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On November 06 2012 09:48 drazak wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2012 09:46 Acrofales wrote:On November 06 2012 09:31 kushm4sta wrote:
But drazak never pretended to want to lynch him. It was always a vote to pressure him out of afk. I don't see the scum motivation for taking your vote off like that. Scum would also not draw attention to themselves in quite so obvious a way.
Any scum would have left their vote on hopeless, because it was pretty clear hopeless was going to be lynched anyway. As soon as all those people voted hopeless at once it was pretty clear that he was the lynch. Town doesn't have their vote on someone they don't want to kill 4 minutes before the deadline in a very contested race. You cannot tell me that Drazak had his vote there, but was just too careless to take it off in favour of someone he felt WAS scummy. His vote was there because he wanted to make it look like he wanted to kill Hopeless1der. Except when push came to shove he suddenly didn't want to kill Hopeless1der anymore. Scum doesn't act that stupid. Except they do. Risen pulled that crap in some game (look in the award thread). He was called too dumb to be scum and coasted by on that to an easy scum victory. However, town get last-second jitters too. My main problem is that Drazak is not explaining his thought process. A town voteswitch would be able to say what was their reasoning. Drazak has NOT explained how he went from "lynch", "wait whoops no, lets not" back to "yeah, lets lynch" in the space of 2 minutes. what, I explained my thought process, I don't think it's fair to lynch someone on a lurker lynch and then see a post about being in meetings or busy all day, I don't think that's a cool thing to do.
Then how do you explain the "but lets not no-lynch" with a vote on Prom... at 4 minutes before the deadline. That's what I mainly don't understand. Also, how did you think it suddenly WAS fair to do that lynch 2 minutes later?
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On November 06 2012 09:48 drazak wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2012 09:46 Acrofales wrote:On November 06 2012 09:31 kushm4sta wrote:
But drazak never pretended to want to lynch him. It was always a vote to pressure him out of afk. I don't see the scum motivation for taking your vote off like that. Scum would also not draw attention to themselves in quite so obvious a way.
Any scum would have left their vote on hopeless, because it was pretty clear hopeless was going to be lynched anyway. As soon as all those people voted hopeless at once it was pretty clear that he was the lynch. Town doesn't have their vote on someone they don't want to kill 4 minutes before the deadline in a very contested race. You cannot tell me that Drazak had his vote there, but was just too careless to take it off in favour of someone he felt WAS scummy. His vote was there because he wanted to make it look like he wanted to kill Hopeless1der. Except when push came to shove he suddenly didn't want to kill Hopeless1der anymore. Scum doesn't act that stupid. Except they do. Risen pulled that crap in some game (look in the award thread). He was called too dumb to be scum and coasted by on that to an easy scum victory. However, town get last-second jitters too. My main problem is that Drazak is not explaining his thought process. A town voteswitch would be able to say what was their reasoning. Drazak has NOT explained how he went from "lynch", "wait whoops no, lets not" back to "yeah, lets lynch" in the space of 2 minutes. what, I explained my thought process, I don't think it's fair to lynch someone on a lurker lynch and then see a post about being in meetings or busy all day, I don't think that's a cool thing to do.
So you would rather lynch the person you had stated you had a town read on multiple times than lynch a lurker? And were so convinced that your town read was now scum that you were willing to risk a no-lynch in the confusion?
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I would have unvoted earlier if he had checked into the thread earlier.
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no, I'd rather kill someone other than the lurker, I didn't have much of a read on hope other than lurker, if I did I'd probably have been ok with lynching him and not unvoted.
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On November 06 2012 09:57 drazak wrote:
I would have unvoted earlier if he had checked into the thread earlier.
So you are okay with killing an inactive, but not with killing someone who jumps into the thread at crunch time when he is about to get lynched?!
Lol. This logic.
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On November 06 2012 09:58 drazak wrote:
no, I'd rather kill someone other than the lurker, I didn't have much of a read on hope other than lurker, if I did I'd probably have been ok with lynching him and not unvoted.
And then you voted for your town read instead of said lurker.
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What other bandwagon was there? I didn't want a no lynch, no matter what you say regarding that.
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Okay, lets go with the advice!
Jailers/medics: draw your own conclusions. Not giving scum any more of a list to kill into than the incredibly obvious one they already have.
Vigis and SK: now is your chance to kill scum! Shoot the crap out of Drazak.
Cops: draw your own conclusions. We may have a framer on the loose. Pick someone who is not Drazak and you think might be scum.
Roleblockers: not sure. Drazak is an obvious choice, but maybe too obvious. Imho go for your second-highest scum read (assuming you're not braindead and have Drazak as your first scum read).
And yes, I know it's pretty unlikely to have those roles, but some might still be possible, so throwing all advice out there. Note the presence of the SK in this list. You really should still be helping town. You have hidden well and if you keep this up, it'll be hard to find you, especially when we're still hunting down a scum as well. I for one will prioritize finding scum over you, especially if you help us out by blowing Drazak up.
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acro, if we catch an sk what do we do with them? assume that catch = confirmed, just hypothetically
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On November 06 2012 10:53 thrawn2112 wrote:
acro, if we catch an sk what do we do with them? assume that catch = confirmed, just hypothetically
There are potential situations where town can work with the SK if we are super behind. But Generally you lynch them unless you have a dead set scum lynch like we do currently.
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the post said acro not darthpunk, oh well. guys please dont answer questions specifically directed at somebody else
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On November 06 2012 11:17 thrawn2112 wrote:
the post said acro not darthpunk, oh well. guys please dont answer questions specifically directed at somebody else
It seemed to be a general kind of question. 0_o Sorry.
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On November 06 2012 09:38 Acrofales wrote:
Kush's voting pattern actually makes him look more innocent. Dumber, but more innocent. He believed Hopeless1der's claim (goddamnit Kush, I hope you learned your lesson) and unvoted. Then Prom started yelling to get the hell back on Hopeless1der and Kush complied. He only moved his vote off again when the deal was already sealed.
Also, Risk didn't strictly hammer. He placed his vote on the guy who was already getting lynched: he consolidated and ensured last-minute shenanigans were impossible. Here's the history:
Hopeless sits at 5 votes: drazak, kushm4sta, Acrofales, mkfuba07, DarthPunk
Pretty much simultaneously: kush unvotes and Prom votes. I believe Prom thought he was sealing the deal.
Hopeless still at 5 votes: drazak, Acrofales, mkfuba07, DarthPunk, Promethelax
Kushm4sta hammers (in non-bolded text), Hopeless is gonna get lynched.
Thrawn also hammers, 7 votes on Hopeless.
Drazak unvotes. In actual fact this unvote is COMPLETELY pointless. However, I doubt that he actually knew that at the time, given his behaviour.
After this, Risk votes and Drazak revotes. Finally Kush jumps off again.
Man, I love this train. Either that was a fucking professional bus by Prom and Thrawn or they are town. I am obviously town.
To some extent, I also like mkfuba in the deal, but less than Prom and Thrawn.
Imho the vote says nothing about DP or risk.
Drazak in particular looks like scum from this. Kush is just another layer on weird bullcrap in his already weird bullcrap play. The real problem is going to be finding the SK in this. Release is an option for not giving a flying fuck. However, everybody looking townie in this deal could also be an SK, because I think we already established that the SK should be playing with town today.
So, right after lynch you thought I looked scummy. Even when you knew exactly what my actions were. Now that you look back and notice that town think I am town for my play I look townie.
Remember after lynch when you saidOn November 06 2012 08:16 Acrofales wrote:
HELL YEAH. Now how about we take a good look at Prom and Drazak, who REALLY didn't want that lynch to happen.
FUCK YEAH. Nailed that one.
and
On November 06 2012 08:22 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2012 08:18 Promethelax wrote:
ebwop: did I NOT hammer him?
don't you lump me in with Draz who jumped a vote he had already made. I hammered the bastard and made sure people stayed on him. On the one hand, yes. On the other hand, it could be a last minute bus. Will have to take a closer look at that. Draz, however, is definitely looking terrible for that, roflol.
you were pretty up in the air right after lynch.
Just walk me through your thought process before and after, why was I scummy at first and afterwards I was super duper pro-town as green as the claimed cop?
Also your read of Kush looking more innocent for his voting. I don't get it, explain like I'm retarded. Thanks.
Kush: I know I already said you were dead to me but I'm feeling boozy and generous. Explain to me why you still find you flavour theory compelling after this lynch.
+ Show Spoiler +On November 06 2012 08:35 kushm4sta wrote:
Fine maybe I'm not confirmed town, but I pretty close imo, unless I'm immune sk or my scumbuddies framed me.
Anyway I just flipped flopped and I hate this drazak lynch. I remembered thay I hated it as soon as I was reminded of his flavor.
On November 06 2012 08:47 kushm4sta wrote:draz don't worry I believe you and will defend you <3 + Show Spoiler +On November 06 2012 08:43 Promethelax wrote:
Just a heads up guys.
I'm heading home in 20 mins (I'm at school right now) and my young lady wants me to do things with her and not ya'll. I'll be back tomorrow for some good stretches and I'll probably be one later tonight but we're having a romantic getting drunk event so no promises.
I just love hearing about your awesome sex life
Quoting to yell at you again, why the hell are you going to defend Draz? Did you read what I posted where Hope confirmed that scum had fake claims?
On November 06 2012 09:45 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2012 09:44 drazak wrote:
tbh I just thought the dick comment was funny, and I hadn't read hope's post yet about returning, I missed some posts somehow, like a whole page I buy this !
Draz: which page did you miss? I know this seems trivial but I'm curious.
and, remember this? On November 06 2012 06:39 drazak wrote:I don't want to vote for prom but I will if it means a lynch, I think he's town and anyone who thinks otherwise is probably scum  (
you really didn;t want to vote me but would to ensure a lynch. What you did instead was vote me to try to ensure a no-lynch. That is a 100% pure unadulterated contradiction. Explain fully your thought process. Also you went to bed at 10TL time that is somewhere between 6 and 9 in america. Do you really go to bed that early or were you thread jumping?
On November 06 2012 09:57 drazak wrote:
I would have unvoted earlier if he had checked into the thread earlier.
Your unvote was 45 mintues after your last post. Don't feed us this bullshit. You'd been here.
On November 06 2012 09:46 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2012 09:38 Acrofales wrote:
Kush's voting pattern actually makes him look more innocent. Dumber, but more innocent. He believed Hopeless1der's claim (goddamnit Kush, I hope you learned your lesson) and unvoted. Then Prom started yelling to get the hell back on Hopeless1der and Kush complied. He only moved his vote off again when the deal was already sealed.
Also, Risk didn't strictly hammer. He placed his vote on the guy who was already getting lynched: he consolidated and ensured last-minute shenanigans were impossible. Here's the history:
Hopeless sits at 5 votes: drazak, kushm4sta, Acrofales, mkfuba07, DarthPunk
Pretty much simultaneously: kush unvotes and Prom votes. I believe Prom thought he was sealing the deal.
Hopeless still at 5 votes: drazak, Acrofales, mkfuba07, DarthPunk, Promethelax
Kushm4sta hammers (in non-bolded text), Hopeless is gonna get lynched.
Thrawn also hammers, 7 votes on Hopeless.
Drazak unvotes. In actual fact this unvote is COMPLETELY pointless. However, I doubt that he actually knew that at the time, given his behaviour.
After this, Risk votes and Drazak revotes. Finally Kush jumps off again.
Man, I love this train. Either that was a fucking professional bus by Prom and Thrawn or they are town. I am obviously town.
To some extent, I also like mkfuba in the deal, but less than Prom and Thrawn.
Imho the vote says nothing about DP or risk.
Drazak in particular looks like scum from this. Kush is just another layer on weird bullcrap in his already weird bullcrap play. The real problem is going to be finding the SK in this. Release is an option for not giving a flying fuck. However, everybody looking townie in this deal could also be an SK, because I think we already established that the SK should be playing with town today. I don't agree with your conclusions. I think the only person that gets any town cred from this lynch is prom for pushing the lynch onto others so hard. Thrawn and risk had to hammer because they were being called out on it by prom and would have looked terribad had they not sealed a lynch. Kush and draz both derailed things in their own special ways. Aside from prom MAYBE Mkfuba gets some cred for voting with the initial rush and helping create a scum lynch out of thin air. Maybe. All in all your analysis is poor IMO.
I'm warming to you with everything that you post that is the same as what I think. I'm curious why Fuba is the one to gain town cred there though. Acro created this lynch target and I fought tooth an nail to get the hammer down. What the hell did Fuba do? Sheep a vote when no-lynch still looked like it was gonna happen? How does that make him town, hmm?
My own advice to blues:
JK(also take a look at the rb column): you know who to choose between. The guys who look really townie. We're in a decent spot right now so just get out here and do your best.
Cop: check someone you have a red read on. BC your check and save it, we're lynching Draz tomrrow whatever check you get on anyone so assuming you have more ability to check (not a 1 off) use it n3 and reveal as soon as d3 starts the results of both your checks.
SK/Vig knocking out scum is where it is at, Draz is a good choice. Even if he isn't scum (unlikely, I know) the thread will be more conducive to a scum hunt next day with him gone. SK, your best bet is to work with town, esspesially if you took check immune, get scum and you'll be fine.
RB (or JK if you want to go this way): RB Draz, we have a confirmed scum who may be an active power role (RB or Framer) don' let him use his role and don't let mafia use him for the kill because he would be too obvious to RB.
Mafia: you should consider using your kill on Draz, that will throw us into WIFOM and it will hurt town sooooooooooo much.
Acro: now that you have a town read on me (I think) what do you make of my RB claim. I think that matt probably saved his 1-shot and that mafia has a RB, thoughts?
Alright, I'm out again for a while. I'll be back well before dawn though, no worries.
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Yo. I'm back.
Obviously, my conspiracy theory has been proven incorrect, especially the part about Kush, which brings to this:
At the time i said Acro was my most tentative not-townie, but as of now, I'm taking drazak of that sheet.
Kush, stop fucking trolling around. It makes it legitimately hard for me (and others) to determine whether you are scum. This is a scum trait, as townies are trying to establish their innocence. All of this flavor theory and trolling around bullshit has been your excuse for otherwise deplorable play all game. I don't believe for a second that you actually believed in your theory or that you unvoted because of your theory. The green check has allowed you to coast through this game scotch free and I say this is the time it stops.I will consider any flavor comment or other trolling comment from you from now on to be a wish to be dead. Very much would I feel annoyed if the you were the reason we lost after finding the Godfather of all people.
I think the whole Drazak pulling a last minute vote switch is a null read. Anything more is way too far into wifom (for me at least) to read into. Personally, if I had been there, I too would probably have pulled a vote-switch to dare/bait someone to switch but afaik, I am the only person who does such a thing as that, so no townie points to drazak for that.
On November 06 2012 13:25 Promethelax wrote:
<snip>
SK/Vig knocking out scum is where it is at, Draz is a good choice. Even if he isn't scum (unlikely, I know) the thread will be more conducive to a scum hunt next day with him gone. SK, your best bet is to work with town, esspesially if you took check immune, get scum and you'll be fine.
<snip>
fawking hell. More of this damage limitation stuff. I find it scum-motivated. We kill (whether by lynching or vigging) to kill scum. Not for information, not for removing a townie that isn't particularly conducive to scum-hunting.
Already made a case against you for this on day 1 and i don't feel like repeating myself.
+ Show Spoiler +(yes, i know you think he is almost certain scum, i did read that before you storm in here. My point is that these clauses you use to say that we kill him regardless of alignment are scummy as fawk.)
Something about Acrofales on the way....
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If someone can give me a good reason to post my acro (case) thing now, I'll probably do so, but as of now, i don't see any particular reason for doing so.
I'll get the thing up tomorrow closer to the resolution period (7am PDT, not that much closer).
Hold me accountable to these figures to prove that i have done it already:
(from MS word)
6843 words
32068 characters (w/o spaces)
38628 characters (w/ spaces)
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On November 06 2012 15:10 Release wrote:
If someone can give me a good reason to post my acro (case) thing now, I'll probably do so, but as of now, i don't see any particular reason for doing so.
I'll get the thing up tomorrow closer to the resolution period (7am PDT, not that much closer).
Hold me accountable to these figures to prove that i have done it already:
(from MS word)
6843 words
32068 characters (w/o spaces)
38628 characters (w/ spaces)
Probably best to hold essays like that back until the last hour of night. Looking forward to it.
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On November 06 2012 10:53 thrawn2112 wrote:
acro, if we catch an sk what do we do with them? assume that catch = confirmed, just hypothetically
Well, at some point the SK has to die for town to win. However, at the moment I have no quibbles with an SK who uses his KP to help town and will put minimal effort into hunting him while I can still hunt scum.
Does that answer your question?
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On November 06 2012 13:25 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2012 09:38 Acrofales wrote:
Kush's voting pattern actually makes him look more innocent. Dumber, but more innocent. He believed Hopeless1der's claim (goddamnit Kush, I hope you learned your lesson) and unvoted. Then Prom started yelling to get the hell back on Hopeless1der and Kush complied. He only moved his vote off again when the deal was already sealed.
Also, Risk didn't strictly hammer. He placed his vote on the guy who was already getting lynched: he consolidated and ensured last-minute shenanigans were impossible. Here's the history:
Hopeless sits at 5 votes: drazak, kushm4sta, Acrofales, mkfuba07, DarthPunk
Pretty much simultaneously: kush unvotes and Prom votes. I believe Prom thought he was sealing the deal.
Hopeless still at 5 votes: drazak, Acrofales, mkfuba07, DarthPunk, Promethelax
Kushm4sta hammers (in non-bolded text), Hopeless is gonna get lynched.
Thrawn also hammers, 7 votes on Hopeless.
Drazak unvotes. In actual fact this unvote is COMPLETELY pointless. However, I doubt that he actually knew that at the time, given his behaviour.
After this, Risk votes and Drazak revotes. Finally Kush jumps off again.
Man, I love this train. Either that was a fucking professional bus by Prom and Thrawn or they are town. I am obviously town.
To some extent, I also like mkfuba in the deal, but less than Prom and Thrawn.
Imho the vote says nothing about DP or risk.
Drazak in particular looks like scum from this. Kush is just another layer on weird bullcrap in his already weird bullcrap play. The real problem is going to be finding the SK in this. Release is an option for not giving a flying fuck. However, everybody looking townie in this deal could also be an SK, because I think we already established that the SK should be playing with town today. So, right after lynch you thought I looked scummy. Even when you knew exactly what my actions were. Now that you look back and notice that town think I am town for my play I look townie. Remember after lynch when you said Show nested quote +On November 06 2012 08:16 Acrofales wrote:
HELL YEAH. Now how about we take a good look at Prom and Drazak, who REALLY didn't want that lynch to happen.
FUCK YEAH. Nailed that one. and Show nested quote +On November 06 2012 08:22 Acrofales wrote:On November 06 2012 08:18 Promethelax wrote:
ebwop: did I NOT hammer him?
don't you lump me in with Draz who jumped a vote he had already made. I hammered the bastard and made sure people stayed on him. On the one hand, yes. On the other hand, it could be a last minute bus. Will have to take a closer look at that. Draz, however, is definitely looking terrible for that, roflol. you were pretty up in the air right after lynch. Just walk me through your thought process before and after, why was I scummy at first and afterwards I was super duper pro-town as green as the claimed cop? Also your read of Kush looking more innocent for his voting. I don't get it, explain like I'm retarded. Thanks.
As you may have surmised by my absense in the thread, I left after my vote. Upon my return I wanted mostly to just read to see the flip and skimmed the previous posts. In that time, the general impression I had gotten from you was given by these posts:
On November 06 2012 07:28 Promethelax wrote:
Sorry, I'm writing up my case on Acro.
Seriously are we, as a town, sheeping onto a lurker here in d2?
Someone who isn't acro had better have a case written. This is bad play. Get yourselves together and at least post a reason for your vote besides the fact that he isn't here to defend himself and is therefore an easy lynch to push through.
On November 06 2012 07:35 Promethelax wrote:
Where the fuck did you all go? We were having a real involved thread there for a while and now everyone is on the lurker lynch and so convinced of it that they vanish. Leaving me and DP to slum around alone together. The hell...
This is reluctance to vote for Hopeless1der. I would even go so far as to call it a soft defense: I interpret it as "he's a lurker, yes, but that's no reason to kill him now".
Obviously that changed, and upon closer analysis your behaviour seems more inline with someone who cared about the lynch, would have preferred to lynch someone else at first, but when no other lynch was possible MUCH preferred a lynch on Hopeless1der than a no-lynch. That does not seem like scum behaviour, in fact, quite the opposite. Is it possible you are scum, thought it over, figured he probably couldn't be saved anyway with risk and thrawn still voting and decided to use the lynch for brownie points? Yes. But it's so unlikely that I'm letting you cash in those brownie points and calling you town over this. SK never made sense for you: all the main bits of my case against you are "prior knowledge" problems, which an SK doesn't have, so my reading not-scum equates to town.
Regarding Kush: I did a little thought experiment where I put myself in Kush's shoes. Assume Kush is town. We know he's absolutely obsessed by flavour. It is possible that he really was swayed by that claim. He unvoted because of it. Then peer pressure bullied him back on. When his vote was no longer needed, he jumped ship again. Does this sound like something Kush could do? To me it does.
Does this mean Kush is town? No. It just means that for Kush, I can think up a plausible townie explanation, while for Drazak I am not seeing a single way of making sense of it from a town viewpoint. Sure, his voting is inconclusive, but his utter lack of ability to explain it afterwards is what is really bugging me. I also cannot forget
On November 06 2012 06:39 drazak wrote:I don't want to vote for prom but I will if it means a lynch, I think he's town and anyone who thinks otherwise is probably scum (
At the time I just prayed everybody ignored it, because a wagon on someone for a stupid post like this is what lynches town more often than scum. However, I don't think we can ignore the fact that this post just absolutely reeks of newbie scum. By far the easiest way of reading it is scum trying to jibe his earlier assertions that Prom is town with the need to actually vote for him to make a lynch happen. At the time, a vote based on this would've been really bad. However, taken with the rest of the evidence it's pretty much Drazak claiming scum both before the vote and at the vote.
Regarding your role advice:
<snip>
My own advice to blues:
JK(also take a look at the rb column): you know who to choose between. The guys who look really townie. We're in a decent spot right now so just get out here and do your best.
Cop: check someone you have a red read on. BC your check and save it, we're lynching Draz tomrrow whatever check you get on anyone so assuming you have more ability to check (not a 1 off) use it n3 and reveal as soon as d3 starts the results of both your checks.
SK/Vig knocking out scum is where it is at, Draz is a good choice. Even if he isn't scum (unlikely, I know) the thread will be more conducive to a scum hunt next day with him gone. SK, your best bet is to work with town, esspesially if you took check immune, get scum and you'll be fine.
RB (or JK if you want to go this way): RB Draz, we have a confirmed scum who may be an active power role (RB or Framer) don' let him use his role and don't let mafia use him for the kill because he would be too obvious to RB.
Mafia: you should consider using your kill on Draz, that will throw us into WIFOM and it will hurt town sooooooooooo much.
Acro: now that you have a town read on me (I think) what do you make of my RB claim. I think that matt probably saved his 1-shot and that mafia has a RB, thoughts?
Alright, I'm out again for a while. I'll be back well before dawn though, no worries.
Mafia having a RB seems very plausible. They might have gotten a whiff of blue on you based on your secretive roleclaim. Zealos jailing me because he had a townread on you makes sense as well.
As for our own RBers, that's the only advice we differ on. RBers should really keep the wifom alive. Blocking the scum kill is far more important than blocking whatever role Drazak might have. I urge RBers to draw their own conclusion about second-guessing scum and who will perform the hit.
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On November 06 2012 15:10 Release wrote:
If someone can give me a good reason to post my acro (case) thing now, I'll probably do so, but as of now, i don't see any particular reason for doing so.
I'll get the thing up tomorrow closer to the resolution period (7am PDT, not that much closer).
Hold me accountable to these figures to prove that i have done it already:
(from MS word)
6843 words
32068 characters (w/o spaces)
38628 characters (w/ spaces)
Yeah, go ahead and wait til the deadline. I don't think your case has much immediate urgency. Looking forward to a page full of LOL.
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EPT
