GSL Mini Mafia III

On October 20 2012 09:05 DarthPunk wrote:
Well. This player list seems pretty strong so I guess we don't need to talk about policy lynches or lurker lynches... hey ZB, Long time no see. ^_^

On October 20 2012 09:16 DarthPunk wrote:
Hapa what do you mean by hammering? Do you mean pushing a lynch on someone?

On October 20 2012 09:17 DarthPunk wrote:


I know right. ^_^

On October 20 2012 09:20 DarthPunk wrote:


Ok thanks for the clarification. Meh. I dislike policy lynches. But I agree. If you are townie don't hammer someone when you are not certain they are scum or the certainty you hold is not rational.

On October 20 2012 09:28 DarthPunk wrote:
To elaborate. Don't be scared TO hammer someone if you DO have a strong case and read on them.



So what is the point of even discussing it if we may or may not enforce it at all and it comes down to the circumstances? I know that policy is the best way to start discussion. But honestly it is very easy for scum to hide in the midst of policy talk.
I have never seen a policy lynch despite it being discussed at length at the start of every game.

On October 20 2012 09:30 DarthPunk wrote:


Alas. Even though I much prefer League of Legends I am a SC2Progamer

On October 20 2012 11:42 vaderseven wrote:
Sup what ya want to knows bout mes?

On October 20 2012 13:19 DarthPunk wrote:


Like even if they are 1% less likely to fake claim why the hell not? There is absolutely no difference either way but I thought that this way May have some small advatage of the other so I chose that way. I honestly don;t see what is so difficult to understand about this. It is not as if that scenario needs to occur or if it is even likely. I thought it may be the better play out of two otherwise equal options. So I chose it. I am baffled that no one understands that.

geez.

Yea, it doesn't make much sense. I don't think it's scummy, but I sure don't think it's townie either. A scum in his position would certainly have to justify himself as well, I don't see why you are taking this to be a town read this early on.

This meta read, however, makes me less suspicious of drazak for that vote alone.

Right now I'm more interested in Keirathi. Made this one easy-to-make post, and didn't really stick around, made no other comments. This seems to me like too easy of a post for someone like Keir to make, and doesn't seem genuine.

On October 21 2012 01:18 Keirathi wrote:

It was friday night. I went out. I wasn't expecting the game to start yesterday, and I wasn't going to change my plans anyways.

Also, that's such a blanket statement (and not even necessarily a true one...I've not been super active early in like half of my games), that has absolutely nothing to do with my alignment. I was "very active" in the early game as scum too. So what was the point of even saying that?

On October 21 2012 01:59 Z-BosoN wrote:
@Hapa
I see now, you referred to his over-thought out plan as "incomprehensible logic". Not gonna sweat over your choice of words, but I felt that needed some clearing up. You're obviously not scum... right? right??

On October 21 2012 02:32 Z-BosoN wrote:
Where's marv btw

On October 21 2012 09:16 DarthPunk wrote:


FU hapa. You look town as scum. I read through XXI you looked so town, that even when you outed yourself as scum you looked townie townie town town.

On October 21 2012 12:17 DarthPunk wrote:

That is exactly what it is like. If you say you don't think someone is scum. You are saying they are town. He is voting for someone who he says is town.

This drazak kid falls into the category of saying such dumb stuff that he must be town is what im thinking. I remember from liquid city and my newbie games that saying dumb stuff is not a scum tell and in fact it usally means the opposite. Also i cant imagine this game where there are 2 scum and the player list that we have that drazak would continue to say dumb stuff like he has so i would have to say town for him.

On October 21 2012 13:01 iamperfection wrote:

i dont think so ive have seen this a lot espcially in my newbie games and it seems drazak is right out his newbies. The only person i remember saying dumb stuff on purpose was yourharry and he did that to match his meta.

On October 21 2012 13:11 DarthPunk wrote:


Bleh. If you are reading him as town we are on completely different pages. Which townie in their right mind would keep a vote on someone they think is not scum? There is not rationalising that action with a townie mindset.

On October 21 2012 13:13 DarthPunk wrote:
Also his defense each time is oh you must be scum and trying to trick me. Nothing townie about it. And your 'meta' read is bleh.

On October 21 2012 13:16 austinmcc wrote:

hapa thinks non-new townies are "tainted." Not a townie mindset. Scum hapa!

On October 21 2012 13:20 iamperfection wrote:

in non seriousness didnt you coach him so he would be in fact tainted by you.

On October 21 2012 13:20 austinmcc wrote:
austin never sarcastic. Non-town mindset. Then after my joke, you made a joke, and iamperfection made a joke.

DP didn't make a joke. Guilty conscience.

Hapa/DP scumteam.

On October 21 2012 13:28 Keirathi wrote:
I don't really like Draz's explanation either.
...
Second, putting pressure isn't scummy either. But, you're not actually putting pressure on him. You just parked a vote there and haven't done anything with it. THAT is scummy. What is the point of your vote right now?

On October 22 2012 03:45 Z-BosoN wrote:
my case on austin, the death of v7, Keirathi, yourself.

On October 22 2012 03:53 Z-BosoN wrote:
k
k
Well, you really think he is scum and should insta-die before he's even had a chance to defend himself? I'm uncomfortable sending him to his grave like this...
I'd like to know if you are scum. Think about it. It's the pro-town thing to do. If you are scum, it's pro-town because town will lynch a scum. If you are town, then it's pro-town that we don't have to kill you. Tell us

I don't feel there's anything about this suspicion that I want you to address though, whether as town or scum you are going to disagree, but feel free to expand on anything if you want.

On October 21 2012 08:02 austinmcc wrote:

I don't remember kei in LC tbh. I was mostly inactive D1, came back looking at those couple specific people, died before I had a good handle on the full game.

Kei from Aperture 2 I feel like is a solid townie as far as being active, looking town, once the game starts. Not...the type of player who takes advantage of that, though? Basically was the towniest person in game, was going to get protection, but kind of let spammier people take over and direct the flow of the game, and noticed that that was happening (kei, your game was much more fun when we were scumhunting than claiming/solving the game bit). I expect some good and insightful posts from him, but I haven't seen him be particularly aggressive.

I think we also played...rockband? And maybe another game? I'll have to look through. I don't have a big meta handle on keirathi, but I'm also not generally good at catching people via meta or even USING meta. I mainly focus on picking out odd questions, or questions that never got pursued. That seems to be when I'm most effective, and so I'm going to try and mine the thread hard for things that stick out.

---

---

Right now, and I haven't looked at his past play recently, but v7 is sticking out to me somewhat. The DP stuff was EASY to mine for activity last night, poke at it poke at it poke at it. And very safe too, because the way he started to flop around felt townie, so you could attack attack attack and just say "Eh, his flopping around townie." A couple of us did that, but DP has almost only talked about his past games and the DP stuff last night. (AND THEN HE MAY HAVE SPOILED GSL, UNSURE, I AIN'T CLICKING THAT UNTIL I WATCH)

There's nothing more than that to go on, but out of all the people who have some posts, his feel like there's the least in them.

---

---

Not relevant to anything that's happening, but spoilered for DP and so thread can see my thought process:
+ Show Spoiler +

On October 22 2012 05:39 Z-BosoN wrote:
b) There's a ton of things going on. You've planted your vote and since then have only written semi-cases on austin and Keir, which concluded little. You are happy and comfy with your vote on v7 and haven't bothered answering any of my inquiries of his lynch.
Also, you are generally more investigative (i.e ask more quesitons, etc.), I use LVII as reference here. So far you've played quite differently than in LVII, in my opinion.

Your case on austin seemed extremely forged, and I'm seriously bugged by point no. 2).
It's like you were thinking: "hmmm... let's see, what looks scummy here that I can pounce on.." instead of "is this guy scum?".
This uncharacteristic error could have very well been just that, a misinterpretation. But coming from you I find it oddly suspicious.

His other main post contains a ton of fluff and doesn't really conclude anything:

What the hell? I have like 4 posts contemplating v7's lynch, as I was, and still am, seriously considering dropping my hammer vote on him. If you really think he's scum, why aren't you pushing him when I'm showing doubt? Anyways, since you are really making me go through my filter and pick out what I mean, here are some things:

On October 22 2012 04:03 Hapahauli wrote:
Oh, and as for V7 - I put vote #3 on him yesterday, and I'm more than comfortable sending him to the grave if he continues not to contribute. I think the 12 hour mark someone said earlier is an appropriate benchmark for hammering him.

...
Regarding to the "forcedness" of your d1 cases, I'm pretty aware of that. I don't think this looked like a forced case, this looked like a fake case, there's a difference. #1 I don't remember if I used the word "forced", but anyways, that's what i meant.#2

Also, your traditional OMGUS of whoever is pressuring you is pretty unjust.#3 You've taken one specific part on a much bigger post I made and extrapolated it into stamping my whole case on him as fake. I was very clear on my main problem with austin: He was not as aggressive as he usually is and his posting is different than from both the games he's played against me.#4 Austin himself noticed this and convinced me otherwise.

On October 22 2012 06:33 marvellosity wrote:
I don't enjoy using scales with no fun factor. Include a really whiny celebrity and I will answer.

More seriously, it's not the whining, it's that he didn't actually answer your question regarding why he's attacking you over austin's posts. Nor was what you were doing OMGUS, you were asking for an explanation.

On October 22 2012 06:39 Z-BosoN wrote:
Hapa, not sure I follow you here.
It's funny you got all riled up on the word "unjust". Initially, I had written "retarded", but I didn't want to sound like a dick and start a war. So I used a word that better describes what you are doing. You are using a fraction of one post I make to deem me hypocritical.
So, based on your weird-ass interpretation of the word "unjust", you unvote someone you were uber confident on, before he went afk for an additional 12 hours or more.
Very interesting, to say the least. I'll mull this over dinner.

On October 22 2012 06:44 Z-BosoN wrote:
Attacking you for finding austin scummy? How about attacking you for making a bad case on austin? #1
Also, it came waaay after I stopped finding austin suspicious. You guys are not reading...#2

On October 22 2012 06:42 Keirathi wrote:
Anyways:

Slightly town on DP. Kind of town on iamp.

Still slightly scummy on Draz, but not enough that I would vote him at this point without more content.

No one else has really stuck out in the limited amount of time I've actually been able to read and research people. I'm not going to just make up reads that I don't believe in, so meh.

You are confident on your vote, not confident on him being scum.

Also, you are still not being concise about my "Hypocrisy". Again. you took a small portion of my case and used it to deem it weak, fake, forced, bad, whatever. That's a bunch of crap if you are really trying to find scumminess in my filter. Unjust too whiny a word? Try ridiculous.

On October 22 2012 07:41 marvellosity wrote:
austin, I'd like to hear what you (and anyone else) has to say about Kei before I get my voting shoes on.

In a 9 player game, having 1 player who basically refuses to give us anything to hold him accountable to (i.e. reads) it's a fucking liability.

Actually I'd really like to hear what drazak has to say about Keirathi.

In my view, the more time, the more chances town actually have. Unless discussion completely stagnates, we should wait as long as possible (even though what we really want is to see v7's godamn alignment ASAP)
Let's lynch him tomorrow at 7 KST then, if he doesn't make himself useful in any manner. Or at least until there's no one talking about anything.

Couple of observations during our little engagement.
1) Drazak is 100% awol
2) Iamperfection even posted a (now THAT is whiny) "why is everyone ignoring me" post in the middle of all this.
3) marv was pretty quick to take a stance in me vs. you.

1) makes me redact some of my townie thoughts on him. He better have some damn good reason for not posting. Seems like he only bothered to post to defend himself.
2) gives me a slight town tell on iamp
3) is weird. There were a lot of arguments floating around, and it didn't seem like he went too deep in them.

Thoughts?

On October 22 2012 07:51 Keirathi wrote:

What the hell does the length of his filter have to do with whether he is town or not? It doesn't, in general. Unless you're making a meta read?

On October 22 2012 08:00 marvellosity wrote:


Because I actually have fleshed out thoughts on several of the players in the game?

Hapa - I'm wary of meta in Kei's case is because I know how aware of it he is. The little fucker correctly metaing kush as town on how I hard-defended him in Liquid.

I'd like to hear what he thinks about DeePgate overall, not about DP himself but about the rest of us who interacted with him. And hopefully there's enough recent action that he can comment on someone.

On October 22 2012 08:26 drazak wrote:
I'm not AWOL, with family until 10 or 11pm EST, can only phone post, only caught someone calling me awol. Sorry. I'll be back with more in a few hours.

On October 22 2012 08:35 marvellosity wrote:


meh, i'll wait. if he's actually away and checking on his phone i can understand that as a reaction. phone posting is a bitch.

On October 22 2012 08:44 Keirathi wrote:

I'm on #tlmafia irc too! Does that mean I am therefor not posting from my phone?

Don't be ridiculous.

(Note: I am not familiar with draz's irc habits. Maybe he turn irc off anytime that he leaves the computer. I, however, do not. So your base accusation is flawed.)

On October 22 2012 08:47 Keirathi wrote:
Yes, there are. That's not what I meant though. Unless you mean draz is currently talking on irc, which is different from just being ON irc. My computer has irc on even though I'm not at my house right now.

On October 22 2012 09:19 iamperfection wrote:
...
and even though you didn't ask I'm null on you. i'll never trust you after are first meeting.

On October 22 2012 10:09 vaderseven wrote:
Ask me about something instead of being like welp that thing that anyone can do has you fo sure the lynch for today.

On October 22 2012 10:15 vaderseven wrote:
Elobarte? I said scummiest cuz i have weak reads overall. I find his posts about me like whwn he talks about joke posts being scummy to be a very weak way to appear to be adding to the case on me so that he isnt labeled a parrot/sheep.

On October 22 2012 10:58 vaderseven wrote:
I can do that.

You are grasping at straws. I read the thread on my phone and its day 1 and you think what I have posted the past like hour males me super scum?

You want me to make something up? There is so lil confirmed facts during day 1 that any read at all is a huge like leap of faith. My read on draz is only noticable to me because of early in the game it is. I guesd im just seeing you say that I should have more reads RIGHT now as just wrong.

I am working 14 hour days the next 20 days unless we can get a new employee like NOW but ill make it happpen.

On October 22 2012 06:42 Keirathi wrote:
Anyways:

Slightly town on DP. Kind of town on iamp.

Still slightly scummy on Draz, but not enough that I would vote him at this point without more content.

No one else has really stuck out in the limited amount of time I've actually been able to read and research people. I'm not going to just make up reads that I don't believe in, so meh.

On October 23 2012 00:35 DarthPunk wrote:
WEll I for one have tried pushing a lynch on drazak. But noone agreed with me QQ.

As far as I am concerned all we are waiting on is V7 to come and make his promised post. If he doesn't. Or it is unsatisfactory we lynch him. I don't feel like anyone aside from draz and V7 are partciularly inactive or lazy.

Draz is still by far my biggest scum read and t has only strengthened. He was called out for inactivity be several of us if I recall correctly. And the post he made was simply a summary of the thread with no real input of his own. Not really scum hunting. Sheeping. etc.

Very passive. Without taking a stance. Whcih is odd coming from someone who parked a 'pressure' vote on someone for over 24 hours.

On October 23 2012 00:16 austinmcc wrote:
Catching up now, but wanted to throw something out here. It may be anti-town, but I don't quite think it is.

I want to lynch someone. Maybe I'm bloodthirsty, maybe I agree that it's easier to work with flips, maybe I just want the game to move forward so we can actually play mafia instead of D1 hand-holding or whatever it is we're up to. But I would like to lynch a player, sooner, rather than later. I think there are benefits and drawbacks to both town and scum if we let D1 drag on forever, and probably only drawbacks to hosts. As much as I want to keep swapping votes around and see how quickly blazinghand can give updated votecounts...we're not making the setup work for us. We're just dithering around and doing very little.

So I propose we lynch a player. Right now, the player that I want to lynch is v7, see vote. I will look closer at keirathi and hapa while at work today, and going to look marv over as well. If I want to lynch any of them more than v7, then I'll swap my vote and try to drum up support. But this is getting silly and we're all LETTING it get silly.

I would like others' thoughts on this. I don't think an infinite-length D1 actually helps us, and I don't think it makes everyone invested in the game. Look at how lazy most of the thread is, because there's no pressure to do anything. Don't want to contribute? Okay. Just contribute tomorrow, deadline is infinite, no problems guys. That is TRUE, but it's crap, and it's not useful to us imo.

btw, apart from my normal paranoia, this is one thing that makes me suspicious of marv. I know he doesn't like to play setup games, but I would expect townmarv to be a little more bloodthirsty, be pushing someone a little more, and not be willing to play infinite D1 pattycake.

Am I the only one with this thought? Are people just worried to type it out because "let's lynch someone NOW, instead of later with more information" feels like it might be anti-town?

On October 22 2012 07:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Man, are you really gonna dive into the semantics?
1) Ok, you want me to say it was a Good fake case? ffs
2) To be frank, I didn't bother checking the exact time frame.

Your uber-confidence was an assumption I made based on this:


You are confident on your vote, not confident on him being scum.

To be clear, try this:


Also, you are still not being concise about my "Hypocrisy". Again. you took a small portion of my case and used it to deem it weak, fake, forced, bad, whatever. That's a bunch of crap if you are really trying to find scumminess in my filter. Unjust too whiny a word? Try ridiculous.

This is LVII all over again. I'm done with you. Unless you actually really really find me scum (in which case, please, carry on), then this is pointless. I find you suspicious, I don't understand some of your actions, I found your initial meta off (now it's pretty much dead on) but that's about it, I'm not lynching you over v7/Keir and I will need more time to think if your actions make more sense from townie you or scummy you.

On October 23 2012 02:18 austinmcc wrote:
Back from lunch, looking at Z-BosoN and a couple others.


We are already at ... 65 hours.

Moreover, at least in GSL 2, thinking in terms of 72-hour days, or any specific time limit, instead of "We are the town and we should be lynching scum, at whatever point we find them" was not helpful to us.

I strongly believe that some of the apathy that seems to be a part of this game is because of the deadlines. There is no deadline rush, there is no reason for people to have to act NOW. Waiting x numbers of hours to do something, or aiming to end a day at a certain point in time, is malleable and generally has not been productive for us.

On October 23 2012 02:36 DarthPunk wrote:
he built A bunch of cases in his scum game also. Filter ZB XIV The thing was though he didn't follow through on them. Unlike when he is town and unlike this game. In his scum game he ended up voting for the lurker in spite of far more solid cases on others. Bear in mind this was his first game. But there are some parallels albeit obscured ones.

I have never seen ZB sheep a wagon like this as town.

##Vote: Z - Boson

On October 23 2012 03:30 Z-BosoN wrote:
DP, that's a real bad tell.
From liquid city:


Also, I don't get why people are thinking I'm sheeping. First of all, there's not really much to say on v7.
Second of all, I actually did spend quite some time pondering whether I should give the vote hammer or not. Why are you attacking me right now, and not before? Makes 0 sense.
The hapa thing, I attacked him because he unvoted v7 when I completely disagreed with his reasoning to do so.

@Hapa
All of a sudden? So I spend like 10 posts saying why I think you are suspicious, and you say, "all of a sudden"?
Fuck off. Not willing to lynch you != I think you are townie.

I have no heart defending myself here. Most of this shit comes from a lack of reading and erratic interpretations. I've made cases vs. kei and hapa, but concluded that v7 deserved the best lynch. How is this fucking scummy? Better yet, how is this scummier over ppl like kei and v7 who aren't doing shit?

Wanna talk about sheeping? Try Kei, who hasn't done shit and suddenly goes for me as soon as DP opens the door.

In all seriousness, however, I am a bit suspicious of you. Your reads so far seem too... easy. I don't like how you agreed with me on the Keirathi case:

b) I have no problems with your town read on DP. I agree with them. I don't understand why you felt the need to bring this up. I don't think I mentioned that I was troubled with you taking stances early on. My trouble was with the "easy reads on scum, and I think this was quite clear when I mentioned v7, the "easy read" I'm referring to.

Also, I don't get why people are thinking I'm sheeping. First of all, there's not really much to say on v7.
Second of all, I actually did spend quite some time pondering whether I should give the vote hammer or not. Why are you attacking me right now, and not before? Makes 0 sense.
The hapa thing, I attacked him because he unvoted v7 when I completely disagreed with his reasoning to do so.

The hapa thing, I attacked him because he unvoted v7 when I completely disagreed with his reasoning to do so.

On October 23 2012 04:22 Z-BosoN wrote:


Please be more clear if you still think this after my explanation above, and please be more plain as to why the fuck I'm scum. I can't defend myself vs. blatant exaggerations of what I post.

On October 23 2012 04:26 vaderseven wrote:
Ok reread entire thread again. Reading filters now.

Keirath-
Very neutral or careful play.
Somewhat defensive.
Makes a solid lil case on zboson.
Neutral to town read for now.

Hapahauli-
Dear lord hates lurkers ol.
I dont like pushing so fast for a hammer... ill forgive that cuz of my obv involvement in that situation.
Do stop thinking active=town and vice versa though. I have seen many town loses get attributed to that thinking.
I like how you say your vote and threat towards me of hammer is more just to pressure to vote. Thats good play.
Overall very neutral read.

Btw, i do appoligize for having a few days o hellish work there but I am used to day 1 being a meh so I figured come in all guns firing next week... whatever. I like the no deadline for this speficic circumstance.

More filter reading to come, gotta go on sales floor for a few hours first... be back in lime 2-4 hours.

On October 23 2012 04:35 vaderseven wrote:
Dude fuck off thats first two on the player list im going own one by one.

The hapa thing, I attacked him because he unvoted v7 when I completely disagreed with his reasoning to do so.

On October 23 2012 04:56 austinmcc wrote:

Hapa and Keirathi, do you find the above to be a good plan of action?

If not, where would you make modifiations?

On October 23 2012 05:27 iamperfection wrote:
Posting from phone dont lynch z-bos wait untll I get home please.

On October 23 2012 05:43 drazak wrote:
About which?

Also, I don't get why people are thinking I'm sheeping. First of all, there's not really much to say on v7.
Second of all, I actually did spend quite some time pondering whether I should give the vote hammer or not. Why are you attacking me right now, and not before? Makes 0 sense.
The hapa thing, I attacked him because he unvoted v7 when I completely disagreed with his reasoning to do so.

@Hapa
All of a sudden? So I spend like 10 posts saying why I think you are suspicious, and you say, "all of a sudden"?
Fuck off. Not willing to lynch you != I think you are townie.

I have no heart defending myself here. Most of this shit comes from a lack of reading and erratic interpretations. I've made cases vs. kei and hapa, but concluded that v7 deserved the best lynch. How is this fucking scummy? Better yet, how is this scummier over ppl like kei and v7 who aren't doing shit?

Wanna talk about sheeping? Try Kei, who hasn't done shit and suddenly goes for me as soon as DP opens the door.

Here he says he is calling Hapa out for the "easy read" on v7, when that's EXACTLY what he did. In fact, he didn't (and still hasn't) give any reasoning of his own. Just sheeped onto the current bandwagon.

On October 23 2012 06:06 Z-BosoN wrote:
This is the biggest irony I have ever seen
For some reason, you're forgetting and changing the rationale of your suspicions to suit your own interests.

Anyways, since I have three votes, if someone wants to vote for me, please say why, and be very clear, and let me defend myself before you vote, I'm actually giving a shit about this game and am already being twice as active as I intended to be.

Don't just agree with hapa because I genuinely think that his case on me is full of shit, mixing in a really really forced interpretation of things that weren't even important in my posts, please see the exchange above as unbiased as you can and remember hapa is the tunnel-vision king.

Of course I'm going to re-interpret my posts on OF other players.

On October 23 2012 04:50 drazak wrote:
Not to defend hapa too much, but I know when I've read things, I think different things whehter or not I'm hungry, or if other things are going on in my life, maybe he reconsidered after reading something again.

On October 23 2012 05:32 drazak wrote:


I don't think he doesn't find him scummy, he just doesn't want the hammer while he's afk, might have someone else he finds scummier.

On October 23 2012 04:28 vaderseven wrote:
Also zboson, i wouldnt wipe my ass with anything you gave me jerk.

On October 23 2012 04:26 vaderseven wrote:
Ok reread entire thread again. Reading filters now.

Keirath-
Very neutral or careful play.
Somewhat defensive.
Makes a solid lil case on zboson.
Neutral to town read for now.

Hapahauli-
Dear lord hates lurkers ol.
I dont like pushing so fast for a hammer... ill forgive that cuz of my obv involvement in that situation.
Do stop thinking active=town and vice versa though. I have seen many town loses get attributed to that thinking.
I like how you say your vote and threat towards me of hammer is more just to pressure to vote. Thats good play.
Overall very neutral read.

Btw, i do appoligize for having a few days o hellish work there but I am used to day 1 being a meh so I figured come in all guns firing next week... whatever. I like the no deadline for this speficic circumstance.

More filter reading to come, gotta go on sales floor for a few hours first... be back in lime 2-4 hours.

On October 22 2012 22:47 iamperfection wrote:

i would hold a candle light vigil in your honor if you flipped town.

i think its a moot point to keep hammering this point. you even said yourself its a terrible mindset that has gotten you lynched in the past. also its concerning that you called out for it in gsl I.


you were scum remember.


Me representing the town i am asking you to change nay begging you to change. If you are scum continue i have no problem pushing a lynch on you at this point. Shape up or die.

On October 24 2012 02:19 Keirathi wrote:
Where did I ever say I had a strong town read on iamp? I said I had a slightly town read on him for the early tone of his posting, but that his later posting feels much more careful and like his scum tone.

On October 24 2012 04:39 austinmcc wrote:
Hapa, does iamperfection's very early vote on DP affect your read at all?

On October 24 2012 04:24 Keirathi wrote:

I think your point about iamp calling me scum but keeping his vote on v7 would be the strongest point you made, BUT, he also said he had a very strong scum read on v7. It would make sense, if iamp is town, to leave his vote on one strong read when the other strong read isn't gaining any traction.

On October 24 2012 06:39 Keirathi wrote:

Marv clearly said earlier that he was getting townie vibes from iamp.

That leaves the two people I'm most interested in today, vader7 and Keirathi. Mebbe I'm about to look quite hypocritical citing activity and investment, but what can you do ^^

On September 19 2012 01:53 marvellosity wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote: Palmar

fuck you

On September 19 2012 01:57 marvellosity wrote:
Palmar is being awful

he should die

he read my alignment correctly in NMM3 and I refuse to believe he'd so arbitrarily get it so wrong here

straight OMGUS, deal with it

On October 20 2012 02:53 Harry Tasker wrote:
fuck me I'm so lost

On October 19 2012 09:57 Harry Tasker wrote:
I think it's negligent, but I also get townie feelings elsewhere in his filter (his discussions with me on John).

Ugh. Actually I don't like how he's (not) pushed your case either. I just find Ben significantly scummier - I don't see any townieness in his posts whereas I can see townieness in Alex's.

On October 23 2012 06:56 marvellosity wrote:
My head hurts. Now I know what it looks like when me and VE shout at each other for pages ^^

Unless I missed it, I don't think Z-Bo ever answer Kei's original question of where his v7 scumread appeared from? I've just been through Z-Bo's filter and it indeed just appears and I can't find an explanation. Hopefully I'm not being a fucking dumbass.

Z-Bo, explain please? Further, what is your current read on vader and why?

Hapa has the right idea with his drazak and v7 post. When two people are shouting at each other, the natural scum reaction is to let it roll, or even throw wood on to the fire, rather than actually do anything about making it stop. On a little sidenote, it's why I found austin's play kinda adorable, because he was trying to push a policy idea but was being roundly ignored, so his reaction was to keep pushing the same idea in the same way, only to be unsurprisingly ignored again

Anyway, vader fits perfectly into the throwing-wood-on-to-the-fire mould, basically egging on the aggressiveness in the thread when there was no need for him to do so. Also, unlike austin, I see his 'I'm going through filter' thing as pretty scummy - like he's going through the motions rather than trying to push something constructive into the thread. BUT LOOK, I'M LOOKING AT PEOPLE'S SHIT?! No. Don't buy it.

Every time I see vader post, he's not making me think any more that he's town. This scumbo gotta hang.

##Vote vaderseven.

On October 20 2012 02:49 Harry Tasker wrote:
...
Also at the moment I just don't want to lynch Alex. Maybe he's scum manipulating me, but ugh, I just don't think so.

This leaves me lynching into Alan Schaefer, John Matrix, and Jack Slater. Due to busyness I've not re-read Alan's filter yet, but I will read his and Jack's this evening and see if I can come to a conclusion.

On October 20 2012 08:01 Harry Tasker wrote:
From a gameplay point of view I'd have to be as certain as can be we're definitely hitting red and I don't think I am.

And if we lynch John and he flips town then town was already given a crippling disadvantage to start with given not posting at all is both within the rules AND a strong scum strategy.

From a personal point of view the game is already ruined if John is town. This isn't a full-sized normal, or even a fucking mini with 12 players or whatever. 1/7 of our players isn't here. That's a really large chunk of the game. That just fucking sucks.

##Unvote
##Vote: John Matrix

On October 20 2012 08:18 Harry Tasker wrote:
What is there to talk about? Actually I think Douglas has a quite decent chance of flipping scum. But it doesn't supercede what I just wrote above.

On October 24 2012 08:35 marvellosity wrote:
I read the fucking case. I don't have massive emotional over-reactions every time I play town (see palmar omgus) nor do I very often play in a game with smurfs where I'm devoid of a lot of information I normally have.

How am I disinterested??

On October 24 2012 08:52 Keirathi wrote:

Of course I can understand having difficulty making up your mind in this game. But the way you tried to make your decision is just so different than the way you normally go about making that kind of decision.

On October 24 2012 08:56 marvellosity wrote:
fuck off, hapa.

It's fairly hard to catch a player like marv on traditional reads, because his scum-play is devoid of egregious tells. However, when marv has a really long string of scumgames, he tends to get lazy, and his attitude begins to show. DeathNote Mini is a great example of this, and everything I've written in this game applies to that game as well. When marv gets lazy, he is very catchable on meta, and I've gathered several meta reads on him this game. Individually, I don't think they are damning, however, put together, and I believe they point strongly toward's marv's lazy-scum meta.

On October 24 2012 09:43 marvellosity wrote:


you never addressed at all how I've been trying to figure out alignments this game. stop bullshitting.

glad you wanna kill off a strong townie with only a 'small' chance you'll reconsider with whatever happens with my play. real townie-like.

On October 24 2012 10:04 drazak wrote:
Can you provide me with evidence to the contrary then? Town games in your last 10 or so games where you play like you have this game?

Wow, that post, I skimmed it before, but reading it again,I'm really starting to believe it, it's pretty comprehensive and those signs are pretty exact. I think if we lynch marv and he's scum, whomever the medic is has to save hapa because that wouldn't be a bus, but if marv isn't scum, maybe lynch hapa the next day?

On October 24 2012 10:23 DarthPunk wrote:
Hapa. Unvote plz.

On October 24 2012 10:28 austinmcc wrote:
There is more to Drazak than that post. I would still like to hear thoughts on the quotes that felt scummy to me.

On October 24 2012 10:27 DarthPunk wrote:
Look at that Vote count. Scum are highly unlikely to bus. Look at who is voting for marv off the bat. 2 of the scummiest players IMO. Unless the keir- marv thing was manufactured I don't see keir being buddies with him. nor austin. Maybe ZB. but honestly shit is looking far too easy.

On October 24 2012 10:33 DarthPunk wrote:
Hapa. Seriously ask yourself. Would Scum bus at this point? and if not who out of the 4 not voting for him is likely to be his buddy?

I had 2 candidates for marvs scum buddy. They both voted for him straight off the bat. I can't see any of the others being buddied with marv aside from ZB who you think is town.

On October 24 2012 10:42 Z-BosoN wrote:
hapa, I thought you wanted to lynch him at lylo? shit just got real. going to evaluate when I get home tomorrow (small trip) but atm I dont want to lynch marv. will read the case more carefully. I agree strongly on how he "seems detached from thread" and I did not like his reaction. the rest ill have to see more carefully. don't hammer him until tomorrow please.

On October 24 2012 11:14 drazak wrote:
You mean his lack of defense and his scumstall?

On September 19 2012 01:53 marvellosity wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote: Palmar

fuck you

On September 19 2012 01:54 marvellosity wrote:
don't care

On September 19 2012 01:57 marvellosity wrote:
Palmar is being awful

he should die

he read my alignment correctly in NMM3 and I refuse to believe he'd so arbitrarily get it so wrong here

straight OMGUS, deal with it

On September 19 2012 02:28 marvellosity wrote:
Palmar's play so far:

1. lol call 3 people scum for no reason
2. give out townreads to make self look townie (wow I can do this too, does this actually give town credit around here now? I should have known)
3. vote someone for no reason

na, piss off Palmar.

On September 19 2012 02:29 marvellosity wrote:


weak as shit

On October 24 2012 08:22 marvellosity wrote:
Well, I have a lot to answer for, apparently. I'll make a detailed defence if/when I'm still alive tomorrow.

One small tidbit I would note right now - my filter in Death Note over 7 cycles (taking out post-game talk) is as long as my filter is here during Night 1.

That's a whole different level of investment.

On October 24 2012 09:07 marvellosity wrote:
That wasn't the question, and I haven't been god-damn lazy. I've been doing my best. Quit fucking saying that.

On October 24 2012 11:17 austinmcc wrote:

I don't think of the comparison as something based on ... veterancy. I view it as just this weird thing that ALL scum players can fall victim to.

Scum knows Player X is town
Player X gets attacked
Scum chooses to defend Player X
Scum KNOWS X is town, rather than has a town read
So scum's defense is not fully based in-game, on things the thread can draw a read off of, but on assumptions/exaggerations/weirdness

I don't think falling into that pattern is a result of being a vet or not being a vet, it's just a result of being scum and knowing someone's alignment without having to follow along and develop an actual read on them for reasons.

On October 24 2012 11:24 drazak wrote:
He did say fuck off to you hapa, but yeah, he doesn't seem to be as angry as those other games, not sure if whiny, but certainly not as angry.

On October 25 2012 01:32 Keirathi wrote:
I don't think Hapa has a particularly strong "town" read on me, just a strong "not-scum-with-Marv" read? Presumably because I made the same case points he did, before he did.

On October 25 2012 01:45 Keirathi wrote:

That's a risky way of thinking. In GSL 1, I spent quite a lot of time being "suspicious" of prplhz, and relying on townies (mainly marv) to shut me down and keep him from getting lynched. But, I would have bussed him in a heartbeat :o

On October 25 2012 04:49 marvellosity wrote:
and now I've forgotten when I put the fucking pizza in the oven. Thanks.

On October 25 2012 06:57 austinmcc wrote:

Could you...explain this one a little?

I know that agreeing with his reads, or seeing the thought process, could ease your concerns over some of your meta points.

However, no matter what reads marv throws out, even if they match yours exactly, some of your other points would still be applicable, and the reads would have come only AFTER you've called him out and after all this time.

On October 22 2012 04:00 Hapahauli wrote:


Uhhgggh fine I'm scum.
+ Show Spoiler +

But in all seriousness, is there anything you want me to address? Like I don't understand this helpless attitude you're taking to making a read on me. I understand jokes to a point, but I'm not unreadable and I'm a bit suspicious of this nonchalant attitude you're taking to determining my alignment.

On October 25 2012 07:22 marvellosity wrote:
by a convenient claim?

and if i was medic or dt (presumably medic) i could blow yours up too.

you're not even making sense.

On October 25 2012 07:24 marvellosity wrote:


yes, I am.

you're so fucking convinced and you're so epically wrong.

Also, perhaps even more damning about you is the scumreads you've found after a day of searching. Your scumreads are 1) the person attacking you and 2) biggest lynch-bait in the game. That's optimal scum strategy in this situation, and there's no way its coincidence.

On October 25 2012 10:29 austinmcc wrote:

Aperture 2 is the only scum game I've played. Ruined my streak of townieness.

BTW guys, any comments on the setup (both the lynch/deadline setup and the role setup)? This was very different than the normal lynch mechanic TL Mafia uses and I'm wondering how it felt playing it to you guys

On October 25 2012 14:43 vaderseven wrote:


that after his approach to day 1 was a really tough spot to be in.

I personally don't agree with the self hammer but I can also see the gambit that was being attempted. Just not something I would do or want a scum team mate to do.

On October 25 2012 15:01 vaderseven wrote:


Having played alot of hammer games, I knew exactly how marv was going to flip the second I saw it happen. Marv has played enough games to think of small advantages and there is small advantages to scum self hammer (stops conversation for 1) and huge disadvantages to town self hammer. You can make a very good argument that town self hammering is actually playing vs your win condition (especially with this setup of no deadline).

yeah he does. Hapa is really good but also really abrasive (in my opinion) and ever since reading his first newbie game I have gotten a scum feeling from him in every game ever just because he rubs me the wrong way.

On October 26 2012 04:35 marvellosity wrote:
I had a hissy fit and called Hapa a dickhead on irc

it was bad enough going down but being antagonised at the same time pissed me off xD