EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXX - Page 77
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
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Rad
United States935 Posts
On November 07 2012 14:58 Djodref wrote: Let's Alsn decide this by himself. I think it's really nice to have the story of everyone on how they reacted to Cheese claim. I like your story, I like daoud and obzy stories. I dont like Clarity reaction at all to the claim and I can see that sylverfyre has not given his thoughts yet... @djo I don't like leaving it up to alsn. He's not confirmed town and his decision is unreadable. Djo, you're the only confirmed town, so you decide. Should alsn claim or not? If you don't think so, I'll go with clarity vote because that's got the best possibility right now since no one else's lynch has an obvious possibility of confirming anything. If you decide yes, he should claim ("we don't need blues!" didn't you say something like that? so it shouldn't matter), then we'll see his reaction to it based on town pressure. Your call. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
Also I need to drive... I cannot decide now, I'll come back to you. But I can tell you that I guess that Alsn is going to claim. @ sylver I officialy consider you as part of the scumteam. What do you have to say to defend yourself ? | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 07 2012 08:57 Obzy wrote: Bleh. I had typed up a response to your post, Djo, but accidentally closed the tab  I don't want to retype it; but basically, I don't really understand why you'd want me to rationally discuss with Clarity when you intend to lynch him. I'm gonna post what I wrote so far (It's a long filter analysis up until about where Djo starts attacking Clarity).+ Show Spoiler + Okay so I'm typing this in a text file so if the formatting is stupid I apologize in advance lol. (sorry for the lol, da0ud ^^) With regards to Clarity and why he is scum: I am going to spoiler this because I'm basically just going through his filter point by point and taking things that I can comment on. + Show Spoiler + I think the two things to take away from all this though: - Debears defended Cheese - Djodref tunneling Cheese All three of these people are town. Just as a side note. (If somebody would like my thoughts on Djo's JK claim, I can deliver.) Last three pages was djo, you and me. Still no word from da0ud and sylver. I think you are wrong in saying Obzy is useless. He might not have posted a lot but he makes good points or asks decent questions when he does, maybe you feel that way because he's biggest post is directed at you? This was in response to debears asking Clar if anything stood out as weird - I don't really think it's particularly important, but I thought it funny that he commented he didn't think I was useless at that time period. [With regards to Clar's list of reads] Considered Djo slightly scum, null on deb, null on Cheese. Slightly town on myself. So with all that said, I only have two slight scumreads on Alsn and Djo, I am no longer suspect of Alsn, at least not as much. Although he seems to have a hard on for debears and djo he's making decent points and trying to further conversation. Cool, so Alsn was down with debears and Djo. Mental note I guess. Cautions Rad about the perils of not having any reads - Ehn Comments at 16:22 Nov4 that he'll be making a case (or multiple) that day, to Djo. Specifically namedrops Hapa and comments he'll ignore the advice people follow, taking issue with its quality. (Apologizes later.) (In a response to Djo): On November 04 2012 17:20 Clarity_nl wrote: Top 3 choices in my eyes are Debears, Sylver and you. As for people who haven't answered my questions: Alsn, Cheese, Sylver. I'll have to look and see if he pushes Sylver at all. He mentions Cheese not looking scummy ~16ish hours before the deadline. Posts a defense from debears' post. On November 05 2012 02:54 Clarity_nl wrote: If you are town you can talk your way out of a lynch regardless. It's not like I would've posted my case an hour beforehand, right about now is when I would've posted it. I am currently working on a different case while also answering questions, so please bear with me. I will keep djo's case on hand in case I get lynched. I will post it before the deadline if it seems I'll die. Otherwise saving it for D2 Okay so apparently he had planned on posting a case on Djo today. That obviously will not occur unless da0ud claims JK or something, but w/e. I find the line "If you are town you can talk your way out of a lynch regardless" somewhat amusing; as a side note - I don't really know if he's talking about Djo or just in general. He posts a case on debears, that looks fairly legitimate if the knowledge that debears was VT didn't exist. (Votes DB at that time) - When debears asks him to post his case on Djo, he chooses not to, largely because he intends to on Day 2 or if he is going to be lynched. He (afterwards) mentions that he doesn't want to post a case on Djo if Djo won't be there to defend himself - I really don't like this. Why would you care if the person wasn't around to defend themselves if you think they're scum? And if you don't think they're scum, why would you post a case on them? I guess he can have points for Chivalry, but I think that he didn't want to post a case because he knew Djo was town. Clar has some commentary on how staying neutral isn't bad D1, I disagree with this, but I've already covered that in this post. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=379514¤tpage=40#785 (It happens to be the one that I mention not feeling comfortable about voting CC - this is still taking place before debears picks up that CC is trying to claim.) Then the CC claim stuff - By this point, I had voted Clar largely due to process of elimination. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=379514¤tpage=37#730 I liked Djo and debears' cases, I didn't like Clarity's case on debears, and between Clar and Sylv, I voted Clar. (I largely got my town read on db _because_ he hadn't gone and pointed out that I was sort of shitty and thus Mafia, despite having questioned me.) After CC's claim, Clarity mentioned that assumptions couldn't be made based on host behavior. This didn't make sense to me unless he was blue or scum, which he addressed later- I couldn't really find fault with that at the time, it seemed like he had just been thinking more than I had if he was VT yet asked about the VT flavor. He brings up a quote of mine telling him to convince me who _is_ scum, rather than trying to convince me that he isn't- he basically says that he's too busy defending himself to push his scumreads. On November 05 2012 09:28 Clarity_nl wrote: I think if Cheese flips red there's no way debears is scum.... 9 player mafia and scum busses eachother day 1? No way. Given that he'd posted a case on DB, this looks relevant; but if he knew Cheese had no chance of flipping red, it doesn't hurt the fact he's only actually made a case on debears (up until this point) at all. Gets angry at CC for not defending himself (I concur with this) but then votes him for his defense being WIFOM, over his scumread of debears? _And then says, On November 05 2012 09:42 Clarity_nl wrote: Wait, so you're voting debears to save yourself when you're VT? What the hell. Debears was his scumread and vote up until this point, and when CC changes his vote to be on Debears, he questions it. Why why why. There should be zero confusion if CC really was VT, given that he is basically agreeing with what Clarity had assumed up until this point; but once Clarity switches, he questions it. Clar mentions that the logical thing to do would be to jump on him to save himself, instead of Djo, then debears, then him. Djo is town, debears is town, ??? The comment looks like it's trying to indicate that "Clarity must be town, CC did not considering jumping onto him at first" to me. I will try to continue this later tonight, but I'm done for the moment. I'm going to catch up a few posts in the thread and then be afk for a couple of hours (until my work day ends, I get home, and I finish eating dinner) - I wanted to get my point-by-point thoughts to Alsn before he had to o to sleep. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
Did you take the time to read the spoiler in Obzy post that I have just quoted ?? There is some serious scumhunting inside ! If you still doubt that Clarity is scum after this then you have VT confirmation bias  @ Obzy I did not take the time to read it in detail first but this is a very very nice analysis. Congrats ! I hope that you'll keep on playing this game  I have never been so sure of the scum team Clarity and Sylverfyre They are both suspicious of each other but never took any action against each other. Clarity express his volonty to write a case against sylverfyre but has almost no interactions with him and never posted his case against him. Clarity latest target was Obzy (and Obzy has fired back, OMG) but not sylver... Sylverfyre should have naturally voted Clarity D2 but it appears that he was more looking for an opportunity to lynch someone else. Please note how sylverfyre was shouting at my blue hunting with Clarity and Rad. I'm just waiting for Alsn claim to be sure that this game is over | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
I am a Cop I tried to investigate Djodref N1 but I got roleblocked. @ Djo, please post the reason why you think my claim is fake immediately. Djo, I really don't like the way you played this game. You had a scumread on me D1, fine. But everytime I retorted to your cases, you kept coming back with crappier and crappier and crappier points. You got me stuck in a loop where I would check on the game, have 10 questions pointed at me, 9 of which I've already answered previously. Then after all that, you complain that I am not scumhunting enough. Then you tell me to scumhunt, and immediately ask me more questions. I don't like the fact that you were so pushy about me claiming either, with all the contradictions that came with that. I don't like the fact that while there was a lot of doubt in people's heads, Djo claiming blue somehow made everything he said correct? The confirmation bias is through the roof. How are you guys not seeing it? I would like to ask everyone: Didn't it feel too easy? Wasn't it noticable that we were getting nowhere for the last 48 hours? Even when Djo gets urged to give me breathing space he ignores it. Even when he gets told to stop hunting blues he ignores it (which, btw, debears caught on to, it's why he stopped). I finally get a chance to make a case, I make one on Obzy, no one refutes it but somehow this makes it more likely I'm scum in people's eyes. Then Obzy makes a... genuine? response. I don't like how he went about things, how he waited for someone to make a case on him to tell us he doesn't want to play no more. Clearly he was around, he had time to rebute almost instantly after my case went up, yet he hadn't posted for 2 hours. Still, I am inclined to believe him. ##Unvote So where does that leave us? Well that's the thing, I'm not sure. Why am I not sure? Because everyone has focused on me for the last 3 days, and who's fault is that? Town has been running in circles all along, and we've gotten to the point where everything depends on me flipping red, which I will not. If Djodref has been so certain all along, why does he not scumhunt for other people, or allow others to do so? The expected reaction to this post: People will quote me hinting at me being VT. My response: For every hint that I'm VT you will find one that I am blue. I kept the ambiguity to keep information from scum, something Djo has actively avoided. I am claiming out of desperation, because this means it's all or nothing. Alsn needs to come out and claim and we need to figure it out today, if I get lynched I fear the game is over. Please do not assume Obzy is town, and please do not assume da0ud is town. Push Sylver harder and question Alsn, as he has not been in a long time. Djo, if your claim is legit like I think it is, I believe you needed to take a break man. Asking questions threefold, all your logical fallacy, the complete disregard of questions asked to you in return. I don't understand why you would play like this. Notice how Rad claimed he felt after you asked him questions in a loop for a day. You did this to me for 3 days straight. I hope we can salvage this, I truly do. | ||
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da0ud
Hong Kong252 Posts
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da0ud
Hong Kong252 Posts
Finally a very good defense post. If what you say is correct (let see if someone claim Cop like you), then to me, it leaves Alsn as the other one reacting like you to the CC claim. I consider his reaction slightly townier than yours. But well, it would make him scum. I still believe Sylver would be the second one. I still believe whatever you claim, lynching you is the best source of information for town. Let me try some assumptions and I'll see if it works or not | ||
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da0ud
Hong Kong252 Posts
If we lynch you and you a red : D3 we are 4v1 and I will go for Sylver If we lynch you are you are green : D3 we are 3v2 and it is LyLo. I will definitely go for Djodref. If he flips green then we lose and he will have killed town mostly by himself. If he flips red, we are 2v1 on D4, LyLo again and I will have to consider who Djo was trying to protect. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
1. Could you suffer 3 more questions before I use my trump card against you ? 2. What do you think of Alsn post that Rad have brought up lately ? 3. Do you have any breadcrumb or clue to support your cop claim ? 4. Did you find the post where you have lied ? | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 07 2012 17:20 da0ud wrote: Question : can the JK put himself in jail ? No, I have not this possibility, I have already asked marv ^^ | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
Thank you ! Right now, I know for sure that you are 100% scum. Nice fakeclaim by the way Unfortunately, I cannot use my trump card against you right now ;( but I'm going to explain to you why I knew you were lying about being blue when this game ends. But it's mainly based on the fact that it is less likely for a blue to ask your question to marv than for a VT. If all the VT here had doubts about you going ask the question to the host, I know that he is lying when he says he did this as a blue. | ||
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da0ud
Hong Kong252 Posts
On November 07 2012 18:55 Djodref wrote: @ Clarity Thank you ! Right now, I know for sure that you are 100% scum. Nice fakeclaim by the way Unfortunately, I cannot use my trump card against you right now ;( but I'm going to explain to you why I knew you were lying about being blue when this game ends. But it's mainly based on the fact that it is less likely for a blue to ask your question to marv than for a VT. If all the VT here had doubts about you going ask the question to the host, I know that he is lying when he says he did this as a blue. Why can't you say why I knew he was lying about being blue now ? Please don't retain information. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
The thing that would have happened is that you got no result for your investigation I'm curious to see what Alsn is going to say when he comes back... | ||
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da0ud
Hong Kong252 Posts
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 07 2012 18:58 da0ud wrote: Why can't you say why I knew he was lying about being blue now ? Please don't retain information. I cannot tell you why, I've already asked the host if I had the right to do this in case of a Clarity claim. He told me that it was not allowed to leak this info so you have to trust me on this one... I'm expecting Alsn to argue in my favor but we'll see. If you have some doubts, please check again the first reason I gave you for him not being a blue. | ||
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da0ud
Hong Kong252 Posts
On November 07 2012 18:59 Djodref wrote: By the way, you should not have said that you were roleblocked because you don't know it for sure. The thing that would have happened is that you got no result for your investigation I'm curious to see what Alsn is going to say when he comes back... Well if he was Cop and he cannot see if the person he wants to investigate is green or red, I think it is safe to assume he has been roleblocked.... | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 07 2012 12:05 Djodref wrote: I can at least give you a first reason why I'm sure Clarity is not blue. There is a second reason that I'm going to keep for myself at the moment. Please note how Clarity said, "marv told me" ! I knew this rule regarding the blue flavor as well but I knew it from the beginning. Marv didn't tell me anything about it, it's already in my role PM. Even if its a poor wording choice from Clarity, a blue Clarity would have understood that we share the same info and would have directly believed my claim at 100%. You can see that he is doubting it later in the thread. I hope this is enough to convince you that Clarity is not blue. So you can realize that he is either scum or very bad and stubborn VT. Here you go again | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
The reason I said "marv told me" was because that was the only way to remain ambiguous about my role. No, even if you said "I won't share the flavor" doesn't make you 100% confirmed. You claim to have this magical proof that my claim is false, and I claim anyway. Now you are saying you can't tell us until the game ends? I've already explained my reasoning for pming marv despite knowing the VT flavor. It's that I wanted to know if scum knew flavor, and more importantly, I wanted to know if VT knew that the others knew flavor. If I investigate you, and I get nothing back, the conclusion is I got roleblocked. Do not argue semantics with me. | ||
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