On November 12 2012 20:31 Blazinghand wrote: My only hope this game is to roll Luigi and shoot Marv N1, only to find out he's Yoshi come morning, and scum shot the guy he saved, so my shot was the only shot, then I claim it and town lynches me and there's no blues left but town wins anyways via pure scumhunting!
I would love to play in a pure Goon/VT setup one day. I dislike blue roles in general. You are discouraged from being active early and in fact want to look a little scummy so that scum keep you around.
I dunno. I just think it would be fun to figure stuff out with nothing but discussion.
On November 12 2012 20:31 Blazinghand wrote: My only hope this game is to roll Luigi and shoot Marv N1, only to find out he's Yoshi come morning, and scum shot the guy he saved, so my shot was the only shot, then I claim it and town lynches me and there's no blues left but town wins anyways via pure scumhunting!
I would love to play in a pure Goon/VT setup one day. I dislike blue roles in general. You are discouraged from being active early and in fact want to look a little scummy so that scum keep you around.
I dunno. I just think it would be fun to figure stuff out with nothing but discussion.
As a blue I play just like a VT, and the blue stuff is just icing. It'd be such a give-away for scum if I were quiet in a game lol
The thing you're describing is "mountainous" setup and if you want I could host one one day. I find blue roles and the setup in general tend to add to the discussion, rather than take away from it. You'd probably just be best off avoiding [T] games and sticking to [N][M] games or [N] games.
Don't host a game just for me lol. But thanks for the advice with themed games. I was actually wary of joining TLVIII because of the weird set-up and that was part of the reason I /outed.
I just love playing VT I guess even though I've only had 2 VT games. ^_^
On November 12 2012 21:51 marvellosity wrote: Yeah, I need ma flips.
DP, NMM3 was an all-vanilla game basically. Actually scum had rber/framer, but all townies were VTs, so those roles were pointless.
yeah? How did It go? Giving scum useless roles is... Mean. Poor things panicking about being checked by a DT that doesn't exist. LOL
@BH that game you linked looked cool. I liked the flavour and factions but it seemed very complicated lol.
@ Draz I think I agree with BH in that I like flips to be revealed.
one thing I did enjoy is the instant majority lynch that was in GSL III. But I think you need everyone to be active for it to work properly. And it can be difficult to get the Europeans Amercians and South East asians in the thread at the same time.
On November 12 2012 21:55 drazak wrote: To be perfectly honest, I think no flip setups are balanced by who gets the two power roles and who the mafia are and who the town is. A good medic or a good dt can make the game for town, and good nks can make the game for scum, hell, good mislynches, and you can't blame someone for mislynching unless you think you're at one mafia and he doesn't die.
A game relying on blues to carry the game in order to be balanced is tiresome IMO. It may be balanced IRL though because of body language and tells of that nature however.
On November 13 2012 00:56 marvellosity wrote: phew, dodged a bullet
like that
You might not have MEANT it, but you still had to think it to make a coherent sentence.
Unless you mean you thought of each letter individually, and they just happened to come out in a coherent (albeit mean) sentence. Purely by happenstance, of course.
This is untrue. I say stuff before I think abou it all the time. Often as I hear my own words come out of my mouth I am thinking: DP, You're an idiot.
On November 13 2012 09:15 Clarity_nl wrote: I don't think anyone will be against millers claiming and a lurker lynch policy. If they are they should speak up. Otherwise we really don't need to mention it again.
On November 13 2012 09:15 Clarity_nl wrote: I don't think anyone will be against millers claiming and a lurker lynch policy. If they are they should speak up. Otherwise we really don't need to mention it again.
Oh hum I need something more controversial then.
Howabout the lynch DarthPunk policy? I have a hard time reading him and rolls scum 66% of the time when I'm in game with him. Sample size be damned!
The "random vote" gambit has been far overused. I'm not a fan.
I'd comment on your post, but I'm not even sure what you're talking about there.
random vote gambit is overused, yet pointless vote on DarthPunk is so much better, why?
Pretty sure It was a joke. But I am apparently so bad at telling the difference that Kush thinks I am autistic. If it is not a joke I'm going to straight up OMGUS Hapa.
On November 13 2012 09:41 Z-BosoN wrote: Hello, sirs. First of all I´d like to claim miller. There are two very viable options now, regarding my alignment on this game.
I am fakeclaiming as mafia. I am in fact a miller.
My claim here would be fairly risky as scum, and as town it makes more sense to claim so as to not waste detective checks on me, but of course this is WIFOM. I hope to show my alignment in this game through brilliant, stellar townie play, and hope town uses this factor and this factor alone when scouting my alignment. The only thing I hope to achieve with this claim is to not be checked by an eventual cop, as that check will be guaranteed to turn red.
That being said, I look forward to playing this game. Lot's of familiar faces around, and I am curious to hear more from people I haven't played yet.
Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out
HI ZB <3.
Yeah ZB will figure me out If I am scum, and Vice Versa. Hapa will figure marv out and marv will figure everyone out.
On November 13 2012 09:41 Z-BosoN wrote: Hello, sirs. First of all I´d like to claim miller. There are two very viable options now, regarding my alignment on this game.
I am fakeclaiming as mafia. I am in fact a miller.
My claim here would be fairly risky as scum, and as town it makes more sense to claim so as to not waste detective checks on me, but of course this is WIFOM. I hope to show my alignment in this game through brilliant, stellar townie play, and hope town uses this factor and this factor alone when scouting my alignment. The only thing I hope to achieve with this claim is to not be checked by an eventual cop, as that check will be guaranteed to turn red.
That being said, I look forward to playing this game. Lot's of familiar faces around, and I am curious to hear more from people I haven't played yet.
Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out
HI ZB <3.
Yeah ZB will figure me out If I am scum, and Vice Versa. Hapa will figure marv out and marv will figure everyone out.
GG scummers
But what if me, ZB, and marv are all scum o_O
Then Blazinghand, Debears and I will rip you all a new arsehole. <3
I'm inclined to be null on the miller claim. Just scum hunt as normal. ZB may or may not be scum which is the same thing that can be said for all of us.
On November 13 2012 09:41 Z-BosoN wrote: Hello, sirs. First of all I´d like to claim miller. There are two very viable options now, regarding my alignment on this game.
I am fakeclaiming as mafia. I am in fact a miller.
My claim here would be fairly risky as scum, and as town it makes more sense to claim so as to not waste detective checks on me, but of course this is WIFOM. I hope to show my alignment in this game through brilliant, stellar townie play, and hope town uses this factor and this factor alone when scouting my alignment. The only thing I hope to achieve with this claim is to not be checked by an eventual cop, as that check will be guaranteed to turn red.
That being said, I look forward to playing this game. Lot's of familiar faces around, and I am curious to hear more from people I haven't played yet.
Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out
HI ZB <3.
Yeah ZB will figure me out If I am scum, and Vice Versa. Hapa will figure marv out and marv will figure everyone out.
GG scummers
But what if me, ZB, and marv are all scum o_O
Oh, and ##unvote because I don't feel like continuing some half-assed thing early game.
And I asked before but no one seemed to respond/care:
Sooooo I'm fairly interested in hearing from players I don't know about. Particularly Crossfire and Kickstarter.
Btw, is Cross a smurf account? I noticed he's played a few recent games but don't know much about him.
Anyone anyone?
Who cares????? Even if it's a smurf, behavioral analysis triumphs
It's important - I have to know what to expect of him. There's a big difference between a veteran smurf and a guy who's played... 2 other games?
Player context is pretty damn important in "behavioral analysis" as you call it.
Except he is not a smurf so this discussion is pointless.
On November 13 2012 10:27 Clarity_nl wrote: @ Hapa
Again, Cheese's claim wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for some weird flavor stuff. The word "retard(ed)" seems to come up a lot in Darth's filter in that game. What makes you think it's scummy?
I say retarded a lot in every game. As both alignments.
On November 13 2012 10:24 Clarity_nl wrote: @ Hapa
I'll go find that post. Please comment on the votes on strongandbig, and what you think of his claim. You said it's not significant?
U sniped me =(
Which post are you referencing - Cheese's VT claim or the DP post I'm talking about in LVII? I can pull it up if you want (I know where it is after all).
Let me elaborate. He is voting you for thinking ZB's claim is null like many others do and because you find that not doing so is suspicious.
I am inclined to agree and find S&B's vote weak because
He singles you out from several whom have expressed similar sentiment.
He believes ZB and Perfection immediately which I can not empathise with and the stated reason for doing so is that ZB would have made a longer post despite ZB making a fairly lengthy post to begin with.
I can not find a way to share his view point as town. Therefore he is being retarded as town, scum or both. And I choose to pressure him with a vote. As I have come into the habit of not using the ever impotent 'FoS'.
On November 13 2012 10:27 Clarity_nl wrote: @ Hapa
Again, Cheese's claim wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for some weird flavor stuff. The word "retard(ed)" seems to come up a lot in Darth's filter in that game. What makes you think it's scummy?
I say retarded a lot in every game. As both alignments.
Yes, but the similarity to LVII is very uncanny.
The scenario is the same - a player makes an early game vote on me, and you immediately turn around and call it "retarded."
You didn't even describe how SnB's post made him scummy - you just voted him for a "retarded" vote and nothing else. What makes SnB's vote scummy?
On November 13 2012 10:33 iamperfection wrote: guys a town zbos could lie if he was blue
He could be scum
he could be vt.
I'm inclined looking at the comment that he was just writing what he thought and that it was probably true. He just had a slip of the tongue so i'm actually inclined to think it was actually the truth. It didn't look like to me as a scum making a post in order to put a claim together. Boom i got two town reads already which you gonna do mafia??????????
What's your second read dawg?
zbps broski read the thread dog.
I honestly can't find it. Town read on Z-Bo acknowledged, but I can't find town read #2 unless your unvote of me is a town read.
I think he may have been talking about S&B? regardless telling something to read the thread requirse the same effort as just answering them and is a great deal less helpful. So quit being unhelpful and just answer the questions.
On November 13 2012 10:44 marvellosity wrote: you can't active lurk in a game that's less than 2 hours old, numbnuts.
If anyone's 'active lurking' it's me. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Don't shut people down who are obviously trying their best to scum hunt and contribute. You are only going to discourage those things. Or is that what you want?
On November 13 2012 10:53 Hopeless1der wrote: What good did that question do for town?
I'm trying to figure out wtf you are doing coming in out of nowhere and lecturing someone early d1. In fact, lecturing everyone for their scumhunting.
What have you done?
##Unvote ##Vote Hopeless1der
DP calls out marv because multiple people were actively lurking and you singling out clarity was unfair. I was also lurking, and DP implies you were "trying your hardest", whereas you have said:
On November 13 2012 10:48 debears wrote:
On November 13 2012 10:46 Hopeless1der wrote: I think debears is just mucking up the thread hard, but that's apparently just what he does? pretty much what marv said again for myself on the active lurking.
Eh. It's early d1. Give me about 10 more hours before the good stuff comes out.
And yeah guys didn't realize it's only 2 hours at this point....
And yeah marv that's why my vote is still on u!
Did we catch the scums yet? Did 10 hours pass when I wasnt looking?
^^^^^Can someone tell me if this is how hopeless is?
Hopeless lurks as both alignments. That has been my experience in the last two games in which I played with him.
On November 13 2012 11:20 Z-BosoN wrote: DP, that's the second time you've voted for him without saying why. This won't do.
What is the problem? It should be obvious. He is WIFOMING about his scum game after he claimed VT. Which He CLAIMS was an accident. But the 'realisation' that he claimed 'accidentally' felt contrived and fake.
His entire demeanour feels contrived and fake to be honest.
On November 13 2012 11:37 iamperfection wrote: Whats everybody think of bh he is like a very good player when he is town from what i saw and here he really hasent done anything despite being here tell me what you guys think.
Give him a chance. He is one of those guys I would 100% never lynch day one because the benefits of him being town vastly out weigh the risks of him being scum.
From what I have heard around the grapevine however he is fairly easy to read as scum so we should be fine to take a look at him later on in the game.
On November 13 2012 11:37 iamperfection wrote: Whats everybody think of bh he is like a very good player when he is town from what i saw and here he really hasent done anything despite being here tell me what you guys think.
Give him a chance. He is one of those guys I would 100% never lynch day one because the benefits of him being town vastly out weigh the risks of him being scum.
From what I have heard around the grapevine however he is fairly easy to read as scum so we should be fine to take a look at him later on in the game.
you kidding? I'd lynch him day 1 in a heartbeat if I thought he was scum.
Well. That is fine. But I am not going to lynch him day one when he is a very good town player and the only case against him so far is that he is lurking.
On November 13 2012 11:37 iamperfection wrote: Whats everybody think of bh he is like a very good player when he is town from what i saw and here he really hasent done anything despite being here tell me what you guys think.
Give him a chance. He is one of those guys I would 100% never lynch day one because the benefits of him being town vastly out weigh the risks of him being scum.
From what I have heard around the grapevine however he is fairly easy to read as scum so we should be fine to take a look at him later on in the game.
you kidding? I'd lynch him day 1 in a heartbeat if I thought he was scum.
Well. That is fine. But I am not going to lynch him day one when he is a very good town player and the only case against him so far is that he is lurking.
The night (or day in terms of our game i guess!) is young, I wouldn't call anyone a lurker just yet. But I agree with marv that people who give off scum vibes should get the vote and find it odd that you are basically stating that you wouldn't vote for him no matter what ;o.
Yep. I would not. I would not vote day one for Hapa or marv either. Unless there was something super obvious I would not vote for them. But I do not think that would happen because they are all good players and that is why I respect them I suppose.
I am just throwing my vote around trying to see what's up. I think I explained both my votes on him adequately maybe you disagree with the reasons and that is fine.
The reason I unvoted S&B the first time was that I voted for Clarity for what I perceived to be an easy jump onto an easy wagon. He gave his explanation, I unvoted and then I re-voted S&B.
I cannot find the townie reasoning behind several things S&B has posted thus far. I cannot reconcile using WIFOM about his scum game as townie behaviour and I do not buy the too scummy to be scum shit.
I am far from certain about him. But if he is town I want him to shape up. I don;t like using FoS's anymore so a vote it is.
About the thing that ZB thought about scum implying they are town. That is actually what he thinks. He has said it a couple of times before. He actually uses it to catch me as scum apparently. It doesn't really effect your case that much. But I do know that this is one of his genuine scumhunting tools as town.
On November 13 2012 16:43 Blazinghand wrote: sorry you must be hard of hearing
your vote on S&B right now is bad
Is the reason for that his play is too 'risky' or too 'scummy' to be scum play? Because that is what I got from waht thrawn says and you just agreed with it.
If that is the case then I'm not buying what you are selling.
On November 13 2012 16:43 Blazinghand wrote: sorry you must be hard of hearing
your vote on S&B right now is bad
Is the reason for that his play is too 'risky' or too 'scummy' to be scum play? Because that is what I got from waht thrawn says and you just agreed with it.
If that is the case then I'm not buying what you are selling.
there's no such thing as too scummy for scum play
Ok then can you explain to me why only idiots and scum are voting for S&B. Cause I can't see it.
On November 13 2012 16:43 Blazinghand wrote: sorry you must be hard of hearing
your vote on S&B right now is bad
Is the reason for that his play is too 'risky' or too 'scummy' to be scum play? Because that is what I got from waht thrawn says and you just agreed with it.
If that is the case then I'm not buying what you are selling.
there's no such thing as too scummy for scum play
Ok then can you explain to me why only idiots and scum are voting for S&B. Cause I can't see it.
cause he's town. it's not my job to defend the man, just to point out the scum on his wagon. read his filter and tell me that's scum S&B seriously dude
So it's meta? Well I have only played scum with him so I wouldn't know.
On November 13 2012 17:03 Blazinghand wrote: DP seems unusually butthurt
yeah I went there
I've been sitting on that joke for so long
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
BTW What is a Begger man Mr. Caos?
That was breadcrumbing a night check. I believe I was a watcher that game, and it was a reference to a spy novel by john le carre. I got back no results so I crumbed it as Beggar man, who WAS NOT the mole in Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy.
Finally. That has bugged me since forever. It was the weirdest thing and I just couldn't figure it out.
On November 13 2012 16:43 Blazinghand wrote: sorry you must be hard of hearing
your vote on S&B right now is bad
Is the reason for that his play is too 'risky' or too 'scummy' to be scum play? Because that is what I got from waht thrawn says and you just agreed with it.
If that is the case then I'm not buying what you are selling.
there's no such thing as too scummy for scum play
Ok then can you explain to me why only idiots and scum are voting for S&B. Cause I can't see it.
cause he's town. it's not my job to defend the man, just to point out the scum on his wagon. read his filter and tell me that's scum S&B seriously dude
So it's meta? Well I have only played scum with him so I wouldn't know.
I have no further comments on S&B as long as your only comments on my case on ZB are peripheral to whether or not you agree with it. And really, the S&B wagon is irrelevant and won't roll across the line because we're lynching ZB today. S&B isn't scum.
On November 14 2012 07:44 Blazinghand wrote: Well, I was hoping it wouldn't come to this, but if wishes were wings, etc.
Man, there's few things I hate like arguing about my own meta, but several people have talked about it, at least in passing, so I'm dispelling the meta myth right now. I would have liked someone else to do it, but you all are too lazy to actually back up your meta statements so I have to do it myself. It'd be really nice if one of you could verify it for yourself because a dude talking about his own meta doesn't usually go well.
Here are my scum games. There might be one or two I'm missing, but these are the ones I remember:
If you take a look at all these games, even Emergency Mini Mafia, what people are attributing to my "bad scum meta" this game are not present at all. As scum I try to play like town-- posting big cases and interacting with people a lot. Where I fail is that as scum, I'm typically overly diplomatic and temperamentally less aggressive. This game is nothing like any of my scum games.
Yeah it's rather old but the point is I don't always play perfectly. Sometimes, yes, I'm making smaller posts and my cases aren't perfect. I've been mislynched for playing to my "scum meta" when in fact I just sometimes play differently as town. I'm not making the same mistake I made in Storm Mafia-- not defending myself zealously and claiming at the appropriate time.
I'm the Jailkeeper. My crumb is in the post where I talk about my large penis and how it could work as a "pad" (link)-- for pad-lock, lock, locked up, jail, jailkeeper. Admittedly, role crumbs aren't much supporting evidence, but lynching a claimed blue D1 is amazingly bad play. It's possible there's no scum roleblocker which means my power can still be of use to us.
You all have plenty of time to unvote me and vote Z-B before the day ends.
I'm back by the way and catching Up with the thread. So far Clarity's case seems somewhat reasonable. It's wrong of course but I can't fault him for it. Playing in two games is not somethign I would have done but kier asked me to join up and I could not refuse
I am prioritising my other game as I feel it would be unfair to the players in ACME if I ditched them for the newer game. I don't have as much time to spend on this game as I would like right now but Hopefully my other game will be over soon and I can Be as active in this game as I would like.
Well. I better keep reading the thread. See you all soon.
On November 14 2012 10:18 Hapahauli wrote: While you're prioritizing the other game - any thoughts on recent suspicions? What are your thoughts on debears while you're at it?
I am loathe to make reads when I am not paying as much attention as I should. I am going out for lunch and when I get back I should be able to have a look through his filter.
On November 14 2012 11:21 thrawn2112 wrote: His last voting action was an unvote, and the next 8 posts contain mainly fluff and jokes, not much information that's pertinent to the thread.
The fact that he hasn't taken a position is worrying-- but the joking and fluff are characteristic of his play. See NMMXXVIII
That game is one of the specific ones I'm thinking of in regards to dp's town play. He stays on his targets till he gets a flip, he is sorta.. aggressive.. with his language, especially when people are disagreeing with him. This game he's made extremely questionable votes while not pushing his reads. Town dp reads as the most convicted guy ever and that's not what i'm seeing this game.[/QUOTE]
The reason I don't sound convicted is that I literally have no convictions whatsoever right now. I am barely keeping up with the game. I am spending obscene amounts of time reading filters in my other game.
Once I have some clue as to the state of the game. I will be busting peoples balls and generally aggressive as per usual.
Do you think as scum I couldn't fake some contributions by now? and get all up in your faces about it. The reason I am not is because I care about being right and I have not put enough thought nor analysed enough information to be right about much at all.
My strongest read so far was a town read on BH when he was under pressure. But then he claimed JK so I didn;t need to defend him as I was planning to.
Like. What you are saying is reasonable. But playing twow games is kicking my arse and I just don;t have the time to play as well as I would like to.
On November 14 2012 12:37 Blazinghand wrote: thawn so do you have a game in mind as an example of DP's scum meta? Since you and marv aree disagreeinvw
my impression of dp's scum meta is based on what I read from his play in LC. He was wishy washy with his read on kushmasta while trying to mislynch him, not being stubborn as i'd come to expect
Really? I was on his team in LC and he seemed super tunnel-y on kush. Though tbh, tunneling townies is part of his scum and town meta. Hence why I have a hard time reading him.
it was all the midway through the game shit with boson, kush, and dp. dp was tunneling kush, but he seemed to not really care too much if kush actually got lynched as long as there was another townie to mislynch. town dp rides his targets into the ground for better or worse
From what I remember from Mafia LVII, he tried to ride people into the ground there as well (as scum). I'll look into it, but I'm not all too convinced about the meta read. Still pretty null on DP for the record. He's a little less active than I'm used to seeing him, though he's probably still asleep.
On November 14 2012 13:31 Blazinghand wrote: Thrawn is more right than he's wrong. More stalling, excuses, and mentioning other games in progress from DP.
##unvote ##vote: Darthpunk
Ugh. your not wrong. I should not have joined 2 games at once. Sorry town.
On November 14 2012 14:17 DarthPunk wrote: You know I could make some half arse case and tunnel some bad townie really easily and then probably not get lynched right?
Now why am I not doing that? Because, as I have said. I have not had the time required to get reads that I am convinced are valuable to the thread.
I don;t want to just fake shit to keep myself alive.
Is that scummy or townie.
Yes I am playing badly. Yes I have excuses which are valid.
If you lynch me it is a mislynch. I feel I could genuinely contribute to the game when I have more time.
But I can understand where you are coming from also.
Please just ask why on earth I would play scum this way when I could easily tunnel some lynch bait.
DP have you read the thread fully yet? Even with a quick glance?
I have read the thread through once. But I usually am constantly re-reading through my mafia games. I have forgotten a heap.
SO it seems as if he case against me boils down to meta almost completely and yet my play this game conforms to neither my town nor my scum meta.
Let me tell you what I was doing today. I know people hate this kind of shit. But honestly FU all.
I am house sitting for my sister whilst she goes to Vietnam and Thailand for a month. She leaves tomorrow. So I had to pick up the keys and go over the care of her cats and dog.
Then my friend who I haven't seen for three years was here so I grabbed lunch with him. I had 4 hours in which I had time to not only post in two games, but do various chores before my friend and several others went out for dinner and drinks. I stayed out till now when it is almost 3am and then I get back completely wasted to post in this damn mafia thread with a bunch of idiots who want to mislynch me.
Yes you are idiots. The case is a meta case in which I am deviating from both my scum and my town meta. If I didn't care about being correct I could shit out some cases right now and most likely not get lynched.
I can make fucking excuses because they are true and I didn;t have the time to day to do the amount of reading I like to do in both games. So I prioritised the other game. Holy Shit. you know I need to read 4 end game filters in that game right?? And this game is progressing at a million miles an hour.
Literally I take 5 minutes to write my defence posts but it would take me hours to read enough to be comfortable pushing a lynch.
Because I give a fuck about being right in my reads. Holy shit. that is a town tell if I ever saw one.
I am drunk as fuck writing this post at 3 am when I should rightly be in bed because the best thing I can contribute right now.] is to try and prevent my mislynch.
Honestly. The meta case against me is complete bullshit because it is a shift of meta for both alignments.
Give me one more day to prove my self and to let me shape up. If I don;t you can lynch me.
On November 15 2012 01:04 Clarity_nl wrote: So what you're saying is you won't make cases because it requires effort? Dude you are making it so hard on me to not vote for you.
No it requires time I don;t have.
I am obviously making an effort. It is past 3 am I am drunk and all I want to do is go to sleep. But here I am trying to stop this mislynch.
Also. Fucking read what I write. Because the explanation is quite clear and you are twisting my words because you are scum or an idiot.
S&B fucking understands that this lynch is wrong TODAY. give me some time to get my shit together.
I am not going to fucking make a case or reads when I don;t have any and I DON'T HAVE THE TIME to make really solid correct ones.
On November 15 2012 01:01 DarthPunk wrote: SO it seems as if he case against me boils down to meta almost completely and yet my play this game conforms to neither my town nor my scum meta.
Let me tell you what I was doing today. I know people hate this kind of shit. But honestly FU all.
I am house sitting for my sister whilst she goes to Vietnam and Thailand for a month. She leaves tomorrow. So I had to pick up the keys and go over the care of her cats and dog.
Then my friend who I haven't seen for three years was here so I grabbed lunch with him. I had 4 hours in which I had time to not only post in two games, but do various chores before my friend and several others went out for dinner and drinks. I stayed out till now when it is almost 3am and then I get back completely wasted to post in this damn mafia thread with a bunch of idiots who want to mislynch me.
Yes you are idiots. The case is a meta case in which I am deviating from both my scum and my town meta. If I didn't care about being correct I could shit out some cases right now and most likely not get lynched.
I can make fucking excuses because they are true and I didn;t have the time to day to do the amount of reading I like to do in both games. So I prioritised the other game. Holy Shit. you know I need to read 4 end game filters in that game right?? And this game is progressing at a million miles an hour.
Literally I take 5 minutes to write my defence posts but it would take me hours to read enough to be comfortable pushing a lynch.
Because I give a fuck about being right in my reads. Holy shit. that is a town tell if I ever saw one.
I am drunk as fuck writing this post at 3 am when I should rightly be in bed because the best thing I can contribute right now.] is to try and prevent my mislynch.
Honestly. The meta case against me is complete bullshit because it is a shift of meta for both alignments.
Give me one more day to prove my self and to let me shape up. If I don;t you can lynch me.
Holy shit this is some bullshit.
Dont be cry baby about it prove your town by scum hunting. no one really gives a shit about your irl stuff. You are not scumhunting either do so or die at this point.
I want to win this game and if your town your not helping me win
That is so fucking fallacious. Lynching bad townies does not further your win condition. If you think it does you are fucking terrible.
I would appreciate if you go ahead and make a read. Irl busy? That's fine. Surely u must have some contribution to make
It's 3 am I am tired as fuck. You want me to spend the hours necessary to make an accurate read? It isn't going to happen.
how about this though.
S&B is probably town. He actually read and comprehended what I said and then does not want to lynch the easy lynch.
Not what S&B would do as scum because he hates doing anything anything to jeopardise easy townie lynches as scum.
How do I know this? I played scum with him and he went ape shit when we almost derailed an easy mislynch.
Blazinghand should not be lynched. He is a claimed JK it is insane to lynch him today.
Clarity Is a gut scum read. I couldn't tell you exactly why. but something is off. I plan to look through clarities filter when I get up.
Hapa is a town read at this point. as is debears. and I won't fucking vote debears today even if he is my direct counter wagon so put that in your pipe and smoke it
If I had to vote right now I would be voting for clarity. But this has not been backed up with the appropriate amount of analysis which is why I was loathe to say shit like this in the first place.
On November 15 2012 01:16 Clarity_nl wrote: Marv you're gonna have to tell me what this quiz thing was, or maybe refer me to where you did it in another game? I'm intrigued.
@ Darth You're not getting lynched today, if you had read the thread you would know this.
I have read the thread. Anything is possible. And I am an easy mislynch. For good reason. Doesn;t stop it being a mislynch though
On November 15 2012 01:21 marvellosity wrote: why are Hapa and debears town reads, DP?
Meta. And gut feeling. You are not going to find anything more solid than that I am afraid. I am not as informed as I would like to be and I am only giving these reads out to shut you all up.
This is the whole reason I didn't want to really make a read. I am giving you the shit I use privately before I bring anything to the thread. My mental notes if you will. I have them every game and they dictate my workload in terms of reading usually. But as everyone is having a conniption about it that is all you get I am afraid.
Call the reads in that post my first impressions if you will which is the very simplistic reads I get from my first read of the thread. Usually I go back through and piece more shit together. But as I said I haven;t had time and I want to go to sleep so I will do that now.
Hey. I am back. I went to sleep past 3am and am hungover as shit. I am not whining. It is an explanation of where I have been since I last posted. Sleeping. I am going to dive some filters and make a case.
OK. Just went over thrawns filter. HIs case on me has solid reasoning and meta analysis. He takes similar positions to me on both debears and BH.
I think thrawn is town. His filter in this game has more solid cases early than his town play in ACME. and I don't see first time scum thrawn being LESS productive.
Onwards.
I think Clarity is scum.
This vote of his onto the S&B wagon felt off.
On November 13 2012 10:16 Clarity_nl wrote: Bandwagon time! Please answer why you claimed.
##Vote Strongandbig
When I questioned him on such a questionable vote (ironic isn't it) He says he has already explained his reasoning two post previously
On November 13 2012 10:02 strongandbig wrote: also fuck you zboson i wanted to fakeclaim miller as vt since then people couldn't say "oh he's fakeclaiming miller must mean he's scum" when i fakeclaim miller as scum
but now if i did that people would be like "two millers what are the odds" and then probably lynch you so no good on that one
^^^^^^claim
I missed that.
strongandbig why did you claim VT, please explain your reasoning.
That is hardly a solid reason to vote for someone and when questioned I would expect him to further clarify as I did with both votes.
Ok now let's look at some weirdness With clarity. Clarity seems to hold strong convictions and States he will not be swayed until he achieves satisfaction.
On November 13 2012 16:48 Blazinghand wrote: anyone not voting for their top scumread needs to vote for their top scumread instead
Right now, he's it. Maybe he's a bit too obvious and maybe the fact that no one has defended him, even a little bit, makes it less likely, but he's still it. Just because I said my vote pressures him, does not mean that is solely what my vote it for. It's staying there until he explains himself clearly, luckily we have plenty of time.
S&B does not explain any further. Blazinghand puts pressure on those who still have votes on S&B and then we get this
On November 13 2012 17:25 Clarity_nl wrote: I understand your reasoning much better now, thanks. As for his meta, it seems he doesn't play like he's been playing this game as either alignment. Here's his Town play.
##unvote
So he unvotes someone who was his top scum read, whom he was not going to unvote unless S&B explained himself. And then after some pressure from BH he unvotes sheeping BH's reasoning.
On November 14 2012 04:17 Clarity_nl wrote: Darthpunk... maybe. Best I've got, working on a case right now but not liking how it's turning out.
Yeah.... making a case on Darth isn't working, which I think in itself says a lot.
I am surprised more of you didn;t go WTF when you read this I think only HAPA did. But this demonstrates a scum mindset.
With me. I start many cases feel that they aren't working and move on maybe saving some things for later.
The way he express how he went about his case on me Is how scum feel when making cases. It doesn;t really work but you push through and try to find things that stick.
To me this is a quite revealing mindset possessed by clarity.
On November 13 2012 16:52 Clarity_nl wrote: If you guys somehow haven't noticed. Take a look at Darth's filter. It's basically a bunch of one-liners, jokes, the occasional null read on others. It doesn't actually help town.
The only things that stand out in his filter are him voting for SnB with the comment "so retarded" (which apparantly is a null tell, judging by his previous games, he throws the word around a lot) After I jump on the SnB wagon, he votes for me without explaining. Later on he quotes his own post of him voting for me and explains why, after I explain my reasoning he quickly unvotes me and hops back on SnB.
So his read on me is that I haven't been pro town and made some questionable votes with little reasoning. The problem is so did he and he refused to give further reasoning on his votes which I did do both prompted and unprompted and which he knew of when he made this case.
I am not accusing him of being scum for doing similar things as me. I am asccusing him because he finds the things we both did scummy which does not seem to be a cohesive mindset.
On November 13 2012 15:56 DarthPunk wrote: I am just throwing my vote around trying to see what's up. I think I explained both my votes on him adequately maybe you disagree with the reasons and that is fine.
The reason I unvoted S&B the first time was that I voted for Clarity for what I perceived to be an easy jump onto an easy wagon. He gave his explanation, I unvoted and then I re-voted S&B.
I cannot find the townie reasoning behind several things S&B has posted thus far. I cannot reconcile using WIFOM about his scum game as townie behaviour and I do not buy the too scummy to be scum shit.
I am far from certain about him. But if he is town I want him to shape up. I don;t like using FoS's anymore so a vote it is.
@blazinghand. Guess I am bad.
He then claims he's just "throwing his vote around", but he doesn't ask questions or make comments about me or SnB.
On November 13 2012 16:50 DarthPunk wrote: Eh. I wouldn;t say I had a particularly strong read on S&B.
##Unvote
Then why vote for him? Because if it was to pressure, why wouldn't he actually explain why he's voted this way or ask questions? You either vote to lynch or you vote to pressure. But Darth's vote was.... neither?
##Vote DarthPunk[/QUOTE]
I find his interpretations of my filter to be manipulative. My votes were obviously to pressure I explained as much. He even quotes my reasoning and then comes out with a conclusion to make his case that 'wasn't working'
I do not see any solid reason to then do what clarity did in follow up which was to push and tunnel me hard based on ACTIVITY which was barely mentioned at all originally.
This feels like the kind of case that is FORCED and made for the sake of making a case. Something that I refused to do because I want to get shit right. I don;t think clarity cares about being right. I think clarity would have forced a case on me regardless of what was found in my filter.
And THAT ladies and gents is freaking scummy.
after this case his contributions are fluff and one liners that he apparently hates.
he cruises along contributing NOTHING unless prompted by a direct question or pushing his case on me. Generally with a one liner containing no information.
He tunnels me for the rest of the cycle once again having his 'convictions' that are dropped to sheep marvs case. Without any real contributions from me in the thread without explaining why I am no longer being voted
On November 15 2012 09:09 Clarity_nl wrote: I feel I am at a disadvantage, not having a natural meta awareness about most people in this thread. I do try to read people's older games after I am done reading through their filter, but I just read their filter, which means their posts lose context.. somewhat.
That said, marv's case makes a lot of sense. I mean, he used the word propensity, how can I resist.
##Unvote ##Vote Z-BosoN
Also look at this post and note how he hints at his newbieness in the opening paragraph which is irrelevant to his Un-vote on me or his vote on ZB.
OK. I was not suggesting we switch on to clarity. What I was doing is making a case I was convinced of as I promised. Obviously we are not going to lynch him. Did you see a vote?
I don't care if clarity explained something scummy away. It speaks of his mindset and the excuse was weak.
@ Perfection. You are probably town based on my meta read on you. If you are not town I don;t think you could keep up the charade for long enough anyway.
@Everyone If you are voting for crossfire it is not because you are sure he is scum. It is because he was being bad. it's a coinflip.
@Blazinghand.
Explain to me how I just 'claimed' scum.
Marvs case on ZB is really good. There is a strong correlation between his play this game and his scum game.
The same sense of disconnect with the cases he is pushing.
On November 15 2012 10:14 Blazinghand wrote: no, the shenannnies are good, crossfire needs to be lynched
like, he's pulled some crap about posting a case he already had but look at his play this game
That post was not claiming scum.
Obviously he has been terrible but terrible scum or terrible town. CROSSFIRE would have been well aware that your jk claim was true or not if he was scum and you were telling the truth. I dont see him coming out of nowhere like that as scum.
On November 15 2012 10:20 DarthPunk wrote: holy shit this thread is moving fast.
OK. I was not suggesting we switch on to clarity. What I was doing is making a case I was convinced of as I promised. Obviously we are not going to lynch him. Did you see a vote?
I don't care if clarity explained something scummy away. It speaks of his mindset and the excuse was weak.
@ Perfection. You are probably town based on my meta read on you. If you are not town I don;t think you could keep up the charade for long enough anyway.
@Everyone If you are voting for crossfire it is not because you are sure he is scum. It is because he was being bad. it's a coinflip.
@Blazinghand.
Explain to me how I just 'claimed' scum.
Marvs case on ZB is really good. There is a strong correlation between his play this game and his scum game.
The same sense of disconnect with the cases he is pushing.
I would vote for him or hopeless
But I like the case on ZB better
##Vote: Z -Boson
so you made a case for shits and giggles?
NO. It was my strongest scum read. That everyone was asking for. You want me to fucking sheep onto the leading candidates would that make me more townie? seriously.
OK. I was not suggesting we switch on to clarity. What I was doing is making a case I was convinced of as I promised. Obviously we are not going to lynch him. Did you see a vote?
##unvote ##Vote DarthPunk
This fucking game. How in the FLYING FUCK is that a scumslip?!?!?!?!
It would be anti town to try and persuade the entire town to vote clarity this close to dead line. Also nigh impossible.
I am being rational and realistic about my chances of voting my top scumread. Holy balls hapa.
On November 15 2012 10:25 Hapahauli wrote: Holy scumslip DP
iamp - good stuff
OK. I was not suggesting we switch on to clarity. What I was doing is making a case I was convinced of as I promised. Obviously we are not going to lynch him. Did you see a vote?
##unvote ##Vote DarthPunk
This fucking game. How in the FLYING FUCK is that a scumslip?!?!?!?!
It would be anti town to try and persuade the entire town to vote clarity this close to dead line. Also nigh impossible.
I am being rational and realistic about my chances of voting my top scumread. Holy balls hapa.
If it's anti town to persuade town to lynch clarity, then why make a case on him?
case=persuasion
Because HE IS MY FUCKING SCUM READ THAT I SAID I WOULD BUILD A CASE ON BEFORE THE FUCKING LYNCH
On November 15 2012 10:34 iamperfection wrote: DP DO NOT RUN AWAY IF YOUR TOWN. Give reads on the people voting on you.
I just did.
more
How about this. I was probably not going to be lynched until two of the best town players I know who are very rarely wrong about scum reads lead the most retarded wagon in the world on me which is wrong.
So either they are worse than I thought. Can't read me at all or are scum.
Hapa is not playing the same as GSL he is playing worse. Hi scum game is townie though so be wary of that. But he is not giving the confident and often correct reads taht he usually gives as town.
He is starting up a stupid fucking wagon that he is usually wary of as town. Hapa is like the fucking divine presence of level headedness usually but this band wagon is not it.
BH I have never played with before. But he is reading scum into things that should not be read as scummy. SO he might just be worse than I thought.
Marv is actually fucking right although rightly confused but seems townie from genuinely wanting to figure shit out rather than leap onto a retarded wagon.
Also.
How much fucking conviction does BH have in his reads when I am so scummy but then he insta votes for a fucking Coin toss.
BH is scum. Because he doesn't give a fuck about the lynch as long as he lynches a townie.
On November 15 2012 10:46 Blazinghand wrote: ._. curse you DP for casting doubt into my heart. I'll just shoot you tonight with all my vigi bullets then
On November 15 2012 10:46 debears wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote Hopeless
Plz for the love of god vote hopeless ppl
Can we please lynch this guy? Please?
##Vote Debears
Scum. YOu just tried to form a band wagon on me for this very thing you are doing right now. You are fucking derailing the fucking lynch and there is no way in hell debears is going to be lynched. Also town hapa would never do this so iam now talking to Scum hapa whom I dislike.
On November 15 2012 10:50 Z-BosoN wrote: Also, if anyone is thinking of voting me, it is becasue you are blindly sheeping marv. Fucking read my defense, FUCKING READ WHAT I SAID REGARDING MY META. FUCKING READ WHAT HAPA SAID. It's a case based SOLELY ON META
DP is acting VERY differently then when he is scum gettingl ynched. I want to unvote him and vote for hopeless.
Also, if I for some godly reason to get lynched. Here are my reads:
Hapa: scum scum scum. Gonna go after him day 2 should I live.
BH probably scum. I can't fathom his claim AT ALL. Kill him should he be alive in like, day 3.
Rest of everybody I'm not sure. Marv is prob town, an arrogant fucking one who can't see the reasonable explanation I've given, but he's pretty much town.
On November 15 2012 10:55 Z-BosoN wrote: LYNCH HAPAHAULI.
LYNCH BLAZINGHAND. when he is alive day 3.
marv, hope you learn you are not the fucking god of mafia, and see that meta reads are only worth it if it isn't fucking obvious stylistic proven logical and pre-claimed reasons.
On November 15 2012 11:00 Blazinghand wrote: Please, marv, that was so 12 minutes ago
you will have to answer for it tomorrow.
I *saved* Z-B from the lynch. I have nothing to answer for but my own excellent D1 scumhunting and overall good play.
Trying to get as much town cred as possible from your bus hey.
you actually tthink that was a bus come on dude it happened in like 2 min and me and bh started and pushed for it give me a break
So it was very unlikely to succeed and then if either of them flipped they would have been at a comfortable distace. But It worked. And they had to do something because the way which they bandwagoned me was super fucking suspicious and would have damned them both when I flipped town
On November 15 2012 10:50 Z-BosoN wrote: Also, if anyone is thinking of voting me, it is becasue you are blindly sheeping marv. Fucking read my defense, FUCKING READ WHAT I SAID REGARDING MY META. FUCKING READ WHAT HAPA SAID. It's a case based SOLELY ON META
DP is acting VERY differently then when he is scum gettingl ynched. I want to unvote him and vote for hopeless.
Also, if I for some godly reason to get lynched. Here are my reads:
Hapa: scum scum scum. Gonna go after him day 2 should I live.
BH probably scum. I can't fathom his claim AT ALL. Kill him should he be alive in like, day 3.
Rest of everybody I'm not sure. Marv is prob town, an arrogant fucking one who can't see the reasonable explanation I've given, but he's pretty much town.
Yeah die.
"Fucking read what Hapa said"
"Hapa; scum scum scum"
##Unvote ##Vote Z-Boson
Does this semi-confirm either of these two? Hapa thought he was safe at this point, and was most likely trying to push a mislynch
On November 15 2012 11:15 debears wrote: scoreboard update
Z-Bo 1 Debears 1
Nah man, I figured he was scum due to totally different reasons than yours. I just didn't think we would have lynched him based on my arguments alone, and I didn't want to get in a verbal fight with him (he's so fucking difficult to deal with). His interaction with you I'd say was fairly regular.
Let us compare dicks when the game is over though, and right now REJOICE!!!!
Town fucking awesome. I fucking love you guys. I fucking fucking love you guys. YOU lynched hapa. And now the information we get is OUTSTANDING. Scum is almost 100% in my wagon (maaaaybe except BH, but nah, not voting him tomorrow). I'm obvious not fucking scum, my reads were obviously my last will.
Fuck yea.
You are far from confiremd ZB and your last 'will' was a WIFOM bomb if I ever saw it.
On November 15 2012 11:28 Z-BosoN wrote: Dp, are you high on drugs? Seriously you find it perfectly reasonable that I was thinking that town would unvote me and vote for some like hapahauli without a fucking case. Right. Finish your shrooms and look at the real scum who are on my wagon.
Oh you mean Blazing Hand? Don't worry we will lynch him next. then you. all good buddy.
On November 15 2012 11:37 Clarity_nl wrote: It would be rather odd for scum to jump on hapa that late, yes. But confirmed? No.
You are both idiots.
I was being pushed by fucking hapa. He was one of the players to initiate the lynch on me and was fine with the way it was going until marv and others realised I was townie in my death throwes.
At the end I was like HAPA is scum. Also I was the one who fucking switched at the last minute when the votes were tied. I made that lynch a certainty at the last possible second before deadline. The ACTUAL MINUTE OF THE DEADLINE.
On November 15 2012 11:34 DarthPunk wrote: Also I am confirmed town. SO suck it, all of you.
I'm not really sure how you're confirmed town. I actually think it's quite the opposite. Please explain.
he was the hammer vote wasn't he?
Yeah but I don't think anyone on the Hapa wagon is confirmed town. Even looking at my own position, there's nothing confirmed about my town-ness. I think it makes little sense for a guy like DP or me to lynch Hapa if we were scum, but we are really the opposite of confirmed town. We're scummy players with mitigating circumstances.
I guess you wouldn't want confirmed townies would you BH?
On November 15 2012 11:37 Clarity_nl wrote: It would be rather odd for scum to jump on hapa that late, yes. But confirmed? No.
You are both idiots.
I was being pushed by fucking hapa. He was one of the players to initiate the lynch on me and was fine with the way it was going until marv and others realised I was townie in my death throwes.
At the end I was like HAPA is scum. Also I was the one who fucking switched at the last minute when the votes were tied. I made that lynch a certainty at the last possible second before deadline. The ACTUAL MINUTE OF THE DEADLINE.
That doesn't make you confirmed town, and you know it. Stop wasting our time and yours. I don't want to spend this night arguing with a townie so I'm gonna ignore you.
Not a confirmed town but you happily call me townie whilst decrying calling me town. You should work in advertising.
On November 15 2012 11:37 Clarity_nl wrote: It would be rather odd for scum to jump on hapa that late, yes. But confirmed? No.
You are both idiots.
I was being pushed by fucking hapa. He was one of the players to initiate the lynch on me and was fine with the way it was going until marv and others realised I was townie in my death throwes.
At the end I was like HAPA is scum. Also I was the one who fucking switched at the last minute when the votes were tied. I made that lynch a certainty at the last possible second before deadline. The ACTUAL MINUTE OF THE DEADLINE.
Why you so angry? We just lynched scum.
Cause I was almost mislynched and I didn't enjoy the view.
OK just got up. Hapa was super obvious scum at the end. there was no way to reconcile hapa's behaviour with his town play. While I might be highly suspicious of ZB I was sure of Hapa at that point.
I don't know if ZB is trying to imply that somehow I was being scummy by changing my reads when presented with new information. But that's what I did. I was positive I was going to get lynched and wanted to get my positions as soon to be confirmed town across.
For the record I am pretty sure ZB is scum.
He WIFOM bombed at the end, and they read as such rather than genuine attempts at catching scum.
Hapa tried to derail the ZB lynch and outed himself in the process.
This is on top of the case by marv.
When the lynch was going down yesterday I became highly suspicious of ZB/BH and hapa.
On November 16 2012 06:28 DarthPunk wrote: OK just got up. Hapa was super obvious scum at the end. there was no way to reconcile hapa's behaviour with his town play. While I might be highly suspicious of ZB I was sure of Hapa at that point.
I don't know if ZB is trying to imply that somehow I was being scummy by changing my reads when presented with new information. But that's what I did. I was positive I was going to get lynched and wanted to get my positions as soon to be confirmed town across.
For the record I am pretty sure ZB is scum.
He WIFOM bombed at the end, and they read as such rather than genuine attempts at catching scum.
Hapa tried to derail the ZB lynch and outed himself in the process.
This is on top of the case by marv.
When the lynch was going down yesterday I became highly suspicious of ZB/BH and hapa.
I'm not trying to imply anything. I want to certify my read on you. Why was Hapahauli super-obvious scum at the end? What made him change your mind?
I didn't change my mind. I was already suspicious of hapa. Read my death posts. Then he tried to derail the lynch far too late after trying to lynch me for making a case that wasn't on a leading candidate. He wanted to Vote for DEBEARS of all people when there was no way he was getting lynched.
On November 16 2012 06:28 DarthPunk wrote: OK just got up. Hapa was super obvious scum at the end. there was no way to reconcile hapa's behaviour with his town play. While I might be highly suspicious of ZB I was sure of Hapa at that point.
I don't know if ZB is trying to imply that somehow I was being scummy by changing my reads when presented with new information. But that's what I did. I was positive I was going to get lynched and wanted to get my positions as soon to be confirmed town across.
For the record I am pretty sure ZB is scum.
He WIFOM bombed at the end, and they read as such rather than genuine attempts at catching scum.
Hapa tried to derail the ZB lynch and outed himself in the process.
This is on top of the case by marv.
When the lynch was going down yesterday I became highly suspicious of ZB/BH and hapa.
I'm not trying to imply anything. I want to certify my read on you. Why was Hapahauli super-obvious scum at the end? What made him change your mind?
I didn't change my mind. I was already suspicious of hapa. Read my death posts. Then he tried to derail the lynch far too late after trying to lynch me for making a case that wasn't on a leading candidate. He wanted to Vote for DEBEARS of all people when there was no way he was getting lynched.
There was no way town Hapa would play that way.
Yes, and Hopeless wanted to do the same thing. As a matter of fact, he did. Does that make you suspicious of him also?
Not necessarily because I don't expect the same things out of hopeless that I expect out of Hapa. That being said I will read his filter again.
On November 16 2012 10:32 marvellosity wrote: I am clearly town and a bigger asset (sorry DP)
Not offended at all it is true. But you are not clearly town so stop putting that Idea into peoples heads right now.
Also. Blazing hand would be fucking insane to fake claim JK day 1 as scum or as fucking SK. he is JK. So Marv as much as you would like to believe he is scum he is not and you are going to have to deal with that and use your 'assets' elsewhere.
On November 16 2012 10:32 marvellosity wrote: I am clearly town and a bigger asset (sorry DP)
Not offended at all it is true. But you are not clearly town so stop putting that Idea into peoples heads right now.
Also. Blazing hand would be fucking insane to fake claim JK day 1 as scum or as fucking SK. he is JK. So Marv as much as you would like to believe he is scum he is not and you are going to have to deal with that and use your 'assets' elsewhere.
DP haven't u been saying BH is scum all day?
That was after he fake claimed twice and then recanted. Now he has reclaimed with a breadcrumb that is verifiable when I get my PM.
On November 16 2012 11:05 DarthPunk wrote: Sigh. Should have jailed marv. If I was Jailed and the Jailkeeper was Roleblocked. Would I still recieve my Roleblocked PM
If JK was roleblocked by a town roleblocker, yes. If JK was blocked by a scum roleblocker, no.
Well there is no way to verify BH's claim anymore. so that is shit.
On November 16 2012 13:02 Z-BosoN wrote: I´ve been a bit busy today, and will be so tomorrow as well. I´m down with a SnB lynch right now. Tomorrow I´m going to check thrawn´s filter (djodref can´t really do much at this point...) and see if I still think so, when I find time.
Anyways, checking BH is the stupidest shit you can do, whoever said that above. Odds that he is scum are really low right now. Like I said, just lynch the people on my wagon and youll do just fine. (was right about one of them already. Debears, update the scoreboard will you )
Also, to those of you who think I´m scum, you are out of your fucking mind. That´s about it.
##Vote SnB
How about you take your scummy self and fucking extrapolate on joining this bandwagon.
On November 16 2012 13:25 Djodref wrote: I want to lynch BH because he is not showing town behavior at all. Trolly and disruptive, fakeclaiming, backing off and claiming again. I understand it's unlikely to display such play as scum but it would be the same from a JK. I have to look again at S&B again though...
Anyway I don't see how we can loose this game now so I would almost expect the last scum to concede now.
we are not lynching blazing hand in the foreseeable future.
On November 16 2012 13:47 Z-BosoN wrote: DP, I know it's your wet dream to catch me as scum. But look at what you are suggesting.
1. I risked claiming miller and thus a potential counter-claim. 2. I pursued BH to the point he had to claim because I made good arguments, because scum are very insistent like that. 3. On my dying post, I told everyone to lynch hapahauli in day 2, you know, because I'm a scum who wants to help town. Then, in the night, I said crossfire, my other teammate, was the best lynch for today. 4. Hapahauli tried very very hard to defend his scum mate, even wanting to open up skype chat logs. Because that's what scum do right? Openly try to save their buddies. 5. I expected that town would sway from lynching me, someone with a marv case on him, to hapahauli, who hadn't been under any real threat at all in the game, with less than 10 min to go when I made this post:
On November 15 2012 10:55 Z-BosoN wrote: LYNCH HAPAHAULI.
LYNCH BLAZINGHAND. when he is alive day 3.
marv, hope you learn you are not the fucking god of mafia, and see that meta reads are only worth it if it isn't fucking obvious stylistic proven logical and pre-claimed reasons.
Just so I'd come out looking good.
All this makes perfect sense because... of meta. That's it. Not a single thing all game, just... meta.
And even in that regard, I've extensively covered that. Hapa felt like he needed to help, because it's something that I'd discussed with him and he would look bad if he didn't say anything about it. I even mentioned this before marv's case on me (I got sniped, but time difference should confirm I couldn't have possibly written all that in such little time.) so that means I'm self-aware of this meta thing, and decided to play like that anyway.
On November 15 2012 08:30 Z-BosoN wrote: Sigh... please make it easy to respond to. I´m not scum and I´m pretty fed-up with having to defend myself every single game being town.
"wahh i'm pretty fed up with having to play forum mafia whenever i play forum mafia"
For what it's worth this is like the scummiest thing ZB has done this game
It's cause you don't know the context. My main problem as town is that people think I'm scum every. single. time. Every past game I've played on, I've been receiving shit based on misinterpretations, things I've said that were confusing, and mismatched other things I have said. I got VERY frustrated because I was playing mafia and I spent like 70% trying to not get lynched instead of scumhunting.
So I've decided to change my playing style a bit, so the general populace stops twisting my unclear words. Hapa pretty much nailed it, as it was a topic I've discussed with him quite a lot:
On November 15 2012 08:32 Hapahauli wrote: Uhhh Z-Boson huh? That's interesting. He kinda peaced out of the thread after dropping his Hopeless case.
Off the top of my head he is usually a bit more active in his town games and was a tad lurky in his scum game (can't draw conclusions from that though). I generally think his posts have been fewer in number but higher in quality. I'm inclined to think it's a stylistic change and not scummy given some of my previous conversations with him.
And now I've been trying hard to read more, post less, but with more clarity and quality. And that apparently led marv to have a meta read on me, for "tone", despite me trying pretty hard to get shit right. That pretty much explains my QQ - no matter how hard I try, I'm found as scum every single fucking bitchass time, and this time even marv found it so.
On November 15 2012 08:58 marvellosity wrote: Z-Boson
Metarelated stuff. Let's a gogo. First of all, here's a sample post from him playing scum in Newbie XXIV. You'll have to excuse the length, but the point is it's length and effort.
I was try-hard at the time, that was my first newbie game. That was a pretty tough way to play, so I abandoned it in favor of a more posty style (pretty much mimicking you).
Notice there are a large number of big posts. Big posts with certain conclusions . All the time. Much as here.
What's missing in Z-Boson's play this game?
On October 21 2012 22:46 Z-BosoN wrote:
On October 21 2012 13:13 DarthPunk wrote: Also his defense each time is oh you must be scum and trying to trick me. Nothing townie about it. And your 'meta' read is bleh.
Haha, you don't say, eh DP?
On October 22 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote:
On October 22 2012 00:52 DarthPunk wrote: Also ZB. Postgame I would like to go through how you make such accurate reads on me all the time. It get's frustrating as scum. (and also hilarious)
Oh-oh. This obviously-I'm-town post comes mostly from scum DP. Don't get so confident, I'm not dead sure on you yet!
On October 22 2012 01:08 Z-BosoN wrote: Sniped by austin. There we are, finally. Now waiting for the two days of unforgiving tunneling from him Hello Keirathi! How goes your scum life? Any thoughts you would like to trouble us with?
On October 22 2012 03:53 Z-BosoN wrote: k k Well, you really think he is scum and should insta-die before he's even had a chance to defend himself? I'm uncomfortable sending him to his grave like this... I'd like to know if you are scum. Think about it. It's the pro-town thing to do. If you are scum, it's pro-town because town will lynch a scum. If you are town, then it's pro-town that we don't have to kill you. Tell us
On September 30 2012 13:32 Z-BosoN wrote: Oh god. Is there anyways I can mega-vote him?
On September 30 2012 13:52 Z-BosoN wrote: I think someone has some real issues. Does liquid city have a psych ward?
On October 02 2012 11:04 Z-BosoN wrote: Omfg austin really loves me. I'm just going to ignore you this time, I make an oath that your bad arguments will bother me no more. You also seem a lot more scummy this game. At least on LVII your arguments made sense, from an ape's perspective. Right now you just seem desperate. I, Z-BosoN, solemnly swear, to never defend myself from austin's scrutiny ever again.
On October 22 2012 05:24 Z-BosoN wrote: Austin, holy shit. For the first time ever, I've successfully agreed with every single thing in your post, every single thing. /applauds
Due to recent events though, Hapa is coming off pretty suspicious to me.
This is a selection of quotes from GSL3 and Liquid City. I paste them all here to demonstrate Z-Boson's ability, and indeed propensity, to throw in light-hearted comments. He's not all serious all the time.
Except that that style of play is exactly why people threw shit at me all the time. Every single godamn game someone would take something I said, compare it with something else I've said that is inconsistent, and use it to justify me being scum. These light-hearted posts were the reason I spent more time defending myself than actually scumhunting
Look at his filter here. Can you find that? At all? No, not really. It's completely absent. Arguably, this is it:
On November 13 2012 09:41 Z-BosoN wrote:
Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out
Right at the beginning. I find his attitude towards DP... not townie. There's a lack of interaction from Z-Bo towards DarthPunk that I wouldn't expect from townie Z-Bo.
It's a jest, as I'm usually correct about DP's alignment.
On November 13 2012 11:20 Z-BosoN wrote: DP, that's the second time you've voted for him without saying why. This won't do.
It goes from the above, to:
On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote: Why not DarthPunk? He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
He finds him a 'good lynch', but he makes it clear that he's not using the referring to self as mislynch thing as scum. Is it that he's bitchy? Is that a scumtell? Who knows. He's "interested" to see how he goes in Day 2 though. The wording is just... ick.
I've done this "Why not xxx" in an attempt to organize town and consolidate on a lynch (kind of the opposite of what you are doing). That kind of wording problem is what I have to pay more attention to. To be honest, I just wanted to say that DP is scummy, but I'm not gonna use my " DP scum-o-meter" yet, as I don't yet have a solid read on him (due to the low amount of posts he has). I didn't spend much time on him because I was more focused on Hopeless.
On November 15 2012 08:21 Z-BosoN wrote: Had some internet problems.. Luckily it was on control C. In reply to marvs other post:
On November 15 2012 06:14 marvellosity wrote:
On November 15 2012 06:13 Z-BosoN wrote:
On November 15 2012 06:06 marvellosity wrote:
On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk? He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
i hate this. what's your read on him and why?
He can definitely be scum. The reasoning is above. I'd rather lynch Hopeless. Perhaps instead of "Why not DP?" just read "DP" and interpret that as a secondary assessment. I'd rather lynch Hopeless though, my post says it all. I find it interesting how you hated my bit on DP, instead of my bit on debears, your main lynch candidate. Is there anything else you want to add while you are at it? Do you agree with what I said?
I'm finding you kinda scummy all of a sudden actually.
"He can definitely be scum" is not a read, by the way. Anyone can definitely be scum.
Isn't it fucking obvious that I mean that to me he has a good chance of being scum, especially given what I've written on him? 10x better than your "I'm finding you kinda scummy" which adds shit to the thread. If Hopeless is a 10, DP is a 7, go with that. Try answering the question now? I phrased it very clearly and I find it important enough that I insist.
Anyways, Hopeless´s meta explanation makes sense, and that was my main issue with him. Right now I´d rather lynch DarthPunk. Gonna let marv finish to see if he will/will not change my mind.
##Unvote
There's weird things going on in this post. "If hopeless is a 10" to "his meta explanation makes sense".
He defended himself using context, and I agreed with it, these two games are on extremely differnet circumstances. Hopeless then posted his reads which were pretty reasonable and I decided my meta case was not so strong.
Generally, given Z-Bo's intimate familiarity with DP's play and his meta, there seems to be no discernable effort to make any read on him on that basis. Z-Boson is calling DarthPunk scum right now, but there's no supporting evidence of games previously played. I don't buy it.
I didn't choose yet to make an effort on him, because I didn't want to lynch him yet, because he has way too few posts for me to do that. I was gonna attempt to make a case on him right now, due to my change of heart on hopeless, and will do so if I see that I'll be all right (logic here is. If me town dies, then 100% town will come out losing. If me town lives, the % chance of town coming ou losing is the % chance I'm wrong)
Also I bolded that other line where he says I should answer just because I find the wording completely unnatural. "I find it important enough that I insist".
I find it important that you questioned my assessment on DP, and not debears, your top scum read. That led me to believe you agreed with my assessment on debears, and was going to be important for me to completely decided whether or not I would stick to my not wanting to lynch debears agenda. Dunno what you understood from that.
None of this play looks like Z-Boson's town play.
When he is townie, he is very indecisive about who he wants to lynch. Just look at his filter in GSL3 or Liquid city. Liquid City his vote jumped around more times than I can count and with great uncertainty, and even his final vote he still seemed clueless. And in GSL3 he agonised for days on everyone before finally voting for someone.
Here there is no... communication with town, trying to figure things out properly. It's BAM, BlazingHand is scum. He pursues BlazingHand - and make no mistake, he can pursue very well as scum, check the filter I gave you. Then when BH is off the table, he comes back today with BAM, Hopeless is scum.
As quoted there's the absence of Z-bo interacting in a lighthearted manner with town that I am familiar with. His filter is short, with long posts, rather than longer, with lots of short posts figuring things out.
##Vote: Z-Boson
So yea, basically it sums up to the change in my style I've talked about. You're gonna have to accept that the way I was playing before was a detriment to my gameplay, and made me frustrated, because too much of my time was wasted defending myself (which takes A LOT more time than scumhunting, for me). I tried doing that in GSL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376602¤tpage=4#73 but failed miserably. What happened? Hapa picked up on some inconsistent stuff I said lightheartedly and BAM, huge clusterfuck of back-and-forths based on something that could easily have been avoided should I have been less posty.
Also, a bit of WIFOM. I remember my scum game, and I looked at the feedback from the obs qt. This part of my meta I'm completely aware of, so why would I not choose to replicate is as scum?
Basically, you are gonna have to decide whether: A) I, ask scum, didn't realize that me as townie posts a lot more and a lot more lightheartedly and posted in my natural scummy way here. B) I, as town, actually did attempt execute the change of style I extensively talked to hapa about, in a way that makes sense (as you yourself have seen from my past town games), and in a way that's actually better, and more like it's said in XXX analysis (which I reread at times of frustration).
So, please analyze the actual content and the actual effort Im putting in this game (note my pushing of BH, it shows extensive signs of reading and carefulness in my wording and logic... such in a way that you agreed with it) instead of this "he's posting less!!!" argument. Also, I have much less time to play now, exam weeks coming up ahead, and am trying to make the most of it.
Yep. Z-BosoN = townie.
It's there, it makes sense, and you should pause and think about how silly would it be for me to be scum. Like, I'm a mega-bussing fakeclaiming scum who was extensively defended by his scumbuddy (hapa, at that.), and then was bussed by him as soon as I said he was scum?
0 sense. Turn conspiracy theory goggles off for one second and you'll see reason, I guarantee it.
Ugh fine. But It's not my wet dream to catch you as scum I have done it before. But I agree it would be incredibly stupid for you to play as you have as scum.
I don't want to lynch S&B though. so I am going to have to go through filters when I have access to my PC. Can't do it on a phone.
On November 16 2012 14:04 Z-BosoN wrote: I'm very sleepy right now. I'm not satisfied yet with a S&B lynch. My vote on him is mostly due to how he's played thsi game. Tomorrow I'm going to do some rereading on clarity, thrawn and S&B and establish my read. I encourage town to do the same.
Night
PS: it was that goodkarma sob that caught me
Read my coaching QT with BH I caught you YH and you independently GK did as well.
On November 17 2012 09:12 strongandbig wrote: okay so BH explain to me even if we accept that I was somehow lurking or whatever why does that change your interpretation of my day 1 posting? you were pretty adamant that it meant I was town, and then you completely changed your mind without any explanation whatsoever.
Let me break it down for you SnB cause apparently you're not getting it at all. This is the last time I'm responding to your trash posting-- if you convince other people to join your crusade, I'll talk to you again but other than this you're wasting my time.
Here's the deadline votecount, with confirmed flips highlighted:
Now I don't think anyone on the Hapa wagon is a serious lynch target today. I don't personally think it's impossible scum is on the wagon, but it doesn't make a huge amount of sense for scum to bus and lynch Hapa unless they're in a better position than him in terms of town cred. As the votes started to fly, any reasonable scum player would have unvoted him unless they thought they had something to gain by lynching their own godfather last-minute.
So I'm gonna say that scum is among the following list:
Djo, Hopeless, Clarity, SnB
Hopeless is in my mind confirmed not-scum right now. There's some small probability he's the SK, but we don't need to think about that unless the third scum flips and the game isn't over (I think). Really though he's not worth a lynch today at all. Djo replaced in and isn't getting lynched today.
That leaves you and Clarity, and my only suspicion on clarity is the same suspicion on Hapa I had D1: He was too accepting of my blue-claim, and too reasonable about it. It's like he already *knew* I was a JK just from the claim. This is why I was trying to lynch Hapa D1 and why Clarity doesn't get a perfect town-read in my book, despite his otherwise solid play.
You have no solid play in your favor, SnB. You went from carefree posting to a mixture of lurking and aggressive, big-case posting, which is in fact not your town meta. You're dead today.
ZB as well. He couldn't reasonably not vote for HAPA to save himself either.
On November 17 2012 09:21 Blazinghand wrote: Honestly, I expect more out of you, not as a scum or town player, but as a player in general and as a person. I guess my first read on you in that game so long ago was correct: SnB is a worthless mafia player.
This really isn't necessary BH. I never figured you as one for personal attacks. But I like both you and S&B from what I know of you and this is just unnecessary bullshit IMO.
On November 17 2012 09:21 Blazinghand wrote: Honestly, I expect more out of you, not as a scum or town player, but as a player in general and as a person. I guess my first read on you in that game so long ago was correct: SnB is a worthless mafia player.
This really isn't necessary BH. I never figured you as one for personal attacks. But I like both you and S&B from what I know of you and this is just unnecessary bullshit IMO.
lol wat you never figured bh for personal attacks?
No he has always been super friendly and nice whenever I have interacted with him. I never played with him though. Maybe that is the difference.
On November 17 2012 09:12 strongandbig wrote: okay so BH explain to me even if we accept that I was somehow lurking or whatever why does that change your interpretation of my day 1 posting? you were pretty adamant that it meant I was town, and then you completely changed your mind without any explanation whatsoever.
Let me break it down for you SnB cause apparently you're not getting it at all. This is the last time I'm responding to your trash posting-- if you convince other people to join your crusade, I'll talk to you again but other than this you're wasting my time.
Here's the deadline votecount, with confirmed flips highlighted:
Now I don't think anyone on the Hapa wagon is a serious lynch target today. I don't personally think it's impossible scum is on the wagon, but it doesn't make a huge amount of sense for scum to bus and lynch Hapa unless they're in a better position than him in terms of town cred. As the votes started to fly, any reasonable scum player would have unvoted him unless they thought they had something to gain by lynching their own godfather last-minute.
So I'm gonna say that scum is among the following list:
Djo, Hopeless, Clarity, SnB
Hopeless is in my mind confirmed not-scum right now. There's some small probability he's the SK, but we don't need to think about that unless the third scum flips and the game isn't over (I think). Really though he's not worth a lynch today at all. Djo replaced in and isn't getting lynched today.
That leaves you and Clarity, and my only suspicion on clarity is the same suspicion on Hapa I had D1: He was too accepting of my blue-claim, and too reasonable about it. It's like he already *knew* I was a JK just from the claim. This is why I was trying to lynch Hapa D1 and why Clarity doesn't get a perfect town-read in my book, despite his otherwise solid play.
You have no solid play in your favor, SnB. You went from carefree posting to a mixture of lurking and aggressive, big-case posting, which is in fact not your town meta. You're dead today.
ZB as well. He couldn't reasonably not vote for HAPA to save himself either.
Hm, That's a fair point, and ZB is a claimed Miller which adds some credence to that. Still, I'm not sure scum ZB would have voted Hapa to save himself, especially with Hapa as the gf. I don't think ZB is a good lynch today.
He was the first on the HAPA wagon. He thought he was going to get lynched. If he flipped red he would have set hapa up to be in a really good position. With a flipped on his wagon. But then the very unlikely scenario that hapa was going to get lynched occured, despite all reasonable expectations that a wagon 5 min before deadline would fail. ZB had already laid his WIFOM bombs HAPA being one of them and if he unvoted HAPA after all that to save him it would have damned them both.
On November 17 2012 09:59 iamperfection wrote: i dont like how zboson posted some suspicions on me and others and has not pushed them at all nor has he pushed the other people he was suspicious of. Seems like he dosen't care.
On November 16 2012 13:02 Z-BosoN wrote: I´ve been a bit busy today, and will be so tomorrow as well. I´m down with a SnB lynch right now. Tomorrow I´m going to check thrawn´s filter (djodref can´t really do much at this point...) and see if I still think so, when I find time.
Anyways, checking BH is the stupidest shit you can do, whoever said that above. Odds that he is scum are really low right now. Like I said, just lynch the people on my wagon and youll do just fine. (was right about one of them already. Debears, update the scoreboard will you )
Also, to those of you who think I´m scum, you are out of your fucking mind. That´s about it.
##Vote SnB
says hes going to be busy next two days but is go to check thraws now djo filter( lol wat). Plus he then didn't do it anyways.
On November 17 2012 09:59 iamperfection wrote: i dont like how zboson posted some suspicions on me and others and has not pushed them at all nor has he pushed the other people he was suspicious of. Seems like he dosen't care.
also
On November 16 2012 13:02 Z-BosoN wrote: I´ve been a bit busy today, and will be so tomorrow as well. I´m down with a SnB lynch right now. Tomorrow I´m going to check thrawn´s filter (djodref can´t really do much at this point...) and see if I still think so, when I find time.
Anyways, checking BH is the stupidest shit you can do, whoever said that above. Odds that he is scum are really low right now. Like I said, just lynch the people on my wagon and youll do just fine. (was right about one of them already. Debears, update the scoreboard will you )
Also, to those of you who think I´m scum, you are out of your fucking mind. That´s about it.
##Vote SnB
says hes going to be busy next two days but is go to check thraws now djo filter( lol wat). Plus he then didn't do it anyways.
On November 17 2012 10:02 DarthPunk wrote: Debears. Please respond to the only constructive posting in the thread so far. I.E. NOT the JK claim or Blazinghand.
DP, if you're referring to the we can't use Z-Bo's vote as a town tell I agree. It is plausible he was also scum and hapa tried to save him
Seriously, going to look at d1 now
That. And the fact that his play matches his scum meta perfectly. also look at his death posts in comparison to mine. What are the differences? which seem genuine and which seem polished?
On November 17 2012 10:15 debears wrote: Does anyone know the odds of a miller being in the setup with:
1) a jk/scum rb 2) a vig 3) a gf
I don't feel like crunching actual numbers, but that setup would only require:
MVD ####
M=mason/miller. 1 M usually means innocent child, but that was replaced by miller. V=Vig - All are single shot, so this roll is questionable as to how it gets handed out D=Doctor/Jailkeeper
4 "unknown" rolls, however, some may need to be duplicates to actually generate the blue. Therefore I`d estimate an additional 2 blues in this game. As always setup speculation is tedious and not worth that much in the grand scheme of things when playing a semi-open setup. I think we should leave it alone unless someone claims scum through attempted setup-based manipulation.
On November 14 2012 08:40 Blazinghand wrote: yeah the ZB defense imo tells us more about iamp than it does about ZB-- but either way neither of them a good lynch today
Yeah I'm looking at Thrawn and Kickstart atm. Thrawn's inactivity is pretty uncharacteristic of him so far. Kickstart as well dumped some suspicion on me and then peace'd out. I'm a bit more forgiving to Kickstart though as a first-time player.
So let's get thrawn talking shall we?
##Vote Thrawn
(Would love to hear from kickstart too, but more concerned with Thrawn atm)
he did actually he just didn't mention cross.
That damn near clears djo as far as association cases go.
Maybe not clear. But I would be inclined to Look at S&B Clarity and ZB first.
On November 15 2012 10:50 Z-BosoN wrote: Also, if anyone is thinking of voting me, it is becasue you are blindly sheeping marv. Fucking read my defense, FUCKING READ WHAT I SAID REGARDING MY META. FUCKING READ WHAT HAPA SAID. It's a case based SOLELY ON META
DP is acting VERY differently then when he is scum gettingl ynched. I want to unvote him and vote for hopeless.
Also, if I for some godly reason to get lynched. Here are my reads:
Hapa: scum scum scum. Gonna go after him day 2 should I live.
BH probably scum. I can't fathom his claim AT ALL. Kill him should he be alive in like, day 3.
Rest of everybody I'm not sure. Marv is prob town, an arrogant fucking one who can't see the reasonable explanation I've given, but he's pretty much town.
ZB wants to vote hopeless whilst screaming that BH and HAPA are scum.
On November 15 2012 10:51 Z-BosoN wrote: SIgh... looks like town decided to sheep a read to which I gave a perfectly plausible explanation.
Lynch Hapahauli.
That's about it. Can't fucking believe this.
He then doesn't mention BH or hopeless at all and says we should vote HAPA.
On November 15 2012 10:52 Z-BosoN wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote Hopeless1der
At least in my future games, I'll be able to keep this much better and improved meta up.
He then Votes for hopeless despite proclaiming Hapa is scum.
He then says we should lynch Hapa despite not actually voting for him yet.
On November 15 2012 10:55 Z-BosoN wrote: LYNCH HAPAHAULI.
LYNCH BLAZINGHAND. when he is alive day 3.
marv, hope you learn you are not the fucking god of mafia, and see that meta reads are only worth it if it isn't fucking obvious stylistic proven logical and pre-claimed reasons.
This is like such an obvious WIFOM bomb. It was super obvious as soon as I saw it. He is not adding anything to the thread in terms of info or reads but is laying the framework for association WIFOM.
On November 15 2012 11:13 Z-BosoN wrote: WHAT NOW?!?!?!?!?!?!?! DEBEARS FUCKING HIGH FIVE I'LL SAY WHY I THOUGHT HAPA WAS SCUM WHEN THIS IS OVER.
This is like so easy to fake as scum. He says he will tell us why he thought hapa is scum later. As if he had some way of knowing. He promises to reveal them later.
On November 15 2012 11:15 debears wrote: scoreboard update
Z-Bo 1 Debears 1
Nah man, I figured he was scum due to totally different reasons than yours. I just didn't think we would have lynched him based on my arguments alone, and I didn't want to get in a verbal fight with him (he's so fucking difficult to deal with). His interaction with you I'd say was fairly regular.
Let us compare dicks when the game is over though, and right now REJOICE!!!!
Town fucking awesome. I fucking love you guys. I fucking fucking love you guys. YOU lynched hapa. And now the information we get is OUTSTANDING. Scum is almost 100% in my wagon (maaaaybe except BH, but nah, not voting him tomorrow). I'm obvious not fucking scum, my reads were obviously my last will.
Fuck yea.
Again he says here that he had some arguments for why HAPA was scum and they were different from debears. We are still waiting for his explanation though.
On November 17 2012 10:39 Blazinghand wrote: I'm feeling more confident in ZB though. This isn't town ZB.
I agree. He felt off all game. And his Death post was a blatant WIFOM bomb if I have ever seen one.
##Vote: Z - Boson
How is it a WIFOm bomb you retard? Did you think i'd assume you guys would jump off of me and go towards hapahauli with five fucking minutes left to lynch-time??? What makes more sense?? The amount of stupidity is way too fucking high.
WHY WOULD I BUS MY TEAMMATE, HAPA AT THAT, WITH 5 MINUTES LEFT TO GO AND LIKE 8 VOTES ON ME??? WHY NOT TELL TOWN TO LYNCH SOMEONE ELSE??
On August 20 2012 12:25 Z-BosoN wrote: All right guys, some debriefing should take place. I agree that we shouldn't back off during the night. It is crucial we get it right this time. Let's see what we have:
YourHarry Extremely weird player. My main theory against him was that he was trying to do a lame bus on thrawn. Granted as thrawn was indeed vigi, this is not the case. However, his posts and comments generally are inconsistent, lack explanations, and keep changing. His posts are a diarrhea of WIFOM that I've decided are only here to confuse us with its vagueness, lack of clarity, and lack of purpose. Observe:
I am having second thoughts about Thrawn. First thing that doesn't make sense if Thrawn is scum: If Thrawn is indeed scum then he left that "bread crumb" post so that he can use that as evidence to mislead the town that he is vigilante. But Thrawn denied this post as the "bread crumb" post, and in his initial claim, he never even referenced this post in the first place...
Second thing that I am not sure about is that, claiming vigilante is so dangerous for scum. One weak point in this line of thinking is that Thrawn did ask the mod to confirm that there could be more than one vigilante. I think it is possible that scum Thrawn DID ask the moderator in private prior to asking publicly that there could be more than one vigilante.
What is this supposed to implicate? Useless garbage.
STILL, whether or not there could be two vigilante... a counter vigilante claim would definitely have made Thrawn look suspicious. Would it not? I am not sure scum would have taken this risk.
He keeps babbling, and doesn't make a point. How in anyway is this post helping town? And we keep going:
But I am scared to unvote, because I will be the next person to be lynched after Thrawn
What is this supposed to mean? Is he a scum that wants us to think this or is he a townie that wants us to think that he is thinking... oh wait, WIFOM. This statement means CRAP.
I am not super confident in my scum read. Upon my reading just now, I found Jhyut case's scummy. Sheeping Thrawn's case here, but Jhyut did not care whether I am town or scum - he wanted to lynch me. I thought he was something else, but I guess I was wrong again. HE is also lurking pretty hard, so he may turn out to be scum
Crappety crap crap CRAP. He is randomly throwing around suspicions and not committing to anything. This in no conceivable way helps town.
My case against Golbat and Darth was based on my scum read on Thrawn. Not sure anymore.
Scumslip? How does he suddenly know that thrawn is not scum? Oh, that's right, he decided thrawn isn't scum with his brilliant and well thought-out argument, quoted above. I'm sure we can agree that his posts don't help the town and scream scum. Even though there was strong evidence that thrawn and YH were scum, due to the way they were playing it D1, I am still inclined to think he is scum. This requires much more thought, as we will have to be certain that we lynch a scum in the next day.
Jhuyt
He is a quiet and lurky player. He mentions possibilities, without compromise, and doesn't take a stance on anything.
The more I think of it the more I find that either Shady or Thrawn is scum. But since my basis of suspicion against Thrawn is basically gone I really can't vote for him. I think this post + Show Spoiler + coupled with Thrawn's reason to accuse Arch is enough for me too consider Shady as scum.
##Vote: Shady Sands
I have to go for the next couple of hours so I won't be here for the conclusion of the day, see ya later.
Bases himself off completely off of someone else's arguments, and announces he will have to leave. He then makes complains about how wishy-washy YourHarry is, says it is urgent that we lynch him, and starts to make shallow arguments on GK:
When I looked at the case GK made in this post I got the feeling that you might be scum, but I wasn't sure. When I couple that with your scumslip it makes more sense that he's right and therefore I think you're scum.
The benefit of the doubt line was one that I was considering to cut out of the post because it doesn't add anything and I'm pretty sure I misused the expression.
I should have said that while I do think you're scum I think that YH's behaviour is way scummier and so much more anti-town that a lynch on him is necessary so that we can have a clearer discussion.
But still considering YourHarry's wishy-washyness more scummy. Gets attacked by thrawn, who basically states the same things I'm saying right now, and is defended with weak and contentless posts. He simply doesn't take a solid stance on anyone (except maybe for YH). He's generally much more lurkier and gives off too few to work with.
Golbat Beastly Lurker. Joined on the thrawn bandwagon and disappeared. We should have lynched him a long time ago. This makes me understand why lurker policy needs to be so strong. If he was a civilian before, then we would be down a lurking civilian who was not helping at all. Now, however, we cannot afford another misslynch, and have to be more careful. But since he has barely any posts, it will be very hard to determine for sure what he is.
goodkarma and DarthPunk
I wanted to make sure that I wasn't skipping any details on the non-obvious choices. I've noticed some weird behavior on GK, which I've already mentioned. Since I've already gone through thrawn's filter, I can understand where GK could have found some reason to back off of thrawn. I don't think he is scum, as I can't think of why a scum would go ahead and say I'M SURE HES GUILTY, to backing off entirely. Scum generally take hesitant postures that lack commitment and conviction. I've read DarthPunk's filter carefully and wasn't able to detect anything too suspicious or compromising, as he has been making accusations and backing them up with well explained arguments. Also, both him and goodkarma have been making tons of pro-town and meaningful accusations. If one of them is mafia, it is not in this round that we will be able to lynch them unless we can pick up on something not yet noted.
Stutters and Obvious to come. I'm sleepy and have to wake up early tomorrow. Please, be active, let me know what you think of this post and contribute your own ideas and suspicions as well.
On August 17 2012 05:14 Z-BosoN wrote: My current lists of suspects stands as:
1) thrawn2112 2) YourHarry 3) Shady Sands
Due to all of my previous reasoning, and the fact that none of them have given me reason to retract my suspicions. However, I am very firm on my decision to execute lynchers. Day one is filled with circumstantial evidence and is very easy to make wrong conclusions, and the probability of a miss-lynch is very high. What we DO know for CERTAIN is that lurkers are way more prejudicial to the town, because we cannot have decent reads on them. This is a game of reasoning and deduction, but for that, we need DATA, INFORMATION, which lurkers fail to provide. For this first day, since I don't think any of the suspicions so far are conclusive, I will vote for a lurker. We have Golbat , Stutters, and JHuyt who have been balls-out lurkers. I say we should lynch one of those. Now, speaking for myself, how will I choose? Let's take a brief look at their history:
Golbat Has said nothing. Has two posts. He is lurker number one. He briefly accused thrawn with little evidence, threw some dirt on Shady, YourHarry and Solar. If we lynch him and he turns out townie, we will not have any new leads from that information, but will be down a useless townie. If we lynch him and he turns out scum, that will be great for us, but we will still have no leads. His accusations could just as easily be his scum buddies due to the fact that he hasn't done any sort of analysis on anybody. I would go even so far as to think that he will be mod-killed, due to not voting. If he suddenly posts now, we will have VERY strong reason to lynch him the next day, because posting some crap early on and disappearing until close to the deadline is a Strong Strong indicator of SCUM.
Onward.
Stutters He begins by agreeing that the discussion regarding SK is a waste of time he doesn't raise suspicion, doesn't do any investigative move, just says that and goes on to tell Solar to post better. Then he makes a longer post, telling Solar once again to stop with the trolling (which is fine, he was getting annoying), and making a small, non-compromising case against Shady. States some facts, then moves on, without taking an aggressive stance. Asks why getting filters is necessary (I had already mentioned this...). And just like that, he's gone. Basically he is on the same boat as Golbat. If we lynch him and he turns out townie, we will have lynched a semi-useless townie. If we lynch him and he turns out scum, great! But still no real info.
So that leaves... JHyut Who begins with similar obvious cases against Solar, Shady, and YourHarry. Escapes having to post anything else saying "I'm sorry, but I don't think I can be of any more use until new evidence is posted.". Then goes on to FOS thrawn, not using any original evidence. Without explaining anything, says that Archrun was not scum, says that thrawn is not scum, then votes for Shady Sands, without explaining, and just like that he's gone.
If we lynch him and he turns out townie, then thrawn will have some weight off his shoulders. He would have ignored accusing a greenie based on his lack of observation. Golbat will look about the same, because he was ignored alongside an innocent and we may figure something out on ArchRun as well (I still have to read more carefully his posts). If we lynch him and he turns out scum, Archrun and thrawn2112 will not look so good. He INSTANTLY dropped his suspicion of both these players, and this is resonated by my case against Thrawn, where I note a fishy situation between thrawn and either golbat,archrun and/or jhuyt. Here is a snippet so you guys don't have to go all the way back:
You made an FOS on Archrun by saying that he only had made 3 posts and had no scumhunting. However, you completely ignored Golbat, who only has 2 posts with one-dimensional scumhunting claims, being that the FIRST thing he says is that you are the scummiest player, to which you respond with:
Is this something I need to defend myself on? I am not sober right now so I don't think I could type a clear response till I wake up. Going to sleep now, I hope to wake up and see some more posts.
And you don't mention it again. This seems to me to be a clear, 100% dodge. You give IRL excuses and forget about it, even hinting that you don't feel the need to answer it. You ignore Golbat not once, but twice. A townie thrawn would definitely bother defending himself to a direct attack such as that, and would try to policy-lynch both Golbat and ArchRun.
However, you also didn't call JHyut, who also has 2 posts and even worse in quality than both the mentioned posters. Why mention only ArchRun and not Golbat, who called you out or JHyut? Either this is incredibly sloppy play, or you have a scum partner. If we assume the latter, then I can only think of:
1) You are trying to distract people from Golbat by making other accusations, and completely ignored JHyut. 2) You are trying to bus your partner ArchRun so as to draw away suspicion from yourself in case he comes up red. And, you completely ignored JHyut and Golbat. 3) You don't want to call out three people at once for whatever reason and chose someone other than your scum partner.
I find this Highly Suspicious.
That being said, I think right now the general lurkyness of JHuyt + the lack of quality of his posts + this weird switch of votes + his affiliation with Golbat and the amount of information we can make out if he is lynched, I will go with
##Vote JHuyt
PS: I noticed I got sniped. Dangerous timing there, Stutters. I will not bother changing my post, because I have to head out, but I think I will be able to log on near the deadline. Hope I sounded reasonable enough.
Great job increasing the discussion in this eery end of D1!
Here is Z-Boson this game
On November 16 2012 03:34 Z-BosoN wrote: Allright, out of the bunch, I'd be happiest with a crossfire lynch. I don't doubt his internet connection problems, but my main problems are of these two posts:
On November 14 2012 14:11 Crossfire99 wrote: I never want to get that behind ever again. Ugh. That was painful. So many useless posts. I can see why blazing really hated me for posting so much fluff in WLIIA. That's what makes it so weird this game, though. He's posted so much stuff that doesn't matter and just takes up space. In WLIIA, he came down on me so hard because of the amount of fluff I posted. He clearly knows it is anti-town, yet still does it here. I don't understand it at all. If he hadn't claimed jailkeeper (which I'm still not sure I buy), I probably would be voting for him right now. I'm willing to give him a little time to shape up his posting, but if he hasn't done it by then, I want to lynch him.
I am also very confused by strong. I played with him both when he was town and scum, and he never played like this. I believe someone was talking about him possibly changing his meta because it was too obvious when he was scum. Basically he is playing weirdly and has a decent number of fluff posts. This makes me suspicious of him. I find him less scummy than blazing, though.
Other than that though, I just need to digest everything. I have a serious headache now after reading all of that. If you want me to respond to something ask me a question. Otherwise I'll probably come in here sometime after I wake up tomorrow and comment on the top cases. I don't know of any other way of making sense of everything that is happening without going crazy.
Oh and for anyone who is wondering why I chose blazing and strong to single out: blazing really stuck out with the amount of fluff he's been posting plus I know how he plays town because he just did it in WLIIA; as for strong , I've played with him in my last two games, plus I just figured out that he was scum in our last game, WLIIA, so his play is fresh on my mind.
Bolded I read as: "look at me guys!!! I'm trying super hard to read everything!!" Underlined I read as an overexplanation to him posting his reads, which I find pretty scummy. He does that again here:
On November 15 2012 10:25 iamperfection wrote: Crossfire if you run away right now i will be super pissed the next 30 or so min of your belong in this thread right now.
I am freaking in this thread. I have to catch up on a lot of stuff. I am sorry I wasn't here. I planned to be here and spend time on this game, but then my internet crapped out. I don't know how else I can apologize for this.
On November 15 2012 08:58 marvellosity wrote: Z-Boson
Metarelated stuff. Let's a gogo. First of all, here's a sample post from him playing scum in Newbie XXIV. You'll have to excuse the length, but the point is it's length and effort.
Well that was quick. Let me see if I understand. Now, in day 3, in a MYLO situation, you propose to.
On August 21 2012 09:16 goodkarma wrote: Okay then. We need to be active today, and I'm wasting no time in getting started:
@Golbat:
You have a lot of explaining to do for your lurking, so please start there. Also, if you would kindly explain this quote:
On August 18 2012 15:59 Golbat wrote:
On August 18 2012 15:50 DarthPunk wrote:
On August 18 2012 15:32 Golbat wrote:
On August 18 2012 15:19 DarthPunk wrote:
On August 18 2012 15:10 Golbat wrote:
On August 18 2012 12:55 goodkarma wrote: @YourHarry:
Any suggestions as to who this someone else is that we should lynch?
My first thoughts are either Orchrow or you.
You seem to be very interested in keeping thrawn alive as long as possible... I suggest you start making some meaningful suggestions as to who you feel looks scummier. And it would also be helpful if you commented on people's most recent cases against thrawn, Orchrow, and yourself instead of continuing to strive to keep Thrawn alive.
There are situations here where the vigi still shouldn't claim. Like what if there is an sk, but the vigi hasn't used his shot yet? A vigi counter claim here would be terrible, as he could wind up rb'ed by scum and NK'ed before he can do anything.
And if we wait, who's to say town doesn't get a successful medic save or rb? Or that scum or the sk (if he exists) doesn't just sit back and do nothing for one night? There's a few different ways that there could be an sk but fewer than two night kills.
Waiting achieves nothing. My read, and the read of several of us here, is that thrawn is scum.It's time for him to go. Read through the case points against him, and show us why you feel he might be town. It's more productive than your WIFOM defense of thrawn you're presenting now.
I am in agreement that we should just lynch thrawn here. We seem to have caught a scum or even two, I think if thrawn flips scum then YH is almost certainly scum.
You are lurking pretty hard buddy. I would also like to ask Ochrow, solarsail Z-Boson and Stutters to increase their contributions.
I agree i'm lurking, but I feel that I have at least contributed well for my sparse filter. I made my case on thrawn, and cast my vote. When I see something worth discussing I mention it. I may not be living in the thread as hard as you, harry or thrawn, but at least I've contributed. What do you suggest I do to be less "lurky"? Make a shit case on someone in a misguided attempt to look active? Last game it got me lynched and cost town a vigi shot.
I'll go over the thread again and see if anything catches my eye, but I don't really see a case I can make that hasn't already been made ATM. At the very least i'll prod some people in my next couple posts.
Why so defensive? I understand that you got lynched for being over eager in XXII but your posting is markedly different than what I experienced there (although you were only alive for 24 hours so not much of a meta to read ) my post was not a personal attack but rather a call to all lurkers to contribute something.
Apologies. I didn't mean to come off as defensive, just that I'm not intentionally lurking, just not posting uselessly. in my last game I died before I could make a big contribution, and I just want to help catch a scum before I die this game. Now is the time to step it up I guess.
I've already explained what I felt was scummy about this, but in case you need a reminder:
You seem more interested in staying alive right now than in actually scumhunting. "Not posting uselessly" is not an excuse for not posting at all. Even one one-line post explaining your absence would have been useful at this point, and you wouldn't even contribute that.
You argue to not be lurking intentionally, but I would argue that yes, lurking for 48 hours is rather intentional. There's no way that you haven't thought up anything worthwhile in that time unless if between then and now you have forgotten altogether about this thread. And why would you do that if you want to "make a big contribution" that leads to the lynch of a scum?
One more question: Why did you tunnel Thrawn so hard?
##Vote: Golbat
Wait a minute. This is do or die for the town. You plan to consolidate your vote on someone who barely has any information on him and has been a hardcore lurker since day one? Because he tunneled thrawn, as if you didn't? Oh wait, that's right, you had a very sudden change of heart. But then, you go on and say that:
(...)And finally there's the final vote count for day 2. I currently believe the Thrawn mislynch had heavy scum support. One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support. If you look at the votes, and see where those who have established themselves as town have voted, I'm sure you'll agree the YourHarry lynch had some reputable town support behind it. And all of the current scum suspects are on the Thrawn mislynch.:
Well that's a very convenient argument, to go along with your name not being on that list. Drop in the bomb, wait for people to sheep you, then escape, no compromises. It's also ironic you didn't think of it before, when everybody wanted Shady Sands dead, who was the top poster at the moment. I'll go ahead and post the day one votes.
Same argument you used. Look at that, everyone on ShadySands list must be quite the suspects of being scum. Because, "One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support."
Except that he wasn't scum was he? This is because this argument is very weak. It only becomes suspicious when one target has a LOT of scumminess on him and a LOT of posts against him while the other looks so innocent and barely has anything substatial on him. This is not the case, because thrawn had a huge wall of text against him, not only the one you posted, but also the one that I did as well. DP also thought he was scum, and I will agree that the case against thrawn was fairly powerful.
DAY ONE should have been the time we should have lynched lurkers. DAY TWO, maybe. Not day 3, with a do or die scenario, against someone who, as Obvious pointed out, is clearly not giving a rat's ass about this game. This day will be the target with the greatest case against him. I really don't like how quick it was for you to vote on golbat, and how quick some people seemed to sheep you.
Regarding YourHarry, you went from him possibly being your third suspect to him being your main suspect with this post:
On August 21 2012 17:59 goodkarma wrote: Regarding YourHarry:
Sometimes the most obvious scum is the hardest to spot. YourHarry has a "meta" for sporadic and unpredictable play. But however strange, or different, or unpredictable his play is, if you were to look at the motivation behind his play, you can determine his alignment. With YourHarry, actions speak louder than words:
-First, YourHarry is fond of withholding information from us. YourHarry starts the game by making a weak WIFOM case on me, claiming if I'm not a mason I'm scum. He withholds his read on me for a long time until pressured to provide it, and while here maybe you could argue he had some justification, this is a recurring theme. Over and over again he's done this. With this "mason case," with vote swapping history, with providing reads on certain people (most recently, Golbat). This behavior is clearly anti-town. Obviously withholding information would be advantageous for scum as it could make it harder for others to get a good read on him. Could a townie also do this? Maybe, but this is just the tip of the iceberg.
-YourHarry is a fan of last-minute vote swapping. He has now twice last minute switched his vote to secure the mislynch of the top candidate. This behavior simply can't be ignored anymore. There is clear scum motivation here.
-The use of WIFOM first, actual use of reasoning when pressured later. He already did that today with Golbat. He started today with soft defending him, and then decides he will actually "read his filter." I'll say that again: only after defending Golbat with WIFOM does he decide it's a good idea to read his filter. Then, finally, he decides to actually present a case which is in fact against Golbat. In other words, he's demonstrated a lack of interest in actually contributing meaningfully to scumhunting.
-On top of this, today he has focused a large degree of effort on getting people to role claim. If my theory on scum's motive for the night kills is to be believed, YourHarry is trying to draw important town roles out of hiding as easy scum targets.
There's loads of scum motivation to be seen behind YourHarry's actions, and there are several cases that have already been made against him. Yet somehow he seems to have avoided getting lynched. My biggest issue with lynching him, and why he hasn't been higher on my "scum reads," has been that his play is consistently bad, and it would be easy to mislynch a town YourHarry. But if you look at his actions, they fit a scum agenda.
And finally there's the final vote count for day 2. I currently believe the Thrawn mislynch had heavy scum support. One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support. If you look at the votes, and see where those who have established themselves as town have voted, I'm sure you'll agree the YourHarry lynch had some reputable town support behind it. And all of the current scum suspects are on the Thrawn mislynch.:
Directly from the official end of day 2 post (minus the blue text): thrawn2112, as VisceraEyes, vigilante, was lynched!
I encourage everyone to put together their reads, as there's still time for you to express your viewpoints before we consolidate our vote in the last 24 hours of the day. And obviously supporting or dissenting case points towards this case would be much appreciated.
Your arguments are nothing new, it's what has been stated on YourHarry since the beggining of time. The only thing new that you add is that he is suspiciously wanting everyone to roleclaim. But why do you focus on him, and blatantly ignore DarthPunk's same remark:
On August 21 2012 13:49 DarthPunk wrote:
On August 21 2012 13:24 YourHarry wrote: Good point on scums not having time to respond to your latest post. But there were common suspicions between Golbat and Jhyut that were posted hours before deadline:
Z-boson's suspect list went: me, Jhyut, Golbat Darth's suspect list: Golbat, Jhyut, Solar GK's suspect list: Golbat, Jhyut, Obvious
Maybe WIFOM. But to me, I still can't get my head around scum Golbat lynching town Jhyut, who seemed to be scum Golbat's only way out.
Regards to no lynching, the only caveat for choosing to lynch today rather than tomorrow is the medic save. But if we decide to go ahead with our lynch today, I think claiming today is a good idea. We NEED a scum lynch today. And everyone claiming would make that much easier.
Sorry I am kind of busy and am not following the thread right now. but I agree with a mass claim. we are at the stage of the game where we need as much info as possible because we cannot afford a mistake. I feel really out of my depth here, scum are either afk winning or playing really well.
The same guy in which you solemnly confided your trust in your "will":
(...)I have played with DarthPunk before, and I’ve seen his scum play. He has been 10 times more proactive than he was in that game about sharing scum reads and I am convinced he is legitimately searching for scum this time around. Add to that that he’s come independently to similar reads as myself, and I feel he is my strongest town read right now. So all of you get behind him as your leader and consolidate your vote under him. There is a small (note: slim) chance that he’s scum, but you’re going to have to live with that. To have a chance of winning town needs to consolidate its vote and this is the best way to do this. Come the next night, I leave it to Darthpunk to leave his successor in a will similar to this one should he also get NK’ed.
Also, you say these incredibly serious accusations:
(...)There's loads of scum motivation to be seen behind YourHarry's actions, and there are several cases that have already been made against him. Yet somehow he seems to have avoided getting lynched. My biggest issue with lynching him, and why he hasn't been higher on my "scum reads," has been that his play is consistently bad, and it would be easy to mislynch a town YourHarry. But if you look at his actions, they fit a scum agenda.
And you don't bother explaining what you mean. You just sheep around with the main case that has already been made, add something meaningless (if you want to give it meaning, please go ahead and attack DarthPunk as well), then hint at the most serious accusations you can possibly make and don't go ahead and explain what you mean.
I agree wholeheartedly that YourHarry is scum, you can go ahead and check that in my filter , but the way you write this and the arguments you use make me feel very suspicious that you may be scum as well. Now I see that the only reason I had lifted my suspicions of you were mainly WIFOM, but your latest actions have definitely raised my eyebrows. Right now is the easiest time for a scum to slip, because any small mistake now will not slip by so easily.
One more thing, you say that the night kills were not discussed in detail. Read my filter, if you will. Actually this night's night kills is what is giving me additional ammo on YH. That soon to come.
On October 21 2012 13:13 DarthPunk wrote: Also his defense each time is oh you must be scum and trying to trick me. Nothing townie about it. And your 'meta' read is bleh.
On October 22 2012 00:52 DarthPunk wrote: Also ZB. Postgame I would like to go through how you make such accurate reads on me all the time. It get's frustrating as scum. (and also hilarious)
Oh-oh. This obviously-I'm-town post comes mostly from scum DP. Don't get so confident, I'm not dead sure on you yet!
On October 22 2012 01:08 Z-BosoN wrote: Sniped by austin. There we are, finally. Now waiting for the two days of unforgiving tunneling from him Hello Keirathi! How goes your scum life? Any thoughts you would like to trouble us with?
On October 22 2012 03:53 Z-BosoN wrote: k k Well, you really think he is scum and should insta-die before he's even had a chance to defend himself? I'm uncomfortable sending him to his grave like this... I'd like to know if you are scum. Think about it. It's the pro-town thing to do. If you are scum, it's pro-town because town will lynch a scum. If you are town, then it's pro-town that we don't have to kill you. Tell us
On October 02 2012 11:04 Z-BosoN wrote: Omfg austin really loves me. I'm just going to ignore you this time, I make an oath that your bad arguments will bother me no more. You also seem a lot more scummy this game. At least on LVII your arguments made sense, from an ape's perspective. Right now you just seem desperate. I, Z-BosoN, solemnly swear, to never defend myself from austin's scrutiny ever again.
On October 22 2012 05:24 Z-BosoN wrote: Austin, holy shit. For the first time ever, I've successfully agreed with every single thing in your post, every single thing. /applauds
Due to recent events though, Hapa is coming off pretty suspicious to me.
This is a selection of quotes from GSL3 and Liquid City. I paste them all here to demonstrate Z-Boson's ability, and indeed propensity, to throw in light-hearted comments. He's not all serious all the time.
Look at his filter here. Can you find that? At all? No, not really. It's completely absent. Arguably, this is it:
Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out
Right at the beginning. I find his attitude towards DP... not townie. There's a lack of interaction from Z-Bo towards DarthPunk that I wouldn't expect from townie Z-Bo.
On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote: Why not DarthPunk? He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
He finds him a 'good lynch', but he makes it clear that he's not using the referring to self as mislynch thing as scum. Is it that he's bitchy? Is that a scumtell? Who knows. He's "interested" to see how he goes in Day 2 though. The wording is just... ick.
On November 15 2012 08:21 Z-BosoN wrote: Had some internet problems.. Luckily it was on control C. In reply to marvs other post:
On November 15 2012 06:14 marvellosity wrote:
On November 15 2012 06:13 Z-BosoN wrote:
On November 15 2012 06:06 marvellosity wrote:
On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk? He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
i hate this. what's your read on him and why?
He can definitely be scum. The reasoning is above. I'd rather lynch Hopeless. Perhaps instead of "Why not DP?" just read "DP" and interpret that as a secondary assessment. I'd rather lynch Hopeless though, my post says it all. I find it interesting how you hated my bit on DP, instead of my bit on debears, your main lynch candidate. Is there anything else you want to add while you are at it? Do you agree with what I said?
I'm finding you kinda scummy all of a sudden actually.
"He can definitely be scum" is not a read, by the way. Anyone can definitely be scum.
Isn't it fucking obvious that I mean that to me he has a good chance of being scum, especially given what I've written on him? 10x better than your "I'm finding you kinda scummy" which adds shit to the thread. If Hopeless is a 10, DP is a 7, go with that. Try answering the question now? I phrased it very clearly and I find it important enough that I insist.
Anyways, Hopeless´s meta explanation makes sense, and that was my main issue with him. Right now I´d rather lynch DarthPunk. Gonna let marv finish to see if he will/will not change my mind.
##Unvote
There's weird things going on in this post. "If hopeless is a 10" to "his meta explanation makes sense".
Generally, given Z-Bo's intimate familiarity with DP's play and his meta, there seems to be no discernable effort to make any read on him on that basis. Z-Boson is calling DarthPunk scum right now, but there's no supporting evidence of games previously played. I don't buy it.
Also I bolded that other line where he says I should answer just because I find the wording completely unnatural. "I find it important enough that I insist".
None of this play looks like Z-Boson's town play.
When he is townie, he is very indecisive about who he wants to lynch. Just look at his filter in GSL3 or Liquid city. Liquid City his vote jumped around more times than I can count and with great uncertainty, and even his final vote he still seemed clueless. And in GSL3 he agonised for days on everyone before finally voting for someone.
Here there is no... communication with town, trying to figure things out properly. It's BAM, BlazingHand is scum. He pursues BlazingHand - and make no mistake, he can pursue very well as scum, check the filter I gave you. Then when BH is off the table, he comes back today with BAM, Hopeless is scum.
As quoted there's the absence of Z-bo interacting in a lighthearted manner with town that I am familiar with. His filter is short, with long posts, rather than longer, with lots of short posts figuring things out.
##Vote: Z-Boson
Therefore, I am switching my vote from bh who i still think is scummy, but isn't going to get lynched today, to zboson.
##Vote Z-boson
That's probably the safest route for scum. Why go ahead and dip yourself amongst a complete clusterfuck of people trying to figure shit out, when you can just sheep marv, gtfo, and feel all safe? He indicates he was present later on, when he says.
On November 15 2012 11:15 Crossfire99 wrote: Wow. Good job everyone who voted for him. I think that is first time I've ever seen a last minute vote switch work. I always thought they never worked. Good job. Time to go read his filter.
So yea, I'd be safest with lynching him tomorrow.
thrawn seems waaaaaay off his meta. He's made some long posts, trying to be all open and shit, but that doesn't give me a town read of him. Thrawn is usually much more investigative, and much more present as town. (See marv, I think this applies much better to thrawn than on me). I have to go soon, but I'll read him better when I get back.
Strongandbig is trying hard to be a grush57. That's pretty much it. Can't conclude shit from reading his filter. He's evidently aware of his meta as scum, and could very well be trying to do the opposite here, but imo he's beign completely useless.
marvellosity I still have to read his filter better. I didn't like the fact that he completely ignored my defense and asked me why I seemed so sure of everything, something he really didn't include in his original case. Don't want to lynch him day2 though. If he's scum, he's trying a loooot harder than on GSL.
On November 14 2012 05:14 Z-BosoN wrote: On iamp I hated the reason for which he voted on me, but I share marv's stance on how he's drawing out unnecessary attention. The only thing that actually bugs me is his interaction with BH. As a townie, if I agree with someone, the last thing I would be thinking is:
On November 14 2012 01:00 marvellosity wrote: Rock Band or Whose Line are recent town games of his.
do you know any of his scum games? the search function isn't helping me find all his games.
What debears mentions is his radical switch from >>Hunting BH<< to >>Agreeing with BH<<. Except that this post I quoted is immediately after his vote on me. Here, he still shows interest in finding out if BH is scum, someone he had just agreed with. That being said, he is being incredibly flip-floppy, which I'm finding extremely weird.
I don't think this is enough to peg him as scum though, I can imagine him as town being suspicious of everyone. I find BH's play to be much, much more appaling. I have only played one game with him, so I'm not super aware of his meta, but it is totally different than his Liquid City one. Here he has made one major case, a weak one at that, and established an unusally high amount of certainty on it, calling it "a masterpiece".
That being said, right now I'm interested in debears, Crossfire, and thrawn. Crossfire is rather obvious, he's not posted and is heading off towards a modkill/replacement. I'm not considering him a lynch choice until he actually decides to post.
debears has also raised my eyebrows in this start of the game. He's been extremely fluffy in the beggining, and no matter what his meta is, that's not pro-town. Also, I don't like the feel of his case against iamp. He's establishing himself on some of hapa's arguments, but does not deal with this:
On November 14 2012 02:53 marvellosity wrote: I don't understand why it's scum play.
1. Believes miller claim 2. Later decides he's scummy
The scum motivation is what? He wanted a case to jump on? Is that it?
Which to me feels like a natural step in accusing iamp of being scum. The most he's said is that he didn't agree with it, and I don't find that satisfactory at all given that he is pursuing a scumread. The only argument he added was "guilty conscience", to which I find very weak, as I don't find any motive for iamp to pursue something he doesn't think is strong.
Anyways, had debears actually voted based on that, I would have been much more suspicious. Right now he just has my eyebrows raised.
@debears I'd like you to expand a bit more on your read of iamp. 1) I get that you think he has bad reasoning for his switch. Why does this make him scummy? Bad reasoning =/= scummy unless it has scum motivation. What is the scum motivation of his actions? 2) Here you try to make this contrast:
1) He cares about how the town is viewing him 2) He doesn't believe his reasoning is that great for his vote -note the "well I think his actions speak louder". It's a weak statement. Not a strong one, (a strong one) which should be warranted when you change your read from town to scum in literally no time
I've mentioned this above, but I'd like you to answer it. Why would scum iamp establish a vote for which he himself believes is not based on good reasoning? I don't understand why you are finding this scummy. Interpret this as: me not buying it.
On November 17 2012 11:17 DarthPunk wrote: Here is SCUM Z-Boson from XXIV
On August 20 2012 12:25 Z-BosoN wrote: All right guys, some debriefing should take place. I agree that we shouldn't back off during the night. It is crucial we get it right this time. Let's see what we have:
YourHarry Extremely weird player. My main theory against him was that he was trying to do a lame bus on thrawn. Granted as thrawn was indeed vigi, this is not the case. However, his posts and comments generally are inconsistent, lack explanations, and keep changing. His posts are a diarrhea of WIFOM that I've decided are only here to confuse us with its vagueness, lack of clarity, and lack of purpose. Observe:
I am having second thoughts about Thrawn. First thing that doesn't make sense if Thrawn is scum: If Thrawn is indeed scum then he left that "bread crumb" post so that he can use that as evidence to mislead the town that he is vigilante. But Thrawn denied this post as the "bread crumb" post, and in his initial claim, he never even referenced this post in the first place...
Mega power WIFOM.
Second thing that I am not sure about is that, claiming vigilante is so dangerous for scum. One weak point in this line of thinking is that Thrawn did ask the mod to confirm that there could be more than one vigilante. I think it is possible that scum Thrawn DID ask the moderator in private prior to asking publicly that there could be more than one vigilante.
What is this supposed to implicate? Useless garbage.
STILL, whether or not there could be two vigilante... a counter vigilante claim would definitely have made Thrawn look suspicious. Would it not? I am not sure scum would have taken this risk.
He keeps babbling, and doesn't make a point. How in anyway is this post helping town? And we keep going:
But I am scared to unvote, because I will be the next person to be lynched after Thrawn
What is this supposed to mean? Is he a scum that wants us to think this or is he a townie that wants us to think that he is thinking... oh wait, WIFOM. This statement means CRAP.
... and more ....
I am not super confident in my scum read. Upon my reading just now, I found Jhyut case's scummy. Sheeping Thrawn's case here, but Jhyut did not care whether I am town or scum - he wanted to lynch me. I thought he was something else, but I guess I was wrong again. HE is also lurking pretty hard, so he may turn out to be scum
Crappety crap crap CRAP. He is randomly throwing around suspicions and not committing to anything. This in no conceivable way helps town.
My case against Golbat and Darth was based on my scum read on Thrawn. Not sure anymore.
Scumslip? How does he suddenly know that thrawn is not scum? Oh, that's right, he decided thrawn isn't scum with his brilliant and well thought-out argument, quoted above. I'm sure we can agree that his posts don't help the town and scream scum. Even though there was strong evidence that thrawn and YH were scum, due to the way they were playing it D1, I am still inclined to think he is scum. This requires much more thought, as we will have to be certain that we lynch a scum in the next day.
Jhuyt
He is a quiet and lurky player. He mentions possibilities, without compromise, and doesn't take a stance on anything.
The more I think of it the more I find that either Shady or Thrawn is scum. But since my basis of suspicion against Thrawn is basically gone I really can't vote for him. I think this post + Show Spoiler + coupled with Thrawn's reason to accuse Arch is enough for me too consider Shady as scum.
##Vote: Shady Sands
I have to go for the next couple of hours so I won't be here for the conclusion of the day, see ya later.
Bases himself off completely off of someone else's arguments, and announces he will have to leave. He then makes complains about how wishy-washy YourHarry is, says it is urgent that we lynch him, and starts to make shallow arguments on GK:
When I looked at the case GK made in this post I got the feeling that you might be scum, but I wasn't sure. When I couple that with your scumslip it makes more sense that he's right and therefore I think you're scum.
The benefit of the doubt line was one that I was considering to cut out of the post because it doesn't add anything and I'm pretty sure I misused the expression.
I should have said that while I do think you're scum I think that YH's behaviour is way scummier and so much more anti-town that a lynch on him is necessary so that we can have a clearer discussion.
But still considering YourHarry's wishy-washyness more scummy. Gets attacked by thrawn, who basically states the same things I'm saying right now, and is defended with weak and contentless posts. He simply doesn't take a solid stance on anyone (except maybe for YH). He's generally much more lurkier and gives off too few to work with.
Golbat Beastly Lurker. Joined on the thrawn bandwagon and disappeared. We should have lynched him a long time ago. This makes me understand why lurker policy needs to be so strong. If he was a civilian before, then we would be down a lurking civilian who was not helping at all. Now, however, we cannot afford another misslynch, and have to be more careful. But since he has barely any posts, it will be very hard to determine for sure what he is.
goodkarma and DarthPunk
I wanted to make sure that I wasn't skipping any details on the non-obvious choices. I've noticed some weird behavior on GK, which I've already mentioned. Since I've already gone through thrawn's filter, I can understand where GK could have found some reason to back off of thrawn. I don't think he is scum, as I can't think of why a scum would go ahead and say I'M SURE HES GUILTY, to backing off entirely. Scum generally take hesitant postures that lack commitment and conviction. I've read DarthPunk's filter carefully and wasn't able to detect anything too suspicious or compromising, as he has been making accusations and backing them up with well explained arguments. Also, both him and goodkarma have been making tons of pro-town and meaningful accusations. If one of them is mafia, it is not in this round that we will be able to lynch them unless we can pick up on something not yet noted.
Stutters and Obvious to come. I'm sleepy and have to wake up early tomorrow. Please, be active, let me know what you think of this post and contribute your own ideas and suspicions as well.
On August 17 2012 05:14 Z-BosoN wrote: My current lists of suspects stands as:
1) thrawn2112 2) YourHarry 3) Shady Sands
Due to all of my previous reasoning, and the fact that none of them have given me reason to retract my suspicions. However, I am very firm on my decision to execute lynchers. Day one is filled with circumstantial evidence and is very easy to make wrong conclusions, and the probability of a miss-lynch is very high. What we DO know for CERTAIN is that lurkers are way more prejudicial to the town, because we cannot have decent reads on them. This is a game of reasoning and deduction, but for that, we need DATA, INFORMATION, which lurkers fail to provide. For this first day, since I don't think any of the suspicions so far are conclusive, I will vote for a lurker. We have Golbat , Stutters, and JHuyt who have been balls-out lurkers. I say we should lynch one of those. Now, speaking for myself, how will I choose? Let's take a brief look at their history:
Golbat Has said nothing. Has two posts. He is lurker number one. He briefly accused thrawn with little evidence, threw some dirt on Shady, YourHarry and Solar. If we lynch him and he turns out townie, we will not have any new leads from that information, but will be down a useless townie. If we lynch him and he turns out scum, that will be great for us, but we will still have no leads. His accusations could just as easily be his scum buddies due to the fact that he hasn't done any sort of analysis on anybody. I would go even so far as to think that he will be mod-killed, due to not voting. If he suddenly posts now, we will have VERY strong reason to lynch him the next day, because posting some crap early on and disappearing until close to the deadline is a Strong Strong indicator of SCUM.
Onward.
Stutters He begins by agreeing that the discussion regarding SK is a waste of time he doesn't raise suspicion, doesn't do any investigative move, just says that and goes on to tell Solar to post better. Then he makes a longer post, telling Solar once again to stop with the trolling (which is fine, he was getting annoying), and making a small, non-compromising case against Shady. States some facts, then moves on, without taking an aggressive stance. Asks why getting filters is necessary (I had already mentioned this...). And just like that, he's gone. Basically he is on the same boat as Golbat. If we lynch him and he turns out townie, we will have lynched a semi-useless townie. If we lynch him and he turns out scum, great! But still no real info.
So that leaves... JHyut Who begins with similar obvious cases against Solar, Shady, and YourHarry. Escapes having to post anything else saying "I'm sorry, but I don't think I can be of any more use until new evidence is posted.". Then goes on to FOS thrawn, not using any original evidence. Without explaining anything, says that Archrun was not scum, says that thrawn is not scum, then votes for Shady Sands, without explaining, and just like that he's gone.
If we lynch him and he turns out townie, then thrawn will have some weight off his shoulders. He would have ignored accusing a greenie based on his lack of observation. Golbat will look about the same, because he was ignored alongside an innocent and we may figure something out on ArchRun as well (I still have to read more carefully his posts). If we lynch him and he turns out scum, Archrun and thrawn2112 will not look so good. He INSTANTLY dropped his suspicion of both these players, and this is resonated by my case against Thrawn, where I note a fishy situation between thrawn and either golbat,archrun and/or jhuyt. Here is a snippet so you guys don't have to go all the way back:
You made an FOS on Archrun by saying that he only had made 3 posts and had no scumhunting. However, you completely ignored Golbat, who only has 2 posts with one-dimensional scumhunting claims, being that the FIRST thing he says is that you are the scummiest player, to which you respond with:
Is this something I need to defend myself on? I am not sober right now so I don't think I could type a clear response till I wake up. Going to sleep now, I hope to wake up and see some more posts.
And you don't mention it again. This seems to me to be a clear, 100% dodge. You give IRL excuses and forget about it, even hinting that you don't feel the need to answer it. You ignore Golbat not once, but twice. A townie thrawn would definitely bother defending himself to a direct attack such as that, and would try to policy-lynch both Golbat and ArchRun.
However, you also didn't call JHyut, who also has 2 posts and even worse in quality than both the mentioned posters. Why mention only ArchRun and not Golbat, who called you out or JHyut? Either this is incredibly sloppy play, or you have a scum partner. If we assume the latter, then I can only think of:
1) You are trying to distract people from Golbat by making other accusations, and completely ignored JHyut. 2) You are trying to bus your partner ArchRun so as to draw away suspicion from yourself in case he comes up red. And, you completely ignored JHyut and Golbat. 3) You don't want to call out three people at once for whatever reason and chose someone other than your scum partner.
I find this Highly Suspicious.
That being said, I think right now the general lurkyness of JHuyt + the lack of quality of his posts + this weird switch of votes + his affiliation with Golbat and the amount of information we can make out if he is lynched, I will go with
##Vote JHuyt
PS: I noticed I got sniped. Dangerous timing there, Stutters. I will not bother changing my post, because I have to head out, but I think I will be able to log on near the deadline. Hope I sounded reasonable enough.
Great job increasing the discussion in this eery end of D1!
Here is Z-Boson this game
On November 16 2012 03:34 Z-BosoN wrote: Allright, out of the bunch, I'd be happiest with a crossfire lynch. I don't doubt his internet connection problems, but my main problems are of these two posts:
On November 14 2012 14:11 Crossfire99 wrote: I never want to get that behind ever again. Ugh. That was painful. So many useless posts. I can see why blazing really hated me for posting so much fluff in WLIIA. That's what makes it so weird this game, though. He's posted so much stuff that doesn't matter and just takes up space. In WLIIA, he came down on me so hard because of the amount of fluff I posted. He clearly knows it is anti-town, yet still does it here. I don't understand it at all. If he hadn't claimed jailkeeper (which I'm still not sure I buy), I probably would be voting for him right now. I'm willing to give him a little time to shape up his posting, but if he hasn't done it by then, I want to lynch him.
I am also very confused by strong. I played with him both when he was town and scum, and he never played like this. I believe someone was talking about him possibly changing his meta because it was too obvious when he was scum. Basically he is playing weirdly and has a decent number of fluff posts. This makes me suspicious of him. I find him less scummy than blazing, though.
Other than that though, I just need to digest everything. I have a serious headache now after reading all of that. If you want me to respond to something ask me a question. Otherwise I'll probably come in here sometime after I wake up tomorrow and comment on the top cases. I don't know of any other way of making sense of everything that is happening without going crazy.
Oh and for anyone who is wondering why I chose blazing and strong to single out: blazing really stuck out with the amount of fluff he's been posting plus I know how he plays town because he just did it in WLIIA; as for strong , I've played with him in my last two games, plus I just figured out that he was scum in our last game, WLIIA, so his play is fresh on my mind.
Bolded I read as: "look at me guys!!! I'm trying super hard to read everything!!" Underlined I read as an overexplanation to him posting his reads, which I find pretty scummy. He does that again here:
On November 15 2012 10:35 Crossfire99 wrote:
On November 15 2012 10:25 iamperfection wrote: Crossfire if you run away right now i will be super pissed the next 30 or so min of your belong in this thread right now.
I am freaking in this thread. I have to catch up on a lot of stuff. I am sorry I wasn't here. I planned to be here and spend time on this game, but then my internet crapped out. I don't know how else I can apologize for this.
On November 15 2012 08:58 marvellosity wrote: Z-Boson
Metarelated stuff. Let's a gogo. First of all, here's a sample post from him playing scum in Newbie XXIV. You'll have to excuse the length, but the point is it's length and effort.
Well that was quick. Let me see if I understand. Now, in day 3, in a MYLO situation, you propose to.
On August 21 2012 09:16 goodkarma wrote: Okay then. We need to be active today, and I'm wasting no time in getting started:
@Golbat:
You have a lot of explaining to do for your lurking, so please start there. Also, if you would kindly explain this quote:
On August 18 2012 15:59 Golbat wrote:
On August 18 2012 15:50 DarthPunk wrote:
On August 18 2012 15:32 Golbat wrote:
On August 18 2012 15:19 DarthPunk wrote:
On August 18 2012 15:10 Golbat wrote:
On August 18 2012 12:55 goodkarma wrote: @YourHarry:
Any suggestions as to who this someone else is that we should lynch?
My first thoughts are either Orchrow or you.
You seem to be very interested in keeping thrawn alive as long as possible... I suggest you start making some meaningful suggestions as to who you feel looks scummier. And it would also be helpful if you commented on people's most recent cases against thrawn, Orchrow, and yourself instead of continuing to strive to keep Thrawn alive.
There are situations here where the vigi still shouldn't claim. Like what if there is an sk, but the vigi hasn't used his shot yet? A vigi counter claim here would be terrible, as he could wind up rb'ed by scum and NK'ed before he can do anything.
And if we wait, who's to say town doesn't get a successful medic save or rb? Or that scum or the sk (if he exists) doesn't just sit back and do nothing for one night? There's a few different ways that there could be an sk but fewer than two night kills.
Waiting achieves nothing. My read, and the read of several of us here, is that thrawn is scum.It's time for him to go. Read through the case points against him, and show us why you feel he might be town. It's more productive than your WIFOM defense of thrawn you're presenting now.
I am in agreement that we should just lynch thrawn here. We seem to have caught a scum or even two, I think if thrawn flips scum then YH is almost certainly scum.
You are lurking pretty hard buddy. I would also like to ask Ochrow, solarsail Z-Boson and Stutters to increase their contributions.
I agree i'm lurking, but I feel that I have at least contributed well for my sparse filter. I made my case on thrawn, and cast my vote. When I see something worth discussing I mention it. I may not be living in the thread as hard as you, harry or thrawn, but at least I've contributed. What do you suggest I do to be less "lurky"? Make a shit case on someone in a misguided attempt to look active? Last game it got me lynched and cost town a vigi shot.
I'll go over the thread again and see if anything catches my eye, but I don't really see a case I can make that hasn't already been made ATM. At the very least i'll prod some people in my next couple posts.
Why so defensive? I understand that you got lynched for being over eager in XXII but your posting is markedly different than what I experienced there (although you were only alive for 24 hours so not much of a meta to read ) my post was not a personal attack but rather a call to all lurkers to contribute something.
Apologies. I didn't mean to come off as defensive, just that I'm not intentionally lurking, just not posting uselessly. in my last game I died before I could make a big contribution, and I just want to help catch a scum before I die this game. Now is the time to step it up I guess.
I've already explained what I felt was scummy about this, but in case you need a reminder:
You seem more interested in staying alive right now than in actually scumhunting. "Not posting uselessly" is not an excuse for not posting at all. Even one one-line post explaining your absence would have been useful at this point, and you wouldn't even contribute that.
You argue to not be lurking intentionally, but I would argue that yes, lurking for 48 hours is rather intentional. There's no way that you haven't thought up anything worthwhile in that time unless if between then and now you have forgotten altogether about this thread. And why would you do that if you want to "make a big contribution" that leads to the lynch of a scum?
One more question: Why did you tunnel Thrawn so hard?
##Vote: Golbat
Wait a minute. This is do or die for the town. You plan to consolidate your vote on someone who barely has any information on him and has been a hardcore lurker since day one? Because he tunneled thrawn, as if you didn't? Oh wait, that's right, you had a very sudden change of heart. But then, you go on and say that:
(...)And finally there's the final vote count for day 2. I currently believe the Thrawn mislynch had heavy scum support. One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support. If you look at the votes, and see where those who have established themselves as town have voted, I'm sure you'll agree the YourHarry lynch had some reputable town support behind it. And all of the current scum suspects are on the Thrawn mislynch.:
Well that's a very convenient argument, to go along with your name not being on that list. Drop in the bomb, wait for people to sheep you, then escape, no compromises. It's also ironic you didn't think of it before, when everybody wanted Shady Sands dead, who was the top poster at the moment. I'll go ahead and post the day one votes.
Same argument you used. Look at that, everyone on ShadySands list must be quite the suspects of being scum. Because, "One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support."
Except that he wasn't scum was he? This is because this argument is very weak. It only becomes suspicious when one target has a LOT of scumminess on him and a LOT of posts against him while the other looks so innocent and barely has anything substatial on him. This is not the case, because thrawn had a huge wall of text against him, not only the one you posted, but also the one that I did as well. DP also thought he was scum, and I will agree that the case against thrawn was fairly powerful.
DAY ONE should have been the time we should have lynched lurkers. DAY TWO, maybe. Not day 3, with a do or die scenario, against someone who, as Obvious pointed out, is clearly not giving a rat's ass about this game. This day will be the target with the greatest case against him. I really don't like how quick it was for you to vote on golbat, and how quick some people seemed to sheep you.
Regarding YourHarry, you went from him possibly being your third suspect to him being your main suspect with this post:
On August 21 2012 17:59 goodkarma wrote: Regarding YourHarry:
Sometimes the most obvious scum is the hardest to spot. YourHarry has a "meta" for sporadic and unpredictable play. But however strange, or different, or unpredictable his play is, if you were to look at the motivation behind his play, you can determine his alignment. With YourHarry, actions speak louder than words:
-First, YourHarry is fond of withholding information from us. YourHarry starts the game by making a weak WIFOM case on me, claiming if I'm not a mason I'm scum. He withholds his read on me for a long time until pressured to provide it, and while here maybe you could argue he had some justification, this is a recurring theme. Over and over again he's done this. With this "mason case," with vote swapping history, with providing reads on certain people (most recently, Golbat). This behavior is clearly anti-town. Obviously withholding information would be advantageous for scum as it could make it harder for others to get a good read on him. Could a townie also do this? Maybe, but this is just the tip of the iceberg.
-YourHarry is a fan of last-minute vote swapping. He has now twice last minute switched his vote to secure the mislynch of the top candidate. This behavior simply can't be ignored anymore. There is clear scum motivation here.
-The use of WIFOM first, actual use of reasoning when pressured later. He already did that today with Golbat. He started today with soft defending him, and then decides he will actually "read his filter." I'll say that again: only after defending Golbat with WIFOM does he decide it's a good idea to read his filter. Then, finally, he decides to actually present a case which is in fact against Golbat. In other words, he's demonstrated a lack of interest in actually contributing meaningfully to scumhunting.
-On top of this, today he has focused a large degree of effort on getting people to role claim. If my theory on scum's motive for the night kills is to be believed, YourHarry is trying to draw important town roles out of hiding as easy scum targets.
There's loads of scum motivation to be seen behind YourHarry's actions, and there are several cases that have already been made against him. Yet somehow he seems to have avoided getting lynched. My biggest issue with lynching him, and why he hasn't been higher on my "scum reads," has been that his play is consistently bad, and it would be easy to mislynch a town YourHarry. But if you look at his actions, they fit a scum agenda.
And finally there's the final vote count for day 2. I currently believe the Thrawn mislynch had heavy scum support. One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support. If you look at the votes, and see where those who have established themselves as town have voted, I'm sure you'll agree the YourHarry lynch had some reputable town support behind it. And all of the current scum suspects are on the Thrawn mislynch.:
Directly from the official end of day 2 post (minus the blue text): thrawn2112, as VisceraEyes, vigilante, was lynched!
I encourage everyone to put together their reads, as there's still time for you to express your viewpoints before we consolidate our vote in the last 24 hours of the day. And obviously supporting or dissenting case points towards this case would be much appreciated.
Your arguments are nothing new, it's what has been stated on YourHarry since the beggining of time. The only thing new that you add is that he is suspiciously wanting everyone to roleclaim. But why do you focus on him, and blatantly ignore DarthPunk's same remark:
On August 21 2012 13:49 DarthPunk wrote:
On August 21 2012 13:24 YourHarry wrote: Good point on scums not having time to respond to your latest post. But there were common suspicions between Golbat and Jhyut that were posted hours before deadline:
Z-boson's suspect list went: me, Jhyut, Golbat Darth's suspect list: Golbat, Jhyut, Solar GK's suspect list: Golbat, Jhyut, Obvious
Maybe WIFOM. But to me, I still can't get my head around scum Golbat lynching town Jhyut, who seemed to be scum Golbat's only way out.
Regards to no lynching, the only caveat for choosing to lynch today rather than tomorrow is the medic save. But if we decide to go ahead with our lynch today, I think claiming today is a good idea. We NEED a scum lynch today. And everyone claiming would make that much easier.
Sorry I am kind of busy and am not following the thread right now. but I agree with a mass claim. we are at the stage of the game where we need as much info as possible because we cannot afford a mistake. I feel really out of my depth here, scum are either afk winning or playing really well.
The same guy in which you solemnly confided your trust in your "will":
(...)I have played with DarthPunk before, and I’ve seen his scum play. He has been 10 times more proactive than he was in that game about sharing scum reads and I am convinced he is legitimately searching for scum this time around. Add to that that he’s come independently to similar reads as myself, and I feel he is my strongest town read right now. So all of you get behind him as your leader and consolidate your vote under him. There is a small (note: slim) chance that he’s scum, but you’re going to have to live with that. To have a chance of winning town needs to consolidate its vote and this is the best way to do this. Come the next night, I leave it to Darthpunk to leave his successor in a will similar to this one should he also get NK’ed.
Also, you say these incredibly serious accusations:
(...)There's loads of scum motivation to be seen behind YourHarry's actions, and there are several cases that have already been made against him. Yet somehow he seems to have avoided getting lynched. My biggest issue with lynching him, and why he hasn't been higher on my "scum reads," has been that his play is consistently bad, and it would be easy to mislynch a town YourHarry. But if you look at his actions, they fit a scum agenda.
And you don't bother explaining what you mean. You just sheep around with the main case that has already been made, add something meaningless (if you want to give it meaning, please go ahead and attack DarthPunk as well), then hint at the most serious accusations you can possibly make and don't go ahead and explain what you mean.
I agree wholeheartedly that YourHarry is scum, you can go ahead and check that in my filter , but the way you write this and the arguments you use make me feel very suspicious that you may be scum as well. Now I see that the only reason I had lifted my suspicions of you were mainly WIFOM, but your latest actions have definitely raised my eyebrows. Right now is the easiest time for a scum to slip, because any small mistake now will not slip by so easily.
One more thing, you say that the night kills were not discussed in detail. Read my filter, if you will. Actually this night's night kills is what is giving me additional ammo on YH. That soon to come.
On October 21 2012 13:13 DarthPunk wrote: Also his defense each time is oh you must be scum and trying to trick me. Nothing townie about it. And your 'meta' read is bleh.
On October 22 2012 00:52 DarthPunk wrote: Also ZB. Postgame I would like to go through how you make such accurate reads on me all the time. It get's frustrating as scum. (and also hilarious)
Oh-oh. This obviously-I'm-town post comes mostly from scum DP. Don't get so confident, I'm not dead sure on you yet!
On October 22 2012 01:08 Z-BosoN wrote: Sniped by austin. There we are, finally. Now waiting for the two days of unforgiving tunneling from him Hello Keirathi! How goes your scum life? Any thoughts you would like to trouble us with?
On October 22 2012 03:53 Z-BosoN wrote: k k Well, you really think he is scum and should insta-die before he's even had a chance to defend himself? I'm uncomfortable sending him to his grave like this... I'd like to know if you are scum. Think about it. It's the pro-town thing to do. If you are scum, it's pro-town because town will lynch a scum. If you are town, then it's pro-town that we don't have to kill you. Tell us
On October 02 2012 11:04 Z-BosoN wrote: Omfg austin really loves me. I'm just going to ignore you this time, I make an oath that your bad arguments will bother me no more. You also seem a lot more scummy this game. At least on LVII your arguments made sense, from an ape's perspective. Right now you just seem desperate. I, Z-BosoN, solemnly swear, to never defend myself from austin's scrutiny ever again.
On October 22 2012 05:24 Z-BosoN wrote: Austin, holy shit. For the first time ever, I've successfully agreed with every single thing in your post, every single thing. /applauds
Due to recent events though, Hapa is coming off pretty suspicious to me.
This is a selection of quotes from GSL3 and Liquid City. I paste them all here to demonstrate Z-Boson's ability, and indeed propensity, to throw in light-hearted comments. He's not all serious all the time.
Look at his filter here. Can you find that? At all? No, not really. It's completely absent. Arguably, this is it:
Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out
Right at the beginning. I find his attitude towards DP... not townie. There's a lack of interaction from Z-Bo towards DarthPunk that I wouldn't expect from townie Z-Bo.
On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote: Why not DarthPunk? He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
He finds him a 'good lynch', but he makes it clear that he's not using the referring to self as mislynch thing as scum. Is it that he's bitchy? Is that a scumtell? Who knows. He's "interested" to see how he goes in Day 2 though. The wording is just... ick.
On November 15 2012 08:21 Z-BosoN wrote: Had some internet problems.. Luckily it was on control C. In reply to marvs other post:
On November 15 2012 06:14 marvellosity wrote:
On November 15 2012 06:13 Z-BosoN wrote:
On November 15 2012 06:06 marvellosity wrote:
On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk? He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
i hate this. what's your read on him and why?
He can definitely be scum. The reasoning is above. I'd rather lynch Hopeless. Perhaps instead of "Why not DP?" just read "DP" and interpret that as a secondary assessment. I'd rather lynch Hopeless though, my post says it all. I find it interesting how you hated my bit on DP, instead of my bit on debears, your main lynch candidate. Is there anything else you want to add while you are at it? Do you agree with what I said?
I'm finding you kinda scummy all of a sudden actually.
"He can definitely be scum" is not a read, by the way. Anyone can definitely be scum.
Isn't it fucking obvious that I mean that to me he has a good chance of being scum, especially given what I've written on him? 10x better than your "I'm finding you kinda scummy" which adds shit to the thread. If Hopeless is a 10, DP is a 7, go with that. Try answering the question now? I phrased it very clearly and I find it important enough that I insist.
Anyways, Hopeless´s meta explanation makes sense, and that was my main issue with him. Right now I´d rather lynch DarthPunk. Gonna let marv finish to see if he will/will not change my mind.
##Unvote
There's weird things going on in this post. "If hopeless is a 10" to "his meta explanation makes sense".
Generally, given Z-Bo's intimate familiarity with DP's play and his meta, there seems to be no discernable effort to make any read on him on that basis. Z-Boson is calling DarthPunk scum right now, but there's no supporting evidence of games previously played. I don't buy it.
Also I bolded that other line where he says I should answer just because I find the wording completely unnatural. "I find it important enough that I insist".
None of this play looks like Z-Boson's town play.
When he is townie, he is very indecisive about who he wants to lynch. Just look at his filter in GSL3 or Liquid city. Liquid City his vote jumped around more times than I can count and with great uncertainty, and even his final vote he still seemed clueless. And in GSL3 he agonised for days on everyone before finally voting for someone.
Here there is no... communication with town, trying to figure things out properly. It's BAM, BlazingHand is scum. He pursues BlazingHand - and make no mistake, he can pursue very well as scum, check the filter I gave you. Then when BH is off the table, he comes back today with BAM, Hopeless is scum.
As quoted there's the absence of Z-bo interacting in a lighthearted manner with town that I am familiar with. His filter is short, with long posts, rather than longer, with lots of short posts figuring things out.
##Vote: Z-Boson
Therefore, I am switching my vote from bh who i still think is scummy, but isn't going to get lynched today, to zboson.
##Vote Z-boson
That's probably the safest route for scum. Why go ahead and dip yourself amongst a complete clusterfuck of people trying to figure shit out, when you can just sheep marv, gtfo, and feel all safe? He indicates he was present later on, when he says.
On November 15 2012 11:15 Crossfire99 wrote: Wow. Good job everyone who voted for him. I think that is first time I've ever seen a last minute vote switch work. I always thought they never worked. Good job. Time to go read his filter.
So yea, I'd be safest with lynching him tomorrow.
thrawn seems waaaaaay off his meta. He's made some long posts, trying to be all open and shit, but that doesn't give me a town read of him. Thrawn is usually much more investigative, and much more present as town. (See marv, I think this applies much better to thrawn than on me). I have to go soon, but I'll read him better when I get back.
Strongandbig is trying hard to be a grush57. That's pretty much it. Can't conclude shit from reading his filter. He's evidently aware of his meta as scum, and could very well be trying to do the opposite here, but imo he's beign completely useless.
marvellosity I still have to read his filter better. I didn't like the fact that he completely ignored my defense and asked me why I seemed so sure of everything, something he really didn't include in his original case. Don't want to lynch him day2 though. If he's scum, he's trying a loooot harder than on GSL.
On November 14 2012 05:14 Z-BosoN wrote: On iamp I hated the reason for which he voted on me, but I share marv's stance on how he's drawing out unnecessary attention. The only thing that actually bugs me is his interaction with BH. As a townie, if I agree with someone, the last thing I would be thinking is:
On November 14 2012 01:02 iamperfection wrote:
On November 14 2012 01:00 marvellosity wrote: Rock Band or Whose Line are recent town games of his.
do you know any of his scum games? the search function isn't helping me find all his games.
What debears mentions is his radical switch from >>Hunting BH<< to >>Agreeing with BH<<. Except that this post I quoted is immediately after his vote on me. Here, he still shows interest in finding out if BH is scum, someone he had just agreed with. That being said, he is being incredibly flip-floppy, which I'm finding extremely weird.
I don't think this is enough to peg him as scum though, I can imagine him as town being suspicious of everyone. I find BH's play to be much, much more appaling. I have only played one game with him, so I'm not super aware of his meta, but it is totally different than his Liquid City one. Here he has made one major case, a weak one at that, and established an unusally high amount of certainty on it, calling it "a masterpiece".
That being said, right now I'm interested in debears, Crossfire, and thrawn. Crossfire is rather obvious, he's not posted and is heading off towards a modkill/replacement. I'm not considering him a lynch choice until he actually decides to post.
debears has also raised my eyebrows in this start of the game. He's been extremely fluffy in the beggining, and no matter what his meta is, that's not pro-town. Also, I don't like the feel of his case against iamp. He's establishing himself on some of hapa's arguments, but does not deal with this:
On November 14 2012 02:53 marvellosity wrote: I don't understand why it's scum play.
1. Believes miller claim 2. Later decides he's scummy
The scum motivation is what? He wanted a case to jump on? Is that it?
Which to me feels like a natural step in accusing iamp of being scum. The most he's said is that he didn't agree with it, and I don't find that satisfactory at all given that he is pursuing a scumread. The only argument he added was "guilty conscience", to which I find very weak, as I don't find any motive for iamp to pursue something he doesn't think is strong.
Anyways, had debears actually voted based on that, I would have been much more suspicious. Right now he just has my eyebrows raised.
@debears I'd like you to expand a bit more on your read of iamp. 1) I get that you think he has bad reasoning for his switch. Why does this make him scummy? Bad reasoning =/= scummy unless it has scum motivation. What is the scum motivation of his actions? 2) Here you try to make this contrast:
1) He cares about how the town is viewing him 2) He doesn't believe his reasoning is that great for his vote -note the "well I think his actions speak louder". It's a weak statement. Not a strong one, (a strong one) which should be warranted when you change your read from town to scum in literally no time
I've mentioned this above, but I'd like you to answer it. Why would scum iamp establish a vote for which he himself believes is not based on good reasoning? I don't understand why you are finding this scummy. Interpret this as: me not buying it.
Now tell me that this is Town ZB and not scum ZB.
You'll also note his town play (GSL III) is totes different
Yes. His town play is very, very different in pretty much the exact way you mentioned in your case against him. There is no doubt in my mind that ZB is the last scum.
On November 17 2012 11:16 Z-BosoN wrote: Allright one more.
DP, you're full of shit, I don't post lists as scum. WIFOM my godamn buttocks, it's not like I suddenly decided Hapa was scum. Just. Fucking. Think. About. What. I. Said. On. My. Meta. And. Realize. It's. The. Most. Fucking. Reasonable. Explanation. There. Is. As. I. SHOWED. I. Was. Aware. I. Was. Posting. Less.
See if you can manage to not ignore that next time around.
DONE.
Onwards.
How embarrassing the post directly beneath this must be for you then.
On November 17 2012 15:02 DarthPunk wrote: We are not lynching BH until MAYBE after ZB DJO Clarity S&B are all dead. Continuing on that tangent is anti town.
He has already 2 votes and debears has voted him during the exchange between S&B and BH. I'm going to push his lynch because you are wrong and I think I'm right. I don't care if I die in the process because we can afford some mislynch and you are going to understand that all my cases were genuine when I flip.
Do you not understand that you are almost certainly lynching a blue?
On November 17 2012 15:02 DarthPunk wrote: We are not lynching BH until MAYBE after ZB DJO Clarity S&B are all dead. Continuing on that tangent is anti town.
He has already 2 votes and debears has voted him during the exchange between S&B and BH. I'm going to push his lynch because you are wrong and I think I'm right. I don't care if I die in the process because we can afford some mislynch and you are going to understand that all my cases were genuine when I flip.
Do you not understand that you are almost certainly lynching a blue?
Does he behave like town ? No. As I've explained, there is only 40% chances for us to have a jailkeeper. It's far from being almost certain that he is indeed jailkeeper.
ZB is far far scummier than anyone else right now. He claimed miller. Usually that should be enough to lynch him right there. He very likely tried to WIFOM around scum HAPA in order to make him look good if ZB flipped red. The meta is fucking damning on top of it all.
Lynching a Blue claim is newb play and is fucking stupid. You are being fucking stupid and anti town for pursuing this.
On November 17 2012 15:29 Djodref wrote: @ DarthPunk
Let's look at the two following players
Blazinghands
uncontested JK claim
lynched Hapa
shows no sign of town play
Yet he is the last on your lynch list
Z-BosoN
uncontested miller claim
lynched Hapa
his meta speaks strongly against him but his defense for this makes sense
You want to lynch him today
The probability for us to have a miller is roughly the same than the probability for us to have a JK. They both couldn't confirm their claims by any actions. Why can you not understand this ?
On November 17 2012 15:52 Djodref wrote: EBWOP: Please remember the Dandel Ion fakeclaim in NMM XXIX. The natural thing for a roleblocker is to fakeclaim jailkeeper.
Dandel Ion was mafia roleblocker in that game -> + Show Spoiler +
On October 30 2012 05:32 Dandel Ion wrote: Okay, I'll make it easier on y'all
I am Honda, some fat guy. AKA the roleblocker.
Why am I claiming now? Should be obvious - I don't want to get mislynched, and that's what seems to be about to happen.
I actually forgot about the crumb at day 1 at first, and I only remembered the next morning that I should've crumbed it, which is why it's a bit later, and not in my first batch of posts. Rectifying this is quite literaly the first thing I do, then:link
On October 25 2012 19:23 Dandel Ion wrote: Right on, I'M Back.
[blablaba]
Bolded. Not my brightest moment, but I was tired and couldn't come up with a better way to incorporate that. I also majorly stressed out about how easy that seems to spot, but it appears nobody did. Maybe the tricky "splitting R and B" is actually amazing.
My night action was roleblocking Kush. He was my strongest scumread, and while it was unlikely even then, that scum would send Kush to kill, frankly, I just had no idea who else to block. I'm no JK, so I can't save people (I wouldn't have guessed Sylver anyways, so w/e)
Context: It's night, I had posted my case on Kush. His response to it was saying "it's bad". That's it. After he posts his nonsense about how he won't be nightkilled now (something he does like to post as scum), I decide to roleblock him. Link
On October 28 2012 00:03 Dandel Ion wrote: So you're saying, his meta is actually the same to you? After you tried to make it out as if there was some huge meta divergence?
Right. I call Bullshit, Kushyboy.
Pretty straightforward. To keep it in line with the first crumb, I capitalized the B again. ((I also almost never call people by "wrong" names ingame, except for situations like this, or if I'm really sure they are scum. Both applied here. But you can take that or leave it, it doesn't matter)) Nothing happened that made me want to change that, so I stuck with it.
Why I was so fixated on Djo being the SK: Because, and this part is actually not the best argument, because it's not IMPOSSIBLE, just unlikely, but I thought JK+Cop+RB+Vig would be too much blue, so I practically eliminated the possibility of a Vig. and I got VERY leery of how Djo randomly jumped into the thread and started a NK speculation (in itself bad enough, since it's little more than fluff) AND started talking like it was a 100% certainity that Sylver was the scum KP AND he found a reason why Sylver was killed in, like, ~10 minutes after the flip (this was pointed out by somebody else, can't remember who).
So where does this leave us? (from my perspective) Djo is still scum. Alsn made a case on me, so I feel the need to OMGUS him. He's also currently in the process of setting up Cheese as his next lynch, but I'm not sure where that puts him, since Cheese is null to me. Roco pretty much claimed scum by sheeping onto the current case, no reasons given. Then he vanished into thin air again. His actions stink like he was told what to do in a QT. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't even read the thread himself. No matter what, he's an ABSOLUTE liability, even if he should actually be town.
Nackht is looking more townish now, although the reasons why he finds Cheese scummy still elude me. Frankly, I didn't really understand that post. The reasons for Alsn are even more obscure, cause he didn't give any, looks like. Cheese is still pretty null to me. I'll have to read nackht's post some more and try to make sense of it...
debears is likely town, though it's strange how he defends me so hard just based on meta. Honestly though, at this point, I don't have a problem with it. He dug all that stuff up (A for effort) and actually thinks about the game, unlike many others in here.
Rad has given me no reason to not read him town, still. I believe his Vig claim, no matter the implications on the setup. Plus, since he claimed the shot, it'd be suicide for him to shoot somebody else. If he's actually SK, then he's pretty damn good at this game.
I am also seriously pissed that nobody actually even aknowledged my defense, and Djo just spammed 2+ pages full of WIFOM bullshit oneliners instead. I have, to this point, not seen an actual REASON why I'm supposed to be scum, and I didn't want to claim just because nobody reads the thread.
Also, really cool how nobody is even in the thread anymore. Guess I shoulda posted this even earlier...
He Claimed ROLEBLOCKER in that game. If there is a Serial killer claiming JK as mafia is SUICIDAL claming JK with a vig is SUICIDAL.
and the fact that you are making comparisons between a miller claim and a Jailkeeper claim is laughable. Add to that. ZB is far scummier. He is a scummy MILLER CLAIM. With META EVIDENCE. What part of that is the same as a bad (not scummy) jail keeper?
On November 18 2012 02:03 debears wrote: 1) miller claim is a null tell 2) bh claimed because he's an idiot or scum. You're trying to take credit for it? Lol 3) wifomwfiomwifom 4) wifomwifomwifom 5) exactly. If you were town trying to survive, why wouldnt you vote for someone you realistically would believe would be lynched? If you were scum, you couldve thougjt it would help clear hapa if yoi got lynched with your vote on him
On October 07 2012 16:23 debears wrote: Aright guys, I'm gonna put something new into the thread. Considering that Djo and Z-Bo are pretty much confirmed at this point, I was wondering why we are having so much trouble this game with finding the last mafia. My conclusions: The last mafia is playing a hell of a game. Looking at this, I've been wondering who is capable of this. At this point, I'd see Z-Bo, SDM, and SS. Z-Bo is confirmed. SS has said some scummy things and is at threat of being lynched.
However, one person has managed to avoid the spotlight throughout the whole game. He has not had anyone actually attack (besides Z-Bo day 1, but that was an argument over the validity of my defense of SDM early).
That person is SDM. Recently, his refusal to vote me in the lynch set off some alarms in my head. I've looked through his filter and found some things that don't make townie sense.
The Association with Kush
After SDM hardcore shut down kush and voted kush, pointing out multiple scumslips, this is all that kush had to say to him
On September 29 2012 06:33 kushm4sta wrote: sdm you make no sense. I tried hard not to make scumslips last game. this game I did not. because I am not scum.
I don't know if any of you guys have had this experience but when everyone wants to lynch you and you are definitely going to get lynxhed, it just feels like why am I going to waste my time writing cases and making arguments for this shitty town. that's gonna kill me anyway. I'm actually starting to hope I get lynched to teach town a lesson.. all scums put your votes right here. easiest d1 ever I hope you guys win.
Notice how kush does not flame, OMGUS, or insult SDM in any manner here. This is the only time kush addresses Sonic, and he does it in a neutral manner. Compare that to the reactions of kush to Dp (town), Z-Bo (town), and Stutters (town) when they all accused him. To me, Kush made a defense. The only neutral reaction he had to his early accusers is SDM. What this indicates to me is that kush was expecting SDM to attack him, making his post not a reaction but a response to an accusation he knew knew was coming.
On September 30 2012 04:59 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:In my mind these are good reasons to be suspicious of Debears. We most certainly need to push for more information from other players as well though. If XXVII thaught me anything it was that I have a tendency to get way overconfident in my reads.
This is actually wrong. If anything, it should have taught SDM to be more confident in his reads. He had me pinned down but let me off the hook last game. He stopped pursuing me because of a misunderstanding of thrawn's lynch the last lurker comment.
On October 04 2012 01:46 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: Yeah I agree. I don't think it's guaranteed, overconfidence is a bitch, but it looks like a good start.
Another quote talking about overconfidence. This is about not getting too confident in the endgame and losing because of it. The weird thing is that SDM disappeared after the lynch, on a weekend when he should have more time than the week. Yet, he hasn't posted anything. Is he overconfident? Seems like it. I don't know why either since the whole town has been spinning around in circles since the kush lynch.
Time and Indecision
Recently, SDM has been saying that he hasn't had time to look over filters
On October 05 2012 23:18 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: D2 voting:
Debears by Darth 1-0 Debears by Djo 2-0 Alsn by Darth 1-1 Debears by Alsn 2-1 Debears by Omni 3-1 Alsn by SDM 3-2 Alsn by Debears 3-3 Debears by Boson 4-3 Alsn by Shady 4-4 Unvote + BotN by Boson 3-4 Alsn by Remedy 3-5 Alsn by Djo 2-6 Alsn by Stutters 2-7 Alsn by Boson 2-8
I'd need my conspiracy goggles on to see Boson pushing Alsn here. Read the links, it doesn't looks like Boson tries to nudge the decision in Debears favor. The case doesn't necessarily hinge on this, but it makes it considerably weaker. I'd need more time to read filters...
For someone who has a pretty large filter, time doesn't seem to be a problem for SDM. He continued to post during this time, although he needed more to look at filters.
On October 05 2012 20:39 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: But it still makes no sense to me. You assume Boson is scum, thus Debears can't be scum and thus Boson must be scum. Your assumption is your conclusion.
No
I know Alsn is town. I know ZB is trying to avoid pushing hard for a Debears lynch D2/3 even though he pushed a Debears lynch D1. Thus ZB's case on Debears feels insincere. Thus most of the case on Debears gets thrown out by me.
At the same time, I ask why ZB would want to push for a D1 Debears lynch even over Kush. Answer: Save Kush since Lesrah is AFK. I also ask why ZB would suddenly back away D2/D3. Answer: Avoid having town realize that the D1 push on Debears was a mislynch, accrue towncred, survive till endgame.
I cannot find any townie motivation why ZB would flip from pushing Debears over Kush D1 to accepting Alsn D2 and FoSing half the town over Debears D3.
That's actually an interesting case.
It's true Boson ignored the Kush case d1. He had a good case on Debears imo, so I didn't really find it weird he was pushing his own case (we all tend to be biased towards our own cases, at least that's true for me). I need to go back and look up his filter myself. He did switch to Alsn and I can't remember his reasonings. I feel like the individual pieces of evidence you have are not that strong, but they paint an interesting picture.
One question I have right off the bat, if it was all a big master plan, why did he initially vote for Debears d2? Seems like it could've caused the noose battle to become one-sided. Anyway, I'll go back and check his filter, I'm not 100% sure of those events.
What do you think of the Omni case? Having to read both of your filters I doubt I'll have time to make up my mind on this and I still like it.
Yet again, he says he won't be able to make up his mind on stuff since he doesn't have time. Notice the indecisive tone of those posts.
On October 05 2012 23:34 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
On October 05 2012 22:55 Z-BosoN wrote: EBWOP lynch him the next day if we decide he is scum. Also, sdm. Save my filter for the night. If you don't have enough time, decide between SS and djodref. This idea to bring up a ridiculous case on me in late day 3 when I'm not even a lynch choice is typical shady's dumb thinking, which mostly manifests itself when he is town. Also, doint ignore the fact he ignored your case. Anyways, I'm leaning slight town on him (plus, corrosion bothered writing a list before he left, as if he genuinely wants to help town. I feel if he were scum, he would just abandon this game and not care). omni seems scummy but is a wasteful lynch if he gets nodkilled, so that only leaves djodref, from my pov. Now that, from a skim of his filter, I can definitely see him as sxum, I want to lynch him atm.
I have no idea what to make out of all this. It doesn't look like a bad case but I'm having a feeling the more I look into it, the more farfetched it becomes. Or you are fucking genius. I mean, both the d1 against Debears and the d2 case against Alsn are good. All of us found them so good we voted at least one of them.
I'm still leaning Omni, since he's both very scummy and a complete lurker. but I still got a few more minutes to read filters.
More indecisiveness. At this point, SDM seems to be falling apart for no reason.
There are more of them...I'm putting them in a spoiler right here if you want to read the rest
On October 05 2012 16:41 Z-BosoN wrote: This is very intriguing... Thanks for that post SS, it brought out some very interesting reactions. Of course, your case is laughable, as usual. Of course, as scum, I would want to switch my vote towards a townie, in favor of, let's see, another townie. I will definitely bother producing a fuckton of text just for that. Anyways, djodref managed to be even worse. Please reread your points against me, and think of how they could come from me as scum. Think about what your FOS accomplishes for town here today. I'll be accepting donations to make up for you making my eyes bleed. If Omni doesn't answer, it's either debears/djodref/SS imo. Pointless lynching a modkill. Will decide come tomorrow, I gotta go sleep. SDM, I'd love to know your input on who you'd rather lynch save Omni. I'm sleepy as hell and will go to sleep, but probably during class tomorrow I'm gonna make up my mind. RSC, same thing. Gnight!
Not sure, Shady was my second pick until my brain just recently exploded. Djo's FOS was totally of the blue but I don't necessarily see a strong mafia motivation. If he's mafia maybe he wanted an easy wagon on you and backed off once Debears and I replied? Seems kind of unlikely.
On October 05 2012 15:39 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
On October 05 2012 14:30 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: Is this the point where you disappear again?
Confirmed.
I'll just say right away I'm not jumping a late Boson wagon, at least not if those are the arguments. Shady's post is a joke, what does this even mean?
On October 05 2012 14:19 Shady Sands wrote: his unvote of Debears and transfer to Alsn is also wierd
I have no idea what's going on here.
On October 05 2012 13:53 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: I'm pretty thrawn suggested in XXVII that scum is more likely to be talking about the NK rationale of scum. I don't think I've seen that myself though so I'm not sure whether it's true. Probably not, night actions seems like a rather common talking point in newbie games.
Open Ended Answers
There are posts where SDM just goes on an explanation and doesn't settle on an opinion. Scum like using these kinds of post to make it look like they are actually saying something when they aren't
On October 03 2012 20:43 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: I don't know what to make of Debears post-d2 posts because it's putting me in total WIFOM mode and I should probably just ignore it.
But disregarding his last posts which obviously could be the result of leveling, is his case stronger than the one I just made? Maybe it's the excitement of novelty, but really? At least I'd say Debears play has been way more pro-town. He has his scummy-looking inconsistneies for sure, but at the same time he was aggressive d1. He tried making cases, get the thread started. He took attention because he was willing to, compare that to Omni who's just cruising by. At least I encourage you to pop out of the Debears bubble we've all been in to look at it.
Also, to Debears benefit, does scum really hang on this long when faced by pages and pages of accusations? I know I gave in quickly in XXVI because it seemed pointless. And look at Kush's reaction. That's the only examples I have myself from experience, maybe Debears is different. And maybe you can question if a townie would hang in this long. At least Alsn did.
On October 05 2012 13:46 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
On October 01 2012 05:14 DarthPunk wrote: LOL. Seems scum really went for it. Nice medic save!
I'm guessing scum targeted Darth, and the medic saved him. He was the obvious candidate for NK, but the mafia tried to kill him anyway despite there being a high chance that a medic would be on him. This means that scum is desperate to get Darth out of the game. Why? Not only was he correct about Kush, but he gave his 3 top scum reads during the night in this order: Debears Djodref Alsn
From my perspective: since scum targeted Darth, one of his three reads has a high likelihood of being correct. If he was headed in the wrong direction with these reads, scum would have taken out someone else and let him lead us astray. Attempting to NK Darth was a huge risk, but I believe it's one scum had to take because he was so on track, and having him alive would spell their doom in the end.
What does everyone else think?
Why have such an out of the blue description of what could have happened? He seems to know a lot about what scum would have done in this situation.
For mafia motivation I can see him trying to lead us to three lynches, which we've already done one.
I know Drazak slipped his medic role in XXVI after his night action and Xatalos picked up on it (that's why I don't really like blue role discussions after night actions). This is not how he slipped though, Drazak slipped it by talking about the rationale of the medic. I feel like this could easily just be scum trying to passively suggest three mislynches (we should lynch Debears, Djodref and Alsn, not because I want to but because Darth wants to) or just a green speculating. Or possibly a medic, but the risk of him being medic AND missing to save Darth seems rather low to me. You need two rather low probability events to coincide for that to be true.
Basically I just don't make much out of this post.
Notice how in both posts, SDM just revolves around an idea, citing it from each perspective and then jsut sayiing all of them are equally as likely. No actual insight
Contributions
Going back through SDM's thread, I considered what were his unique cases and scumreads?
The only one I actually found was Djo's case. However, SDM quickly dropped the case once suspicion on Djo picked up
On October 01 2012 22:09 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: My main focus for today will be Debears, Djo and Alsn. Djo has already responded to the case presented yesterday. The individual evidence presented earlier matches the actions of how I would expect newbie scum to play, but for whatever it’s worth my “feel read” is that he’s coming off as quite genuine. I’ve also been going through his recent posts and can’t seem to find any obvious contridictions or inconcistencies in his explanations. It’s all newbie based explanation that could be made up ex-post but a newbie scum is likely to have fucked up at least some part of the defense, so if this is an innocent newbie charade he’s playing it off rahter well.
I’m feeling a bit uneasy going for a Djo lynch and for now I’m leaning towards Alsn or Debears being the better candidates. Both have been posting a metric shit ton lately so I've got my hands full going through everything. I’m looking to complete that half-finished thought I threw out on Alsn yesterday and have a better idea of which lynch I’m liking later today.
So, instead of going for his main case, he decides to turn onto me and Alsn, the easy cases. Let's look at his contribution to the Alsn case.
On October 02 2012 04:04 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: + Show Spoiler +
On October 01 2012 02:36 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: I tried to collect my thoughts regarding the Alsn case and I realized when I first commented my perception of the timeline of events was off.
On my first read through of the thread, I found Alsn being generally suspicious of everything (overall a town trait) and he had been fucking up with regards to some of the information (perhaps not what I'd expect of Alsn given what I've seen of him before, but I don't find it too weird). Alsn was pretty much a null read to me. Anyway, I went back to look at Alsn's filter.
In his first post, which happens around 11 hours after the start of the game, he makes a long ass post about his thoughts on Kush. This in itself might be suspicious to some people, but having played with Kush in XXVI and XXVII he was probably the one player I was thinking the most about who to handle pre-game so I don't find it too weird. In his next post, one hour later, he has read up on the thread and recognizes that Kush has been playing like he Alsn had been afraid he would. He FOS Kush but says he's not convinced.
Anyway, when I said I wasn't convinced of the case, I had messed up the timeline of events. I thought Alsn's posts indirectly defending Kush happened not long before Kush completely blew up. If that was the case, I would've found it weird for Kush to blow up soon after his scum buddy showed him support. It seems now that Kush blew up at a later stage when Alsn wasn't around the thread, so that nullifies the argument I thought I had against the case.
I felt it was best to put it out there because if I happen to get killed off I don't want to leave with the impression I had some well thought out objection to the Alsn case. I still need to finish reading Alsn's filter and look at the case again, but I won't have time to do it until tomorrow.
So yeah, not only did this turn out not to be an argument in favor of Alsn, but the timings makes sense for him being scum. Kush’s posts are actually most reasonable when Alsn is around and he later blows up after Alsn leaves with this post:
On September 29 2012 03:50 Alsn wrote: Would just like to say that I'm going to bed a little early today. Will be up in the morning(~12-14 hours before lynch) and making some posts and then on and off until lynch but without major "leaves of absence". Here's hoping that no one is still lurking when I wake up.
This in itself isn’t necessarily incriminating but worth noting.
Anyway, I’ll focus more on your reasoning for defending Kush. I don’t think it’s been fully covered and reading your filter this is something that doesn’t make sense to me.
When Alsn makes his first post Kush is taking heat from Darth. The Kush case hadn’t really been built yet, but the information is there. This is something Alsn acknowledges in his second post.
On September 28 2012 17:56 Alsn wrote: Wow, upon reading the thread I realise that kush has been following the exact pattern I just now specified to be the way not to play if he wanted to absolve himself in my eyes.
The OMGUS, the aggression, the flaming, the scum slip. Despite this, he’s going back on what he just said in his first post:
On September 28 2012 16:54 Alsn wrote: So to sum up, kush, I can definitely forgive you for your "style" of posting but I will not under any circumstance forgive you for posting shitty content
And instead posts:
On September 28 2012 17:56 Alsn wrote: However, I definitely want to give him the benefit of the doubt and allow him to actually try and show that he has town's best interest in mind. So until then, while I definitely would like everyone to share their reads on kush so far, that is not enough for D1. We need to start exploring different possibilities because if we decide to lynch kush and he flips green, spending all of D1 talking about him will put us back at square one minus two townies.
I'll make another post within an hour or two on another topic as I think I've made myself perfectly clear on where I stand on kush, but right now I need breakfast.
So he leaves saying he’s undecided on Kush, trying to steer the discussion in a different direction and if not, him having an easier bus decision (again, not incriminating in itself, but not my main point).
Your main arguments for defending Kush is 1) his meta supporting his play and 2) the scum slip not being severe. To me that’s a really weird conclusion to make.
On September 28 2012 21:31 Alsn wrote: he has pointed out that he doesn't agree with your tunneling of kush.
I find it astonishing that you 'interpret' debears' post that way in context of your view of Z-Boson.
The way in which you paraphrase things whilst obscuring the truth/ put your own angle on things has me very concerned.
Astonishing how? I would like you to explain what's so amazingly pro-town about tunneling kush from the very beginning. I find the risks of that approach to be very high from a town perspective.
There are two scenarios: A) He flips green, and unless he during the day completely changed his character we will have almost no way of distinguishing who among the people who pushed for his lynch were scum and who were town.
B) He flips scum, at this point I just don't find that likely enough to risk A) happening.
That fact alone is enough for me to see that post of debears as entirely reasonable, since both of you at the time were basically calling out kush for every single post he was making(for good reason, but not if that's the only thing you are doing).
I was not just looking at Kush. I was looking at the reactions to my case on kush also, Namely debears. As far as I am concerned Kush is scum and therefore it is best for town to lynch him. I like to focus on one thing at a time. Especially when he is incredibly scummy and has SCUM SLIPPED It is a common scum hunting technique and has been recommended in Several postgames. Obviously It was not to the exclusion of all others because I am now looking at you and debears. If there was nothing to go on I would have changed tac. Turns out he is scum. So I try and get him lynched. Savvy?
On September 28 2012 22:03 Alsn wrote: That fact alone is enough for me to see that post of debears as entirely reasonable, since both of you at the time were basically calling out kush for every single post he was making(for good reason, but not if that's the only thing you are doing).
So you don't find Kush likely to flip scum? good to know. Z -Boson hardly called out kush. I made a case. I was not tunnelling. (but I see that is the misconception you are trying to present) If by some miracle he flips green there is still a lot of info to go off. Your premise iswrong and thus your conclusions are wrong.
I was calling out Kush for good reason? and at the same time Debears was entirely reasonable in shutting that down?
##FoS ALSN
Given the evidence so far no, I don't, and frankly I don't see why that's so hard to believe. Given his history, it should be easy to see for anyone that while he has different town and scum metas(as pointed out by Hapahauli in the obs QT of NMMXVII), his comments so far this game is entirely in line with the way he usually posts during D1. Basically just writing up whatever is on his mind. That to me doesn't really increase or decrease the chances of him flipping either way(but the setup of the game says all else being equal, 75% of the players are green, 25% are scum)
Yes, you called him out for good reason because his arguments(like so many times before this game) make little to no sense. But right now the only thing I really agree actually points to him being scum is what you call his scum slip. I just do not agree with you of just how damning that statement is. The first thing that sprang to mind when I saw you quoting that was simply that townie was an odd word to use, why not use player? But a confirmed scum slip? Come on, it's not like he said something that is entirely outside the realm of possibility for a town player to say. "Townie" wouldn't be the word I'd use, but I just can't see it as that obvious a scum slip. I'll accept that you are not necessarily wrong for thinking so however.
Meta: I’m curious about this post because I disagree. I made a post later regarding how I think it didn’t match his town meta, a post you didn’t reply to (basically I think he has shown to be more aggressive, inflammatory and posted more pure crap as scum).
There is no explanation for his town read on me. The only reason he would say that is if he was scum.
This last part seems to overly simplify the matter to me. The only reason? I myself can see a few reasons, but I would like kush to reply himself before I comment further as I don't want to give him an easy out.
Scum slip: Now that Kush is lynched, could you explain what those easy outs you thought of were? I’m really not seeing what easy outs you'd see for Kush straight up calling his attacker townie.
Not only do I find your reasons for defending Kush weird, but to me they seem contradictory. Particularly when you claim that he is “basically just writing up whatever is on his mind” (which I think is true to a certain extent). If that’s your meta read on Kush, it would make all sense in the world that the scum slip is an actual scum slip. Typing what’s on your mind is exactly what results in a scum slip like that. So you’re using his meta to make null read on Kush's aggressive and nonsensical posts (which I disagree with) and you downplay his scum slip although it contradicts your meta read. To me this seems like slips in logic in made in order to defend Kush, a defense I now realize is both direct and indirect
.
Notice how a half of his case is a poorly reasoned argument about the timing of Alsn's departure and kush's implosion. It is an argument based on assumptions. Next, he found it weird that Alsn defended kush (which had already been explained a bunch). However, he finds Alsn guilty of something that he had found me innocent of. Alsn had stated multiple times that he was trying to keep the whole town from tunneling kush, which is something that I also said. However, SDM only used that argument to clear me.
Notice how all his cases except Djo: (Omni, me, Alsn, SS/Corrosion) are points already brought up. Most of the time he just differently words an argument that has already been presented.
The Lynch or Lack Thereof
The events leading up to the lynch are a major scumslip in my book on SDM, He shriveled up into an indecisive shell at last moment. Yet, he wanted it that way.
On October 02 2012 19:55 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
On October 02 2012 18:10 DarthPunk wrote: Also. We need to consolidate on Either Alsn or Debears. I am happy with either. Would mildly prefer a debears lynch. But I think both are scummy as shit.
So. Who are we going to Consolidate onto? Z- Boson? SDM? thoughts?
I'm leaning Alsn and I'm hoping to have time to explain why with a good amount of time to the lynch.
I agree about the consolidating, but I don't think we're in a hurry. With an early concensus it's easier for scum to blend in, whereas if we wait they'll potentially face the pressure of a bus or save situation (or wait until the last minute to make a decision, which is scummy looking).
. However, when it comes to the situation he wants, a last minute switch, he refuses to lynch me to gain information based on the sudden vote changes, which could immensely help the town.
1) It clears the confusion over me being scum or town 2) It gives a better indication of who is scum based on the reaction to the sudden voteswing.
On October 06 2012 01:41 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
On October 06 2012 01:25 debears wrote: @Djo
Considering you were third on my scum list, and numbers 1(Omni) and 2 (SS) aren't sensible lynches atm, you are now my top scumread. Omni will most likely get modkilled. SS has posted a case using a similar line of thinking that I did earlier. Also, he took head on the most/2nd most townie person here. What kind of scum would do that when the scum could focus on me, omni, you, or stutters and get easy mislynches?
You, on the other hand, sheeped onto his case, which would be easy for mafia to do, as SS would take the blame. You just repeat Shady's reasoning, and now when Z-Bo attacks you, you instead just transfer back to me after FOSing Z-Bo. Your actions don't make sense from a townie perspective. They make plenty from mafia perspective.
That, considering the rest of your actions this game, give me a strong mafia read.
##Vote: Djodref
Consider that we need to consolidate 5 votes on one player. If Stutters and Omni doesn't show up and Shady doesn't return, the only ones we can consolidate on seems to be Stutters and Omni. Obviously Stutters isn't an option, which leaves Omni. And Omni is a cancerous lurker and scummy as hell.
But if Stutters and Omni doesn't show up they might be modkilled anyway. Or is this even guaranteed? What a fucked up situation.
I don't understand this post. Instead of talking about whether a player is scummy, he starts rambling on whether others will show up Instead he latches onto Omni, a target we were pretty sure would be modkilled.
On October 06 2012 03:03 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: I just finished reading his filter and I basically found same case I posted n1 and then him all acting indecisive today. Fuck, I don't know, these last minutes switches make me uneasy. I was starting to get more of town vibe from him until today.
More indecisiveness, although this was the exact scenario he wanted so he could get some reads on voting.
On October 06 2012 03:12 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: Meh, I still like Omni better though. What if he comes back back, how many are willing to switch?
##Unvote
He unvotes Djo, citing that he liked Omni better. We had already discussed the scenario of voting for Omni if he comes back. Yet, SDM still acts confused.
On October 06 2012 03:23 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
On October 06 2012 03:21 debears wrote: Yeah you're right SDM
If mafia claimed cop, and they were godfather, they would know there's a cop.
If mafia was a framer, they would know there's a cop.
If mafia was a goon, they would be risking a claim on the fact that there would not be a cop when there still could be
I've seen setups with miller without a rolechecker in earlier newbies (or some game on TL, not sure what), don't think you can reason this way. Seem like a high % legit claim, is there any way to be 100%?
This was about the cop claim. SDM brings up a distracting, pointless question that he knows the answer to. The only way to be 100% on a cop claim is 1) a lynch of the cop 2) a scum lynch that the cop points out. Since 2) was not an option due to no red reads, lynching Djo would've been the only answer. SDM knows this. He is a good player that does not suddenly go full retard like this unless its for a reason.
On October 06 2012 03:50 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
On October 06 2012 03:39 debears wrote: @SDM
How so? I could see it if we were talking 2 scum left. Is this under the assumption that there isn't a godfather and instead a framer or goon lefT?
If you work with probabilities it means the chance is lower, but of course you never know. Kind of like when you play poker and hit a pretty good hand, the chance of you winning is higher but you never know. Worst analogy ever.
Next, he keeps the topic off who to lynch. he keeps talking about the probability of the claim being true, which is a moot point at that time. Notice how he keeps avoiding the topic of who we should lynch
On October 06 2012 04:22 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: How many are still around? And wtf happened to Boson? He dropped a huge ass case and then poof.
Still nothing on who we should lynch. Just asking if people are around.
On October 06 2012 04:16 RemedySC wrote: Well Z-bo or Debears would probably give us the most information, since Omni is likely to be modkilled.
What do you think SDM?
My biggest scum read is set up for a modkill. Shady just got peeked and I wasn't entirely convinced before hand either. Next on my list would be Debears but I haven't given him much thought today until all this happened. Wasn't convinced about the Boson case and my state of mind isn't optimal for great decision making right now. I wouldn't mind a no lynch.
Look hard at this post. Look really hard. He knows his biggest scum read is going to get modkilled at this point, yet his still wants to vote for him. He says he doesn't know on Shady. And finally, HE HASN"T GIVEN LYNCHING ME MUCH THOUGHT AFTER I WAS A HEADLINE ALL GAME IN THE SCUMREADS UNTIL RIGHT BEFORE LYNCH????
That is bs. Total bs. He is definitely lying there.
On October 06 2012 04:29 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: If no one's here and want to push anything other than a no lynch I'm going to sleep. I'm really really tired.
On October 06 2012 05:21 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: WTF
Alright. Let's summarize his lynch thoughts 1) Indecisive 2) Wants a No lynch 3) Becomes extremely confused 4) Disappears right after his WTF post
Now, let's look at townie and mafia motivations 1) Town - He is actually confused. He believes that SS and Me might be town. He believes that Omni may still pop up. Problems with this thought - We all said we would be willing to switch back to Omni if he suddenly showed up to avoid modkill. But btw SS and me, town has to lynch one of us! SS might be town or might be scum. Either way, we need to clarify his alignment. The same is for me (from your guy's angle, I am town). SDM knows this. By taking out one of us, it would have led to more information for town at a stage where we can afford a mislynch. I needed 1 more vote for a lynch. Yet, SDM sits there, suddenly becoming the most indecisive player in the world despite what appeared to be a very good game in which everyone saw him as town. 2) Mafia - By keeping, SS and me(especially me) around, a mafia has the opportunity to take advantage of the confusion it will create for town. He can get away with nks that will easily be blamed on me and SS until our alignments are cleared up. He can act on the confusion in the thread and hide behind not forcing a vote (despite the fact that he stated earlier that he wanted a last minute vote situation).
SDM, you're looking pretty scummy right now
##unvote ##vote: Sonic Death Monkey
All I ask from all the town that is left is to look at this case multiple times. Read SDM's filter. After I get lynched, I feel that SDM is the most likely scum. JUST READ WITH TOWNIE GOGGLES FOR NOW. VOTE ME. LYNCH ME. AND THEN TAKE HIM DOWN.
So either you got comfortable as scum or you are just degrading your game.
I had to do some things, will read more carefully now. Wake the fuck up guys, I'm getting lynched in a completely lazy and stupid way. A case based solely on meta is worthless. Read my case on thrawn for crying out loud. "Not lynching replacements" is a dumb way to go about it. Thrawn's meta is indisputably off (someone said RL reasons. Well, my reasons are also RL..) and ASIDE FROM THAT. His play is completely scummy and incoherent.
This town is getting lazy lazy. All it takes to avoid a mislynch on me is to fucking read and fucking think.
Firstly your case isn't based soley on meta.
Secondly meta is a very large part of what a lot of good players use to catch scum. I have read and I have thought and I don't agree.
I think it is best for town that you die. Even in the unlikely scenario that you are in fact town. We are not getting past this. We have mislynches to play with and lynching a miller claim that is playing scummy has higher odds of hitting scum than lynching S&B.
On November 18 2012 06:43 DarthPunk wrote: No one cares about BH's claim right now. So we can shut up about it and focus on lynching ZB or someone else.
ZB, Clarity, DJo, S&B
Those are our candidates.
Personally I want to lynch ZB for being scum. I could vote for clarity also.
I do not want to vote for S&B or Djo today.
why clarity i had a stronger town read during this cycle
I do not share the town read on him that everyone else seems to have. See my previous case. and his play has only deteriorated since then.
On November 18 2012 06:55 Z-BosoN wrote: @Hopeless
Hopeless, I wasn't the leader for the 10-15 minutes leading up to the lynch. With 13 minutes to go, the vote count was 6-6. I started making that post without having seen the vote count. This is the exactly what I'm talking about when I'm saying you guys are idiots, you can't even manage to check the fucking thread on things as important as these.
Why in the WORLD does me committing myself to pursuing hapa makes more sense as a "scum wanting to bus and gain towncred" rather than a "townie who actually thinks hapa is scum"? This, of course, when I already showed signs of suspicion form hapa. Why does this make sense as scum to you? Goddamn. Needlessly bussing a teammate day one when there isn't even a case on him? This notion is ridiculous to me, I can't fathom how this makes sense to every single one of you.
I don't see what you are saying in this third paragraph. I said he was the best day 2 lynch. Before I was supposedly dead, it was hapa #1 and bh #2. Then I said I'd rather lynch clarity rather than BH, because I thought (and still do) think that a BH lynch is stupid right now.
@DarthPunk You are a brick. You love saying you read, but it's so clear that you just skim over my arguments. Those two lines you are finding contradictory are referring to two different posts, one 5min prior to the deadline (when I assumed I was dead), and one 10 min before (when I didn't.). Whatever, you're an idiot and can't be reasoned with, so do this: Keep your vote on me. Pursue other scumreads now. Clarity is not it. I'm scum, and I'm saying clarity is town, no point reading into him, right? Great. (here's a good quote for all you brilliant haters, I just claimed scum lololol)
Read into thrawn/djodref and debears. Also try to analyze BH for day 3.
Also. If you are scum there is no point pursuing anyone. If you are not scum you have no additional information and therefore I choose my reads over yours. Therefore your point about clarity is nonsense. Like essentially all your arguments.
On November 18 2012 09:21 Z-BosoN wrote: Done. All my reads and thoughts on the game have been written. Perhaps I should increase the expectation and post it right before I die. That way I look like a hero and leave a greater impact on you guys, so as to not be confused with a scum trying to buy off a lynch.
If I post them now though, I might look a little bad. What do you guys think?
Hmm. I'm tired of this game though, was fun in day 1 but now it's just a bunch of people posting with their and won't have much time to play during the week. Perhaps I should post these right before I die. Yes, yes, sir Chronos the Gallant wants to look good!
On November 18 2012 09:21 Z-BosoN wrote: Done. All my reads and thoughts on the game have been written. Perhaps I should increase the expectation and post it right before I die. That way I look like a hero and leave a greater impact on you guys, so as to not be confused with a scum trying to buy off a lynch.
If I post them now though, I might look a little bad. What do you guys think?
Hmm. I'm tired of this game though, was fun in day 1 but now it's just a bunch of people posting with their and won't have much time to play during the week. Perhaps I should post these right before I die. Yes, yes, sir Chronos the Gallant wants to look good!
now you idiot
But but but then it will look lamer and less heroic. Might be confused with WIFOM. I want to look heroic for the fans!
im all for winning quicker if you are town you will make this go longer. It would also allow dabars to get a 30 page filter which nobody wants.
On November 18 2012 10:15 DarthPunk wrote: Nah. I want ZB to flip. Then if the game is still going we can check out that wall of text of his.
its not that long read it bro
I did read it. I still think he is scum. If he is town it holds more value for me than it does currently. It looks exactly how he thinks it would. A mechanism to escape from his lynch. It only becomes useful when he dies.
There is no one I want to lynch over ZB. And the only person I would consider is clarity.
On November 19 2012 01:35 strongandbig wrote: hopeless can't be fakeclaiming, because then someone would have had to be around to roleblock BH - only BH can be fakeclaiming.
And as for your other point, I think that it's not necessarily a suicidal move if you (a) think you can get away with it, or (b) don't really think you can / want to try to win normally as SK in the first place
Basically, I still think BH's claim makes as much sense from an SK as it does from an actual town jailkeeper.
Right. I caught up. Clarity whining about inactivity in this game is just silly. This is the opposite of an inactive game. The fact that clarity persists on spending so much time whining about inactivity when that is not happening bothers me. Also clarity has asked me to actually pursue scum reads as If I haven;t already. I had a major scum read on ZB and pursued it. I had a scum read on clarity and posted a case to a vitriolic reception.
That's another thing. Clarity says I should make a case on him if he is my scum read. as if I have not already. I would like to know the town mindset behind spreading untruths and focusing far to much on inactivity when the game is not inactive.
Blazinghands case against clarity is good. And the fact that clarity resorted to WIFOM to establish his townieness worries me.
lynch Djo clarity and S&B and I doubt we could lose this. THis game is a pain in the arse to keep up with. Far too many posts most of them are useless and are just repeating what has already been said. I am going to look through the filters of those three players and see if I can come up with anything.
so i was going though his filter again making a case but i ran into this post.
Scum i don't think would call out his own member that quickly would he?
im having a hard time getting past this especially when cross had little attention on him.
You should know this s not true. Cross was a weak player.No doubt they were worried about him in the QT. he would be an ideal bus.
Oh I am back BTW and catching up with the thread. Also everyone calline out my inactivity GTFO. I have a 10 page filter day two. I have pushed my scum reads. Am I playing badly? Sure I am. I have zero motivation right now. It feels like I am doing an assignment. But here I am reading the thread when I have no inclination to do so.
There are some spammers in this game who have fucking mass posted with little fucking content of value. (clarity) Who make this game a chore to read.
I have a strong town read on S&B he is a mislynch. I want to lynch clarity or DJO.
I am total lynch bait right now. Anyone pushing a lynch on me is fucking suspicious. Enter DJo. Subtly wanting to push me and fucking Iamp. like seriously pushing the inactives who he should have a damn town read on??
anyway. Now I am back reading the thread. Heaps of shit is pissing me off which is motivating me in a way. so that is good I guess.
On November 20 2012 19:56 DarthPunk wrote: I am total lynch bait right now. Anyone pushing a lynch on me is fucking suspicious.
This is the best sentence
What do you mean? If by best sentence you mean the only thing of substance. You are fucking right. You know what pisses me off though. Looking through 15-20 page filters that contain a similar percentage of substance in my free time.
Like I cannot fathom how you all have such large filters, are calling people out for not contributing, and yet have not made a convincing case on fucking S&B who has 5 votes. in fact. I would request all of you guys who seem to not have a problem posting so much to, IN YOUR OWN WORDS, tell me why S&B is scum.
On November 20 2012 20:17 Blazinghand wrote: I don't like Drjoref either. I'm beginning to feel a clarity lynch more than an SnB lynch but I can't really give a reason other than that Clarity seems more scum to me than SnB. Despite taking a look at the stuff SnB pointed out, I really don't see a coherent case for what SnB has written. It looks like he just quoted a bunch of things from clarity's filter and reacted to them in a pretty useless way rather than picking out what he thought was important and presenting a real case. He notes one or two posts that are weird by clarity but overall SnB's case on clarity is crap.
As an aside, DP, I don't like that you prioritized another game, and I like even less that you mentioned it, and now that that game is over, you've still been low activity. It's not that it's particularly scummy, it's just unhelpful to town and honestly our job is to win. If you're get mislynched this game because you signed up for 2 mafia games, or even worse, because after the other one ended you decided you didn't care about this one, you'll look like an ass. Don't be that guy.
You still get some credit for being a player who lynched Hapa. Most of your interactions with him (link)(link) seem like you and he are not scummbuddies though you have a couple interactions with him that seem weird (link). I don't like that you defend Crossfire (link) with little explanation and also put a townread on him with no explanation (link) or really any of your non-explaining this game on any players. It's disturbing and prevents people from getting reads on you.
I think you're town, DP, but I'd like to REALLY think you're town. I've tried to save you before this game, you know. I just wish I had more to substantiate this read. And you're not providing it.
I have pushed my scum reads when I have had them. I have a 9 page filter day two which is a perfectly acceptable level of activity. This game is abnormally long. Most of the posts are useless spam to be honest and not very interesting to read.
I am not as active as I have been in past games, this is true. But there is more than enough information in my filter, which unlike some, actually contains strong positions by which I can be held accountable.
There is some misconception that I am non active. My activity level is fine. I read through the thread and some filters once per day and post. I don't have a 27 page filter like you BH. But to be honest I don't view that as a positive at this stage.
so i was going though his filter again making a case but i ran into this post.
Scum i don't think would call out his own member that quickly would he?
im having a hard time getting past this especially when cross had little attention on him.
You should know this s not true. Cross was a weak player.No doubt they were worried about him in the QT. he would be an ideal bus.
Oh I am back BTW and catching up with the thread. Also everyone calline out my inactivity GTFO. I have a 10 page filter day two. I have pushed my scum reads. Am I playing badly? Sure I am. I have zero motivation right now. It feels like I am doing an assignment. But here I am reading the thread when I have no inclination to do so.
There are some spammers in this game who have fucking mass posted with little fucking content of value. (clarity) Who make this game a chore to read.
I have a strong town read on S&B he is a mislynch. I want to lynch clarity or DJO.
I am total lynch bait right now. Anyone pushing a lynch on me is fucking suspicious. Enter DJo. Subtly wanting to push me and fucking Iamp. like seriously pushing the inactives who he should have a damn town read on??
anyway. Now I am back reading the thread. Heaps of shit is pissing me off which is motivating me in a way. so that is good I guess.
Top Scum reads.
Clarity, Djo.
Cool story bro... I have some doubts about you and they grow larger when you are clearly twisting what I have said. I doubt you can show that I want to push iamp because that it simply a lie.
Sup Scumzor. I can find the post or did I misread the part where you asked BH to comment on both Iamp and myself after heavily implying you had altered your town read on me?
I can guarentee that if he had said he thought we were scummy you would have jumped all over us.
LOL. That you were feeling out a wagon on lynch-bait was so fucking transparent dude. And as I am reading through your filter there is very little that suggests TOWN to me.
On November 20 2012 20:28 Blazinghand wrote: you can suck on my long hard filter
It's far too long. While you are here and obviously you have no aversion to posting. Tell me exactly why your vote is on S&B. It would be nice to have a side project whilst I build the case that will lynch djo... er I mean the final scum.
On November 20 2012 20:30 Blazinghand wrote: Look, the issue isn't "how much filter DP had day two" it's that in the past 60 hours you've posted like 5-6 times and most of those have been within the past half hour. Shit has happened, man! ZB flipped, debears flipped, cases were made (without you, I might add) and things are going on. At least you weren't shitting up the thread with setup speculation, but come on dude. There's a game happening here.
Yep. I have been keeping up. Very little has actually progressed in the last 60 hours though. Which is surprising seeing as I had to read thorough an ungodly amount of trash to discover that.
On November 20 2012 20:31 Blazinghand wrote: Yeah I'm being a bit reserved with a couple of my reads cause honestly what you guys have to say is more important. Still waiting for a read on clarity from djodref
WOW. if you are seriously pulling that shit you need to go. I'm not joking. I am asking you to explain your vote. Do so.
On November 20 2012 20:31 Blazinghand wrote: Yeah I'm being a bit reserved with a couple of my reads cause honestly what you guys have to say is more important. Still waiting for a read on clarity from djodref
Fine if you are reserved with your other reads. I don;t give a fuck don;t say anything about them. What I AM asking for is an EXPLANATION for why the person you are voting for is scum. That is non negotiable.
On November 20 2012 20:28 Blazinghand wrote: you can suck on my long hard filter
It's far too long. While you are here and obviously you have no aversion to posting. Tell me exactly why your vote is on S&B. It would be nice to have a side project whilst I build the case that will lynch djo... er I mean the final scum.
kk one sec brb but if you could examine clarity cases that would be neat especially since your last thought on him was this:
On November 18 2012 06:51 DarthPunk wrote: And I do NOT think his play has improved. If ZB somehow actually does flip town I want to lynch clarity. I will make an updated case at some point.
On November 19 2012 09:53 DarthPunk wrote: Right. I caught up. Clarity whining about inactivity in this game is just silly. This is the opposite of an inactive game. The fact that clarity persists on spending so much time whining about inactivity when that is not happening bothers me. Also clarity has asked me to actually pursue scum reads as If I haven;t already. I had a major scum read on ZB and pursued it. I had a scum read on clarity and posted a case to a vitriolic reception.
That's another thing. Clarity says I should make a case on him if he is my scum read. as if I have not already. I would like to know the town mindset behind spreading untruths and focusing far to much on inactivity when the game is not inactive.
Blazinghands case against clarity is good. And the fact that clarity resorted to WIFOM to establish his townieness worries me.
On November 19 2012 15:10 DarthPunk wrote: lynch Djo clarity and S&B and I doubt we could lose this. THis game is a pain in the arse to keep up with. Far too many posts most of them are useless and are just repeating what has already been said. I am going to look through the filters of those three players and see if I can come up with anything.
On November 20 2012 19:56 DarthPunk wrote: There are some spammers in this game who have fucking mass posted with little fucking content of value. (clarity) Who make this game a chore to read.
////
I have a strong town read on S&B he is a mislynch. I want to lynch clarity or DJO.
////
Top Scum reads.
Clarity, Djo.
I await the updated clarity case.
Add. wishy washy and he has not much of substance. S&B sums it up rather well actually which only reinforces my scum read of him.
On November 20 2012 20:38 Blazinghand wrote: Why isn't it negotiable? I'm as confirmed town as it's gonna get, I'll put my vote where I want it. Let the other town players explain themselves first. You keep on promising these clarity cases then disappearing from the thread just to say "oh I don't like clarity but I'll write a case on him _next time_"
Surely if you really think clarity is scum you'd have written this case you keep on talking about, especially since you've read his filter.
And hopeless is confirmed. You are close. But not confirmed. And there are situations in which we should probably lynch you. Especially after My last game.
On November 20 2012 20:28 Blazinghand wrote: you can suck on my long hard filter
It's far too long. While you are here and obviously you have no aversion to posting. Tell me exactly why your vote is on S&B. It would be nice to have a side project whilst I build the case that will lynch djo... er I mean the final scum.
kk one sec brb but if you could examine clarity cases that would be neat especially since your last thought on him was this:
On November 18 2012 06:51 DarthPunk wrote: And I do NOT think his play has improved. If ZB somehow actually does flip town I want to lynch clarity. I will make an updated case at some point.
On November 19 2012 09:53 DarthPunk wrote: Right. I caught up. Clarity whining about inactivity in this game is just silly. This is the opposite of an inactive game. The fact that clarity persists on spending so much time whining about inactivity when that is not happening bothers me. Also clarity has asked me to actually pursue scum reads as If I haven;t already. I had a major scum read on ZB and pursued it. I had a scum read on clarity and posted a case to a vitriolic reception.
That's another thing. Clarity says I should make a case on him if he is my scum read. as if I have not already. I would like to know the town mindset behind spreading untruths and focusing far to much on inactivity when the game is not inactive.
Blazinghands case against clarity is good. And the fact that clarity resorted to WIFOM to establish his townieness worries me.
S&B is a town read.
clarity and djo need to be looked at next.
If BH is alive much longer we need to lynch him.
On November 19 2012 15:10 DarthPunk wrote: lynch Djo clarity and S&B and I doubt we could lose this. THis game is a pain in the arse to keep up with. Far too many posts most of them are useless and are just repeating what has already been said. I am going to look through the filters of those three players and see if I can come up with anything.
On November 20 2012 19:56 DarthPunk wrote: There are some spammers in this game who have fucking mass posted with little fucking content of value. (clarity) Who make this game a chore to read.
////
I have a strong town read on S&B he is a mislynch. I want to lynch clarity or DJO.
////
Top Scum reads.
Clarity, Djo.
I await the updated clarity case.
Add. wishy washy and he has not much of substance. S&B sums it up rather well actually which only reinforces my scum read of him.
Stop deflecting and answer the question.
I steadfastly refuse to do anything for you that I don't want to do. Give us a nice summarized clarity case. You've been away for days, surely you had time to think about it.
I am making a case on DJO.
Anything you need to know about clarity can be found in one of the three cases on him. Everything since then is more fo the same.
You refusing to justify your vote is scummy or bad. Not sure which.
On November 20 2012 20:41 Blazinghand wrote: I'm legitimately curious as I am not a setup speculator: Could there in fact be only 2 blues in this game?
so i was going though his filter again making a case but i ran into this post.
Scum i don't think would call out his own member that quickly would he?
im having a hard time getting past this especially when cross had little attention on him.
You should know this s not true. Cross was a weak player.No doubt they were worried about him in the QT. he would be an ideal bus.
Oh I am back BTW and catching up with the thread. Also everyone calline out my inactivity GTFO. I have a 10 page filter day two. I have pushed my scum reads. Am I playing badly? Sure I am. I have zero motivation right now. It feels like I am doing an assignment. But here I am reading the thread when I have no inclination to do so.
There are some spammers in this game who have fucking mass posted with little fucking content of value. (clarity) Who make this game a chore to read.
I have a strong town read on S&B he is a mislynch. I want to lynch clarity or DJO.
I am total lynch bait right now. Anyone pushing a lynch on me is fucking suspicious. Enter DJo. Subtly wanting to push me and fucking Iamp. like seriously pushing the inactives who he should have a damn town read on??
anyway. Now I am back reading the thread. Heaps of shit is pissing me off which is motivating me in a way. so that is good I guess.
Top Scum reads.
Clarity, Djo.
Cool story bro... I have some doubts about you and they grow larger when you are clearly twisting what I have said. I doubt you can show that I want to push iamp because that it simply a lie.
Sup Scumzor. I can find the post or did I misread the part where you asked BH to comment on both Iamp and myself after heavily implying you had altered your town read on me?
I can guarentee that if he had said he thought we were scummy you would have jumped all over us.
LOL. That you were feeling out a wagon on lynch-bait was so fucking transparent dude. And as I am reading through your filter there is very little that suggests TOWN to me.
@ Darthpunk
I'm wary about you, not about iamp. I just wanted to know if I was on the right tracks for thinking that way. BH is now confirmed and provides some good advices sometimes. I think you are really over reacting when you refer to iamp and you as lynchbaits.
I was very clear that I would never lynch iamp nor Kickstart. You are misinterpreting what I have said or you are full of confirmation bias.
You are full of shit. ROFL.
What you are saying is that you would like to push a lynch on me though?
On November 20 2012 20:46 Blazinghand wrote: Yeah see since there are 13 players in the game I'm just gonna assume there are 3 blues. That makes me an uncontested blue claim and confirmed town, as usual. Get your head in the game, boy-o. Although I'm flattered you've decided to grace us with your presence once again, you should at least try to get up to date with that's going on. ZB flipped miller, debears flipped cop. It's D3. etc etc
Get out. I read the thread. I understand your claim. There could be two blues. It is very likely that you are town. But not certain.
Also. If you are going to continue to act this way I will just do as I please and ignore you. I am sure you wouldn't want that. If you want to be difficult. Fine. Two can play that game.
On November 20 2012 20:43 Blazinghand wrote: Don't worry DP someday you'll understand these things
Maybe marv will explain this later. He is a better player than you after all
I like how your response isn't that *you* are a good player but that marv is. I'll admit he's a much better player than I am. But you, as you implicitly admit, have much to learn. I hope you've at least been reading the thread?
On November 20 2012 20:51 Blazinghand wrote: Well, I have a townread on you, I'm just trying to get you to be useful and maybe convince others that you're town as well. I'm almost certainly getting shot tonight, so it's your funeral. I was just hoping that prodding you a bit to provide a case on a guy who you have a scumread on, whose filter you have already read, would result in you proving yourself.
But hey, to each his own.
I already said I am making a case on DJO. Whom I have a larger scum read on than I do on clarity.
On November 20 2012 20:52 Blazinghand wrote: In any case, despite being A) a lurker and B) a baby, DP is in fact town. Don't let how he posts (or doesn't post) cloud your judgement, guys.
Oh BlazingHand. How I used to love you so. When I was but a newbie and I looking at my coach with Innocent eyes. Shining as a beacon of all that was right and good in the world.
Oh how the stars have fallen and descended into darkness.
so i was going though his filter again making a case but i ran into this post.
Scum i don't think would call out his own member that quickly would he?
im having a hard time getting past this especially when cross had little attention on him.
You should know this s not true. Cross was a weak player.No doubt they were worried about him in the QT. he would be an ideal bus.
Oh I am back BTW and catching up with the thread. Also everyone calline out my inactivity GTFO. I have a 10 page filter day two. I have pushed my scum reads. Am I playing badly? Sure I am. I have zero motivation right now. It feels like I am doing an assignment. But here I am reading the thread when I have no inclination to do so.
There are some spammers in this game who have fucking mass posted with little fucking content of value. (clarity) Who make this game a chore to read.
I have a strong town read on S&B he is a mislynch. I want to lynch clarity or DJO.
I am total lynch bait right now. Anyone pushing a lynch on me is fucking suspicious. Enter DJo. Subtly wanting to push me and fucking Iamp. like seriously pushing the inactives who he should have a damn town read on??
anyway. Now I am back reading the thread. Heaps of shit is pissing me off which is motivating me in a way. so that is good I guess.
Top Scum reads.
Clarity, Djo.
Cool story bro... I have some doubts about you and they grow larger when you are clearly twisting what I have said. I doubt you can show that I want to push iamp because that it simply a lie.
Sup Scumzor. I can find the post or did I misread the part where you asked BH to comment on both Iamp and myself after heavily implying you had altered your town read on me?
I can guarentee that if he had said he thought we were scummy you would have jumped all over us.
LOL. That you were feeling out a wagon on lynch-bait was so fucking transparent dude. And as I am reading through your filter there is very little that suggests TOWN to me.
@ Darthpunk
I'm wary about you, not about iamp. I just wanted to know if I was on the right tracks for thinking that way. BH is now confirmed and provides some good advices sometimes. I think you are really over reacting when you refer to iamp and you as lynchbaits.
I was very clear that I would never lynch iamp nor Kickstart. You are misinterpreting what I have said or you are full of confirmation bias.
You are full of shit. ROFL.
What you are saying is that you would like to push a lynch on me though?
On November 20 2012 20:57 Blazinghand wrote: Well, admittedly I can't say for sure whether or not you're a baby-- if you are in fact an infant you are highly intelligent and possess great motor co-ordination since you're able to use the keyboard. But you are a lurker.
On November 20 2012 20:46 Blazinghand wrote: Yeah see since there are 13 players in the game I'm just gonna assume there are 3 blues. That makes me an uncontested blue claim and confirmed town, as usual. Get your head in the game, boy-o. Although I'm flattered you've decided to grace us with your presence once again, you should at least try to get up to date with that's going on. ZB flipped miller, debears flipped cop. It's D3. etc etc
Get out. I read the thread. I understand your claim. There could be two blues. It is very likely that you are town. But not certain.
Also. If you are going to continue to act this way I will just do as I please and ignore you. I am sure you wouldn't want that. If you want to be difficult. Fine. Two can play that game.
@ DarthPunk
Let's take about this when you are done with checking my filter. Please read it objectively and try to understand what I was aiming to with the setup speculation. The link to the explantion page on mafiascum wiki is an interesting read for any player anyway.
How about you don't comment on the least important things and the thing I give the fewest fucks about.
Comment on why you were gearing up to push the lynch bait (ME). And why your vote is where it is in your own words.
On November 20 2012 20:57 Blazinghand wrote: Well, admittedly I can't say for sure whether or not you're a baby-- if you are in fact an infant you are highly intelligent and possess great motor co-ordination since you're able to use the keyboard. But you are a lurker.
I'm burnt out dood.
I'm sorry to hear that. Let me know in the end-game if that's true or not.
well, I await the djodref case eagerly.
I can tell you right now it is true. I haven't not played mafia since my first newbie. Pretty much non-stop. Anyway. I'll leave it till post game.
On November 20 2012 21:06 Blazinghand wrote: fair enough. a break from mafia, especially around the holidays, can be good. maybe relax and co-host a game, or coach some newbie games!
Yeah I would love to coach a newbie game. I actually asked thrawn to coach scum in his newbie but he picked Jingle over me
On November 20 2012 20:58 Blazinghand wrote: djodref you think anyone wants to actually look at those posts full of letters and algebra and stuff? especially a busy guy like DP? Really what it comes down to is given the flips and claims, there are 2 blues left alive, and they are me and hopeless1.
lol, okay, I'm going to sum up everything for him.
First things first, you have to check this internet page about C9++, it is a very interesting read, believe.
Second, given the claims and the flips and the lack of night actions at the exception of the mafia kills and BH being RBed, our setup is defined by the following set of letters, MVCCDTT, which gives us a 100% certainty of Hopeless being Luigi and BH being Yoshi.
I'm done with talking now, I'll check Clarity's filter.
LOL you think I haven't read that page? The thing is I don't care about set up speculation. I would not want to lynch BH with no counter claim regardless.
It's great you are done with talking. But you are not BH and if you think you can get away without telling me exactly why S&B is scum you are going to be sorely disappointed.
You may think I am a bad player. and that is fine. I am comparatively to others. But I am not someone who you can roll over very easily. I have only lost one game of mafia in my 8 games. This will NOT be my second.
On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote: Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts.
I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have. MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play. Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you. ##Vote S&B
On November 20 2012 03:25 Djodref wrote: On a personal note, I've like S&B defense during D2, maybe because I'm more emotional than rational, so I'm not totally sure of S&B being the last scum yet even if he is the right person to lynch at the moment. I'm very curious to see what are going to be his next contributions. I'll accept people getting lazy if they can provide me with a case that totally proves that S&B is the last scum.
DOES ANYONE HAVE A BETTER LYNCH THAN S&B TO PROPOSE FOR TODAY ??
Awfully unsure for a guy who's voting to lynch the dude
True enough, I'm only sure of Hopeless and you being confirmed at that point. Iamp and Kickstart still as top town read. Let me check Clarity and I'll come back to you...
Scum. Can only give town reads and those have little substance.
so i was going though his filter again making a case but i ran into this post.
Scum i don't think would call out his own member that quickly would he?
im having a hard time getting past this especially when cross had little attention on him.
You should know this s not true. Cross was a weak player.No doubt they were worried about him in the QT. he would be an ideal bus.
Oh I am back BTW and catching up with the thread. Also everyone calline out my inactivity GTFO. I have a 10 page filter day two. I have pushed my scum reads. Am I playing badly? Sure I am. I have zero motivation right now. It feels like I am doing an assignment. But here I am reading the thread when I have no inclination to do so.
There are some spammers in this game who have fucking mass posted with little fucking content of value. (clarity) Who make this game a chore to read.
I have a strong town read on S&B he is a mislynch. I want to lynch clarity or DJO.
I am total lynch bait right now. Anyone pushing a lynch on me is fucking suspicious. Enter DJo. Subtly wanting to push me and fucking Iamp. like seriously pushing the inactives who he should have a damn town read on??
anyway. Now I am back reading the thread. Heaps of shit is pissing me off which is motivating me in a way. so that is good I guess.
Top Scum reads.
Clarity, Djo.
Cool story bro... I have some doubts about you and they grow larger when you are clearly twisting what I have said. I doubt you can show that I want to push iamp because that it simply a lie.
Sup Scumzor. I can find the post or did I misread the part where you asked BH to comment on both Iamp and myself after heavily implying you had altered your town read on me?
I can guarentee that if he had said he thought we were scummy you would have jumped all over us.
LOL. That you were feeling out a wagon on lynch-bait was so fucking transparent dude. And as I am reading through your filter there is very little that suggests TOWN to me.
@ Darthpunk
I'm wary about you, not about iamp. I just wanted to know if I was on the right tracks for thinking that way. BH is now confirmed and provides some good advices sometimes. I think you are really over reacting when you refer to iamp and you as lynchbaits.
I was very clear that I would never lynch iamp nor Kickstart. You are misinterpreting what I have said or you are full of confirmation bias.
You are full of shit. ROFL.
What you are saying is that you would like to push a lynch on me though?
so i was going though his filter again making a case but i ran into this post.
Scum i don't think would call out his own member that quickly would he?
im having a hard time getting past this especially when cross had little attention on him.
You should know this s not true. Cross was a weak player.No doubt they were worried about him in the QT. he would be an ideal bus.
Oh I am back BTW and catching up with the thread. Also everyone calline out my inactivity GTFO. I have a 10 page filter day two. I have pushed my scum reads. Am I playing badly? Sure I am. I have zero motivation right now. It feels like I am doing an assignment. But here I am reading the thread when I have no inclination to do so.
There are some spammers in this game who have fucking mass posted with little fucking content of value. (clarity) Who make this game a chore to read.
I have a strong town read on S&B he is a mislynch. I want to lynch clarity or DJO.
I am total lynch bait right now. Anyone pushing a lynch on me is fucking suspicious. Enter DJo. Subtly wanting to push me and fucking Iamp. like seriously pushing the inactives who he should have a damn town read on??
anyway. Now I am back reading the thread. Heaps of shit is pissing me off which is motivating me in a way. so that is good I guess.
Top Scum reads.
Clarity, Djo.
Cool story bro... I have some doubts about you and they grow larger when you are clearly twisting what I have said. I doubt you can show that I want to push iamp because that it simply a lie.
Sup Scumzor. I can find the post or did I misread the part where you asked BH to comment on both Iamp and myself after heavily implying you had altered your town read on me?
I can guarentee that if he had said he thought we were scummy you would have jumped all over us.
LOL. That you were feeling out a wagon on lynch-bait was so fucking transparent dude. And as I am reading through your filter there is very little that suggests TOWN to me.
@ Darthpunk
I'm wary about you, not about iamp. I just wanted to know if I was on the right tracks for thinking that way. BH is now confirmed and provides some good advices sometimes. I think you are really over reacting when you refer to iamp and you as lynchbaits.
I was very clear that I would never lynch iamp nor Kickstart. You are misinterpreting what I have said or you are full of confirmation bias.
You are full of shit. ROFL.
What you are saying is that you would like to push a lynch on me though?
Today, absolutely not. Honestly, I really doubt that we need to ever lynch you to finish the game. I've listed the strong town tells you have in your favor. I was just worried about your activity and your lynch of Z-Boson.
Already did. I want to lynch S&B today by the way.
On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote: Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts.
I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have. MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play. Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you. ##Vote S&B
On November 20 2012 03:25 Djodref wrote: On a personal note, I've like S&B defense during D2, maybe because I'm more emotional than rational, so I'm not totally sure of S&B being the last scum yet even if he is the right person to lynch at the moment. I'm very curious to see what are going to be his next contributions. I'll accept people getting lazy if they can provide me with a case that totally proves that S&B is the last scum.
DOES ANYONE HAVE A BETTER LYNCH THAN S&B TO PROPOSE FOR TODAY ??
Awfully unsure for a guy who's voting to lynch the dude
True enough, I'm only sure of Hopeless and you being confirmed at that point. Iamp and Kickstart still as top town read. Let me check Clarity and I'll come back to you...
On November 20 2012 20:58 Blazinghand wrote: djodref you think anyone wants to actually look at those posts full of letters and algebra and stuff? especially a busy guy like DP? Really what it comes down to is given the flips and claims, there are 2 blues left alive, and they are me and hopeless1.
lol, okay, I'm going to sum up everything for him.
First things first, you have to check this internet page about C9++, it is a very interesting read, believe.
Second, given the claims and the flips and the lack of night actions at the exception of the mafia kills and BH being RBed, our setup is defined by the following set of letters, MVCCDTT, which gives us a 100% certainty of Hopeless being Luigi and BH being Yoshi.
I'm done with talking now, I'll check Clarity's filter.
LOL you think I haven't read that page? The thing is I don't care about set up speculation. I would not want to lynch BH with no counter claim regardless.
It's great you are done with talking. But you are not BH and if you think you can get away without telling me exactly why S&B is scum you are going to be sorely disappointed.
You may think I am a bad player. and that is fine. I am comparatively to others. But I am not someone who you can roll over very easily. I have only lost one game of mafia in my 8 games. This will NOT be my second.
I'm not getting away, I have a lot of time ahead of me tonight and I'll give you satisfaction. I'm sorry if you felt that I was calling you a bad player, it was not my intention and I don't see where you got that. I feel that you are angry at me for some reason and I don't see exactly why. I didn't realize that you surely didn't spend the time I've spent speculating on the setup. So I gave you the main points, that is all
Take my word for it, Hopeless and BH are 100% confirmed.
I'm not mad. I just want you to die. Cause you are scum. Nothing personal.
On November 20 2012 20:58 Blazinghand wrote: djodref you think anyone wants to actually look at those posts full of letters and algebra and stuff? especially a busy guy like DP? Really what it comes down to is given the flips and claims, there are 2 blues left alive, and they are me and hopeless1.
lol, okay, I'm going to sum up everything for him.
First things first, you have to check this internet page about C9++, it is a very interesting read, believe.
Second, given the claims and the flips and the lack of night actions at the exception of the mafia kills and BH being RBed, our setup is defined by the following set of letters, MVCCDTT, which gives us a 100% certainty of Hopeless being Luigi and BH being Yoshi.
I'm done with talking now, I'll check Clarity's filter.
LOL you think I haven't read that page? The thing is I don't care about set up speculation. I would not want to lynch BH with no counter claim regardless.
It's great you are done with talking. But you are not BH and if you think you can get away without telling me exactly why S&B is scum you are going to be sorely disappointed.
You may think I am a bad player. and that is fine. I am comparatively to others. But I am not someone who you can roll over very easily. I have only lost one game of mafia in my 8 games. This will NOT be my second.
I'm not getting away, I have a lot of time ahead of me tonight and I'll give you satisfaction. I'm sorry if you felt that I was calling you a bad player, it was not my intention and I don't see where you got that. I feel that you are angry at me for some reason and I don't see exactly why. I didn't realize that you surely didn't spend the time I've spent speculating on the setup. So I gave you the main points, that is all
Take my word for it, Hopeless and BH are 100% confirmed.
Don't go look at his filter to find a reason for your vote. If your vote is on him right now, you have a reason right now. Tell me what the current reason for your vote on S&B is.
On November 16 2012 13:05 Z-BosoN wrote: Djodref, I want to hear your every thought.
First off, why are you voting bh? I´m not sure about your reasoning. Do you agree with my post on the likelihood of scum being on my wagon? What do you make of that assessment? Also, besides blazinghand, who else would you say is scum, and why?
Ok, I think it is a good time now to share my thoughts.
Regarding my BH vote, I think that it is important for everyone to realize that it is possible for him to be scum. I don't want people to discard a BH lynch because his jailkeeper claim is undisputed and because he lynched Hapahauli. At least, I want him to be considered as a lynch candidate, hence my vote. Now I understand that it's unlikely that we lynch BH today but I'll keep on promoting his lynch.
We have already 2 confirmed scum on your wagon when you have 8 votes 5 minutes before lynch time. If they wanted to push a mislynch on you, there was no need of a third scum. It's true that nobody switched back to you when people started to vote Hapa but some people were not present and/or not able to react in time.
Regarding the players on the Hapa wagon, I don't see why they should be automatically town as BH and debears seem to think. Hapa lynch was unlikely to happen when you look at the situation 5 minutes before the lynch and it could have been a smart for a scum player move to jump on the Hapa wagon at this point (because I think that Z-bo would have flipped town) and to cast a distance vote on Bowser, if you were thinking that this wagon was going to fail anyway (as it should have been, imho).
Now here are my thoughts on the remaining players
Blazinghands Top Scumread I want the town to consider at least as a lynch candidate for today.
S&B Scumread Given his D1/N1 play, I'm not opposed to a S&B lynch right now, even if he has not my preference. Nevertheless, I didn't have time to look really carefully at his filter nor the cases against him and that's the first thing I'm going to do after I finish this post. I think I'm going to have a lot of opportunities to discuss his case today and to reevaluate my read on him.
DarthPunk Townread, not planning to spend some time on him today
Hammer vote on Hapa
Pushed as lynch candidate and showed a very townie reaction in his "last" defense
Valid reasons for less activity and participation than its usual townie self
Clarity Back to null read, need to look at him closely today I like Clarity posts and case so far but I've also noticed that he was against a Crossfire lynch after Crossfire case against BH and he tried to convince people not to swicth their votes at the last minute.
Hopeless Confirmed town Confirmed vig at 95%, I'll reconsider if he survives until a LYLO situation or if we have a SK kill.
Iamp Null read, need to evaluate him I didn't take the time to look at iamp yet. Nothing stroke me in his posts when I was out of the game but I'm not considering this as a good sign. I need to look at his filter today.
Kickstart Town read, not planning to spend some time on him today Newbie town read on Kickstart so far. I've been quite good at these kind of reads so far so I'm not planning to spend some time on him yet.
Z-Bo Top Townread, not planning to spend some time on him today
Miller claim
Good contributor
Pushed as a lynch candidate for bad reasons (I liked his defense against the "meta-case" against him)
debears Slight Townread, need to reevaluate I globally liked debears participation and contribution when I was reading the game (i.e not playing). Nevertheless, I don't like how he states that all the players on the Hapa wagon are town. I don't like how he defends BH neither. Need to re-evaluate.
Ok. List post. Seems to contribute but is he actually saying anything commital here? NOt that I can see. aside from lists such as these when he replaced into the game all he was doing was tunnelling BH when he had no right to be and posting lists. Bad start.
Here. After tunnelling BH for a while and doing nothing else useful whatsoever he get;s caught by debears
On November 16 2012 18:17 Djodref wrote: It pisses me off that you don't want to consider a BH lynch given his prestation for all D1/N1. I understand that it is not likely for him to be scum given the circumstances but I think that he has taken advantge of it to auto proclaim himself ”confirmed town” when his play shows the opposite. I don't like this at all and I'm not dropping this case until people start to realize that he is likely to be a goon after all.
It's still early D2 so I'll get some time to consider other players so please don't try to shush by stating that a BH lynch is not going to happen.
Are you sure you aren't scum?
Again, poor wording from my part. I understand why you don't consider likely for him to be scum given the circumstances. But I want you to focus on his play rather than the circumstances because he looks very scummy apart from this.
I understand it is not likely he is scum. Doesn't want him to be confirmed town (ROFL WHAT?) Proceed to tunnel and push a mislynch on him.
He plays it away by stating it was worded poorly but then says the exact same thing. He understands why other don;t think he is scum. But wants people to ignore the fact he is an un-counter claimed JK and still wants to tunnel and lynch him
Ask yourself at this point. Is Djo pushing BH because he thinks he is scum? or because he played poorly and it is easier to tunnel one player and give a lot of town reads with little explanation? I have to go with the latter. If he understands the fundamental reasons that BH is not scum then why does he ignore them and continue to tunnel BH rather than move on once that player is eliminated and try and find actual scum like any normal townie would.
OK. He unvtes BH then Revotes him and tunnels him a bunch. Giving out a heap of town reads along the way and no other scumreads. A heap of Setup Speculation which is easy to use as scum to fake contribute. No scum hunting at all.
On November 18 2012 14:41 iamperfection wrote: s&b like wtf man you just disappear like wtf dude.
I know my little mini case on you is kind of silly with the dota thing is crazy but you could at least call it stupid. DO YOU CARE s&b.
Bh think about your action critically please i will lead the wagon of justice against you myself if you make another dumb play this game.
Also DP want to hear your thoughts in light of zbos flip is clarity who your still thinking now because i dont really see it.
djo i know you think setup speculation but please do some traditional scum hunting before dawn.
I will post updated thoughts in the 1 hour grace period like last time. I will probably be quieter tomorrow because weekends are bad for my mafia play but i will be here 100% during that grace period.
@ iamp
I'm sorry but I don't think that we need traditional scum hunting if we mass-claim. Why would you want to read in details 130 pages of posts when you can use simple logic to find the bad guys ? Are you in or not ?
Anyway I want to lynch BH tomorrow so I'll bring a case against him. S&B is on my side so I'm not inclined to lynch him... I am a bit wary of debears right now because he has been a little stupid wrt the Z-Bo lynch and this is not something I expect from town debears. But it's sunday and he has a long filter and I think there is a better way to solve this game.
LOL wants to mass claim. Cause then we won't have to scum hunt. Does not want to lynch S&B.
More setup speculation.
Ok half way through his filter I find the first serious piece of scumhunting. If you can call it that.
2012 17:48 Djodref wrote:[/B] lol
Ok, I've just read Kickstart filter one more time and I have still a town read on him. But there are some things I don't like in his filter, especially during D2. It's still a town read but I'm not as sure as before.
Why I'm still leaning town on him
The general tone of his posts. He is open about his thought process and seems genuine and honest in his reads. I've got a "newbie-town" feeling when I'm reading his posts and I'm inclined to trust this kind of feeling given my experience in the newbie games when my guts were rarely wrong wrt newb town players.
His last minute vote from nowhere against Hapa (the last one before DarthPunk hammer)
On November 16 2012 10:21 Kickstart wrote: So anyways I looked back over the D1 lynch to read through it more carefully because it was a huge mess. Here are some of my thoughts on it.
Now the townreads aren't set in stone for everyone I put as town nor are the people I didn't mark green suspicious, this is just based off of the D1 lynch and I would like to make a case for why I think these people are town:
Regarding Z-BosoN Here is just an outline of my views on ZB throughout the game so far because my town read on him just builds as time has gone on.
On November 14 2012 00:41 Kickstart wrote: @debears
I have a slight scum read on Hapa at the moment, because of what I outlined in that post and the fact that in general I found his posting to be (trying to find the most polite way to phrase it :D) non-productive.
Hopeless hasn't really stood out to me too much. His posting has been under the radar and not sticking his neck out much, almost his entire filter is the discussion about if crossfire is a smurf or not. So overall I view him as slightly "anti-town" thus far. I would just like to hear more of his thoughts on something/someone not related to cross being a smurf or not.
ZB started the SnB bandwagon which I have already stated I am completely against, so I want to see if he sticks with it. In general his posts have been substantive - out of six posts one is a roleclaim, two he casts a vote on someone and gives some explanation, and then the others he is reacting to/reading people. I see no reason yet to question his miller claim, but again a lot of that could change depending on how he continues with the SnB vote.
With that I am going to go to sleep and won't be back on for awhile. I will try and catch up and post before heading to class but if not I have all night once I get back!
So I did not like the whole SnB bandwagon to begin with and therefor was watching how ZB acted around it but off the bat I felt his posts were pro-town and contributing. ZB came under fire for his new posting habits but the above is part of the reason why I didn't like the meta case and why I refused to lynchvote ZB.
See this quote for more of the same on why I didn't want to lynchvote ZB (made at the time when a large number of votes were on him):
On November 15 2012 09:57 Kickstart wrote: Regarding Z-Boson I am not comfortable with a lynch on ZB. So he is playing differently and posting less, but when I take a look at his filter I see some very lengthy and thought out posts that offer good analysis. I don't think that lynching him due to him posting differently this game is fair, especially when his posts are pretty significant (I said earlier that even though his filter wasn't large, every post contributed something). I take Hapas word that before this game even started he talked with ZB and ZB discussed wanting to change his posting style a bit (though a skype log would be nice!). Why lynch someone who has changed their posting style when you could be lynching someone who isn't being pro-town at all:
Regarding Hopeless1der Look at his filter, there is NO attempt to find scum, the only person he gos after is debears, but only after debears went after him. The first half of his filter is talk about people being afk and/or smurfs - this really doesn't help at all. And his post where he reads debears: + Show Spoiler +
On November 14 2012 14:54 debears wrote: For all you who think me being afk is a scumtell, which you guys are retarded if you do
Let me just say this once. Fuck off debears. Nothing personal, but in all seriousness OMGUS. I'm still your scum read because I've done nothing since you laid into me for 'lecturing town'. If you still want to harp on that chord, you're not being a good little townie. I was afk for longer than you were, and you have nothing new to post in the thread.
I'll lay this out for you. This is the post I was "lecturing" about:
On November 13 2012 10:44 marvellosity wrote: you can't active lurk in a game that's less than 2 hours old, numbnuts.
If anyone's 'active lurking' it's me. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Don't shut people down who are obviously trying their best to scum hunt and contribute. You are only going to discourage those things. Or is that what you want?
I was not lecturing everyone, I was responding to a single post and listing multiple examples of less than stellar reasons to vote for someone.
I was told to drop it with you so you could focus on the rest of the game instead, because I was distracting you from being useful.
On November 14 2012 00:17 marvellosity wrote: Hopeless, I think you're making too much of that. The bit you bold says "was" - past tense, that was his stance previously (when he'd missed my Crossfire post).
Like debears said just now there's not a lot to say about Crossfire otherwise, you can't really have a stance on someone who hasn't posted yet.
The whole issue is overblown and should be dropped. If only because it's a big distraction to debears, who has to keep talking about it, and it's not helping anyone
And yet I'm still your top scum read and iamperfection is still the only other player you'll really talk about. You haven't commented on anything significant (neither have I yet, but fuck it, you're already voting me)
I dont give a shit what your IRL issues are, same as you probably dont care why I was gone. I care that you claim that there are no better cases than the one on me when you have no new information and are just stuck on the fact that I'm afk and therefore avoiding you. What's more, you aren't even pushing me as your scum read. Yes this is an OMGUS vote. ##Vote: debears
Am I going to need to pull a BH and shoot my load earl--I mean sift through my own meta to find examples of me being a jackass? Btw debears, why in the hell were you unable/unwilling to comment on BH's claim?
On November 15 2012 06:27 Hopeless1der wrote: In response to Z-Bo's case on me:
- No comment on BH should still hold merit as an attack against debears, especially if used as a contributing factor to my own scumminess.
Meta read - Earlier you said my meta this game was comparable to LVII. You've 180'd that read. I have no conclusion here, I'm just pointing it out.
Other points from meta: Me referring back to previous cases. I had an actual case to refer back to, and I was also much more convinced by that case. This game, we have me being inactive, Cross being modkillable the first 24 hours or so, thrawn afk, DP afk, BH trolling. Lots of things that just sucked bag. In LVII, we have Matt claim scum super early and the ensuing discussions were getting excessively redundant until Palmar came in and confirmed Matt was fakeclaiming. Before that, I was trying to focus the thread a little. This game is no where near as out of control as that situation was and also (IRL bullshit that no one cares about)
Since BH has claimed, I find debears to be incredibly scummy, and Marv made a point of articulating already. I felt he was scummy before from the way he attacked me for lecturing and it being anti-town. I also felt his meta/smurf's are unreadable comments were contradictory and he was twisting words to make a case on me based on very little information. However, I was explicitly told to drop my suspicions because they were a) poorly thought out and b) distracting debears from helping town.
He hasn't helped town. Hapa's case on debears is spot on (in my heavily biased opinion) and I don't want to lynch anyone else right now.
His only reason for voting debears is that debears made a read on him and voted him.
On November 15 2012 09:21 Hopeless1der wrote: @Marv's case on Z-Boson - Quite frankly, if it saves me, I'll vote Z-boson, otherwise my vote stays parked on debears. I still think Z-Bo is town though, I just happen to know I'm town.
I don't like this at all. Hopeless clearly states that he views ZB is town, earlier in the game ZB makes a small meta case and hopeless doesn't vote him (rightfully so) - but now he will throw his vote on ZB??? You don't scum hunt at all, say you view ZB as town but are willing to vote for him, and keep your vote parked on debears all game solely because debears made a read on you and threw his vote your way. This is not town oriented play in my opinion.
Then there is the day 1 voting. ZB was one of the potential lynch candidates and at a point it seemed he was goign to be the lynch (with 8 votes on his head no less!): Note that this is right before the wild swing of votes to Hapa, so had that note happened it was ZB getting lynched.
On November 15 2012 10:55 Z-BosoN wrote: LYNCH HAPAHAULI.
LYNCH BLAZINGHAND. when he is alive day 3.
marv, hope you learn you are not the fucking god of mafia, and see that meta reads are only worth it if it isn't fucking obvious stylistic proven logical and pre-claimed reasons.
Turns out he was right (halfway at least but I suspect 100% right ^^). So in summation I've always felt pretty good about ZB and then the D1 lynch just solidified it.
Regarding DarthPunk Basically I agree with and echo the idea that when DP was set to be lynched, he did an extremely good job of showing that he was town. And an interesting note is that like ZB, when DP thought he was the lynch, he names Hapa and BH aswell :
On November 15 2012 10:34 iamperfection wrote: DP DO NOT RUN AWAY IF YOUR TOWN. Give reads on the people voting on you.
I just did.
more
How about this. I was probably not going to be lynched until two of the best town players I know who are very rarely wrong about scum reads lead the most retarded wagon in the world on me which is wrong.
So either they are worse than I thought. Can't read me at all or are scum.
Hapa is not playing the same as GSL he is playing worse. Hi scum game is townie though so be wary of that. But he is not giving the confident and often correct reads taht he usually gives as town.
He is starting up a stupid fucking wagon that he is usually wary of as town. Hapa is like the fucking divine presence of level headedness usually but this band wagon is not it.
BH I have never played with before. But he is reading scum into things that should not be read as scummy. SO he might just be worse than I thought.
Marv is actually fucking right although rightly confused but seems townie from genuinely wanting to figure shit out rather than leap onto a retarded wagon.
Also.
How much fucking conviction does BH have in his reads when I am so scummy but then he insta votes for a fucking Coin toss.
BH is scum. Because he doesn't give a fuck about the lynch as long as he lynches a townie.
So those are my two strong town reads out of the lynch. Again the others I showed as green or did not is only an indication of how I viewed the lynch (some of the people I left unmarked I feel are very likely town for example).
As for the people I had marked as SCUM: Well, Hapa doesn't need much explaining :D (GJ town!).
Regarding Hopeless1der Before the lynch I posted my read of him, and so far it all remains relevant:
On November 15 2012 09:57 Kickstart wrote: Regarding Z-Boson I am not comfortable with a lynch on ZB. So he is playing differently and posting less, but when I take a look at his filter I see some very lengthy and thought out posts that offer good analysis. I don't think that lynching him due to him posting differently this game is fair, especially when his posts are pretty significant (I said earlier that even though his filter wasn't large, every post contributed something). I take Hapas word that before this game even started he talked with ZB and ZB discussed wanting to change his posting style a bit (though a skype log would be nice!). Why lynch someone who has changed their posting style when you could be lynching someone who isn't being pro-town at all:
Regarding Hopeless1der Look at his filter, there is NO attempt to find scum, the only person he gos after is debears, but only after debears went after him. The first half of his filter is talk about people being afk and/or smurfs - this really doesn't help at all. And his post where he reads debears: + Show Spoiler +
On November 14 2012 14:54 debears wrote: For all you who think me being afk is a scumtell, which you guys are retarded if you do
Let me just say this once. Fuck off debears. Nothing personal, but in all seriousness OMGUS. I'm still your scum read because I've done nothing since you laid into me for 'lecturing town'. If you still want to harp on that chord, you're not being a good little townie. I was afk for longer than you were, and you have nothing new to post in the thread.
I'll lay this out for you. This is the post I was "lecturing" about:
On November 13 2012 10:44 marvellosity wrote: you can't active lurk in a game that's less than 2 hours old, numbnuts.
If anyone's 'active lurking' it's me. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Don't shut people down who are obviously trying their best to scum hunt and contribute. You are only going to discourage those things. Or is that what you want?
I was not lecturing everyone, I was responding to a single post and listing multiple examples of less than stellar reasons to vote for someone.
I was told to drop it with you so you could focus on the rest of the game instead, because I was distracting you from being useful.
On November 14 2012 00:17 marvellosity wrote: Hopeless, I think you're making too much of that. The bit you bold says "was" - past tense, that was his stance previously (when he'd missed my Crossfire post).
Like debears said just now there's not a lot to say about Crossfire otherwise, you can't really have a stance on someone who hasn't posted yet.
The whole issue is overblown and should be dropped. If only because it's a big distraction to debears, who has to keep talking about it, and it's not helping anyone
And yet I'm still your top scum read and iamperfection is still the only other player you'll really talk about. You haven't commented on anything significant (neither have I yet, but fuck it, you're already voting me)
I dont give a shit what your IRL issues are, same as you probably dont care why I was gone. I care that you claim that there are no better cases than the one on me when you have no new information and are just stuck on the fact that I'm afk and therefore avoiding you. What's more, you aren't even pushing me as your scum read. Yes this is an OMGUS vote. ##Vote: debears
Am I going to need to pull a BH and shoot my load earl--I mean sift through my own meta to find examples of me being a jackass? Btw debears, why in the hell were you unable/unwilling to comment on BH's claim?
On November 15 2012 06:27 Hopeless1der wrote: In response to Z-Bo's case on me:
- No comment on BH should still hold merit as an attack against debears, especially if used as a contributing factor to my own scumminess.
Meta read - Earlier you said my meta this game was comparable to LVII. You've 180'd that read. I have no conclusion here, I'm just pointing it out.
Other points from meta: Me referring back to previous cases. I had an actual case to refer back to, and I was also much more convinced by that case. This game, we have me being inactive, Cross being modkillable the first 24 hours or so, thrawn afk, DP afk, BH trolling. Lots of things that just sucked bag. In LVII, we have Matt claim scum super early and the ensuing discussions were getting excessively redundant until Palmar came in and confirmed Matt was fakeclaiming. Before that, I was trying to focus the thread a little. This game is no where near as out of control as that situation was and also (IRL bullshit that no one cares about)
Since BH has claimed, I find debears to be incredibly scummy, and Marv made a point of articulating already. I felt he was scummy before from the way he attacked me for lecturing and it being anti-town. I also felt his meta/smurf's are unreadable comments were contradictory and he was twisting words to make a case on me based on very little information. However, I was explicitly told to drop my suspicions because they were a) poorly thought out and b) distracting debears from helping town.
He hasn't helped town. Hapa's case on debears is spot on (in my heavily biased opinion) and I don't want to lynch anyone else right now.
His only reason for voting debears is that debears made a read on him and voted him.
On November 15 2012 09:21 Hopeless1der wrote: @Marv's case on Z-Boson - Quite frankly, if it saves me, I'll vote Z-boson, otherwise my vote stays parked on debears. I still think Z-Bo is town though, I just happen to know I'm town.
I don't like this at all. Hopeless clearly states that he views ZB is town, earlier in the game ZB makes a small meta case and hopeless doesn't vote him (rightfully so) - but now he will throw his vote on ZB??? You don't scum hunt at all, say you view ZB as town but are willing to vote for him, and keep your vote parked on debears all game solely because debears made a read on you and threw his vote your way. This is not town oriented play in my opinion.
I just feel that his anti-town tone has continued on through the lynch and after. As for the lynch itself hopeless NEVER stuck his neck out, he constantly stayed on debears the entire time (not that hapa temporarily switch over to debears apparantlytrying to start a wagon on him?):
On November 15 2012 10:46 debears wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote Hopeless
Plz for the love of god vote hopeless ppl
Can we please lynch this guy? Please?
##Vote Debears
The only thing that gives me a bit of reservation is that hopeless could have saved hapa had he switched his vote off of debears and put it on ZB at any time. But then I don't really think anyone was expecting hapa to get lynched.
Regarding strongandbig Just take a look at this guys filter and then couple that with his votes and tell me it isn't suspicious as hell. SnB, like hopeless, never sticks his neck out on any reads and just agrees or disagrees with other peoples points. Couple that with his votes (ignore the hapa vote, it was at the VERY start of the game and it was a complete joke vote; he only votes for debears, blazinghand, and ZB). He was also oddly quiet during the pile onto hapa - while being there to laugh the most and mkae jokes afterwards??
Some reservations I have about snb is that he has gone after both hapa and hopeless postings (hapa who we know is scum and hopeless who I have the strongest read on at the moment), but scum dissing on scum isn't unheard of. Another reservation is that he has gone after BH hardcore, who I would be just as willing to lunch at this point as snb (though I would still rather go after my top read atm - hopeless).
Anyways there you have it, hopefully night actions reveal some more stuffs.
On November 13 2012 16:52 Kickstart wrote: Here is why I have doubts about Hapa. Hapa starts off by being the first one to cast a "pointless vote" at the start of the day. + Show Spoiler +
On November 13 2012 09:15 Clarity_nl wrote: I don't think anyone will be against millers claiming and a lurker lynch policy. If they are they should speak up. Otherwise we really don't need to mention it again.
Oh hum I need something more controversial then.
Howabout the lynch DarthPunk policy? I have a hard time reading him and rolls scum 66% of the time when I'm in game with him. Sample size be damned!
##Vote DarthPunk
I see that several people did this and were joking but I don't like it much and Hapa is the first to do it, which is even more interesting because soon after he states that the random vote gambit is far overused ;/ : + Show Spoiler +
On November 13 2012 09:37 Hapahauli wrote: @iamp
The "random vote" gambit has been far overused. I'm not a fan.
I'd comment on your post, but I'm not even sure what you're talking about there.
On November 13 2012 10:50 debears wrote: Does S&B normally act like this?
Just curious :D
Feel free to answer that S&B
Well it's weird for sure. I'm used to seeing scum SnB be a lot more "wordy" when he posts. Atleast this was the case in Mafia LVII and Death Note Mini. Howwwwwweva, this post really sets off my scum alarms:
On November 13 2012 09:41 Z-BosoN wrote: Hello, sirs. First of all I´d like to claim miller. There are two very viable options now, regarding my alignment on this game.
I am fakeclaiming as mafia. I am in fact a miller.
My claim here would be fairly risky as scum, and as town it makes more sense to claim so as to not waste detective checks on me, but of course this is WIFOM. I hope to show my alignment in this game through brilliant, stellar townie play, and hope town uses this factor and this factor alone when scouting my alignment. The only thing I hope to achieve with this claim is to not be checked by an eventual cop, as that check will be guaranteed to turn red.
That being said, I look forward to playing this game. Lot's of familiar faces around, and I am curious to hear more from people I haven't played yet.
Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out
HI ZB <3.
Yeah ZB will figure me out If I am scum, and Vice Versa. Hapa will figure marv out and marv will figure everyone out.
GG scummers
But what if me, ZB, and marv are all scum o_O
Then Blazinghand, Debears and I will rip you all a new arsehole. <3
On November 13 2012 09:45 iamperfection wrote: i guess theirs no reason not to believe zbos right? has to be to risky to do if he was scum right.
Woah woah hold-up. I'm not liking how you're trusting this claim right away.
Claiming miller is a pretty much a riskless play here. We don't know how many millers are in the setup, and as far as I'm concerned, the claim is null until Z-Bo proves otherwise.
its what i think so whatever. Zbos scum is gone put himself out there like that i dont think so.
It's not "so whatever" - I'm pretty skeptical how you're so willing to think Z-Bo is town off what looks to me like a completely null action.
Hapa, last time you did that little spoiler trick (GsL III), you were the role that you put in the spoiler.
Here, you put bowser. Now why would you put bowser out of all the scum roles? It seems to me like you were actively thinking of bowser, which you shouldn't be if you are town. I would expect you to put a town role in that spoiler
this is stupid
He calls debears argument/suspicion on me stupid, when he himself has his vote on me. It's not consistent at all with his suspicions so far, and I can't wrap my head around a townie thought process here.
## Vote StrongandBig
At least he stays away from voting based on the VT claim post but he starts out by inferring that if SnB were scum he would be posting differently and then votes him anyways based on the "this is stupid" comment (which to be fair to SnB I agree with him, the whole point about putting your role in a spoiler is silly).
On November 14 2012 11:47 Kickstart wrote: Wowzers that was a lot to catch up on, I really tried to post before heading off to school but there was way too much to read and process. I was 100% down with lynching BH... and then he claims jk. I still don't like his posting before or after the claim and think that the claim did no one other than himself any good. I would love to flip him just to see, because the way I see it, at worst he is scum trying to save himself (but as stated before that would be REALLY reckless) and at best he is now deadweight.
For me the best thing I feel I have to go off of is looking at peoples votes and trying to pick out the scumvotes, and I still think the SnB bandwagon had some scum attached to it (who were basically forced to switch their votes after it being called out for what it was). Top scum read for me is still Hapa. I think he hopped on the SnB wagon, then tried to start an iamp one (with BH, so that is part of the reason I was 100% down for lynching BH and if he flipped red I would have insta voted Hapa - but then BH claimed so....), and now he is voting for debears with everyone else.
I suppose it is time to put my vote where my mouth is, but I would like to hear other peoples thoughts on Hapa. If most others are getting scum read on him (which some people have already posted that they are) I would like to hear why, likewise if someone thinks hes town I want to hear why.
##Vote: Hapahauli
and @Hapa No hard feelings, you have been very kind to me in your posts which I do appreciate but I can't let that influence my reads.
So were my points at the time valid? I'm not sure what to think of this because it seems that I had it right but at the time got no support. Did I not provide enough analysis/reasoning? Was it just unconvincing? ;/
where it looks like he wants to get town cred for having been suspicious of Hapa from the beginning. I really didn't like this post but I've made this king of mistake when I was Cop in my first game.
On November 18 2012 12:58 Kickstart wrote: Man shit I'm sorry I slept right through the lynch, but I wouldn't of changed my vote off of SnB anyways. I've stated all along that my strongest town read was on ZB so I was not going to vote for him this early on - seems I was right :S. Going forward I think the order of our lynches should be:
1st or 2nd: SNB and DJO (SnB first, still the person I find scummiest) 3rd: Clarity (though I don't have a strong scum read on him, I haven't read him as town all game and all the other players I feel are more town than him). 4th: BH (because if we get rid of those 3 and no new developments are made, it is time to get rid of BH finally for his shenanigans).
because it looks like he is setting-up the lynches for the next few days regardless of what is going to happen. I don't like this at all because I still do not understand why I'm on this list and he didn't comment yet S&B play during D2 which was quite different from D1.
The points against him are not strong and I hope that he can provide good explanations for them. I think that he got lazy during D2 and this is something I can understand given the flips so far.
My conclusion is that he is a first time player, which I'm leaning town on, and that it could be quite difficult for him to keep up with all what happens in this very active game but I hope than he can provide good play as he did during D1 and I would be satisfied with that. [/QUOTE]
Way to say something without saying anything at all.
Here is why I think he is town
Here is why he could be scum
All in all I think he is a new player.
Like wtf?!?!? Not contributing not scum hunting and a wishy-washy nothing of a first case 5 pages into his filter.
More setup speculation.
Useless shit like this comprises 99% of his activity.
On November 18 2012 17:59 Djodref wrote: @ debears
I disagree, it could be a good strategy for a possible SK to retain his night kills until we manage to find the last scum. What does make you think that a possible SK would kill tonight ?
1) Assuming that the SK isn't hopeless, he could put doubt on hopeless' claim. 2) it's what, 8/7 town to 1 scum/sk or 1 scum and sk 3) The longer the game goes on, the harder it is to conceal a guilty conscience/push your agenda as sk/mafia
@ debears
1)That's actually a good point. I don't think that hopeless could be SK even with another kill because he killed Crossfire and that would have been against a SK interest. But I've just realized that there was no way for a SK Hopeless to know for sure that Cross was scum when he decided to kill. By the way, would you yourself doubt Hopeless claim if we have 2 kills again tonight ? I remember that Hopeless was on your radar during D1. 2)That's also a good point. But it depends on the strategy you would choose as a SK. I don't know about it... 3)I disagree with this one because a possible SK would not know who the last scum is better than us. He would have no other thing to do than to scumhunt hard while not killing anyone and hope to survive until lylo. You don't have any guilty conscience if you didn't kill anyone, right ?
Talks about set-up and breadcrumbs..
ZZZZ
UOTE]On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote: Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts.
I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have. MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play. Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you. ##Vote S&B[/QUOTE]
Look at his vote on S&B no real reason. Only that he is voting BH someone who he had just tunnelled like forever. NO case. No scum hunting and a vote on the popular candidate.
ZZZ more setup speculation. there is literally ZERO scumhunting in his filter.
On November 20 2012 03:25 Djodref wrote: On a personal note, I've like S&B defense during D2, maybe because I'm more emotional than rational, so I'm not totally sure of S&B being the last scum yet even if he is the right person to lynch at the moment. I'm very curious to see what are going to be his next contributions. I'll accept people getting lazy if they can provide me with a case that totally proves that S&B is the last scum.
What the is he saying here? That's right. Nothing at all apart from distancing himself from a mislynch.
On November 20 2012 03:22 Clarity_nl wrote: I don't have anything against you. That's not how this game works.
I'm trying to ignore thrawn's stuff altogether but it's obviously in the back of my head. Although the setup speculation helped it really got on my nerves and it seemed to be all you were willing to talk about. I haven't made a case on you because I haven't been focusing on you much, and there's nothing that stands out as inherently scummy. But look at the players we'll have left after snb gets lynched (assuming he flips town). To me everyone on that list is rather townie, and you are probably the least towny out of them atm.
Your argument that darth hasn't taken advantage of his position can be said about hopeless and kickstart as well.
@ Clarity
The setup speculation allows us to have 100% confirmed blues right now. And the last scum is not able to fakeclaim if get close to his sorry ass... Honestly, if Hopeless was not a confirmed Vig, I would be all over him right now. Regarding Kickstart, we need to give him more room so he can post more. Also I think we should listen to what he is saying. First games are always depressing when every other player is coming at you for the scummy things that you inevitably post and never acknowledge what you are saying. I understand that he could get bored in his position. But Darthpunk is not in the same position as Hopeless and Kickstart. He has won his Acme game so he should have more time to spare with us.
More of this shit. This is like his whole filter. talk about set-up call out some lynch bait. Rinse and repeat.
NO scumhunting. NO real contributions. NO reason for Voting. NO Impetus to find out who the scum are.
Acting as if he is contributing when in fact his filter contains nothing.
On November 20 2012 20:58 Blazinghand wrote: djodref you think anyone wants to actually look at those posts full of letters and algebra and stuff? especially a busy guy like DP? Really what it comes down to is given the flips and claims, there are 2 blues left alive, and they are me and hopeless1.
lol, okay, I'm going to sum up everything for him.
First things first, you have to check this internet page about C9++, it is a very interesting read, believe.
Second, given the claims and the flips and the lack of night actions at the exception of the mafia kills and BH being RBed, our setup is defined by the following set of letters, MVCCDTT, which gives us a 100% certainty of Hopeless being Luigi and BH being Yoshi.
I'm done with talking now, I'll check Clarity's filter.
LOL you think I haven't read that page? The thing is I don't care about set up speculation. I would not want to lynch BH with no counter claim regardless.
It's great you are done with talking. But you are not BH and if you think you can get away without telling me exactly why S&B is scum you are going to be sorely disappointed.
You may think I am a bad player. and that is fine. I am comparatively to others. But I am not someone who you can roll over very easily. I have only lost one game of mafia in my 8 games. This will NOT be my second.
@ DarthPunk
Maybe you should take care of setup speculation. You would have understood that lynching the uncontested miller was as bad as lynching the uncontested jailkeeper. Here, I'm saying that we were both bad
On November 16 2012 13:05 Z-BosoN wrote: Djodref, I want to hear your every thought.
First off, why are you voting bh? I´m not sure about your reasoning. Do you agree with my post on the likelihood of scum being on my wagon? What do you make of that assessment? Also, besides blazinghand, who else would you say is scum, and why?
Ok, I think it is a good time now to share my thoughts.
Regarding my BH vote, I think that it is important for everyone to realize that it is possible for him to be scum. I don't want people to discard a BH lynch because his jailkeeper claim is undisputed and because he lynched Hapahauli. At least, I want him to be considered as a lynch candidate, hence my vote. Now I understand that it's unlikely that we lynch BH today but I'll keep on promoting his lynch.
We have already 2 confirmed scum on your wagon when you have 8 votes 5 minutes before lynch time. If they wanted to push a mislynch on you, there was no need of a third scum. It's true that nobody switched back to you when people started to vote Hapa but some people were not present and/or not able to react in time.
Regarding the players on the Hapa wagon, I don't see why they should be automatically town as BH and debears seem to think. Hapa lynch was unlikely to happen when you look at the situation 5 minutes before the lynch and it could have been a smart for a scum player move to jump on the Hapa wagon at this point (because I think that Z-bo would have flipped town) and to cast a distance vote on Bowser, if you were thinking that this wagon was going to fail anyway (as it should have been, imho).
Now here are my thoughts on the remaining players
Blazinghands Top Scumread I want the town to consider at least as a lynch candidate for today.
S&B Scumread Given his D1/N1 play, I'm not opposed to a S&B lynch right now, even if he has not my preference. Nevertheless, I didn't have time to look really carefully at his filter nor the cases against him and that's the first thing I'm going to do after I finish this post. I think I'm going to have a lot of opportunities to discuss his case today and to reevaluate my read on him.
DarthPunk Townread, not planning to spend some time on him today
Hammer vote on Hapa
Pushed as lynch candidate and showed a very townie reaction in his "last" defense
Valid reasons for less activity and participation than its usual townie self
Clarity Back to null read, need to look at him closely today I like Clarity posts and case so far but I've also noticed that he was against a Crossfire lynch after Crossfire case against BH and he tried to convince people not to swicth their votes at the last minute.
Hopeless Confirmed town Confirmed vig at 95%, I'll reconsider if he survives until a LYLO situation or if we have a SK kill.
Iamp Null read, need to evaluate him I didn't take the time to look at iamp yet. Nothing stroke me in his posts when I was out of the game but I'm not considering this as a good sign. I need to look at his filter today.
Kickstart Town read, not planning to spend some time on him today Newbie town read on Kickstart so far. I've been quite good at these kind of reads so far so I'm not planning to spend some time on him yet.
Z-Bo Top Townread, not planning to spend some time on him today
Miller claim
Good contributor
Pushed as a lynch candidate for bad reasons (I liked his defense against the "meta-case" against him)
debears Slight Townread, need to reevaluate I globally liked debears participation and contribution when I was reading the game (i.e not playing). Nevertheless, I don't like how he states that all the players on the Hapa wagon are town. I don't like how he defends BH neither. Need to re-evaluate.
Ok. List post. Seems to contribute but is he actually saying anything commital here? NOt that I can see. aside from lists such as these when he replaced into the game all he was doing was tunnelling BH when he had no right to be and posting lists. Bad start.
Here. After tunnelling BH for a while and doing nothing else useful whatsoever he get;s caught by debears
On November 16 2012 18:17 Djodref wrote: It pisses me off that you don't want to consider a BH lynch given his prestation for all D1/N1. I understand that it is not likely for him to be scum given the circumstances but I think that he has taken advantge of it to auto proclaim himself ”confirmed town” when his play shows the opposite. I don't like this at all and I'm not dropping this case until people start to realize that he is likely to be a goon after all.
It's still early D2 so I'll get some time to consider other players so please don't try to shush by stating that a BH lynch is not going to happen.
Are you sure you aren't scum?
Again, poor wording from my part. I understand why you don't consider likely for him to be scum given the circumstances. But I want you to focus on his play rather than the circumstances because he looks very scummy apart from this.
I understand it is not likely he is scum. Doesn't want him to be confirmed town (ROFL WHAT?) Proceed to tunnel and push a mislynch on him.
He plays it away by stating it was worded poorly but then says the exact same thing. He understands why other don;t think he is scum. But wants people to ignore the fact he is an un-counter claimed JK and still wants to tunnel and lynch him
Ask yourself at this point. Is Djo pushing BH because he thinks he is scum? or because he played poorly and it is easier to tunnel one player and give a lot of town reads with little explanation? I have to go with the latter. If he understands the fundamental reasons that BH is not scum then why does he ignore them and continue to tunnel BH rather than move on once that player is eliminated and try and find actual scum like any normal townie would.
OK. He unvtes BH then Revotes him and tunnels him a bunch. Giving out a heap of town reads along the way and no other scumreads. A heap of Setup Speculation which is easy to use as scum to fake contribute. No scum hunting at all.
On November 18 2012 14:41 iamperfection wrote: s&b like wtf man you just disappear like wtf dude.
I know my little mini case on you is kind of silly with the dota thing is crazy but you could at least call it stupid. DO YOU CARE s&b.
Bh think about your action critically please i will lead the wagon of justice against you myself if you make another dumb play this game.
Also DP want to hear your thoughts in light of zbos flip is clarity who your still thinking now because i dont really see it.
djo i know you think setup speculation but please do some traditional scum hunting before dawn.
I will post updated thoughts in the 1 hour grace period like last time. I will probably be quieter tomorrow because weekends are bad for my mafia play but i will be here 100% during that grace period.
@ iamp
I'm sorry but I don't think that we need traditional scum hunting if we mass-claim. Why would you want to read in details 130 pages of posts when you can use simple logic to find the bad guys ? Are you in or not ?
Anyway I want to lynch BH tomorrow so I'll bring a case against him. S&B is on my side so I'm not inclined to lynch him... I am a bit wary of debears right now because he has been a little stupid wrt the Z-Bo lynch and this is not something I expect from town debears. But it's sunday and he has a long filter and I think there is a better way to solve this game.
LOL wants to mass claim. Cause then we won't have to scum hunt. Does not want to lynch S&B.
More setup speculation.
Ok half way through his filter I find the first serious piece of scumhunting. If you can call it that.
Djodref wrote: lol
Ok, I've just read Kickstart filter one more time and I have still a town read on him. But there are some things I don't like in his filter, especially during D2. It's still a town read but I'm not as sure as before.
Why I'm still leaning town on him
The general tone of his posts. He is open about his thought process and seems genuine and honest in his reads. I've got a "newbie-town" feeling when I'm reading his posts and I'm inclined to trust this kind of feeling given my experience in the newbie games when my guts were rarely wrong wrt newb town players.
His last minute vote from nowhere against Hapa (the last one before DarthPunk hammer)
On November 16 2012 10:21 Kickstart wrote: So anyways I looked back over the D1 lynch to read through it more carefully because it was a huge mess. Here are some of my thoughts on it.
Now the townreads aren't set in stone for everyone I put as town nor are the people I didn't mark green suspicious, this is just based off of the D1 lynch and I would like to make a case for why I think these people are town:
Regarding Z-BosoN Here is just an outline of my views on ZB throughout the game so far because my town read on him just builds as time has gone on.
On November 14 2012 00:41 Kickstart wrote: @debears
I have a slight scum read on Hapa at the moment, because of what I outlined in that post and the fact that in general I found his posting to be (trying to find the most polite way to phrase it :D) non-productive.
Hopeless hasn't really stood out to me too much. His posting has been under the radar and not sticking his neck out much, almost his entire filter is the discussion about if crossfire is a smurf or not. So overall I view him as slightly "anti-town" thus far. I would just like to hear more of his thoughts on something/someone not related to cross being a smurf or not.
ZB started the SnB bandwagon which I have already stated I am completely against, so I want to see if he sticks with it. In general his posts have been substantive - out of six posts one is a roleclaim, two he casts a vote on someone and gives some explanation, and then the others he is reacting to/reading people. I see no reason yet to question his miller claim, but again a lot of that could change depending on how he continues with the SnB vote.
With that I am going to go to sleep and won't be back on for awhile. I will try and catch up and post before heading to class but if not I have all night once I get back!
So I did not like the whole SnB bandwagon to begin with and therefor was watching how ZB acted around it but off the bat I felt his posts were pro-town and contributing. ZB came under fire for his new posting habits but the above is part of the reason why I didn't like the meta case and why I refused to lynchvote ZB.
See this quote for more of the same on why I didn't want to lynchvote ZB (made at the time when a large number of votes were on him):
On November 15 2012 09:57 Kickstart wrote: Regarding Z-Boson I am not comfortable with a lynch on ZB. So he is playing differently and posting less, but when I take a look at his filter I see some very lengthy and thought out posts that offer good analysis. I don't think that lynching him due to him posting differently this game is fair, especially when his posts are pretty significant (I said earlier that even though his filter wasn't large, every post contributed something). I take Hapas word that before this game even started he talked with ZB and ZB discussed wanting to change his posting style a bit (though a skype log would be nice!). Why lynch someone who has changed their posting style when you could be lynching someone who isn't being pro-town at all:
Regarding Hopeless1der Look at his filter, there is NO attempt to find scum, the only person he gos after is debears, but only after debears went after him. The first half of his filter is talk about people being afk and/or smurfs - this really doesn't help at all. And his post where he reads debears: + Show Spoiler +
On November 14 2012 14:54 debears wrote: For all you who think me being afk is a scumtell, which you guys are retarded if you do
Let me just say this once. Fuck off debears. Nothing personal, but in all seriousness OMGUS. I'm still your scum read because I've done nothing since you laid into me for 'lecturing town'. If you still want to harp on that chord, you're not being a good little townie. I was afk for longer than you were, and you have nothing new to post in the thread.
I'll lay this out for you. This is the post I was "lecturing" about:
On November 13 2012 10:44 marvellosity wrote: you can't active lurk in a game that's less than 2 hours old, numbnuts.
If anyone's 'active lurking' it's me. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Don't shut people down who are obviously trying their best to scum hunt and contribute. You are only going to discourage those things. Or is that what you want?
I was not lecturing everyone, I was responding to a single post and listing multiple examples of less than stellar reasons to vote for someone.
I was told to drop it with you so you could focus on the rest of the game instead, because I was distracting you from being useful.
On November 14 2012 00:17 marvellosity wrote: Hopeless, I think you're making too much of that. The bit you bold says "was" - past tense, that was his stance previously (when he'd missed my Crossfire post).
Like debears said just now there's not a lot to say about Crossfire otherwise, you can't really have a stance on someone who hasn't posted yet.
The whole issue is overblown and should be dropped. If only because it's a big distraction to debears, who has to keep talking about it, and it's not helping anyone
And yet I'm still your top scum read and iamperfection is still the only other player you'll really talk about. You haven't commented on anything significant (neither have I yet, but fuck it, you're already voting me)
I dont give a shit what your IRL issues are, same as you probably dont care why I was gone. I care that you claim that there are no better cases than the one on me when you have no new information and are just stuck on the fact that I'm afk and therefore avoiding you. What's more, you aren't even pushing me as your scum read. Yes this is an OMGUS vote. ##Vote: debears
Am I going to need to pull a BH and shoot my load earl--I mean sift through my own meta to find examples of me being a jackass? Btw debears, why in the hell were you unable/unwilling to comment on BH's claim?
On November 15 2012 06:27 Hopeless1der wrote: In response to Z-Bo's case on me:
- No comment on BH should still hold merit as an attack against debears, especially if used as a contributing factor to my own scumminess.
Meta read - Earlier you said my meta this game was comparable to LVII. You've 180'd that read. I have no conclusion here, I'm just pointing it out.
Other points from meta: Me referring back to previous cases. I had an actual case to refer back to, and I was also much more convinced by that case. This game, we have me being inactive, Cross being modkillable the first 24 hours or so, thrawn afk, DP afk, BH trolling. Lots of things that just sucked bag. In LVII, we have Matt claim scum super early and the ensuing discussions were getting excessively redundant until Palmar came in and confirmed Matt was fakeclaiming. Before that, I was trying to focus the thread a little. This game is no where near as out of control as that situation was and also (IRL bullshit that no one cares about)
Since BH has claimed, I find debears to be incredibly scummy, and Marv made a point of articulating already. I felt he was scummy before from the way he attacked me for lecturing and it being anti-town. I also felt his meta/smurf's are unreadable comments were contradictory and he was twisting words to make a case on me based on very little information. However, I was explicitly told to drop my suspicions because they were a) poorly thought out and b) distracting debears from helping town.
He hasn't helped town. Hapa's case on debears is spot on (in my heavily biased opinion) and I don't want to lynch anyone else right now.
His only reason for voting debears is that debears made a read on him and voted him.
On November 15 2012 09:21 Hopeless1der wrote: @Marv's case on Z-Boson - Quite frankly, if it saves me, I'll vote Z-boson, otherwise my vote stays parked on debears. I still think Z-Bo is town though, I just happen to know I'm town.
I don't like this at all. Hopeless clearly states that he views ZB is town, earlier in the game ZB makes a small meta case and hopeless doesn't vote him (rightfully so) - but now he will throw his vote on ZB??? You don't scum hunt at all, say you view ZB as town but are willing to vote for him, and keep your vote parked on debears all game solely because debears made a read on you and threw his vote your way. This is not town oriented play in my opinion.
Then there is the day 1 voting. ZB was one of the potential lynch candidates and at a point it seemed he was goign to be the lynch (with 8 votes on his head no less!): Note that this is right before the wild swing of votes to Hapa, so had that note happened it was ZB getting lynched.
On November 15 2012 10:55 Z-BosoN wrote: LYNCH HAPAHAULI.
LYNCH BLAZINGHAND. when he is alive day 3.
marv, hope you learn you are not the fucking god of mafia, and see that meta reads are only worth it if it isn't fucking obvious stylistic proven logical and pre-claimed reasons.
Turns out he was right (halfway at least but I suspect 100% right ^^). So in summation I've always felt pretty good about ZB and then the D1 lynch just solidified it.
Regarding DarthPunk Basically I agree with and echo the idea that when DP was set to be lynched, he did an extremely good job of showing that he was town. And an interesting note is that like ZB, when DP thought he was the lynch, he names Hapa and BH aswell :
On November 15 2012 10:34 iamperfection wrote: DP DO NOT RUN AWAY IF YOUR TOWN. Give reads on the people voting on you.
I just did.
more
How about this. I was probably not going to be lynched until two of the best town players I know who are very rarely wrong about scum reads lead the most retarded wagon in the world on me which is wrong.
So either they are worse than I thought. Can't read me at all or are scum.
Hapa is not playing the same as GSL he is playing worse. Hi scum game is townie though so be wary of that. But he is not giving the confident and often correct reads taht he usually gives as town.
He is starting up a stupid fucking wagon that he is usually wary of as town. Hapa is like the fucking divine presence of level headedness usually but this band wagon is not it.
BH I have never played with before. But he is reading scum into things that should not be read as scummy. SO he might just be worse than I thought.
Marv is actually fucking right although rightly confused but seems townie from genuinely wanting to figure shit out rather than leap onto a retarded wagon.
Also.
How much fucking conviction does BH have in his reads when I am so scummy but then he insta votes for a fucking Coin toss.
BH is scum. Because he doesn't give a fuck about the lynch as long as he lynches a townie.
So those are my two strong town reads out of the lynch. Again the others I showed as green or did not is only an indication of how I viewed the lynch (some of the people I left unmarked I feel are very likely town for example).
As for the people I had marked as SCUM: Well, Hapa doesn't need much explaining :D (GJ town!).
Regarding Hopeless1der Before the lynch I posted my read of him, and so far it all remains relevant:
On November 15 2012 09:57 Kickstart wrote: Regarding Z-Boson I am not comfortable with a lynch on ZB. So he is playing differently and posting less, but when I take a look at his filter I see some very lengthy and thought out posts that offer good analysis. I don't think that lynching him due to him posting differently this game is fair, especially when his posts are pretty significant (I said earlier that even though his filter wasn't large, every post contributed something). I take Hapas word that before this game even started he talked with ZB and ZB discussed wanting to change his posting style a bit (though a skype log would be nice!). Why lynch someone who has changed their posting style when you could be lynching someone who isn't being pro-town at all:
Regarding Hopeless1der Look at his filter, there is NO attempt to find scum, the only person he gos after is debears, but only after debears went after him. The first half of his filter is talk about people being afk and/or smurfs - this really doesn't help at all. And his post where he reads debears: + Show Spoiler +
On November 14 2012 14:54 debears wrote: For all you who think me being afk is a scumtell, which you guys are retarded if you do
Let me just say this once. Fuck off debears. Nothing personal, but in all seriousness OMGUS. I'm still your scum read because I've done nothing since you laid into me for 'lecturing town'. If you still want to harp on that chord, you're not being a good little townie. I was afk for longer than you were, and you have nothing new to post in the thread.
I'll lay this out for you. This is the post I was "lecturing" about:
On November 13 2012 10:44 marvellosity wrote: you can't active lurk in a game that's less than 2 hours old, numbnuts.
If anyone's 'active lurking' it's me. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Don't shut people down who are obviously trying their best to scum hunt and contribute. You are only going to discourage those things. Or is that what you want?
I was not lecturing everyone, I was responding to a single post and listing multiple examples of less than stellar reasons to vote for someone.
I was told to drop it with you so you could focus on the rest of the game instead, because I was distracting you from being useful.
On November 14 2012 00:17 marvellosity wrote: Hopeless, I think you're making too much of that. The bit you bold says "was" - past tense, that was his stance previously (when he'd missed my Crossfire post).
Like debears said just now there's not a lot to say about Crossfire otherwise, you can't really have a stance on someone who hasn't posted yet.
The whole issue is overblown and should be dropped. If only because it's a big distraction to debears, who has to keep talking about it, and it's not helping anyone
And yet I'm still your top scum read and iamperfection is still the only other player you'll really talk about. You haven't commented on anything significant (neither have I yet, but fuck it, you're already voting me)
I dont give a shit what your IRL issues are, same as you probably dont care why I was gone. I care that you claim that there are no better cases than the one on me when you have no new information and are just stuck on the fact that I'm afk and therefore avoiding you. What's more, you aren't even pushing me as your scum read. Yes this is an OMGUS vote. ##Vote: debears
Am I going to need to pull a BH and shoot my load earl--I mean sift through my own meta to find examples of me being a jackass? Btw debears, why in the hell were you unable/unwilling to comment on BH's claim?
On November 15 2012 06:27 Hopeless1der wrote: In response to Z-Bo's case on me:
- No comment on BH should still hold merit as an attack against debears, especially if used as a contributing factor to my own scumminess.
Meta read - Earlier you said my meta this game was comparable to LVII. You've 180'd that read. I have no conclusion here, I'm just pointing it out.
Other points from meta: Me referring back to previous cases. I had an actual case to refer back to, and I was also much more convinced by that case. This game, we have me being inactive, Cross being modkillable the first 24 hours or so, thrawn afk, DP afk, BH trolling. Lots of things that just sucked bag. In LVII, we have Matt claim scum super early and the ensuing discussions were getting excessively redundant until Palmar came in and confirmed Matt was fakeclaiming. Before that, I was trying to focus the thread a little. This game is no where near as out of control as that situation was and also (IRL bullshit that no one cares about)
Since BH has claimed, I find debears to be incredibly scummy, and Marv made a point of articulating already. I felt he was scummy before from the way he attacked me for lecturing and it being anti-town. I also felt his meta/smurf's are unreadable comments were contradictory and he was twisting words to make a case on me based on very little information. However, I was explicitly told to drop my suspicions because they were a) poorly thought out and b) distracting debears from helping town.
He hasn't helped town. Hapa's case on debears is spot on (in my heavily biased opinion) and I don't want to lynch anyone else right now.
His only reason for voting debears is that debears made a read on him and voted him.
On November 15 2012 09:21 Hopeless1der wrote: @Marv's case on Z-Boson - Quite frankly, if it saves me, I'll vote Z-boson, otherwise my vote stays parked on debears. I still think Z-Bo is town though, I just happen to know I'm town.
I don't like this at all. Hopeless clearly states that he views ZB is town, earlier in the game ZB makes a small meta case and hopeless doesn't vote him (rightfully so) - but now he will throw his vote on ZB??? You don't scum hunt at all, say you view ZB as town but are willing to vote for him, and keep your vote parked on debears all game solely because debears made a read on you and threw his vote your way. This is not town oriented play in my opinion.
I just feel that his anti-town tone has continued on through the lynch and after. As for the lynch itself hopeless NEVER stuck his neck out, he constantly stayed on debears the entire time (not that hapa temporarily switch over to debears apparantlytrying to start a wagon on him?):
On November 15 2012 10:46 debears wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote Hopeless
Plz for the love of god vote hopeless ppl
Can we please lynch this guy? Please?
##Vote Debears
The only thing that gives me a bit of reservation is that hopeless could have saved hapa had he switched his vote off of debears and put it on ZB at any time. But then I don't really think anyone was expecting hapa to get lynched.
Regarding strongandbig Just take a look at this guys filter and then couple that with his votes and tell me it isn't suspicious as hell. SnB, like hopeless, never sticks his neck out on any reads and just agrees or disagrees with other peoples points. Couple that with his votes (ignore the hapa vote, it was at the VERY start of the game and it was a complete joke vote; he only votes for debears, blazinghand, and ZB). He was also oddly quiet during the pile onto hapa - while being there to laugh the most and mkae jokes afterwards??
Some reservations I have about snb is that he has gone after both hapa and hopeless postings (hapa who we know is scum and hopeless who I have the strongest read on at the moment), but scum dissing on scum isn't unheard of. Another reservation is that he has gone after BH hardcore, who I would be just as willing to lunch at this point as snb (though I would still rather go after my top read atm - hopeless).
Anyways there you have it, hopefully night actions reveal some more stuffs.
On November 13 2012 16:52 Kickstart wrote: Here is why I have doubts about Hapa. Hapa starts off by being the first one to cast a "pointless vote" at the start of the day. + Show Spoiler +
On November 13 2012 09:15 Clarity_nl wrote: I don't think anyone will be against millers claiming and a lurker lynch policy. If they are they should speak up. Otherwise we really don't need to mention it again.
Oh hum I need something more controversial then.
Howabout the lynch DarthPunk policy? I have a hard time reading him and rolls scum 66% of the time when I'm in game with him. Sample size be damned!
##Vote DarthPunk
I see that several people did this and were joking but I don't like it much and Hapa is the first to do it, which is even more interesting because soon after he states that the random vote gambit is far overused ;/ : + Show Spoiler +
On November 13 2012 09:37 Hapahauli wrote: @iamp
The "random vote" gambit has been far overused. I'm not a fan.
I'd comment on your post, but I'm not even sure what you're talking about there.
On November 13 2012 10:50 debears wrote: Does S&B normally act like this?
Just curious :D
Feel free to answer that S&B
Well it's weird for sure. I'm used to seeing scum SnB be a lot more "wordy" when he posts. Atleast this was the case in Mafia LVII and Death Note Mini. Howwwwwweva, this post really sets off my scum alarms:
On November 13 2012 09:41 Z-BosoN wrote: Hello, sirs. First of all I´d like to claim miller. There are two very viable options now, regarding my alignment on this game.
I am fakeclaiming as mafia. I am in fact a miller.
My claim here would be fairly risky as scum, and as town it makes more sense to claim so as to not waste detective checks on me, but of course this is WIFOM. I hope to show my alignment in this game through brilliant, stellar townie play, and hope town uses this factor and this factor alone when scouting my alignment. The only thing I hope to achieve with this claim is to not be checked by an eventual cop, as that check will be guaranteed to turn red.
That being said, I look forward to playing this game. Lot's of familiar faces around, and I am curious to hear more from people I haven't played yet.
Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out
HI ZB <3.
Yeah ZB will figure me out If I am scum, and Vice Versa. Hapa will figure marv out and marv will figure everyone out.
GG scummers
But what if me, ZB, and marv are all scum o_O
Then Blazinghand, Debears and I will rip you all a new arsehole. <3
On November 13 2012 09:45 iamperfection wrote: i guess theirs no reason not to believe zbos right? has to be to risky to do if he was scum right.
Woah woah hold-up. I'm not liking how you're trusting this claim right away.
Claiming miller is a pretty much a riskless play here. We don't know how many millers are in the setup, and as far as I'm concerned, the claim is null until Z-Bo proves otherwise.
its what i think so whatever. Zbos scum is gone put himself out there like that i dont think so.
It's not "so whatever" - I'm pretty skeptical how you're so willing to think Z-Bo is town off what looks to me like a completely null action.
Hapa, last time you did that little spoiler trick (GsL III), you were the role that you put in the spoiler.
Here, you put bowser. Now why would you put bowser out of all the scum roles? It seems to me like you were actively thinking of bowser, which you shouldn't be if you are town. I would expect you to put a town role in that spoiler
this is stupid
He calls debears argument/suspicion on me stupid, when he himself has his vote on me. It's not consistent at all with his suspicions so far, and I can't wrap my head around a townie thought process here.
## Vote StrongandBig
At least he stays away from voting based on the VT claim post but he starts out by inferring that if SnB were scum he would be posting differently and then votes him anyways based on the "this is stupid" comment (which to be fair to SnB I agree with him, the whole point about putting your role in a spoiler is silly).
On November 14 2012 11:47 Kickstart wrote: Wowzers that was a lot to catch up on, I really tried to post before heading off to school but there was way too much to read and process. I was 100% down with lynching BH... and then he claims jk. I still don't like his posting before or after the claim and think that the claim did no one other than himself any good. I would love to flip him just to see, because the way I see it, at worst he is scum trying to save himself (but as stated before that would be REALLY reckless) and at best he is now deadweight.
For me the best thing I feel I have to go off of is looking at peoples votes and trying to pick out the scumvotes, and I still think the SnB bandwagon had some scum attached to it (who were basically forced to switch their votes after it being called out for what it was). Top scum read for me is still Hapa. I think he hopped on the SnB wagon, then tried to start an iamp one (with BH, so that is part of the reason I was 100% down for lynching BH and if he flipped red I would have insta voted Hapa - but then BH claimed so....), and now he is voting for debears with everyone else.
I suppose it is time to put my vote where my mouth is, but I would like to hear other peoples thoughts on Hapa. If most others are getting scum read on him (which some people have already posted that they are) I would like to hear why, likewise if someone thinks hes town I want to hear why.
##Vote: Hapahauli
and @Hapa No hard feelings, you have been very kind to me in your posts which I do appreciate but I can't let that influence my reads.
So were my points at the time valid? I'm not sure what to think of this because it seems that I had it right but at the time got no support. Did I not provide enough analysis/reasoning? Was it just unconvincing? ;/
where it looks like he wants to get town cred for having been suspicious of Hapa from the beginning. I really didn't like this post but I've made this king of mistake when I was Cop in my first game.
On November 18 2012 12:58 Kickstart wrote: Man shit I'm sorry I slept right through the lynch, but I wouldn't of changed my vote off of SnB anyways. I've stated all along that my strongest town read was on ZB so I was not going to vote for him this early on - seems I was right :S. Going forward I think the order of our lynches should be:
1st or 2nd: SNB and DJO (SnB first, still the person I find scummiest) 3rd: Clarity (though I don't have a strong scum read on him, I haven't read him as town all game and all the other players I feel are more town than him). 4th: BH (because if we get rid of those 3 and no new developments are made, it is time to get rid of BH finally for his shenanigans).
because it looks like he is setting-up the lynches for the next few days regardless of what is going to happen. I don't like this at all because I still do not understand why I'm on this list and he didn't comment yet S&B play during D2 which was quite different from D1.
The points against him are not strong and I hope that he can provide good explanations for them. I think that he got lazy during D2 and this is something I can understand given the flips so far.
My conclusion is that he is a first time player, which I'm leaning town on, and that it could be quite difficult for him to keep up with all what happens in this very active game but I hope than he can provide good play as he did during D1 and I would be satisfied with that.
Way to say something without saying anything at all.
Here is why I think he is town
Here is why he could be scum
All in all I think he is a new player.
Like wtf?!?!? Not contributing not scum hunting and a wishy-washy nothing of a first case 5 pages into his filter.
More setup speculation.
Useless shit like this comprises 99% of his activity.
On November 18 2012 17:59 Djodref wrote: @ debears
I disagree, it could be a good strategy for a possible SK to retain his night kills until we manage to find the last scum. What does make you think that a possible SK would kill tonight ?
1) Assuming that the SK isn't hopeless, he could put doubt on hopeless' claim. 2) it's what, 8/7 town to 1 scum/sk or 1 scum and sk 3) The longer the game goes on, the harder it is to conceal a guilty conscience/push your agenda as sk/mafia
@ debears
1)That's actually a good point. I don't think that hopeless could be SK even with another kill because he killed Crossfire and that would have been against a SK interest. But I've just realized that there was no way for a SK Hopeless to know for sure that Cross was scum when he decided to kill. By the way, would you yourself doubt Hopeless claim if we have 2 kills again tonight ? I remember that Hopeless was on your radar during D1. 2)That's also a good point. But it depends on the strategy you would choose as a SK. I don't know about it... 3)I disagree with this one because a possible SK would not know who the last scum is better than us. He would have no other thing to do than to scumhunt hard while not killing anyone and hope to survive until lylo. You don't have any guilty conscience if you didn't kill anyone, right ?
Talks about set-up and breadcrumbs..
ZZZZ
On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote: Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts.
I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have. MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play. Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you. ##Vote S&B
Look at his vote on S&B no real reason. Only that he is voting BH someone who he had just tunnelled like forever. NO case. No scum hunting and a vote on the popular candidate.
ZZZ more setup speculation. there is literally ZERO scumhunting in his filter.
On November 20 2012 03:25 Djodref wrote: On a personal note, I've like S&B defense during D2, maybe because I'm more emotional than rational, so I'm not totally sure of S&B being the last scum yet even if he is the right person to lynch at the moment. I'm very curious to see what are going to be his next contributions. I'll accept people getting lazy if they can provide me with a case that totally proves that S&B is the last scum.
What the is he saying here? That's right. Nothing at all apart from distancing himself from a mislynch.
On November 20 2012 03:22 Clarity_nl wrote: I don't have anything against you. That's not how this game works.
I'm trying to ignore thrawn's stuff altogether but it's obviously in the back of my head. Although the setup speculation helped it really got on my nerves and it seemed to be all you were willing to talk about. I haven't made a case on you because I haven't been focusing on you much, and there's nothing that stands out as inherently scummy. But look at the players we'll have left after snb gets lynched (assuming he flips town). To me everyone on that list is rather townie, and you are probably the least towny out of them atm.
Your argument that darth hasn't taken advantage of his position can be said about hopeless and kickstart as well.
@ Clarity
The setup speculation allows us to have 100% confirmed blues right now. And the last scum is not able to fakeclaim if get close to his sorry ass... Honestly, if Hopeless was not a confirmed Vig, I would be all over him right now. Regarding Kickstart, we need to give him more room so he can post more. Also I think we should listen to what he is saying. First games are always depressing when every other player is coming at you for the scummy things that you inevitably post and never acknowledge what you are saying. I understand that he could get bored in his position. But Darthpunk is not in the same position as Hopeless and Kickstart. He has won his Acme game so he should have more time to spare with us.
More of this shit. This is like his whole filter. talk about set-up call out some lynch bait. Rinse and repeat.
NO scumhunting. NO real contributions. NO reason for Voting. NO Impetus to find out who the scum are.
Acting as if he is contributing when in fact his filter contains nothing.
On November 20 2012 21:30 Djodref wrote: My vote is on S&B because he was we have both been speculating the setup and I went after BH when he should have realized that he was confirmed town around the beginning of D3.
You were doing this for days after you should have realised he was town. You can't both be scum for it right. And it seems particularly hypocritical.
this is BTW the only reason you ever mention before now for your vote on S&B
On November 20 2012 21:30 Djodref wrote: He doesn't seem to really care about this game. He is not present enough in the thread, especially at a crucial moments like the time he got almost lynched.
So you are lynching a lurker? If you are lynching a lurker why not call it that. You have not mentioned this once before now in regards to S&B
On November 20 2012 21:30 Djodref wrote: His latest contribution is the result of of the search of every scummy thing in Clarity's filter in my eyes, not a real assessment of Clarity's alignment.
That is not a fair assessment and even if it was it is not necessarily alignment indicative .
On November 20 2012 21:30 Djodref wrote: I know I shouldn't say that, but he is a liability given his trolly play during D1, and we would have to lynch if he was among us in MYLO or LYLO, so better sooner than later.
That is not a reason to lynch someone. Furthermore, it is patently untrue as he is not trolling, and has far more valuable contributions than yourself.
On November 20 2012 02:34 Hopeless1der wrote: Known/Assumed Flips
debears - Mario
Hopeless1der - Luigi
Blazinghand - Yoshi
Marvellosity - Mushroom Citizen
Z-Boson - Bob-omb
Hapahauli - Bowser
Crossfire99 - Koopa Troopa
Remaining Players are assumed to be Mushroom Citizens or the final scum, Kamek the Mafia Roleblocker
Kickstart
Strongandbig
Clarity_nl
DarthPunk
iamperfection
Djodref
Strongandbig, if you can't tell us who the scum of that list is, can you provide town reads instead on as many players as you can? Actually, everyone should be doing that, with the understanding that reads change. BH and I are next in line, probably in that order due to being confirmed town and BH being a known strong town player.
In the event that SnB is not scum, we have one mislynch Day 4 until a MYLO Day 5 (3v1). Which players do we want alive if it gets to that point?
<snip>
@ Hopeless
At the moment, my strongest town reads are Iamp and Kickstart. Iamp looks the most concerned about this game with Clarity. He has presented good contributions and promotes a good town atmosphere for the discussion. He has shown interest and provided his insights on almost everything what was going on in the thread. Moreover, I don't feel that his posts are forced. He just looks genuinely town. He is the guy I would never want to lynch. Kickstart, even he doesn't participate enough at my taste, really gives me a first time town player feeling. I'm just coming out of my newbie games and they are full of games like him. If he was scum, I think he would have produced some Crossfire-like looking posts on day1 and that he would have already broke into pieces at this point. He needs to get free of the "I'm going to get suspicious if I post burden". I think that he could show clearly that he is town if he could post more freely. I'll give him "carte blanche" for his postings until we get at MYLO, if we have to come to this, which I doubt. I might be stupid to insist on this point, but I'm going to eat my hat if Kickstart has sniped debears. The last scum has to be an experienced player in my opinion.
Not really hard evidence. Just based on some 'feelings' hey. Why have you given so many town reads yet have not given any scum reads all game and have not actively scum hunted?
On November 20 2012 20:58 Blazinghand wrote: djodref you think anyone wants to actually look at those posts full of letters and algebra and stuff? especially a busy guy like DP? Really what it comes down to is given the flips and claims, there are 2 blues left alive, and they are me and hopeless1.
lol, okay, I'm going to sum up everything for him.
First things first, you have to check this internet page about C9++, it is a very interesting read, believe.
Second, given the claims and the flips and the lack of night actions at the exception of the mafia kills and BH being RBed, our setup is defined by the following set of letters, MVCCDTT, which gives us a 100% certainty of Hopeless being Luigi and BH being Yoshi.
I'm done with talking now, I'll check Clarity's filter.
LOL you think I haven't read that page? The thing is I don't care about set up speculation. I would not want to lynch BH with no counter claim regardless.
It's great you are done with talking. But you are not BH and if you think you can get away without telling me exactly why S&B is scum you are going to be sorely disappointed.
You may think I am a bad player. and that is fine. I am comparatively to others. But I am not someone who you can roll over very easily. I have only lost one game of mafia in my 8 games. This will NOT be my second.
@ DarthPunk
Maybe you should take care of setup speculation. You would have understood that lynching the uncontested miller was as bad as lynching the uncontested jailkeeper. Here, I'm saying that we were both bad
All you do is talk about set-up.
I would appreciate that you would do the effort to understand my point. You cannot reproach me to have tunneled BH during D2 when you have only pursued Z-Boson the same day. I already told you that you were having double standards regarding this and I don't know if you don't understand or don't want to understand.
There is a HUGE difference between a miller claim and a JK claim. Furthermore I have actually scumhunted in this game and built a good case on ZB.
You did not do so with BH and have not scumhunted at all this game period.
On November 20 2012 21:53 Clarity_nl wrote: I was the one who asked him what he thought of kickstart, and now you're saying it's bad he made a post on kickstart?
You say he's wishy washy, but there is a fucking conclusion at the end of that post. He points out all his observations and makes a conclusion.
It was wishy washy. But I don't really care what you think.
The conclusion was that he was a newbie. And that was not difficult to see for anyone. Some conclusion right there.
It is worse for him that you asked him to make that post because that was his only real analysis or contribution on anything even remotely consisting of scum hunting. Without that he has done none whatsoever.
On November 20 2012 21:49 Clarity_nl wrote: His setup speculation ended up contributing though, in a big way.
Your case is such cherry picking. You say he's not scum hunting but he was tunneling blazing. You say giving a scumread and townreads is bad when there is 1 scum left? If he is scum giving too many town reads would be bad for him since he'd have to flip flop eventually.
I'm really sad at the level of hypocrisy everyone has this game. Darth and hopeless are in such a brilliant position to just look for scum and contribute, but then they don't and eventually make cases about how others haven't contributed. But they have.
Tunnelling the JK with no analysis. Setup speculation is not scumhunting and is an easy crutch for scum to seem as if they are contributing.
His town reads are wishy washy and he has already started flip flopping.
STFU about hypocrisy. Djo has nothing resembling scumhunting at all in his filter. You are equating Posting to contribution which is Fallacious and false. I can and do post a shit ton as scum that doesn't mean I am contributing anything.
The trick is to find people who seem to be contributing but actually aren't. Like DJo.
On November 20 2012 21:53 Clarity_nl wrote: I was the one who asked him what he thought of kickstart, and now you're saying it's bad he made a post on kickstart?
You say he's wishy washy, but there is a fucking conclusion at the end of that post. He points out all his observations and makes a conclusion.
It was wishy washy. But I don't really care what you think.
The conclusion was that he was a newbie. And that was not difficult to see for anyone. Some conclusion right there.
It is worse for him that you asked him to make that post because that was his only real analysis or contribution on anything even remotely consisting of scum hunting. Without that he has done none whatsoever.
No, his conclusion was he was newbie town. And the fact that you don't "care what I think" says a lot about how you're playing this game. Badly.
And you are playing well? hmm. Better dive into that filter of yours and see.
On November 20 2012 21:18 DarthPunk wrote: Djo. Explain in your own words why clarity and Perfection are town reads.
Kickstart and iamperfection. Get off my back and start reading the thread more carefully. Remove you confirmation bias goggles by the way...
Kickstart and perfection then. Why are they town?
I've mentioned it here. I have never been wishy-washy on Kickstart. My conclusion was that he was town.
On November 20 2012 03:01 Djodref wrote:
On November 20 2012 02:34 Hopeless1der wrote: Known/Assumed Flips
debears - Mario
Hopeless1der - Luigi
Blazinghand - Yoshi
Marvellosity - Mushroom Citizen
Z-Boson - Bob-omb
Hapahauli - Bowser
Crossfire99 - Koopa Troopa
Remaining Players are assumed to be Mushroom Citizens or the final scum, Kamek the Mafia Roleblocker
Kickstart
Strongandbig
Clarity_nl
DarthPunk
iamperfection
Djodref
Strongandbig, if you can't tell us who the scum of that list is, can you provide town reads instead on as many players as you can? Actually, everyone should be doing that, with the understanding that reads change. BH and I are next in line, probably in that order due to being confirmed town and BH being a known strong town player.
In the event that SnB is not scum, we have one mislynch Day 4 until a MYLO Day 5 (3v1). Which players do we want alive if it gets to that point?
<snip>
@ Hopeless
At the moment, my strongest town reads are Iamp and Kickstart. Iamp looks the most concerned about this game with Clarity. He has presented good contributions and promotes a good town atmosphere for the discussion. He has shown interest and provided his insights on almost everything what was going on in the thread. Moreover, I don't feel that his posts are forced. He just looks genuinely town. He is the guy I would never want to lynch. Kickstart, even he doesn't participate enough at my taste, really gives me a first time town player feeling. I'm just coming out of my newbie games and they are full of games like him. If he was scum, I think he would have produced some Crossfire-like looking posts on day1 and that he would have already broke into pieces at this point. He needs to get free of the "I'm going to get suspicious if I post burden". I think that he could show clearly that he is town if he could post more freely. I'll give him "carte blanche" for his postings until we get at MYLO, if we have to come to this, which I doubt. I might be stupid to insist on this point, but I'm going to eat my hat if Kickstart has sniped debears. The last scum has to be an experienced player in my opinion.
Not really hard evidence. Just based on some 'feelings' hey. Why have you given so many town reads yet have not given any scum reads all game and have not actively scum hunted?
@ DarthPunk
Because I honestly thought we didn't need to. The mass claim plan was going to solve us the game with the help of logic only. And we have one and only one last scum to find. I don't see what is wrong about tunneling your top scumread only for D2 is this situation then giving top town reads before looking at the players who are left.
Is a 3/5 chance 'solving' the game now? I don't like those odds.
On November 20 2012 20:58 Blazinghand wrote: djodref you think anyone wants to actually look at those posts full of letters and algebra and stuff? especially a busy guy like DP? Really what it comes down to is given the flips and claims, there are 2 blues left alive, and they are me and hopeless1.
lol, okay, I'm going to sum up everything for him.
First things first, you have to check this internet page about C9++, it is a very interesting read, believe.
Second, given the claims and the flips and the lack of night actions at the exception of the mafia kills and BH being RBed, our setup is defined by the following set of letters, MVCCDTT, which gives us a 100% certainty of Hopeless being Luigi and BH being Yoshi.
I'm done with talking now, I'll check Clarity's filter.
LOL you think I haven't read that page? The thing is I don't care about set up speculation. I would not want to lynch BH with no counter claim regardless.
It's great you are done with talking. But you are not BH and if you think you can get away without telling me exactly why S&B is scum you are going to be sorely disappointed.
You may think I am a bad player. and that is fine. I am comparatively to others. But I am not someone who you can roll over very easily. I have only lost one game of mafia in my 8 games. This will NOT be my second.
@ DarthPunk
Maybe you should take care of setup speculation. You would have understood that lynching the uncontested miller was as bad as lynching the uncontested jailkeeper. Here, I'm saying that we were both bad
All you do is talk about set-up.
I would appreciate that you would do the effort to understand my point. You cannot reproach me to have tunneled BH during D2 when you have only pursued Z-Boson the same day. I already told you that you were having double standards regarding this and I don't know if you don't understand or don't want to understand.
There is a HUGE difference between a miller claim and a JK claim. Furthermore I have actually scumhunted in this game and built a good case on ZB.
You did not do so with BH and have not scumhunted at all this game period.
What was exactly the HUGE difference in our situation ? I need you to explain this in our particular case for real. I must admit that I didn't provide a good case on BH.
No and then you tunnelled him for two days after it was pointed out to you repeatedly he was town.
On November 20 2012 21:53 Clarity_nl wrote: I was the one who asked him what he thought of kickstart, and now you're saying it's bad he made a post on kickstart?
You say he's wishy washy, but there is a fucking conclusion at the end of that post. He points out all his observations and makes a conclusion.
It was wishy washy. But I don't really care what you think.
The conclusion was that he was a newbie. And that was not difficult to see for anyone. Some conclusion right there.
It is worse for him that you asked him to make that post because that was his only real analysis or contribution on anything even remotely consisting of scum hunting. Without that he has done none whatsoever.
That's a lie. I have clearly stated what was my read on him after my analysis. Newbie town it is.
Ok I must have misread. regardless, the way in which you constructed that post was wishy-washy. here is why he might be town
Here is why he could be scum
I think he is newbie town.
Which for all intents and purposes leaves a caveat, as newbie town is a lot closer to scummy than a 'Strong' town read.
On November 20 2012 21:18 DarthPunk wrote: Djo. Explain in your own words why clarity and Perfection are town reads.
Kickstart and iamperfection. Get off my back and start reading the thread more carefully. Remove you confirmation bias goggles by the way...
Kickstart and perfection then. Why are they town?
I've mentioned it here. I have never been wishy-washy on Kickstart. My conclusion was that he was town.
On November 20 2012 03:01 Djodref wrote:
On November 20 2012 02:34 Hopeless1der wrote: Known/Assumed Flips
debears - Mario
Hopeless1der - Luigi
Blazinghand - Yoshi
Marvellosity - Mushroom Citizen
Z-Boson - Bob-omb
Hapahauli - Bowser
Crossfire99 - Koopa Troopa
Remaining Players are assumed to be Mushroom Citizens or the final scum, Kamek the Mafia Roleblocker
Kickstart
Strongandbig
Clarity_nl
DarthPunk
iamperfection
Djodref
Strongandbig, if you can't tell us who the scum of that list is, can you provide town reads instead on as many players as you can? Actually, everyone should be doing that, with the understanding that reads change. BH and I are next in line, probably in that order due to being confirmed town and BH being a known strong town player.
In the event that SnB is not scum, we have one mislynch Day 4 until a MYLO Day 5 (3v1). Which players do we want alive if it gets to that point?
<snip>
@ Hopeless
At the moment, my strongest town reads are Iamp and Kickstart. Iamp looks the most concerned about this game with Clarity. He has presented good contributions and promotes a good town atmosphere for the discussion. He has shown interest and provided his insights on almost everything what was going on in the thread. Moreover, I don't feel that his posts are forced. He just looks genuinely town. He is the guy I would never want to lynch. Kickstart, even he doesn't participate enough at my taste, really gives me a first time town player feeling. I'm just coming out of my newbie games and they are full of games like him. If he was scum, I think he would have produced some Crossfire-like looking posts on day1 and that he would have already broke into pieces at this point. He needs to get free of the "I'm going to get suspicious if I post burden". I think that he could show clearly that he is town if he could post more freely. I'll give him "carte blanche" for his postings until we get at MYLO, if we have to come to this, which I doubt. I might be stupid to insist on this point, but I'm going to eat my hat if Kickstart has sniped debears. The last scum has to be an experienced player in my opinion.
Not really hard evidence. Just based on some 'feelings' hey. Why have you given so many town reads yet have not given any scum reads all game and have not actively scum hunted?
@ DarthPunk
Because I honestly thought we didn't need to. The mass claim plan was going to solve us the game with the help of logic only. And we have one and only one last scum to find. I don't see what is wrong about tunneling your top scumread only for D2 is this situation then giving top town reads before looking at the players who are left.
Is a 3/5 chance 'solving' the game now? I don't like those odds.
Yeah, my plan was not perfect obviously. I was thinking at a Cop with one or two checks or masons. We would be in a good situation with just one more confirmed town, don't you think ?
I don;t care about your 'plan' stop swinging the conversation back to mass claiming/ set- up.
These kind of posts are your entire filter.
I don't want to hear anything from you but scumhunting for the first time.
I want solid fucking town and scum reads backed with evidence.
On November 20 2012 21:53 Clarity_nl wrote: I was the one who asked him what he thought of kickstart, and now you're saying it's bad he made a post on kickstart?
You say he's wishy washy, but there is a fucking conclusion at the end of that post. He points out all his observations and makes a conclusion.
It was wishy washy. But I don't really care what you think.
The conclusion was that he was a newbie. And that was not difficult to see for anyone. Some conclusion right there.
It is worse for him that you asked him to make that post because that was his only real analysis or contribution on anything even remotely consisting of scum hunting. Without that he has done none whatsoever.
No, his conclusion was he was newbie town. And the fact that you don't "care what I think" says a lot about how you're playing this game. Badly.
How about you contribute something other than calling people bad when they try to find scum? If you are town I fear you are under the illusion you are somehow playing well.
On November 20 2012 22:13 Clarity_nl wrote: Really now. I tell you that and you say you don't care, he tells you that and you must have misread?? How dare someone while giving a townread point out the things that could be considered scummy.
Clearly when we call someone town we should ignore the scummy things and when we call someone scum we should ignore the towny things!
DO you think Djo is town? If so tell me why. If not tell me why. Stop trashing the cases people have made. That is not scumhunting. You are not contributing anything useful to this conversation.
On November 20 2012 21:53 Clarity_nl wrote: I was the one who asked him what he thought of kickstart, and now you're saying it's bad he made a post on kickstart?
You say he's wishy washy, but there is a fucking conclusion at the end of that post. He points out all his observations and makes a conclusion.
It was wishy washy. But I don't really care what you think.
The conclusion was that he was a newbie. And that was not difficult to see for anyone. Some conclusion right there.
It is worse for him that you asked him to make that post because that was his only real analysis or contribution on anything even remotely consisting of scum hunting. Without that he has done none whatsoever.
That's a lie. I have clearly stated what was my read on him after my analysis. Newbie town it is.
Ok I must have misread. regardless, the way in which you constructed that post was wishy-washy. here is why he might be town
Here is why he could be scum
I think he is newbie town.
Which for all intents and purposes leaves a caveat, as newbie town is a lot closer to scummy than a 'Strong' town read.
I was not wishy-washy. And once again, Kickstart is not someone we should lynch. I've stated this clearly and I've analyzed his filter carefully. You are twisting what I'm saying once again...
Please explain me what was the HUGE difference between Z-Bo claim and BH claim.
One claims MILLER who checks red, serves no other purpose, is non verifiable through night actions and is probably the safest fake claim that can be possibly made by scum.
One claims Jailkeeper, Serves a real purpose, Is verifiable through night actions, And is one of the riskiest and unlikely fakeclaims to ever be made as scum.
How about you do some scumhunting that you have avoided all game?
On November 20 2012 22:16 Clarity_nl wrote: I love how you reply to that comment twice. First time you call me wrong, which you later say is right and you misread, second time is to reply the same way you already did before. You're nowhere to be found and keep saying "I'll make a case later", and suddenly you have a case on djo and are emotional as fuck.
You think I am scum? If so Make a case. If not Shut the hell up about how 'bad' I am.
Tell me why your vote is on S&B in your own words.
DJO has not scumhunted at all. There is nothing that is not set-up speculation, tunneling the JK with no case to back it up or a mass claim 'plan' in his filter.
On November 20 2012 22:21 Clarity_nl wrote: I MADE A FUCKING CASE ON HIM Then multiple times after that I pointed out how he goes from being a troll to suddenly contributing JUST LONG ENOUGH TO NOT GET LYNCHED and then immediately disappear again until he's at risk. Then he makes a case on me that contains half my filter and says I'm "trying to look town"
How have I NOT explained why my vote is on snb?
I didn't say you didn't I said I wanted to know why it is on him right now. You are far too upset at that question however.
Also S&B has not trolled this game. You don't know what trolling is.
His case on you was good.
So your case is that his contributions are inconsistent? Is that what you are saying? A calm summary would be nice. Nothing to cry about.
On November 20 2012 21:53 Clarity_nl wrote: I was the one who asked him what he thought of kickstart, and now you're saying it's bad he made a post on kickstart?
You say he's wishy washy, but there is a fucking conclusion at the end of that post. He points out all his observations and makes a conclusion.
It was wishy washy. But I don't really care what you think.
The conclusion was that he was a newbie. And that was not difficult to see for anyone. Some conclusion right there.
It is worse for him that you asked him to make that post because that was his only real analysis or contribution on anything even remotely consisting of scum hunting. Without that he has done none whatsoever.
That's a lie. I have clearly stated what was my read on him after my analysis. Newbie town it is.
Ok I must have misread. regardless, the way in which you constructed that post was wishy-washy. here is why he might be town
Here is why he could be scum
I think he is newbie town.
Which for all intents and purposes leaves a caveat, as newbie town is a lot closer to scummy than a 'Strong' town read.
I was not wishy-washy. And once again, Kickstart is not someone we should lynch. I've stated this clearly and I've analyzed his filter carefully. You are twisting what I'm saying once again...
Please explain me what was the HUGE difference between Z-Bo claim and BH claim.
One claims MILLER who checks red, serves no other purpose, is non verifiable through night actions and is probably the safest fake claim that can be possibly made by scum.
One claims Jailkeeper, Serves a real purpose, Is verifiable through night actions, And is one of the riskiest and unlikely fakeclaims to ever be made as scum.
How about you do some scumhunting that you have avoided all game?
How about you tell me how BH claim was verifiable through night actions in our case ? The both claims had same values when we were at D2. And you refuse to acknowledge it and I don't understand why. I have this question for you right now and I want you to answer it exactly because you are just talking about general stuff. I may resume my investigation on Clarity after that but I want you to understand my point first.
it is irrelevant to us catching scum now. We can discuss The differences in the likelihood of scum claiming JK over miller then.
I refuse to discuss set-up or mass claims with you further.
On November 20 2012 22:28 Clarity_nl wrote: I'm upset at it because it is a stupid question. I'm upset because you suddenly returned from narnia and started flailing your arms and if anyone disagrees at anything you say, you say "I don't care what you think" or "stop calling me bad, you're bad!" I want my snb lynch because he is scummy. No my case is not that his contributions are inconsistent, although they are and it's scummy because of the TIMING of his contributions. MY CASE ON HIM IS MY CASE ON HIM
His case on me is bad, if you think it's so good why are you going after Djo. You think we're both scum?
I think one of you is. Leaning DJO but that can change. Especially if you can't concisely summarise the reasons for your S&B vote. which you have not yet done adequately.
Why is he scummy? If you are that sure on him you will leap at the opportunity to convince me.
On November 20 2012 21:53 Clarity_nl wrote: I was the one who asked him what he thought of kickstart, and now you're saying it's bad he made a post on kickstart?
You say he's wishy washy, but there is a fucking conclusion at the end of that post. He points out all his observations and makes a conclusion.
It was wishy washy. But I don't really care what you think.
The conclusion was that he was a newbie. And that was not difficult to see for anyone. Some conclusion right there.
It is worse for him that you asked him to make that post because that was his only real analysis or contribution on anything even remotely consisting of scum hunting. Without that he has done none whatsoever.
That's a lie. I have clearly stated what was my read on him after my analysis. Newbie town it is.
Ok I must have misread. regardless, the way in which you constructed that post was wishy-washy. here is why he might be town
Here is why he could be scum
I think he is newbie town.
Which for all intents and purposes leaves a caveat, as newbie town is a lot closer to scummy than a 'Strong' town read.
I was not wishy-washy. And once again, Kickstart is not someone we should lynch. I've stated this clearly and I've analyzed his filter carefully. You are twisting what I'm saying once again...
Please explain me what was the HUGE difference between Z-Bo claim and BH claim.
One claims MILLER who checks red, serves no other purpose, is non verifiable through night actions and is probably the safest fake claim that can be possibly made by scum.
One claims Jailkeeper, Serves a real purpose, Is verifiable through night actions, And is one of the riskiest and unlikely fakeclaims to ever be made as scum.
How about you do some scumhunting that you have avoided all game?
How about you tell me how BH claim was verifiable through night actions in our case ? The both claims had same values when we were at D2. And you refuse to acknowledge it and I don't understand why. I have this question for you right now and I want you to answer it exactly because you are just talking about general stuff. I may resume my investigation on Clarity after that but I want you to understand my point first.
it is irrelevant to us catching scum now. We can discuss The differences in the likelihood of scum claiming JK over miller then.
I refuse to discuss set-up or mass claims with you further.
I will only discuss your scum hunting with you.
I'm sorry bu it's not irrelevant in the case you are the last scum. The timing and the claim of Z-Bo was making more sense from a real miller point of view than the JK claim halfway through D1 from BH from. I don't want to discuss generalities with you, I want to discuss what happened in our case. Both claims were uncontested but unverifiable at that time and they would have been as risky from a potential scum to make. I don't understand how you could be opposed to a BH lynch when you wanted to lynch Z-Bo.
If you think I am scum make a case. Stop talking about this. Miller is a much more likely fakeclaim then JK if you disagree fine. Save it for post game.
Do some scum hunting. You said you were making a case on clarity. I will wait.
On November 20 2012 22:38 Clarity_nl wrote: Fuck me dude, you want me to summarize my case?
His "accidental vt claim" doesn't make sense because he would have either posted "I wanted to fakeclaim miller!" or realized that sounded scummy and therefore changed it to "I wanted to fakeclaim miller as vt!". If that change is there that means he willingly put "as vt" there, yet later on he says he did it by accident. It doesn't make sense from a town perspective. Day 1 all his posts have no value. They either say "I (dis)agree with this" or "this is smart/stupid" Then there's his "I was playing dota during lynchtime", which, true or not, clearly shows a scum mentality. All townies who would be awake would be f5ing the shit out of the thread. D2 he posts "well, I guess it's time to try now!" Suddenly he is motivated. And the scum motivation is that marv said if cross flips red snb is most likely scum.
Then there's the whole reaction to my case. Suddenly he's contributing. But once the town stop focusing on him he disapears again, only to reappear the next daycycle but he might get lynched again.
On November 13 2012 10:02 strongandbig wrote: also fuck you zboson i wanted to fakeclaim miller as vt since then people couldn't say "oh he's fakeclaiming miller must mean he's scum" when i fakeclaim miller as scum
but now if i did that people would be like "two millers what are the odds" and then probably lynch you so no good on that one
People claim this post come across as natural, but going through the thinking process of it, I disagree. As town: Okay, so someone claimed miller when I wanted to, so I'll just make a little joke about it and move on. "Haha you guys, I was gonna totally fakeclaim miller that game!" Then you re-read your post.... wait a minute, don't I look scummy like this? I guess I better change that to "fakeclaim miller as vt"
Okay, so far it makes sense, but here's my problem. In this scenario he added the vt on purpose, but later on he claims it was an accident.
On November 13 2012 10:52 strongandbig wrote: okay so
that "lol" was when I was reading the thread and ppl were like "omg vote him he claimed vt"
and then I was like, wtf are they talking about when did I claim vt?
and then I was like, "oh."
yeah so, oops?
wat? so...you didn't claim VT?
well, I guess I did, but it wasn't on purpose
As scum: Scum love implying they are town, as mentioned, and that's exactly what this post does. I do not see a way for this action to be town motivated, so it is scum motivated. Or SK, I guess.
As for the rest of day one, just look at his filter. The first two pages are him trying to be funny, trying to be trolly and the closest he comes to playing mafia is calling things stupid/smart/wrong/right. No actual analysis, nothing that helps town.
On November 14 2012 02:31 Hapahauli wrote: Catching up on my lunch break.
Regarding SnB
##Unvote
After sleeping on it, I'm starting to agree that his play is too far of a deviation from his normal scum play to be scummy. I don't know what he's thinking, but it's much more reckless of a playstyle than I'd expect of scum SnB.
(FWIW, the fact that he's continuing this behavior into today makes me think he's an SK or something. It falls into that "townie but really off" type of play that's common with 3rd party roles.)
On November 13 2012 17:42 Clarity_nl wrote: Hapa, this still bothers me. I asked you what you thought about SnB's claim and if you thought it was bad for town, and you answered:
On November 13 2012 10:12 Hapahauli wrote: @ Clarity
Well in a theoretical sense yes, but you remember how well that worked with Cheesecake in Newbie XXX right? It's really not that significant IMO.
You compared this to Cheese's claim from NMM XXX even though the situations are completely different. The only reason Cheese claimed was because he thought only VT's knew the VT flavor. So he was trying to claim without alerting scum. SnB just outright claimed VT.
After I explain why it's different, you basically give me the same answer:
On November 13 2012 10:25 Hapahauli wrote:
On November 13 2012 10:14 Clarity_nl wrote: It's not like he flavor claimed, thinking others didn't know the flavor. How are those situations alike? You don't think it's a weird move for a VT to claim VT day 1?
No I don't find it weird. I think it's just a pointless comment that can be made by either alignment. Again, see Mr. Cheesecake's "odd" VT claim time in the Newbie game.
Him trusting Z-Bo's claim so up-front is a bit strange, but again, I don't know if it's just bad logic or scum knowing who's who.
I haven't seen anything alignment indicative from him yet.
The other thing I don't really like is the use of "theoretically yes" and "IMO" Whenever I've seen you post you tend to be direct and with conviction, but not this time.
I still believe both situations to be the same - they are both strangely timed VT claims. Cheese's intent to "signal" other townies isn't a significant difference, as both potentially fall into the category of "scum wanting to look less suspicious despite not being suspicious." The situations are not identical by any means, but they're more similar than not.
Regardless, I'm not suspicious of SnB anymore so I don't want to dwell on this.
Regarding the Z-Boson Case
I really disagree with it. The case is a giant anecdote for how Z-Boson's actions could be scummy rather than why they're scummy.
ZB is setting up to look good as a wagon starter (since scum don't like to stick their necks out) and appear to contribute to town, but if you read his astonishingly short filter, it's clear he's not actually helping. He's flinging shit at the wall and hoping it sticks.
All of this isn't valid at all hours into D1. All of the stuff described above is completely non-alignment indicative in the early game.
Z-Boson has been less active than I'm used to seeing him, but again early D1 caveats. No reason to vote him.
Regarding iamperfection
His sudden flip-flop on Z-Boson is really strange. He goes from strongly trusting Z-Bo's claim early in the game to a vote for really shitty reasons.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=22#434 In his vote post, he first picks a fight with BH - odd considering that he's ultimately going to agree with his read. He puts a lot of stock into one of Z-Bo's early D1 postings and early-game banter (meaningless). He then talks about the "iamperfection rule" and another early D1 wishy-washy post.
I wouldn't mind this if it weren't for his discussion about the miller claim:
I know i said early on that i thought the miller claim was more of a town tell but well i think zbos actions speak louder.
WHAT?!?!? Iamperfection had almost no doubt about Z-Bo's motives, and he's willing to do a complete 180 with the above reasoning. Just take a look at his previous stance, made right after Z-Bo's claim:
On November 13 2012 09:45 iamperfection wrote: i guess theirs no reason not to believe zbos right? has to be to risky to do if he was scum right.
He immediately trusted Z-Boson without question the second Z-Bo made that claim. Then all of a sudden now he turns around and can doubt the claim he so strongly believed in earlier. It makes no sense to me, and it looks like scum jumping on someone the second they have the reason to. This would be fine if he had a good case, but he just hinges on a couple of early D1 posts and the "iamperfection" rule as opposed to anything substantial.
It doesn't help that the rest of his filter reads really artificially confrontational to me. It feels like he's trying to overcompensate for being caught in GSL III for not showing his "bravado" throughout the game.
##Vote iamperfection
this is much more like what i expect out of hapahauli, i guess it just took a little while for him to get into character.
that said his case is pretty bad for reasons i explained above
Wait, what reasons? Seriously I looked real hard to find them and couldn't. At this point of the game Strongandbig has succeeded in making us zone him out. We read his posts, but we don't really take them in. We don't care, he's that guy that did that stupid thing but it's not really scummy, right?
On November 14 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote: It seems to me people are thinking too much of my posts, expecting some sort of brilliant day one cases. Disagreeing with my logic does not make me scum. That should pretty much handle the vast chunk of shit I got the last few pages.
There are, however, some things I'd like to point out during these last events, though:
First thing to note is how uncharacteristically bad BH's case is against me. He's basically saying I'm bullshitting with every post I make. While I agree my posts are not the bestest they can be, I'm not sure why that implies I'm scum.
He says this one thing in particular though:
ZB is setting up to look good as a wagon starter (since scum don't like to stick their necks out) and appear to contribute to town, but if you read his astonishingly short filter, it's clear he's not actually helping. He's flinging shit at the wall and hoping it sticks.
Note two things. 1) He's saying I'm setting up to look good as a wagon starter.
you're misinterpreting it, i think he's saying you're setting up to start a wagon without looking bad later because you started a wagon on a townie.
This is balls-to-the wall dumb. How am I a wagon starter just for having the first vote? Also, as he himself noted, I did not write a full essay regarding why I think SnB is scum. I voted for him for implying that he is town, and that's basically it. If I wanted to become a "wagon starter", that's obviously the exact opposite of what I should do, I would make a much more elaborate case. Ironically, I could say the same about BH and his case on me, and with much more validity, as he actually goes deep in his case on me, and seems somehow certain of my alignment, something which he leaves very clear later on:
...I actually want to lynch ZB, and ZB is actually scum....
Now, I'm not scum, so in my pov he is pretty much full of shit with this remark. There's a difference between bad logic, the thing he is calling me on bullshitting, and actual bullshitting, which is what this "wagon starting" remark actually is.
2) He's saying my filter is short, and it's clear I'm not helping. Again, completely ironic and hypocritical.
this is true. not sure being hypocritical is a scum tell coming from bh. probably is but only a small one?
He has only three completely useless posts up until this one:
On November 13 2012 15:38 Blazinghand wrote:
On November 13 2012 11:52 DarthPunk wrote:
On November 13 2012 11:47 Kickstart wrote:
On November 13 2012 11:44 DarthPunk wrote:
On November 13 2012 11:42 marvellosity wrote:
On November 13 2012 11:40 DarthPunk wrote:
On November 13 2012 11:37 iamperfection wrote: Whats everybody think of bh he is like a very good player when he is town from what i saw and here he really hasent done anything despite being here tell me what you guys think.
Give him a chance. He is one of those guys I would 100% never lynch day one because the benefits of him being town vastly out weigh the risks of him being scum.
From what I have heard around the grapevine however he is fairly easy to read as scum so we should be fine to take a look at him later on in the game.
you kidding? I'd lynch him day 1 in a heartbeat if I thought he was scum.
Well. That is fine. But I am not going to lynch him day one when he is a very good town player and the only case against him so far is that he is lurking.
The night (or day in terms of our game i guess!) is young, I wouldn't call anyone a lurker just yet. But I agree with marv that people who give off scum vibes should get the vote and find it odd that you are basically stating that you wouldn't vote for him no matter what ;o.
Yep. I would not. I would not vote day one for Hapa or marv either. Unless there was something super obvious I would not vote for them. But I do not think that would happen because they are all good players and that is why I respect them I suppose.
Honestly I think it's bad to tie yourself down with ideas like that. If someone's playing scummy, they're playing scummy. My scum play isn't amazing, but due to my extreme sex appeal and enormous intelligence and penis, I can assure you that it's improved a great deal. Mostly it's due to my large penis-- it is quite a monstrosity. It works as a pad, even.
Back on topic, don't feel like you can't vote or push people because of possible contributions. This kind of play is lazy and puts preconceived notions of what certain players are worth ahead of behavioral analysis. Someone voting for me because they legitimately think I'm scum and they have the cojones to do it is infinitely more helpful to town than someone not voting me because I'm a sexy baller.
That being said, iamperfection's vote is pretty typical iamperfection throwing his vote around trying to pressure people but not doing it effectively. He needs to realize that you should vote people when you want to lynch them, or else you won't be taken seriously.
The second paragraph is completely fluffy, he's not actually saying anything.
agree
That being said, I would like everyone to pay attention to the bolded on the third paragraph. He heavily, heavily thrashes me for being weak on my vote on SnB. Let's ignore all the others, especially DP (who voted TWICE on SnB, without saying anything). Let's focus on what he says here on iamp - and this is important. He says that iamp is throwing his vote around to pressure people, and that's all A-ok.
so this is true but you and iamp have a very different character as players
Now pause and think here. I'll quote what he said about that on me for clarity:
....S&B's "accidental" "vt claim" (both of those are in question) could be suspicious. But Z-B doesn't explain why. He doesn't set up a scum motive. He just slaps down a vote and bails. This is a chance to look like a townie wagon-started without doing analysis or writing the kind of long posts that could reveal his own scum motives. When Hapa rightly calls him on it .....
and
....A town player would lay out his own thought process right away so that others understand what he's thinking. He'd respond to s&B and push the wagon, not just slap down a vote and a bad explanation.....
Now contrast that to what he said about iamp's voting. On iamp, he is completely casual regarding his voting. On his case on me, however, he's aggressive and incisive , as you can clearly tell from the quotes I posted above.
Why does this make him scummy? Because it shows clear signs of fabrication, as one can easily infer from the quotes above. His views on "casual voting" are in complete contrast. One more thing, that I ignored earlier. If he feels so strongly about me voting SnB without giving any reasoning or thoughts, why isn't he going after DP, who's actually done that not once, but TWICE?? Townie Motivation: none. Scum motivation: he feels threatened that I have claimed miller and people are not showing signs of doubt on my claim. tl;dr 1) Blazinghand's case on me is uncharacteristically bad.
i haven't decided whether I agree with this or not.
It's also not consistent with his townie play on Liquid City. Look at his progression on Shiaopi, who was incidentally also making uncharacteristically bad cases as well. 2) Blazinghand is being supremely inconsistent, contradictory and hypocritical of what he defines as scum-motivated and what not, showing signs of someone who is merely fabricating cases, as detailed above.
I tried to be as clear as possible here, because I don't want people to feel like this is just OMGUS.
My votes on SnB and debears were more pressure votes, as if that wasn't pretty much clear. This one on blazinghand, is not. I think he's the best lynch so far, as everything I've stated seem to point on him being scum.
##Unvote ##Vote Blazinghand
idk overall i feel kind of suspicious of bh right now, but it isn't because he's being 'hypocritical', it's just because his play this game has a different feel to it than last time - like, last time he was making a bajillion cases and yelling at everyone and it was pretty obvy he was town. that said, i was scum last time and knew he was town, so maybe it felt different to me.
More noise. This is true, this is true, this might be true, I disagree with this. Overall null tell. This is posting for the sake of posting if I've ever seen it. Who posts for the sake of posting? Scum, because they know everyone is town so it's hard to make cases, so anything they can get away with that won't be noticed is great for them.
On November 14 2012 11:21 thrawn2112 wrote: I wanna lynch darthpunk. I remember his town play as somewhat aggressive and stubborn, and what I'm seeing from him in this game is completely different from that impression. I still think the whole snb 4 votes early on thing was a little silly and probably had scum behind it.
I can get behind this part (bolding by me)
On November 13 2012 15:56 DarthPunk wrote: I am just throwing my vote around trying to see what's up. I think I explained both my votes on him adequately maybe you disagree with the reasons and that is fine.
The reason I unvoted S&B the first time was that I voted for Clarity for what I perceived to be an easy jump onto an easy wagon. He gave his explanation, I unvoted and then I re-voted S&B.
You unvoted snb, who you originally voted for because of a dumb reason, in order to vote for clarity who had voted for snb because of a dumb reason?
man though when will people start to realize - "you were inconsistent" is not sufficient to establish that someone is scum. You either have to show that their inconsistency has a scum motivation or you have to show that from a particular player, being inconsistent is a scum tell based on their meta. Townies change their mind too! Just saying "scum like to be inconsistent" is not sufficient!
Scum motivations for being inconsistent are things like (-) going along with whatever the thread sentiment is at the time (-) buddying whoever has thread control (-) appearing to contribute without having to take strong positions (-) switching off of scum buddies or onto strong townies when a bandwagon goes further than they expected
You can't just say "lol an inconsistency! Scum!" You have to do quite a bit more work than that.
On November 13 2012 15:56 DarthPunk wrote:I cannot find the townie reasoning behind several things S&B has posted thus far. I cannot reconcile using WIFOM about his scum game as townie behaviour and I do not buy the too scummy to be scum shit.
I am far from certain about him. But if he is town I want him to shape up. I don;t like using FoS's anymore so a vote it is.
Specifically, this is what i'm talking about with dp's tone. This...
On November 13 2012 15:56 DarthPunk wrote:@blazinghand. Guess I am bad.
...is not what I expect from dp. I expect him to be argumentative and to challenge anyone who accuses him of being wrong.
I don't like his votes/unvotes for snb or the explanations for the votes.
His last voting action was an unvote, and the next 8 posts contain mainly fluff and jokes, not much information that's pertinent to the thread.
this is better - at least it's actually a real argument for him being scum. It's fundamentally a meta case, and therefore it would be better with quotes from other games by darthpunk or at least a guide for what other people should look for in his filter in specific games of his, but darthpunk is usually kind of a character so the case is easier to make here.
Summary: He took the easy vote on snb and was wishy washy about it (voting then unvoting then voting then unvoting) because he knows the vote looks bad. After voting the first time, he unvoted then challenged clarity for doing the exact same thing that dp himself did (hasty bandwagon voting for snb) and then he unvoted for a final time and his filter after that point contains no scumhunting or any of his reads/thoughts.
##Vote: Darthpunk
The other people that voted for snb during that time were hapa, clarity, and boson. With boson... the miller claim didn't seem to come at the right time to be a scum fakeclaim. I'd expect fake claims to come along much later after everyone has been given a chance to post/claim. Hapa, I'm wary of. BH made a comment along the lines of "whoever voted for snb is bad or scum," and hapa is definitely not bad. But he as well as clarity continued giving reads and interacting with the thread after the snb stuff, while dp has been wishywashy with his vote and not talked about much of anything else. The snb bandwagon grew so quickly that I think it's very likely that there were scum behind it, and dp looks scummiest out of all of them. There was his original voting/unvoting, not following through with any reads afterwards and having a fluffy filter, and being extremely peaceful and not willing to get in fights. That's the exact opposite of town dp.
Bolding by me - these are the central points of this case.
This is #1 out of the two posts he's made all game that actually contribute, and in this case it's calling someone's case bad. Not bad as in, you're scum, just bad. The other post where he contributes is calling out hopeless on his list post, pointing out inconsistencies. Hopeless right now is confirmed to not be scum, coincidence? Maybe.
Association with Cross
None, nada, zilch. Normally I'd call this a big tell but strongandbig hasn't had interactions with a lot of people this game. Nothing to be seen here I guess.
Assocation with Hapa
His posts pertaining hapa: nothing interesting, really. He calls Hapa off his game at one point, and he calls his case bad without explanation. + Show Spoiler +
On November 14 2012 02:31 Hapahauli wrote: Catching up on my lunch break.
Regarding SnB
##Unvote
After sleeping on it, I'm starting to agree that his play is too far of a deviation from his normal scum play to be scummy. I don't know what he's thinking, but it's much more reckless of a playstyle than I'd expect of scum SnB.
(FWIW, the fact that he's continuing this behavior into today makes me think he's an SK or something. It falls into that "townie but really off" type of play that's common with 3rd party roles.)
On November 13 2012 17:42 Clarity_nl wrote: Hapa, this still bothers me. I asked you what you thought about SnB's claim and if you thought it was bad for town, and you answered:
On November 13 2012 10:12 Hapahauli wrote: @ Clarity
Well in a theoretical sense yes, but you remember how well that worked with Cheesecake in Newbie XXX right? It's really not that significant IMO.
You compared this to Cheese's claim from NMM XXX even though the situations are completely different. The only reason Cheese claimed was because he thought only VT's knew the VT flavor. So he was trying to claim without alerting scum. SnB just outright claimed VT.
After I explain why it's different, you basically give me the same answer:
On November 13 2012 10:25 Hapahauli wrote:
On November 13 2012 10:14 Clarity_nl wrote: It's not like he flavor claimed, thinking others didn't know the flavor. How are those situations alike? You don't think it's a weird move for a VT to claim VT day 1?
No I don't find it weird. I think it's just a pointless comment that can be made by either alignment. Again, see Mr. Cheesecake's "odd" VT claim time in the Newbie game.
Him trusting Z-Bo's claim so up-front is a bit strange, but again, I don't know if it's just bad logic or scum knowing who's who.
I haven't seen anything alignment indicative from him yet.
The other thing I don't really like is the use of "theoretically yes" and "IMO" Whenever I've seen you post you tend to be direct and with conviction, but not this time.
I still believe both situations to be the same - they are both strangely timed VT claims. Cheese's intent to "signal" other townies isn't a significant difference, as both potentially fall into the category of "scum wanting to look less suspicious despite not being suspicious." The situations are not identical by any means, but they're more similar than not.
Regardless, I'm not suspicious of SnB anymore so I don't want to dwell on this.
Regarding the Z-Boson Case
I really disagree with it. The case is a giant anecdote for how Z-Boson's actions could be scummy rather than why they're scummy.
ZB is setting up to look good as a wagon starter (since scum don't like to stick their necks out) and appear to contribute to town, but if you read his astonishingly short filter, it's clear he's not actually helping. He's flinging shit at the wall and hoping it sticks.
All of this isn't valid at all hours into D1. All of the stuff described above is completely non-alignment indicative in the early game.
Z-Boson has been less active than I'm used to seeing him, but again early D1 caveats. No reason to vote him.
Regarding iamperfection
His sudden flip-flop on Z-Boson is really strange. He goes from strongly trusting Z-Bo's claim early in the game to a vote for really shitty reasons.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=22#434 In his vote post, he first picks a fight with BH - odd considering that he's ultimately going to agree with his read. He puts a lot of stock into one of Z-Bo's early D1 postings and early-game banter (meaningless). He then talks about the "iamperfection rule" and another early D1 wishy-washy post.
I wouldn't mind this if it weren't for his discussion about the miller claim:
I know i said early on that i thought the miller claim was more of a town tell but well i think zbos actions speak louder.
WHAT?!?!? Iamperfection had almost no doubt about Z-Bo's motives, and he's willing to do a complete 180 with the above reasoning. Just take a look at his previous stance, made right after Z-Bo's claim:
On November 13 2012 09:45 iamperfection wrote: i guess theirs no reason not to believe zbos right? has to be to risky to do if he was scum right.
He immediately trusted Z-Boson without question the second Z-Bo made that claim. Then all of a sudden now he turns around and can doubt the claim he so strongly believed in earlier. It makes no sense to me, and it looks like scum jumping on someone the second they have the reason to. This would be fine if he had a good case, but he just hinges on a couple of early D1 posts and the "iamperfection" rule as opposed to anything substantial.
It doesn't help that the rest of his filter reads really artificially confrontational to me. It feels like he's trying to overcompensate for being caught in GSL III for not showing his "bravado" throughout the game.
##Vote iamperfection
this is much more like what i expect out of hapahauli, i guess it just took a little while for him to get into character.
that said his case is pretty bad for reasons i explained above
On November 14 2012 11:21 Hapahauli wrote: Easy on the claim stuff guys - it's pointless to argue about something that already happened unless you actually think BH's claim is scummy - and it's too suicidal to be scummy IMO. He could be scum, but it's pretty unlikely.
BH - can I get your thoughts on Debears?
lol hapa this post almost persuaded me to vote for BH
On November 15 2012 08:18 marvellosity wrote: debears is right, by the way.
Some of Hapa's pushing on him is fucking nonsense.
this is true
like all that stuff about "not voting your top scumread"
that's only important when votes actually matter, i don't get this obsession people have with who voted who for what reason during the first six hours of the day
On November 15 2012 11:22 strongandbig wrote: man i wish i was here instead of playing dota
that last minute vote switch was one for the ages
Explaining where he was, and how awesome the voteswitch was. I would say this post is a null tell, if not for the fact that not once before has strongandbig explained where he was, but suddenly he needs an excuse? Why on earth is a townie playing dota at lynchtime, rather than f5ing the shit out of this thread like the rest of us? He wasn't "playing dota", he was here like the rest of us but didn't know what to say, his scumbuddy hapa was getting screwed over by impulse, best pretend to not be here!
Not only is this a weird thing to say, he says it a full 10 minutes after he gets back, as if he realized "oh shit I gotta explain where I was"
On November 15 2012 11:12 strongandbig wrote: lol lol
You were playing dota for 20-25 minutes? Possible, I guess. Unlikely. Even if you were it shows a lack of caring what's going to happen at lynchtime. At the time it was Zbo or Darth, and strongandbig knows they're both town and he's safe, so time to go do something else!
I don't know about you guys, but if I'm around as lynchtime and I'm town, I'm on the edge of my seat, spamming f5, waiting for the nightpost to go up.
My final point is his last post, at time of writing:
On November 16 2012 12:06 strongandbig wrote: Okay lol this is stupid
meh, marv is gone so I guess I'll actually have to try tomorrow ....
T_T
Oh well, see y'all then.
Oh and if anyone has a case other than "he's been trolling" pls post it so I can respond to it.
If you're gonna lynch me for docking around day 1 then fine do it, cause I dicked around day 1. It was fun.
Claiming he wasn't trying at all, but now he will!!! What made him so motivated to try, all of a sudden? The fact that marv died so town needs a leader? No. It's marv's post before getting nightkilled, where he says if cross flips red, strongandbig should be lynched next.
Inaction until the spotlight is on you, is scummy.
Strongandbigis scum. Lynch him today.
All of his posting has a clear scum motive, but not a clear town motive. He is scummy, he is scum.
OK. Now assume S&B flips green. Who is scum then and why?
On November 20 2012 22:46 Clarity_nl wrote: At one point I thought kickstart but I was wrong in that. Currently I do not know. I truly believe snb is scum. If I had to choose NOW, which I'm not informed enough to do, it would be you or Djo. I would have to look at who jumped on the snb wagon at a weird time or without explaining much.
Currently though I'm focused on getting snb lynched. I made this mistake last daycycle and zbo got lynched because I wasn't pushing the snb lynch hard enough, or I wasn't hard defending zbo well enough.
You think I could be scum?!?! You have had a town read on me ever since hapa's flip. You better have a bloody good reason for this flip-flop.
On November 20 2012 22:47 Clarity_nl wrote: So do you believe snb is town? If so please explain why. Because if Djo is most likely scum and I'm 2nd most likely that means snb is town, right?
Yes I think he is town. Reason 1 meta. This isn't the S&B I rolled scum with Previously. Reason 2. He has actually contributed reads and cases. Finally it is my gut instinct because I doubt scum S&B would play this way as scum even if he has shifted his meta.
On November 20 2012 22:52 Clarity_nl wrote: Yeah, your current behavior. I wrote this earlier already that I'm reconsidering you. Do you really not read this game?
Yes. But reconsidering is such a useless word. What is scummy about my current behaviour?
Oh and to be honest. You have spammed far too much useless shit this game for me to be able to take it all in. You have what a few halfway decent cases in 22 pages of filter day 3? People are going to miss things.
On November 20 2012 22:58 Clarity_nl wrote: Darth, this isn't snb's meta for town either. All his contributions are very timed with when he's in the spotlight. All that leaves is your gut.
Scummy about your current behavior is sudden emotional involvement in the game, where you showed none before, you have a scum read on me and djo. I'm town and I have a townread on djo. The fact that you think snb is town. This is all a smart way to go about things as scum. As snb will likely be lynched tomorrow if not today, so it behooves scum to keep him alive if possible.
Hopeless is confirmed, bh is confirmed, iamp is town, kickstart is town, djo is neutral, you are neutral You look scummier than djo, currently, because your reads have been the polar opposite of mine all game.
Like I said, I'm focusing on getting snb lynched today and I will do my research in the nightcycle. So that's all I got.
Contradict yourself much.
Since when have you had a town read on DJO? you just put him with me as scum after S&B. you have also mentioned him as possible scum several times previously.
And Sorry buddy but you are scum because you are playing the game now and have different reads to me is not a good enough reason for someone to be scum.
Also I am town. Which should be crystal clear to anyone with a brain.
On November 20 2012 23:01 Clarity_nl wrote: Just because you are too lazy to read does not make a lot of text spam. Without reading filters I can tell what people have been saying and where they stand on subjects, by reading the thread properly as it's evolving, why can't you?
Because I have been busy and I sleep during the peak game period. Trust me when you read 22 pages all at once you will see how useless and redundant much of your posting is.
Maybe it is just me.
Regardless all this you are bad, try reading the thread bullshit is useless. If you have a problem with it bring it up in post game.
Also. The case on me was terrible. Just pointing out bad play. I may have played poorly but there is nothing that shows a scum mindset or motive in that case.
Djo, on the other hand, has not scumhunted at all until I pointed it out and then crossvotes me.
Also. I would like to remind everyone that I was being pushed by scum, my mislynch was stopped by town, My not being lynched resulted in a bandwagon on hapa whom I called out in my death post which I then hammered and resulted in a scum lynch.
If you don't think I am town after that I am speechless.
On November 21 2012 08:31 DarthPunk wrote: Also. The case on me was terrible. Just pointing out bad play. I may have played poorly but there is nothing that shows a scum mindset or motive in that case.
Djo, on the other hand, has not scumhunted at all until I pointed it out and then crossvotes me.
Also. I would like to remind everyone that I was being pushed by scum, my mislynch was stopped by town,My not being lynched resulted in a bandwagon on hapa whom I called out in my death post which I then hammered and resulted in a scum lynch.
If you don't think I am town after that I am speechless.
There was a bandwagon on Z-Bo in between and you were a fervent support of it. The persons you really called in your death post were Z-Bo and Clarity.
Yeah. And I had a legitimate scum read on him. If you think being wrong and milynching makes someone scum you are sorely mistaken and that does not change the previous facts.
In fact, I am more likely to look badly after a mislynch as town than as scum because as scum I know how people are going to flip and I can make myself look good based on that foreknowledge.
On November 21 2012 08:26 DarthPunk wrote: K I'm back. I'd rather lynch clarity than S&B and djo isn't happening for some reason. So I am going to consolidate onto clarity.
##Unvote
##vote: Clarity
Well, maybe your case against me was not convincing enough... Can I have my own meta case if you get the time to spare ? I'm jealous of Z-Bo right now...
NO. It was tiresome enough reading your filter this game. I don't particularly want to read more of them.
On November 21 2012 08:31 DarthPunk wrote: Also. The case on me was terrible. Just pointing out bad play. I may have played poorly but there is nothing that shows a scum mindset or motive in that case.
Djo, on the other hand, has not scumhunted at all until I pointed it out and then crossvotes me.
Also. I would like to remind everyone that I was being pushed by scum, my mislynch was stopped by town,My not being lynched resulted in a bandwagon on hapa whom I called out in my death post which I then hammered and resulted in a scum lynch.
If you don't think I am town after that I am speechless.
There was a bandwagon on Z-Bo in between and you were a fervent support of it. The persons you really called in your death post were Z-Bo and Clarity.
This is bullshit BTW. I had several pre death posts. My reads changed in between which is a TOWN trait.
On November 15 2012 10:34 iamperfection wrote: DP DO NOT RUN AWAY IF YOUR TOWN. Give reads on the people voting on you.
I just did.
more
How about this. I was probably not going to be lynched until two of the best town players I know who are very rarely wrong about scum reads lead the most retarded wagon in the world on me which is wrong.
So either they are worse than I thought. Can't read me at all or are scum.
Hapa is not playing the same as GSL he is playing worse. Hi scum game is townie though so be wary of that. But he is not giving the confident and often correct reads taht he usually gives as town.
He is starting up a stupid fucking wagon that he is usually wary of as town. Hapa is like the fucking divine presence of level headedness usually but this band wagon is not it.
BH I have never played with before. But he is reading scum into things that should not be read as scummy. SO he might just be worse than I thought.
Marv is actually fucking right although rightly confused but seems townie from genuinely wanting to figure shit out rather than leap onto a retarded wagon.
Also.
How much fucking conviction does BH have in his reads when I am so scummy but then he insta votes for a fucking Coin toss.
BH is scum. Because he doesn't give a fuck about the lynch as long as he lynches a townie.
Here I call out HAPA and BH as my top scumreads. AFTER the previous post that you are misrepresenting as my only death post.
This was BEFORE I switched off ZB onto HAPA whom due to additional information became my number one scum read which is reflected in the alterations between my death posts.
On November 21 2012 08:42 Clarity_nl wrote: I agree blazing, and like I said it should be djo at this point. But can this please wait until the lynch happens?
On November 21 2012 08:44 Clarity_nl wrote: Saying you did something and then saying it's a town thing to do is pointless. Especially when it's something vague like changing your mind
Changing my mind and lynching scum because of it. Both town tells. Scum don't fucking change their mind because then idiots will call them out for being inconsistent. When inconsistency based on changing information is a town tell and tunnelling DESPITE changing information is a scum tell.
Anyway I am off to the GYM won;t be back before deadline. Please lynch clarity or Djo.
On November 21 2012 14:15 DarthPunk wrote: also his vote was parked uselessly day one on the wagon scum were pushing. i.e. ME.
@ DarthPunk
Do you plan to write a meta case against me or you don't think it is necessary ? I personally don't use meta but you do so I would appreciate to see what you can bring against me. Here are the links for my previous games.
On November 03 2012 10:43 Djodref wrote: For everyone, here is the compilation of the games I've played so far with the corresponding filters. It's very good that we know each others but I guess that you didn't really research my meta last game. So here you go !
Also, at the exception of the lack of scumhunting, which I gave a reason for, do you see any point that I didn't address correctly in your case ?
You seem to be under the impression that this is not a big deal. That is false. It is a huge scum tell. And I may look at your meta if I have the time but whatever I find will not change the fact that you did not scum hunt at all until prompted and you are now tunnelling the guy accusing you.
Blazinghand. I am super afraid if you die tonight I won't be able to lynch Djo if S&B flips green. Like. It is super obvious he is scum to me. I would really like to lynch him and then maybe S&B.
On November 21 2012 16:19 Djodref wrote: My bad, I found it back...
@ DarthPunk
Well, it's not a big deal for me because I know I am town and my whole setup speculation setup ordeal should have been able to solve us the game without scumhunting. I'm sorry if I have preferred a pure logical way to solve this game to the hard way (i.e. going through >150 pages of posts). I'm pretty sure that the last scum would be forced to concede right now if we could have one or two more confirmed townies. It has turned out to backfire at me because debears had most likely a check on Hopeless who is already confirmed by the setup. But it makes me an easy target, so I've been very wary of the fact that you came after me knowing for sure that I was scum. My case on you stands and you didn't address it yet. So, yes, I'm tunneling you.
Your case was crap. Why should I answer it?
It boils down to this.
The ZB lynch was bad in hindsight. Yet you did nothing to stop it and hindsight is 20/20
I was inactive and then active.
herp derp. Where is the case. You pointed out some flaws in my play. Grats that's how scum build their cases. YOu have not shown the mafia motive behind my posts or a anti-town mindset in my play.
Add to that you said you were making a case on clarity it never showed up and you instead started tunneling the person who thinks you are scum.
I doubt anything I say can stop you from tunnelling me. That is because you are scum and you don't care what I say. You just want your mislynch.
On November 21 2012 17:33 Blazinghand wrote: if it's obvious to you can't you make it obvious to everyone else? btw like 100% me and hopeless are the nks for tonight and tomorrow night
I am trying. I don't know how HE HASN'T SCUMHUNTED doesn't set alarm bells off for everyone else.
On November 21 2012 17:41 Blazinghand wrote: dude if you can just overlook the fact that djodref hasn't been scumhunting at all you can see how he's been scumhunting
On November 21 2012 17:36 Blazinghand wrote: though DP claims to think of SnB as green so I wonder how a scum DP would get around that at MYLO
Exactly. If I was like LOL I thought S&B was scum all along or something I would be insta-lynched.
Well you wouldn't say that. If you went after S&B you'd do it by asserting your own towniness, pointing out his scumminess, and saying "process of elimination". You'd be earnest but strident and push your thoughts aggressively. Alternatively, you'd attack kickstart or iamp. You wouldn't say "I thought S&B was scum all along" and I think both you and I know that.
I wouldn't say it. But I would be saying it if I tried to lynch him. And it would be incredibly obvious. I think you and I both know that also.
Isn't it funny though that like the one thing Djo keeps coming back too is that scum would want S&B alive and blames me for wanting to lynch him first. But then he pushes my lynch over S&B also. I am scum for doing it. and He is townie and doing the same thing. Whilst calling me on it is the biggest part of his case on me and it is no part of my case on him.
At least I have a town read on S&B. He has been saying S&B is sooooo scummy we shouldn't leave him till last, then he lets clarity get lynched and now wants to lynch me first. I have a town read on S&B that is why I don;t want to lynch him.
Djo has a ? read on S&B and is being incredibly wishy-washy about actually lynching him.
On November 20 2012 22:47 Clarity_nl wrote: So do you believe snb is town? If so please explain why. Because if Djo is most likely scum and I'm 2nd most likely that means snb is town, right?
Yes I think he is town. Reason 1 meta. This isn't the S&B I rolled scum with Previously. Reason 2. He has actually contributed reads and cases. Finally it is my gut instinct because I doubt scum S&B would play this way as scum even if he has shifted his meta.
Could you elaborate on your town read on S&B ?
I have already told you. Asking questions is not contributing djo. I know you can't actually scumhunt because you are scum but still at least try to fake it k?
On November 21 2012 17:56 Djodref wrote: It's not the biggest part of my case. Its what made me realize that you had potential to be the last scum. The difference between you and me is how sure you are of your read on me. Honestly told, at the moment, you are the scummiest but I have been wrong about BH for all game long so I want to take all the possibilities into account first.
So the difference between you and me is that you are wishy-washy and I take clear positions and stances on things. And somehow that makes you super duper town and me scum?
That is also funny because somehow the person whose sole contribution is tunnelling two townies all game is, at the same time, incredibly wishy-washy.
Because it is good to have an easily accessible post containing someone's most recent thoughts after they are gone. Is there some reason that it is a bad idea?
I meant Hopeless and you as confirmed blues. You in particular. There is no reason you should not die tonight. I would be very surprised if you did not die. But if it isn't you it is going to be Hopeless.
On November 21 2012 19:10 Blazinghand wrote: what about iamp
He is not confirmed. Do you think it is realistic for the NK to not be you or Hopeless? What is the problem here? Once again you are being really weird and stubborn about a simple request.
On November 21 2012 19:10 Blazinghand wrote: cause you mentioned iamp which is kinda neat i guess since he's townie but you think scum would shoot him tonight?
I meant Hopeless. I get them confused all the time for some reason.
On November 21 2012 18:02 DarthPunk wrote: At least I have a town read on S&B. He has been saying S&B is sooooo scummy we shouldn't leave him till last, then he lets clarity get lynched and now wants to lynch me first. I have a town read on S&B that is why I don;t want to lynch him.
Djo has a ? read on S&B and is being incredibly wishy-washy about actually lynching him.
I didn't let Clarity get lynched. I was checking the thread with my phone for possible last minute counter bandwagon. I would hope to have one against you and I honestly don't know what I would have done if I had the opportunity to hammer S&B. The "consolidation" of Kickstart was a bad move in my opinion. Actually, right now, I'm not sure of who could be the last scum, and I would like you to give me some time to check what people have said of Clarity. I want to understand how this mislynch happened first and then re-evaluate my reads (and I mean even Kickstart and Iamp). I'm thinking that you are the last scum right now, but I wouldn't bet my life on it. I'll put enough work to present good cases (be it town cases or scum cases) so we can find the truth together. You might still be town, and I would appreciate you to get off your train and remove your confirmation bias goggles because I assure you that I'm going to flip green in you manage push your lynch on me.
On November 21 2012 19:10 Blazinghand wrote: what about iamp
He is not confirmed. Do you think it is realistic for the NK to not be you or Hopeless? What is the problem here? Once again you are being really weird and stubborn about a simple request.
he isn't confirmed. so why do you think he needs to write a will
When I wrote Iamp I meant hopeless. That is the cause of the confusion.
On November 21 2012 19:27 DarthPunk wrote: Ok, seeing as no one is talking all that much I am out. Hopefully we can get a load of info in the thread an hour before deadline.
why not now? scum's shoot me anyways
Because no one is really here apart from you me and djo. and none of us are really saying anything. I am planning on getting an early night. If you have stuff you want to say though, by all means, go for it.
On November 21 2012 19:27 DarthPunk wrote: Ok, seeing as no one is talking all that much I am out. Hopefully we can get a load of info in the thread an hour before deadline.
why not now? scum's shoot me anyways
Yeah, I think you are right, given Hopeless level of participation, you are more likely to be NKed tonight.
On November 21 2012 19:27 DarthPunk wrote: Ok, seeing as no one is talking all that much I am out. Hopefully we can get a load of info in the thread an hour before deadline.
why not now? scum's shoot me anyways
Yeah, I think you are right, given Hopeless level of participation, you are more likely to be NKed tonight.
On November 21 2012 19:27 DarthPunk wrote: Ok, seeing as no one is talking all that much I am out. Hopefully we can get a load of info in the thread an hour before deadline.
why not now? scum's shoot me anyways
Yeah, I think you are right, given Hopeless level of participation, you are more likely to be NKed tonight.
He says as he sends in his night action.
Could you get off my back for a minute ? This is pissing me off and I would like to stay rational right now...
you tunnel others then cry when you get tunnelled? watever, ill lay off til tomorrow.
On November 22 2012 05:27 iamperfection wrote: same question to you dp what are your reasons now i dont feel like digging through your filter to figure it out
I think he is town for pretty much the exact reason I think you are town. Meta. Some modicum of scumhunting. Meta.
The only thing you have over him is that you were pretty heavily involved in the hapa lynch. <3
That being said I have had a town read on S&B for a LONG time. I think Djo only just admitted he had one on him. He had a vote parked on him for a LONG time.
On November 22 2012 05:27 iamperfection wrote: same question to you dp what are your reasons now i dont feel like digging through your filter to figure it out
I think he is town for pretty much the exact reason I think you are town. Meta. Some modicum of scumhunting. Meta.
The only thing you have over him is that you were pretty heavily involved in the hapa lynch. <3
That being said I have had a town read on S&B for a LONG time. I think Djo only just admitted he had one on him. He had a vote parked on him for a LONG time.
On November 22 2012 11:49 Kickstart wrote: If djo was jked would he have been able to kill bh?
Yes. Because Scum RB takes priority. He get's roleblocked first and then can't jail. That is why when he jailed me and he was roleblocked I recieed no notification.
He jailed Djo because he thought he was scum and if he was not roleblocked it would have prevented a nightkill.
On November 22 2012 05:27 iamperfection wrote: same question to you dp what are your reasons now i dont feel like digging through your filter to figure it out
I think he is town for pretty much the exact reason I think you are town. Meta. Some modicum of scumhunting. Meta.
The only thing you have over him is that you were pretty heavily involved in the hapa lynch. <3
That being said I have had a town read on S&B for a LONG time. I think Djo only just admitted he had one on him. He had a vote parked on him for a LONG time.
Djo is the last scum.
I'm so jealous.. I didn't get my meta case :s
I don't need Meta to know you are scum.
Yet, that's what you mainly used in your cases against Z-Bo, that's what you use to decide that S&B is town. The reason why there is no meta case against me, it's because you cannot write one, because I'm town and you know it.
On November 22 2012 12:47 DarthPunk wrote: The correct play is to lynch S&B today though. As much as it pains me to say it, and as much as I doubt he will flip red.
##Unvote
##Vote:S&B
I am listening to players whom I respect and have often been right where I have been wrong.
Why would it be the correct play ? Why don't you try to convince the other town members that he is town and that I'm scum ?
Because, as you say he is an easy mislynch at mylo. Both Marv and Blazinghand told us to lynch him and they are much better players than me.
I am not so arrogant to think that I cannot be wrong in my read of him ESPECIALLY when that read is in direct conflict with much better players than myself.
Also this ruins any plans you had of an easy S&B mislynch at MYLO which makes me happy if he is in fact town and you are scum like I think.
On November 16 2012 10:32 marvellosity wrote: I am clearly town and a bigger asset (sorry DP)
Not offended at all it is true. But you are not clearly town so stop putting that Idea into peoples heads right now.
Also. Blazing hand would be fucking insane to fake claim JK day 1 as scum or as fucking SK. he is JK. So Marv as much as you would like to believe he is scum he is not and you are going to have to deal with that and use your 'assets' elsewhere.
You came to this conclusion after long spouting off the bh was scum.
Then shortly after you suggested a dt check
Whats the deal ?
Trying to waste the cops investigations ?
I was freaking paranoid about a BH fakeclaim. I am actually relieved in a way that he died tonight because it makes things much simpler.
I didn't say anything about it earlier because I wanted scum to kill BH like they are supposed to and not have a situation were BH was alive at MYLO and make us all freak out.
If he had not died tonight I would probably have said something along the lines of why isn't he dead yet? And started asking the questions that were never asked in my last game.
On November 22 2012 12:47 DarthPunk wrote: The correct play is to lynch S&B today though. As much as it pains me to say it, and as much as I doubt he will flip red.
##Unvote
##Vote:S&B
I am listening to players whom I respect and have often been right where I have been wrong.
Why would it be the correct play ? Why don't you try to convince the other town members that he is town and that I'm scum ?
Because, as you say he is an easy mislynch at mylo.Both Marv and Blazinghand told us to lynch him and they are much better players than me.
I am not so arrogant to think that I cannot be wrong in my read of him ESPECIALLY when that read is in direct conflict with much better players than myself.
Also this ruins any plans you had of an easy S&B mislynch at MYLO which makes me happy if he is in fact town and you are scum like I think.
I don't trust the opinions of dead people. That's the lamest excuse to justify a lynch. Marv died after N1 and he missed a big part of this game. BH might be a better player than you but his play was far from stellar during this game. And I know you are a very capable player, especially when it's a matter of pulling off solo victory as mafia.
The opinions of dead people are really useful. especially from players like marv and BH. It's not a lame excuse. It is the correct play as everyone in the thread knows. If S& is town he probably think that as well, even when it is his arse on the line.
Yeah. I am pretty good at playing scum I guess. That doesn't make me scum. In fact. I would argue that if I was scum I would have manoeuvred into a far better position than I currently enjoy.
But that is WIFOM so not a good argument. I love how I am scum regardless of my actions. If I didn;t vote S&B you would be ranting about how I am not lynching S&B (even though you are doing the same thing whilst calling me scum for it)
Now that I am there is some more bullshit about how it makes me scum.
It is also interesting how you try to discredit death posts, when any rational player does the opposite. Perhaps that is because BH called you out in his as scummier than me.
On November 16 2012 11:44 DarthPunk wrote: Oh. If there is a DT you should check BH.
Why did you suggest this dp you had recently had said this just a bit earlier in the thread
On November 16 2012 10:36 DarthPunk wrote:
On November 16 2012 10:32 marvellosity wrote: I am clearly town and a bigger asset (sorry DP)
Not offended at all it is true. But you are not clearly town so stop putting that Idea into peoples heads right now.
Also. Blazing hand would be fucking insane to fake claim JK day 1 as scum or as fucking SK. he is JK. So Marv as much as you would like to believe he is scum he is not and you are going to have to deal with that and use your 'assets' elsewhere.
You came to this conclusion after long spouting off the bh was scum.
Then shortly after you suggested a dt check
Whats the deal ?
Trying to waste the cops investigations ?
I was freaking paranoid about a BH fakeclaim. I am actually relieved in a way that he died tonight because it makes things much simpler.
I didn't say anything about it earlier because I wanted scum to kill BH like they are supposed to and not have a situation were BH was alive at MYLO and make us all freak out.
If he had not died tonight I would probably have said something along the lines of why isn't he dead yet? And started asking the questions that were never asked in my last game.
We knew from setup speculation that bh was already the jk... Your paranoia was not justified.
no. I read that set-up shit. It was possible that there were only 2 blues and no roleblocker. If there was no roleblocker that would have made a fake JK claim far less risky for scum.
Scum BH could have been a goon. Fake claimed RB and lied about being roleblocked for eternity. There were no roleblock claims at all. There was no evidence of a scum RB apart from the word of BH.
I was very paranoid about it and I am relieved I no longer have to be.
So I guess my fears were unwarranted. HOWEVER that does not mean I was not worried and at the time I asked for a DT check I had the same thoughts and he was NOT confirmed.
I know Djo will push this being scummy. But is it really?
On November 16 2012 11:44 DarthPunk wrote: Oh. If there is a DT you should check BH.
Why did you suggest this dp you had recently had said this just a bit earlier in the thread
On November 16 2012 10:36 DarthPunk wrote:
On November 16 2012 10:32 marvellosity wrote: I am clearly town and a bigger asset (sorry DP)
Not offended at all it is true. But you are not clearly town so stop putting that Idea into peoples heads right now.
Also. Blazing hand would be fucking insane to fake claim JK day 1 as scum or as fucking SK. he is JK. So Marv as much as you would like to believe he is scum he is not and you are going to have to deal with that and use your 'assets' elsewhere.
You came to this conclusion after long spouting off the bh was scum.
Then shortly after you suggested a dt check
Whats the deal ?
Trying to waste the cops investigations ?
I was freaking paranoid about a BH fakeclaim. I am actually relieved in a way that he died tonight because it makes things much simpler.
I didn't say anything about it earlier because I wanted scum to kill BH like they are supposed to and not have a situation were BH was alive at MYLO and make us all freak out.
If he had not died tonight I would probably have said something along the lines of why isn't he dead yet? And started asking the questions that were never asked in my last game.
We knew from setup speculation that bh was already the jk... Your paranoia was not justified.
no. I read that set-up shit. It was possible that there were only 2 blues and no roleblocker. If there was no roleblocker that would have made a fake JK claim far less risky for scum.
Scum BH could have been a goon. Fake claimed RB and lied about being roleblocked for eternity. There were no roleblock claims at all. There was no evidence of a scum RB apart from the word of BH.
I was very paranoid about it and I am relieved I no longer have to be.
This post shows that
Either DP doesn't care about all the work S&B and me have put in to figure out the setup because it shows that he might have read it but not understood our conclusions
Either DP has understood our conclusions but he doesn't acknowledge them because he cannot afford to recognize that we were actively helping town at that time
Get off your damn High horse. After all that set-up speculation that 'solved' everything you posted this
On November 19 2012 02:20 Djodref wrote: @ S&B
Would you agree that if our setup is TTTTT and that BH is SK then he automatically loses this game ? I mean, you have a "confirmed" JK going into MYLO or LYLO, getting role blocked every night with no evidence of any other blue role, then this "confirmed" JK has to go.
BH at LYLO + no other blue (dead or alive) = automatically lynch BH
If people remember this, then we can safely forget the TTTTT setup for the moment
Now you are all over me for thinking of something similar and are painting me as scummy for it. You are the biggest hypocrite EVER.
Also you are being frivolous with the facts and manipulative.
On November 22 2012 13:32 Hopeless1der wrote: you quoted him talking to marv, perfect one. We didn't crack the setup until Z-Bo's flip.
Even then It could have been a 5T setup with SK removed. I was worried about it. Now I don't have to be.
Tell me if BH had survived to MYLO and say Iamp and Hopeless had been killed without BH dying you wouldn't have been worried.
I would have been not be worried at all, I would have voted the other guy without a blink and said GG. Did you download the tool that Keir use to generate this setup ?
S&B, if you are town like I think you are understand thatt you are getting lynched today and try and set us up for a reasonable chance at victory if you flip town.
If you have the time some thoughts on each of the remaining players and some guidance on what to do if you are a mislynch would be greatly appreciated.
The point is that you had similar concerns to me at similar times DESPITE all your delving into set-up and yet someone who has openly stated to not have closely followed or even cared about that speculation had similar concerns making them scummy.
It is exactly the same to your calling me scum for having a town read not wanting to lynch S&B despite you doing the same thing.
My worries were justified and my obvious ignorance of all that Set-up bullshit should make them even MORE justified.
I refuse to speak more on set-up. It is useless now and It is the only thing djo can really talk about as scum which is why he loves to do so and steers everything towards set-up speculation again and again without fail.
On November 22 2012 13:32 Hopeless1der wrote: you quoted him talking to marv, perfect one. We didn't crack the setup until Z-Bo's flip.
Even then It could have been a 5T setup with SK removed. I was worried about it. Now I don't have to be.
Tell me if BH had survived to MYLO and say Iamp and Hopeless had been killed without BH dying you wouldn't have been worried.
I would have been not be worried at all, I would have voted the other guy without a blink and said GG. Did you download the tool that Keir use to generate this setup ?
I stated that Hopeless and BH were 100% confirmed in this post after debears death. And this was the natural follow-up of all our setup extrapolation. And I have blamed S&B for his vote against BH early D3 because it should have been the only possible conclusion for both of us at this point.
On November 19 2012 12:28 Djodref wrote: Shit guys, are you actually voting me for this ? I admit I didn't explain it well but I don't think its a good reason to vote for someone...
On a side note, I think that our setup is MVCCDTT. This is what makes the most sense right now and S&B should know it as well. I'm totally dropping BH now.
But if there is another blue, he has to claim noaw imo.
On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote: Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts.
I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have. MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play. Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you. ##Vote S&B
On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote: Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts.
I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have. MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play. Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you. ##Vote S&B
The reason that I'm still voting BH is that I'm pissed off at him for insulting me and therefore I want him to die.
If we have no more blue claims then he's pretty much confirmed by the setup possibilities - the blues we already know about mean the setup must at least include MCCV. That's only three letters, and a TTT setup wouldn't include a godfather, so there has to be at least one more letter. So either there is another blue, or we have TTMCCDV and BH is confirmed. Unfortunately.
@ S&B
Well, these are good reasons for putting your vote on someone but that's not going to happen and we have to play to win. There is no other blue in my opinion. Another Jailkeeper would have counterclaimed BH in ages. A Town RoleBlocker would have blocked someone. Another Vigilante would mean MCCVVVV which is unlikely as hell Another Cop would mean MCCCCVT which is also quite unlikely, without adding the fact that we have no sign of an SK and that another Cop with 2 possible checks would solve us the game right away.
There is no other, the time for speculation is over. The setup is MVCCDTT, there is no SK and Hopeless is 100% confirmed Luigi the Vig and Blazinghand is 100% confirmed JailKeeper. And the fact that they are 100% confirmed is great and that's what all this setup speculation gave us. So, yes, it is useful ! You should get your vote off BH's back now...
All you do is talk about set-up. Because it allows you to act like you are contributing when you are in fact not. Even when this speculation is obsolete you return to it. Every discussion you steer back to set-up.
On November 16 2012 11:44 DarthPunk wrote: Oh. If there is a DT you should check BH.
Why did you suggest this dp you had recently had said this just a bit earlier in the thread
On November 16 2012 10:36 DarthPunk wrote:
On November 16 2012 10:32 marvellosity wrote: I am clearly town and a bigger asset (sorry DP)
Not offended at all it is true. But you are not clearly town so stop putting that Idea into peoples heads right now.
Also. Blazing hand would be fucking insane to fake claim JK day 1 as scum or as fucking SK. he is JK. So Marv as much as you would like to believe he is scum he is not and you are going to have to deal with that and use your 'assets' elsewhere.
You came to this conclusion after long spouting off the bh was scum.
Then shortly after you suggested a dt check
Whats the deal ?
Trying to waste the cops investigations ?
I was freaking paranoid about a BH fakeclaim. I am actually relieved in a way that he died tonight because it makes things much simpler.
I didn't say anything about it earlier because I wanted scum to kill BH like they are supposed to and not have a situation were BH was alive at MYLO and make us all freak out.
If he had not died tonight I would probably have said something along the lines of why isn't he dead yet? And started asking the questions that were never asked in my last game.
We knew from setup speculation that bh was already the jk... Your paranoia was not justified.
no. I read that set-up shit. It was possible that there were only 2 blues and no roleblocker. If there was no roleblocker that would have made a fake JK claim far less risky for scum.
Scum BH could have been a goon. Fake claimed RB and lied about being roleblocked for eternity. There were no roleblock claims at all. There was no evidence of a scum RB apart from the word of BH.
I was very paranoid about it and I am relieved I no longer have to be.
This post shows that
Either DP doesn't care about all the work S&B and me have put in to figure out the setup because it shows that he might have read it but not understood our conclusions
Either DP has understood our conclusions but he doesn't acknowledge them because he cannot afford to recognize that we were actively helping town at that time
Get off your damn High horse. After all that set-up speculation that 'solved' everything you posted this
On November 19 2012 02:20 Djodref wrote: @ S&B
Would you agree that if our setup is TTTTT and that BH is SK then he automatically loses this game ? I mean, you have a "confirmed" JK going into MYLO or LYLO, getting role blocked every night with no evidence of any other blue role, then this "confirmed" JK has to go.
BH at LYLO + no other blue (dead or alive) = automatically lynch BH
If people remember this, then we can safely forget the TTTTT setup for the moment
Now you are all over me for thinking of something similar and are painting me as scummy for it. You are the biggest hypocrite EVER.
Also you are being frivolous with the facts and manipulative.
@ DarthPunk
My post was intended to show that you discarded the following posts in my filter. It means that you are only looking for what is really scummy and not what I have done to actually contribute. I don't understand one single instant how you can be relieved after BH death. Maybe you were afraid that he was going to figure you out ?
What really gave us the setup extrapolation after debears death is in the following spoiler + Show Spoiler +
On November 19 2012 12:28 Djodref wrote: Shit guys, are you actually voting me for this ? I admit I didn't explain it well but I don't think its a good reason to vote for someone...
On a side note, I think that our setup is MVCCDTT. This is what makes the most sense right now and S&B should know it as well. I'm totally dropping BH now.
But if there is another blue, he has to claim noaw imo.
On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote: Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts.
I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have. MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play. Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you. ##Vote S&B
On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote: Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts.
I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have. MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play. Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you. ##Vote S&B
The reason that I'm still voting BH is that I'm pissed off at him for insulting me and therefore I want him to die.
If we have no more blue claims then he's pretty much confirmed by the setup possibilities - the blues we already know about mean the setup must at least include MCCV. That's only three letters, and a TTT setup wouldn't include a godfather, so there has to be at least one more letter. So either there is another blue, or we have TTMCCDV and BH is confirmed. Unfortunately.
@ S&B
Well, these are good reasons for putting your vote on someone but that's not going to happen and we have to play to win. There is no other blue in my opinion. Another Jailkeeper would have counterclaimed BH in ages. A Town RoleBlocker would have blocked someone. Another Vigilante would mean MCCVVVV which is unlikely as hell Another Cop would mean MCCCCVT which is also quite unlikely, without adding the fact that we have no sign of an SK and that another Cop with 2 possible checks would solve us the game right away.
There is no other blue, the time for speculation is over. The setup is MVCCDTT, there is no SK and Hopeless is 100% confirmed Luigi the Vig and Blazinghand is 100% confirmed JailKeeper. And the fact that they are 100% confirmed is great and that's what all this setup speculation gave us. So, yes, it is useful ! You should get your vote off BH's back now...
No I was not aware he was confirmed in the case of there being 2 blues. I ignored all that set-up bullshit because I was scum hunting. You have not scum hunted. I refuse to discuss set-up with you further.
I was wrong. I did not realise it. That does not make me scum.
The way that you have not scum hunted and that the bulk of your 'contributions' come from set-up speculation/mass claim speculation which is a very safe topic to make 'contributions' on as scum makes you scum however.
On November 22 2012 13:32 Hopeless1der wrote: you quoted him talking to marv, perfect one. We didn't crack the setup until Z-Bo's flip.
Even then It could have been a 5T setup with SK removed. I was worried about it. Now I don't have to be.
Tell me if BH had survived to MYLO and say Iamp and Hopeless had been killed without BH dying you wouldn't have been worried.
I would have been not be worried at all, I would have voted the other guy without a blink and said GG. Did you download the tool that Keir use to generate this setup ?
I stated that Hopeless and BH were 100% confirmed in this post after debears death. And this was the natural follow-up of all our setup extrapolation. And I have blamed S&B for his vote against BH early D3 because it should have been the only possible conclusion for both of us at this point.
On November 19 2012 12:28 Djodref wrote: Shit guys, are you actually voting me for this ? I admit I didn't explain it well but I don't think its a good reason to vote for someone...
On a side note, I think that our setup is MVCCDTT. This is what makes the most sense right now and S&B should know it as well. I'm totally dropping BH now.
But if there is another blue, he has to claim noaw imo.
On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote: Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts.
I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have. MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play. Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you. ##Vote S&B
On November 19 2012 23:23 Djodref wrote:
On November 19 2012 22:46 strongandbig wrote:
On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote: Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts.
I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have. MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play. Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you. ##Vote S&B
The reason that I'm still voting BH is that I'm pissed off at him for insulting me and therefore I want him to die.
If we have no more blue claims then he's pretty much confirmed by the setup possibilities - the blues we already know about mean the setup must at least include MCCV. That's only three letters, and a TTT setup wouldn't include a godfather, so there has to be at least one more letter. So either there is another blue, or we have TTMCCDV and BH is confirmed. Unfortunately.
@ S&B
Well, these are good reasons for putting your vote on someone but that's not going to happen and we have to play to win. There is no other blue in my opinion. Another Jailkeeper would have counterclaimed BH in ages. A Town RoleBlocker would have blocked someone. Another Vigilante would mean MCCVVVV which is unlikely as hell Another Cop would mean MCCCCVT which is also quite unlikely, without adding the fact that we have no sign of an SK and that another Cop with 2 possible checks would solve us the game right away.
There is no other, the time for speculation is over. The setup is MVCCDTT, there is no SK and Hopeless is 100% confirmed Luigi the Vig and Blazinghand is 100% confirmed JailKeeper. And the fact that they are 100% confirmed is great and that's what all this setup speculation gave us. So, yes, it is useful ! You should get your vote off BH's back now...
All you do is talk about set-up. Because it allows you to act like you are contributing when you are in fact not. Even when this speculation is obsolete you return to it. Every discussion you steer back to set-up.
This is blatantly scummy.
I'm not talking about the setup here. I'm showing everybody that you called me a liar by twisting the timeline of the events.
I got it wrong. Doesn't make me scum or stop you from being scum.
On November 22 2012 13:32 Hopeless1der wrote: you quoted him talking to marv, perfect one. We didn't crack the setup until Z-Bo's flip.
Even then It could have been a 5T setup with SK removed. I was worried about it. Now I don't have to be.
Tell me if BH had survived to MYLO and say Iamp and Hopeless had been killed without BH dying you wouldn't have been worried.
I would have been not be worried at all, I would have voted the other guy without a blink and said GG. Did you download the tool that Keir use to generate this setup ?
I stated that Hopeless and BH were 100% confirmed in this post after debears death. And this was the natural follow-up of all our setup extrapolation. And I have blamed S&B for his vote against BH early D3 because it should have been the only possible conclusion for both of us at this point.
On November 19 2012 12:28 Djodref wrote: Shit guys, are you actually voting me for this ? I admit I didn't explain it well but I don't think its a good reason to vote for someone...
On a side note, I think that our setup is MVCCDTT. This is what makes the most sense right now and S&B should know it as well. I'm totally dropping BH now.
But if there is another blue, he has to claim noaw imo.
On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote: Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts.
I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have. MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play. Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you. ##Vote S&B
On November 19 2012 23:23 Djodref wrote:
On November 19 2012 22:46 strongandbig wrote:
On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote: Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts.
I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have. MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play. Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you. ##Vote S&B
The reason that I'm still voting BH is that I'm pissed off at him for insulting me and therefore I want him to die.
If we have no more blue claims then he's pretty much confirmed by the setup possibilities - the blues we already know about mean the setup must at least include MCCV. That's only three letters, and a TTT setup wouldn't include a godfather, so there has to be at least one more letter. So either there is another blue, or we have TTMCCDV and BH is confirmed. Unfortunately.
@ S&B
Well, these are good reasons for putting your vote on someone but that's not going to happen and we have to play to win. There is no other blue in my opinion. Another Jailkeeper would have counterclaimed BH in ages. A Town RoleBlocker would have blocked someone. Another Vigilante would mean MCCVVVV which is unlikely as hell Another Cop would mean MCCCCVT which is also quite unlikely, without adding the fact that we have no sign of an SK and that another Cop with 2 possible checks would solve us the game right away.
There is no other, the time for speculation is over. The setup is MVCCDTT, there is no SK and Hopeless is 100% confirmed Luigi the Vig and Blazinghand is 100% confirmed JailKeeper. And the fact that they are 100% confirmed is great and that's what all this setup speculation gave us. So, yes, it is useful ! You should get your vote off BH's back now...
All you do is talk about set-up. Because it allows you to act like you are contributing when you are in fact not. Even when this speculation is obsolete you return to it. Every discussion you steer back to set-up.
This is blatantly scummy.
I'm not talking about the setup here. I'm showing everybody that you called me a liar by twisting the timeline of the events.
I got it wrong. Doesn't make me scum or stop you from being scum.
This discussion is done.
I hope that this discussion can help people realize that you are the last scum. I understand that you are that obsessed to lynch me because I figured you out.
How exactly did you figure me out. Because I have a town read on S&B? the same S&B that you were wishy-washy as shit on until called out for your position which was then a town read. Despite parking your vote on him most of the previous cycle?
Or is it because I said you have not done any scum hunting (which you haven't) and that you think that is not a good enough reason to lynch you (it is.)
Your case on me was AFTER I called you out. Before that you were supposedly building a case on CLARITY.
Also I hammered and called out HAPA day one. Your vote was parked uselessly on the Lynch scum was pushing day one.
On November 22 2012 13:37 DarthPunk wrote: [quote]
Even then It could have been a 5T setup with SK removed. I was worried about it. Now I don't have to be.
Tell me if BH had survived to MYLO and say Iamp and Hopeless had been killed without BH dying you wouldn't have been worried.
I would have been not be worried at all, I would have voted the other guy without a blink and said GG. Did you download the tool that Keir use to generate this setup ?
I stated that Hopeless and BH were 100% confirmed in this post after debears death. And this was the natural follow-up of all our setup extrapolation. And I have blamed S&B for his vote against BH early D3 because it should have been the only possible conclusion for both of us at this point.
On November 19 2012 12:28 Djodref wrote: Shit guys, are you actually voting me for this ? I admit I didn't explain it well but I don't think its a good reason to vote for someone...
On a side note, I think that our setup is MVCCDTT. This is what makes the most sense right now and S&B should know it as well. I'm totally dropping BH now.
But if there is another blue, he has to claim noaw imo.
On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote: Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts.
I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have. MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play. Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you. ##Vote S&B
On November 19 2012 23:23 Djodref wrote:
On November 19 2012 22:46 strongandbig wrote:
On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote: Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts.
I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have. MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play. Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you. ##Vote S&B
The reason that I'm still voting BH is that I'm pissed off at him for insulting me and therefore I want him to die.
If we have no more blue claims then he's pretty much confirmed by the setup possibilities - the blues we already know about mean the setup must at least include MCCV. That's only three letters, and a TTT setup wouldn't include a godfather, so there has to be at least one more letter. So either there is another blue, or we have TTMCCDV and BH is confirmed. Unfortunately.
@ S&B
Well, these are good reasons for putting your vote on someone but that's not going to happen and we have to play to win. There is no other blue in my opinion. Another Jailkeeper would have counterclaimed BH in ages. A Town RoleBlocker would have blocked someone. Another Vigilante would mean MCCVVVV which is unlikely as hell Another Cop would mean MCCCCVT which is also quite unlikely, without adding the fact that we have no sign of an SK and that another Cop with 2 possible checks would solve us the game right away.
There is no other, the time for speculation is over. The setup is MVCCDTT, there is no SK and Hopeless is 100% confirmed Luigi the Vig and Blazinghand is 100% confirmed JailKeeper. And the fact that they are 100% confirmed is great and that's what all this setup speculation gave us. So, yes, it is useful ! You should get your vote off BH's back now...
All you do is talk about set-up. Because it allows you to act like you are contributing when you are in fact not. Even when this speculation is obsolete you return to it. Every discussion you steer back to set-up.
This is blatantly scummy.
I'm not talking about the setup here. I'm showing everybody that you called me a liar by twisting the timeline of the events.
I got it wrong. Doesn't make me scum or stop you from being scum.
This discussion is done.
I hope that this discussion can help people realize that you are the last scum. I understand that you are that obsessed to lynch me because I figured you out.
How exactly did you figure me out. Because I have a town read on S&B? the same S&B that you were wishy-washy as shit on until called out for your position which was then a town read. Despite parking your vote on him most of the previous cycle?
Or is it because I said you have not done any scum hunting (which you haven't) and that you think that is not a good enough reason to lynch you (it is.)
Your case on me was AFTER I called you out. Before that you were supposedly building a case on CLARITY.
Also I hammered and called out HAPA day one. Your vote was parked uselessly on the Lynch scum was pushing day one.
I was building my case on Clarity when I have noticed the post where he saidthat it would be a smart move for the last scum to keep S&B alive if he was town.
Which you are now doing.
On November 22 2012 14:48 Djodref wrote: So then I've noticed that you were the only one of us with a town read on S&B which you based on meta only.
You now have a town read on S&B based on DP is scum. Which is despite you having a vote parked on him fro days and being incredibly wishy-washy about it.
On November 22 2012 14:48 Djodref wrote: Also, I found the way you overreacted to my early doubts about you startling. That;s when I decided to build a case against you instead. And that case holds...
Your case was that I lynched ZB and that it was my fault for thinking a miller claim was not identical to a JK claim. (lol wat?)
Your case does not 'hold' because it is really good, or Because I am scum. It 'holds' because it is shit and there is nothing to refute and nothing to suggest I am scum.
On November 22 2012 13:37 DarthPunk wrote: [quote]
Even then It could have been a 5T setup with SK removed. I was worried about it. Now I don't have to be.
Tell me if BH had survived to MYLO and say Iamp and Hopeless had been killed without BH dying you wouldn't have been worried.
I would have been not be worried at all, I would have voted the other guy without a blink and said GG. Did you download the tool that Keir use to generate this setup ?
I stated that Hopeless and BH were 100% confirmed in this post after debears death. And this was the natural follow-up of all our setup extrapolation. And I have blamed S&B for his vote against BH early D3 because it should have been the only possible conclusion for both of us at this point.
On November 19 2012 12:28 Djodref wrote: Shit guys, are you actually voting me for this ? I admit I didn't explain it well but I don't think its a good reason to vote for someone...
On a side note, I think that our setup is MVCCDTT. This is what makes the most sense right now and S&B should know it as well. I'm totally dropping BH now.
But if there is another blue, he has to claim noaw imo.
On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote: Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts.
I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have. MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play. Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you. ##Vote S&B
On November 19 2012 23:23 Djodref wrote:
On November 19 2012 22:46 strongandbig wrote:
On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote: Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts.
I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have. MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play. Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you. ##Vote S&B
The reason that I'm still voting BH is that I'm pissed off at him for insulting me and therefore I want him to die.
If we have no more blue claims then he's pretty much confirmed by the setup possibilities - the blues we already know about mean the setup must at least include MCCV. That's only three letters, and a TTT setup wouldn't include a godfather, so there has to be at least one more letter. So either there is another blue, or we have TTMCCDV and BH is confirmed. Unfortunately.
@ S&B
Well, these are good reasons for putting your vote on someone but that's not going to happen and we have to play to win. There is no other blue in my opinion. Another Jailkeeper would have counterclaimed BH in ages. A Town RoleBlocker would have blocked someone. Another Vigilante would mean MCCVVVV which is unlikely as hell Another Cop would mean MCCCCVT which is also quite unlikely, without adding the fact that we have no sign of an SK and that another Cop with 2 possible checks would solve us the game right away.
There is no other, the time for speculation is over. The setup is MVCCDTT, there is no SK and Hopeless is 100% confirmed Luigi the Vig and Blazinghand is 100% confirmed JailKeeper. And the fact that they are 100% confirmed is great and that's what all this setup speculation gave us. So, yes, it is useful ! You should get your vote off BH's back now...
All you do is talk about set-up. Because it allows you to act like you are contributing when you are in fact not. Even when this speculation is obsolete you return to it. Every discussion you steer back to set-up.
This is blatantly scummy.
I'm not talking about the setup here. I'm showing everybody that you called me a liar by twisting the timeline of the events.
I got it wrong. Doesn't make me scum or stop you from being scum.
This discussion is done.
I hope that this discussion can help people realize that you are the last scum. I understand that you are that obsessed to lynch me because I figured you out.
How exactly did you figure me out. Because I have a town read on S&B? the same S&B that you were wishy-washy as shit on until called out for your position which was then a town read. Despite parking your vote on him most of the previous cycle?
Or is it because I said you have not done any scum hunting (which you haven't) and that you think that is not a good enough reason to lynch you (it is.)
Your case on me was AFTER I called you out. Before that you were supposedly building a case on CLARITY.
Also I hammered and called out HAPA day one. Your vote was parked uselessly on the Lynch scum was pushing day one.
I showed that your vote switch from Z-Bo to Hapa was not natural. You were certainly bussing him or preparing for a bus day 2 because people were getting suspicious of him and Hapa would have been lynched anyway because not night killed by the mafia.
It was not natural to vote for the person I had last called scummiest in my death post? OMG if you are town you are terrible.
On November 15 2012 10:34 iamperfection wrote: DP DO NOT RUN AWAY IF YOUR TOWN. Give reads on the people voting on you.
I just did.
more
How about this. I was probably not going to be lynched until two of the best town players I know who are very rarely wrong about scum reads lead the most retarded wagon in the world on me which is wrong.
So either they are worse than I thought. Can't read me at all or are scum.
Hapa is not playing the same as GSL he is playing worse. Hi scum game is townie though so be wary of that. But he is not giving the confident and often correct reads taht he usually gives as town.
He is starting up a stupid fucking wagon that he is usually wary of as town. Hapa is like the fucking divine presence of level headedness usually but this band wagon is not it.
BH I have never played with before. But he is reading scum into things that should not be read as scummy. SO he might just be worse than I thought.
Marv is actually fucking right although rightly confused but seems townie from genuinely wanting to figure shit out rather than leap onto a retarded wagon.
Also.
How much fucking conviction does BH have in his reads when I am so scummy but then he insta votes for a fucking Coin toss.
BH is scum. Because he doesn't give a fuck about the lynch as long as he lynches a townie.
On November 15 2012 10:50 Hapahauli wrote: ##Unvote
Yeah marv's right here - DP's being pretty townie going down.
On November 15 2012 10:46 debears wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote Hopeless
Plz for the love of god vote hopeless ppl
Can we please lynch this guy? Please?
##Vote Debears
Scum. YOu just tried to form a band wagon on me for this very thing you are doing right now. You are fucking derailing the fucking lynch and there is no way in hell debears is going to be lynched. Also town hapa would never do this so iam now talking to Scum hapa whom I dislike.
On November 15 2012 10:50 Z-BosoN wrote: Also, if anyone is thinking of voting me, it is becasue you are blindly sheeping marv. Fucking read my defense, FUCKING READ WHAT I SAID REGARDING MY META. FUCKING READ WHAT HAPA SAID. It's a case based SOLELY ON META
DP is acting VERY differently then when he is scum gettingl ynched. I want to unvote him and vote for hopeless.
Also, if I for some godly reason to get lynched. Here are my reads:
Hapa: scum scum scum. Gonna go after him day 2 should I live.
BH probably scum. I can't fathom his claim AT ALL. Kill him should he be alive in like, day 3.
Rest of everybody I'm not sure. Marv is prob town, an arrogant fucking one who can't see the reasonable explanation I've given, but he's pretty much town.
Yeah die.
"Fucking read what Hapa said"
"Hapa; scum scum scum"
##Unvote ##Vote Z-Boson
This bussing is so transparent
On November 15 2012 10:58 DarthPunk wrote: ##Unvote
On November 22 2012 14:57 Djodref wrote: EBWOP: I also hate the way that you attack me for some actions that I cannot really address because I don't really know why thrawn was having his vote against you. But he had pinned you because your play didn't fit you town meta D1 and he was right about it. I should have trusted thrawn judgement earlier but the problem is that nobody was really looking at you because you were the hammer vote. Bussing D1 exists guys !
So you don't know why he was pushing me but you should have trusted his judgement earlier?
On November 22 2012 14:57 Djodref wrote: EBWOP: I also hate the way that you attack me for some actions that I cannot really address because I don't really know why thrawn was having his vote against you. But he had pinned you because your play didn't fit you town meta D1 and he was right about it. I should have trusted thrawn judgement earlier but the problem is that nobody was really looking at you because you were the hammer vote. Bussing D1 exists guys !
So you don't know why he was pushing me but you should have trusted his judgement earlier?
I don't trust meta. I think it is only the icing on the cake to perfect case but it shouldn't hold so much value. You have used meta at your advantage a lot in this game and yet you have failed to bring my meta against me. I'd like to emphasize this point.
On November 15 2012 10:34 iamperfection wrote: DP DO NOT RUN AWAY IF YOUR TOWN. Give reads on the people voting on you.
I just did.
more
How about this. I was probably not going to be lynched until two of the best town players I know who are very rarely wrong about scum reads lead the most retarded wagon in the world on me which is wrong.
So either they are worse than I thought. Can't read me at all or are scum.
Hapa is not playing the same as GSL he is playing worse. Hi scum game is townie though so be wary of that. But he is not giving the confident and often correct reads taht he usually gives as town.
He is starting up a stupid fucking wagon that he is usually wary of as town. Hapa is like the fucking divine presence of level headedness usually but this band wagon is not it.
BH I have never played with before. But he is reading scum into things that should not be read as scummy. SO he might just be worse than I thought.
Marv is actually fucking right although rightly confused but seems townie from genuinely wanting to figure shit out rather than leap onto a retarded wagon.
Also.
How much fucking conviction does BH have in his reads when I am so scummy but then he insta votes for a fucking Coin toss.
BH is scum. Because he doesn't give a fuck about the lynch as long as he lynches a townie.
On November 15 2012 10:53 DarthPunk wrote:
On November 15 2012 10:50 Hapahauli wrote: ##Unvote
Yeah marv's right here - DP's being pretty townie going down.
On November 15 2012 10:46 debears wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote Hopeless
Plz for the love of god vote hopeless ppl
Can we please lynch this guy? Please?
##Vote Debears
Scum. YOu just tried to form a band wagon on me for this very thing you are doing right now. You are fucking derailing the fucking lynch and there is no way in hell debears is going to be lynched. Also town hapa would never do this so iam now talking to Scum hapa whom I dislike.
On November 15 2012 10:56 DarthPunk wrote:
On November 15 2012 10:52 Hapahauli wrote:
On November 15 2012 10:50 Z-BosoN wrote: Also, if anyone is thinking of voting me, it is becasue you are blindly sheeping marv. Fucking read my defense, FUCKING READ WHAT I SAID REGARDING MY META. FUCKING READ WHAT HAPA SAID. It's a case based SOLELY ON META
DP is acting VERY differently then when he is scum gettingl ynched. I want to unvote him and vote for hopeless.
Also, if I for some godly reason to get lynched. Here are my reads:
Hapa: scum scum scum. Gonna go after him day 2 should I live.
BH probably scum. I can't fathom his claim AT ALL. Kill him should he be alive in like, day 3.
Rest of everybody I'm not sure. Marv is prob town, an arrogant fucking one who can't see the reasonable explanation I've given, but he's pretty much town.
Yeah die.
"Fucking read what Hapa said"
"Hapa; scum scum scum"
##Unvote ##Vote Z-Boson
This bussing is so transparent
On November 15 2012 10:58 DarthPunk wrote: ##Unvote
##vote: HAPA
How the fuck is that 'unnatural'?
It's not natural because you are using association cases before the flip. Your reason for voting Hapa is that he tries to derail Z-Boson lynch and that he is "obviously bussing" Z-Boson when Z-Boson "obviously plants WIFOM" to protect Hapa for after the lynch. You wanted to lynch Z-Bo and you finally vote in the same direction as him, that's not natural. Moreover, I don't see town DP doing association cases before flip.
On November 22 2012 15:00 DarthPunk wrote: This is getting nowhere. I will no longer respond to you.
actually you guys will be responding to each other for what might be the next four or so days so you better get used to it.
Pray to god S&B is scum
if not we are going to be getting real comfy with each other .
@ iamp
Is this really your conclusion when you see DP and me going after each other throat like this ?
So, you are saying that both of us are town and we are both stupid for giving a town read on the last remaining scum ? I would like you to understand first that it is obvious that one of us has to be scum. Then, I would be glad if you could understand that DP has to be today lynch if we ever want to win this game.
I'm still waiting for your comments on my case against DP. For reference you can find it in the following spoiler. + Show Spoiler +
On November 21 2012 02:26 Djodref wrote:
DarthPunk
Part I --- Bussing Hapa During D1, DarthPunk has shown interest mainly in the persons of Clarity and Z-Boson. His interactions with Hapa were limited. As a reminder, please find here his famous "last will" post before getting almost lynched.
On November 15 2012 10:34 DarthPunk wrote: I am flipping town.
Lynch Z-Bo and clarity.
BH and Hapa need to be looked at closely.
Marv is 100% town
Debears is my second strongest town read. You got this debears. <3
Perfection town.
Crossfire town
S&B town
Hopeless null
Everyone I missed. Null and forgettable apparently. Never been mis-lynched before. I blew chunks this game
GO town!!!
Hapa needs to be looked closely at. DP has mentioned previously that he wouldn't vote for Hapa or marv D1 here + Show Spoiler +
On November 13 2012 11:52 DarthPunk wrote: <snip>
Yep. I would not. I would not vote day one for Hapa or marv either. Unless there was something super obvious I would not vote for them. But I do not think that would happen because they are all good players and that is why I respect them I suppose.
. Please also note that he gives a town read on Crossfire among other town reads.
So, Hapa is not a good lynch for today while Z-Bo is. And yet, after "realizing" that Hapa is scum while BH, debears and iamp started to threw their FoS around. We have
On November 15 2012 10:50 Z-BosoN wrote: Also, if anyone is thinking of voting me, it is becasue you are blindly sheeping marv. Fucking read my defense, FUCKING READ WHAT I SAID REGARDING MY META. FUCKING READ WHAT HAPA SAID. It's a case based SOLELY ON META
DP is acting VERY differently then when he is scum gettingl ynched. I want to unvote him and vote for hopeless.
Also, if I for some godly reason to get lynched. Here are my reads:
Hapa: scum scum scum. Gonna go after him day 2 should I live.
BH probably scum. I can't fathom his claim AT ALL. Kill him should he be alive in like, day 3.
Rest of everybody I'm not sure. Marv is prob town, an arrogant fucking one who can't see the reasonable explanation I've given, but he's pretty much town.
On November 15 2012 10:55 Z-BosoN wrote: LYNCH HAPAHAULI.
LYNCH BLAZINGHAND. when he is alive day 3.
marv, hope you learn you are not the fucking god of mafia, and see that meta reads are only worth it if it isn't fucking obvious stylistic proven logical and pre-claimed reasons.
On November 15 2012 10:58 DarthPunk wrote: ##Unvote
##vote: HAPA
I don't understand how you can come with the idea that your top scumread is planting WIFOM bombs. I think that his last minute vote was pressed by Hapa in the scumQT. What I find mostly interesting is his reaction afterward.
On November 15 2012 11:34 DarthPunk wrote: Also I am confirmed town. SO suck it, all of you.
Excellent double standards. He is confirmed town because his lynch was pushed by scum and he lynched Hapa but ZB and BH are not at all in the same position, especially ZB here, and have obviously bussed.
For your information, he retracts himself afterwards on BH because he certainly doesn't want to push a lynch on a JK. Part II --- The Lynch of Z-BoSon
I cannot emphasize enough how stupid Z-BosoN lynch was. I feel very sorry for not having been here in the thread the last week-end but IRL stuff prevails, especially saturday nights. Anyway, I have tried to explain to DP that he was using double standards regarding ZB and BH but I've been called an idiot for it. Here is the post for reference
On November 17 2012 15:29 Djodref wrote: @ DarthPunk
Let's look at the two following players
Blazinghands
uncontested JK claim
lynched Hapa
shows no sign of town play
Yet he is the last on your lynch list
Z-BosoN
uncontested miller claim
lynched Hapa
his meta speaks strongly against him but his defense for this makes sense
You want to lynch him today
The probability for us to have a miller is roughly the same than the probability for us to have a JK. They both couldn't confirm their claims by any actions. Why can you not understand this ?
But let's also take a look at the similarities between Z-Bo and DP at that time
Z-BoSoN
Has been almost lynched with confirmed scum votes against him
Has lynched Hapa last minute
DP
Has been almost lynched with confirmed scum votes against him
Has lynched Hapa last minute
Feels confirmed town for it
I don't understand how town DP could not sympathize with Z-BosoN at this point and has no doubts at all about his alignment. I really don't understand how he could not have at least doubts about it.
On November 17 2012 11:17 DarthPunk wrote: Here is SCUM Z-Boson from XXIV
On August 20 2012 12:25 Z-BosoN wrote: All right guys, some debriefing should take place. I agree that we shouldn't back off during the night. It is crucial we get it right this time. Let's see what we have:
YourHarry Extremely weird player. My main theory against him was that he was trying to do a lame bus on thrawn. Granted as thrawn was indeed vigi, this is not the case. However, his posts and comments generally are inconsistent, lack explanations, and keep changing. His posts are a diarrhea of WIFOM that I've decided are only here to confuse us with its vagueness, lack of clarity, and lack of purpose. Observe:
I am having second thoughts about Thrawn. First thing that doesn't make sense if Thrawn is scum: If Thrawn is indeed scum then he left that "bread crumb" post so that he can use that as evidence to mislead the town that he is vigilante. But Thrawn denied this post as the "bread crumb" post, and in his initial claim, he never even referenced this post in the first place...
Mega power WIFOM.
Second thing that I am not sure about is that, claiming vigilante is so dangerous for scum. One weak point in this line of thinking is that Thrawn did ask the mod to confirm that there could be more than one vigilante. I think it is possible that scum Thrawn DID ask the moderator in private prior to asking publicly that there could be more than one vigilante.
What is this supposed to implicate? Useless garbage.
STILL, whether or not there could be two vigilante... a counter vigilante claim would definitely have made Thrawn look suspicious. Would it not? I am not sure scum would have taken this risk.
He keeps babbling, and doesn't make a point. How in anyway is this post helping town? And we keep going:
But I am scared to unvote, because I will be the next person to be lynched after Thrawn
What is this supposed to mean? Is he a scum that wants us to think this or is he a townie that wants us to think that he is thinking... oh wait, WIFOM. This statement means CRAP.
... and more ....
I am not super confident in my scum read. Upon my reading just now, I found Jhyut case's scummy. Sheeping Thrawn's case here, but Jhyut did not care whether I am town or scum - he wanted to lynch me. I thought he was something else, but I guess I was wrong again. HE is also lurking pretty hard, so he may turn out to be scum
Crappety crap crap CRAP. He is randomly throwing around suspicions and not committing to anything. This in no conceivable way helps town.
My case against Golbat and Darth was based on my scum read on Thrawn. Not sure anymore.
Scumslip? How does he suddenly know that thrawn is not scum? Oh, that's right, he decided thrawn isn't scum with his brilliant and well thought-out argument, quoted above. I'm sure we can agree that his posts don't help the town and scream scum. Even though there was strong evidence that thrawn and YH were scum, due to the way they were playing it D1, I am still inclined to think he is scum. This requires much more thought, as we will have to be certain that we lynch a scum in the next day.
Jhuyt
He is a quiet and lurky player. He mentions possibilities, without compromise, and doesn't take a stance on anything.
The more I think of it the more I find that either Shady or Thrawn is scum. But since my basis of suspicion against Thrawn is basically gone I really can't vote for him. I think this post + Show Spoiler + coupled with Thrawn's reason to accuse Arch is enough for me too consider Shady as scum.
##Vote: Shady Sands
I have to go for the next couple of hours so I won't be here for the conclusion of the day, see ya later.
Bases himself off completely off of someone else's arguments, and announces he will have to leave. He then makes complains about how wishy-washy YourHarry is, says it is urgent that we lynch him, and starts to make shallow arguments on GK:
When I looked at the case GK made in this post I got the feeling that you might be scum, but I wasn't sure. When I couple that with your scumslip it makes more sense that he's right and therefore I think you're scum.
The benefit of the doubt line was one that I was considering to cut out of the post because it doesn't add anything and I'm pretty sure I misused the expression.
I should have said that while I do think you're scum I think that YH's behaviour is way scummier and so much more anti-town that a lynch on him is necessary so that we can have a clearer discussion.
But still considering YourHarry's wishy-washyness more scummy. Gets attacked by thrawn, who basically states the same things I'm saying right now, and is defended with weak and contentless posts. He simply doesn't take a solid stance on anyone (except maybe for YH). He's generally much more lurkier and gives off too few to work with.
Golbat Beastly Lurker. Joined on the thrawn bandwagon and disappeared. We should have lynched him a long time ago. This makes me understand why lurker policy needs to be so strong. If he was a civilian before, then we would be down a lurking civilian who was not helping at all. Now, however, we cannot afford another misslynch, and have to be more careful. But since he has barely any posts, it will be very hard to determine for sure what he is.
goodkarma and DarthPunk
I wanted to make sure that I wasn't skipping any details on the non-obvious choices. I've noticed some weird behavior on GK, which I've already mentioned. Since I've already gone through thrawn's filter, I can understand where GK could have found some reason to back off of thrawn. I don't think he is scum, as I can't think of why a scum would go ahead and say I'M SURE HES GUILTY, to backing off entirely. Scum generally take hesitant postures that lack commitment and conviction. I've read DarthPunk's filter carefully and wasn't able to detect anything too suspicious or compromising, as he has been making accusations and backing them up with well explained arguments. Also, both him and goodkarma have been making tons of pro-town and meaningful accusations. If one of them is mafia, it is not in this round that we will be able to lynch them unless we can pick up on something not yet noted.
Stutters and Obvious to come. I'm sleepy and have to wake up early tomorrow. Please, be active, let me know what you think of this post and contribute your own ideas and suspicions as well.
On August 17 2012 05:14 Z-BosoN wrote: My current lists of suspects stands as:
1) thrawn2112 2) YourHarry 3) Shady Sands
Due to all of my previous reasoning, and the fact that none of them have given me reason to retract my suspicions. However, I am very firm on my decision to execute lynchers. Day one is filled with circumstantial evidence and is very easy to make wrong conclusions, and the probability of a miss-lynch is very high. What we DO know for CERTAIN is that lurkers are way more prejudicial to the town, because we cannot have decent reads on them. This is a game of reasoning and deduction, but for that, we need DATA, INFORMATION, which lurkers fail to provide. For this first day, since I don't think any of the suspicions so far are conclusive, I will vote for a lurker. We have Golbat , Stutters, and JHuyt who have been balls-out lurkers. I say we should lynch one of those. Now, speaking for myself, how will I choose? Let's take a brief look at their history:
Golbat Has said nothing. Has two posts. He is lurker number one. He briefly accused thrawn with little evidence, threw some dirt on Shady, YourHarry and Solar. If we lynch him and he turns out townie, we will not have any new leads from that information, but will be down a useless townie. If we lynch him and he turns out scum, that will be great for us, but we will still have no leads. His accusations could just as easily be his scum buddies due to the fact that he hasn't done any sort of analysis on anybody. I would go even so far as to think that he will be mod-killed, due to not voting. If he suddenly posts now, we will have VERY strong reason to lynch him the next day, because posting some crap early on and disappearing until close to the deadline is a Strong Strong indicator of SCUM.
Onward.
Stutters He begins by agreeing that the discussion regarding SK is a waste of time he doesn't raise suspicion, doesn't do any investigative move, just says that and goes on to tell Solar to post better. Then he makes a longer post, telling Solar once again to stop with the trolling (which is fine, he was getting annoying), and making a small, non-compromising case against Shady. States some facts, then moves on, without taking an aggressive stance. Asks why getting filters is necessary (I had already mentioned this...). And just like that, he's gone. Basically he is on the same boat as Golbat. If we lynch him and he turns out townie, we will have lynched a semi-useless townie. If we lynch him and he turns out scum, great! But still no real info.
So that leaves... JHyut Who begins with similar obvious cases against Solar, Shady, and YourHarry. Escapes having to post anything else saying "I'm sorry, but I don't think I can be of any more use until new evidence is posted.". Then goes on to FOS thrawn, not using any original evidence. Without explaining anything, says that Archrun was not scum, says that thrawn is not scum, then votes for Shady Sands, without explaining, and just like that he's gone.
If we lynch him and he turns out townie, then thrawn will have some weight off his shoulders. He would have ignored accusing a greenie based on his lack of observation. Golbat will look about the same, because he was ignored alongside an innocent and we may figure something out on ArchRun as well (I still have to read more carefully his posts). If we lynch him and he turns out scum, Archrun and thrawn2112 will not look so good. He INSTANTLY dropped his suspicion of both these players, and this is resonated by my case against Thrawn, where I note a fishy situation between thrawn and either golbat,archrun and/or jhuyt. Here is a snippet so you guys don't have to go all the way back:
You made an FOS on Archrun by saying that he only had made 3 posts and had no scumhunting. However, you completely ignored Golbat, who only has 2 posts with one-dimensional scumhunting claims, being that the FIRST thing he says is that you are the scummiest player, to which you respond with:
Is this something I need to defend myself on? I am not sober right now so I don't think I could type a clear response till I wake up. Going to sleep now, I hope to wake up and see some more posts.
And you don't mention it again. This seems to me to be a clear, 100% dodge. You give IRL excuses and forget about it, even hinting that you don't feel the need to answer it. You ignore Golbat not once, but twice. A townie thrawn would definitely bother defending himself to a direct attack such as that, and would try to policy-lynch both Golbat and ArchRun.
However, you also didn't call JHyut, who also has 2 posts and even worse in quality than both the mentioned posters. Why mention only ArchRun and not Golbat, who called you out or JHyut? Either this is incredibly sloppy play, or you have a scum partner. If we assume the latter, then I can only think of:
1) You are trying to distract people from Golbat by making other accusations, and completely ignored JHyut. 2) You are trying to bus your partner ArchRun so as to draw away suspicion from yourself in case he comes up red. And, you completely ignored JHyut and Golbat. 3) You don't want to call out three people at once for whatever reason and chose someone other than your scum partner.
I find this Highly Suspicious.
That being said, I think right now the general lurkyness of JHuyt + the lack of quality of his posts + this weird switch of votes + his affiliation with Golbat and the amount of information we can make out if he is lynched, I will go with
##Vote JHuyt
PS: I noticed I got sniped. Dangerous timing there, Stutters. I will not bother changing my post, because I have to head out, but I think I will be able to log on near the deadline. Hope I sounded reasonable enough.
Great job increasing the discussion in this eery end of D1!
Here is Z-Boson this game
On November 16 2012 03:34 Z-BosoN wrote: Allright, out of the bunch, I'd be happiest with a crossfire lynch. I don't doubt his internet connection problems, but my main problems are of these two posts:
On November 14 2012 14:11 Crossfire99 wrote: I never want to get that behind ever again. Ugh. That was painful. So many useless posts. I can see why blazing really hated me for posting so much fluff in WLIIA. That's what makes it so weird this game, though. He's posted so much stuff that doesn't matter and just takes up space. In WLIIA, he came down on me so hard because of the amount of fluff I posted. He clearly knows it is anti-town, yet still does it here. I don't understand it at all. If he hadn't claimed jailkeeper (which I'm still not sure I buy), I probably would be voting for him right now. I'm willing to give him a little time to shape up his posting, but if he hasn't done it by then, I want to lynch him.
I am also very confused by strong. I played with him both when he was town and scum, and he never played like this. I believe someone was talking about him possibly changing his meta because it was too obvious when he was scum. Basically he is playing weirdly and has a decent number of fluff posts. This makes me suspicious of him. I find him less scummy than blazing, though.
Other than that though, I just need to digest everything. I have a serious headache now after reading all of that. If you want me to respond to something ask me a question. Otherwise I'll probably come in here sometime after I wake up tomorrow and comment on the top cases. I don't know of any other way of making sense of everything that is happening without going crazy.
Oh and for anyone who is wondering why I chose blazing and strong to single out: blazing really stuck out with the amount of fluff he's been posting plus I know how he plays town because he just did it in WLIIA; as for strong , I've played with him in my last two games, plus I just figured out that he was scum in our last game, WLIIA, so his play is fresh on my mind.
Bolded I read as: "look at me guys!!! I'm trying super hard to read everything!!" Underlined I read as an overexplanation to him posting his reads, which I find pretty scummy. He does that again here:
On November 15 2012 10:35 Crossfire99 wrote:
On November 15 2012 10:25 iamperfection wrote: Crossfire if you run away right now i will be super pissed the next 30 or so min of your belong in this thread right now.
I am freaking in this thread. I have to catch up on a lot of stuff. I am sorry I wasn't here. I planned to be here and spend time on this game, but then my internet crapped out. I don't know how else I can apologize for this.
On November 15 2012 08:58 marvellosity wrote: Z-Boson
Metarelated stuff. Let's a gogo. First of all, here's a sample post from him playing scum in Newbie XXIV. You'll have to excuse the length, but the point is it's length and effort.
Well that was quick. Let me see if I understand. Now, in day 3, in a MYLO situation, you propose to.
On August 21 2012 09:16 goodkarma wrote: Okay then. We need to be active today, and I'm wasting no time in getting started:
@Golbat:
You have a lot of explaining to do for your lurking, so please start there. Also, if you would kindly explain this quote:
On August 18 2012 15:59 Golbat wrote:
On August 18 2012 15:50 DarthPunk wrote:
On August 18 2012 15:32 Golbat wrote:
On August 18 2012 15:19 DarthPunk wrote:
On August 18 2012 15:10 Golbat wrote:
On August 18 2012 12:55 goodkarma wrote: @YourHarry:
Any suggestions as to who this someone else is that we should lynch?
My first thoughts are either Orchrow or you.
You seem to be very interested in keeping thrawn alive as long as possible... I suggest you start making some meaningful suggestions as to who you feel looks scummier. And it would also be helpful if you commented on people's most recent cases against thrawn, Orchrow, and yourself instead of continuing to strive to keep Thrawn alive.
There are situations here where the vigi still shouldn't claim. Like what if there is an sk, but the vigi hasn't used his shot yet? A vigi counter claim here would be terrible, as he could wind up rb'ed by scum and NK'ed before he can do anything.
And if we wait, who's to say town doesn't get a successful medic save or rb? Or that scum or the sk (if he exists) doesn't just sit back and do nothing for one night? There's a few different ways that there could be an sk but fewer than two night kills.
Waiting achieves nothing. My read, and the read of several of us here, is that thrawn is scum.It's time for him to go. Read through the case points against him, and show us why you feel he might be town. It's more productive than your WIFOM defense of thrawn you're presenting now.
I am in agreement that we should just lynch thrawn here. We seem to have caught a scum or even two, I think if thrawn flips scum then YH is almost certainly scum.
You are lurking pretty hard buddy. I would also like to ask Ochrow, solarsail Z-Boson and Stutters to increase their contributions.
I agree i'm lurking, but I feel that I have at least contributed well for my sparse filter. I made my case on thrawn, and cast my vote. When I see something worth discussing I mention it. I may not be living in the thread as hard as you, harry or thrawn, but at least I've contributed. What do you suggest I do to be less "lurky"? Make a shit case on someone in a misguided attempt to look active? Last game it got me lynched and cost town a vigi shot.
I'll go over the thread again and see if anything catches my eye, but I don't really see a case I can make that hasn't already been made ATM. At the very least i'll prod some people in my next couple posts.
Why so defensive? I understand that you got lynched for being over eager in XXII but your posting is markedly different than what I experienced there (although you were only alive for 24 hours so not much of a meta to read ) my post was not a personal attack but rather a call to all lurkers to contribute something.
Apologies. I didn't mean to come off as defensive, just that I'm not intentionally lurking, just not posting uselessly. in my last game I died before I could make a big contribution, and I just want to help catch a scum before I die this game. Now is the time to step it up I guess.
I've already explained what I felt was scummy about this, but in case you need a reminder:
You seem more interested in staying alive right now than in actually scumhunting. "Not posting uselessly" is not an excuse for not posting at all. Even one one-line post explaining your absence would have been useful at this point, and you wouldn't even contribute that.
You argue to not be lurking intentionally, but I would argue that yes, lurking for 48 hours is rather intentional. There's no way that you haven't thought up anything worthwhile in that time unless if between then and now you have forgotten altogether about this thread. And why would you do that if you want to "make a big contribution" that leads to the lynch of a scum?
One more question: Why did you tunnel Thrawn so hard?
##Vote: Golbat
Wait a minute. This is do or die for the town. You plan to consolidate your vote on someone who barely has any information on him and has been a hardcore lurker since day one? Because he tunneled thrawn, as if you didn't? Oh wait, that's right, you had a very sudden change of heart. But then, you go on and say that:
(...)And finally there's the final vote count for day 2. I currently believe the Thrawn mislynch had heavy scum support. One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support. If you look at the votes, and see where those who have established themselves as town have voted, I'm sure you'll agree the YourHarry lynch had some reputable town support behind it. And all of the current scum suspects are on the Thrawn mislynch.:
Well that's a very convenient argument, to go along with your name not being on that list. Drop in the bomb, wait for people to sheep you, then escape, no compromises. It's also ironic you didn't think of it before, when everybody wanted Shady Sands dead, who was the top poster at the moment. I'll go ahead and post the day one votes.
Same argument you used. Look at that, everyone on ShadySands list must be quite the suspects of being scum. Because, "One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support."
Except that he wasn't scum was he? This is because this argument is very weak. It only becomes suspicious when one target has a LOT of scumminess on him and a LOT of posts against him while the other looks so innocent and barely has anything substatial on him. This is not the case, because thrawn had a huge wall of text against him, not only the one you posted, but also the one that I did as well. DP also thought he was scum, and I will agree that the case against thrawn was fairly powerful.
DAY ONE should have been the time we should have lynched lurkers. DAY TWO, maybe. Not day 3, with a do or die scenario, against someone who, as Obvious pointed out, is clearly not giving a rat's ass about this game. This day will be the target with the greatest case against him. I really don't like how quick it was for you to vote on golbat, and how quick some people seemed to sheep you.
Regarding YourHarry, you went from him possibly being your third suspect to him being your main suspect with this post:
On August 21 2012 17:59 goodkarma wrote: Regarding YourHarry:
Sometimes the most obvious scum is the hardest to spot. YourHarry has a "meta" for sporadic and unpredictable play. But however strange, or different, or unpredictable his play is, if you were to look at the motivation behind his play, you can determine his alignment. With YourHarry, actions speak louder than words:
-First, YourHarry is fond of withholding information from us. YourHarry starts the game by making a weak WIFOM case on me, claiming if I'm not a mason I'm scum. He withholds his read on me for a long time until pressured to provide it, and while here maybe you could argue he had some justification, this is a recurring theme. Over and over again he's done this. With this "mason case," with vote swapping history, with providing reads on certain people (most recently, Golbat). This behavior is clearly anti-town. Obviously withholding information would be advantageous for scum as it could make it harder for others to get a good read on him. Could a townie also do this? Maybe, but this is just the tip of the iceberg.
-YourHarry is a fan of last-minute vote swapping. He has now twice last minute switched his vote to secure the mislynch of the top candidate. This behavior simply can't be ignored anymore. There is clear scum motivation here.
-The use of WIFOM first, actual use of reasoning when pressured later. He already did that today with Golbat. He started today with soft defending him, and then decides he will actually "read his filter." I'll say that again: only after defending Golbat with WIFOM does he decide it's a good idea to read his filter. Then, finally, he decides to actually present a case which is in fact against Golbat. In other words, he's demonstrated a lack of interest in actually contributing meaningfully to scumhunting.
-On top of this, today he has focused a large degree of effort on getting people to role claim. If my theory on scum's motive for the night kills is to be believed, YourHarry is trying to draw important town roles out of hiding as easy scum targets.
There's loads of scum motivation to be seen behind YourHarry's actions, and there are several cases that have already been made against him. Yet somehow he seems to have avoided getting lynched. My biggest issue with lynching him, and why he hasn't been higher on my "scum reads," has been that his play is consistently bad, and it would be easy to mislynch a town YourHarry. But if you look at his actions, they fit a scum agenda.
And finally there's the final vote count for day 2. I currently believe the Thrawn mislynch had heavy scum support. One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support. If you look at the votes, and see where those who have established themselves as town have voted, I'm sure you'll agree the YourHarry lynch had some reputable town support behind it. And all of the current scum suspects are on the Thrawn mislynch.:
Directly from the official end of day 2 post (minus the blue text): thrawn2112, as VisceraEyes, vigilante, was lynched!
I encourage everyone to put together their reads, as there's still time for you to express your viewpoints before we consolidate our vote in the last 24 hours of the day. And obviously supporting or dissenting case points towards this case would be much appreciated.
Your arguments are nothing new, it's what has been stated on YourHarry since the beggining of time. The only thing new that you add is that he is suspiciously wanting everyone to roleclaim. But why do you focus on him, and blatantly ignore DarthPunk's same remark:
On August 21 2012 13:49 DarthPunk wrote:
On August 21 2012 13:24 YourHarry wrote: Good point on scums not having time to respond to your latest post. But there were common suspicions between Golbat and Jhyut that were posted hours before deadline:
Z-boson's suspect list went: me, Jhyut, Golbat Darth's suspect list: Golbat, Jhyut, Solar GK's suspect list: Golbat, Jhyut, Obvious
Maybe WIFOM. But to me, I still can't get my head around scum Golbat lynching town Jhyut, who seemed to be scum Golbat's only way out.
Regards to no lynching, the only caveat for choosing to lynch today rather than tomorrow is the medic save. But if we decide to go ahead with our lynch today, I think claiming today is a good idea. We NEED a scum lynch today. And everyone claiming would make that much easier.
Sorry I am kind of busy and am not following the thread right now. but I agree with a mass claim. we are at the stage of the game where we need as much info as possible because we cannot afford a mistake. I feel really out of my depth here, scum are either afk winning or playing really well.
The same guy in which you solemnly confided your trust in your "will":
(...)I have played with DarthPunk before, and I’ve seen his scum play. He has been 10 times more proactive than he was in that game about sharing scum reads and I am convinced he is legitimately searching for scum this time around. Add to that that he’s come independently to similar reads as myself, and I feel he is my strongest town read right now. So all of you get behind him as your leader and consolidate your vote under him. There is a small (note: slim) chance that he’s scum, but you’re going to have to live with that. To have a chance of winning town needs to consolidate its vote and this is the best way to do this. Come the next night, I leave it to Darthpunk to leave his successor in a will similar to this one should he also get NK’ed.
Also, you say these incredibly serious accusations:
(...)There's loads of scum motivation to be seen behind YourHarry's actions, and there are several cases that have already been made against him. Yet somehow he seems to have avoided getting lynched. My biggest issue with lynching him, and why he hasn't been higher on my "scum reads," has been that his play is consistently bad, and it would be easy to mislynch a town YourHarry. But if you look at his actions, they fit a scum agenda.
And you don't bother explaining what you mean. You just sheep around with the main case that has already been made, add something meaningless (if you want to give it meaning, please go ahead and attack DarthPunk as well), then hint at the most serious accusations you can possibly make and don't go ahead and explain what you mean.
I agree wholeheartedly that YourHarry is scum, you can go ahead and check that in my filter , but the way you write this and the arguments you use make me feel very suspicious that you may be scum as well. Now I see that the only reason I had lifted my suspicions of you were mainly WIFOM, but your latest actions have definitely raised my eyebrows. Right now is the easiest time for a scum to slip, because any small mistake now will not slip by so easily.
One more thing, you say that the night kills were not discussed in detail. Read my filter, if you will. Actually this night's night kills is what is giving me additional ammo on YH. That soon to come.
On October 21 2012 13:13 DarthPunk wrote: Also his defense each time is oh you must be scum and trying to trick me. Nothing townie about it. And your 'meta' read is bleh.
On October 22 2012 00:52 DarthPunk wrote: Also ZB. Postgame I would like to go through how you make such accurate reads on me all the time. It get's frustrating as scum. (and also hilarious)
Oh-oh. This obviously-I'm-town post comes mostly from scum DP. Don't get so confident, I'm not dead sure on you yet!
On October 22 2012 01:08 Z-BosoN wrote: Sniped by austin. There we are, finally. Now waiting for the two days of unforgiving tunneling from him Hello Keirathi! How goes your scum life? Any thoughts you would like to trouble us with?
On October 22 2012 03:53 Z-BosoN wrote: k k Well, you really think he is scum and should insta-die before he's even had a chance to defend himself? I'm uncomfortable sending him to his grave like this... I'd like to know if you are scum. Think about it. It's the pro-town thing to do. If you are scum, it's pro-town because town will lynch a scum. If you are town, then it's pro-town that we don't have to kill you. Tell us
On October 02 2012 11:04 Z-BosoN wrote: Omfg austin really loves me. I'm just going to ignore you this time, I make an oath that your bad arguments will bother me no more. You also seem a lot more scummy this game. At least on LVII your arguments made sense, from an ape's perspective. Right now you just seem desperate. I, Z-BosoN, solemnly swear, to never defend myself from austin's scrutiny ever again.
On October 22 2012 05:24 Z-BosoN wrote: Austin, holy shit. For the first time ever, I've successfully agreed with every single thing in your post, every single thing. /applauds
Due to recent events though, Hapa is coming off pretty suspicious to me.
This is a selection of quotes from GSL3 and Liquid City. I paste them all here to demonstrate Z-Boson's ability, and indeed propensity, to throw in light-hearted comments. He's not all serious all the time.
Look at his filter here. Can you find that? At all? No, not really. It's completely absent. Arguably, this is it:
Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out
Right at the beginning. I find his attitude towards DP... not townie. There's a lack of interaction from Z-Bo towards DarthPunk that I wouldn't expect from townie Z-Bo.
On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote: Why not DarthPunk? He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
He finds him a 'good lynch', but he makes it clear that he's not using the referring to self as mislynch thing as scum. Is it that he's bitchy? Is that a scumtell? Who knows. He's "interested" to see how he goes in Day 2 though. The wording is just... ick.
On November 15 2012 08:21 Z-BosoN wrote: Had some internet problems.. Luckily it was on control C. In reply to marvs other post:
On November 15 2012 06:14 marvellosity wrote:
On November 15 2012 06:13 Z-BosoN wrote:
On November 15 2012 06:06 marvellosity wrote:
On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk? He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
i hate this. what's your read on him and why?
He can definitely be scum. The reasoning is above. I'd rather lynch Hopeless. Perhaps instead of "Why not DP?" just read "DP" and interpret that as a secondary assessment. I'd rather lynch Hopeless though, my post says it all. I find it interesting how you hated my bit on DP, instead of my bit on debears, your main lynch candidate. Is there anything else you want to add while you are at it? Do you agree with what I said?
I'm finding you kinda scummy all of a sudden actually.
"He can definitely be scum" is not a read, by the way. Anyone can definitely be scum.
Isn't it fucking obvious that I mean that to me he has a good chance of being scum, especially given what I've written on him? 10x better than your "I'm finding you kinda scummy" which adds shit to the thread. If Hopeless is a 10, DP is a 7, go with that. Try answering the question now? I phrased it very clearly and I find it important enough that I insist.
Anyways, Hopeless´s meta explanation makes sense, and that was my main issue with him. Right now I´d rather lynch DarthPunk. Gonna let marv finish to see if he will/will not change my mind.
##Unvote
There's weird things going on in this post. "If hopeless is a 10" to "his meta explanation makes sense".
Generally, given Z-Bo's intimate familiarity with DP's play and his meta, there seems to be no discernable effort to make any read on him on that basis. Z-Boson is calling DarthPunk scum right now, but there's no supporting evidence of games previously played. I don't buy it.
Also I bolded that other line where he says I should answer just because I find the wording completely unnatural. "I find it important enough that I insist".
None of this play looks like Z-Boson's town play.
When he is townie, he is very indecisive about who he wants to lynch. Just look at his filter in GSL3 or Liquid city. Liquid City his vote jumped around more times than I can count and with great uncertainty, and even his final vote he still seemed clueless. And in GSL3 he agonised for days on everyone before finally voting for someone.
Here there is no... communication with town, trying to figure things out properly. It's BAM, BlazingHand is scum. He pursues BlazingHand - and make no mistake, he can pursue very well as scum, check the filter I gave you. Then when BH is off the table, he comes back today with BAM, Hopeless is scum.
As quoted there's the absence of Z-bo interacting in a lighthearted manner with town that I am familiar with. His filter is short, with long posts, rather than longer, with lots of short posts figuring things out.
##Vote: Z-Boson
Therefore, I am switching my vote from bh who i still think is scummy, but isn't going to get lynched today, to zboson.
##Vote Z-boson
That's probably the safest route for scum. Why go ahead and dip yourself amongst a complete clusterfuck of people trying to figure shit out, when you can just sheep marv, gtfo, and feel all safe? He indicates he was present later on, when he says.
On November 15 2012 11:15 Crossfire99 wrote: Wow. Good job everyone who voted for him. I think that is first time I've ever seen a last minute vote switch work. I always thought they never worked. Good job. Time to go read his filter.
So yea, I'd be safest with lynching him tomorrow.
thrawn seems waaaaaay off his meta. He's made some long posts, trying to be all open and shit, but that doesn't give me a town read of him. Thrawn is usually much more investigative, and much more present as town. (See marv, I think this applies much better to thrawn than on me). I have to go soon, but I'll read him better when I get back.
Strongandbig is trying hard to be a grush57. That's pretty much it. Can't conclude shit from reading his filter. He's evidently aware of his meta as scum, and could very well be trying to do the opposite here, but imo he's beign completely useless.
marvellosity I still have to read his filter better. I didn't like the fact that he completely ignored my defense and asked me why I seemed so sure of everything, something he really didn't include in his original case. Don't want to lynch him day2 though. If he's scum, he's trying a loooot harder than on GSL.
On November 14 2012 05:14 Z-BosoN wrote: On iamp I hated the reason for which he voted on me, but I share marv's stance on how he's drawing out unnecessary attention. The only thing that actually bugs me is his interaction with BH. As a townie, if I agree with someone, the last thing I would be thinking is:
On November 14 2012 01:02 iamperfection wrote:
On November 14 2012 01:00 marvellosity wrote: Rock Band or Whose Line are recent town games of his.
do you know any of his scum games? the search function isn't helping me find all his games.
What debears mentions is his radical switch from >>Hunting BH<< to >>Agreeing with BH<<. Except that this post I quoted is immediately after his vote on me. Here, he still shows interest in finding out if BH is scum, someone he had just agreed with. That being said, he is being incredibly flip-floppy, which I'm finding extremely weird.
I don't think this is enough to peg him as scum though, I can imagine him as town being suspicious of everyone. I find BH's play to be much, much more appaling. I have only played one game with him, so I'm not super aware of his meta, but it is totally different than his Liquid City one. Here he has made one major case, a weak one at that, and established an unusally high amount of certainty on it, calling it "a masterpiece".
That being said, right now I'm interested in debears, Crossfire, and thrawn. Crossfire is rather obvious, he's not posted and is heading off towards a modkill/replacement. I'm not considering him a lynch choice until he actually decides to post.
debears has also raised my eyebrows in this start of the game. He's been extremely fluffy in the beggining, and no matter what his meta is, that's not pro-town. Also, I don't like the feel of his case against iamp. He's establishing himself on some of hapa's arguments, but does not deal with this:
On November 14 2012 02:53 marvellosity wrote: I don't understand why it's scum play.
1. Believes miller claim 2. Later decides he's scummy
The scum motivation is what? He wanted a case to jump on? Is that it?
Which to me feels like a natural step in accusing iamp of being scum. The most he's said is that he didn't agree with it, and I don't find that satisfactory at all given that he is pursuing a scumread. The only argument he added was "guilty conscience", to which I find very weak, as I don't find any motive for iamp to pursue something he doesn't think is strong.
Anyways, had debears actually voted based on that, I would have been much more suspicious. Right now he just has my eyebrows raised.
@debears I'd like you to expand a bit more on your read of iamp. 1) I get that you think he has bad reasoning for his switch. Why does this make him scummy? Bad reasoning =/= scummy unless it has scum motivation. What is the scum motivation of his actions? 2) Here you try to make this contrast:
1) He cares about how the town is viewing him 2) He doesn't believe his reasoning is that great for his vote -note the "well I think his actions speak louder". It's a weak statement. Not a strong one, (a strong one) which should be warranted when you change your read from town to scum in literally no time
I've mentioned this above, but I'd like you to answer it. Why would scum iamp establish a vote for which he himself believes is not based on good reasoning? I don't understand why you are finding this scummy. Interpret this as: me not buying it.
Now tell me that this is Town ZB and not scum ZB.
You'll also note his town play (GSL III) is totes different
Yes. His town play is very, very different in pretty much the exact way you mentioned in your case against him. There is no doubt in my mind that ZB is the last scum.
On November 18 2012 10:15 DarthPunk wrote: Nah. I want ZB to flip. Then if the game is still going we can check out that wall of text of his.
its not that long read it bro
I did read it. I still think he is scum. If he is town it holds more value for me than it does currently. It looks exactly how he thinks it would. A mechanism to escape from his lynch. It only becomes useful when he dies.
There is no one I want to lynch over ZB. And the only person I would consider is clarity.
The thing that I really don't like is his insistence on Z-BosoN meta. That was DarthPunk main point against Z-Boson, please check the conclusions for all his cases and you can find something like "this is not how town Z-B plays". And I really don't like this because Z-Bo had given a reasonable and honest explanation for the change in his meta and has given us elements to back it up.
These points show that DarthPunk was using double-standards and confirmation bias wrt Z-Boson. Part III --- The Comeback of the Scum
After Z-Boson flips, DarthPunk has been quiet for a while at the exception of a few posts. I found this one which could be the perfect post to set up a series of mislynches.
On November 19 2012 15:10 DarthPunk wrote: lynch Djo clarity and S&B and I doubt we could lose this.THis game is a pain in the arse to keep up with. Far too many posts most of them are useless and are just repeating what has already been said. I am going to look through the filters of those three players and see if I can come up with anything.
Before attacking me, he has misinterpreted and twisted my posts and accused me to push lynch baits. I want you to understand that the lynch bait is me, and that scum DP is pushing my mislynch right now. I know I look bad because of the setup speculation but I was honestly thinking that it would solve the game. And I hope you realize that it could have if debears had lived with green or red checks to share with us.
Anyway, I've given strong townreads on Kickstart and Iamp here in this post
At the moment, my strongest town reads are Iamp and Kickstart. Iamp looks the most concerned about this game with Clarity. He has presented good contributions and promotes a good town atmosphere for the discussion. He has shown interest and provided his insights on almost everything what was going on in the thread. Moreover, I don't feel that his posts are forced. He just looks genuinely town. He is the guy I would never want to lynch. Kickstart, even he doesn't participate enough at my taste, really gives me a first time town player feeling. I'm just coming out of my newbie games and they are full of games like him. If he was scum, I think he would have produced some Crossfire-like looking posts on day1 and that he would have already broke into pieces at this point. He needs to get free of the "I'm going to get suspicious if I post burden". I think that he could show clearly that he is town if he could post more freely. I'll give him "carte blanche" for his postings until we get at MYLO, if we have to come to this, which I doubt. I might be stupid to insist on this point, but I'm going to eat my hat if Kickstart has sniped debears. The last scum has to be an experienced player in my opinion.
so i was going though his filter again making a case but i ran into this post.
Scum i don't think would call out his own member that quickly would he?
im having a hard time getting past this especially when cross had little attention on him.
You should know this s not true. Cross was a weak player.No doubt they were worried about him in the QT. he would be an ideal bus.
Oh I am back BTW and catching up with the thread. Also everyone calline out my inactivity GTFO. I have a 10 page filter day two. I have pushed my scum reads. Am I playing badly? Sure I am. I have zero motivation right now. It feels like I am doing an assignment. But here I am reading the thread when I have no inclination to do so.
There are some spammers in this game who have fucking mass posted with little fucking content of value. (clarity) Who make this game a chore to read.
I have a strong town read on S&B he is a mislynch. I want to lynch clarity or DJO.
I am total lynch bait right now. Anyone pushing a lynch on me is fucking suspicious. Enter DJo. Subtly wanting to push me and fucking Iamp. like seriously pushing the inactives who he should have a damn town read on??
anyway. Now I am back reading the thread. Heaps of shit is pissing me off which is motivating me in a way. so that is good I guess.
Top Scum reads.
Clarity, Djo.
Cool story bro... I have some doubts about you and they grow larger when you are clearly twisting what I have said. I doubt you can show that I want to push iamp because that it simply a lie.
Sup Scumzor. I can find the post or did I misread the part where you asked BH to comment on both Iamp and myself after heavily implying you had altered your town read on me?
I can guarentee that if he had said he thought we were scummy you would have jumped all over us.
LOL. That you were feeling out a wagon on lynch-bait was so fucking transparent dude. And as I am reading through your filter there is very little that suggests TOWN to me.
On November 20 2012 21:53 Clarity_nl wrote: I was the one who asked him what he thought of kickstart, and now you're saying it's bad he made a post on kickstart?
You say he's wishy washy, but there is a fucking conclusion at the end of that post. He points out all his observations and makes a conclusion.
It was wishy washy. But I don't really care what you think.
The conclusion was that he was a newbie. And that was not difficult to see for anyone. Some conclusion right there.
It is worse for him that you asked him to make that post because that was his only real analysis or contribution on anything even remotely consisting of scum hunting. Without that he has done none whatsoever.
That's a lie. I have clearly stated what was my read on him after my analysis. Newbie town it is.
Ok I must have misread. regardless, the way in which you constructed that post was wishy-washy. here is why he might be town
Here is why he could be scum
I think he is newbie town.
Which for all intents and purposes leaves a caveat, as newbie town is a lot closer to scummy than a 'Strong' town read.
Either way he is not reading the thread properly or he wants to discredit me while my attention is over him. Our exchanges about Kickstart clearly showed that he is twisting my stance about Kickstart, which has been clear since the beginning. Conclusion Bussing Hapa
Z-Bo is his top scumread but chose to lynch who Z-Bo is voting because it's obviously WIFOM
Last minute lynch of Hapa when he said that he would not lynch him
Takes all the town credit and accuses BH and Z-Bo (town and town) of bussing
Z-Boson lynch
Double standards between Z-Bo and BH
No sympathy with Z-Bo, which had been also pushed a lynch at the end of D1
The core of the cases was the meta part, which Z-Bo had a reasonable defense for
Shows no doubt about the fact that Z-Bo is going to flip scum
The Comeback
Fairly inactive even after the end of the Acme game
Shows no doubt about the fact that I am scum
Presents himself as a lynch bait before any case made against him
Misinterpreting my posts and taking advantage of the fact that I was not scumhunting
##Unvote ##Vote DartPunk
Why must I be lynched today if we want to win? We can still lynch scum If S&B flips green.
On November 22 2012 17:28 Djodref wrote: @BH : I see... I think that S&B would have been lynched today no matter what. So I declare that I managed to go into MYLO ^^ Remember that France never concedes !
I'm reading the obsQT to see how it was so obvious that I was scum
Didn't you figure it out while I was yelling why at you?
On November 22 2012 17:28 Djodref wrote: @BH : I see... I think that S&B would have been lynched today no matter what. So I declare that I managed to go into MYLO ^^ Remember that France never concedes !
I'm reading the obsQT to see how it was so obvious that I was scum
Didn't you figure it out while I was yelling why at you?
My positions on Clarity and S&B were terribad, I admit it. Regarding the lack of scumhunting, I don't know, I was really liking my story about this guy who wants to solve the game with logic and setup only. I would have appreciated debears to out himself at the end of N2.
The lack of scum hunting was the MAJOR REASON I was so sure.
On November 22 2012 22:21 Hopeless1der wrote: btw djo, I was coming for you today and I was prepared to back DP all the way. The perfect one and I would have likely ended up at each others throats because he seemed to really want SnB. Great attempt in a horrible situation. GG everyone.
On November 23 2012 08:04 Blazinghand wrote: Yeah it's a lazy mindset, but that's my mindset now looking back on it. At the time, I thought ZB was scum and I lynched him. It was a mistake, but in retrospect, we weren't gonna lose anyways.
But you came dangerously dangerously close to that. Djo could actually have pulled it off.
Yeah. But he would have had to fight me tooth and nail for a week to do so. I think you of all people know how uninviting a prospect that can be.
That being said. I think I should be banned or something. It is clearly against the rules to win by making others not want to play. And I'm pretty sure that is what happened here.
Also, regarding your lynch, stop being so butthurt about it. It is your job to make yourself look too townie to lynch also. The responsibility is not soley on us to see how 'obviously' town you were. YOu need to endeavour to make yourself look townie as possible so it becomes impossible to lynch you.
That being said, Whilst I understand keir's viewpoint and thought about that, what gonzaw says is true and is exactly what I would have done as scum. Which is the only point of reference I have. Add to that that both marv and Blazinghand thought you were scum at different points of the game and that you, like me, almost got mislynched day one. There is some work that needs to be done on your town game to stop you getting mislynched.
Also anyone saying that a miller claim should be treated in the same way as a miller claim is wrong. If people disagree I would love to hear their reasoning.
@clarity.
I felt your play was based on emotion rather than anything substantial. Especially with your reads on myself and djo.
also you need to work on posting less IMO. 100 pages on night one is ridiculous for a mini IMO. Many people in the obs qt complained about it.
The amount of content generated was unnecessary and hurt town IMO as it was very difficult to find anything important in the mess.
Others may have different thoughts but I think the mass posting hurt town.
hmm
If I have any other thoughts I'll jot them down.
Also I am actually burnt out BH. Don;t know why I would lie about it. I was actually going to take a break after ACME but keir asked me to join this and I <3 keir so what could I do.
On November 23 2012 08:13 Blazinghand wrote: But.. town WAS already doing great. Like, that's a fact. You're welcome to dispute that fact, but it was true. In any case, Aside from me not buying your defense, what other lazy things did I do that I should avoid in the future?
we're talking post 1st cycle, right? ^_^
Yeah read my comments on the last page or two. My gf's grandmother died etc
ah. sorry to hear it.
I'm most curious how you went from protecting DP over me night 1 to not being sure he was town later.
Like, nothing significant had changed. DP pretty much had to be town because of the first cycle.
DP wasn't reading the thread-- I had him as my least townie town read for that. Given that Hopeless was confirmed town and Kickstart and Iamp were both screamingly town, I think it's reasonable that DP was my least sure town read when I died.
WTF I was reading the thread. I just kept getting stuff wrong because It starts all blending together after a while. I 100% read through the thread at least once and some parts multiple times. Also whenever I posted it was quite late so I made mistakes.
On November 23 2012 08:22 Blazinghand wrote: Also I was just personally expressing distaste for DP, not that he should be lynched. And I did say Djoref was scummier. And he did concede as a result.
In any case I guess I should have had a stronger townread on DP but he basically didn't read the thread for a couple of days so it weakened. Djoref and SnB were still scummier for wasting all our time setup speculating so they both needed to be lynched.
Is that distaste because I was too aggressive or because I was lazy at for a couple of days?
On November 23 2012 08:04 Blazinghand wrote: Yeah it's a lazy mindset, but that's my mindset now looking back on it. At the time, I thought ZB was scum and I lynched him. It was a mistake, but in retrospect, we weren't gonna lose anyways.
But you came dangerously dangerously close to that. Djo could actually have pulled it off.
Yeah. But he would have had to fight me tooth and nail for a week to do so. I think you of all people know how uninviting a prospect that can be.
That being said. I think I should be banned or something. It is clearly against the rules to win by making others not want to play. And I'm pretty sure that is what happened here.
Also, regarding your lynch, stop being so butthurt about it. It is your job to make yourself look too townie to lynch also. The responsibility is not soley on us to see how 'obviously' town you were. YOu need to endeavour to make yourself look townie as possible so it becomes impossible to lynch you.
That being said, Whilst I understand keir's viewpoint and thought about that, what gonzaw says is true and is exactly what I would have done as scum. Which is the only point of reference I have. Add to that that both marv and Blazinghand thought you were scum at different points of the game and that you, like me, almost got mislynched day one. There is some work that needs to be done on your town game to stop you getting mislynched.
Also anyone saying that a miller claim should be treated in the same way as a miller claim is wrong. If people disagree I would love to hear their reasoning.
@clarity.
I felt your play was based on emotion rather than anything substantial. Especially with your reads on myself and djo.
also you need to work on posting less IMO. 100 pages on night one is ridiculous for a mini IMO. Many people in the obs qt complained about it.
The amount of content generated was unnecessary and hurt town IMO as it was very difficult to find anything important in the mess.
Others may have different thoughts but I think the mass posting hurt town.
hmm
If I have any other thoughts I'll jot them down.
Also I am actually burnt out BH. Don;t know why I would lie about it. I was actually going to take a break after ACME but keir asked me to join this and I <3 keir so what could I do.
That's funny coming from someone who makes an OMGUS case on me because I made a case on him, and posted it at a really weird time. I'm also fairly certain I'm not the only one to blame for the size of this game.
That said, yes I might have overdone it with my posting. You need to realize that D2 people were giving up though, so I was trying to keep town talking, but it ended up being me and djo a lot.
WTF?!? OMGUS lol? I made a case against you day one. I VOTED for you before you even mentioned me, I thought you were scummy day one. It was not OMGUS at all...
Also if you are worried about peoples contributions, drowning out everything else in useless spam is not the way to go about it. And shutting down people who actually try to get back in the game because you don;t like what they have to say is not the way either.
You are right though. I think BH spammed to much and Djo did too for obvious reasons.
On November 23 2012 08:32 Dandel Ion wrote: Yo, BH, if you need pointers on how to deal with ppl after somebody they're close to died/got sick/.. , that's something I have experience in I kid. + Show Spoiler +
About the being able to give pointers part. Experience, I do have.
DP don't be silly. Maybe you're not nice to people, but really, who fucking cares.
The parts you need to work on are things like this:
Also anyone saying that a miller claim should be treated in the same way as a miller claim is wrong. If people disagree I would love to hear their reasoning.
Like, wtf is wrong with you?!?!?
Ugh I meant JK same as miller. Yeah I make typos like that a lot. generally because it is very early very late or I am quickly posting in the midst of doing other things. I should probably proof read my posts.
On November 23 2012 08:32 Blazinghand wrote: But definitely not because you were aggressive, aggressive DP is town dP
He's aggressive as both alignments. But his play as town is very different as town and as scum in some way I'll leave marv to explain
And give away my secrets?!
There was one other thing - although debears got bizarrely sniped, he wasn't checking Djodref that night, when he should have been. Check the replacement almost always, especially if he's replacing some lurker who's on the confirmed, flipped town's "lynch list"
On November 23 2012 08:34 Blazinghand wrote: Man Z-B I dunno you still got lynched dude
I got lynched because there were three people not reading/trying and just decided to sheep marv. I literally laughed when I saw debears use hapa's "gg-yo" post as an argument against me. How no one found that messed up is also an indicator of how people weren't reading. How no one read my case on thrawn properly is also a powerful indicator.
I read and dismissed your arguments also. I was very sure you were scum, and I think this tirade is mixed heavily with the bias and anger at being 'wronged'
On November 23 2012 08:40 Z-BosoN wrote: I disagree heavily with not lynching replacements. If the guy he was replacing was hella scummy, and in 48 hours you manage to act scummily and provide zero to none reads, that's more information than you have on whoever you lynched on day one.
Yes, Djodref played scummy during D2, but you can't hold a guy accountable for the actions of the guy he replaced in for. I gave him 72 hours, then called him scum.
This is a liberal interpretation of events. You called him scummier than me. and didn't really help me get a lynch on him as you should have if you were certain like I was.
On November 23 2012 08:40 Z-BosoN wrote: I disagree heavily with not lynching replacements. If the guy he was replacing was hella scummy, and in 48 hours you manage to act scummily and provide zero to none reads, that's more information than you have on whoever you lynched on day one.
Yes, Djodref played scummy during D2, but you can't hold a guy accountable for the actions of the guy he replaced in for. I gave him 72 hours, then called him scum.
This is a liberal interpretation of events. You called him scummier than me. and didn't really help me get a lynch on him as you should have if you were certain like I was.
SnB was the scummiest, he was priority 1
I disagree. But fair enough.
Now marv just needs to tell me my meta tell so I can change it.
On November 23 2012 08:40 Z-BosoN wrote: I disagree heavily with not lynching replacements. If the guy he was replacing was hella scummy, and in 48 hours you manage to act scummily and provide zero to none reads, that's more information than you have on whoever you lynched on day one.
Yes, Djodref played scummy during D2, but you can't hold a guy accountable for the actions of the guy he replaced in for. I gave him 72 hours, then called him scum.
This is a liberal interpretation of events. You called him scummier than me. and didn't really help me get a lynch on him as you should have if you were certain like I was.
SnB was the scummiest, he was priority 1
I disagree. But fair enough.
Now marv just needs to tell me my meta tell so I can change it.
Scum DP would have never given a town read on S&B when he was the most popular mislynch option just to push a mislynch on someone like Djo :p
Huh. What about the town read I gave to Prom when he was the most popular mislynch option in ACME?
Like I am not saying you are wrong. I just want to know the specific difference.
On November 23 2012 08:40 Z-BosoN wrote: I disagree heavily with not lynching replacements. If the guy he was replacing was hella scummy, and in 48 hours you manage to act scummily and provide zero to none reads, that's more information than you have on whoever you lynched on day one.
Yes, Djodref played scummy during D2, but you can't hold a guy accountable for the actions of the guy he replaced in for. I gave him 72 hours, then called him scum.
This is a liberal interpretation of events. You called him scummier than me. and didn't really help me get a lynch on him as you should have if you were certain like I was.
SnB was the scummiest, he was priority 1
I disagree. But fair enough.
Now marv just needs to tell me my meta tell so I can change it.
you will roll town most of the time (yes, i know you've been a bit unlucky with scum rolls) so having someone recognise you as town is pretty useful.
Yes but if I can emulate it I can do it as both alignments and then everyone will know I am town regardless of alignment. Right?
On November 23 2012 09:33 Keirathi wrote: Don't you remember what you said to me after LC when I said "meh, for all the good it did, I should have just kept my meta read [of you, proving kush was town] to myself?"
You said you were glad I shared because you wanted the opportunity to improve your own game. You should extend the same courtesy to DP, IMO!
On November 23 2012 12:47 Keirathi wrote: I believe I've explained how I nailed you as scum in both of your last two scum games, didn't I?
In both games, you had a well thought out opinion that set you apart from the crowd, then backed off that opinion to push an easy target when it was convenient.
In LC, you were the first person to pressure me at all. You had a super strong, well reasoned case about why I was scum that 100% could have gotten me lynched if you stuck to it. Instead of fighting for it, though, you backed off to push kush once he started getting pressured because it was "easier".
ACME was basically the same. You gave a well-reasoned town read on kush, then when no one paid attention to it and started talking about lynching kush, you were all too happy to join in the wagon on him, despite the fact that he was still acting the same way you called him town for.
However, I can't actually say how that's different from your town play, because I'm pretty unfamiliar with reading you and deciding that you're town. I think I would need to obs a game where you're town to notice if you actually do any of those things and see if my read is right. This game doesn't count, since I already knew your alignment beforehand.
yeah thanks kei I'll work on that. Or just do it a bunch as town.
On November 23 2012 12:47 Keirathi wrote: I believe I've explained how I nailed you as scum in both of your last two scum games, didn't I?
In both games, you had a well thought out opinion that set you apart from the crowd, then backed off that opinion to push an easy target when it was convenient.
In LC, you were the first person to pressure me at all. You had a super strong, well reasoned case about why I was scum that 100% could have gotten me lynched if you stuck to it. Instead of fighting for it, though, you backed off to push kush once he started getting pressured because it was "easier".
ACME was basically the same. You gave a well-reasoned town read on kush, then when no one paid attention to it and started talking about lynching kush, you were all too happy to join in the wagon on him, despite the fact that he was still acting the same way you called him town for.
However, I can't actually say how that's different from your town play, because I'm pretty unfamiliar with reading you and deciding that you're town. I think I would need to obs a game where you're town to notice if you actually do any of those things and see if my read is right. This game doesn't count, since I already knew your alignment beforehand.
yeah thanks kei I'll work on that. Or just do it a bunch as town.
Doing it a bunch as town is a terrible strategy
Yeah but it serves the purpose of obfuscating my meta.
On November 23 2012 12:47 Keirathi wrote: I believe I've explained how I nailed you as scum in both of your last two scum games, didn't I?
In both games, you had a well thought out opinion that set you apart from the crowd, then backed off that opinion to push an easy target when it was convenient.
In LC, you were the first person to pressure me at all. You had a super strong, well reasoned case about why I was scum that 100% could have gotten me lynched if you stuck to it. Instead of fighting for it, though, you backed off to push kush once he started getting pressured because it was "easier".
ACME was basically the same. You gave a well-reasoned town read on kush, then when no one paid attention to it and started talking about lynching kush, you were all too happy to join in the wagon on him, despite the fact that he was still acting the same way you called him town for.
However, I can't actually say how that's different from your town play, because I'm pretty unfamiliar with reading you and deciding that you're town. I think I would need to obs a game where you're town to notice if you actually do any of those things and see if my read is right. This game doesn't count, since I already knew your alignment beforehand.
yeah thanks kei I'll work on that. Or just do it a bunch as town.
Doing it a bunch as town is a terrible strategy
Yeah but it serves the purpose of obfuscating my meta.
It also serves the purpose of not being good for town. When you're town: Play to your win con, not your meta. Your town play should affect your scum play, not the other way around.
On November 23 2012 12:47 Keirathi wrote: I believe I've explained how I nailed you as scum in both of your last two scum games, didn't I?
In both games, you had a well thought out opinion that set you apart from the crowd, then backed off that opinion to push an easy target when it was convenient.
In LC, you were the first person to pressure me at all. You had a super strong, well reasoned case about why I was scum that 100% could have gotten me lynched if you stuck to it. Instead of fighting for it, though, you backed off to push kush once he started getting pressured because it was "easier".
ACME was basically the same. You gave a well-reasoned town read on kush, then when no one paid attention to it and started talking about lynching kush, you were all too happy to join in the wagon on him, despite the fact that he was still acting the same way you called him town for.
However, I can't actually say how that's different from your town play, because I'm pretty unfamiliar with reading you and deciding that you're town. I think I would need to obs a game where you're town to notice if you actually do any of those things and see if my read is right. This game doesn't count, since I already knew your alignment beforehand.
yeah thanks kei I'll work on that. Or just do it a bunch as town.
Doing it a bunch as town is a terrible strategy
Yeah but it serves the purpose of obfuscating my meta.
It also serves the purpose of not being good for town. When you're town: Play to your win con, not your meta. Your town play should affect your scum play, not the other way around.
ZZZ I wasn't being serious.
@DarthPunk
Did you check my filter in the Looney Game or not ? I'm curious to know if you found similar patterns between these two games ? I was also a very lonely scum in that game :S
Nope. It wasn't necessary. I was convinced solely by your play in this game.
I don't see the problem with it to be honest. I mean it is not the same as Screen Shotting your role PM at all. He was away from the thread. People questioned if this was the case. He provided evidence. I certainly don't think it is cheating.
On November 28 2012 11:06 Blazinghand wrote: It's certainly not against the rules, but it's playing a game that's not mafia. Mentioning out-of-game things in game as excuses for activity is unsportsmanlike. I don't want to play a game that's about seeing if someone's excuse is real or not by trying to figure out if it's photo-shopped or it makes sense. That game isn't mafia, and it isn't what mafia should be about.
If people don't want to here excuses about 'inactivity' maybe it shouldn't be brought up so damn often.
I have been accused of being inactive in almost every game I have played. Often it is because of my timezone or other IRL commitments. Should I not explain why I am not in the thread whenever people call me out for it?
On November 28 2012 11:16 Blazinghand wrote: I don't think saying "I'm gonna be gone for a day" is great but at least it's something that can be analyzed and fit into a read with someone's actions. I personally ignore such statements because they are as easily made by town as by scum-- it's null. It doesn't offend me, it's just not helpful.
I think once people start photographing plane tickets and taking screenshots of dota games, though, they've crossed the line. It may not be against the rules but I find it very distasteful.
yeah, i just don't agree with this. like, it's supposed to be null, i'm just making a statement of fact. Obviously you can take inactivity/excuses into a larger read, but overall I much prefer warning the thread of my absences. I've never lied about my absences as either alignment and I never will.
That is also true of me and probably the majority.