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On November 20 2012 21:02 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote:
Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts.
I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have.
MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play.
Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you.
##Vote S&B Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 03:25 Djodref wrote:
On a personal note, I've like S&B defense during D2, maybe because I'm more emotional than rational, so I'm not totally sure of S&B being the last scum yet even if he is the right person to lynch at the moment. I'm very curious to see what are going to be his next contributions.
I'll accept people getting lazy if they can provide me with a case that totally proves that S&B is the last scum.
DOES ANYONE HAVE A BETTER LYNCH THAN S&B TO PROPOSE FOR TODAY ??
Awfully unsure for a guy who's voting to lynch the dude
True enough, I'm only sure of Hopeless and you being confirmed at that point.
Iamp and Kickstart still as top town read. Let me check Clarity and I'll come back to you...
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On November 20 2012 21:06 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 20:58 Blazinghand wrote:
djodref you think anyone wants to actually look at those posts full of letters and algebra and stuff? especially a busy guy like DP? Really what it comes down to is given the flips and claims, there are 2 blues left alive, and they are me and hopeless1. lol, okay, I'm going to sum up everything for him. First things first, you have to check this internet page about C9++, it is a very interesting read, believe. Second, given the claims and the flips and the lack of night actions at the exception of the mafia kills and BH being RBed, our setup is defined by the following set of letters, MVCCDTT, which gives us a 100% certainty of Hopeless being Luigi and BH being Yoshi. I'm done with talking now, I'll check Clarity's filter.
LOL you think I haven't read that page? The thing is I don't care about set up speculation. I would not want to lynch BH with no counter claim regardless.
It's great you are done with talking. But you are not BH and if you think you can get away without telling me exactly why S&B is scum you are going to be sorely disappointed.
You may think I am a bad player. and that is fine. I am comparatively to others. But I am not someone who you can roll over very easily. I have only lost one game of mafia in my 8 games. This will NOT be my second.
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On November 20 2012 21:11 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 21:02 Blazinghand wrote:On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote:
Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts.
I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have.
MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play.
Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you.
##Vote S&B On November 20 2012 03:25 Djodref wrote:
On a personal note, I've like S&B defense during D2, maybe because I'm more emotional than rational, so I'm not totally sure of S&B being the last scum yet even if he is the right person to lynch at the moment. I'm very curious to see what are going to be his next contributions.
I'll accept people getting lazy if they can provide me with a case that totally proves that S&B is the last scum.
DOES ANYONE HAVE A BETTER LYNCH THAN S&B TO PROPOSE FOR TODAY ??
Awfully unsure for a guy who's voting to lynch the dude True enough, I'm only sure of Hopeless and you being confirmed at that point. Iamp and Kickstart still as top town read. Let me check Clarity and I'll come back to you...
Scum. Can only give town reads and those have little substance.
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On November 20 2012 21:09 Blazinghand wrote:
btw i have no idea how thrawn feels about either of you i'm just playin homie
We got off to a rough start. But it is water under the bridge. 
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
if you consider talking to each other over halfway through D3 a start
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On November 20 2012 20:59 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 20:57 DarthPunk wrote:On November 20 2012 20:48 Blazinghand wrote:On November 20 2012 20:47 DarthPunk wrote:On November 20 2012 20:37 Djodref wrote:On November 20 2012 20:29 DarthPunk wrote:On November 20 2012 20:20 Djodref wrote:On November 20 2012 19:56 DarthPunk wrote:You should know this s not true. Cross was a weak player.No doubt they were worried about him in the QT. he would be an ideal bus. Oh I am back BTW and catching up with the thread. Also everyone calline out my inactivity GTFO. I have a 10 page filter day two. I have pushed my scum reads. Am I playing badly? Sure I am. I have zero motivation right now. It feels like I am doing an assignment. But here I am reading the thread when I have no inclination to do so. There are some spammers in this game who have fucking mass posted with little fucking content of value. (clarity) Who make this game a chore to read. I have a strong town read on S&B he is a mislynch. I want to lynch clarity or DJO. I am total lynch bait right now. Anyone pushing a lynch on me is fucking suspicious. Enter DJo. Subtly wanting to push me and fucking Iamp. like seriously pushing the inactives who he should have a damn town read on?? anyway. Now I am back reading the thread. Heaps of shit is pissing me off which is motivating me in a way. so that is good I guess. Top Scum reads. Clarity, Djo. Cool story bro... I have some doubts about you and they grow larger when you are clearly twisting what I have said. I doubt you can show that I want to push iamp because that it simply a lie. Sup Scumzor. I can find the post or did I misread the part where you asked BH to comment on both Iamp and myself after heavily implying you had altered your town read on me? I can guarentee that if he had said he thought we were scummy you would have jumped all over us. LOL. That you were feeling out a wagon on lynch-bait was so fucking transparent dude. And as I am reading through your filter there is very little that suggests TOWN to me. @ DarthpunkI'm wary about you, not about iamp. I just wanted to know if I was on the right tracks for thinking that way. BH is now confirmed and provides some good advices sometimes. I think you are really over reacting when you refer to iamp and you as lynchbaits. I was very clear that I would never lynch iamp nor Kickstart. You are misinterpreting what I have said or you are full of confirmation bias. You are full of shit. ROFL. What you are saying is that you would like to push a lynch on me though? This is a legit question actually. DJO. Take a position and answer this question. Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 20:52 Djodref wrote:On November 20 2012 20:47 DarthPunk wrote:On November 20 2012 20:37 Djodref wrote:On November 20 2012 20:29 DarthPunk wrote:On November 20 2012 20:20 Djodref wrote:On November 20 2012 19:56 DarthPunk wrote:You should know this s not true. Cross was a weak player.No doubt they were worried about him in the QT. he would be an ideal bus. Oh I am back BTW and catching up with the thread. Also everyone calline out my inactivity GTFO. I have a 10 page filter day two. I have pushed my scum reads. Am I playing badly? Sure I am. I have zero motivation right now. It feels like I am doing an assignment. But here I am reading the thread when I have no inclination to do so. There are some spammers in this game who have fucking mass posted with little fucking content of value. (clarity) Who make this game a chore to read. I have a strong town read on S&B he is a mislynch. I want to lynch clarity or DJO. I am total lynch bait right now. Anyone pushing a lynch on me is fucking suspicious. Enter DJo. Subtly wanting to push me and fucking Iamp. like seriously pushing the inactives who he should have a damn town read on?? anyway. Now I am back reading the thread. Heaps of shit is pissing me off which is motivating me in a way. so that is good I guess. Top Scum reads. Clarity, Djo. Cool story bro... I have some doubts about you and they grow larger when you are clearly twisting what I have said. I doubt you can show that I want to push iamp because that it simply a lie. Sup Scumzor. I can find the post or did I misread the part where you asked BH to comment on both Iamp and myself after heavily implying you had altered your town read on me? I can guarentee that if he had said he thought we were scummy you would have jumped all over us. LOL. That you were feeling out a wagon on lynch-bait was so fucking transparent dude. And as I am reading through your filter there is very little that suggests TOWN to me. @ DarthpunkI'm wary about you, not about iamp. I just wanted to know if I was on the right tracks for thinking that way. BH is now confirmed and provides some good advices sometimes. I think you are really over reacting when you refer to iamp and you as lynchbaits. I was very clear that I would never lynch iamp nor Kickstart. You are misinterpreting what I have said or you are full of confirmation bias. You are full of shit. ROFL. What you are saying is that you would like to push a lynch on me though? Today, absolutely not. Honestly, I really doubt that we need to ever lynch you to finish the game. I've listed the strong town tells you have in your favor. I was just worried about your activity and your lynch of Z-Boson. Already did. I want to lynch S&B today by the way.
On November 20 2012 21:11 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 21:02 Blazinghand wrote:On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote:
Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts.
I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have.
MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play.
Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you.
##Vote S&B On November 20 2012 03:25 Djodref wrote:
On a personal note, I've like S&B defense during D2, maybe because I'm more emotional than rational, so I'm not totally sure of S&B being the last scum yet even if he is the right person to lynch at the moment. I'm very curious to see what are going to be his next contributions.
I'll accept people getting lazy if they can provide me with a case that totally proves that S&B is the last scum.
DOES ANYONE HAVE A BETTER LYNCH THAN S&B TO PROPOSE FOR TODAY ??
Awfully unsure for a guy who's voting to lynch the dude True enough, I'm only sure of Hopeless and you being confirmed at that point. Iamp and Kickstart still as top town read. Let me check Clarity and I'll come back to you...
In the space of 5 minutes.
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Djo. Explain in your own words why clarity and Perfection are town reads.
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On November 20 2012 21:12 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 21:06 Djodref wrote:On November 20 2012 20:58 Blazinghand wrote:
djodref you think anyone wants to actually look at those posts full of letters and algebra and stuff? especially a busy guy like DP? Really what it comes down to is given the flips and claims, there are 2 blues left alive, and they are me and hopeless1. lol, okay, I'm going to sum up everything for him. First things first, you have to check this internet page about C9++, it is a very interesting read, believe. Second, given the claims and the flips and the lack of night actions at the exception of the mafia kills and BH being RBed, our setup is defined by the following set of letters, MVCCDTT, which gives us a 100% certainty of Hopeless being Luigi and BH being Yoshi. I'm done with talking now, I'll check Clarity's filter. LOL you think I haven't read that page? The thing is I don't care about set up speculation. I would not want to lynch BH with no counter claim regardless. It's great you are done with talking. But you are not BH and if you think you can get away without telling me exactly why S&B is scum you are going to be sorely disappointed. You may think I am a bad player. and that is fine. I am comparatively to others. But I am not someone who you can roll over very easily. I have only lost one game of mafia in my 8 games. This will NOT be my second.
I'm not getting away, I have a lot of time ahead of me tonight and I'll give you satisfaction.
I'm sorry if you felt that I was calling you a bad player, it was not my intention and I don't see where you got that. I feel that you are angry at me for some reason and I don't see exactly why.
I didn't realize that you surely didn't spend the time I've spent speculating on the setup. So I gave you the main points, that is all
Take my word for it, Hopeless and BH are 100% confirmed.
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On November 20 2012 21:20 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 21:12 DarthPunk wrote:On November 20 2012 21:06 Djodref wrote:On November 20 2012 20:58 Blazinghand wrote:
djodref you think anyone wants to actually look at those posts full of letters and algebra and stuff? especially a busy guy like DP? Really what it comes down to is given the flips and claims, there are 2 blues left alive, and they are me and hopeless1. lol, okay, I'm going to sum up everything for him. First things first, you have to check this internet page about C9++, it is a very interesting read, believe. Second, given the claims and the flips and the lack of night actions at the exception of the mafia kills and BH being RBed, our setup is defined by the following set of letters, MVCCDTT, which gives us a 100% certainty of Hopeless being Luigi and BH being Yoshi. I'm done with talking now, I'll check Clarity's filter. LOL you think I haven't read that page? The thing is I don't care about set up speculation. I would not want to lynch BH with no counter claim regardless. It's great you are done with talking. But you are not BH and if you think you can get away without telling me exactly why S&B is scum you are going to be sorely disappointed. You may think I am a bad player. and that is fine. I am comparatively to others. But I am not someone who you can roll over very easily. I have only lost one game of mafia in my 8 games. This will NOT be my second. I'm not getting away, I have a lot of time ahead of me tonight and I'll give you satisfaction. I'm sorry if you felt that I was calling you a bad player, it was not my intention and I don't see where you got that. I feel that you are angry at me for some reason and I don't see exactly why. I didn't realize that you surely didn't spend the time I've spent speculating on the setup. So I gave you the main points, that is all Take my word for it, Hopeless and BH are 100% confirmed.
I'm not mad. I just want you to die. Cause you are scum. Nothing personal.
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On November 20 2012 21:20 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 21:12 DarthPunk wrote:On November 20 2012 21:06 Djodref wrote:On November 20 2012 20:58 Blazinghand wrote:
djodref you think anyone wants to actually look at those posts full of letters and algebra and stuff? especially a busy guy like DP? Really what it comes down to is given the flips and claims, there are 2 blues left alive, and they are me and hopeless1. lol, okay, I'm going to sum up everything for him. First things first, you have to check this internet page about C9++, it is a very interesting read, believe. Second, given the claims and the flips and the lack of night actions at the exception of the mafia kills and BH being RBed, our setup is defined by the following set of letters, MVCCDTT, which gives us a 100% certainty of Hopeless being Luigi and BH being Yoshi. I'm done with talking now, I'll check Clarity's filter. LOL you think I haven't read that page? The thing is I don't care about set up speculation. I would not want to lynch BH with no counter claim regardless. It's great you are done with talking. But you are not BH and if you think you can get away without telling me exactly why S&B is scum you are going to be sorely disappointed. You may think I am a bad player. and that is fine. I am comparatively to others. But I am not someone who you can roll over very easily. I have only lost one game of mafia in my 8 games. This will NOT be my second. I'm not getting away, I have a lot of time ahead of me tonight and I'll give you satisfaction. I'm sorry if you felt that I was calling you a bad player, it was not my intention and I don't see where you got that. I feel that you are angry at me for some reason and I don't see exactly why. I didn't realize that you surely didn't spend the time I've spent speculating on the setup. So I gave you the main points, that is all Take my word for it, Hopeless and BH are 100% confirmed.
Don't go look at his filter to find a reason for your vote. If your vote is on him right now, you have a reason right now. Tell me what the current reason for your vote on S&B is.
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On November 20 2012 21:18 DarthPunk wrote:
Djo. Explain in your own words why clarity and Perfection are town reads.
Kickstart and iamperfection. Get off my back and start reading the thread more carefully.
Remove you confirmation bias goggles by the way...
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
yeah djodref you tell him
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My vote is on S&B because he was we have both been speculating the setup and I went after BH when he should have realized that he was confirmed town around the beginning of D3.
He doesn't seem to really care about this game. He is not present enough in the thread, especially at a crucial moments like the time he got almost lynched.
His latest contribution is the result of of the search of every scummy thing in Clarity's filter in my eyes, not a real assessment of Clarity's alignment.
I know I shouldn't say that, but he is a liability given his trolly play during D1, and we would have to lynch if he was among us in MYLO or LYLO, so better sooner than later.
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On November 20 2012 21:25 Blazinghand wrote:
yeah djodref you tell him
Was I really jumping at everything you said like this ?
It's quite annoying...
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On November 20 2012 21:12 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 21:06 Djodref wrote:On November 20 2012 20:58 Blazinghand wrote:
djodref you think anyone wants to actually look at those posts full of letters and algebra and stuff? especially a busy guy like DP? Really what it comes down to is given the flips and claims, there are 2 blues left alive, and they are me and hopeless1. lol, okay, I'm going to sum up everything for him. First things first, you have to check this internet page about C9++, it is a very interesting read, believe. Second, given the claims and the flips and the lack of night actions at the exception of the mafia kills and BH being RBed, our setup is defined by the following set of letters, MVCCDTT, which gives us a 100% certainty of Hopeless being Luigi and BH being Yoshi. I'm done with talking now, I'll check Clarity's filter. LOL you think I haven't read that page? The thing is I don't care about set up speculation. I would not want to lynch BH with no counter claim regardless. It's great you are done with talking. But you are not BH and if you think you can get away without telling me exactly why S&B is scum you are going to be sorely disappointed. You may think I am a bad player. and that is fine. I am comparatively to others. But I am not someone who you can roll over very easily. I have only lost one game of mafia in my 8 games. This will NOT be my second.
@ DarthPunk
Maybe you should take care of setup speculation. You would have understood that lynching the uncontested miller was as bad as lynching the uncontested jailkeeper.
Here, I'm saying that we were both bad 
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DJO
On November 16 2012 22:00 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2012 13:05 Z-BosoN wrote:
Djodref, I want to hear your every thought.
First off, why are you voting bh? I´m not sure about your reasoning. Do you agree with my post on the likelihood of scum being on my wagon? What do you make of that assessment?
Also, besides blazinghand, who else would you say is scum, and why? Ok, I think it is a good time now to share my thoughts. Regarding my BH vote, I think that it is important for everyone to realize that it is possible for him to be scum. I don't want people to discard a BH lynch because his jailkeeper claim is undisputed and because he lynched Hapahauli. At least, I want him to be considered as a lynch candidate, hence my vote. Now I understand that it's unlikely that we lynch BH today but I'll keep on promoting his lynch. We have already 2 confirmed scum on your wagon when you have 8 votes 5 minutes before lynch time. If they wanted to push a mislynch on you, there was no need of a third scum. It's true that nobody switched back to you when people started to vote Hapa but some people were not present and/or not able to react in time. Regarding the players on the Hapa wagon, I don't see why they should be automatically town as BH and debears seem to think. Hapa lynch was unlikely to happen when you look at the situation 5 minutes before the lynch and it could have been a smart for a scum player move to jump on the Hapa wagon at this point (because I think that Z-bo would have flipped town) and to cast a distance vote on Bowser, if you were thinking that this wagon was going to fail anyway (as it should have been, imho). Now here are my thoughts on the remaining players BlazinghandsTop Scumread I want the town to consider at least as a lynch candidate for today. S&BScumread Given his D1/N1 play, I'm not opposed to a S&B lynch right now, even if he has not my preference. Nevertheless, I didn't have time to look really carefully at his filter nor the cases against him and that's the first thing I'm going to do after I finish this post. I think I'm going to have a lot of opportunities to discuss his case today and to reevaluate my read on him. DarthPunkTownread, not planning to spend some time on him today - Hammer vote on Hapa
- Pushed as lynch candidate and showed a very townie reaction in his "last" defense
- Valid reasons for less activity and participation than its usual townie self
ClarityBack to null read, need to look at him closely today I like Clarity posts and case so far but I've also noticed that he was against a Crossfire lynch after Crossfire case against BH and he tried to convince people not to swicth their votes at the last minute. HopelessConfirmed town Confirmed vig at 95%, I'll reconsider if he survives until a LYLO situation or if we have a SK kill. IampNull read, need to evaluate him I didn't take the time to look at iamp yet. Nothing stroke me in his posts when I was out of the game but I'm not considering this as a good sign. I need to look at his filter today. KickstartTown read, not planning to spend some time on him today Newbie town read on Kickstart so far. I've been quite good at these kind of reads so far so I'm not planning to spend some time on him yet. Z-BoTop Townread, not planning to spend some time on him today - Miller claim
- Good contributor
- Pushed as a lynch candidate for bad reasons (I liked his defense against the "meta-case" against him)
debearsSlight Townread, need to reevaluate I globally liked debears participation and contribution when I was reading the game (i.e not playing). Nevertheless, I don't like how he states that all the players on the Hapa wagon are town. I don't like how he defends BH neither. Need to re-evaluate.
Ok. List post. Seems to contribute but is he actually saying anything commital here? NOt that I can see. aside from lists such as these when he replaced into the game all he was doing was tunnelling BH when he had no right to be and posting lists.
Bad start.
Here. After tunnelling BH for a while and doing nothing else useful whatsoever he get;s caught by debears
On November 17 2012 00:34 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2012 23:01 debears wrote:On November 16 2012 18:17 Djodref wrote:
It pisses me off that you don't want to consider a BH lynch given his prestation for all D1/N1. I understand that it is not likely for him to be scum given the circumstances but I think that he has taken advantge of it to auto proclaim himself ”confirmed town” when his play shows the opposite.
I don't like this at all and I'm not dropping this case until people start to realize that he is likely to be a goon after all.
It's still early D2 so I'll get some time to consider other players so please don't try to shush by stating that a BH lynch is not going to happen. Are you sure you aren't scum? Again, poor wording from my part. I understand why you don't consider likely for him to be scum given the circumstances. But I want you to focus on his play rather than the circumstances because he looks very scummy apart from this.
I understand it is not likely he is scum. Doesn't want him to be confirmed town (ROFL WHAT?) Proceed to tunnel and push a mislynch on him.
He plays it away by stating it was worded poorly but then says the exact same thing. He understands why other don;t think he is scum. But wants people to ignore the fact he is an un-counter claimed JK and still wants to tunnel and lynch him
Ask yourself at this point. Is Djo pushing BH because he thinks he is scum? or because he played poorly and it is easier to tunnel one player and give a lot of town reads with little explanation? I have to go with the latter. If he understands the fundamental reasons that BH is not scum then why does he ignore them and continue to tunnel BH rather than move on once that player is eliminated and try and find actual scum like any normal townie would.
OK. He unvtes BH then Revotes him and tunnels him a bunch. Giving out a heap of town reads along the way and no other scumreads. A heap of Setup Speculation which is easy to use as scum to fake contribute. No scum hunting at all.
Then he wants a mass claim....
More mass claim discussion
More setup speculation.
more tunneling BH
Still no scum hunting.
On November 18 2012 14:55 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 14:41 iamperfection wrote:
s&b like wtf man you just disappear like wtf dude.
I know my little mini case on you is kind of silly with the dota thing is crazy but you could at least call it stupid. DO YOU CARE s&b.
Bh think about your action critically please i will lead the wagon of justice against you myself if you make another dumb play this game.
Also DP want to hear your thoughts in light of zbos flip is clarity who your still thinking now because i dont really see it.
djo i know you think setup speculation but please do some traditional scum hunting before dawn.
I will post updated thoughts in the 1 hour grace period like last time. I will probably be quieter tomorrow because weekends are bad for my mafia play but i will be here 100% during that grace period.
@ iampI'm sorry but I don't think that we need traditional scum hunting if we mass-claim. Why would you want to read in details 130 pages of posts when you can use simple logic to find the bad guys ? Are you in or not ? Anyway I want to lynch BH tomorrow so I'll bring a case against him. S &B is on my side so I'm not inclined to lynch him...I am a bit wary of debears right now because he has been a little stupid wrt the Z-Bo lynch and this is not something I expect from town debears. But it's sunday and he has a long filter and I think there is a better way to solve this game.
LOL wants to mass claim. Cause then we won't have to scum hunt. Does not want to lynch S&B.
More setup speculation.
Ok half way through his filter I find the first serious piece of scumhunting. If you can call it that.
2012 17:48 Djodref wrote:[/B]
lol
Ok, I've just read Kickstart filter one more time and I have still a town read on him. But there are some things I don't like in his filter, especially during D2. It's still a town read but I'm not as sure as before.
Why I'm still leaning town on him- The general tone of his posts. He is open about his thought process and seems genuine and honest in his reads. I've got a "newbie-town" feeling when I'm reading his posts and I'm inclined to trust this kind of feeling given my experience in the newbie games when my guts were rarely wrong wrt newb town players.
- His last minute vote from nowhere against Hapa (the last one before DarthPunk hammer)
- This contribution + Show Spoiler +
On November 16 2012 10:21 Kickstart wrote:So anyways I looked back over the D1 lynch to read through it more carefully because it was a huge mess. Here are some of my thoughts on it. Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 11:00 Dandel Ion wrote:Final Votecount:DarthPunk (1): thrawn2112 Z-BosoN (5): Clarity_nl, marvellosity, Crossfire99, strongandbig, Hapahaulidebears (1): Hopeless1derHapahauli (6): Z-BosoN, Blazinghand, debears, iamperfection, Kickstart, DarthPunkHapahauli has been lynched!
Full version (disregarded):+ Show Spoiler +debears (2): Z-Boson, strongandbig, Hapahauli, Hopeless1nder, marvellosity, strongandbig
DarthPunk (7): Hapahauli Hapahauli, Clarity_nl, thrawn2112, Blazinghand, iamperfection, Blazinghand, Blazinghand, Hapahauli, debears, Z-BosoN, Kickstart, debears
Hopeless1der (0): debears, marvellosity, marvellosity, Z-BosoN, Kickstart, debears, debears
Z-BosoN (4): Blazinghand, iamperfection, Blazinghand, marvellosity, Clarity_nl, marvellosity, DarthPunk, Crossfire99
Hapahauli (0): iamperfection, strongandbig. Kickstart, Blazinghand
Blazinghand (0): iamperfection, Z-BosoN, marvellosity, iamperfection, strongandbig, Crossfire99
iamperfection (0): Hapahauli, Bloatinghand
thrawn2112 (0): Hapahauli
strongandbig (0): DarthPunk, Z-BosoN, Clarity_nl, Hapahauli, DarthPunk
Clarity_nl (0): DarthPunk
marvellosity (0): debears
Crossfire99 (0): marvellosity, debears, Blazinghand
Not voting (0): Now the townreads aren't set in stone for everyone I put as town nor are the people I didn't mark green suspicious, this is just based off of the D1 lynch and I would like to make a case for why I think these people are town: Regarding Z-BosoNHere is just an outline of my views on ZB throughout the game so far because my town read on him just builds as time has gone on. + Show Spoiler +On November 14 2012 00:41 Kickstart wrote:
@debears
I have a slight scum read on Hapa at the moment, because of what I outlined in that post and the fact that in general I found his posting to be (trying to find the most polite way to phrase it :D) non-productive.
Hopeless hasn't really stood out to me too much. His posting has been under the radar and not sticking his neck out much, almost his entire filter is the discussion about if crossfire is a smurf or not. So overall I view him as slightly "anti-town" thus far. I would just like to hear more of his thoughts on something/someone not related to cross being a smurf or not.
ZB started the SnB bandwagon which I have already stated I am completely against, so I want to see if he sticks with it. In general his posts have been substantive - out of six posts one is a roleclaim, two he casts a vote on someone and gives some explanation, and then the others he is reacting to/reading people. I see no reason yet to question his miller claim, but again a lot of that could change depending on how he continues with the SnB vote.
With that I am going to go to sleep and won't be back on for awhile. I will try and catch up and post before heading to class but if not I have all night once I get back! So I did not like the whole SnB bandwagon to begin with and therefor was watching how ZB acted around it but off the bat I felt his posts were pro-town and contributing. ZB came under fire for his new posting habits but the above is part of the reason why I didn't like the meta case and why I refused to lynchvote ZB. See this quote for more of the same on why I didn't want to lynchvote ZB (made at the time when a large number of votes were on him): + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 09:57 Kickstart wrote:Regarding Z-BosonI am not comfortable with a lynch on ZB. So he is playing differently and posting less, but when I take a look at his filter I see some very lengthy and thought out posts that offer good analysis. I don't think that lynching him due to him posting differently this game is fair, especially when his posts are pretty significant (I said earlier that even though his filter wasn't large, every post contributed something). I take Hapas word that before this game even started he talked with ZB and ZB discussed wanting to change his posting style a bit (though a skype log would be nice!).
Why lynch someone who has changed their posting style when you could be lynching someone who isn't being pro-town at all:Regarding Hopeless1derLook at his filter, there is NO attempt to find scum, the only person he gos after is debears, but only after debears went after him. The first half of his filter is talk about people being afk and/or smurfs - this really doesn't help at all. And his post where he reads debears: + Show Spoiler +On November 14 2012 22:16 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 14:54 debears wrote:
For all you who think me being afk is a scumtell, which you guys are retarded if you do
Let me just say this once. Fuck off debears. Nothing personal, but in all seriousness OMGUS. I'm still your scum read because I've done nothing since you laid into me for 'lecturing town'. If you still want to harp on that chord, you're not being a good little townie. I was afk for longer than you were, and you have nothing new to post in the thread. I'll lay this out for you. This is the post I was "lecturing" about: Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 10:49 DarthPunk wrote:On November 13 2012 10:44 marvellosity wrote:
you can't active lurk in a game that's less than 2 hours old, numbnuts.
If anyone's 'active lurking' it's me. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Don't shut people down who are obviously trying their best to scum hunt and contribute. You are only going to discourage those things. Or is that what you want? I was not lecturing everyone, I was responding to a single post and listing multiple examples of less than stellar reasons to vote for someone. I was told to drop it with you so you could focus on the rest of the game instead, because I was distracting you from being useful. Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 00:17 marvellosity wrote:
Hopeless, I think you're making too much of that. The bit you bold says "was" - past tense, that was his stance previously (when he'd missed my Crossfire post).
Like debears said just now there's not a lot to say about Crossfire otherwise, you can't really have a stance on someone who hasn't posted yet.
The whole issue is overblown and should be dropped. If only because it's a big distraction to debears, who has to keep talking about it, and it's not helping anyone And yet I'm still your top scum read and iamperfection is still the only other player you'll really talk about. You haven't commented on anything significant (neither have I yet, but fuck it, you're already voting me) I dont give a shit what your IRL issues are, same as you probably dont care why I was gone. I care that you claim that there are no better cases than the one on me when you have no new information and are just stuck on the fact that I'm afk and therefore avoiding you. What's more, you aren't even pushing me as your scum read. Yes this is an OMGUS vote. ##Vote: debearsAm I going to need to pull a BH and shoot my load earl--I mean sift through my own meta to find examples of me being a jackass? Btw debears, why in the hell were you unable/unwilling to comment on BH's claim? On November 15 2012 06:27 Hopeless1der wrote:
In response to Z-Bo's case on me:
- No comment on BH should still hold merit as an attack against debears, especially if used as a contributing factor to my own scumminess.
Meta read - Earlier you said my meta this game was comparable to LVII. You've 180'd that read. I have no conclusion here, I'm just pointing it out.
Other points from meta: Me referring back to previous cases. I had an actual case to refer back to, and I was also much more convinced by that case. This game, we have me being inactive, Cross being modkillable the first 24 hours or so, thrawn afk, DP afk, BH trolling. Lots of things that just sucked bag. In LVII, we have Matt claim scum super early and the ensuing discussions were getting excessively redundant until Palmar came in and confirmed Matt was fakeclaiming. Before that, I was trying to focus the thread a little. This game is no where near as out of control as that situation was and also (IRL bullshit that no one cares about)
Since BH has claimed, I find debears to be incredibly scummy, and Marv made a point of articulating already. I felt he was scummy before from the way he attacked me for lecturing and it being anti-town. I also felt his meta/smurf's are unreadable comments were contradictory and he was twisting words to make a case on me based on very little information. However, I was explicitly told to drop my suspicions because they were a) poorly thought out and b) distracting debears from helping town.
He hasn't helped town. Hapa's case on debears is spot on (in my heavily biased opinion) and I don't want to lynch anyone else right now. His only reason for voting debears is that debears made a read on him and voted him. And then there is this: Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 09:21 Hopeless1der wrote:
@Marv's case on Z-Boson - Quite frankly, if it saves me, I'll vote Z-boson, otherwise my vote stays parked on debears. I still think Z-Bo is town though, I just happen to know I'm town. I don't like this at all. Hopeless clearly states that he views ZB is town, earlier in the game ZB makes a small meta case and hopeless doesn't vote him (rightfully so) - but now he will throw his vote on ZB??? You don't scum hunt at all, say you view ZB as town but are willing to vote for him, and keep your vote parked on debears all game solely because debears made a read on you and threw his vote your way. This is not town oriented play in my opinion. Then there is the day 1 voting. ZB was one of the potential lynch candidates and at a point it seemed he was goign to be the lynch (with 8 votes on his head no less!): Note that this is right before the wild swing of votes to Hapa, so had that note happened it was ZB getting lynched. + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 10:55 Dandel Ion wrote:votecount:DarthPunk (2): thrawn2112, KickstartZ-BosoN (8): Clarity_nl, marvellosity, DarthPunk, Crossfire99, Blazinghand, strongandbig, iamperfection, Hapahaulidebears (1): Hopeless1derHopeless (2): Z-BosoN, debearsCurrently, Z-BosoN is set to be lynched!
Full version (disregarded):+ Show Spoiler +debears (2): Z-Boson, strongandbig, Hapahauli, Hopeless1nder, marvellosity, strongandbig
DarthPunk (7): Hapahauli Hapahauli, Clarity_nl, thrawn2112, Blazinghand, iamperfection, Blazinghand, Blazinghand, Hapahauli, debears, Z-BosoN, Kickstart, debears
Hopeless1der (0): debears, marvellosity, marvellosity, Z-BosoN, Kickstart, debears, debears
Z-BosoN (4): Blazinghand, iamperfection, Blazinghand, marvellosity, Clarity_nl, marvellosity, DarthPunk, Crossfire99
Hapahauli (0): iamperfection, strongandbig. Kickstart, Blazinghand
Blazinghand (0): iamperfection, Z-BosoN, marvellosity, iamperfection, strongandbig, Crossfire99
iamperfection (0): Hapahauli, Bloatinghand
thrawn2112 (0): Hapahauli
strongandbig (0): DarthPunk, Z-BosoN, Clarity_nl, Hapahauli, DarthPunk
Clarity_nl (0): DarthPunk
marvellosity (0): debears
Crossfire99 (0): marvellosity, debears, Blazinghand
Not voting (0): Looked bad for our pal ZB so this is "dying post": + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 10:55 Z-BosoN wrote:
LYNCH HAPAHAULI.
LYNCH BLAZINGHAND. when he is alive day 3.
marv, hope you learn you are not the fucking god of mafia, and see that meta reads are only worth it if it isn't fucking obvious stylistic proven logical and pre-claimed reasons. Turns out he was right (halfway at least but I suspect 100% right ^^). So in summation I've always felt pretty good about ZB and then the D1 lynch just solidified it. Regarding DarthPunkBasically I agree with and echo the idea that when DP was set to be lynched, he did an extremely good job of showing that he was town. And an interesting note is that like ZB, when DP thought he was the lynch, he names Hapa and BH aswell : + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 10:43 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:37 iamperfection wrote:On November 15 2012 10:35 DarthPunk wrote:On November 15 2012 10:34 iamperfection wrote:
DP DO NOT RUN AWAY IF YOUR TOWN. Give reads on the people voting on you. I just did. more How about this. I was probably not going to be lynched until two of the best town players I know who are very rarely wrong about scum reads lead the most retarded wagon in the world on me which is wrong. So either they are worse than I thought. Can't read me at all or are scum. Hapa is not playing the same as GSL he is playing worse. Hi scum game is townie though so be wary of that. But he is not giving the confident and often correct reads taht he usually gives as town. He is starting up a stupid fucking wagon that he is usually wary of as town. Hapa is like the fucking divine presence of level headedness usually but this band wagon is not it. BH I have never played with before. But he is reading scum into things that should not be read as scummy. SO he might just be worse than I thought. Marv is actually fucking right although rightly confused but seems townie from genuinely wanting to figure shit out rather than leap onto a retarded wagon. Also. How much fucking conviction does BH have in his reads when I am so scummy but then he insta votes for a fucking Coin toss. BH is scum. Because he doesn't give a fuck about the lynch as long as he lynches a townie. So those are my two strong town reads out of the lynch. Again the others I showed as green or did not is only an indication of how I viewed the lynch (some of the people I left unmarked I feel are very likely town for example). As for the people I had marked as SCUM: Well, Hapa doesn't need much explaining :D (GJ town!). Regarding Hopeless1derBefore the lynch I posted my read of him, and so far it all remains relevant: + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 09:57 Kickstart wrote:Regarding Z-BosonI am not comfortable with a lynch on ZB. So he is playing differently and posting less, but when I take a look at his filter I see some very lengthy and thought out posts that offer good analysis. I don't think that lynching him due to him posting differently this game is fair, especially when his posts are pretty significant (I said earlier that even though his filter wasn't large, every post contributed something). I take Hapas word that before this game even started he talked with ZB and ZB discussed wanting to change his posting style a bit (though a skype log would be nice!). Why lynch someone who has changed their posting style when you could be lynching someone who isn't being pro-town at all: Regarding Hopeless1derLook at his filter, there is NO attempt to find scum, the only person he gos after is debears, but only after debears went after him. The first half of his filter is talk about people being afk and/or smurfs - this really doesn't help at all. And his post where he reads debears: + Show Spoiler +On November 14 2012 22:16 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 14:54 debears wrote:
For all you who think me being afk is a scumtell, which you guys are retarded if you do
Let me just say this once. Fuck off debears. Nothing personal, but in all seriousness OMGUS. I'm still your scum read because I've done nothing since you laid into me for 'lecturing town'. If you still want to harp on that chord, you're not being a good little townie. I was afk for longer than you were, and you have nothing new to post in the thread. I'll lay this out for you. This is the post I was "lecturing" about: Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 10:49 DarthPunk wrote:On November 13 2012 10:44 marvellosity wrote:
you can't active lurk in a game that's less than 2 hours old, numbnuts.
If anyone's 'active lurking' it's me. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Don't shut people down who are obviously trying their best to scum hunt and contribute. You are only going to discourage those things. Or is that what you want? I was not lecturing everyone, I was responding to a single post and listing multiple examples of less than stellar reasons to vote for someone. I was told to drop it with you so you could focus on the rest of the game instead, because I was distracting you from being useful. Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 00:17 marvellosity wrote:
Hopeless, I think you're making too much of that. The bit you bold says "was" - past tense, that was his stance previously (when he'd missed my Crossfire post).
Like debears said just now there's not a lot to say about Crossfire otherwise, you can't really have a stance on someone who hasn't posted yet.
The whole issue is overblown and should be dropped. If only because it's a big distraction to debears, who has to keep talking about it, and it's not helping anyone And yet I'm still your top scum read and iamperfection is still the only other player you'll really talk about. You haven't commented on anything significant (neither have I yet, but fuck it, you're already voting me) I dont give a shit what your IRL issues are, same as you probably dont care why I was gone. I care that you claim that there are no better cases than the one on me when you have no new information and are just stuck on the fact that I'm afk and therefore avoiding you. What's more, you aren't even pushing me as your scum read. Yes this is an OMGUS vote. ##Vote: debearsAm I going to need to pull a BH and shoot my load earl--I mean sift through my own meta to find examples of me being a jackass? Btw debears, why in the hell were you unable/unwilling to comment on BH's claim? On November 15 2012 06:27 Hopeless1der wrote:
In response to Z-Bo's case on me:
- No comment on BH should still hold merit as an attack against debears, especially if used as a contributing factor to my own scumminess.
Meta read - Earlier you said my meta this game was comparable to LVII. You've 180'd that read. I have no conclusion here, I'm just pointing it out.
Other points from meta: Me referring back to previous cases. I had an actual case to refer back to, and I was also much more convinced by that case. This game, we have me being inactive, Cross being modkillable the first 24 hours or so, thrawn afk, DP afk, BH trolling. Lots of things that just sucked bag. In LVII, we have Matt claim scum super early and the ensuing discussions were getting excessively redundant until Palmar came in and confirmed Matt was fakeclaiming. Before that, I was trying to focus the thread a little. This game is no where near as out of control as that situation was and also (IRL bullshit that no one cares about)
Since BH has claimed, I find debears to be incredibly scummy, and Marv made a point of articulating already. I felt he was scummy before from the way he attacked me for lecturing and it being anti-town. I also felt his meta/smurf's are unreadable comments were contradictory and he was twisting words to make a case on me based on very little information. However, I was explicitly told to drop my suspicions because they were a) poorly thought out and b) distracting debears from helping town.
He hasn't helped town. Hapa's case on debears is spot on (in my heavily biased opinion) and I don't want to lynch anyone else right now. His only reason for voting debears is that debears made a read on him and voted him. And then there is this: Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 09:21 Hopeless1der wrote:
@Marv's case on Z-Boson - Quite frankly, if it saves me, I'll vote Z-boson, otherwise my vote stays parked on debears. I still think Z-Bo is town though, I just happen to know I'm town. I don't like this at all. Hopeless clearly states that he views ZB is town, earlier in the game ZB makes a small meta case and hopeless doesn't vote him (rightfully so) - but now he will throw his vote on ZB??? You don't scum hunt at all, say you view ZB as town but are willing to vote for him, and keep your vote parked on debears all game solely because debears made a read on you and threw his vote your way. This is not town oriented play in my opinion. I just feel that his anti-town tone has continued on through the lynch and after. As for the lynch itself hopeless NEVER stuck his neck out, he constantly stayed on debears the entire time (not that hapa temporarily switch over to debears apparantlytrying to start a wagon on him?): + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 10:50 Hapahauli wrote:##UnvoteYeah marv's right here - DP's being pretty townie going down. Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:46 debears wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote Hopeless
Plz for the love of god vote hopeless ppl Can we please lynch this guy? Please? ##Vote Debears The only thing that gives me a bit of reservation is that hopeless could have saved hapa had he switched his vote off of debears and put it on ZB at any time. But then I don't really think anyone was expecting hapa to get lynched. Regarding strongandbigJust take a look at this guys filter and then couple that with his votes and tell me it isn't suspicious as hell. SnB, like hopeless, never sticks his neck out on any reads and just agrees or disagrees with other peoples points. Couple that with his votes (ignore the hapa vote, it was at the VERY start of the game and it was a complete joke vote; he only votes for debears, blazinghand, and ZB). He was also oddly quiet during the pile onto hapa - while being there to laugh the most and mkae jokes afterwards?? Some reservations I have about snb is that he has gone after both hapa and hopeless postings (hapa who we know is scum and hopeless who I have the strongest read on at the moment), but scum dissing on scum isn't unheard of. Another reservation is that he has gone after BH hardcore, who I would be just as willing to lunch at this point as snb (though I would still rather go after my top read atm - hopeless). Anyways there you have it, hopefully night actions reveal some more stuffs.
What I didn't link in his filter- This post + Show Spoiler +
On November 15 2012 11:20 Kickstart wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 16:52 Kickstart wrote:Here is why I have doubts about Hapa. Hapa starts off by being the first one to cast a "pointless vote" at the start of the day. + Show Spoiler +On November 13 2012 09:25 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 09:15 Clarity_nl wrote:
I don't think anyone will be against millers claiming and a lurker lynch policy. If they are they should speak up. Otherwise we really don't need to mention it again. Oh hum I need something more controversial then. Howabout the lynch DarthPunk policy? I have a hard time reading him and rolls scum 66% of the time when I'm in game with him. Sample size be damned! ##Vote DarthPunk I see that several people did this and were joking but I don't like it much and Hapa is the first to do it, which is even more interesting because soon after he states that the random vote gambit is far overused ;/ : + Show Spoiler +On November 13 2012 09:37 Hapahauli wrote:
@iamp
The "random vote" gambit has been far overused. I'm not a fan.
I'd comment on your post, but I'm not even sure what you're talking about there. He then unvotes DP just to revote him: + Show Spoiler +On November 13 2012 10:22 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 10:15 DarthPunk wrote:On November 13 2012 10:01 strongandbig wrote:
if zb was scum he would have made a much longer post
##vote: hapahauli
im down with that iamperfection thinkamajig So retarded. ##Vote: Strongandbig You're voting him 'cause the post is retarded? And not because it's scummy? The last time you pulled that, you were scum (Mafia LVII). ##Vote DarthPunk('fo real this time) Which he unvotes again -_- And there is the whole SnB bandwagon that he jumps on: + Show Spoiler +On November 13 2012 10:54 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 10:50 debears wrote:
Does S&B normally act like this?
Just curious :D
Feel free to answer that S&B Well it's weird for sure. I'm used to seeing scum SnB be a lot more "wordy" when he posts. Atleast this was the case in Mafia LVII and Death Note Mini. Howwwwwweva, this post really sets off my scum alarms: Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 10:48 strongandbig wrote:On November 13 2012 10:01 debears wrote:On November 13 2012 09:59 Hapahauli wrote:On November 13 2012 09:50 DarthPunk wrote:On November 13 2012 09:47 Hapahauli wrote:On November 13 2012 09:44 DarthPunk wrote:On November 13 2012 09:41 Z-BosoN wrote:Hello, sirs. First of all I´d like to claim miller. There are two very viable options now, regarding my alignment on this game. I am fakeclaiming as mafia. I am in fact a miller. My claim here would be fairly risky as scum, and as town it makes more sense to claim so as to not waste detective checks on me, but of course this is WIFOM. I hope to show my alignment in this game through brilliant, stellar townie play, and hope town uses this factor and this factor alone when scouting my alignment. The only thing I hope to achieve with this claim is to not be checked by an eventual cop, as that check will be guaranteed to turn red. That being said, I look forward to playing this game. Lot's of familiar faces around, and I am curious to hear more from people I haven't played yet. Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out HI ZB <3. Yeah ZB will figure me out If I am scum, and Vice Versa. Hapa will figure marv out and marv will figure everyone out. GG scummers But what if me, ZB, and marv are all scum o_O Then Blazinghand, Debears and I will rip you all a new arsehole. <3 Oh noes! Well fortunately I'm not scum. + Show Spoiler +On November 13 2012 09:55 iamperfection wrote:On November 13 2012 09:52 Hapahauli wrote:On November 13 2012 09:45 iamperfection wrote:
i guess theirs no reason not to believe zbos right? has to be to risky to do if he was scum right. Woah woah hold-up. I'm not liking how you're trusting this claim right away. Claiming miller is a pretty much a riskless play here. We don't know how many millers are in the setup, and as far as I'm concerned, the claim is null until Z-Bo proves otherwise. its what i think so whatever. Zbos scum is gone put himself out there like that i dont think so. It's not "so whatever" - I'm pretty skeptical how you're so willing to think Z-Bo is town off what looks to me like a completely null action. Hapa, last time you did that little spoiler trick (GsL III), you were the role that you put in the spoiler. Here, you put bowser. Now why would you put bowser out of all the scum roles? It seems to me like you were actively thinking of bowser, which you shouldn't be if you are town. I would expect you to put a town role in that spoiler this is stupid He calls debears argument/suspicion on me stupid, when he himself has his vote on me. It's not consistent at all with his suspicions so far, and I can't wrap my head around a townie thought process here. ## Vote StrongandBig At least he stays away from voting based on the VT claim post but he starts out by inferring that if SnB were scum he would be posting differently and then votes him anyways based on the "this is stupid" comment (which to be fair to SnB I agree with him, the whole point about putting your role in a spoiler is silly). Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 11:47 Kickstart wrote:
Wowzers that was a lot to catch up on, I really tried to post before heading off to school but there was way too much to read and process. I was 100% down with lynching BH... and then he claims jk. I still don't like his posting before or after the claim and think that the claim did no one other than himself any good. I would love to flip him just to see, because the way I see it, at worst he is scum trying to save himself (but as stated before that would be REALLY reckless) and at best he is now deadweight.
For me the best thing I feel I have to go off of is looking at peoples votes and trying to pick out the scumvotes, and I still think the SnB bandwagon had some scum attached to it (who were basically forced to switch their votes after it being called out for what it was). Top scum read for me is still Hapa. I think he hopped on the SnB wagon, then tried to start an iamp one (with BH, so that is part of the reason I was 100% down for lynching BH and if he flipped red I would have insta voted Hapa - but then BH claimed so....), and now he is voting for debears with everyone else.
I suppose it is time to put my vote where my mouth is, but I would like to hear other peoples thoughts on Hapa. If most others are getting scum read on him (which some people have already posted that they are) I would like to hear why, likewise if someone thinks hes town I want to hear why.
##Vote: Hapahauli
and @Hapa
No hard feelings, you have been very kind to me in your posts which I do appreciate but I can't let that influence my reads. So were my points at the time valid? I'm not sure what to think of this because it seems that I had it right but at the time got no support. Did I not provide enough analysis/reasoning? Was it just unconvincing? ;/
- I also don't like this post + Show Spoiler +
On November 18 2012 12:58 Kickstart wrote:
Man shit I'm sorry I slept right through the lynch, but I wouldn't of changed my vote off of SnB anyways. I've stated all along that my strongest town read was on ZB so I was not going to vote for him this early on - seems I was right :S. Going forward I think the order of our lynches should be:
1st or 2nd: SNB and DJO (SnB first, still the person I find scummiest)
3rd: Clarity (though I don't have a strong scum read on him, I haven't read him as town all game and all the other players I feel are more town than him).
4th: BH (because if we get rid of those 3 and no new developments are made, it is time to get rid of BH finally for his shenanigans).
The points against him are not strong and I hope that he can provide good explanations for them. I think that he got lazy during D2 and this is something I can understand given the flips so far.
My conclusion is that he is a first time player, which I'm leaning town on, and that it could be quite difficult for him to keep up with all what happens in this very active game but I hope than he can provide good play as he did during D1 and I would be satisfied with that. [/QUOTE]
Way to say something without saying anything at all.
Here is why I think he is town
Here is why he could be scum
All in all I think he is a new player.
Like wtf?!?!? Not contributing not scum hunting and a wishy-washy nothing of a first case 5 pages into his filter.
More setup speculation.
Useless shit like this comprises 99% of his activity. On November 18 2012 18:50 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 18:18 debears wrote:On November 18 2012 17:59 Djodref wrote:
@ debears
I disagree, it could be a good strategy for a possible SK to retain his night kills until we manage to find the last scum.
What does make you think that a possible SK would kill tonight ? 1) Assuming that the SK isn't hopeless, he could put doubt on hopeless' claim. 2) it's what, 8/7 town to 1 scum/sk or 1 scum and sk 3) The longer the game goes on, the harder it is to conceal a guilty conscience/push your agenda as sk/mafia @ debears1)That's actually a good point. I don't think that hopeless could be SK even with another kill because he killed Crossfire and that would have been against a SK interest. But I've just realized that there was no way for a SK Hopeless to know for sure that Cross was scum when he decided to kill. By the way, would you yourself doubt Hopeless claim if we have 2 kills again tonight ? I remember that Hopeless was on your radar during D1. 2)That's also a good point. But it depends on the strategy you would choose as a SK. I don't know about it... 3)I disagree with this one because a possible SK would not know who the last scum is better than us. He would have no other thing to do than to scumhunt hard while not killing anyone and hope to survive until lylo. You don't have any guilty conscience if you didn't kill anyone, right ?
Talks about set-up and breadcrumbs..
ZZZZ
UOTE]On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote:
Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts.
I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have.
MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play.
Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you.
##Vote S&B[/QUOTE]
Look at his vote on S&B no real reason. Only that he is voting BH someone who he had just tunnelled like forever.
NO case. No scum hunting and a vote on the popular candidate.
ZZZ more setup speculation. there is literally ZERO scumhunting in his filter.
On November 20 2012 03:25 Djodref wrote:
On a personal note, I've like S&B defense during D2, maybe because I'm more emotional than rational, so I'm not totally sure of S&B being the last scum yet even if he is the right person to lynch at the moment. I'm very curious to see what are going to be his next contributions.
I'll accept people getting lazy if they can provide me with a case that totally proves that S&B is the last scum.
What the is he saying here? That's right. Nothing at all apart from distancing himself from a mislynch.
On November 20 2012 03:35 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 03:22 Clarity_nl wrote:
I don't have anything against you. That's not how this game works.
I'm trying to ignore thrawn's stuff altogether but it's obviously in the back of my head. Although the setup speculation helped it really got on my nerves and it seemed to be all you were willing to talk about.
I haven't made a case on you because I haven't been focusing on you much, and there's nothing that stands out as inherently scummy. But look at the players we'll have left after snb gets lynched (assuming he flips town). To me everyone on that list is rather townie, and you are probably the least towny out of them atm.
Your argument that darth hasn't taken advantage of his position can be said about hopeless and kickstart as well. @ ClarityThe setup speculation allows us to have 100% confirmed blues right now. And the last scum is not able to fakeclaim if get close to his sorry ass... Honestly, if Hopeless was not a confirmed Vig, I would be all over him right now. Regarding Kickstart, we need to give him more room so he can post more. Also I think we should listen to what he is saying. First games are always depressing when every other player is coming at you for the scummy things that you inevitably post and never acknowledge what you are saying. I understand that he could get bored in his position. But Darthpunk is not in the same position as Hopeless and Kickstart. He has won his Acme game so he should have more time to spare with us.
More of this shit. This is like his whole filter. talk about set-up call out some lynch bait. Rinse and repeat.
NO scumhunting. NO real contributions. NO reason for Voting. NO Impetus to find out who the scum are.
Acting as if he is contributing when in fact his filter contains nothing.
##Vote: Djodref
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On November 20 2012 21:44 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 21:12 DarthPunk wrote:On November 20 2012 21:06 Djodref wrote:On November 20 2012 20:58 Blazinghand wrote:
djodref you think anyone wants to actually look at those posts full of letters and algebra and stuff? especially a busy guy like DP? Really what it comes down to is given the flips and claims, there are 2 blues left alive, and they are me and hopeless1. lol, okay, I'm going to sum up everything for him. First things first, you have to check this internet page about C9++, it is a very interesting read, believe. Second, given the claims and the flips and the lack of night actions at the exception of the mafia kills and BH being RBed, our setup is defined by the following set of letters, MVCCDTT, which gives us a 100% certainty of Hopeless being Luigi and BH being Yoshi. I'm done with talking now, I'll check Clarity's filter. LOL you think I haven't read that page? The thing is I don't care about set up speculation. I would not want to lynch BH with no counter claim regardless. It's great you are done with talking. But you are not BH and if you think you can get away without telling me exactly why S&B is scum you are going to be sorely disappointed. You may think I am a bad player. and that is fine. I am comparatively to others. But I am not someone who you can roll over very easily. I have only lost one game of mafia in my 8 games. This will NOT be my second. @ DarthPunkMaybe you should take care of setup speculation. You would have understood that lynching the uncontested miller was as bad as lynching the uncontested jailkeeper. Here, I'm saying that we were both bad
All you do is talk about set-up.
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Edited with correct formatting.
DJO
On November 16 2012 22:00 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2012 13:05 Z-BosoN wrote:
Djodref, I want to hear your every thought.
First off, why are you voting bh? I´m not sure about your reasoning. Do you agree with my post on the likelihood of scum being on my wagon? What do you make of that assessment?
Also, besides blazinghand, who else would you say is scum, and why? Ok, I think it is a good time now to share my thoughts. Regarding my BH vote, I think that it is important for everyone to realize that it is possible for him to be scum. I don't want people to discard a BH lynch because his jailkeeper claim is undisputed and because he lynched Hapahauli. At least, I want him to be considered as a lynch candidate, hence my vote. Now I understand that it's unlikely that we lynch BH today but I'll keep on promoting his lynch. We have already 2 confirmed scum on your wagon when you have 8 votes 5 minutes before lynch time. If they wanted to push a mislynch on you, there was no need of a third scum. It's true that nobody switched back to you when people started to vote Hapa but some people were not present and/or not able to react in time. Regarding the players on the Hapa wagon, I don't see why they should be automatically town as BH and debears seem to think. Hapa lynch was unlikely to happen when you look at the situation 5 minutes before the lynch and it could have been a smart for a scum player move to jump on the Hapa wagon at this point (because I think that Z-bo would have flipped town) and to cast a distance vote on Bowser, if you were thinking that this wagon was going to fail anyway (as it should have been, imho). Now here are my thoughts on the remaining players BlazinghandsTop Scumread I want the town to consider at least as a lynch candidate for today. S&BScumread Given his D1/N1 play, I'm not opposed to a S&B lynch right now, even if he has not my preference. Nevertheless, I didn't have time to look really carefully at his filter nor the cases against him and that's the first thing I'm going to do after I finish this post. I think I'm going to have a lot of opportunities to discuss his case today and to reevaluate my read on him. DarthPunkTownread, not planning to spend some time on him today - Hammer vote on Hapa
- Pushed as lynch candidate and showed a very townie reaction in his "last" defense
- Valid reasons for less activity and participation than its usual townie self
ClarityBack to null read, need to look at him closely today I like Clarity posts and case so far but I've also noticed that he was against a Crossfire lynch after Crossfire case against BH and he tried to convince people not to swicth their votes at the last minute. HopelessConfirmed town Confirmed vig at 95%, I'll reconsider if he survives until a LYLO situation or if we have a SK kill. IampNull read, need to evaluate him I didn't take the time to look at iamp yet. Nothing stroke me in his posts when I was out of the game but I'm not considering this as a good sign. I need to look at his filter today. KickstartTown read, not planning to spend some time on him today Newbie town read on Kickstart so far. I've been quite good at these kind of reads so far so I'm not planning to spend some time on him yet. Z-BoTop Townread, not planning to spend some time on him today - Miller claim
- Good contributor
- Pushed as a lynch candidate for bad reasons (I liked his defense against the "meta-case" against him)
debearsSlight Townread, need to reevaluate I globally liked debears participation and contribution when I was reading the game (i.e not playing). Nevertheless, I don't like how he states that all the players on the Hapa wagon are town. I don't like how he defends BH neither. Need to re-evaluate.
Ok. List post. Seems to contribute but is he actually saying anything commital here? NOt that I can see. aside from lists such as these when he replaced into the game all he was doing was tunnelling BH when he had no right to be and posting lists.
Bad start.
Here. After tunnelling BH for a while and doing nothing else useful whatsoever he get;s caught by debears
On November 17 2012 00:34 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2012 23:01 debears wrote:On November 16 2012 18:17 Djodref wrote:
It pisses me off that you don't want to consider a BH lynch given his prestation for all D1/N1. I understand that it is not likely for him to be scum given the circumstances but I think that he has taken advantge of it to auto proclaim himself ”confirmed town” when his play shows the opposite.
I don't like this at all and I'm not dropping this case until people start to realize that he is likely to be a goon after all.
It's still early D2 so I'll get some time to consider other players so please don't try to shush by stating that a BH lynch is not going to happen. Are you sure you aren't scum? Again, poor wording from my part. I understand why you don't consider likely for him to be scum given the circumstances. But I want you to focus on his play rather than the circumstances because he looks very scummy apart from this.
I understand it is not likely he is scum. Doesn't want him to be confirmed town (ROFL WHAT?) Proceed to tunnel and push a mislynch on him.
He plays it away by stating it was worded poorly but then says the exact same thing. He understands why other don;t think he is scum. But wants people to ignore the fact he is an un-counter claimed JK and still wants to tunnel and lynch him
Ask yourself at this point. Is Djo pushing BH because he thinks he is scum? or because he played poorly and it is easier to tunnel one player and give a lot of town reads with little explanation? I have to go with the latter. If he understands the fundamental reasons that BH is not scum then why does he ignore them and continue to tunnel BH rather than move on once that player is eliminated and try and find actual scum like any normal townie would.
OK. He unvtes BH then Revotes him and tunnels him a bunch. Giving out a heap of town reads along the way and no other scumreads. A heap of Setup Speculation which is easy to use as scum to fake contribute. No scum hunting at all.
Then he wants a mass claim....
More mass claim discussion
More setup speculation.
more tunneling BH
Still no scum hunting.
On November 18 2012 14:55 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 14:41 iamperfection wrote:
s&b like wtf man you just disappear like wtf dude.
I know my little mini case on you is kind of silly with the dota thing is crazy but you could at least call it stupid. DO YOU CARE s&b.
Bh think about your action critically please i will lead the wagon of justice against you myself if you make another dumb play this game.
Also DP want to hear your thoughts in light of zbos flip is clarity who your still thinking now because i dont really see it.
djo i know you think setup speculation but please do some traditional scum hunting before dawn.
I will post updated thoughts in the 1 hour grace period like last time. I will probably be quieter tomorrow because weekends are bad for my mafia play but i will be here 100% during that grace period.
@ iampI'm sorry but I don't think that we need traditional scum hunting if we mass-claim. Why would you want to read in details 130 pages of posts when you can use simple logic to find the bad guys ? Are you in or not ? Anyway I want to lynch BH tomorrow so I'll bring a case against him. S &B is on my side so I'm not inclined to lynch him...I am a bit wary of debears right now because he has been a little stupid wrt the Z-Bo lynch and this is not something I expect from town debears. But it's sunday and he has a long filter and I think there is a better way to solve this game.
LOL wants to mass claim. Cause then we won't have to scum hunt. Does not want to lynch S&B.
More setup speculation.
Ok half way through his filter I find the first serious piece of scumhunting. If you can call it that.
Djodref wrote:lol Ok, I've just read Kickstart filter one more time and I have still a town read on him. But there are some things I don't like in his filter, especially during D2. It's still a town read but I'm not as sure as before. Why I'm still leaning town on him - The general tone of his posts. He is open about his thought process and seems genuine and honest in his reads. I've got a "newbie-town" feeling when I'm reading his posts and I'm inclined to trust this kind of feeling given my experience in the newbie games when my guts were rarely wrong wrt newb town players.
- His last minute vote from nowhere against Hapa (the last one before DarthPunk hammer)
- This contribution + Show Spoiler +
On November 16 2012 10:21 Kickstart wrote:So anyways I looked back over the D1 lynch to read through it more carefully because it was a huge mess. Here are some of my thoughts on it. Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 11:00 Dandel Ion wrote:Final Votecount:DarthPunk (1): thrawn2112 Z-BosoN (5): Clarity_nl, marvellosity, Crossfire99, strongandbig, Hapahaulidebears (1): Hopeless1derHapahauli (6): Z-BosoN, Blazinghand, debears, iamperfection, Kickstart, DarthPunkHapahauli has been lynched!
Full version (disregarded):+ Show Spoiler +debears (2): Z-Boson, strongandbig, Hapahauli, Hopeless1nder, marvellosity, strongandbig
DarthPunk (7): Hapahauli Hapahauli, Clarity_nl, thrawn2112, Blazinghand, iamperfection, Blazinghand, Blazinghand, Hapahauli, debears, Z-BosoN, Kickstart, debears
Hopeless1der (0): debears, marvellosity, marvellosity, Z-BosoN, Kickstart, debears, debears
Z-BosoN (4): Blazinghand, iamperfection, Blazinghand, marvellosity, Clarity_nl, marvellosity, DarthPunk, Crossfire99
Hapahauli (0): iamperfection, strongandbig. Kickstart, Blazinghand
Blazinghand (0): iamperfection, Z-BosoN, marvellosity, iamperfection, strongandbig, Crossfire99
iamperfection (0): Hapahauli, Bloatinghand
thrawn2112 (0): Hapahauli
strongandbig (0): DarthPunk, Z-BosoN, Clarity_nl, Hapahauli, DarthPunk
Clarity_nl (0): DarthPunk
marvellosity (0): debears
Crossfire99 (0): marvellosity, debears, Blazinghand
Not voting (0): Now the townreads aren't set in stone for everyone I put as town nor are the people I didn't mark green suspicious, this is just based off of the D1 lynch and I would like to make a case for why I think these people are town: Regarding Z-BosoNHere is just an outline of my views on ZB throughout the game so far because my town read on him just builds as time has gone on. + Show Spoiler +On November 14 2012 00:41 Kickstart wrote:
@debears
I have a slight scum read on Hapa at the moment, because of what I outlined in that post and the fact that in general I found his posting to be (trying to find the most polite way to phrase it :D) non-productive.
Hopeless hasn't really stood out to me too much. His posting has been under the radar and not sticking his neck out much, almost his entire filter is the discussion about if crossfire is a smurf or not. So overall I view him as slightly "anti-town" thus far. I would just like to hear more of his thoughts on something/someone not related to cross being a smurf or not.
ZB started the SnB bandwagon which I have already stated I am completely against, so I want to see if he sticks with it. In general his posts have been substantive - out of six posts one is a roleclaim, two he casts a vote on someone and gives some explanation, and then the others he is reacting to/reading people. I see no reason yet to question his miller claim, but again a lot of that could change depending on how he continues with the SnB vote.
With that I am going to go to sleep and won't be back on for awhile. I will try and catch up and post before heading to class but if not I have all night once I get back! So I did not like the whole SnB bandwagon to begin with and therefor was watching how ZB acted around it but off the bat I felt his posts were pro-town and contributing. ZB came under fire for his new posting habits but the above is part of the reason why I didn't like the meta case and why I refused to lynchvote ZB. See this quote for more of the same on why I didn't want to lynchvote ZB (made at the time when a large number of votes were on him): + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 09:57 Kickstart wrote:Regarding Z-BosonI am not comfortable with a lynch on ZB. So he is playing differently and posting less, but when I take a look at his filter I see some very lengthy and thought out posts that offer good analysis. I don't think that lynching him due to him posting differently this game is fair, especially when his posts are pretty significant (I said earlier that even though his filter wasn't large, every post contributed something). I take Hapas word that before this game even started he talked with ZB and ZB discussed wanting to change his posting style a bit (though a skype log would be nice!).
Why lynch someone who has changed their posting style when you could be lynching someone who isn't being pro-town at all:Regarding Hopeless1derLook at his filter, there is NO attempt to find scum, the only person he gos after is debears, but only after debears went after him. The first half of his filter is talk about people being afk and/or smurfs - this really doesn't help at all. And his post where he reads debears: + Show Spoiler +On November 14 2012 22:16 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 14:54 debears wrote:
For all you who think me being afk is a scumtell, which you guys are retarded if you do
Let me just say this once. Fuck off debears. Nothing personal, but in all seriousness OMGUS. I'm still your scum read because I've done nothing since you laid into me for 'lecturing town'. If you still want to harp on that chord, you're not being a good little townie. I was afk for longer than you were, and you have nothing new to post in the thread. I'll lay this out for you. This is the post I was "lecturing" about: Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 10:49 DarthPunk wrote:On November 13 2012 10:44 marvellosity wrote:
you can't active lurk in a game that's less than 2 hours old, numbnuts.
If anyone's 'active lurking' it's me. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Don't shut people down who are obviously trying their best to scum hunt and contribute. You are only going to discourage those things. Or is that what you want? I was not lecturing everyone, I was responding to a single post and listing multiple examples of less than stellar reasons to vote for someone. I was told to drop it with you so you could focus on the rest of the game instead, because I was distracting you from being useful. Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 00:17 marvellosity wrote:
Hopeless, I think you're making too much of that. The bit you bold says "was" - past tense, that was his stance previously (when he'd missed my Crossfire post).
Like debears said just now there's not a lot to say about Crossfire otherwise, you can't really have a stance on someone who hasn't posted yet.
The whole issue is overblown and should be dropped. If only because it's a big distraction to debears, who has to keep talking about it, and it's not helping anyone And yet I'm still your top scum read and iamperfection is still the only other player you'll really talk about. You haven't commented on anything significant (neither have I yet, but fuck it, you're already voting me) I dont give a shit what your IRL issues are, same as you probably dont care why I was gone. I care that you claim that there are no better cases than the one on me when you have no new information and are just stuck on the fact that I'm afk and therefore avoiding you. What's more, you aren't even pushing me as your scum read. Yes this is an OMGUS vote. ##Vote: debearsAm I going to need to pull a BH and shoot my load earl--I mean sift through my own meta to find examples of me being a jackass? Btw debears, why in the hell were you unable/unwilling to comment on BH's claim? On November 15 2012 06:27 Hopeless1der wrote:
In response to Z-Bo's case on me:
- No comment on BH should still hold merit as an attack against debears, especially if used as a contributing factor to my own scumminess.
Meta read - Earlier you said my meta this game was comparable to LVII. You've 180'd that read. I have no conclusion here, I'm just pointing it out.
Other points from meta: Me referring back to previous cases. I had an actual case to refer back to, and I was also much more convinced by that case. This game, we have me being inactive, Cross being modkillable the first 24 hours or so, thrawn afk, DP afk, BH trolling. Lots of things that just sucked bag. In LVII, we have Matt claim scum super early and the ensuing discussions were getting excessively redundant until Palmar came in and confirmed Matt was fakeclaiming. Before that, I was trying to focus the thread a little. This game is no where near as out of control as that situation was and also (IRL bullshit that no one cares about)
Since BH has claimed, I find debears to be incredibly scummy, and Marv made a point of articulating already. I felt he was scummy before from the way he attacked me for lecturing and it being anti-town. I also felt his meta/smurf's are unreadable comments were contradictory and he was twisting words to make a case on me based on very little information. However, I was explicitly told to drop my suspicions because they were a) poorly thought out and b) distracting debears from helping town.
He hasn't helped town. Hapa's case on debears is spot on (in my heavily biased opinion) and I don't want to lynch anyone else right now. His only reason for voting debears is that debears made a read on him and voted him. And then there is this: Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 09:21 Hopeless1der wrote:
@Marv's case on Z-Boson - Quite frankly, if it saves me, I'll vote Z-boson, otherwise my vote stays parked on debears. I still think Z-Bo is town though, I just happen to know I'm town. I don't like this at all. Hopeless clearly states that he views ZB is town, earlier in the game ZB makes a small meta case and hopeless doesn't vote him (rightfully so) - but now he will throw his vote on ZB??? You don't scum hunt at all, say you view ZB as town but are willing to vote for him, and keep your vote parked on debears all game solely because debears made a read on you and threw his vote your way. This is not town oriented play in my opinion. Then there is the day 1 voting. ZB was one of the potential lynch candidates and at a point it seemed he was goign to be the lynch (with 8 votes on his head no less!): Note that this is right before the wild swing of votes to Hapa, so had that note happened it was ZB getting lynched. + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 10:55 Dandel Ion wrote:votecount:DarthPunk (2): thrawn2112, KickstartZ-BosoN (8): Clarity_nl, marvellosity, DarthPunk, Crossfire99, Blazinghand, strongandbig, iamperfection, Hapahaulidebears (1): Hopeless1derHopeless (2): Z-BosoN, debearsCurrently, Z-BosoN is set to be lynched!
Full version (disregarded):+ Show Spoiler +debears (2): Z-Boson, strongandbig, Hapahauli, Hopeless1nder, marvellosity, strongandbig
DarthPunk (7): Hapahauli Hapahauli, Clarity_nl, thrawn2112, Blazinghand, iamperfection, Blazinghand, Blazinghand, Hapahauli, debears, Z-BosoN, Kickstart, debears
Hopeless1der (0): debears, marvellosity, marvellosity, Z-BosoN, Kickstart, debears, debears
Z-BosoN (4): Blazinghand, iamperfection, Blazinghand, marvellosity, Clarity_nl, marvellosity, DarthPunk, Crossfire99
Hapahauli (0): iamperfection, strongandbig. Kickstart, Blazinghand
Blazinghand (0): iamperfection, Z-BosoN, marvellosity, iamperfection, strongandbig, Crossfire99
iamperfection (0): Hapahauli, Bloatinghand
thrawn2112 (0): Hapahauli
strongandbig (0): DarthPunk, Z-BosoN, Clarity_nl, Hapahauli, DarthPunk
Clarity_nl (0): DarthPunk
marvellosity (0): debears
Crossfire99 (0): marvellosity, debears, Blazinghand
Not voting (0): Looked bad for our pal ZB so this is "dying post": + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 10:55 Z-BosoN wrote:
LYNCH HAPAHAULI.
LYNCH BLAZINGHAND. when he is alive day 3.
marv, hope you learn you are not the fucking god of mafia, and see that meta reads are only worth it if it isn't fucking obvious stylistic proven logical and pre-claimed reasons. Turns out he was right (halfway at least but I suspect 100% right ^^). So in summation I've always felt pretty good about ZB and then the D1 lynch just solidified it. Regarding DarthPunkBasically I agree with and echo the idea that when DP was set to be lynched, he did an extremely good job of showing that he was town. And an interesting note is that like ZB, when DP thought he was the lynch, he names Hapa and BH aswell : + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 10:43 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:37 iamperfection wrote:On November 15 2012 10:35 DarthPunk wrote:On November 15 2012 10:34 iamperfection wrote:
DP DO NOT RUN AWAY IF YOUR TOWN. Give reads on the people voting on you. I just did. more How about this. I was probably not going to be lynched until two of the best town players I know who are very rarely wrong about scum reads lead the most retarded wagon in the world on me which is wrong. So either they are worse than I thought. Can't read me at all or are scum. Hapa is not playing the same as GSL he is playing worse. Hi scum game is townie though so be wary of that. But he is not giving the confident and often correct reads taht he usually gives as town. He is starting up a stupid fucking wagon that he is usually wary of as town. Hapa is like the fucking divine presence of level headedness usually but this band wagon is not it. BH I have never played with before. But he is reading scum into things that should not be read as scummy. SO he might just be worse than I thought. Marv is actually fucking right although rightly confused but seems townie from genuinely wanting to figure shit out rather than leap onto a retarded wagon. Also. How much fucking conviction does BH have in his reads when I am so scummy but then he insta votes for a fucking Coin toss. BH is scum. Because he doesn't give a fuck about the lynch as long as he lynches a townie. So those are my two strong town reads out of the lynch. Again the others I showed as green or did not is only an indication of how I viewed the lynch (some of the people I left unmarked I feel are very likely town for example). As for the people I had marked as SCUM: Well, Hapa doesn't need much explaining :D (GJ town!). Regarding Hopeless1derBefore the lynch I posted my read of him, and so far it all remains relevant: + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 09:57 Kickstart wrote:Regarding Z-BosonI am not comfortable with a lynch on ZB. So he is playing differently and posting less, but when I take a look at his filter I see some very lengthy and thought out posts that offer good analysis. I don't think that lynching him due to him posting differently this game is fair, especially when his posts are pretty significant (I said earlier that even though his filter wasn't large, every post contributed something). I take Hapas word that before this game even started he talked with ZB and ZB discussed wanting to change his posting style a bit (though a skype log would be nice!). Why lynch someone who has changed their posting style when you could be lynching someone who isn't being pro-town at all: Regarding Hopeless1derLook at his filter, there is NO attempt to find scum, the only person he gos after is debears, but only after debears went after him. The first half of his filter is talk about people being afk and/or smurfs - this really doesn't help at all. And his post where he reads debears: + Show Spoiler +On November 14 2012 22:16 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 14:54 debears wrote:
For all you who think me being afk is a scumtell, which you guys are retarded if you do
Let me just say this once. Fuck off debears. Nothing personal, but in all seriousness OMGUS. I'm still your scum read because I've done nothing since you laid into me for 'lecturing town'. If you still want to harp on that chord, you're not being a good little townie. I was afk for longer than you were, and you have nothing new to post in the thread. I'll lay this out for you. This is the post I was "lecturing" about: Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 10:49 DarthPunk wrote:On November 13 2012 10:44 marvellosity wrote:
you can't active lurk in a game that's less than 2 hours old, numbnuts.
If anyone's 'active lurking' it's me. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Don't shut people down who are obviously trying their best to scum hunt and contribute. You are only going to discourage those things. Or is that what you want? I was not lecturing everyone, I was responding to a single post and listing multiple examples of less than stellar reasons to vote for someone. I was told to drop it with you so you could focus on the rest of the game instead, because I was distracting you from being useful. Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 00:17 marvellosity wrote:
Hopeless, I think you're making too much of that. The bit you bold says "was" - past tense, that was his stance previously (when he'd missed my Crossfire post).
Like debears said just now there's not a lot to say about Crossfire otherwise, you can't really have a stance on someone who hasn't posted yet.
The whole issue is overblown and should be dropped. If only because it's a big distraction to debears, who has to keep talking about it, and it's not helping anyone And yet I'm still your top scum read and iamperfection is still the only other player you'll really talk about. You haven't commented on anything significant (neither have I yet, but fuck it, you're already voting me) I dont give a shit what your IRL issues are, same as you probably dont care why I was gone. I care that you claim that there are no better cases than the one on me when you have no new information and are just stuck on the fact that I'm afk and therefore avoiding you. What's more, you aren't even pushing me as your scum read. Yes this is an OMGUS vote. ##Vote: debearsAm I going to need to pull a BH and shoot my load earl--I mean sift through my own meta to find examples of me being a jackass? Btw debears, why in the hell were you unable/unwilling to comment on BH's claim? On November 15 2012 06:27 Hopeless1der wrote:
In response to Z-Bo's case on me:
- No comment on BH should still hold merit as an attack against debears, especially if used as a contributing factor to my own scumminess.
Meta read - Earlier you said my meta this game was comparable to LVII. You've 180'd that read. I have no conclusion here, I'm just pointing it out.
Other points from meta: Me referring back to previous cases. I had an actual case to refer back to, and I was also much more convinced by that case. This game, we have me being inactive, Cross being modkillable the first 24 hours or so, thrawn afk, DP afk, BH trolling. Lots of things that just sucked bag. In LVII, we have Matt claim scum super early and the ensuing discussions were getting excessively redundant until Palmar came in and confirmed Matt was fakeclaiming. Before that, I was trying to focus the thread a little. This game is no where near as out of control as that situation was and also (IRL bullshit that no one cares about)
Since BH has claimed, I find debears to be incredibly scummy, and Marv made a point of articulating already. I felt he was scummy before from the way he attacked me for lecturing and it being anti-town. I also felt his meta/smurf's are unreadable comments were contradictory and he was twisting words to make a case on me based on very little information. However, I was explicitly told to drop my suspicions because they were a) poorly thought out and b) distracting debears from helping town.
He hasn't helped town. Hapa's case on debears is spot on (in my heavily biased opinion) and I don't want to lynch anyone else right now. His only reason for voting debears is that debears made a read on him and voted him. And then there is this: Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 09:21 Hopeless1der wrote:
@Marv's case on Z-Boson - Quite frankly, if it saves me, I'll vote Z-boson, otherwise my vote stays parked on debears. I still think Z-Bo is town though, I just happen to know I'm town. I don't like this at all. Hopeless clearly states that he views ZB is town, earlier in the game ZB makes a small meta case and hopeless doesn't vote him (rightfully so) - but now he will throw his vote on ZB??? You don't scum hunt at all, say you view ZB as town but are willing to vote for him, and keep your vote parked on debears all game solely because debears made a read on you and threw his vote your way. This is not town oriented play in my opinion. I just feel that his anti-town tone has continued on through the lynch and after. As for the lynch itself hopeless NEVER stuck his neck out, he constantly stayed on debears the entire time (not that hapa temporarily switch over to debears apparantlytrying to start a wagon on him?): + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 10:50 Hapahauli wrote:##UnvoteYeah marv's right here - DP's being pretty townie going down. Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:46 debears wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote Hopeless
Plz for the love of god vote hopeless ppl Can we please lynch this guy? Please? ##Vote Debears The only thing that gives me a bit of reservation is that hopeless could have saved hapa had he switched his vote off of debears and put it on ZB at any time. But then I don't really think anyone was expecting hapa to get lynched. Regarding strongandbigJust take a look at this guys filter and then couple that with his votes and tell me it isn't suspicious as hell. SnB, like hopeless, never sticks his neck out on any reads and just agrees or disagrees with other peoples points. Couple that with his votes (ignore the hapa vote, it was at the VERY start of the game and it was a complete joke vote; he only votes for debears, blazinghand, and ZB). He was also oddly quiet during the pile onto hapa - while being there to laugh the most and mkae jokes afterwards?? Some reservations I have about snb is that he has gone after both hapa and hopeless postings (hapa who we know is scum and hopeless who I have the strongest read on at the moment), but scum dissing on scum isn't unheard of. Another reservation is that he has gone after BH hardcore, who I would be just as willing to lunch at this point as snb (though I would still rather go after my top read atm - hopeless). Anyways there you have it, hopefully night actions reveal some more stuffs.
What I didn't link in his filter - This post + Show Spoiler +
On November 15 2012 11:20 Kickstart wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 16:52 Kickstart wrote:Here is why I have doubts about Hapa. Hapa starts off by being the first one to cast a "pointless vote" at the start of the day. + Show Spoiler +On November 13 2012 09:25 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 09:15 Clarity_nl wrote:
I don't think anyone will be against millers claiming and a lurker lynch policy. If they are they should speak up. Otherwise we really don't need to mention it again. Oh hum I need something more controversial then. Howabout the lynch DarthPunk policy? I have a hard time reading him and rolls scum 66% of the time when I'm in game with him. Sample size be damned! ##Vote DarthPunk I see that several people did this and were joking but I don't like it much and Hapa is the first to do it, which is even more interesting because soon after he states that the random vote gambit is far overused ;/ : + Show Spoiler +On November 13 2012 09:37 Hapahauli wrote:
@iamp
The "random vote" gambit has been far overused. I'm not a fan.
I'd comment on your post, but I'm not even sure what you're talking about there. He then unvotes DP just to revote him: + Show Spoiler +On November 13 2012 10:22 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 10:15 DarthPunk wrote:On November 13 2012 10:01 strongandbig wrote:
if zb was scum he would have made a much longer post
##vote: hapahauli
im down with that iamperfection thinkamajig So retarded. ##Vote: Strongandbig You're voting him 'cause the post is retarded? And not because it's scummy? The last time you pulled that, you were scum (Mafia LVII). ##Vote DarthPunk('fo real this time) Which he unvotes again -_- And there is the whole SnB bandwagon that he jumps on: + Show Spoiler +On November 13 2012 10:54 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 10:50 debears wrote:
Does S&B normally act like this?
Just curious :D
Feel free to answer that S&B Well it's weird for sure. I'm used to seeing scum SnB be a lot more "wordy" when he posts. Atleast this was the case in Mafia LVII and Death Note Mini. Howwwwwweva, this post really sets off my scum alarms: Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 10:48 strongandbig wrote:On November 13 2012 10:01 debears wrote:On November 13 2012 09:59 Hapahauli wrote:On November 13 2012 09:50 DarthPunk wrote:On November 13 2012 09:47 Hapahauli wrote:On November 13 2012 09:44 DarthPunk wrote:On November 13 2012 09:41 Z-BosoN wrote:Hello, sirs. First of all I´d like to claim miller. There are two very viable options now, regarding my alignment on this game. I am fakeclaiming as mafia. I am in fact a miller. My claim here would be fairly risky as scum, and as town it makes more sense to claim so as to not waste detective checks on me, but of course this is WIFOM. I hope to show my alignment in this game through brilliant, stellar townie play, and hope town uses this factor and this factor alone when scouting my alignment. The only thing I hope to achieve with this claim is to not be checked by an eventual cop, as that check will be guaranteed to turn red. That being said, I look forward to playing this game. Lot's of familiar faces around, and I am curious to hear more from people I haven't played yet. Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out HI ZB <3. Yeah ZB will figure me out If I am scum, and Vice Versa. Hapa will figure marv out and marv will figure everyone out. GG scummers But what if me, ZB, and marv are all scum o_O Then Blazinghand, Debears and I will rip you all a new arsehole. <3 Oh noes! Well fortunately I'm not scum. + Show Spoiler +On November 13 2012 09:55 iamperfection wrote:On November 13 2012 09:52 Hapahauli wrote:On November 13 2012 09:45 iamperfection wrote:
i guess theirs no reason not to believe zbos right? has to be to risky to do if he was scum right. Woah woah hold-up. I'm not liking how you're trusting this claim right away. Claiming miller is a pretty much a riskless play here. We don't know how many millers are in the setup, and as far as I'm concerned, the claim is null until Z-Bo proves otherwise. its what i think so whatever. Zbos scum is gone put himself out there like that i dont think so. It's not "so whatever" - I'm pretty skeptical how you're so willing to think Z-Bo is town off what looks to me like a completely null action. Hapa, last time you did that little spoiler trick (GsL III), you were the role that you put in the spoiler. Here, you put bowser. Now why would you put bowser out of all the scum roles? It seems to me like you were actively thinking of bowser, which you shouldn't be if you are town. I would expect you to put a town role in that spoiler this is stupid He calls debears argument/suspicion on me stupid, when he himself has his vote on me. It's not consistent at all with his suspicions so far, and I can't wrap my head around a townie thought process here. ## Vote StrongandBig At least he stays away from voting based on the VT claim post but he starts out by inferring that if SnB were scum he would be posting differently and then votes him anyways based on the "this is stupid" comment (which to be fair to SnB I agree with him, the whole point about putting your role in a spoiler is silly). Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 11:47 Kickstart wrote:
Wowzers that was a lot to catch up on, I really tried to post before heading off to school but there was way too much to read and process. I was 100% down with lynching BH... and then he claims jk. I still don't like his posting before or after the claim and think that the claim did no one other than himself any good. I would love to flip him just to see, because the way I see it, at worst he is scum trying to save himself (but as stated before that would be REALLY reckless) and at best he is now deadweight.
For me the best thing I feel I have to go off of is looking at peoples votes and trying to pick out the scumvotes, and I still think the SnB bandwagon had some scum attached to it (who were basically forced to switch their votes after it being called out for what it was). Top scum read for me is still Hapa. I think he hopped on the SnB wagon, then tried to start an iamp one (with BH, so that is part of the reason I was 100% down for lynching BH and if he flipped red I would have insta voted Hapa - but then BH claimed so....), and now he is voting for debears with everyone else.
I suppose it is time to put my vote where my mouth is, but I would like to hear other peoples thoughts on Hapa. If most others are getting scum read on him (which some people have already posted that they are) I would like to hear why, likewise if someone thinks hes town I want to hear why.
##Vote: Hapahauli
and @Hapa
No hard feelings, you have been very kind to me in your posts which I do appreciate but I can't let that influence my reads. So were my points at the time valid? I'm not sure what to think of this because it seems that I had it right but at the time got no support. Did I not provide enough analysis/reasoning? Was it just unconvincing? ;/
- I also don't like this post + Show Spoiler +
On November 18 2012 12:58 Kickstart wrote:
Man shit I'm sorry I slept right through the lynch, but I wouldn't of changed my vote off of SnB anyways. I've stated all along that my strongest town read was on ZB so I was not going to vote for him this early on - seems I was right :S. Going forward I think the order of our lynches should be:
1st or 2nd: SNB and DJO (SnB first, still the person I find scummiest)
3rd: Clarity (though I don't have a strong scum read on him, I haven't read him as town all game and all the other players I feel are more town than him).
4th: BH (because if we get rid of those 3 and no new developments are made, it is time to get rid of BH finally for his shenanigans).
The points against him are not strong and I hope that he can provide good explanations for them. I think that he got lazy during D2 and this is something I can understand given the flips so far. My conclusion is that he is a first time player, which I'm leaning town on, and that it could be quite difficult for him to keep up with all what happens in this very active game but I hope than he can provide good play as he did during D1 and I would be satisfied with that.
Way to say something without saying anything at all.
Here is why I think he is town
Here is why he could be scum
All in all I think he is a new player.
Like wtf?!?!? Not contributing not scum hunting and a wishy-washy nothing of a first case 5 pages into his filter.
More setup speculation.
Useless shit like this comprises 99% of his activity. On November 18 2012 18:50 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 18:18 debears wrote:On November 18 2012 17:59 Djodref wrote:
@ debears
I disagree, it could be a good strategy for a possible SK to retain his night kills until we manage to find the last scum.
What does make you think that a possible SK would kill tonight ? 1) Assuming that the SK isn't hopeless, he could put doubt on hopeless' claim. 2) it's what, 8/7 town to 1 scum/sk or 1 scum and sk 3) The longer the game goes on, the harder it is to conceal a guilty conscience/push your agenda as sk/mafia @ debears1)That's actually a good point. I don't think that hopeless could be SK even with another kill because he killed Crossfire and that would have been against a SK interest. But I've just realized that there was no way for a SK Hopeless to know for sure that Cross was scum when he decided to kill. By the way, would you yourself doubt Hopeless claim if we have 2 kills again tonight ? I remember that Hopeless was on your radar during D1. 2)That's also a good point. But it depends on the strategy you would choose as a SK. I don't know about it... 3)I disagree with this one because a possible SK would not know who the last scum is better than us. He would have no other thing to do than to scumhunt hard while not killing anyone and hope to survive until lylo. You don't have any guilty conscience if you didn't kill anyone, right ?
Talks about set-up and breadcrumbs..
ZZZZ
On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote:
Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts.
I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have.
MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play.
Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you.
##Vote S&B
Look at his vote on S&B no real reason. Only that he is voting BH someone who he had just tunnelled like forever.
NO case. No scum hunting and a vote on the popular candidate.
ZZZ more setup speculation. there is literally ZERO scumhunting in his filter.
On November 20 2012 03:25 Djodref wrote:
On a personal note, I've like S&B defense during D2, maybe because I'm more emotional than rational, so I'm not totally sure of S&B being the last scum yet even if he is the right person to lynch at the moment. I'm very curious to see what are going to be his next contributions.
I'll accept people getting lazy if they can provide me with a case that totally proves that S&B is the last scum.
What the is he saying here? That's right. Nothing at all apart from distancing himself from a mislynch.
On November 20 2012 03:35 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 03:22 Clarity_nl wrote:
I don't have anything against you. That's not how this game works.
I'm trying to ignore thrawn's stuff altogether but it's obviously in the back of my head. Although the setup speculation helped it really got on my nerves and it seemed to be all you were willing to talk about.
I haven't made a case on you because I haven't been focusing on you much, and there's nothing that stands out as inherently scummy. But look at the players we'll have left after snb gets lynched (assuming he flips town). To me everyone on that list is rather townie, and you are probably the least towny out of them atm.
Your argument that darth hasn't taken advantage of his position can be said about hopeless and kickstart as well. @ ClarityThe setup speculation allows us to have 100% confirmed blues right now. And the last scum is not able to fakeclaim if get close to his sorry ass... Honestly, if Hopeless was not a confirmed Vig, I would be all over him right now. Regarding Kickstart, we need to give him more room so he can post more. Also I think we should listen to what he is saying. First games are always depressing when every other player is coming at you for the scummy things that you inevitably post and never acknowledge what you are saying. I understand that he could get bored in his position. But Darthpunk is not in the same position as Hopeless and Kickstart. He has won his Acme game so he should have more time to spare with us.
More of this shit. This is like his whole filter. talk about set-up call out some lynch bait. Rinse and repeat.
NO scumhunting. NO real contributions. NO reason for Voting. NO Impetus to find out who the scum are.
Acting as if he is contributing when in fact his filter contains nothing.
##Vote: Djodref
[/QUOTE]
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On November 20 2012 21:22 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 21:18 DarthPunk wrote:
Djo. Explain in your own words why clarity and Perfection are town reads. Kickstart and iamperfection. Get off my back and start reading the thread more carefully. Remove you confirmation bias goggles by the way...
Kickstart and perfection then. Why are they town?
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His setup speculation ended up contributing though, in a big way.
Your case is such cherry picking. You say he's not scum hunting but he was tunneling blazing.
You say giving a scumread and townreads is bad when there is 1 scum left? If he is scum giving too many town reads would be bad for him since he'd have to flip flop eventually.
I'm really sad at the level of hypocrisy everyone has this game. Darth and hopeless are in such a brilliant position to just look for scum and contribute, but then they don't and eventually make cases about how others haven't contributed. But they have.
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EPT
