EPTWhose Line Is It Anyway? Mafia! - Page 2
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On November 02 2012 10:03 Adam4167 wrote: He will not, but you will. Really? If you think I'm scum make a case, or post something else than that, that only serves to fuck the shit up if you come out of nowhere to FoS me. | ||
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gonzaw
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I'm stressed as fuck right now I'll go eat something. | ||
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gonzaw
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On November 02 2012 10:12 Keirathi wrote: lol @ gonzaw What did you expect me to do? I said 3 hours ago that I was going to vote for BKE unless people would consolidate onto you. Yea, my vote was at the end of the day, but its not like I didn't say I wasn't going to consolidate if I needed to. The only other option was to just not vote and get modkilled; is that what you wanted? I don't understand the faux anger. How about not coming with a "ninja-vote" right before the deadline and vote before that? When I was skimming the thread I was too busy trying to figure out the Mementos/BKE issue so I didn't pay much attention to it, but I kind of thought you were getting modkilled/replaced like that Djingu guy. Why didn't you vote BKE when you made that huge post saying you wanted to lynch BKE for instance? Why did you wait until the last second to vote? Adam, I know the restriction fucked things up so I decided to make a post as I went along and post it right before the deadline It's a huge post that's there at the deadline so I can't believe you could fucking miss it On November 02 2012 12:01 Adam4167 wrote: Lets take a good look at what just happened regarding Gonzaw: His reads are as follows - So to summarise - happy to lynch Myself or Mementoss, claims to not be sure on BKE, leaning 'noob' town. He reenters the thread right here, 08:58: At this point there are votes are 4 on Mementoss (Chez, Myself, BKE and Crossfire), placing a vote right here would put Mementoss to 5 votes first and completely decide the lynch, as BKE would need 6 votes to take the lead. Then he proceeds to get himself an hour timeout, but keep in mind this does not exclude him from voting at any point. Complying with his ban, he falls silent. He resurfaces at 09:41 in the voting thread to unvote Keirathi: This proves that he is still around, and yet he still keeps his vote on Mementoss withheld. Five minutes later, in comes Kierathi and votes for BKE. Finally, at 9:56, Gonzaw smacks his (now useless, as Mementoss would need 6 votes to pass BKE) onto Mementoss, avoiding a modkill and wasting his vote. You are just retelling what I did. How's this any helpful? He could not vote against BKE to save Mementoss because he had previously said that he found him to be 'noob' town, leaving him with this as his only course of action to avoid hanging his teammate or a modkill for failure to vote. I was planning on voting BKE until I saw the Keirathi vote after F5ing it and after that I didn't really know what to do, but after that I thought BKE had much more chances of flipping town considering those circumstances (Keirathi hammering him right before the deadline when he could have voted him way before, like when he made the case against him). Right now you are using confirmation bias. You are assuming Mementos is scum and I are scum and making up a story because of that. That's not how it works Adam. Scum. He dies tomorrow. No. Every single time I'm town people FoS me out of nowhere but I don't get misslynched and I don't plan this game to be my first misslynch either, so you better come up with better reasoning other than just restating what I did and making wild speculation while conveniently ignoring the posts where your theory falls apart. Also Adam, you were here right before the deadline (you posted that "He won't but you will" comment). Why didn't you try to convince other people to lynch Mementos? Why did you step aside in the sidelines and watch town destroy itself and then as soon as the deadline comes you accuse us of the BKE misslynch like you had nothing to do with it? You werehere and did nothing. Here, these are the only posts before the deadline (1 hour or so) you did: On November 02 2012 08:55 Adam4167 wrote: Jep, I honestly believe BKE to be town, I have been on the wrong side of a BKE lynch before, he makes literally no sense and sticks to his guns about it, which is what I'm seeing more of here. On November 02 2012 09:04 Adam4167 wrote: Well, inconvenient yes, but not beyond repair, he can still vote. You think BKE is town but you don't even try to stop his lynch, even though you saw him having 3 votes and apparently you knew Keirathi would come and place his 4th vote on him (since you accuse me of the same thing). The guy you think is town will likely get lynched (again because of the Keirathi vote, at least in your mind) and you do nothing, absolutely nothing but sit there and wait for BKE to get lynched. If you cared about the lynch you'd be here convincing people to switch onto Mementos and away from BKE. You would be convincing BH to vote Mementos instead of BKE (since BH was active all the time) but you do nothing. You don't even try to convince me, the guy that had the "definitive vote" (at least until Keirathi came back) to vote Mementos either. That's apathy to the lynch Adam, and it's what scum do. Right now you think I'm scum out of a sudden because I voted after Keirathi, conveniently ignore the post where I share my thought process with town later (unless you think I made that post in 2 minutes after I voted Mementos), and post no reasoning behind me being scum at all other than that fallacy of yours. Your only contributions on D1 where some slight pressure on BKE which you then completely ignored and just brushed him off as "town", and a small case on Mementos. The worst of all is that you didn't even push Mementos that much, you just made some comments on his Keirathi case, made that inital case of yours and parked your vote on him and that's it, you made very little effort in getting lynched even when there was a possibility he wasn't lynched (for instance when you were active in that last 1 hour). There's no way you wouldn't try to push a Mem lynch right before the deadine if you really cared to lynch him as town. For D2 if I'm still alive I'll be looking at Adam, Mementos and Keirathi. If I'm optimist then all 3 of them are scum....although meh I get the feeling that may not happen (just like in every game of mine where I fuck up those multiple-reads), but I think at least 2 of them are scum. If they were all scum the lynch would see kind of weird....although it'd make sense. Adam would bus Mementos early in the day, but once votes keep piling on him he wouldn't make a 180º and decide to lynch BKE instead of Mem because he even said BKE was likely town. So he keeps his vote on Mementos but doesn't really try to get him lynched, which is what happened in that last hours of D1. Maybe in their QT they told Keirathi not to vote BKE and to have him hammer him in the end so Adam doesn't have to unvote Mem and hammer BKE (which would "out" him as scum). Since Keirathi already said he'd prefered a BKE lynch over Mementos (and said Mem was town I think..?) he could brush off the suspicion later, and Adam would help keep suspicion off him like he's doing now (shifting the suspicion back to me). It certainly makes sense to me, although it's kind of convoluted. Adam: What I said above Keirathi: What I said earlier. I don't see him care so little as town. I don't see him making his vote 10 freaking minutes after the deadline and not before (to pressure, to make people know who he wants lynched, etc what normal townies do). His demeanor kind of "seems" townie in a way, like he doesn't care if people FoS him....but that play is completely different than what I've seen from him before (he's VERY active in discussion) and he wouldn't just not care about anything like he does now. Right now he seems to not give a fuck and just coast through the game, which town Keirathi would obviously not do. Maybe it could be attributed to him finding the restriction too difficult to handle so he wouldn't try that much. But if that was the case he would at least go the BH path (not give a shit about the restriction) or explicitly tell us he's not contributing much because of the restriction, so I don't think that's likely (plus if that's true he should start being heavily active on D2 and contributing, which would be basically the only way to convince me he's town, so he would have no problems doing that if he's town, right?). Mementos:Although I'm not too sure about him being scum like I said in my deadline-post, Adam and Keirathi being scum point towards him being scum by association in my mind. He didn't really contribute much other than the Xfire vote and the Keirathi case (and FoSing BKE later). Again his XFire vote was "bad", and maybe his BKE vote was OMGUS to avoid getting lynched. I didn't really see him push Keirathi that much after he made that case either. He's likely scum because of that There are also some other players that are shifty, like the Django guy who got replaced, and now I'm a little worried about Xfire. XfireHe seemed eager in early D1 and I thought he was likely town because of it...but damn his activity and contributions heavily dropped from mid-D1 ever since. Yes, he spent most of his early posts pressuring some people and "posting rhymes" which is not alignment-indicative (although gut feeling tells me townies are more likely to do that)...but then he did almost nothing at all. He only parked his vote on Mementos and disappeared for the rest of the day, and now that he shows up he doesn't contribute anything relevant at all :/ My gut tells me he's might be town because of him being so eager in early D1....but meh I don't really know if I should trust that. I hope to see more contributions from Xfire on D2. Anyways, off to eat, be back later. P.S: Wait, so these points really do matter? I can give my points to S&B or someone else if someone can explain me exactly what they are used for, how they work, etc. Of course the guy should be townie of course...but I don't have any reason to doubt S&B being town at the moment so I could entertain giving him points. | ||
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gonzaw
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If you are scum you can easily tell everybody to "give you points" and then keep them or do something anti-town with it and we would never know about it. It could even be a ruse and, like the show states, the points don't matter and you are making a big deal out of it just to spread confusion. It's unlikely but it's possible, and I can't know if that's what's happening or not | ||
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gonzaw
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On November 03 2012 04:15 Keirathi wrote: Because I wanted to see if there was any support for lynching you instead. You still haven't responded to BH's case (or my addition points), btw I kind of forgot about them (with the whole BKE/Mementos thing), but I already told BH that in an early post. If you guys are just "oh gonzaw doesn't seem like town, he doesn't seem to play like I know he'd play as town" I'll ignore it. People do that shit against me every single game. Again, read Aperture 2 where like half the game FoSed me for similar reasons. It's also something I can't respond to (the "you are not playing like you do as town!") because I am playing like I do as town so I can only think you guys are not reading very well or want to find any reason whatsoever to FoS me. Why did you spent so much time tunneling day 1, when your townie meta is to be suspicious of EVERYONE while gradually making town reads? If you look back I wasn't in the thread a long time. When I woke up and started the game it was pretty late (few hours from mid-D1). I thought you were scum and wanted people's opinion on it, but well instead got into an argument with BH about Adam and BH making that stupid "case" on me. After that I went to sleep and the next day I went to uni. You can't blame me for there not being anything interesting in the game and there not being active people to ask questions and pressure (when I was active only BH, Xfire and Hopeless were active I think, except that time mementos popped up). I also clearly am not "tunneling" you if you read my posts correctly. Saying that is a lie, I never tunnel anybody as town(i may be biased though, but I seriously don't think I've tunneled people for the sake of it, unless they were scum), just find them scummy as fuck and want peoples opinions on said player to make up my mind, and post my thoughts on said player and vote the player most likely to flip scum. Also, I suggest you read http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376602&user=265522 Hell, you should probably read Aperture again too, and compare it to Liquid City which was running at the EXACT SAME TIME. Aperture was an anomaly in my play style, not the norm. Hmm, okay I'll read them. I never read those games in Can't Believe and Aperture and didn't have much trouble figuring you out as town , but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here. @S&B: What do you think of Keirathi, and also Mementos considering what happened on D1? If you also find Adam's "theory" "interesting" then again, read the post where I post my thought process about it (since I couldn't post in-thread because of the restriction). If you have any doubts about it ask, but if you find Adam's theory interesting at least consider the post he conveniently ignored. I take it you are still serious with the points thing? If what BH said is true and you can use the points to kill someone I may consider giving them to you if you discuss with us who to shoot. | ||
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gonzaw
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Ninja'd. Hmm, I'll think about the points thing. | ||
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gonzaw
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Outing myself and Mementos at the end of D1 wouldn't have been that bad....if you know, we could have killed 3 townies on N1 (H1 didn't have vet protection on N1 since he gave points to BH right? So he would have died). Also iGrok, I really want to know how you planned this game to play that doesn't end in town winning by a landslide. Tell me what would have happened in this scenario: H1 and BH claim Ryan and Colin as soon as N1 starts and claim they are confirmed town to each other and ask everybody to give points to them. After they get like 6000 points from everybody, they convert them ALL to KP so they have like 5 vig shots to use on anybody they want and they obliterate scum on N1 if they have decent reads. Or just ask everybody for points, buy vet+mirror and with the rest of the points buy KP. If scum shoot them then scum kill themselves because of mirror, and if they didn't doublestack them they survive because of the vet shot If scum don't shoot them, they proceed to lynch whoever they want on D2 (since they are confirmed town basically), and then again ask everybody for points on N2 to repeat the process Because really, they could have gotten like 6000 points out of everybody and their abilities costed like 500 points each wtf? I'd like to see the full list of what they could buy. Like....yeah we were lucky S&B claimed first and neither BH nor H1 tried to get people to give them points instead Had the reverse happened (which is what BH and H1 should have done imo) this game could have been over by D2 with BH/H1 using like 10000000 vig shots on everybody that's not them lol | ||
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gonzaw
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gonzaw
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On November 10 2012 02:42 Keirathi wrote: H1 did have vet protection n1, gonzaw. He used 500 for vet, and sent 250 to BH to use vig. Really? I mean...everybody gets 1000 points in each game right? (besides the troll $100 game). That's enough to buy a vet ability every single day. If they claim and become "confirmed town", then they effectively become invincible confirmed townies basically. They would be unlynchable because they are confirmed town to each other (therefore could only be scum together), and they claimed 2 blue guys and were uncc'd, and there would be no way scum had 2 blue fake-claims like that and out themselves like that basically. THey would be unkillable at night since they could get a vet ability every single cycle. Not only that but they'd have points to spare to buy mirror or other shit as well to make them even more unkillable at night or at least if they are killed they take one scum with them. SO town could have had 2 confirmed invincible super townies on N1......or am I missing something? | ||
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gonzaw
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On November 10 2012 02:47 Blazinghand wrote: You could just RB+Shoot us or double-shoot us if we pulled a stunt like that right RB doesn't affect the vet ability if I remember correctly. Also if you have mirror it wouldn't have any effect right? The RB is done back at scum who are RBed and can't shoot you. Again, yes we could double-shoot you but: 1-We wouldn't know if you had enough points to get vet status..since remember we needed 1500 points to do so and had no idea it costed 500 instead for you guys 2-If you get mirror then we suicide into you basically. We can double-stack 1 of you guys, but in that case one of us dies as well and there's still another confirmed super invincible townie left, and since we have 1 less scum we can never use 2 KP again basically (and if nobody gives us points we could never afford the 3750 points for a new KP either) Also you guys could get a RB as well (you could get like 3-4 RB if you wanted) and RB who you think is scum who will give out the scum kills. Wait.....#involve only costs 500? Why didn't both of you use involve on D2 for instance? You either confirm scum or get 2000 instead which you can use to use #involve again on D3 like 4 times (both of you each) to basically out the whole scumteam. Or was it only one-shot? Also double points was only 250? Like....here: On N1 both of you: -Use 500 to buy vet -Use 500 to buy 2 double points -As soon as D2 starts both of you use 2 double points Then you'd get four times as many points! Both of you would get 4000 points in the D2 game and with 8000 points you can do whatever the fuck you want! Is it me or did BH and H1 like severely underperformed with their powers? At least considering all the possibilities they could have gotten. | ||
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gonzaw
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On November 10 2012 03:03 strongandbig wrote: If I hadn't claimed out of the gate and started getting people to give me points, we would have been uberfucked instead of just superfucked like we actually were. BIG PLAYS Yeah...but what if BH and H1 said "oh wait we are confirmed town and performers as well, give us points instead". People would surely give points to them instead. Also yeah, this "big play" from you is what basically made us (well you  ) survive this long.Damn it I wish I was a performer in this game, I would have tried to get like 10000000 points on D2 and like start a fucking war with all the shit I could buy. | ||
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gonzaw
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On November 10 2012 03:04 iGrok wrote: There were triggers that I had in place, when townies spent or received a certain amount of points, drew would get mad and stop giving out points, or give them to people watching at home, or give them only to the band. Also, I RNG'd what game to play each day, it just happened that we never hit a game that involved the buzzer. If we had, each audience member could spend 1000 points to hit the buzzer. How many points? Okay that may have stopped the "get 8000 points on D2" deal, but they still could spend at least 1000 points each night, therefore could get veteran+mirror each night and be invincible confirmed townies that can do whatever they want with the game | ||
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gonzaw
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Like how would the buzzer game work for instance? Anyways had I known we wouldn't get any KP on N1 I'd have hammered Mementos when I got there into the thread (I was thinking about doing that but Mem really wanted the 2 KP and I thought I'd wager "outing" both of us for 2 KP and maybe the possibility of swinging the lynch somewhere else since there would be less townies around). Also if it wasn't for that fucking restriction I could have worked something out to not "out" me and Mem like it happened there :/ I tried to "look" as townie as possible with that last post....but yeah if you see me saying "I wouldn't mind a Mem lynch" and then I don't vote him and vote him after Kei comes back it does look shifty as fuck no matter what my thought process would be at the moment. I.e if I was town I'd look shifty as fuck too no matter what I was thinking or posted afterwards because the action itself was shifty, no matter how I would justify it or do it (since I couldn't post). | ||
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gonzaw
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On November 10 2012 03:17 Blazinghand wrote: Gonzaw the reason you looked scummy is your analysis and your play was very different from your town play. You pressure multiple people and post big old multi-pronged walls of text as town. I mean yeah that thing with the fake bad post and the voting at the end of D1 did you no favors but you were my top scumread. Before that all the accusations against me were pretty weak to be honest. "You are not pressuring many people!" is not strong at all and I can easily push it apart by saying "I'm busy" or "there wasn't much going on when I was posting" (which was true, when I was posting only Xfire and BH were active, then I went to sleep and went to uni almost immediately). I think even Keirathi was having second thoughts about it at some points. If it wasn't for the end-D1 thing I don't think I'd have much trouble staying alive. ...well, yeah you were vig and maybe that "weak" reason was enough for you to think I was scum and vig shoot me. However when I play I tend to ignore the possibilities of the single guy that thinks I'm scum but can't convince others being vig and shooting me (if not I'd get pretty paranoid each game). If you think I'm scum but can't convince others then I don't think I'm in any danger (or if I think you could not convince others or the reasons for that I can refute). If you weren't vig I think I could have gotten away with the end-D1 thing too, if I put quite an effort in it. If it wasn't for the restriction it would have been easier though :/ One positive thing about this game: Watching Keirathi get mindfucked and angry at BH in that last day | ||
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gonzaw
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gonzaw
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Basically that's like 24 hours where I only made 1 post, and it was entirely due to IRL stuff (sleep+uni). If I had more time I'm sure I could have played like you expected me to do (i.e pressure more players, post bullshit wall of text cases, etc) but sadly I didn't have time. I can't say something similar would have happened if I was town, but it could have (i.e me making a case against someone I think is scum early, not having much people to talk about, then going to sleep and to uni and miss all D1). | ||
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gonzaw
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On November 10 2012 03:30 Keirathi wrote: Nah, the more I went back and read your town games, the more convinced I was. You were acting 99.9% differently than you have in any recent town game, and spent almost all of your time tunneling me. Town gonzaw is suspicious of everyone until he has a good reason not to be, and even if he's fairly sure of a scum read, he still questions the shit out of other people. Basically, your play this game was much, much, much more similar to your play in Liar Game than it was in any of your town games that I read. If this is true.......then why the hell am I FoSed in every game I'm town?  Come on guys, if you use my meta to "instantly" pin me as scum then at least use it to instantly pin me as town as well :/ That's not fair \: lol but joking apart, I think some of it had to do with the circumstances (i.e me not being able to be more time in the thread trying to make you doubt your suspicion on me) and maybe you guys putting too much attention on me | ||
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gonzaw
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On November 10 2012 03:33 Blazinghand wrote: I never pay attention to IRL excuses under any circumstances. Easily lied about. Edit: In a way, I almost consider talking about IRL excuses "cheating" in the sense that it's a non-defense that people for whatever reason accept. If I'm ever away from the thread for a period of time, I never give a reason for it. Mafia is about mafia, and that's it. My IRL excuse is for not being able to play better as scum to convince you otherwise mostly. I.e if I wasn't AFK IRL I could have done things to make you stop having that "top scumread" on me (ie focus on other players instead of Keirathi, or whatever). Of course if it wasn't for that end-D1 thing I'd use put an IRL excuse like I said earlier. In anybody else's mind except yours and maybe Keirathi it could have been a valid point against your argument ("gonzaw is not pressuring much people"->"it's because gonzaw wasn't around and when he was there was not many people to pressure"). You may not have bought it, Keirathi may not have bought it, but as long as the rest of the players buy it (which I think would have been likely) then it wouldn't matter. It would also have been enough to strike a little doubt in your head (you'd tell yourself "maybe he's right? Nah he's scum.....what if he isn't?) and that'd be enough for me. Take SoaF mafia for instance. On D1 I was FoSed by like a hundred people for meta reasons and shit, but once those people were dead/changed their mind I became like a "confirmed townie" on D2 and onwards. I don't really care for getting FoSed on D1 for "bad" reasons (i.e reasons that I can refute and maybe make people change their mind about it) since I have the chance to refute them, adjust my play accordingly (if I can though, at times I just don't give a fuck ) and make people forget about it later.It may or may have not happened this game, but well again the whole end-d1 thing happened and you vig shooting me :/ | ||
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gonzaw
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On November 10 2012 03:37 Blazinghand wrote: Man gonzaw just read your posts this game and your posts in any town game. I don't normally FoS you but I've obsed enough games with you in it to know that you don't play like a spear, you play like a trident. Or a ball of needles. You poke a lot, and at a lot of people. You have to at least *try* to emulate that as scum, or at least recognize that you weren't doing that this game, or your scum play simply won't improve. That's my advice.. I can't really be a "trident" when I'm scum since it might work against our scum agenda. For instance I wouldn't really want to pressure Mem or S&B too hard on D1, which I think I would have if I was town. I also wouldn't want to give town too much info if I end up dead and flip scum, since it might make it easier for them to figure out my other scumbuddies. Again....take into account that people thought Stutters and Xfire were scum at points and were kind of suspicious because I never pressured them that much. Would that have happened if I "pressured" them like you wanted me to do as town? I don't think so. Maybe trying to balance these things out didn't work that well for me in this game, but I was hoping the "difference" in play was not that big to warrant me getting lynched soon But yeah I'll say that my town play is kind of hard to emulate for me as scum (at least taking this game and Bureaucracy into account) since i really try to establish myself as town in those games. ...too bad it doesn't seem to work when I'm town and neither when I'm scum, huh | ||
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