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On November 05 2012 15:02 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 08:32 Clarity_nl wrote:
I can do that too. I don't wanna pay for no porn man. I don't think that saying that proves anything, can't make an assumption based on the host's behavior. Cheese why did you claim VT? Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 08:45 marvellosity wrote:
To stop any shenannies - every player in the game knows the VT role PM. Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 08:58 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 05 2012 08:56 debears wrote:On November 05 2012 08:32 Clarity_nl wrote:
I can do that too. I don't wanna pay for no porn man. I don't think that saying that proves anything, can't make an assumption based on the host's behavior. Cheese why did you claim VT? Why would you think that doesn't prove anything. I didn't know everyone got the VT role pm? This sounds like you knew that everyone did I didn't want to assume things. I didn't know that either but I had considered it much earlier. I noticed the OP is different from my PM role. I don't like Clarity early reaction to Cheese claim. Among Rad, debears and Clarity, he is the only one to doubt Cheese's claim before Marv post. I think that Clarity is mafia and had the information beforehand (the information that the VT role PM was dispatched to everybody).
Djo, he explained himself pretty clearly, and what he said is true.
On November 05 2012 08:32 Clarity_nl wrote:
I can do that too. I don't wanna pay for no porn man. I don't think that saying that proves anything, can't make an assumption based on the host's behavior. Cheese why did you claim VT?
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On November 05 2012 14:41 debears wrote:
@Rad and Djo
What do you think of the mini case I recently made on Sylver for not voting his top scumread?
@ debears
You have a point but I don't think that it is that relevant. Sylver tried to vote you but there was obviously no momentum to get you lynched today. He was then convinced that Cheese and you was the scumteam and, at that moment, Cheese could be lynched. I think you were his primary target but he went for his secondary target instead because he couldn't get you lynched.
I kind of did the same thing. I wanted a Clarity lynch and it almost happened but then Alsn made his case, Cheese claimed and said
On November 05 2012 08:34 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Confirmed clarity as VT btw.
so this on top of my previous suspicion on Cheese made me think that Clarity and Cheese was the scumteam. I've made the stupidest mistake ever, the association case without flip information. After that, there was no more momentum for a Clarity lynch so I also went for my secondary target.
I would like your input on two points
- What do you think of Alsn case on Cheese ?
- What do you think of Clarity reaction to Cheese claim ?
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On November 05 2012 15:10 Rad wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 15:02 Djodref wrote:On November 05 2012 08:32 Clarity_nl wrote:
I can do that too. I don't wanna pay for no porn man. I don't think that saying that proves anything, can't make an assumption based on the host's behavior. Cheese why did you claim VT? On November 05 2012 08:45 marvellosity wrote:
To stop any shenannies - every player in the game knows the VT role PM. On November 05 2012 08:58 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 05 2012 08:56 debears wrote:On November 05 2012 08:32 Clarity_nl wrote:
I can do that too. I don't wanna pay for no porn man. I don't think that saying that proves anything, can't make an assumption based on the host's behavior. Cheese why did you claim VT? Why would you think that doesn't prove anything. I didn't know everyone got the VT role pm? This sounds like you knew that everyone did I didn't want to assume things. I didn't know that either but I had considered it much earlier. I noticed the OP is different from my PM role. I don't like Clarity early reaction to Cheese claim. Among Rad, debears and Clarity, he is the only one to doubt Cheese's claim before Marv post. I think that Clarity is mafia and had the information beforehand (the information that the VT role PM was dispatched to everybody). Djo, he explained himself pretty clearly, and what he said is true. Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 08:32 Clarity_nl wrote:
I can do that too. I don't wanna pay for no porn man. I don't think that saying that proves anything, can't make an assumption based on the host's behavior. Cheese why did you claim VT?
@ Rad
Did you imagine one single instant that marv has sent the VT role flavor also to the mafia members ? I didn't, Cheese didn't and debears didn't. So why would have Clarity such doubts ?
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On November 05 2012 15:02 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 08:32 Clarity_nl wrote:
I can do that too. I don't wanna pay for no porn man. I don't think that saying that proves anything, can't make an assumption based on the host's behavior. Cheese why did you claim VT? Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 08:45 marvellosity wrote:
To stop any shenannies - every player in the game knows the VT role PM. Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 08:58 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 05 2012 08:56 debears wrote:On November 05 2012 08:32 Clarity_nl wrote:
I can do that too. I don't wanna pay for no porn man. I don't think that saying that proves anything, can't make an assumption based on the host's behavior. Cheese why did you claim VT? Why would you think that doesn't prove anything. I didn't know everyone got the VT role pm? This sounds like you knew that everyone did I didn't want to assume things. I didn't know that either but I had considered it much earlier. I noticed the OP is different from my PM role. I don't like Clarity early reaction to Cheese claim. Among Rad, debears and Clarity, he is the only one to doubt Cheese's claim before Marv post. I think that Clarity is mafia and had the information beforehand (the information that the VT role PM was dispatched to everybody).
This is a good, point. Let's look in depth how people reacted to this claim.
I took me a long time to actually understand how this was actually so bad a claim (apart from the fact it was not necessary as he was not in danger) because I jumped over a few pages in order to participate to the vote. I did not see the mod post stating that everyone received the spoiler of the VT PM.
Now it makes sense to rewind and see how did find it a null claim before Marv jumped in.
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On November 05 2012 15:12 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 14:41 debears wrote:
@Rad and Djo
What do you think of the mini case I recently made on Sylver for not voting his top scumread? @ debearsYou have a point but I don't think that it is that relevant. Sylver tried to vote you but there was obviously no momentum to get you lynched today. He was then convinced that Cheese and you was the scumteam and, at that moment, Cheese could be lynched. I think you were his primary target but he went for his secondary target instead because he couldn't get you lynched. I kind of did the same thing. I wanted a Clarity lynch and it almost happened but then Alsn made his case, Cheese claimed and said so this on top of my previous suspicion on Cheese made me think that Clarity and Cheese was the scumteam. I've made the stupidest mistake ever, the association case without flip information. After that, there was no more momentum for a Clarity lynch so I also went for my secondary target. I would like your input on two points - What do you think of Alsn case on Cheese ?
- What do you think of Clarity reaction to Cheese claim ?
If your top scum read has a chance to be lynched, you jump all over that bandwagon ASAP. Jumping off cheese and onto debears either gets debears lynched or cheese lynched. Staying on cheese gets cheese lynched 100%. Jumping to debears at least gives debears a chance to be lynched. If debears is your top scum read, and you're town, you should jump on him in that scenario.
Concerning alsn's case on cheese, I'll look into it tomorrow.
Concerning clarity's reaction, I think it was completely fine and reasonable. Asking what his motivation was is the proper move, and voting him after he gave a purely WIFOM argument is also a good move.
Ok, going to go relax for a few and watch some shows before bed. Might jump on and post more if I see activity, might not. Be on tomorrow though of course.
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On November 05 2012 15:14 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 15:10 Rad wrote:On November 05 2012 15:02 Djodref wrote:On November 05 2012 08:32 Clarity_nl wrote:
I can do that too. I don't wanna pay for no porn man. I don't think that saying that proves anything, can't make an assumption based on the host's behavior. Cheese why did you claim VT? On November 05 2012 08:45 marvellosity wrote:
To stop any shenannies - every player in the game knows the VT role PM. On November 05 2012 08:58 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 05 2012 08:56 debears wrote:On November 05 2012 08:32 Clarity_nl wrote:
I can do that too. I don't wanna pay for no porn man. I don't think that saying that proves anything, can't make an assumption based on the host's behavior. Cheese why did you claim VT? Why would you think that doesn't prove anything. I didn't know everyone got the VT role pm? This sounds like you knew that everyone did I didn't want to assume things. I didn't know that either but I had considered it much earlier. I noticed the OP is different from my PM role. I don't like Clarity early reaction to Cheese claim. Among Rad, debears and Clarity, he is the only one to doubt Cheese's claim before Marv post. I think that Clarity is mafia and had the information beforehand (the information that the VT role PM was dispatched to everybody). Djo, he explained himself pretty clearly, and what he said is true. On November 05 2012 08:32 Clarity_nl wrote:
I can do that too. I don't wanna pay for no porn man. I don't think that saying that proves anything, can't make an assumption based on the host's behavior. Cheese why did you claim VT? @ RadDid you imagine one single instant that marv has sent the VT role flavor also to the mafia members ? I didn't, Cheese didn't and debears didn't. So why would have Clarity such doubts ?
What if clarity PM'd the host asking about this before the cheese incident? What if he just realized that you can't read into the flavor too much because, well, it's true, you can't read into the flavor too much? Why must "he's scum!" be the answer? Null read to me.
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On November 05 2012 15:14 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 15:10 Rad wrote:On November 05 2012 15:02 Djodref wrote:On November 05 2012 08:32 Clarity_nl wrote:
I can do that too. I don't wanna pay for no porn man. I don't think that saying that proves anything, can't make an assumption based on the host's behavior. Cheese why did you claim VT? On November 05 2012 08:45 marvellosity wrote:
To stop any shenannies - every player in the game knows the VT role PM. On November 05 2012 08:58 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 05 2012 08:56 debears wrote:On November 05 2012 08:32 Clarity_nl wrote:
I can do that too. I don't wanna pay for no porn man. I don't think that saying that proves anything, can't make an assumption based on the host's behavior. Cheese why did you claim VT? Why would you think that doesn't prove anything. I didn't know everyone got the VT role pm? This sounds like you knew that everyone did I didn't want to assume things. I didn't know that either but I had considered it much earlier. I noticed the OP is different from my PM role. I don't like Clarity early reaction to Cheese claim. Among Rad, debears and Clarity, he is the only one to doubt Cheese's claim before Marv post. I think that Clarity is mafia and had the information beforehand (the information that the VT role PM was dispatched to everybody). Djo, he explained himself pretty clearly, and what he said is true. On November 05 2012 08:32 Clarity_nl wrote:
I can do that too. I don't wanna pay for no porn man. I don't think that saying that proves anything, can't make an assumption based on the host's behavior. Cheese why did you claim VT? @ RadDid you imagine one single instant that marv has sent the VT role flavor also to the mafia members ? I didn't, Cheese didn't and debears didn't. So why would have Clarity such doubts ?
Also, djo, just realized your question here could be considered blue hunting. If I DID realize it before cheese's argument, that suggests I'm scum or blue, right? Since a VT couldn't possibly realize this, according to you? Just wanted to point that out.
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On November 05 2012 08:28 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Go to the OP. Click under Vanilla Townie. Read the end of that vote post. Realize.
Can someone explain me what he meant here ?
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@ Rad
No, I'm just saying that your reaction to the claim differed from Cheese and debears reaction to the claim and that Clarity one was also different. From your behavior, I understand that you want to protect the blues, but Clarity behavior was different and especially suspicious because he didn't have a strong scumread on Cheese beforehand.
Cheese was one of the guy having not answered his question on the list but Clarity had nothing else against him so he wasn't suspicious in his eyes. I find it quite convenient that he starts to get suspicious of Cheese just after Alsn case (Cheese was showing almost the same behavior as himself by the way) when he is on the verge of being lynched.
When you take this into account, I don't see why Clarity would have doubted Cheese claim like this.
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On November 05 2012 15:30 da0ud wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 08:28 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Go to the OP. Click under Vanilla Townie. Read the end of that vote post. Realize. Can someone explain me what he meant here ?
Mr. Cheesecake, being a VT, got a post that explains that he's a Regular Fapper (VT). He noticed that the OP did not have this information in the Vanilla Townie spoiler. He then assumed that no one else but VTs had this information. In order to somehow get all other VTs on the same lines (go VT power I guess), he tried to throw that info out as a sort of town tell that only VTs would pick up. Unfortunately, he didn't realize that every single person in the game got the information that VTs are Regular Fappers.
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On November 05 2012 08:32 Clarity_nl wrote:
I can do that too. I don't wanna pay for no porn man. I don't think that saying that proves anything, can't make an assumption based on the host's behavior. Cheese why did you claim VT?
Even though Clarity, explained why he said that, I think this post is still very odd.
He said that in such a condescending manner, like : "yeah whatever, i can claim as well, it doesn't prove anything, cause everyone know the VT's role anyway..."
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On November 05 2012 15:34 Rad wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 15:30 da0ud wrote:On November 05 2012 08:28 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Go to the OP. Click under Vanilla Townie. Read the end of that vote post. Realize. Can someone explain me what he meant here ? Mr. Cheesecake, being a VT, got a post that explains that he's a Regular Fapper (VT). He noticed that the OP did not have this information in the Vanilla Townie spoiler. He then assumed that no one else but VTs had this information. In order to somehow get all other VTs on the same lines (go VT power I guess), he tried to throw that info out as a sort of town tell that only VTs would pick up. Unfortunately, he didn't realize that every single person in the game got the information that VTs are Regular Fappers.
Thanks I got it as well, usually indeed the OP posts shows the real roles, or the day1 post adds a spoiler at the end of it.
I think it is pro-scum to have given them the VT role in their PM while not letting the VTs themselves know about this fact....
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It's not that he didn't realize it, it's that he didn't know it. And it is not natural to think that the flavor for the VT role PM has been given to everybody, especially for a newbie like Clarity. This on top of the precedent cases against him.
He is most certainly scum !
@ Rad
Did you see how he avoided to discuss with me after this post + Show Spoiler +On November 04 2012 17:29 Djodref wrote:
Wouldn't you mind to discuss what you have against me right now ?
I'm going to have to sleep before the deadline and I don't want to have to defend your case against me while waking up and catching the thread. Plus it's going to be likely that I need to decide my vote at this time so I would prefer to focus on analysis rather than defense at that time.
I find it odd that you don't want to go after Cheese as well. He should be looking quite scummy in your eyes right now because he didn't answer your question. Also, if I want to sum up his contribution so far, he is just tunneling me after an OMGUSy FoS on me.
If we have a jailer, I would like him to block Clarity.
If we have a cop, I would like him to invest someone esle (because of framer).
If we have a medic, I wouldn't mind protection for the night.
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On November 05 2012 15:51 Djodref wrote:It's not that he didn't realize it, it's that he didn't know it. And it is not natural to think that the flavor for the VT role PM has been given to everybody, especially for a newbie like Clarity. This on top of the precedent cases against him. He is most certainly scum ! @ RadDid you see how he avoided to discuss with me after this post + Show Spoiler +On November 04 2012 17:29 Djodref wrote:
Wouldn't you mind to discuss what you have against me right now ?
I'm going to have to sleep before the deadline and I don't want to have to defend your case against me while waking up and catching the thread. Plus it's going to be likely that I need to decide my vote at this time so I would prefer to focus on analysis rather than defense at that time.
I find it odd that you don't want to go after Cheese as well. He should be looking quite scummy in your eyes right now because he didn't answer your question. Also, if I want to sum up his contribution so far, he is just tunneling me after an OMGUSy FoS on me. on page 31 ? I cannot believe that you don't see this as a big scumtell. Please note that I didn't request him to post his case, I just wanted us to discuss as we had both the time to do it. If we have a jailer, I would like him to block Clarity. If we have a cop, I would like him to invest someone esle (because of framer). If we have a medic, I wouldn't mind protection for the night.
What would blocking Clarity change ?
I would imagine blocking him to avoid him killing someone tonight, but there is another scum person so someone would get killed anyway.
If there is another reason, please enlighten me.
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On November 05 2012 15:51 Djodref wrote:It's not that he didn't realize it, it's that he didn't know it. And it is not natural to think that the flavor for the VT role PM has been given to everybody, especially for a newbie like Clarity. This on top of the precedent cases against him. He is most certainly scum ! @ RadDid you see how he avoided to discuss with me after this post + Show Spoiler +On November 04 2012 17:29 Djodref wrote:
Wouldn't you mind to discuss what you have against me right now ?
I'm going to have to sleep before the deadline and I don't want to have to defend your case against me while waking up and catching the thread. Plus it's going to be likely that I need to decide my vote at this time so I would prefer to focus on analysis rather than defense at that time.
I find it odd that you don't want to go after Cheese as well. He should be looking quite scummy in your eyes right now because he didn't answer your question. Also, if I want to sum up his contribution so far, he is just tunneling me after an OMGUSy FoS on me. on page 31 ? I cannot believe that you don't see this as a big scumtell. Please note that I didn't request him to post his case, I just wanted us to discuss as we had both the time to do it. If we have a jailer, I would like him to block Clarity. If we have a cop, I would like him to invest someone esle (because of framer). If we have a medic, I wouldn't mind protection for the night.
Your consistency is terrible.
On November 05 2012 11:03 Djodref wrote:
I'm going to prepare a new case on Clarity before the end of N1. I might also have a case for someone else, I need to do some reasearch first and Ill keep this as a surprise ^^
So you can do it but clarity can't? He at least told you that he had a case against you but he doesn't want to discuss it. I've already shown I have issues with his decision and I pushed for him to post it. But you just spit out "I might have a case, it'll be a surprise!" How is that better than clarity?
I can't wait for both of your cases! They'll be so enjoyable, especially yours, cause I have no idea who the hell you're wanting to target but you think it's worth keeping secret.
I recommend no blues listen to any of djo's suggestions at the moment.
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@ daoud
You are right but this kind of reasoning could lead us into a WIFOM hell.
In my honest opinion, Clarity is very likely to be scum, so a possible jailkeeper would have good chances to prevent him from killing. Maybe the mafia is going to listen to me as well and use the other member to carry the night kill, maybe they are going to use Clarity anyway, maybe I'm totally wrong and Clarity is town. I don't know and I don't even know if we have a jailkeeper but I would say that it's the best thing for him to do.
Anyway, it's down to the jailkeeper decision (if he exists), he could also decide to jail me to give me protection. I wouldn't mind this 
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On November 05 2012 16:01 Rad wrote:<snip> Your consistency is terrible. Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 11:03 Djodref wrote:
I'm going to prepare a new case on Clarity before the end of N1. I might also have a case for someone else, I need to do some reasearch first and Ill keep this as a surprise ^^ So you can do it but clarity can't? He at least told you that he had a case against you but he doesn't want to discuss it. I've already shown I have issues with his decision and I pushed for him to post it. But you just spit out "I might have a case, it'll be a surprise!" How is that better than clarity? I can't wait for both of your cases! They'll be so enjoyable, especially yours, cause I have no idea who the hell you're wanting to target but you think it's worth keeping secret. I recommend no blues listen to any of djo's suggestions at the moment.
@ Rad
There is a big difference between day and night. During the day, we should not retain any information because we need the maximum to get a correct lynch. During the night, the mafia team is deciding who to kill and they should prioritize the players which are on their tracks. So I think it's ok not to tell right now who would be my secondary target because I might die for it. Do you see the difference ?
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Even if I am wrong and that my secondary target is town, this player is going to have plenty of time to defend himself tomorrow. So I don't see the harm in it
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Out of topic question :
I have never been scum in my previous games (and this one doesn't matter cause N1 has just started - so don't take this as a claim, even if i were scum I would probably not know...). Thus, I am wondering if only one of the scum team decides to kill or they all conduct the act together ?
If only one kills, it would make some sense indeed to put Clarity in jail.
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@ daoud
Usually the scum team decides which player is going to carry the night actions. Any of them two could carry the KP but they have to choose one of them.
If there is a framer, could the goon carry the framing action ?
If there is a roleblocker, could the goon carry the RB ?[/green][/b]
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EPT
