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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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On November 12 2012 21:19 DarthPunk wrote: I would love to play in a pure Goon/VT setup one day. I dislike blue roles in general. You are discouraged from being active early and in fact want to look a little scummy so that scum keep you around. I dunno. I just think it would be fun to figure stuff out with nothing but discussion. As a blue I play just like a VT, and the blue stuff is just icing. It'd be such a give-away for scum if I were quiet in a game lol The thing you're describing is "mountainous" setup and if you want I could host one one day. I find blue roles and the setup in general tend to add to the discussion, rather than take away from it. You'd probably just be best off avoiding [T] games and sticking to [N][M] games or [N] games. | ||
Blazinghand
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I might even consider it the best Mafia game I've played in. I died early in Aperture so yeah, definitely this is the game of Mafia i've enjoyed best | ||
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On November 12 2012 21:47 drazak wrote: From talking to BH about setups and stuff ad infinitum on irc, I think he just likes hosting different setups and seeing what happens. TBH I kind of cohosted this one so I can host a mafia online like how we do irl, no flips, only roles are medic and dt, town kp is town/12 rounded up, mafia kp is mafia/2 and all mafia are goons. I don't think I'd ever be comfortable playing in a no flip game. I'm sure it could be balanced, but I enjoy flips a great deal-- it is fun to be vindicated, or to find out how horribly wrong you were. Especially mid game when you have to keep on playing | ||
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On November 13 2012 11:52 DarthPunk wrote: Yep. I would not. I would not vote day one for Hapa or marv either. Unless there was something super obvious I would not vote for them. But I do not think that would happen because they are all good players and that is why I respect them I suppose. Honestly I think it's bad to tie yourself down with ideas like that. If someone's playing scummy, they're playing scummy. My scum play isn't amazing, but due to my extreme sex appeal and enormous intelligence and penis, I can assure you that it's improved a great deal. Mostly it's due to my large penis-- it is quite a monstrosity. It works as a pad, even. Back on topic, don't feel like you can't vote or push people because of possible contributions. This kind of play is lazy and puts preconceived notions of what certain players are worth ahead of behavioral analysis. Someone voting for me because they legitimately think I'm scum and they have the cojones to do it is infinitely more helpful to town than someone not voting me because I'm a sexy baller. That being said, iamperfection's vote is pretty typical iamperfection throwing his vote around trying to pressure people but not doing it effectively. He needs to realize that you should vote people when you want to lynch them, or else you won't be taken seriously. | ||
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ZB says this: On November 13 2012 10:04 Z-BosoN wrote: For someone who is analytical enough to attempt to judge marv's early game reactions, he's sure not being analytical about my claim. This smells scummy to me. and that's basically wrong. The fact that debears essentially ignores ZB's claim (which is the right move-- it's clearly a null tell) is COMPLETELY normal. And look at this sentence from ZB-- it's a meta case about debears comparing meta from PREVIOUSLY IN THE THREAD. That's not meta. That's bullshitting. Z-B iquickly moves over to another shitcase before peacing out of the thread: On November 13 2012 10:13 Z-BosoN wrote: Glad I beat you to it. Interesting way to claim VT though. Actually I find that suspicious as fuck. ##Unvote ##Vote strongandbig Debears, I hope your posting improves throughout this game. Also, what do you mean by "that argument again?". S&B's "accidental" "vt claim" (both of those are in question) could be suspicious. But Z-B doesn't explain why. He doesn't set up a scum motive. He just slaps down a vote and bails. This is a chance to look like a townie wagon-started without doing analysis or writing the kind of long posts that could reveal his own scum motives. When Hapa rightly calls him on it: First off, a crap explanation. Everyone wants to appear as town cause getting lynched hurts your side no matter whether you're town or scum. A more correct explanation would talk about how VTs wouldn't claim VT because it narrows down potential blue snipes, and how he believes S&B was serious and not joking in that post. A town player would lay out his own thought process right away so that others understand what he's thinking. He'd respond to s&B and push the wagon, not just slap down a vote and a bad explanation. ZB is setting up to look good as a wagon starter (since scum don't like to stick their necks out) and appear to contribute to town, but if you read his astonishingly short filter, it's clear he's not actually helping. He's flinging shit at the wall and hoping it sticks. Let's splatter this guy. ##vote: Z-Boson | ||
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your vote on S&B right now is bad | ||
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Read and comment on my ZB case. It's not worthless like your crap vote on S&B: I actually want to lynch ZB, and ZB is actually scum. be useful and vote to lynch someone, not to "pressure" them. Or if you're gonna pressure someone, at least don't tell him you're doing it. ._. | ||
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On November 13 2012 16:49 DarthPunk wrote: Is the reason for that his play is too 'risky' or too 'scummy' to be scum play? Because that is what I got from waht thrawn says and you just agreed with it. If that is the case then I'm not buying what you are selling. there's no such thing as too scummy for scum play | ||
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On November 13 2012 16:57 DarthPunk wrote: Ok then can you explain to me why only idiots and scum are voting for S&B. Cause I can't see it. cause he's town. it's not my job to defend the man, just to point out the scum on his wagon. read his filter and tell me that's scum S&B seriously dude | ||
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yeah I went there I've been sitting on that joke for so long | ||
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On November 13 2012 17:04 Clarity_nl wrote: Why is it like pulling teeth to get answers out of you? Lol say something about ZB plz | ||
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On November 13 2012 17:06 DarthPunk wrote: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. BTW What is a Begger man Mr. Caos? That was breadcrumbing a night check. I believe I was a watcher that game, and it was a reference to a spy novel by john le carre. I got back no results so I crumbed it as Beggar man, who WAS NOT the mole in Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy. | ||
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On November 13 2012 17:06 DarthPunk wrote: So it's meta? Well I have only played scum with him so I wouldn't know. I have no further comments on S&B as long as your only comments on my case on ZB are peripheral to whether or not you agree with it. And really, the S&B wagon is irrelevant and won't roll across the line because we're lynching ZB today. S&B isn't scum. | ||
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On November 13 2012 17:09 DarthPunk wrote: Finally. That has bugged me since forever. It was the weirdest thing and I just couldn't figure it out. My mind is at ease. I typically don't explain breadcrumbs if they don't become relevant (as was the case in that game) in case I get an opportunity to re-use them. Making up crumbs is hard work! | ||
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On November 13 2012 17:10 Clarity_nl wrote: I wish he posted more. It seems he was around for about 2 hours but he never really said anything of substance. The only original thought he had so far was his debears vote, which he quickly withdrew. The vote made no sense to begin with. "Debears didn't write a paragraph about a miller claim day 1, that's scummy!" ?? His miller claim makes sense, there's been no other miller claims. The only thing I don't like about it is that he explained his possible motivations as scum and town to claim miller, which isn't necessary. Your turn. zZz you think he's scummy or not? | ||
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On November 02 2012 00:32 strongandbig wrote: Blazinghand, I am not saying you are violating the "mafia rules" or being "immoral" as the mafia community would see it. Churlish is a better adjective to describe your behavior than "cheating" would be. Dastardly, you're not being. Essentially, I think that "we joined this game to have fun with minigames in a mafia context, and just ignoring them isn't in the spirit of the game." For sure, you're well within your rights and the game rules to do what you've been doing, but I think the game would be more fun all around if we were all trying to follow the minigame rules and I hope the incentives to do so are stronger next time around. Going on to Adam. His posts this game "sound weirder" or "sound less genuine" to me than anyone else's except perhaps crossfire, who's playing the mad poet or something like that. It's hard to say whether that's because he's having a hard time posting naturally within the context of the minigame, or if it's because he is uncomfortable being scum or because he's not "being genuine" (I think that's how Sandroba described his scumhunting in some recent game I was following, reading people's posts and looking for people not being genuine etc). Just read through his filter a couple of times, it's not very long. K, here's one thing - he starts off with his "meta argument" on BKE, but then drops the read for no reason when he moves on to mementoss. Later, he says "BKE isn't scum to him," I would very much like to know what in BKE's filter gave him that impression because (as I outlined in my previous post) BKE's filter looks pretty terrible to me, and the worst parts are the parts that came after Adam's "meta read". Mementoss case, I find pretty unpersuasive, I think that comparing pre-game and in-game enthusiasm levels is a valid tactic. "Not posting much of value" or "not having strong opinions" can be a decent case to make if it's clear and pronounced but it's hardly unique to Mementoss at the moment, I would contend that BKE, Djagulingu, maybe hopeless also fall into that category. Oh, something else - he promises very early on to be like super active, but he is far less active than many other people. Putting the shoe on the other foot, however, his claims about the meta component to your case are pretty compelling. Qualifying that - I know your case is not mainly based on meta anymore. Really, however, unless you disagree with him that his more recent games are different from your claim about his meta, it should be recognized that that element of the case on him is weak. Something else you argue - he did originally take a position against BKE and later backtrack on it. Though I've said above that I don't understand why he backtracked, and though I really want to hear his reasoning, and though I think it's scummy to backtrack from one position and jump on another one without explaining yourself, I do think that at least taking a position is better than not taking a position, even if there is scummy backtracking. Ultimately, here's where I stand. Voting for BKE because I think he's scummier - his positions are less both in number and firmness, and there's also the factor of him doing what I believe is "smokescreening" by talking so much about "how important it is for people to vote in both threads" and then about "how people didn't understand what he meant when he was talking about how important it is for people to vote in both threads", neither of which matter very much. With that said, however, I think a lot of what you say about Adam makes sense, and I wouldn't strenuously object to voting him if that's necessary to get a majority. so yeah looks town to me | ||
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or they are scum udddies dont worry rhough he is scrub | ||
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Marv you dobt know me man yku dont know me | ||
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On November 14 2012 01:02 iamperfection wrote: do you know any of his scum games? the search function isn't helping me find all his games. idiot cop mafia and Resistance tunnel rats Mafia off the top of my head. | ||
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* ZB | ||
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[b]##unvote ##vote iamperfdction/b] | ||
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On November 14 2012 03:00 marvellosity wrote: I think iamp is town. If we lynch him today for what he's done so far, I quit mafia. this kind of hostage-taking isnt cool dude. | ||
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On November 14 2012 05:25 iamperfection wrote: why dont you wait until you get home and put some proper thoughts out there instead of this crap. Tell me what you really think is hapas case on me or do you change your mind give me the why or dont say anything at all. man everyones so negative | ||
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On November 14 2012 05:58 Clarity_nl wrote: Rather odd to be cracking jokes and saying you have null reads when you don't have the time to post, unless you're trying to seem active. spoken like a guy who doesn't know how to crack jokes way easier to crack jokes than to contribute, dont see why it's odd | ||
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its a legitimate point | ||
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On November 14 2012 06:04 Clarity_nl wrote: @ Blazing Well I'm working under the assumption that it's a time issue, being in two active mafia games. Cracking jokes is something you do on the side. You play mafia to play mafia, socializing is nice but it's not why I play mafia at least, guess I can't speak for others. If all you're doing is cracking jokes then that's anti-town, you don't agree? If you're going to be around to post 3 pages of filter without content, why not post 1 page of content instead, if you're town. Absolutely, but cracking jokes isn't a scum tell any more than being inactive in general is. Town players play anti-town all the time. Someone who's posting but with zero content is "active lurking" which is functionally equivalent to lurking-- just as scummy, no more, no less. | ||
Blazinghand
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On November 14 2012 06:04 iamperfection wrote: or you could do what your doing right now ## Vote Blazinghand I want want your thinking of me and zbos now in a proper fashion or in my view your just claiming scum Don't come back until you do Well, I'm home now so I'll write a post with some proper thoughts. And I see no reason to leave the thread just because you've told me to. | ||
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On November 14 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote: It seems to me people are thinking too much of my posts, expecting some sort of brilliant day one cases. Disagreeing with my logic does not make me scum. That should pretty much handle the vast chunk of shit I got the last few pages. There are, however, some things I'd like to point out during these last events, though: First thing to note is how uncharacteristically bad BH's case is against me. He's basically saying I'm bullshitting with every post I make. While I agree my posts are not the bestest they can be, I'm not sure why that implies I'm scum. He says this one thing in particular though: Note two things. 1) He's saying I'm setting up to look good as a wagon starter. This is balls-to-the wall dumb. How am I a wagon starter just for having the first vote? Also, as he himself noted, I did not write a full essay regarding why I think SnB is scum. I voted for him for implying that he is town, and that's basically it. If I wanted to become a "wagon starter", that's obviously the exact opposite of what I should do, I would make a much more elaborate case. Ironically, I could say the same about BH and his case on me, and with much more validity, as he actually goes deep in his case on me, and seems somehow certain of my alignment, something which he leaves very clear later on: Now, I'm not scum, so in my pov he is pretty much full of shit with this remark. There's a difference between bad logic, the thing he is calling me on bullshitting, and actual bullshitting, which is what this "wagon starting" remark actually is. You were starting a weak wagon. This is the easiest way to start a wagon as scum. You wanted to take a position that LOOKED good, which is started a wagon, without the commitment and risk that comes with it. Something you could back off of or move away from easily-- and look how you did. It was a vote with a ghost of a case rather than a real one. And you backtracked it quite well, but the point stands. On November 14 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote: 2) He's saying my filter is short, and it's clear I'm not helping. Again, completely ironic and hypocritical. He has only three completely useless posts up until this one: The second paragraph is completely fluffy, he's not actually saying anything. That being said, I would like everyone to pay attention to the bolded on the third paragraph. He heavily, heavily thrashes me for being weak on my vote on SnB. Let's ignore all the others, especially DP (who voted TWICE on SnB, without saying anything). Let's focus on what he says here on iamp - and this is important. He says that iamp is throwing his vote around to pressure people, and that's all A-ok. Yeah it was based on iamp being generally a bad player but there's also a difference between starting a wagon with no case and jumping on one with no case. In retrospect iamp was not immune to blame, but saying something like "he didn't attack iamperfection hard enough" or "one paragraph in this post was a bit fluffy" (when in fact it was not, i'm trying to help the players in this game play well) isn't a legitimate critique of my posting. On November 14 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote: Now pause and think here. I'll quote what he said about that on me for clarity: and Now contrast that to what he said about iamp's voting. On iamp, he is completely casual regarding his voting. On his case on me, however, he's aggressive and incisive , as you can clearly tell from the quotes I posted above. Why does this make him scummy? Because it shows clear signs of fabrication, as one can easily infer from the quotes above. His views on "casual voting" are in complete contrast. One more thing, that I ignored earlier. If he feels so strongly about me voting SnB without giving any reasoning or thoughts, why isn't he going after DP, who's actually done that not once, but TWICE?? Townie Motivation: none. Scum motivation: he feels threatened that I have claimed miller and people are not showing signs of doubt on my claim. You've made a good case for why DP and iamperfection are also scummy, but nothing here about why you're not. In retrospect, I shouldn't have implicitly rule out the possibility of you AND iamperfection being scum together. On November 14 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote: tl;dr 1) Blazinghand's case on me is uncharacteristically bad. It's also not consistent with his townie play on Liquid City. Look at his progression on Shiaopi, who was incidentally also making uncharacteristically bad cases as well. 2) Blazinghand is being supremely inconsistent, contradictory and hypocritical of what he defines as scum-motivated and what not, showing signs of someone who is merely fabricating cases, as detailed above. I tried to be as clear as possible here, because I don't want people to feel like this is just OMGUS. My votes on SnB and debears were more pressure votes, as if that wasn't pretty much clear. This one on blazinghand, is not. I think he's the best lynch so far, as everything I've stated seem to point on him being scum. ##Unvote ##Vote Blazinghand And, I think it's scummy here that A) you've backed away from your SnB vote and claimed it was just pressure when the wagon began to fall apart, just like you set up for when you voted B) this is basically a straight-up OMGUS I had moved my vote over to iamperfection, and he seems scummy but I really can't ignore a shit OMGUS of this magnitude. Rereading I've realized it was a mistake to ever unvote you. And I am not threatened by your claim because a miller claim is meaningless-- it's a null tell. It's never factored into my case or my analysis of you, but you sure seem insecure about it. ##unvote ##vote ZB | ||
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2) just did 3) he mentioned it | ||
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On November 14 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote: One more thing, that I ignored earlier. If he feels so strongly about me voting SnB without giving any reasoning or thoughts, why isn't he going after DP, who's actually done that not once, but TWICE?? Townie Motivation: none. Scum motivation: he feels threatened that I have claimed miller and people are not showing signs of doubt on my claim. | ||
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On November 14 2012 07:13 Clarity_nl wrote: I've heard that before and I don't necessarily disagree, but this really stood out to me. I wasn't digging for it, I was simply asking questions, and the things you told me were: -Zbo said that scum would be threatened by his miller claim -Scum wouldn't be threatened by his miller claim -You are not threatened by his miller claim Sure, you could mean that as a townie you're not threatened by his claim, but why would you say this? Especially if, as town, you think he's scum. No, I mentioned I wasn't threatened by the claim, then you asked me about it, then I expanded on it. I was responding to him claiming I was threatened by his claim, and everything I've said is correct. | ||
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On November 14 2012 07:12 marvellosity wrote: Clarity, I've put the quiz on ice, it wasn't as awesome as I'd hoped. townies don't HAVE extra info, so they can't reveal it. duh. Townies make statements that appear to be scumslips. You know this as well as I do, and regularly fight against bad cases based on so-called scumslips all the time. Don't play dumb. | ||
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On November 14 2012 07:17 Clarity_nl wrote: But he never said you were threatened. He said scum was threatened. Do you see what I mean? No, you lack skills. reading skills. On November 14 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote: ithout giving any reasoning or thoughts, why isn't he going after DP, who's actually done that not once, but TWICE?? Townie Motivation: none. Scum motivation: he feels threatened that I have claimed miller and people are not showing signs of doubt on my claim. This is Z-B trying to say that my motivation is that I am threatened. He's saying there's no town motivation, but there is a scum motive for this action. I'm telling him that I am not threatened by his claim, and in fact nobody is because it is a null tell. | ||
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On November 14 2012 07:19 marvellosity wrote: not with extra information stuff, no. Yes, they do. All the time. | ||
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On November 14 2012 07:22 Hapahauli wrote: Oh sniped by some cases on BH. I'll get to that in a bit. I've always heard that BH's scum-play is notoriously bad, and he seems more fearless than I would expect from his "bad" scum play. I'll take a look at the cases, but that's my first impression of him anywho. Anyone making a meta read on me should actually read my scum games. I'm completely serious. | ||
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On November 14 2012 07:17 Z-BosoN wrote: To him, this post is clearly me trying to start a wagon. I find this absurd. If I wanted to look good by starting a wagon, would I not bother to make a case that people would actually follow? Does he honestly think I expected three other people to vote SnB as well due to this post? He's basically saying that if three other people hadn't voted on him, then I'd be much less guilty. I can say this due to his ginourmous insistence that I'm, again, "trying to get town cred for starting a wagon" , which, to him, makes perfect sense. That implies that if I hadn't started a wagon (i,e wagon = more people voting for the same person as me), then he wouldn't have been using my first vote on SnB as an argument. One can argue: "But ZB! He said you tried, not that you did!" . That is very true. Except that by that logic, every first vote on someone is an "attempt to start a wagon", which is silly. It's not absurd, because you literally did start a wagon. You hopped your vote around until something stuck so you could look good. On November 14 2012 07:17 Z-BosoN wrote: Hope that makes sense as to why I find that his main reason for voting me is absurd, and uncharacteristic of someone with a decent townie play. 3) Clearly says that making the first vote on someone is scummier than sheeping a case, if both have no reasoning behind it. Because the guy with the first vote is "trying to look good", while the second guy is pretty swell. See it's funny cause you DID unvote S&B quickly, but he was the vote you stuck to when a wagon formed. Iamp is scummy too. On November 14 2012 07:17 Z-BosoN wrote: 4) Up until now I've assumed his premise that my vote came with no reasoning, which is quite untrue. Quoting myself in a later post: . To which he conveniently dismisses that as "a crap explanation". That is, he acknowledges that there IS an explanation, but it's just so bad that it has to come from scum, defining my vote on him as "trying to start a weak wagon". 5) Also note that he said I unvoted SnB "as soon as it was hopeless". Except that I unvoted SnB because I changed my vote to BH. AFTER I attacked you and your crap SnB case. It's a straight up OMGUS from you. On November 14 2012 07:17 Z-BosoN wrote: Concluding... I find his reaction to my case against him and his second bout further testaments to the fact that he is scum. So:
I cannot see this coming from townie play, especially regarding someone like BH, and will maintain my vote on him. I hope that by this post you can clearly see how he is - at the very least - playing this game very badly, and hope that you will agree with me that this guy is scum. Your goal has been to back down from your case. I see you saying "especially regarding someone like BH"-- if you think this is my scum meta, or if you think me being confident or aggressive if my scum meta, you are just an oyster with your head in the sand. | ||
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On November 14 2012 07:23 marvellosity wrote: that's a logical fallacy, because they don't have extra information to slip. No. Look, townies make statements all the time that could be interpreted that there's extra info to slip. Like they refer to "the townies" in the third person or assume someone is scum or town and this kind of thing is also what scum do when they scumslip. It appears the same to the outside observer, and it's why scumslips are not a useful tool in scumhunting. | ||
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On November 14 2012 07:29 marvellosity wrote: Blazing, you still haven't answered why you're attacking Z-Bo so heavily for his s&b vote when there's a slew of other people who made very similar votes. And stop calling his case OMGUS, it's tedious. Z&B was hopping around and trying to start wagons until one stuck, then he did, and it stuck. He is the scummiest, and I will lynch him. Other people might also be scummy, but that's not my main concern: I've caught scum. It's a waste of my time and attention to think about these other, worse candidates beyond the normal examination of their posts and the cases against him. | ||
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Man, there's few things I hate like arguing about my own meta, but several people have talked about it, at least in passing, so I'm dispelling the meta myth right now. I would have liked someone else to do it, but you all are too lazy to actually back up your meta statements so I have to do it myself. It'd be really nice if one of you could verify it for yourself because a dude talking about his own meta doesn't usually go well. Here are my scum games. There might be one or two I'm missing, but these are the ones I remember: Cop Idiot Mafia: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=328827&user=133498 Bureaucracy Mafia: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678&user=133498 Resistance II: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=311315&user=133498 Emergency Mini Mafia (3rd party): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=311315&user=133498 If you take a look at all these games, even Emergency Mini Mafia, what people are attributing to my "bad scum meta" this game are not present at all. As scum I try to play like town-- posting big cases and interacting with people a lot. Where I fail is that as scum, I'm typically overly diplomatic and temperamentally less aggressive. This game is nothing like any of my scum games. Now let's look at the one time I've been mislynched, in Storm Mafia: Storm Mafia: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=313426&user=133498 Yeah it's rather old but the point is I don't always play perfectly. Sometimes, yes, I'm making smaller posts and my cases aren't perfect. I've been mislynched for playing to my "scum meta" when in fact I just sometimes play differently as town. I'm not making the same mistake I made in Storm Mafia-- not defending myself zealously and claiming at the appropriate time. I'm the Jailkeeper. My crumb is in the post where I talk about my large penis and how it could work as a "pad" (link)-- for pad-lock, lock, locked up, jail, jailkeeper. Admittedly, role crumbs aren't much supporting evidence, but lynching a claimed blue D1 is amazingly bad play. It's possible there's no scum roleblocker which means my power can still be of use to us. You all have plenty of time to unvote me and vote Z-B before the day ends. | ||
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youre welcome to be mad at me but at least let me soak up a bullet/rb tonight and potentially stop the scum NK | ||
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On November 14 2012 08:06 marvellosity wrote: you don't fucking stop anything, scum roleblocks you and kills me, or scum roleblocks you and kills you. you fucking idiot. please stop with the insults. its not helping anyone and it makes me sad | ||
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I currently have two scumreads ZB and Iamp. If ZB isnt geting lynnjed thats understandable but iamp is a good target for todays lynch probably lurking wise xfire is getting modkilled/replaced probably so thats good Im chiefly concerned about thrawn because he wont get modkilled and is lurking will make sure to write good cases today | ||
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still though since his initial snb post and the poor quality of his starting case on me zb has been open and honest with his thoughts and pushed me-- and id like to think im not an easy or natural lynch target for scum. ##unvote | ||
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On November 14 2012 11:09 Crossfire99 wrote: You claimed jailkeeper less than half way through day 1!? The vote count that was just posted had like 4 votes on you. Why did you claim!? Were you really assured of being lynched that early day 1? You must have been acting really scummy to have like everyone against you so quick on day 1. If you were acting that scummy, maybe this is a ploy because who in their right mind claims so freakin early day 1? I claimed half way through day 1 and we're better off for it. If you think I'm scum, feel free to come at me. | ||
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On November 14 2012 11:13 marvellosity wrote: who is, then? your two main reads have basically become town or null reads. Currently Thrawn and Hopeless. It's not really that hopeless isn't active at this moment but that over the course of the first 24 hours he hasn't made any direct attacks-- just asked questions and made mild accusations. I'll have to compare to WLIIA mafia and do some homework to write up a real case. Thrawn for obvious reasons. | ||
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On November 14 2012 11:21 thrawn2112 wrote: I wanna lynch darthpunk. I remember his town play as somewhat aggressive and stubborn, and what I'm seeing from him in this game is completely different from that impression. I still think the whole snb 4 votes early on thing was a little silly and probably had scum behind it. ---snip--- Specifically, this is what i'm talking about with dp's tone. This... ...is not what I expect from dp. I expect him to be argumentative and to challenge anyone who accuses him of being wrong. I'm pretty sure DP was being sarcastic here, rather than submissive. On November 14 2012 11:21 thrawn2112 wrote: I don't like his votes/unvotes for snb or the explanations for the votes. Reasonable On November 14 2012 11:21 thrawn2112 wrote: His last voting action was an unvote, and the next 8 posts contain mainly fluff and jokes, not much information that's pertinent to the thread. The fact that he hasn't taken a position is worrying-- but the joking and fluff are characteristic of his play. See NMMXXVIII http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=370487¤tpage=17#322 On November 14 2012 11:21 thrawn2112 wrote: Summary: He took the easy vote on snb and was wishy washy about it (voting then unvoting then voting then unvoting) because he knows the vote looks bad. After voting the first time, he unvoted then challenged clarity for doing the exact same thing that dp himself did (hasty bandwagon voting for snb) and then he unvoted for a final time and his filter after that point contains no scumhunting or any of his reads/thoughts. ##Vote: Darthpunk The other people that voted for snb during that time were hapa, clarity, and boson. With boson... the miller claim didn't seem to come at the right time to be a scum fakeclaim. I'd expect fake claims to come along much later after everyone has been given a chance to post/claim. Hapa, I'm wary of. BH made a comment along the lines of "whoever voted for snb is bad or scum," and hapa is definitely not bad. But he as well as clarity continued giving reads and interacting with the thread after the snb stuff, while dp has been wishywashy with his vote and not talked about much of anything else. The snb bandwagon grew so quickly that I think it's very likely that there were scum behind it, and dp looks scummiest out of all of them. There was his original voting/unvoting, not following through with any reads afterwards and having a fluffy filter, and being extremely peaceful and not willing to get in fights. That's the exact opposite of town dp. From a meta perspective I don't think this case holds up. Where it does hold up is DP being on the SnB wagon and not contributing significantly afterwards. I'm willing to lynch him based on this, because staking out a semi-position like that could be something scum would do, and he's a good enough candidate otherwise. The SnB wagon definitely had scum on it-- he seemed an easy lynch. I don't think your meta analysis is good though. | ||
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On November 14 2012 11:33 marvellosity wrote: i agree not to carry on being mad at you if you promise not to say again a single time that your claim was a good idea. If someone asks me, I will answer truthfully, but I won't volunteer information if I don't see a need to. On November 14 2012 11:35 marvellosity wrote: thrawn dear, where indeed have you been? The problem is, thrawn, is that my meta read on DarthPunk is the diametric opposite to yours. from a meta perspective, yes, this is what town DP does, but the fact that he hasn't taken any stances that currently he's maintaining / is accountable for is scummy. I find him worthwhile even if Thrawn's meta case is crap. I think Thrawn comes out of this looking worse though, because he brought up a meta case that is basically false. I'd like to see more out of DP though, and so they're my two lynch targets right now. Plus you kinda for being such a drama queen. | ||
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On November 14 2012 11:58 marvellosity wrote: this is not the same debears who in his last newbie game was abnormally excited about reaching a 30 page filter length, and was very very much the centre of attention. oh i meant literally not in germs of willingness | ||
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On November 14 2012 12:38 Hapahauli wrote: It is "magically twisted." Apparently you think I'm scummy because I've been pushing my suspicions too well. Yeah GL with that. That's awful. Im done with this shit just ignore him for now he adds no value to our discourse | ||
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##unvote ##vote: Darthpunk | ||
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buddying is classic scum and also hapa is a supsicious crazy dude ##unvote ##vote hapa | ||
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On November 15 2012 03:31 marvellosity wrote: stop making pointless one-liner posts from your phone, i don't want them. there was a whole bunch of stuff i said and you said you don't always use meta. this is not helpful. Address the rest of it too when you're home. Stop saying which meta you're playing to. ill stop defending meta claims when people stop using it against me. dealing with specific meta claims is easy to do from the phone because i am intimately familiar with my own meta so might as well do it sooner rather than later right also if there's relevant meta in my defense im gonna talk about it and if you dont like the truth then too bad | ||
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On November 15 2012 06:19 Clarity_nl wrote: Hopeless why are you not out there giving us your strongest reads and making cases? Even if you can't prevent the lynch, if you flip town we can read your filter and know it is all genuine. this man speaks with clarity | ||
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If SnB is vet then I've been playing great this game and Marv has good control of his temper. | ||
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On November 15 2012 08:28 Hapahauli wrote: Hell you're entire read on me is OMGUS and that I'm somehow not following my principles. This is retarded and I can't imagine you'd ever come up with this shit as town. By all means show me how I'm not - the "overkill" read I've mentioned in some of my other town games as well. I'm not sure how debears questionable posting and his bombastic aggression towards you is indicative of him being scum. If I were trying to advise debears, a relatively (though not super) new player on who to attack, I'd not suggest you, and I'd certainly not say to do so the way he's done. His aggression against you isn't particularly townie but I don't get why you get scum vibes from it. | ||
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You're not lynching me today and I'm town. I'm helping you with your ZB read. | ||
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On November 15 2012 08:30 Z-BosoN wrote: Sigh... please make it easy to respond to. I´m not scum and I´m pretty fed-up with having to defend myself every single game being town. "wahh i'm pretty fed up with having to play forum mafia whenever i play forum mafia" | ||
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On November 15 2012 08:36 iamperfection wrote: Well usually your pretty good at putting yourself in other peoples shoes hapa. If i was in his shoes and town and someone that coached me said i was scum i would be pretty suspicious of him. No you wouldnt | ||
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First things first: you are a clever dude.[/qiuote] Yes [QUOTE]On November 15 2012 01:10 marvellosity wrote: You are also aware of your scum meta, and we've talked about it before too. As such you're capable of making changes to your meta, or trying to. In other words, being more aggressive and what have you.[/quote] Yes [QUOTE]On November 15 2012 01:10 marvellosity wrote: Things that have struck me this game with that: - You called iamp "bad" at least a couple of times. Just outright calling him a bad player. This is in contrast to say Rock Band where you railed at him for poor play and you kept pushing him to play better. Here you call him bad and that's different.[/quote] Different than Rock Band, yes. But I've also posted more 1-liners which is different. Also I'm posting via my phone more often which is different. Lots of things are different. Are you really drawing a meta comparison after throwing out my scum meta earlier? Is this "blazinghand isn't playing his scum meta, but some other meta that's not his scum meta, but trust me I think he's scum due to this meta read that's unrelated to his scum meta?" ._. [QUOTE]On November 15 2012 01:10 marvellosity wrote: - You called Kickstart "scum or bad", he should be "ignored", he should be "removed from our discourse" (or whatever the direct quote was). The townie BH I know does not completely belittle players like this. This boils down to pretty much outright bullying of a brand new player, and that is not the townie BH I know.[/quote] [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128&user=261213¤tpage=All]http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128&user=261213¤tpage=All[/url] [QUOTE]On November 15 2012 01:10 marvellosity wrote: - we've also talked about this before again, but one reason you're pretty good as town is that you make yourself look positively townie with your play. I don't give a shit if you got mislynched once, that's how you normally play town. Here your play is marked by put downs, sarcastic remarks, and very little positive input. [/quote] If your'e saying "you've done a poor job of looking townie this game, so I think you're scum" that's reasonable. It's a normal read. If you're saying "you've done a poor job of looking townie this game, but that's not why I think you're scum-- I think you're scum because as town you have a meta of looking town" then that's unreasonable unless you actually draw comparison to my scum meta. Any read on me should be based on my play, yes, but if you're going to make a meta read call a horse a horse and make a meta read. [QUOTE]On November 15 2012 01:10 marvellosity wrote: - your case on Z-Boson. This was going to be part of my 'quiz', but if we take a look at your two most recent town-games, Rock Band and Whose Line, your first cases are marked by extensive use of meta. X is scummy because of Y, and look at how he played in this game and this game and this game to try to prove your argument. In this game you made no effort to research Z-Boson's meta, and that's not what I expect of a town BH. In contrast, your first major case as SK in Emergency Mafia also failed to utilise any meta as a supporting argument. Same with Bureaucracy. [/QUOTE] So you're saying I have a scum meta of not using meta? Before Rock Band, I'm pretty sure I never used meta as town or scum. After my modkill in igrok's game, I did some serious thinking and have gradually been making changes to my play, including making more extensive use of meta. Just because I haven't rolled scum super recently doesn't mean you can just say "oh look blazinghand isn't using meta, therefore he is scum" As a final note, I want to re-quote this: [QUOTE]On November 15 2012 01:10 marvellosity wrote: You are also aware of your scum meta, and we've talked about it before too. As such you're capable of making changes to your meta, or trying to. In other words, being more aggressive and what have you.[/quote] You can't have it both ways. Either you're using my scum meta, or you're not using my scum meta and you're making a regular case. You can't say "Well, BH's play is nothing like his scum meta, BUT I still think I can make a meta case". I haven't played well this game-- make a case on that instead of wasting our time with non-meta meta reads | ||
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On November 15 2012 01:10 marvellosity wrote: First things first: you are a clever dude. Yes On November 15 2012 01:10 marvellosity wrote: You are also aware of your scum meta, and we've talked about it before too. As such you're capable of making changes to your meta, or trying to. In other words, being more aggressive and what have you. Yes On November 15 2012 01:10 marvellosity wrote: Things that have struck me this game with that: - You called iamp "bad" at least a couple of times. Just outright calling him a bad player. This is in contrast to say Rock Band where you railed at him for poor play and you kept pushing him to play better. Here you call him bad and that's different. Different than Rock Band, yes. But I've also posted more 1-liners which is different. Also I'm posting via my phone more often which is different. Lots of things are different. Are you really drawing a meta comparison after throwing out my scum meta earlier? Is this "blazinghand isn't playing his scum meta, but some other meta that's not his scum meta, but trust me I think he's scum due to this meta read that's unrelated to his scum meta?" ._. On November 15 2012 01:10 marvellosity wrote: - You called Kickstart "scum or bad", he should be "ignored", he should be "removed from our discourse" (or whatever the direct quote was). The townie BH I know does not completely belittle players like this. This boils down to pretty much outright bullying of a brand new player, and that is not the townie BH I know. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128&user=261213¤tpage=All On November 15 2012 01:10 marvellosity wrote: - we've also talked about this before again, but one reason you're pretty good as town is that you make yourself look positively townie with your play. I don't give a shit if you got mislynched once, that's how you normally play town. Here your play is marked by put downs, sarcastic remarks, and very little positive input. If your'e saying "you've done a poor job of looking townie this game, so I think you're scum" that's reasonable. It's a normal read. If you're saying "you've done a poor job of looking townie this game, but that's not why I think you're scum-- I think you're scum because as town you have a meta of looking town" then that's unreasonable unless you actually draw comparison to my scum meta. Any read on me should be based on my play, yes, but if you're going to make a meta read call a horse a horse and make a meta read. On November 15 2012 01:10 marvellosity wrote: - your case on Z-Boson. This was going to be part of my 'quiz', but if we take a look at your two most recent town-games, Rock Band and Whose Line, your first cases are marked by extensive use of meta. X is scummy because of Y, and look at how he played in this game and this game and this game to try to prove your argument. In this game you made no effort to research Z-Boson's meta, and that's not what I expect of a town BH. In contrast, your first major case as SK in Emergency Mafia also failed to utilise any meta as a supporting argument. Same with Bureaucracy. So you're saying I have a scum meta of not using meta? Before Rock Band, I'm pretty sure I never used meta as town or scum. After my modkill in igrok's game, I did some serious thinking and have gradually been making changes to my play, including making more extensive use of meta. Just because I haven't rolled scum super recently doesn't mean you can just say "oh look blazinghand isn't using meta, therefore he is scum" As a final note, I want to re-quote this: On November 15 2012 01:10 marvellosity wrote: You are also aware of your scum meta, and we've talked about it before too. As such you're capable of making changes to your meta, or trying to. In other words, being more aggressive and what have you. You can't have it both ways. Either you're using my scum meta, or you're not using my scum meta and you're making a regular case. You can't say "Well, BH's play is nothing like his scum meta, BUT I still think I can make a meta case". I haven't played well this game-- make a case on that instead of wasting our time with non-meta meta reads [/QUOTE] | ||
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On November 15 2012 08:34 Blazinghand wrote: "wahh i'm pretty fed up with having to play forum mafia whenever i play forum mafia" For what it's worth this is like the scummiest thing ZB has done this game | ||
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On November 15 2012 09:01 Z-BosoN wrote: It's cause you don't know the context balh blah blah vblahl blahblah I meant it in the sense that you aren't very scummy | ||
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The two players who have made the most sense this game are Clarity and Marv (all issues I have with him aside). I don't like Hapa not attacking me-- this is rather un-hapa like. That said, I see nobody wants to lynch him, and the two guys I like best are voting for another guy I like. Between Hopeless, DP, and debears, DP is the most likely to flip scum. debears is at least in the thread and Hopeless is just being hopeless. I shouldn't have unvoted DP. ##unvote ##vote DP | ||
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On November 15 2012 09:46 DarthPunk wrote: Clarity is scum kids. ##Vote Darthpunk RIGHT IN THE FACE. You literally can't believe that. | ||
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He wants to lynch clarity | ||
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On November 15 2012 09:51 marvellosity wrote: I could consolidate on to Crossfire, I guess. I don't think DP is scum. I don't think DP would make a case on Clarity if he's scum. There are enough outlying candidates for him to make a case on and vote on. I think it's more likely DP is being bad. I often find DP's reads as town somewhat ridiculous. It's possible he dove into the thread in the eleventh hour with an insane terrible read but how could you think clarity isn't town after his D1 play. I can't possibly imagine this coming even from a bad town player-- and DP clearly read clarity's filter. | ||
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On November 15 2012 09:52 Hopeless1der wrote: K actually going home this time. I'll be back before the lynch, TL being down notwithstanding If you vote DP you're more likely to die but then we'll get to lynch scum so do that | ||
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On November 15 2012 09:53 Clarity_nl wrote: I hope everyone is cool with me addressing DP's case after lynchtime, because it'll clog up the thread and we need to consolidate right about now. @ Hapa Aren't you saying the opposite of what the log suggests? In the log he says "I guess I should post less" and you tell him to post more anyway. Yet he hasn't. The easiest way to address DP's case is to lynch him | ||
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On November 15 2012 09:58 Hapahauli wrote: Why do you want to consolidate on Crossfire when he's heading to modkill land? Also regarding DP, coming in with a random case on a player who hasn't been considered at all, especially considering we're not consolidated at all as town is pretty questionable. Dunno if it's enough to lynch him over debears though - these last minute things never end well. HE's probably going to replacement land, not modkill land. Either way not worht lynching | ||
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On November 15 2012 10:07 Clarity_nl wrote: BLAZINGHAND? REALLY?! | ||
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##vote crossfire99 | ||
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On November 15 2012 10:11 Clarity_nl wrote: Yes, it's nonsense. But lynching him is not the answer. contain your rage for the next 49 minutes. Debears Hopeless Z-Boson These are your choices. Unvote the coinflip. Dp not on the list? | ||
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like, he's pulled some crap about posting a case he already had but look at his play this game | ||
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On November 15 2012 10:18 Clarity_nl wrote: Blazing, get your vote somewhere useful. Z-Boson, get your vote somewhere. Fair enough. ##unvote ##vote: DarthPunk same reasons as always | ||
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I hereby claim all town cred for the DP lynch | ||
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On November 15 2012 10:28 Clarity_nl wrote: I feel cheated. Marv, are you willing to consolidate on DP, regardless of your conviction about Z-bo? Dude you already have plenty of town cred. I'm like semi serious here when he flips scum I want people to think "hey, BH may have played like shit and was forced to claim but he is also a helpful guy" | ||
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On November 15 2012 10:29 DarthPunk wrote: This fucking game. How in the FLYING FUCK is that a scumslip?!?!?!?! It would be anti town to try and persuade the entire town to vote clarity this close to dead line. Also nigh impossible. I am being rational and realistic about my chances of voting my top scumread. Holy balls hapa. I don't see it as a scumslip because scumslips don't exist. You still scum though | ||
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On November 15 2012 10:32 debears wrote: Oh and btw guys 30 minutes before the lynch and hopeless still not here last post of his That was 40 minutes ago. Long time to get home He's claiming difficulty connecting to TL | ||
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On November 15 2012 10:34 DarthPunk wrote: I am flipping town. Lynch Z-Bo and clarity. BH and Hapa need to be looked at closely. Marv is 100% town Debears is my second strongest town read. You got this debears. <3 Perfection town. Crossfire town S&B town Hopeless null Everyone I missed. Null and forgettable apparently. Never been mis-lynched before. I blew chunks this game GO town!!! <# There's still 25 minutes left. If you're really town you'll use it to actually write cases that will convince people. | ||
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On November 15 2012 10:35 Blazinghand wrote: There's still 25 minutes left. If you're really town you'll use it to actually write cases that will convince people. In fact, making a post like this with so much time left isn't particularly more helpful than spending 20 minutes thinking and developing it and posting it before you die. It does "appear" townie though. | ||
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On November 15 2012 10:38 DarthPunk wrote: take a look at their filters and try and see what I see when I am confirmed town. I can't build ~10 cases in 30 minutes. that is an unreasonable expectation. But you could do SOMETHING. Write A CASE. Be useful rather than... whatever you're doing. Unless you're scum! then feel free to just complain for a while and die without giving up too much info. | ||
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On November 15 2012 10:39 debears wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote Hopeless 20 minutes and counting. I doubt he's coming back lol | ||
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##unvote ##vote ZB | ||
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On November 15 2012 10:46 Clarity_nl wrote: Starting to feel that way. I'm having a hard time explaining why though. I don't think scum would go out trying to push a lynch on me, however ill-explained it may be. Also, he changed his position between his two "death posts" which indicates he actuall read and thought between them | ||
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On November 15 2012 10:46 iamperfection wrote: ...........................................wat it'll all make sense after the flip! | ||
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ZB... will flip scum. | ||
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On November 15 2012 10:47 debears wrote: Wait BH that isn't another fucking claim right? LOL no I'm not a vig | ||
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On November 15 2012 10:50 Hapahauli wrote: Yeah thar guy Marv, but mostly Blazinghand, Sexy Baller Extraordinaire, is right right here - DP's being pretty townie going down. FTFY | ||
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On November 15 2012 10:51 Clarity_nl wrote: Hapa just hard defended you, and you think he's scum? Explain before you get lynched please. Actually if you think about it, this is exactly the kind of thing Scum OR Town Hapa would do | ||
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On November 15 2012 10:52 Clarity_nl wrote: Right, so where/how is he scum? You have 8 minutes. He should have been attacking me but instead he's a kool krocodile | ||
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On November 15 2012 10:53 debears wrote: Save Hapa for d2 BH yeah basically this | ||
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On November 15 2012 10:54 iamperfection wrote: well i actually wouldnt mind doing it now this is not town hapa. going herp derp scumslip scumslip ##FoS: Hapa Let's get a count of who's in. FOS him if you are willing to vote him. | ||
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##unvote ##vote: Hapa | ||
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ZB: 7 Hapa: 1 | ||
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On November 15 2012 11:00 marvellosity wrote: you will have to answer for it tomorrow. I *saved* Z-B from the lynch. I have nothing to answer for but my own excellent D1 scumhunting and overall good play. | ||
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On November 15 2012 11:14 Z-BosoN wrote: BH, YOU ARE NEXT IN LINE BUDDY. No I'm not. | ||
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1: my claim 2: we lynched Hapa 6-5, and I was one of the 6. Why would I do this as scum with Hapa looking much townier than me? | ||
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On November 15 2012 11:15 Clarity_nl wrote: Blazinghand, before I forget, in the last hour of night I'd like you to post your night action. Absolutely. I wouldn't have it any other way. | ||
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On November 15 2012 11:17 DarthPunk wrote: Trying to get as much town cred as possible from your bus hey. Trying to get as much town cred as possible from my successful lynching of a town player, yes. Square both circles, then we can talk. | ||
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On November 15 2012 11:17 iamperfection wrote: hey bh am i still terrible or am i awesome terribly awesome or awesomely terrible | ||
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On November 15 2012 11:17 Blazinghand wrote: Trying to get as much town cred as possible from my successful lynching of a town player, yes. Square both circles, then we can talk. EBWOP: scum player rather | ||
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On November 15 2012 11:17 strongandbig wrote: also this means you're probably not scum hey someone with a good head on his shoulders | ||
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On November 15 2012 11:22 DarthPunk wrote: So it was very unlikely to succeed and then if either of them flipped they would have been at a comfortable distace. But It worked. And they had to do something because the way which they bandwagoned me was super fucking suspicious and would have damned them both when I flipped town I'm tired of listening to the garbage you call logic. You're dead tomorrow. http://tinyurl.com/66wbb8t <3 | ||
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On November 15 2012 11:34 DarthPunk wrote: Also I am confirmed town. SO suck it, all of you. I'm not really sure how you're confirmed town. I actually think it's quite the opposite. Please explain. | ||
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Um, what? I think there's nothing about your play that confirms you as town. | ||
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Yeah but I don't think anyone on the Hapa wagon is confirmed town. Even looking at my own position, there's nothing confirmed about my town-ness. I think it makes little sense for a guy like DP or me to lynch Hapa if we were scum, but we are really the opposite of confirmed town. We're scummy players with mitigating circumstances. | ||
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My townread on DP has nothing to do with his presence on the wagon, or the fact that he was the 6th vote. It's about how he acted when the pressure was on and he thought he was gonna be lynched. There's no confirmed town at all. | ||
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On November 15 2012 11:40 DarthPunk wrote: You are both idiots. I was being pushed by fucking hapa. He was one of the players to initiate the lynch on me and was fine with the way it was going until marv and others realised I was townie in my death throwes. At the end I was like HAPA is scum. Also I was the one who fucking switched at the last minute when the votes were tied. I made that lynch a certainty at the last possible second before deadline. The ACTUAL MINUTE OF THE DEADLINE. That doesn't make you confirmed town, and you know it. Stop wasting our time and yours. I don't want to spend this night arguing with a townie so I'm gonna ignore you. | ||
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On November 15 2012 11:41 DarthPunk wrote: I guess you wouldn't want confirmed townies would you BH? ._. if you really think I'm scum make a case, square the circles, etc. I'm done with you. See you in the morning, but probably not. | ||
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On November 15 2012 11:43 Hopeless1der wrote: I have a very hard time calling DP scum right now. IF he was scum, and IF he had voted ZB instead of Hapa, and IF ZB had flipped town, would that have told us anything about Hapa? That shitstorm was so volatile that I have a hard time making sense of things with a Bowser flip. He's not confirmed in the slightest, but he looks very very townie based on those 'mitigating circumstances'. I'm not calling DP scum either. I'm just saying he's not confirmed town-- we have no confirmed town. We're not lynching DP tomorrow and I'm sure as hell not voting him, because no case can be made against him, but that's based on his actions when his ass was on the line and his contribution to the wagon. There's no confirmed town. There's no confirmed town. | ||
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On November 15 2012 11:44 DarthPunk wrote: Not a confirmed town but you happily call me townie whilst decrying calling me town. You should work in advertising. Well, I'm glad we cleared this up. | ||
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On November 15 2012 11:44 iamperfection wrote: i did not actually but i don't really see what your point is. He's saying that there's no real "hammer" vote because in the shitstorm that was the end of D1 it wasn't clear, even to keen eyed observers like us, who was going to be lynched and what the votecount was. | ||
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On November 15 2012 11:45 Hopeless1der wrote: I agree, but I don't think DP falls in the 'scummy with mitigating circumstances' category. I'm not really convinced you fall there either anymore. Perhaps I should rephrase: "was considered scummy, but due to actions under pressure, are actually quite overwhelmingly townie" | ||
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On November 15 2012 15:11 thrawn2112 wrote: on top of that, you have a 13 page filter so your story doesn't even line up Yes you're clearly correct, I've written so many long posts from my computer. | ||
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On November 16 2012 09:46 iamperfection wrote: marv wants the vig to shoot you. are you aware? Not a good use of a vigi shot given that we have lurkers. Marv is smart enough to know this, but he's (pretending to be?) mad at me so he wants to shoot me anyways. | ||
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On November 15 2012 14:54 Blazinghand wrote: And I know you guys are gonna hate me for thus, but uh, yeah, I'm not a JK. Monday I had some family issues come up and it meant I wouldn't have much time to play through today, so I had to fake claim. Thursday and onwards I'm free though. Of course everyone is gonna be like super mad at me for this, but it worked, okay? Okay. This, and the post after it, explicitly contradict everything I've ever said about how mafia is played, and are posts I would never make, which should direct you towards the crumb itself: am too as a reference to the typical argument you'd get into a sibling, in which they say you are not, and you proclaim "am too". I am indeed the JK, and this minor deception was neccessary to get a chance at using my power. In any case, I saved DP tonight. I really wanted to not save him because he's kind of a worthless dick who wants to lynch me, but he's also the townest player in the game, and he's not a blue, so I don't have to worry about roleblocking him. Also, he's like probably getting shot, as I mentioned earlier-- and if he was shot I wouldn't have to deal with the fountain of sewage that he considers rational discourse. Hopefully I don't get roleblocked, and I save DP with all the glory that is the JK power. I considered attacking with my power to shut down the night kill, but it's easier to determine who they're gonna shoot than who they are, and by JKing DP I gaurantee I'm not interfering with our detective. In any case, we'll see how night actions bear out, but the two circles that need to be squared by anyone saying I'm scum still stand. In terms of my chief suspicions tonight they are probably Marv but definitely Hopeless1der. Even a most trivial glance at Hopeless1der's WLLIA filter (link) shows that he isn't the kind of guy to make these weird, long cases based on nothing. He is a concise poster and when he makes a case it's usually brief but informative. Contrast Hopeless1der's D1 case on BKE from WLLIA: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16733608 and its continuation: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16737634 With his D1 case this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16901864 and his "list post" which has no equivalent from his WLLIA play: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16905396 Though admittedly he wasn't in any real danger of being lynched during WLLIA D1, which could have changed his reaction, this still is a big departure from his play. Looking at his case against clarity tonight, which is long, poorly argued, and based on poor logic, I see this is a departure from Hopeless1's meta in the last game I played with him. Now, one might argue he's trying to improve and write bigger cases, but given that the case quality has actually decreased between this game and WLLIA mafia, I'm willing to say that this is probably not the case. He's playing differently and worse. I'll be around to discuss for the next hour, and of course depending on what happens come day post this case may change or grow accordingly. | ||
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On November 16 2012 10:03 Clarity_nl wrote: Darthpunk is the towniest and most likely not blue? Scum are likely to target Darthpunk? I don't follow that logic, at all. I think he's towny and not blue because of how he acted when he was gonna die. On November 15 2012 10:47 Blazinghand wrote: I don't think scum would go out trying to push a lynch on me, however ill-explained it may be. Also, he changed his position between his two "death posts" which indicates he actuall read and thought between them He changes his mind between his two "Death posts" which only really makes sense as a townie re-reading and re-evaluating the thread before he dies. Also, given that he thought he was gonna be lynched, if he was a blue he'd have claimed it 100% for sure. So I know I'm not stopping any blue actions with this JK. Honestly, if I were scum I'd probably shoot DP, even though he's wrong on BH, because he's the townest-looking player, not by his analysis or skill (definitely not, actually) but by how he acted under pressure. | ||
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On November 16 2012 10:05 Clarity_nl wrote: If marv is scum he is playing amazing. He's so pro-town, and every time I get this nagging feeling about him I look at his filter and think "nah, there's no way" Marv is an amazing scum player in general-- he's never lost as scum and he plays a pro-town game as either. I wouldn't lynch him D2 though just because he seems "too pro-town". DT would do well to check him. | ||
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On November 16 2012 10:07 marvellosity wrote: I lost as scum in the last game you hosted dear. Checking me is a fucking ridiculous use of a check. Well yeah I wouldn't check you N1 cause there's no reason to lynch you D2 | ||
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On November 16 2012 10:09 marvellosity wrote: we don't have lurkers, really. we have Crossfire who is lynchable, not simply for lurking. And thrawn. and that's it. Explain why you called Z-Boson town, then voted him and called him scum. Cause I changed my mind on DP | ||
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On November 16 2012 10:10 marvellosity wrote: oh my god BH is a complete idiot if he saved DP. fucking god save me. Well if you think DP is scum that's fine too I just blocked him if he was delivering the kill | ||
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There were only two wagons at the time dude, both of those guys were less scummy than hapa but it wasn't happening so I unvoted hapa | ||
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On November 16 2012 10:12 marvellosity wrote: BH is seriously the worst player in this game by a stretch. It's quite embarrassing. See, this is even more evidence for me being town-- if I'm so bad, surely a scumteam with me and hapa would sacrifice me rather than him | ||
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On November 16 2012 10:14 marvellosity wrote: There's a difference between "there are two wagons" and "this guys is town. no wait, he's scum" that's bs. Well, I sure aint gonna call the guy I'm voting town am I | ||
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On November 16 2012 10:15 marvellosity wrote: you already had and gave NO REASON WHY HE WAS NOW SUDDENLY SCUM right, but not when I'm voting him derp | ||
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On November 16 2012 10:16 marvellosity wrote: so you were voting someone you thought was town and called him scum to what, keep up appearances? what the fuck? What, no. I thought ZB was a better lynch than DP given DP's reactions so I voted him and called him scum are you just willfully misinterpreting me here? this is you | ||
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On November 16 2012 10:17 marvellosity wrote: yes, you could have fakeclaimed. I led a wagon on scum Day 1 in Liquid City and I was scum You can be scum. I desperately want you to be scum. That's really the crux of the issue. The smart part of you knows I'm town, but you want me to be scum. Shut up and play the game, marv. | ||
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0) want to lynch hapa, DP and ZB are not great lynches, but have to unvote hapa cause it's not hapaning. (huk huk huk) 1) want to lynch DP, vote him, think ZB is towner 2) DP becomes towner 3) vote for ZB and call him scum I don't get where you don't understand | ||
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On November 16 2012 10:21 marvellosity wrote: one player being townier than another doesn't make the other one scum... HOW DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THIS There were two wagons, Marv, and don't forget 4) realize both wagons are shit and join the coalition of the willing to bring the great spears of justice' light down upon Hapa to impale him | ||
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On November 16 2012 10:18 Blazinghand wrote: That's really the crux of the issue. The smart part of you knows I'm town, but you want me to be scum. Shut up and play the game, marv. | ||
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Tonight I am JKing DarthPunk. | ||
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On November 16 2012 10:30 Clarity_nl wrote: Why is DP not a blue. Cause he was on the verge of death, made death/list posts, and didn't claim with very little time left to go. If he's a blue I'll literally eat my hat. | ||
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On November 16 2012 10:32 marvellosity wrote: you protect your biggest assets as JK, it's really easy. and DP is the towniest player in this game besides me. | ||
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On November 16 2012 10:47 marvellosity wrote: no, and stop antagonising me you dick then whats your read on me | ||
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SnB ZB (kinda Town: Hopeless1 DP Clarity iamp kinda kick kinda debears | ||
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On November 16 2012 11:10 Djodref wrote: Ok guys I have a meeting right now so I'm not going to be able to participate too much but I find BH claim to be role blocked extremely convenient. Given all his trolly play during D1 and his ill-timed claim, I'm up for a BH lynch today ! I suspect Cross post and vote against BH to be WIFOM or an easy attempt to distance himself from his partner because a BH lynch was not happening D1 for sure. ##Vote Blazinghand Um, convenient? I tried to avoid getting RBed last night, but several people called it out for what it was. I'm not terribly surprised I got blocked. Unless someone else is claiming they got roleblocked I don't see how my claim is invalid. | ||
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##vote: SnB | ||
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On November 16 2012 16:15 debears wrote: Based on above thought, who does that leave? Thrawn (Djo) Z-Bo (Can't vote himself as scum or gives away hapa) Clarity SnB Who has been least helpful while active? I'd say thrawn or Snb. Since thrawn got replaced, I'm willing to give you time to show you are town. Clarity I found town for d1. I still have to look at him again. SnB has done absolutely nothing for town Another reason to cut Djo some slack is that thrawn might have been unhelpful while active, but he DID end up getting replaced-- so we shouldn't hold that against Djo. Generally replacements should get a day of breathing room. | ||
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On November 16 2012 16:18 debears wrote: And Djo What has SnB done for town? Nothing What has BH done? Helped lynch the godfather It'd be a stupid gambit for scum. Town cred is worthless d1 for a scum bus. THINK ABOUT IT Another note, it'd probably be an infinitely better strat to do in reverse: Hapa, the godfather, who checks as town, should lynch me and bathe in glory (and he looked better than me at the time) and if anyone checks him, he comes back town. I'm just not buying it. I'm me, of course, but like it sounds utterly implausible that I'm scum and me and Hapa talked and he was like "yeah man i think it's a good idea for you to lynch me" | ||
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I'm sitting down and re-reading D1 now to get an associative case. S&B is being lynched and is probably flipping scum, but we should play as though he's gonna flip town in terms of continuing to analyze. Being caught flat-footed after a town flip would suck, and if he flips scum yeah we wasted some time but better safe than sorry. | ||
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do you really think you've effectively addressed A) my claim and B) the Hapa lynch to the point where lynching me is a good idea? or is this your last hope as scum that I might be a worth mislynch, and some bads will jump on the wagon with you? | ||
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On November 17 2012 09:02 strongandbig wrote: lol so my not posting for a while was enough to make you change your mind about all the points you made previously saying I was town? I don't believe that. Plus, this is like the first time you've mentioned it. It reaaaaaaaaaally looks to me like you're just trying to ride the wave of the popular lynch of the moment. Tell you what, SnB. Vote me if you want, but make cases on someone other than me as well. If you really do flip town, I don't want you to have wasted all your time and energy pushing the jailkeeper. | ||
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1) my claim does not make sense except from a town perspective, and is uncontested 2) I lynched hapa, which makes zero sense no matter how much you strain your small brain to wrap around it and contort your logic around it. You have not resoundingly defeated either of these arguments. I would never borrow from YOUR meta. You're saying "I , SnB, have a meta of this kind of claim as scum, and BH was in a game in which I did that, therefore BH is fake-claiming this game" which makes no sense. In fact, in WLIIA Mafia scum could buy powers just like town, which made that kind of claim viable. This is a setup in which such a claim cannot be maintained. If this was an argument for "BH is a SK fakeclaiming Vigi" then it would make sense, but I claimed JK. Your logic is terrible. And the hapa lynch is what it is. | ||
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On November 17 2012 09:12 strongandbig wrote: okay so BH explain to me even if we accept that I was somehow lurking or whatever why does that change your interpretation of my day 1 posting? you were pretty adamant that it meant I was town, and then you completely changed your mind without any explanation whatsoever. Let me break it down for you SnB cause apparently you're not getting it at all. This is the last time I'm responding to your trash posting-- if you convince other people to join your crusade, I'll talk to you again but other than this you're wasting my time. Here's the deadline votecount, with confirmed flips highlighted: DarthPunk (1): thrawn2112 (now djo) Z-BosoN (5): Clarity_nl, marvellosity, Crossfire99, strongandbig, Hapahauli debears (1): Hopeless1der Hapahauli (6): Z-BosoN, Blazinghand, debears, iamperfection, Kickstart, DarthPunk Now I don't think anyone on the Hapa wagon is a serious lynch target today. I don't personally think it's impossible scum is on the wagon, but it doesn't make a huge amount of sense for scum to bus and lynch Hapa unless they're in a better position than him in terms of town cred. As the votes started to fly, any reasonable scum player would have unvoted him unless they thought they had something to gain by lynching their own godfather last-minute. So I'm gonna say that scum is among the following list: Djo, Hopeless, Clarity, SnB Hopeless is in my mind confirmed not-scum right now. There's some small probability he's the SK, but we don't need to think about that unless the third scum flips and the game isn't over (I think). Really though he's not worth a lynch today at all. Djo replaced in and isn't getting lynched today. That leaves you and Clarity, and my only suspicion on clarity is the same suspicion on Hapa I had D1: He was too accepting of my blue-claim, and too reasonable about it. It's like he already *knew* I was a JK just from the claim. This is why I was trying to lynch Hapa D1 and why Clarity doesn't get a perfect town-read in my book, despite his otherwise solid play. You have no solid play in your favor, SnB. You went from carefree posting to a mixture of lurking and aggressive, big-case posting, which is in fact not your town meta. You're dead today. | ||
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On November 17 2012 09:22 strongandbig wrote: And here's something else you're ignoring - your claim makes even less sense from a town point of view. You claimed early in day 1 when you had like three votes on you. If you were town, by doing this you would have unnecessarily ruined your effectiveness as a town power role. My claim makes perfect sense. I was under heavy pressure, and they weren't listening to my arguments. I didn't want to be on the lynch table, and honestly any analysis and voting is infinitely more important than being a JK. The number one role of any blue player is to play like a VT-- the blue powers are just a bonus on top, especially in Normal games. The blue powers I used to avoid a shitty mislynch D1 and focus the discussion. And hey, it worked, too. On November 17 2012 09:22 strongandbig wrote: The argument that your claim is "uncontested" is completely irrelevant. This is not an open setup. I mentioned this above. Your claim is also unverifiable, making it a good claim for scum. It's not irrelevant. There's now town JKer counterclaiming me, and you can't just toss that out the window-- so far there is one blue claim other than myself, and that's all. I'm uncontested. On November 17 2012 09:22 strongandbig wrote: The thing is, nothing about your behavior in this game resembles your town play. Your cases are terrible, your arguments are terrible, and your thread presence isn't constructive. If you're gonna pull a meta argument, show me a damn game inw hich I act like this as scum, I double dog dare you On November 17 2012 09:22 strongandbig wrote: And I don't have to "defeat" your argument about lynching Hapa. You did that yourself. how | ||
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On November 17 2012 09:27 strongandbig wrote: and I thought I already explained - (1) scum don't feel like they can unvote someone like that - they're stuck to consistency (2) you had no reason to expect hapa would actually get lynched, you yourself have said you had no idea what was going on and you got hit by flood control It was the final few minutes, and really are you claiming my thing D1 was that it was *hard* for me to move my vote around? really bro? | ||
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On November 17 2012 09:25 strongandbig wrote: clarity accused me of lying I don't like that Well I'm accusing you of being a shitty player, not in terms of skill, but in terms of demeanor, sportsmanship, and attitude. I'm done interacting with you. | ||
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On November 17 2012 09:30 iamperfection wrote: The fuck you were you were not under heavy pressure you have talked about this constantly. Your claim didnt make any sense and you knew it. Stop acting like you made some great play because you didn't. you are delusional. Do you not read your own coaching tips??????????? My claim was necessary. I played bad and was forced to claim, but the claim itself, given the circumstances, was the right call. | ||
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On November 17 2012 09:33 iamperfection wrote: bs. Whatever happened to be able to pushing your agenda as town by having the credibility of good scum hunting townie. Those are your coaching tips BH. You have ZERO creditability this game and you know it. f I have zero credibility this game, then why aren't you voting me? There's a difference between "BH is playing effectively and well!" and "BH is town!" and honestly the fact that you don't like that I haven't followed my coaching tips well this game seems to be overshadowing the fact that you know I'm town. Well, not overshadowing that much-- you're not voting me-- but I'm town and you know it. So stop insulting me and play the damn game. This entire conversation is about you saying "your claim was shitty" not "your claim is scummy" so I'm done with it. | ||
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On November 17 2012 09:35 DarthPunk wrote: This really isn't necessary BH. I never figured you as one for personal attacks. But I like both you and S&B from what I know of you and this is just unnecessary bullshit IMO. Fair enough. I'll save it for the post-game. | ||
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On November 17 2012 09:35 debears wrote: You were not forced to claim. That's a lie If I didn't feel I was forced to claim, then why did I claim? | ||
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On November 17 2012 09:33 DarthPunk wrote: ZB as well. He couldn't reasonably not vote for HAPA to save himself either. Hm, That's a fair point, and ZB is a claimed Miller which adds some credence to that. Still, I'm not sure scum ZB would have voted Hapa to save himself, especially with Hapa as the gf. I don't think ZB is a good lynch today. | ||
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On November 17 2012 09:36 debears wrote: Can we double lynch BH and SnB???? Can we be more passive-aggressive and petty????? | ||
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On November 17 2012 09:38 debears wrote: That's a good question. I can't answer that. But you were not forced to claim so fucking early d1. You fucking know that. You basically nullify your whole use d1 with that shit ##Vote BH I claimed halfway through D1, that's not "so fucking early" that's "just right" and you (should) know that. | ||
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On November 17 2012 09:39 debears wrote: Honestly I'm tired of the shit you and SnB have done this game. Your claim d1 and play makes no sense from either fucking perspective. SnB's play makes no sense from either perspective Really, you think my suspicion of Hapa for uncritically accepting my claim, and then my subsequent position on the wagon that lynched him, DOES NOT make sense from a town perspective? | ||
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On November 17 2012 09:40 debears wrote: JK CLAIM HALFWAY THROUGH DAY 1?????? Wow. wow. wow. Alright I'm down to lynch BH guys I'm confused. Are you being sarcastic? | ||
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On November 17 2012 09:41 iamperfection wrote: you should not want to claim at all you I didn't WANT to claim, I HAD to claim, because I was gonna get mislynched. OR are you saying there's a scum motive that makes sense for my claiming pattern? | ||
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On November 17 2012 09:41 debears wrote: No. You were not under real threat halfway through day 1 and you claimed. That's so dumb as a jk. So fucking dumb Wait, did you not already know the timing and nature of my roleclaim? What? ._. | ||
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On November 17 2012 09:42 DarthPunk wrote: No he has always been super friendly and nice whenever I have interacted with him. I never played with him though. Maybe that is the difference. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128&user=261213 | ||
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On November 17 2012 09:42 Blazinghand wrote: Wait, did you not already know the timing and nature of my roleclaim? What? ._. Still waiting for an explanation on this, debears. Have you not been reading the thread? | ||
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On November 17 2012 09:47 debears wrote: I know the timing of your fucking claim. I knew it made no sense from either perspective. I didn't want to lynch an uncontested jk claim d1 - that's fucking retarded. But honestly, you keep saying it was necessary instead of manning the fuck up and saying your play was just horrible. Your claim was not forced. You were not under real threat. 3 votes midway through d1 =/= real threat I made the right call, and I stand by it. And if you think my defense of my claim is somehow scummy, you need to explain how "not manning up" is scummy. I'm 100% serious, I want your thought process on this, in detail. | ||
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On November 17 2012 09:49 strongandbig wrote: bh in like my third game ever I posted a picture of my plane ticket because people were accusing me of lying http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=332573¤tpage=118#2358 I don't like when people accuse me of lying. "I'm not an unsportsmanlike guy, look, I was unsportsmanlike in another game, too!" | ||
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On November 17 2012 09:48 DarthPunk wrote: He was the first on the HAPA wagon. He thought he was going to get lynched. If he flipped red he would have set hapa up to be in a really good position. With a flipped on his wagon. But then the very unlikely scenario that hapa was going to get lynched occured, despite all reasonable expectations that a wagon 5 min before deadline would fail. ZB had already laid his WIFOM bombs HAPA being one of them and if he unvoted HAPA after all that to save him it would have damned them both. That's an okay point but still not a great point. Given the amount of voteswitching happening, ZB going down with a vote on Hapa (as scum) would be a little helpful for hapa, but it was a swingy end-of-d1. It's a reason to keep ZB on the table, but not a reason to lynch him today. | ||
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On November 17 2012 09:51 debears wrote: You made the right call by making yourself fucking useless the whole game if you are jk? We can't confirm you in any way shape or form. If it gets to LYLO and you're alive we're fucked if you are jk. This is so dumb. And it's not necessarily scummy. It's not necessarily townie. But idk why you feel like you need to vindicate the play of your claim if you are jk. Ugh. ##Unvote I hate you right now BH I'm sorry. I respect that you thought it out and unvoted me even though you would viscerally LIKE to lynch me. Marv was the same-- he put his brain ahead of his gut. | ||
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On November 17 2012 09:52 Blazinghand wrote: That's an okay point but still not a great point. Given the amount of voteswitching happening, ZB going down with a vote on Hapa (as scum) would be a little helpful for hapa, but it was a swingy end-of-d1. It's a reason to keep ZB on the table, but not a reason to lynch him today. EBWOP: well, not alone, anyways | ||
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On November 17 2012 09:54 debears wrote: Alright. I am not coming back to the thread tonight. I'm gonna look over day 1 cuz right now this is pointless arguing with you We can talk about stuff other than my JK claim, too. What are your thoughts on ZB and his position on the Hapa wagon? | ||
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On November 17 2012 10:01 DarthPunk wrote: That is exactly his scum meta oh perfect one. This is correct. Check his play in XXIV (scum): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359489&user=28495¤tpage=All and contrast his play in GSL III (town): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376602&user=28495 In GSL III as town, ZB opens up with a post like this (link) heavy with analysis and with an FoS. He follows it up by reacting to other people's reactions to his case (link) 12 hours later and after some back and forths FoSes Austin (link) and follows it up with aggression and questioning of other players (link). What we observe is a player who doesn't let things drop and is willing to be aggressive in a sustained fashion against his lynch targets, and willing to question other people as a result of the discussion that happens. Let's contrast his play in NMM XXIV. He starts with policy talk (link) and attacks SS (link) but does not follow it up-- he ignores SS afterwards and attacks two other players (link), making cases on them but voting a different player (link). This play sets up a lot of cases but doesn't follow through with them. So I think we can characterize ZB's town meta as: attack a player, follow up, and develop reads from there. His scum meta is more like: attack several players at once, and avoid following up and getting into a protracted discussion or developing/pressing his case. He'll still have some follow-up to put a vote over an FoS, but generally what we see is less singleminded-ness and more setting himself up to easily get onto any wagon. So how does ZB play this game? Well, he starts with a Miller claim but I'm not gonna say anything about that cause that's different than his position as the town game. His first real post votes debears (link) and ten minutes later he moves over to SnB: (link). What's important isn't his shift to SnB, but how he leaves off his Debears case: On November 13 2012 10:13 Z-BosoN wrote: Debears, I hope your posting improves throughout this game. Also, what do you mean by "that argument again?". This isn't the ZB who pursues and develops reads, this is the ZB who wants to avoid commitment but set up for getting onto any wagon. What strikes me, though, is that he pivots away from both of his existing cases when he votes me here: (link). This is relevant because we see Z-B explicity state that On November 14 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote: It seems to me people are thinking too much of my posts, expecting some sort of brilliant day one cases. Disagreeing with my logic does not make me scum. That should pretty much handle the vast chunk of shit I got the last few pages. //// My votes on SnB and debears were more pressure votes, as if that wasn't pretty much clear. This one on blazinghand, is not. I think he's the best lynch so far, as everything I've stated seem to point on him being scum. ##Unvote ##Vote Blazinghand And I know I've said it before, but this kind of hopping around and looking for a wagon to stick to is scummy in general, and with the new meta support, I'm willing to say: it's scummy specifically for ZB as well. This is what he does, putting out several cases and not pursuing any of them with great depth. There IS a point in ZB's favor, though, and that's this: he follows up on his case against me (link) in a fairly aggressive fashion. It's worth noting, though, that a) he's still setting himself up for other wagons (link) and b) he immediately reacts to my blue claim with an unvote, uncritically accepting it just like Hapa did (link). Combine that with his post voting Hopeless1: (link) we see the scum Z-B again. When town ZB makes a case it looks like this: + Show Spoiler + Focused, developing off of previous play. When scum ZB makes a case it looks like it has this game: multi-pronged, with concessions to other players and cases. When I began writing this case I didn't know what exactly I was going to find, diving into the dank pages of ZB's meta. His scum play in NMM XXIV is, admittedly, a bit older than his town play in GSL III. It's possible he had an opportunity to change since then-- I haven't found a newer scum game. We do see some of his unfocused-ness in his Liquid City play, say in his case on VE (link). But like his normal town play, ZB Begins with an FoS then develops (link) into a vote (link) from there. ZB this game has not been playing like that this game. There have been no FoSes, no development of cases and getting of responses like in LC or GSL III. This is not his town meta, not at all. ##unvote ##vote: Z-Boson Let's get rid of him. | ||
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On November 17 2012 10:38 DarthPunk wrote: Maybe not clear. But I would be inclined to Look at S&B Clarity and ZB first. Just FYI I think if we lynch SnB, Clarity, and ZB, we catch scum between the three of them. Still waiting to make a read on Djoren though. | ||
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On November 17 2012 10:47 Z-BosoN wrote: Seriously, I've about had it with these meta reads. Fuck off. Read this: If you really think I'm scum make a fucking case that explains why I would bus my fucking teammate in a death post and say my other teammate was the best lynch. Stop fucking saying meta meta meta and starting saying fucking scum-motivation and town-motivation. Goddamn, enough conspiracy theory and start using occams razor. There's no risk of a miller counter-claim in a game with a godfather, or at least it's a low risk. 2. I pursued BH to the point he had to claim because I made good arguments, because scum are very insistent like that. Admittedly, this is a point in your favor. The fact that you immediately believed my claim and unvoted though is a mark against you. Everyone else was very skeptical except for like you, Hapa, and clarity. As scum you WOULD know it was a true claim . 3. On my dying post, I told everyone to lynch hapahauli in day 2, you know, because I'm a scum who wants to help town. Then, in the night, I said crossfire, my other teammate, was the best lynch for today. Um, if you were gonna die anything you said as you died is WIFOM and you know it. Crossfire was scummy as hell and bussing him D2 is completely fine scum play. No points for you here. 4. Hapahauli tried very very hard to defend his scum mate, even wanting to open up skype chat logs. Because that's what scum do right? Openly try to save their buddies. Hapa returned checks as town. And honestly, yes, scum DO try to save their buddies unless it is neccessary to bus them. Occam's razor tells me: it's simpler that you, playing near-exactly to your scum meta, are scum, than you playing near-exactly to your scum meta is town. You haven't been playing bad- just scummy, just like you always do as scum | ||
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On November 17 2012 11:10 Z-BosoN wrote: My meta is a step towards improving my play, and like I said, more importantly, I was aware of that. Why would I purposefully play towards my scum meta???? Everyone is aware of their scum meta, Z-B. The reason it's scum meta is that by nature it's hard to not play to it, and it's fundamentally difficult to avoid playing to it as scum. | ||
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On November 17 2012 11:12 iamperfection wrote: zbos provide scum reads. we have all heard your meta defense go catch the scum if your not it. Yeah, actually I think this is where i'm gonna leave it. | ||
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On November 17 2012 11:17 DarthPunk wrote: Here is SCUM Z-Boson from XXIV Here is Z-Boson this game Now tell me that this is Town ZB and not scum ZB. You'll also note his town play (GSL III) is totes different | ||
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Djoref I think you're wasting more of our time. If you're gonna point fingers at people at least... at least have it be plausible. come on, man. | ||
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what a guy | ||
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djorefs play is crap but you dont lynch a replacement the day he replaces in when im home ill sit down and see whats been said | ||
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ZB is scummiest, willing to lynch SnB Djoref opting out of town discourse-- this is not acceptable. would lynch if not replacement today still havent provided a serious read on clarity, i know, but will reread filter when home to determine-- still dont like that he sided with me D1 but will have to read his reasoning | ||
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On November 18 2012 06:34 iamperfection wrote: If he is town i can look down on him from now on go eat a mountain of turds | ||
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On November 18 2012 10:59 iamperfection wrote: i had a crazy theory about him lying that he was playing dota we'll get him tmr then | ||
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yeah i mean i aint switching with like 60 seconds left and a case like that that is "crazy" | ||
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Look, here's how we're handling an N2 roleclaim: Hopeless and I have already claimed. If you are a VT, do not claim. If you are a blue, it is up to you whether you want to claim or not, and when to do so. If you claim tonight, you should probably do so during the final hour. If you are a VT, after the blue has claimed, you can claim. If you do so before hand you are being a dick and outing our blues, who might not have results yet, for no reason. You dick. Q: "But blazinghand, I drodref, and a jubjub and want to make the blue's decisions for him, shoudln't we just have veryone claim regardless of what the blue thinks?" A: NO. Blue makes this decision. If it's a cop with 2 results on dead people or something he should not claim UNLESS HE FEELS LIKE IT. This might mean he wants to claim at the start of D3 rather than the end of N2 when he knows what his result is. The mass-claim shoudl be in the hands of the blue role, not in the hands of VTs Q: "But Blazinghand, I think you're scum and I, a VT, want to claim to force the blue to claim!" A: NO. The Blue is the only one who has the information neccessary to decide whether or not he claims. a VT mass-claim FORCES the blue to do something he doesn't want to do. Let the blue decide. | ||
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The only person who is allowed to claim is the blue, and after the blue claims, everyone else claims. We are not allowed to make this decision for him and the fact that anyone would take djoref even remotely seriously is bad. Nobody should even say "the blue should claim" cause this helps scum guide their shots if the blue doesn't claim. Seriously. This issue is closed. | ||
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On November 18 2012 15:57 Clarity_nl wrote: Did you end up reading my filter like you said you would? What do you think? Nah dude I just got back and saw this mass claim bullshit, had to put a stop to it first. | ||
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On November 18 2012 16:01 Clarity_nl wrote: Is your only argument when it comes to djo's claim stuff that it should be a blue's decision? Basically yes. Claims as a rule should be determined by those claiming, but by VTs. a DT with no good checks, for example, shoudln't be outed for no reason. On November 18 2012 16:01 Djodref wrote: @ Blazinghand I hate to admit it but you have a point here. The decision is in the hands of the blue players. But I disagree with the fact that I should not try to convince them to claim because I think it would give us enough information to solve the game. I want to influence their decision and I don't see what is wring with that. If you were another blue in this game, what would you think of my plan ? If I were another blue in this game I'd base my decision on my check results etc rather than your plan. And if I was something like a Veteran I wouldn't be claiming. The thing is, anyone who argues strongly in favor of a mass-claim, then DOESN'T claim a blue role in the final hour of the night, has implicitly claimed VT-- this helps scum narrow their target list for N3 in terms of sniping a blue. So I guess my answer is that my claiming or not claiming, if I were an unclaimed blue, would be independent of your plan. Really though I think we should drop it other than to say: Blue, if you want to claim, feel free to do so at your leisure. Once one blue has claimed then yeah sure let's have the rest of us claim and see if we end up with 4 blues total instead of 3 (in which case scum is probably among the 4 blues). As it stands, though, this claim decision belongs in the hands of the last blue, not in the hands of us. | ||
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On November 18 2012 16:05 Blazinghand wrote: Basically yes. Claims as a rule should be determined by those claiming, NOT by VTs. a DT with no good checks, for example, shoudln't be outed for no reason. EBWOP | ||
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You may think I'm scum, but surely you don't think it's a 100% chance. And by the way you're playing, I, and many people who do in fact not think I'm scum, can't get a townread on you. What do you want me to do, man? I'm not one to push people to acknowledge they could be wrong, but even when I am pushing a guy close to lynch time, I tell him to give out some final reads in case he flips town. I account for the possibility of being wrong. I guess I'll put this plainly: If you don't make cases on anyone else and if continue as you are now, I'm lynching you tomorrow. End of story, you're out of the game. | ||
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On November 18 2012 16:14 Djodref wrote: @ The Blues Please consider all my posts I've made to show how much a mass claim strategy would help us. I think you have now enough arguments at your disposition so you take your decision. I'll drop this subject now unless someone asks me directly a setup-related question. @the VTs if you claim before the last blue does you a dick | ||
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On November 18 2012 16:14 Clarity_nl wrote: I confirm Djo's tunneling meta. Although he could be doing it as scum, but it is not a scum tell for him to be stubborn to the point where you start to disbelieve him. Hm, okay. If this is what he does as town, perhaps it's not valid to lynch him for it. I still demand he give other reads though. | ||
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On November 18 2012 16:16 Blazinghand wrote: Hm, okay. If this is what he does as town, perhaps it's not valid to lynch him for it. I still demand he give other reads though. Or rather, that he develop them and push cases other than me. IF he views me as his top scumread that's fine but he's avoiding any sort of accountability this way. | ||
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Look, there's one Blue left in this game. He alone knows his role and his results if he's an investigative role. Nobody here has the qualifications to determine if he should claim or not except himself. VTs claiming could force him out, and even worse, if everyone's like "yeah the blue should claim tonight" except for one guy, and the blue doesn't claim tonight, it will be alarmingly obvious to scum who the last blue is. This is simple policy-like stuff. VTs don't claim VT. the fact that this is even brought up outside of a newbie game (where people don't know this thing) or a themed game (where the setup might mean a mass-claim is necessary) is appalling. | ||
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On November 18 2012 16:44 Clarity_nl wrote: So you just admitted to not reading Djo's setup speculation at all. Yeah as a rule I don't read setup speculation ever | ||
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Really though the point is djoref's stuff was crap and not worth reading. Did I miss anything he said that was actually useful? | ||
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Mostly I'm looking at how people reacted to my claim. Town players are typically angered by it because they are like "oh shit this guy is a blue and is probably gonna get shot or RBed now wtffff" On November 14 2012 07:57 marvellosity wrote: I am absurdly angry at you if you are town, BH. We see responses like this from marv, but he eventually accepts it after many long, pointless arguments in which he's a little shit. Clarity, on the other hand is like this: On November 14 2012 08:14 Clarity_nl wrote: Blazing, you didn't HAVE to claim. I guess it's too late for that though, so let's leave that till post game. Do you still believe Zbo is scum, and who else do you have scumreads on? Give us as much information as possible this daycycle. Which I don't really like. At the time I was thinking "oh clarity is totes reasonable" though I saw it as scummy play from hapa to believe my claim so easily. I dislike that his chief critiques of me are stylistic, with stuff like this: On November 14 2012 06:04 Clarity_nl wrote: @ Blazing Well I'm working under the assumption that it's a time issue, being in two active mafia games. Cracking jokes is something you do on the side. You play mafia to play mafia, socializing is nice but it's not why I play mafia at least, guess I can't speak for others. If all you're doing is cracking jokes then that's anti-town, you don't agree? If you're going to be around to post 3 pages of filter without content, why not post 1 page of content instead, if you're town. On November 14 2012 01:45 Clarity_nl wrote: Blazing for the love of god use spellcheck or autocorrect or something and please stop posting one liners and address the case made against you. On November 15 2012 00:49 Clarity_nl wrote: God blazing. I understand you're posting on your phone but do you really not have auto correct or something? though the second one has, admittedly, some content. His attacks on me have focused on things like "scumslips" But here's the money shot: On November 15 2012 10:52 Clarity_nl wrote: Right, so where/how is he scum? You have 8 minutes. And I really can't make sense of this. Not at all. All game, Clarity equivocates with Hapa, and he does NOT like the idea of a Hapa switch, or even suggesting he's scum, when the pressure is on in the final minutes of D1. Check out how clarity interacts with Hapa D1: + Show Spoiler + On November 13 2012 11:08 Clarity_nl wrote: He was asking if anyone knew if he was a smurf. You didn't say "we don't know", you said "doesn't matter" On November 13 2012 11:16 Clarity_nl wrote: Yes I realize he asked before marv answered. How are your quotes not in context? You answer Hapa by saying it doesn't matter who he is, because reads within the current game are more important. But just now you asked about someone's meta, contradicting yourself. Please tell me where I am wrong. And this one deserves to be unspoilered: On November 13 2012 11:24 Clarity_nl wrote: If it is the behaviour compared to different games, that's meta. That's what meta means. Hapa asked if anyone knew if cross was a smurf. Why is there nothing to discuss? If you don't know he's a smurf or not you simply don't answer. If you do you do. Marv answered because he knew, case closed. The part I don't understand is why you say it's not important. No one was talking about deducting who he is, assuming he's a smurf. Because we see all three(!) scum interacting, with hapa fake-asking if cross is a smurf, and clarity defending that ask. It's not until later we see some sort of "aggressive" interaction with hapa: On November 13 2012 17:42 Clarity_nl wrote: Hapa, this still bothers me. I asked you what you thought about SnB's claim and if you thought it was bad for town, and you answered: You compared this to Cheese's claim from NMM XXX even though the situations are completely different. The only reason Cheese claimed was because he thought only VT's knew the VT flavor. So he was trying to claim without alerting scum. SnB just outright claimed VT. After I explain why it's different, you basically give me the same answer: The other thing I don't really like is the use of "theoretically yes" and "IMO" Whenever I've seen you post you tend to be direct and with conviction, but not this time. which is the most weak, piddling, gutless attack I've ever seen. And take a look at this following exchange: On November 14 2012 07:34 Clarity_nl wrote: I guess it's because I just started the post and ended it. I spellchecked but that's it. So I started out with "Yeah making a case on him isn't working" But I guess I did end up making a case on him, heh. I just wanted to put thoughts out there that weren't about BH, as I felt others were flying under the radar. What we see in this exchange is, imo, two scum "questioning" each other then building "rapport" with each other in public to appear to scumhunt. Look how genuine they seem together about this. He defends hapa in several places despite having a "null read" on hapa: On November 15 2012 06:41 Clarity_nl wrote: Please explain in your own words and without referring to other people's posts why you had an anti-town read on him, and explain why you didn't share this read. On November 15 2012 07:48 Clarity_nl wrote: I'd like to change this a bit though. Based solely on the fact that hopeless has been posting reads and answering questions clearly and concisely now. Whereas debears is nowhere to be found, his defense is lackluster and his case on hapa seems OMGUS. I also like this "lets implicitly trust hapa" post: On November 15 2012 09:55 Clarity_nl wrote: No I'll take your word for it, just wanted you to clarify. Basically, I just don't like the way clarity has interacted seemingly-friendly-like with, had a constant null-read on, yet constantly and aggressively defended hapa. This doesn't seem to me what clarity would do for someone he's "having trouble" getting a read on. I don't like it, I don't like it one bit. Originally this was gonna be about clarity reacting poorly to my claim, but now it's about clarity's interactions with hapa. I want someone to take a look at clarity's D1 filter also, but to me this looks like scum helping out other scum D1. Of course, I'd like to hear what clarity has to say on this as well-- and neither SnB nor Drojef are off the hook. Thoughts on them to come. | ||
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On November 18 2012 18:50 Kickstart wrote: Yeah snb played diff d2, cause he was gone if he didnt. Look where he has been now with the pressure off of him again - GONE. Wow he really bailed hard as soon as iamp started asking him about his dota. what is the deal snb | ||
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Mostly I don't like the way you shut down my hapa discussion close to the lynch deadline, or the fact that your response to every hapa case anyone made was to disagree with it, despite your occasional interactions with him that questioned him and you never giving an explicit townread on him. It seems like you were going to the mat for your godfather. | ||
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For now, I'm looking at SnB and Dro, who I consider the top 2 lynchables for tomorrow. | ||
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"the two sexiest players in this game besides myself are marv and bh. unless something weird happens, kill them first because they are sexy as hell, they attract women and get hit on in bars and everything. I'm seriously kinda gay for them, to be honest, they're just so hot. they probably have big penises, though I bet BH's is substantially larger and more manly" | ||
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also snb is a vet like I'm a sailor I ain't no sailor | ||
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enjoy | ||
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The fact that he personally isn't in a great position doesn't mean much for his plan being bad-- it wouldn't make him any worse off as scum. S&B # 1 lynch for tomorrow imo though, Drojef apparently has a tunnelling jubjub meta so what are you gonna do | ||
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Hm, that's a good point. I forgot about that. In fact, even a cop with two green checks can make this game massively more difficult for scum since that would bring us up to 5 confirmed townies out of 8 players tomorrow | ||
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I have never insinuated that _in my entire life_ and I am astonished you think I'd think that about you. I hold you in the highest esteem, sonny boyo lad child etc etc | ||
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On November 19 2012 04:58 Clarity_nl wrote: I think if you had given zbo another day he would've shined through as town. SnB on the other hand, is no where to be found, and when he is he's making small posts again. If we pressure him he'll suddenly post giant posts again though. hindsight is 20/20 but your reasoning on SnB is correct. | ||
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and somewhere in the middle someone will also say "wow i can't believe there's so much setup speculation instead of real case-making and analysis" | ||
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Really, though, the only person who has the right to initiate a mass claim is the blue. If he doesn't want to do it, he doesn't have to, and if he does want to do it, that's his prerogative-- and no-one else's. | ||
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On November 19 2012 08:15 Hopeless1der wrote: I lynch into Z-bo's wagon +1 | ||
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On November 19 2012 09:53 DarthPunk wrote: Blazinghands case against clarity is good... If BH is alive much longer we need to lynch him. I know what you're getting at but this fills my heart with salty tears of sadness. | ||
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Bah it's irrelevant anyways since i'm gonna get roleblocked. I can't imagine scum not roleblocking me honestly, even if they shoot me they should roleblock me anyways just in case i'm roleblocking them. | ||
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..yup | ||
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Towniest hopeless: he's our vigi. probably dead tonight iamp: been thinking smart and critically this game dp: consider this a read with modestly large error bars. I like DP. I like what he did D1 and I like that he understood my claim and has been reasonable on things like setup speculation. no-body, though, not even him is above suspicion clarity: you can swap him with kickstart. clarity has been thoughtful and useful but I don't like how he acted D1 and some people don't like how he acted D2. I would not lynch him D3 though. I guess he's been too damn smart and useful so far so we can't do this. waking up at 2:30 am earns him some credit to honestly-- and yes, I made a case on him. I don't like him. I don't like the fact that he's smart enough to fool me. Originally he was down just above drojef, but he doesn't deserve that today. KEEP AN EYE ON HIM. clarity is smart and if he's the scum this is probably how he'd seem right now. Keep an eye on this mofo kickstart: inactive, unhelpful, still don't know that he cares to play the game. "but BH what if he's just lazy town" well yeah that's why he's not the scummiest. He hasn't contributed except when earnestly pushed to-- and I don't like it. debears: I guess you could swap HIM with kickstart also, but essentially it boils down to two things I don't like about him, but a couple saving graces that keep me from saying "let's lynch debears today": he was off his town meta d1. not a huge amount, but some. I kinda agree with his thing that everyone on hapa is probably town, but it blinds him (or seems to blind him) and gives him an excuse for his reads that I don't like. really actually maybe he's townier than kickstart. I need to know more about kickstart. drojef: opting out of the discourse, but also has a tunnelling meta as town, so he escapes the noose today. SnB: we all know the deal. setup speculation with drojef. been playing like turd. he doesn't want to play the game and is trying to avoid taking stances. why don't you want to play, SnB? why not give reads and be accountable and do things other than tunnel me? This isn't like you at all. scummiest I get that some people disagree with me, but i'm probably living through the night so I have plenty of time to refine and interact etc. If scum kills me i'll be kinda astonished-- killing hopeless or even hunting for the blue would be a wiser decision if most people think what they think. if scum kills me though it's also the right move, since i'm the best player here. Yeah I had a rough start but i've got this covered. | ||
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All this is irrelevant anyways since scum would have to have some kind of aneurysm to not roleblock me | ||
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also ##vote: strongandbig | ||
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that hopeless is his only scumread during the action resolution period. he could have checked his scumread just to be sure. In any case, I can't find anything. If someone finds it let me know. | ||
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ah ok that's what that means, gotcha. of course I wouldn't really encourage snb's setup-fu when he could be making reads or like at least pretending to act town instead | ||
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On November 19 2012 11:21 Clarity_nl wrote: Your insistence on playing will looks so scummy to me, but marv said you're capable of it as town so I'll take his word for it. Seriously it looks like you're scum with a masterplan, and pride is getting in the way. wow there is just no pleasing you people is there. | ||
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##unvote ##vote: djodref | ||
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##vote SnB | ||
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On November 19 2012 12:59 Djodref wrote: Was that sarcasm ? My plan was quite good but I didn't take into account the Cop (I thought the cop was you when Z-Bo referred to the Cop for the first time, I thought that you had checked thrawn or BH N1) would not bring us confirmed townies with him. I'm quite impressed by this snipe from the mafia player and I didn't see it coming. But things should be easier now. Iamp, DP, Clarity, Kickstart, S&B The last scum is hiding among these players if I'm right about the setup. We have 3 shots to find him. Easy enough imo could you for like, even a moment, just shut up about the damn setup | ||
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But yeah S&B lynch today imo | ||
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That being said, I sat down with his filter, and I would not vote kickstart. I get a newbie town read from him, not a scum read. Some highlights from his filter that make me think he is town: When he first arrives at the start of the game, he responds to hapa's questioning with a direct question, one that basically only a newbie would act. (link) He thinks he's putting on pressure here. He speaks out against the SnB wagon and explains his motives for questioning hapa (link), then develops a case on hapa (link). He soft defends SnB (link) and then responds to my claim by focusing on a hapa lynch (link). He later directly butts heads with hapa (link) and suggests lynching both hapa and me (link). He later moves his vote onto hopeless, then DP. Eventually, when the big hapa switch comes, he eagerly jumps on the wagon. This suggests to me he was waiting for an opportunity to really lynch hapa, especially given how he went head-to-head with hapa for much of D1. I don't think this is what a newbie scum with hapa and crossfire would do. Hapa made himself visible in the thread and kickstart reacted reasonably to him, made a case, supported it, drew a lot of fire for it, and ultimately contributed to the hapa lynch in a way that many on the hapa wagon can't honestly say they did. Kickstart is a newbie, and hasn't contributed much in the past day, but I would not lynch him. | ||
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ส้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้ ส้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้ | ||
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Whatever alignment you are, I recommend strongly against conceding. Play the game. Analyze. I know you're capable of it. | ||
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On November 20 2012 02:12 strongandbig wrote: now that i think you're town i don't really want to win anymore because it means you win too you're like drazerk2.0 I understand the feeling, but you must realize a statement like that doesn't give me any reason to unvote you-- you could as easily say this as scum as town. If you're legitimate attempting to undermine the strong town victory that's currently under-way, remember that you have a win-con to play to. don't let emotions cloud your judgement. After all the hard and excellent work I've put in to win this game for the town I'd be pretty annoyed if you threw a tantrum and didn't help out. Of course you're probably scum and this is all an act but I owe it to you to at least discuss with you. | ||
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oh yeah right lol | ||
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Currently alive are 8 players, and counting out me and hopeless1, we have 6 potential lynch targets and 3 lynches to use. currently on the list is: Djodref, strongandbig, DarthPunk, Clarity_nl, iamperfection, Kickstart And any time we can make a solid town-read (as I currently have on kickstart) our odds of lynching the scum with our lynches get better. assuming we lynch SnB and he flips town, scum will shoot either me or hopeless and tomorrow it'll look like this: 1 blue + djodref, DP, clarity, iamp, kickstart which gives us 2 lynches left and 5 potential targets. If we lynch another guy, and he flips town, scum will shoot the other blue and it'll be a 3-1 MYLO with no confirmed townies. | ||
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In terms of "should DP be considered unlynchable" the answer is "absolutely not". Nobody is beyond suspicion or questioning. Thinking that way is dangerous and leads to us losing. I may not think kickstart is scum but that doesn't mean I'm gonna bank everything on that fact. Question everything. | ||
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Really, the setup speculation wouldn't even have been a problem if you like actually made reads and pushed cases. The point here isn't "oh setup speculation is bad" though that is true-- it's "oh, ONLY setup speculation is bad, drojef shoudl actually contribute and talk" and you're like "haha nop i'm just gonna tunnel and do setup speculation" Like, remember yesterday when you were tunnelling me and everyone except SnB was like "dude we're not lynching BH" and you're like "lawl nope" you have to realize that you need to actually scumhunt and analyze to play this game | ||
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??? I don't understand you | ||
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1IzNKIHhp0 Because it applies a lot to the way you play mafia. I don't know how you planned to push me into fake-claiming given that I'd already claimed JK and again I'll say that my critique of you isn't based on what you did, but what you didn't do. If you pressured me hard and setup speculated, but also scum-hunted and didn't opt out of the real discussion that took place D2, I wouldn't be having this conversation with you. Your tunneling (as opposed to just pushing a lynch-- tunnelling is about tunnel vision) and setup speculation, whether you meant it this way or not, let you opt out of giving reads and being accountable. | ||
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Today, 5/6 chance for the scum to survive -- then he shoots a blue tomorrow, 4/5 chance for the scum to survive -- then he shoots a blue at lylo, 3/4 chance for the scum to survive. This comes out to a 50% winrate for our valiant scum. If he is scummy-looking or gets hunted, this goes down, and if he's SnB, it goes way down. I personally think there aren't a lot of people on TL Mafia, or in this game, who will be able to keep it up for 3 cycles like this. But it's possible. It's not over till it's over | ||
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On November 20 2012 04:33 strongandbig wrote: i'd have to be pretty stupid to be playing like this as scum, wouldn't i I'm not sure that's a viable argument. It sort of makes sense, but if you think about it couldn't all scum just not contribute, then make posts like this? | ||
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On November 15 2012 10:11 Clarity_nl wrote: Yes, it's nonsense. But lynching him is not the answer. contain your rage for the next 49 minutes. Debears Hopeless Z-Boson These are your choices. Unvote the coinflip. | ||
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still eating here's a screenshot of dinner for proof | ||
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On November 20 2012 19:56 DarthPunk wrote: I am total lynch bait right now. Anyone pushing a lynch on me is fucking suspicious. This is the best sentence | ||
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As an aside, DP, I don't like that you prioritized another game, and I like even less that you mentioned it, and now that that game is over, you've still been low activity. It's not that it's particularly scummy, it's just unhelpful to town and honestly our job is to win. If you're get mislynched this game because you signed up for 2 mafia games, or even worse, because after the other one ended you decided you didn't care about this one, you'll look like an ass. Don't be that guy. You still get some credit for being a player who lynched Hapa. Most of your interactions with him (link)(link) seem like you and he are not scummbuddies though you have a couple interactions with him that seem weird (link). I don't like that you defend Crossfire (link) with little explanation and also put a townread on him with no explanation (link) or really any of your non-explaining this game on any players. It's disturbing and prevents people from getting reads on you. I think you're town, DP, but I'd like to REALLY think you're town. I've tried to save you before this game, you know. I just wish I had more to substantiate this read. And you're not providing it. | ||
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On November 20 2012 20:31 DarthPunk wrote: It's far too long. While you are here and obviously you have no aversion to posting. Tell me exactly why your vote is on S&B. It would be nice to have a side project whilst I build the case that will lynch djo... er I mean the final scum. kk one sec brb but if you could examine clarity cases that would be neat especially since your last thought on him was this: On November 18 2012 06:51 DarthPunk wrote: And I do NOT think his play has improved. If ZB somehow actually does flip town I want to lynch clarity. I will make an updated case at some point. On November 19 2012 09:53 DarthPunk wrote: Right. I caught up. Clarity whining about inactivity in this game is just silly. This is the opposite of an inactive game. The fact that clarity persists on spending so much time whining about inactivity when that is not happening bothers me. Also clarity has asked me to actually pursue scum reads as If I haven;t already. I had a major scum read on ZB and pursued it. I had a scum read on clarity and posted a case to a vitriolic reception. That's another thing. Clarity says I should make a case on him if he is my scum read. as if I have not already. I would like to know the town mindset behind spreading untruths and focusing far to much on inactivity when the game is not inactive. Blazinghands case against clarity is good. And the fact that clarity resorted to WIFOM to establish his townieness worries me. S&B is a town read. clarity and djo need to be looked at next. If BH is alive much longer we need to lynch him. On November 19 2012 15:10 DarthPunk wrote: lynch Djo clarity and S&B and I doubt we could lose this. THis game is a pain in the arse to keep up with. Far too many posts most of them are useless and are just repeating what has already been said. I am going to look through the filters of those three players and see if I can come up with anything. On November 20 2012 19:56 DarthPunk wrote: There are some spammers in this game who have fucking mass posted with little fucking content of value. (clarity) Who make this game a chore to read. //// I have a strong town read on S&B he is a mislynch. I want to lynch clarity or DJO. //// Top Scum reads. Clarity, Djo. I await the updated clarity case. | ||
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Surely if you really think clarity is scum you'd have written this case you keep on talking about, especially since you've read his filter. | ||
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On November 20 2012 20:37 DarthPunk wrote: Add. wishy washy and he has not much of substance. S&B sums it up rather well actually which only reinforces my scum read of him. Stop deflecting and answer the question. I steadfastly refuse to do anything for you that I don't want to do. Give us a nice summarized clarity case. You've been away for days, surely you had time to think about it. | ||
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Because it's more important the people who aren't confirmed town do so first, trout-muncher. | ||
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On November 20 2012 20:37 Djodref wrote: BH has always been confirmed and constantly showers is in glorious revelations from his deeply wise soul. FTFY | ||
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On November 20 2012 20:40 DarthPunk wrote: And hopeless is confirmed. You are close. But not confirmed. And there are situations in which we should probably lynch you. Especially after My last game. How am I not confirmed? 3 claimed blues. | ||
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On November 20 2012 20:42 DarthPunk wrote: I am making a case on DJO. Anything you need to know about clarity can be found in one of the three cases on him. Everything since then is more fo the same. You refusing to justify your vote is scummy or bad. Not sure which. lol this kid | ||
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On November 20 2012 20:45 DarthPunk wrote: Maybe marv will explain this later. He is a better player than you after all I like how your response isn't that *you* are a good player but that marv is. I'll admit he's a much better player than I am. But you, as you implicitly admit, have much to learn. I hope you've at least been reading the thread? | ||
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On November 20 2012 20:47 DarthPunk wrote: You are full of shit. ROFL. What you are saying is that you would like to push a lynch on me though? This is a legit question actually. | ||
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On November 20 2012 20:47 Djodref wrote: I wanna kill myself now... No, it would be impossible with a godfather and a cop. ah, thanks. how about that! | ||
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But hey, to each his own. | ||
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On November 20 2012 20:52 DarthPunk wrote: That doesn't mean you don;t have to answer why the fuck your vote is on S&B. Why should I answer? So you can get a read on me? Or so I can convince you? Right now I think I'm more interested in lynching clarity than SnB but before I go moving votes and posting a new case I'm trying to get people to take positions and make their own reads. I have a case on SnB here if you want it, but all it'll do is give a potential scum on his wagon something to justify his vote with. Unless you want me to try to convince you, I don't know what you're getting at. No need for swearing, btw. | ||
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I'm sorry to hear that. Let me know in the end-game if that's true or not. well, I await the djodref case eagerly. | ||
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DP is saying he is an easy lynch so scum will try to get him lynched and he's unlikely to be shot since having him around helps scum | ||
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On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote: Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts. I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have. MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play. Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you. ##Vote S&B On November 20 2012 03:25 Djodref wrote: On a personal note, I've like S&B defense during D2, maybe because I'm more emotional than rational, so I'm not totally sure of S&B being the last scum yet even if he is the right person to lynch at the moment. I'm very curious to see what are going to be his next contributions. I'll accept people getting lazy if they can provide me with a case that totally proves that S&B is the last scum. DOES ANYONE HAVE A BETTER LYNCH THAN S&B TO PROPOSE FOR TODAY ?? Awfully unsure for a guy who's voting to lynch the dude | ||
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Iamperfections' meta as scum is lurking and big gaps between small posts, besides defending himself. As Town he tends to flood with smaller posts but he's always in the thread and interacting with people. Bearing in mind GSL Mini III is an unusually extreme version of Iamperf's meta, it's still indicative-- in fact, Hapa catches him as scum that game based on meta with extreme ease (link). In this game Iamperfection is doing his typical "bury them in a mountain of posts!" style town play. He has periods of 2-3 hours where he'll post like 10 times, then he'll go away for ~8 hours then come back and do the same. This is how he plays as town. n terms of associative tells, he interacts with Hapa in a natural way that doesn't seem like they're scum together. I also like this read he makes on kickstart early on (link) that as scum he wouldn't want to. His suspicions of Hapa (link) tie in well with his willingness to last-minute votehop (link). Although he does defend crossfire here (link) I view that as more a point in his favor than against him, as Crossfire was a liability for the scumteam and was inevitably gonna be lynched. In particular his interaction with marv here (link) and his attempts to get crossfire to play the damn game here (link) and here (link) make it seem like he really genuinely think crossfire is town. Basically I don't see scum making a post like this: (link) or like this: (link). This is all consistent with a legitimate town-read on cross, which, given the scenario, is a bad move as scum. Cross WAS going to flip eventually and bussing him was optimal scum play. | ||
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Definitely town: iamp, kick probably town: dp Lynch: SnB, Clarity, Drojef I'm gonna sit down again with each of SnB, Clarity and Drojef, then make my vote. | ||
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On November 21 2012 08:09 Clarity_nl wrote: You've made me laugh for so many different reasons this game bh what can I say I am quite the jokester | ||
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On November 21 2012 08:21 strongandbig wrote: yeah so if you guys want to lynch me so i can go play chrono trigger, i won't mind clarity is the scum tho SnB as much as I hate to say it I kinda don't want to lynch you any more today You've generally been interacting with iamp as though he's a townie. Do you agree with my assessment of his play this game? I've enjoyed your town-read on kickstart, he definitely shouldn't be lynched. If we can nail down 3 town-reads, we win. | ||
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On November 21 2012 09:20 Kickstart wrote: You guys are killing me, letting SnB live far too long. Don't let him slip through another day and night cycle -_- I get what you're saying about SnB. I think for sure we'll have to end up lynching both him and clarity, then one of djodref/DP. If I can make a reasonable town read on one of those four though we can just lynch the remaining three and win easily. What are your thoughts on the four? | ||
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Today: lynch one from SnB+Clarity+Djo+DP Tonight: I'm shot Tomorrow: lynch one more from SnB+Clarity+Djo+DP Tomorrow night: Hopeless is shot Final day: Kickstart, Iamperfection, and the last 2 from the 4 scummy players are alive-- 3 town, 1 scum. Assuming we only mislynch until MYLO, we'll have a MYLO with you, iamp, and probably Djo+DP. I'm very sure scum will be shooting me and hopeless tonight and tomorrow night (though maybe not in that order). So we have 3 lynches into 4 players to find 1 scum. Any town or scum reads within those 4 will help us narrow it down. | ||
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##vote: Clarity_nl may the lord have mercy upon our souls | ||
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Use your final hour to make a strong town-read between Djo, DP, and SnB. If in fact you are town, you're a smart guy and I trust your reads. We'll lynch the other two that aren't your strong town-read, okay? | ||
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##vote snb | ||
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Well, you know what they say about hindsight. I personally will be voting SnB without fail tomorrow should he be so foolish as to let me live. Over the course of tonight, my last, I'm gonna give final reads and cases on all the remaining players in the game (or specifically link to existing reads/cases I've given) to help guide the town in my absence. Just because I'm confirmed town doesn't mean I'm right, but it does mean I'm trying to be right. | ||
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The point is you can't just rely on the setup to win you the game, and it doesn't matter if you claim you think the setup was going to win the game. We're playing mafia, and mafia isn't about... whatever your pages and pages of letters were about. But the thing is, even if you DID post all that, that's not really a problem if you were also playing the damn game. But you weren't. Like SnB, you were just tunneling without engaging in the town discourse, and so you can see how it's hard for people to make townreads on you. I like Clarity but I don't know how he could think you're town. We're lynching SnB first, but only just. | ||
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this was supposed to be a joke | ||
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the issue isn't the setup speculation per se but rather than it shut out other avenues of legit discussion | ||
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On November 21 2012 17:35 Djodref wrote: I understand that you want to keep S&B for your last mislynch. I would do the same if I was scum. honestly I also was thinking this when I read that | ||
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On November 21 2012 17:41 DarthPunk wrote: Exactly. If I was like LOL I thought S&B was scum all along or something I would be insta-lynched. Well you wouldn't say that. If you went after S&B you'd do it by asserting your own towniness, pointing out his scumminess, and saying "process of elimination". You'd be earnest but strident and push your thoughts aggressively. Alternatively, you'd attack kickstart or iamp. You wouldn't say "I thought S&B was scum all along" and I think both you and I know that. | ||
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On November 21 2012 19:11 DarthPunk wrote: He is not confirmed. Do you think it is realistic for the NK to not be you or Hopeless? What is the problem here? Once again you are being really weird and stubborn about a simple request. he isn't confirmed. so why do you think he needs to write a will | ||
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On November 21 2012 19:14 DarthPunk wrote: When I wrote Iamp I meant hopeless. That is the cause of the confusion. Ah, okay. carry on then | ||
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On November 21 2012 19:27 DarthPunk wrote: Ok, seeing as no one is talking all that much I am out. Hopefully we can get a load of info in the thread an hour before deadline. why not now? scum's shoot me anyways | ||
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On November 21 2012 19:41 DarthPunk wrote: He says as he sends in his night action. good analysis dp | ||
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Tomorrow: there will be 6 people alive. One of them will be Hopeless1. Do not lynch him. Lynch SnB. If he flips town tell him he's bad after he's dead-- he wont' be able to respond, huehuehuehue Day after tomorrow: there will be 4 people alive. They will be Iamp, Kickstart, DP, Djodref. Don't lynch Iamp or Kick. Why not to lynch Iamp: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16974347 Why not to lynch Kick: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16962740 Between DP and Djodref I like DP less but I think Djodref is scummier. That being said, question everything. Iamp and Kick COULD still be scum. Everyone should read the filters (yeah I know they're long but there's no need to be lazy) and make their own formulations and reads. D1 is where most of the content is, because that is before both scumbuddies flipped. Djodref's setup speculation is a null-tell. Same as SnB. The lack of scumhunting during said speculation is scummy. But the speculation itself is a null-tell. WE'd have figured out that me and hopeless were confirmed anyways, without their stuff. DO NOT let them tell you scum wouldn't setup speculate. Good luck my gentle friends. Trust no one. | ||
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but lynch snb | ||
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Good game everyone. Props to Hopeless1 for shooting Crossfire. Hapa you played well but got a tiny teeny bit sloppy. clarity sorry for mislynching you. The real reason I claimed halfway through D1 is my gf's grandmother died so she had to go to china. So basically I was helping her pack things up and stuff and couldn't really play / defend myself seriously. Obviously not an excuse for shitty play but it is what it is. And Town Blazinghand stands by what he does, even when it's bad, so I had to butt heads with anyone who disagreed with me, or else get mislynched. It wasn't pretty but I did what I had to with the time I had. Once the gf was gone I had more time. | ||
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On November 22 2012 17:17 Djodref wrote: I was hoping that my behavior would look suicidal enough for a scum to convince you that I couldn't be one. this is a tough one to pull off under even the best of circumstances. desperate times call for desperate measures but this is almost never a winning strat | ||
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On November 23 2012 06:53 strongandbig wrote: <------- didn't get lynched #swag #bigplays | ||
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I like to take a critical view of my own play, and I recommend you join me in doing so so we can both do better next time. | ||
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On November 23 2012 08:08 Z-BosoN wrote: But you came dangerously dangerously close to that. Djo could actually have pulled it off. Yes, we did come rather close to it-- with only 2 lynches left and two players to lynch into, I'm SURE Djo had a chance. What suggestions do you have for my play going forwards to avoid this in the future? | ||
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On November 23 2012 08:13 marvellosity wrote: we're talking post 1st cycle, right? ^_^ Yeah read my comments on the last page or two. My gf's grandmother died etc | ||
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On November 23 2012 08:14 Clarity_nl wrote: Blazing I think all the things I would consider "bad" from your play originated from your JK claim but you already said why you did that, so there's not much to say there. I guess maybe, when you are in a position where you are basically confirmed town, take advantage of it. I tried my best to take advantage of my confirmed town status, doing things providing reads, pushing cases, voting aggressively, and setting up the town with strong town and scum reads before I get shot. I was wrong a lot, but I'm not sure if "be less wrong" is good advice. | ||
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On November 23 2012 08:15 Z-BosoN wrote: Well, possibly reading more into the dead people. I found Clarity's lynch to be extreeeemely stupid as well. I also was screaming Djodref scum when I died, surely I had a reason? Aside from that I can't really say much, you had issues IRL and weren't playing like I've seen you play. And I had Djodref on my scum list, but you DO NOT lynch a guy the day he replaces in. This is a personal policy I follow-- though we can discuss the wisdom of it, I really don't like lynching replacements the first day. Also my vote was on SnB when clarity was lynched, though I suspect I personally am responsible for clarity's death since town was sheeping me. | ||
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On November 23 2012 08:16 marvellosity wrote: ah. sorry to hear it. I'm most curious how you went from protecting DP over me night 1 to not being sure he was town later. Like, nothing significant had changed. DP pretty much had to be town because of the first cycle. DP wasn't reading the thread-- I had him as my least townie town read for that. Given that Hopeless was confirmed town and Kickstart and Iamp were both screamingly town, I think it's reasonable that DP was my least sure town read when I died. | ||
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On November 23 2012 08:21 Z-BosoN wrote: I'm sorry if I made you angry enough for you to speak like that. I meant my comments to be more of a discussion. Seriously, I apologize. Sometimes I get carried away and don't think about the bigger picture of things. My condolences for your grandmother. dude it's np it's my gf's grandmother I don't even know her, but my gf was so high maintenance it was unbelievable | ||
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In any case I guess I should have had a stronger townread on DP but he basically didn't read the thread for a couple of days so it weakened. Djoref and SnB were still scummier for wasting all our time setup speculating so they both needed to be lynched. | ||
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On November 23 2012 08:26 marvellosity wrote: No, no, this is simply not a correct reflection of events. I concur with the taciturn lord marvellosity | ||
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On November 23 2012 08:36 Z-BosoN wrote: I got lynched because there were three people not reading/trying and just decided to sheep marv. I literally laughed when I saw debears use hapa's "gg-yo" post as an argument against me. How no one found that messed up is also an indicator of how people weren't reading. How no one read my case on thrawn properly is also a powerful indicator. I read it and dismissed it! | ||
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On November 23 2012 08:40 Z-BosoN wrote: I disagree heavily with not lynching replacements. If the guy he was replacing was hella scummy, and in 48 hours you manage to act scummily and provide zero to none reads, that's more information than you have on whoever you lynched on day one. Yes, Djodref played scummy during D2, but you can't hold a guy accountable for the actions of the guy he replaced in for. I gave him 72 hours, then called him scum. | ||
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On November 23 2012 08:49 DarthPunk wrote: This is a liberal interpretation of events. You called him scummier than me. and didn't really help me get a lynch on him as you should have if you were certain like I was. SnB was the scummiest, he was priority 1 | ||
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On November 23 2012 09:28 marvellosity wrote: but it won't improve his town play, only his scumplay, and the chances of rolling scum with someone are quite small. I'd rather his scumplay was catchable :D you say that now but when you and he roll scum together your heart will be filled with sadness. | ||
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When you posted the screenshot of your dota 2 game, you were stepping outside the bounds of the mafia game in a way that makes the game less enjoyable and warps it from what it's supposed to be. It's unsportsmanlike and I find it disappointing that you felt it was appropriate to do something like that. I hope you will refrain from such dishonorable, dishonest actions in any future games we have together-- and I understand that you didn't know what you were doing in this game. If you disagree with me on this matter, please let me know and we can discuss it. | ||
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I think once people start photographing plane tickets and taking screenshots of dota games, though, they've crossed the line. It may not be against the rules but I find it very distasteful. | ||
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On November 28 2012 11:16 DarthPunk wrote: If people don't want to here excuses about 'inactivity' maybe it shouldn't be brought up so damn often. I have been accused of being inactive in almost every game I have played. Often it is because of my timezone or other IRL commitments. Should I not explain why I am not in the thread whenever people call me out for it? Feel free to make explanations for your inactivity, I'll just read through your previous games and see if it's a normal activity level for you. If you post a photo diary of your day I'm gonna be mad though. | ||
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Screenshots and photos I will not ignore, but actively call out as against the spirit of mafia in any game I played. Mafia is a guessing game of epic proportions, not a photoshop game of epic proportions, and definitely not an honor system game of epic proportions. | ||
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Mafia should be limited to what goes on in the thread, and when you try to react to bring in out-of-thread information to prove your in-thread activities you are not playing the game because there's no real response to that. And do you really think your personal honor system makes sense? What happens when you have to choose between your honor system and playing to your win-con? Why not lie as scum? I don't buy it for a moment that your system is less restrictive than mine. I'm infinitely more honest about mafia than you are because I don't mention out-of-game stuff, I don't take photos and screenshots of things to "prove" why I was AFK and I don't derail the thread with it. I'll never be put in a situation where i have to choose between "honor" and my win-con because my philosophy, which is to ignore and treat as null (not scummy or townie) anyone's excuses prevents the out-of-game from interacting with the in-game. My case against you this game had nothing to do with your activity level, and everything to do with how you spent your time-- tunnelling me uselessly and speculating about the setup with drojef. I don't care about your explanations for being away from the thread, and I never will, except insofar as to rightfully call you out for being dishonest and unsportsmanlike when you turn Mafia into a game of Photoshop. | ||
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My viewpoint is the one that doesn't require that other people hold it to be effective, and will never be fooled by people who would take advantage of S&B's viewpoint. My viewpoint is also incapable of deceiving in the way people who pretend to hold S&B's viewpoint can. It might be unusual but it's also better. | ||
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