your top scumread? What makes him scummier than debears at this point? It seems you largely agree with me on him but find DP scummier instead. | ||
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Hapahauli
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I WAS SUSPICIOUS OF HOPELESS FROM THE BEGINNING. HOLY SHIT.I wasn't under serious suspicion. Now, you're lying Ok this bit is fair, however: HE WAS IN NO WAY THE "EASY LYNCH" WHEN I FIRST HAD SUSPICIONS OF HIM. This is complete bullshit. This coming from the guy who accused me of going after "easy" targets in iamperfection and you. And oh look. I NEVER VOTED YOU HAPA CUZ YOU AREN'T GETTING LYNCHED TODAY. Now, you're making stuff up More lies The voting is a big deal because I still don't see how the hell you arrived at Hopeless being your top scumread. Hell you started all this "OMG OMG HOPELESS SCUM" thing the second I called you out for not pushing him and pushing iamperfection instead. Maybe at some point you'll actually respond to this instead of spouting your "bad assumption" nonsense about your "suspicion" on Hopeless: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=47#937 Hell you're entire read on me is OMGUS and that I'm somehow not following my principles. This is retarded and I can't imagine you'd ever come up with this shit as town. By all means show me how I'm not - the "overkill" read I've mentioned in some of my other town games as well. | ||
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Hapahauli
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Off the top of my head he is usually a bit more active in his town games and was a tad lurky in his scum game (can't draw conclusions from that though). I generally think his posts have been fewer in number but higher in quality. I'm inclined to think it's a stylistic change and not scummy given some of my previous conversations with him. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On November 15 2012 08:33 Blazinghand wrote: I'm not sure how debears questionable posting and his bombastic aggression towards you is indicative of him being scum. If I were trying to advise debears, a relatively (though not super) new player on who to attack, I'd not suggest you, and I'd certainly not say to do so the way he's done. His aggression against you isn't particularly townie but I don't get why you get scum vibes from it. Because it's completely illogical and in pure OMGUS. He started it the SECOND his lynch started gaining traction. Way too convenient. | ||
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On November 15 2012 08:36 iamperfection wrote: Well usually your pretty good at putting yourself in other peoples shoes hapa. If i was in his shoes and town and someone that coached me said i was scum i would be pretty suspicious of him. I would completely sympathize with debears if there was any rationality to his suspicion on me whatsoever. However there isn't any. Look through his filter and show me one coherent argument about why I'm suspicious. There isn't ANY. The only thing he ever brings up is this "Hapa is going against his rules", which is absolute bullshit. Not only have I used the read he referenced in my previous town games, but more importantly he's singling out one of the most minor points in my case against him as opposed to actually addressing it. Top it off with his defense post with the "easy lynches" crap and there's no way this guy flips town. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On November 15 2012 08:38 debears wrote: case on hapa incoming. So you guys know he's full of it Oooh boy I can't WAIT to read this.  | ||
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Hapahauli
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1) "Overkill" case: I've used this in my TOWN games. It is not about "scumhunting too hard" at all. Rockband Mini for reference: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=40#796 2) I'm scummy because my case isn't based around debears meta. ROFL. 3) Next post. No meta. Just an assumption that iamp was my top scumread because iamp had more content and that I didn't vote him, which he sees as scummy ROFL at no meta again. ROFL at not responding to my relevant case AGAIN. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=47#937 4) ISN'T THAT THE PROBLEM? HOPELESS HAS BEEN AROUND AND HAS ZERO CONTENT AGAIN, Hopeless is very capable of doing this as town. But to all the townies out there, please read debears "case." He thinks I"m scummy because I'm not using a fucking meta read on him. But here's a meta read - debears is active as town OR scum, but what's distinguishing is his logic. This is a prime example of the crazy illogical things he uses to put suspicion on people as scum. | ||
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On November 15 2012 08:52 strongandbig wrote: lol this would be a great scum buddy strat "hey db let's make terrrible terrible cases on each other and then push them really hard." "yes hapahauli let's do that then everyone will say "oh these cases are terrible the people they are attacking must be town"" Please be useful. Please. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On November 15 2012 08:55 strongandbig wrote: what do you think about my comments on hopeless's list post did you actually read hopeless's list post? if not go do it now and actually think for like thirty seconds about what he says in it. do the things he says in it actually make sense? Just read it - I think he makes sense. You really hate on his "associative tells", but I think they're pretty reasonable to make when you have strong feelings about a player's allignment. Then again I'm seethingly biased on this since I'm pretty convinced debears is scum I agree it doesn't have much in the way of content, but at the end of the day, i really think he's capable of doing this stuff as town. I also think debears is infinitely more scummy than Hopeless at this point. | ||
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Hapahauli
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Why the hell do you still have your vote on me? It's shit and you know it. Regarding Z-Boson It's interesting, and I'm interested in hearing what Z-Bo has to say about it. That being said, I still find debears much more scummy. 1) Z-Boson is matching his Newbie XXV scum-meta. I'm reallllly hesitant about using meta from that long-ago. It was his first game, and he's changed as a player a lot since then. There is a resemblance, but nothing lynchable. 2) Z-Boson is not making enough "non-serious" remarks. Again, this isn't a deviation that I consider significant enough from his town meta to be lynchable. 3) Z-Boson is more decisive. This point I like quite a bit. However, I've had some conversations with Z-Bo after recent newbie game where he mentioned he wanted to make a stylistic change to his game. He talked to me a lot about wanting to post less and what not. I think it's consistent. I'll see if I can find the skype logs. | ||
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Hapahauli
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Would you mind if I posted our skype convos? Hell am I allowed to post skype convos? | ||
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I'll have to think this one through a bit. | ||
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Hapahauli
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Hapa = Melvin Z-Bo = Paulo The above is a small snip of a skype convo we had a few weeks back. I obviously don't want to screenshot the whole thing (it goes on a while), but this should get the gist of it - Z-Bo really wanted to play a less-active style of play and was running it by me (I advised against it, but he was unconvinced throughout). This makes me think that this could be town Z-Bo. I know what Ver's guide says about the random 1-liners and what not but I really just disagree with it in this specific case. I think it's just a product of him wanting to post less. He could be scum, but at the end of the day, debears is much scummier to me. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On November 15 2012 09:49 Blazinghand wrote: Guys, DP just claimed scum. Get of your crap wagons and let's get rid of him, now. Where what why? | ||
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Hapahauli
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On November 15 2012 09:53 Clarity_nl wrote: I hope everyone is cool with me addressing DP's case after lynchtime, because it'll clog up the thread and we need to consolidate right about now. @ Hapa Aren't you saying the opposite of what the log suggests? In the log he says "I guess I should post less" and you tell him to post more anyway. Yet he hasn't. Yeah I spent most of the convo trying to convince him. He never budged. Want me to dig up the rest? | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On November 15 2012 09:51 marvellosity wrote: I could consolidate on to Crossfire, I guess. I don't think DP is scum. I don't think DP would make a case on Clarity if he's scum. There are enough outlying candidates for him to make a case on and vote on. I think it's more likely DP is being bad. I often find DP's reads as town somewhat ridiculous. Why do you want to consolidate on Crossfire when he's heading to modkill land? Also regarding DP, coming in with a random case on a player who hasn't been considered at all, especially considering we're not consolidated at all as town is pretty questionable. Dunno if it's enough to lynch him over debears though - these last minute things never end well. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On November 15 2012 09:58 iamperfection wrote: that all from the skype conversation? He doesn't really say much about changing his style fundamentally there just that he is going to post less and he failed to do so. I'll dig up the rest, brb. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On November 15 2012 09:58 iamperfection wrote: that all from the skype conversation? He doesn't really say much about changing his style fundamentally there just that he is going to post less and he failed to do so. Oh also, it doesn't really look like some "fundamental" change to me. He's just posting less, and his individual posts are longer. When you do that, the "fundamental" changes that marv points out (i.e. lack of jokes) are a pretty natural outcome. Like I can see him being scum here, but based on our conversations, I think he can do this as town. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On November 15 2012 10:04 Z-BosoN wrote: Allright let's consolidate. Hapa, this post by debears: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=53#1054 And his interaction with you really makes me think he is town. Do you remember our newbie game? I started finding him scum, and he disagreed heavily with my logic, and focused on me based on that (and my case was very similar to yours: weak weak reasoning for his suspicious actions). That post I cited makes me think the same. He seems like he genuinely thinks you as scum, and he really really disagrees with your logic. This is almost analogous, and I'd really not want to lynch him now. Regarding DP, I'm not sure about that marv. debears was getting hammered on, and one of the argumetns was "weak over-explanation" for a case. As scum, he could easily have felt that if he sheeped, he would look a lot more scummier, so he went ahead with an original case on someone with little suspicion on him. I'm going to go read the rest of his filter now. What is the reasoning on crossfire? A policy lynch? Isn't he just going to go get himself replaced? If I were to policy lynch, I'd go with thrawn, who hasn't done anything all game and is null in his posting. I think you're referencing debears... what... 2nd game? He's definitely changed since then and should know a thing or two about better logic. Because his logic in scum-games is absolutely turrrrrrible, and when I see stuff like "hapa is suspicious because he didn't post a meta read on me", I'm inclined to believe he's scum | ||
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Hapahauli
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I think it speaks more to his cluelessness/inactivity than anything else. But if there's anything I learned from newbie coaching, last minute emotional vote swing rarely ends well ever. | ||
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Hapahauli
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iamp - good stuff OK. I was not suggesting we switch on to clarity. What I was doing is making a case I was convinced of as I promised. Obviously we are not going to lynch him. Did you see a vote? ##unvote ##Vote DarthPunk | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On November 15 2012 10:29 DarthPunk wrote: This fucking game. How in the FLYING FUCK is that a scumslip?!?!?!?! It would be anti town to try and persuade the entire town to vote clarity this close to dead line. Also nigh impossible. I am being rational and realistic about my chances of voting my top scumread. Holy balls hapa. You kinda just admitted to making a case for the hell of it ya know? Making a case on clarity and then... "not suggesting we switch onto clarity?" Ok brah. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On November 15 2012 10:32 debears wrote: Oh and btw guys 30 minutes before the lynch and hopeless still not here last post of his That was 40 minutes ago. Long time to get home Some people actually take a while to get home ya know? I have an hour commute myself. If he doesn't show up, then there's something to talk about. But this logic debears... if it wasn't for DP, I'd be screaming for your lynch right now. | ||
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Giving reads =/= list w/out explanation | ||
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Yeah marv's right here - DP's being pretty townie going down. On November 15 2012 10:46 debears wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote Hopeless Plz for the love of god vote hopeless ppl Can we please lynch this guy? Please? ##Vote Debears | ||
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Hapahauli
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On November 15 2012 10:50 Z-BosoN wrote: Also, if anyone is thinking of voting me, it is becasue you are blindly sheeping marv. Fucking read my defense, FUCKING READ WHAT I SAID REGARDING MY META. FUCKING READ WHAT HAPA SAID. It's a case based SOLELY ON META DP is acting VERY differently then when he is scum gettingl ynched. I want to unvote him and vote for hopeless. Also, if I for some godly reason to get lynched. Here are my reads: Hapa: scum scum scum. Gonna go after him day 2 should I live. BH probably scum. I can't fathom his claim AT ALL. Kill him should he be alive in like, day 3. Rest of everybody I'm not sure. Marv is prob town, an arrogant fucking one who can't see the reasonable explanation I've given, but he's pretty much town. Yeah die. "Fucking read what Hapa said" "Hapa; scum scum scum" ##Unvote ##Vote Z-Boson | ||
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Such fucking shit | ||
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GG folks! I didn't expect to last too long in this game but certainly didn't see D1 going down as it did =/ At the end of the day, it was too hard to blend into an active town. In these situations, scum have to jump in and really shit up the town. Can't do that if you end up playing 1v10 for the majority of Day 1 | ||
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