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Also if anyone has some questions regarding my case, it might be a good time to discuss about it now 
So if you have some points against me that you feel that I didn't correctly addressed,
I have a feeling that you guys are considering defense as important as scumhunting so I'm willing to defend myself as much as I can now.
@ Kush
I'm not totally sold on you being scum right now: there is still a possibility for you to be town in my opinion.
@ everyone
I would recommend everyone to be wary because it could be very easy for mafia to mislynch Kush right now if he is town. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.
I was mafia in my last game and we benefited from the greatest mislynch ever on D2 because nobody took the time to think about the lynch twice.
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On October 28 2012 00:51 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2012 00:47 Djodref wrote:On October 27 2012 23:40 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On October 27 2012 23:19 Djodref wrote:"That being said, you were my best scum read at the time; but there was no chance of you being lynched." @ CheeseHere is a quote from you. On October 26 2012 12:50 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
/snip
The constant asking for info on Ingi / diverting attention, his useless "are you mafia?" question that I pointed out earlier, the inability to adequately answer some of the accusations/questions thrown at him. It doesn't add up. Actually, it does add up. I'm thinking he's scum. I've had a FoS on you for quite some time now, Djodref. Time to upgrade it.
##Vote: Djodref As you can see, I was a little more than your best scumread. Nevertheless, you gave little to no protest about lynching daoud or ini over me. Big scumtell in my book. Have a look at debears reactions when people started to vote daoud. He was trying to push his case until the end.This commitment is a big towntell. Where was your reaction when you came back to thhe tread and realized that a lynch on me was "not possible" ? No protest, no comments about other people being stupid or whatever, not trying to push my lynch. And you proceeding to compare the percentage daoud and Ini were giving for their townread on me to decide who to lynch between the two... do you have any comments to do on this ? FoS Cheese I appreciate your comment, Djodref. A lynch on you was "not possible" so close to the deadline when I returned (~45-30mins before lynch). I did want to get you lynched, but convincing everyone in such a time frame was not possible with everyone on Da0ud/inig. In my vote post of Da0ud I stated clearly that I still considered you highly suspicious, but I had to decide if Da0ud or Inig was a better case. What use is protesting everyone else, "calling them stupid" as you suggest, and pushing my case on you? That is simply advocating chaos in my book, and it's not my way of thinking; I will not flame the entire town for considering two other options than what I would rather pursue so close to deadline. My efforts were best spent deciding who was scummier. Pushing you till the end, and not weighing in on the debate at hand was illogical. This being said, you are still my biggest scumread and my FoS from d1 still applies to you. @ CheeseI think you should have made this kind of explanation at that time. Didn't you feel a little frustrated ? Of course I was frustrated. I come back to the thread and votes are stacked high on two other people. But is it really constructive to moan and groan about it? No. As I stated, energy was rather spent contributing to the lynch at hand. If you think crowding the thread with "My god people, why do we have these guys up for lynch?" is a better alternative, then you are sadly mistake.
@ Cheese
Well, if you really think that the two other people are less worth a lynch than your top scumread (which what your case I think, given the poor interest you had in daoud before you decided to lynch him), I think it is your responsibility as town to stand up and push your lynch. I'm sorry but I'm thinking that you are the one mistaken here.
No matter how late it is in the thread, you should try to push your top scumread. Otherwise, mafia is just going to push the townies everyday.
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On October 28 2012 01:43 Djodref wrote:
@ Kush
I'm not totally sold on you being scum right now: there is still a possibility for you to be town in my opinion.
What might that possibility be?
He was the first to incriminate the guy you wound up lynching and now he's acting like Rad and debears are to blame, what?
On October 27 2012 10:31 kushm4sta wrote:
Is debears like this every game? It's not how I remember him. And yeah debears you basically buttfucked us during the first half of day 1 when you had your little dickmeasuring contest with Rad, which NOTHING came out of. Nothing except spamming the thread to hell and making it unreadable.
Also
On October 27 2012 21:52 kushm4sta wrote:
He needed a fresh breath of pony mafia air because of the depressing shit that happened in this thread.
I don't see why town would want to drag down morale like that.
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Hey nacht you're here. Wanna give scumreads since you weren't here at all d1?
Also I want scumreads from all the people who were not able to participate d1.
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Djo is
#1 acting like my lynch is a certainty when it's definitely not. I have a lot of time to show you guys I am town and I will.
#2 Covering his ass if I get mislynched. Yet again.
I already told you I will make the case on you at the end of n1. You can defend yourself d2.
And you are telling vig to shoot me?? Seriously?? Because I pushed a mislynch d1.. lol that happens almost every game. And it was way better than you who was just liek damn guys I dont know who to lynch TT
On October 28 2012 01:43 Djodref wrote:Also if anyone has some questions regarding my case, it might be a good time to discuss about it now So if you have some points against me that you feel that I didn't correctly addressed, I have a feeling that you guys are considering defense as important as scumhunting so I'm willing to defend myself as much as I can now. @ KushI'm not totally sold on you being scum right now: there is still a possibility for you to be town in my opinion. @ everyoneI would recommend everyone to be wary because it could be very easy for mafia to mislynch Kush right now if he is town. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. I was mafia in my last game and we benefited from the greatest mislynch ever on D2 because nobody took the time to think about the lynch twice.
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@kush
Who's your biggest scum read besides djo?
Let's say you're town. How did the da0ud lynch happen? Who looks suspicious to you in regards to that? Why do you think support for it ramped up so quickly?
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On October 28 2012 01:06 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2012 01:02 Djodref wrote:On October 28 2012 00:57 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On October 28 2012 00:52 Djodref wrote:On October 27 2012 23:40 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On October 27 2012 23:23 Djodref wrote:On October 27 2012 21:52 kushm4sta wrote:
I know he's playing in the game and so am I... the game hasn't started yet though. He needed a fresh breath of pony mafia air because of the depressing shit that happened in this thread.
Djo I have not really put a lot of time into reading the thread and looking at filters, but my primary suspect just from preliminary observations is you.
I think your indecision at lynch time is a huge scumtell. It seems like you know that both of them were going to be town and wanted to gain town points by opposing both lynches. If you were town, and you really thought that none of them were scum, you would have tried to push someone who you actually thought was scum. But you did nothing except ask sylver endless questions with really no point to them. @ Kushscumslip much ? How is that a scumslip, Djo? @ Kush It seems like you know that both of them were going to be town and wanted to gain town points by opposing both lynches.You could have reproached to have known daoud's alignment. But it looks like that you know Ini's alignment. I think I see what you mean now, but he's explaining what he believes is your thought process / motivation, not his own. I can't really claim that to be a scumslip. @ Cheesetownie post: it seems like you knew that both of them would flip town and blabla scumslip post: It seems like you know that both of them were going to be town and blabla But I would agree that it is not a big scumtelll. @EveryoneWhat are your thoughts on this "scumtell". I really can't see it being one.
To me (and from what I have actually read) this seems to be the biggest scum-slip so far in the game (regardless of whether it is or isnt). I think this because we do not know anyone's alignments, especially day 1, and kush assumes the case that djo knows I am town, and by doing so indirectly himself as well. And I just got done typing a wifom kind of argument that I love making so much so I deleted it. Granted I find it a bigger slip simply because I know I am town. I have already said how I thought that kush obviously knows what he was doing, and saying something like this from this type of player does not feel like an oversight, and despite me claiming and them having town reads on me you still wouldnt know for certain. This combined with these other cases being brought against him I feel all hold at least a little weight and have me feeling utterly wary of kush, especially his arrogant 'yeah, funny/dumb cases' as his defense. I would like more defenses with less mocking/anger in them, but if that if your playstyle so be it.
-Also kush telling of debears talking in other threads and PMs and whatnot up-front seems to discredit debears and give kush credibility by being the 'good guy' and bringing info to the thread. It could be used in a case against debears, for example, but kush just puts it out there. I think the motive seems more about gaining more power and discrediting debears rather than really trying to inform the thread. I think town has very little to gain by knowing this knowledge because it can be taken out of context and any number of ways, and kiush should have just pmed host and be done with it.
Now, it could have been a 'what if' or a 'next-step' mindset. Granted some reasons why kush could have had the mindset to say he knows and says djo knows Im town: Ive claimed, kush had town reads on me, djo had changed to more town reads on me, so the setting assumed I was town. The problem I have with calling it a true scum-slip is that kush is in the best position to get lynched because of the mislynch on da0ud, making arguments easier and seemingly hold more power. Added to the fact that my own scum-read wants to off kush now has me mimicking djos feelings on kush (see above post). I need moooooore from kush to solve this, and before I would vote for him.
@Djo
The longer time goes on, you are slowly losing town credibility with me. Your contribution is high, and frankly this is becoming your game because your posting like a 1/3+ of the posts lol (and have a 10 page filter). For simply this reason I want you still alive because you are so active. Ive liked your recent contributions though, so I just want more solid content from you, rather than being so all over the place. Thats the other thing. Because you are so 'everywhere' but havent ever had really strong opinions on things (besides me for most of day1) it makes your 'unsure trying to be safe townie' look change to a 'careful mafia' look the longer time goes on. Ignore the pokes at you that lack real substance and give us more cases to discuss rather than your play. Your case against me was good, it got me to shape up and post better. And I like this discussion between cheese if it will get deeper.
@Mr cheese.
Kinda the same read I have with djo. The longer time goes on the more it seems like you are being super neutral/safe. Nothing you post has an edge to it, which while it is a quality I admire, it makes it difficult to really confirm anything with you, which leads to greater suspicions. The only real scum-hunting cases you have had are against da0ud and djo. I thought your arguments against da0ud were good because they were true, da0ud was acting scummy. So dont feel bad about it, keep going on the case with djo and see it you can get anything new. I would really like more so I can solidify my ideas about djo.
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I am looking into it now. I thought debears was acting different from how I kind of remembered him but he seems like he's fitting his meta ok.
Town read on debears
Will be back with other scumreads.
My scumslip people are talking about what's a scumslip.
I think Inig is town.
I think djo was acting like he knew inig was town and also knew daoud was town.
I would be pretty surprised if inig's performance is a first time mafia.
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How did the daoud lynch happen?
Well he was asking for it number 1.
We had no better lynch number 2.
We had a pretty bad d1 with a lot of wasted talk about confidence and debear's dickmeasuring contest.
I think what happened was the top 2 bandwagons were both town, so scum was just like LOL easy day.
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On October 28 2012 02:51 kushm4sta wrote:
I am looking into it now. I thought debears was acting different from how I kind of remembered him but he seems like he's fitting his meta ok.
Town read on debears
Will be back with other scumreads.
My scumslip people are talking about what's a scumslip.
I think Inig is town.
I think djo was acting like he knew inig was town and also knew daoud was town.
I would be pretty surprised if inig's performance is a first time mafia.
I did not consider this thought (bolded). I need to think about this.
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On October 28 2012 01:55 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2012 00:51 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On October 28 2012 00:47 Djodref wrote:On October 27 2012 23:40 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On October 27 2012 23:19 Djodref wrote:"That being said, you were my best scum read at the time; but there was no chance of you being lynched." @ CheeseHere is a quote from you. On October 26 2012 12:50 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
/snip
The constant asking for info on Ingi / diverting attention, his useless "are you mafia?" question that I pointed out earlier, the inability to adequately answer some of the accusations/questions thrown at him. It doesn't add up. Actually, it does add up. I'm thinking he's scum. I've had a FoS on you for quite some time now, Djodref. Time to upgrade it.
##Vote: Djodref As you can see, I was a little more than your best scumread. Nevertheless, you gave little to no protest about lynching daoud or ini over me. Big scumtell in my book. Have a look at debears reactions when people started to vote daoud. He was trying to push his case until the end.This commitment is a big towntell. Where was your reaction when you came back to thhe tread and realized that a lynch on me was "not possible" ? No protest, no comments about other people being stupid or whatever, not trying to push my lynch. And you proceeding to compare the percentage daoud and Ini were giving for their townread on me to decide who to lynch between the two... do you have any comments to do on this ? FoS Cheese I appreciate your comment, Djodref. A lynch on you was "not possible" so close to the deadline when I returned (~45-30mins before lynch). I did want to get you lynched, but convincing everyone in such a time frame was not possible with everyone on Da0ud/inig. In my vote post of Da0ud I stated clearly that I still considered you highly suspicious, but I had to decide if Da0ud or Inig was a better case. What use is protesting everyone else, "calling them stupid" as you suggest, and pushing my case on you? That is simply advocating chaos in my book, and it's not my way of thinking; I will not flame the entire town for considering two other options than what I would rather pursue so close to deadline. My efforts were best spent deciding who was scummier. Pushing you till the end, and not weighing in on the debate at hand was illogical. This being said, you are still my biggest scumread and my FoS from d1 still applies to you. @ CheeseI think you should have made this kind of explanation at that time. Didn't you feel a little frustrated ? Of course I was frustrated. I come back to the thread and votes are stacked high on two other people. But is it really constructive to moan and groan about it? No. As I stated, energy was rather spent contributing to the lynch at hand. If you think crowding the thread with "My god people, why do we have these guys up for lynch?" is a better alternative, then you are sadly mistake. @ CheeseWell, if you really think that the two other people are less worth a lynch than your top scumread (which what your case I think, given the poor interest you had in daoud before you decided to lynch him), I think it is your responsibility as town to stand up and push your lynch. I'm sorry but I'm thinking that you are the one mistaken here. No matter how late it is in the thread, you should try to push your top scumread. Otherwise, mafia is just going to push the townies everyday.
You're kidding me. How would pushing my case on you with less than an hour to go result in getting you lynched? I would have to persuade, what, 6 people in that time frame? Many of who weren't there at the time. I would rather give my opinion on the two people that are dividing the town and ensure that the scummiest get lynched.
In reference to the bold section, don't be a hypocrite. Your top scumread was Inig for the entiriety of d1, then out of nowhere you vote Da0ud, with little to no explanation. Also, who else would mafia push?
Also, I'll be posting my case on you later, likely after daybreak.
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On October 28 2012 02:53 kushm4sta wrote:
How did the daoud lynch happen?
Well he was asking for it number 1.
We had no better lynch number 2.
We had a pretty bad d1 with a lot of wasted talk about confidence and debear's dickmeasuring contest.
I think what happened was the top 2 bandwagons were both town, so scum was just like LOL easy day.
You know what sucks here is you came in late, so we never got your opinion on lurker policy lynch.
Little late now but I assume, because of your actions, you're for lynching your biggest scum tell regardless of how solid you feel it is over a pure lurker? You've admitted you didn't think the case against da0ud was very good, just that it was better than the case against inig, so you chose a bad case over lurker lynch really quickly.
Does anyone have any meta tells on this?
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Okay, first things first. Da0ud was mislynched, the people who enabled him as a possible lynch target was kush and myself. Arguing about my own motivations is WIFOM hell so I won't go there. That leaves kush as someone I can scrutinise.
I have difficulty accepting that kush preferring da0ud over Inig is somehow a scum tell. Truth be told the lynch targets we had available were all quite weak so he can hardly be blamed for preferring da0ud over someone else. However, two things do stand out to me. Like debears pointed out kush seems to be very selective in the way he argues meta. That in itself isn't necessarily a scum tell, meta reads have a tendency to be more "feel" than anything else. The thing I'm referring to with regards to his meta is his claim that he doesn't know debears meta. That's almost definitely a lie or at the very least some massive laziness, neither of which is very pro-town.
The second point that I can agree can be seen as scummy about kush is that he presented his case against da0ud after I had called da0ud out for making very little sense. Scum using someone else's suspicions against another player is a very easy way to get a case to stick, especially in the situation we had where there was no real clear scum candidate for lynch. However, I would like to point out that I reacted to da0ud's Inig vote very quickly after he posted it. This means that it would be almost impossible for anyone, scum or no, to make an original case against da0ud. To me this means that we can't just jump on kush for using "my idea" to call out da0ud as scummy. I think we can all agree that da0ud was making very little sense at that point in the game and as such I think kush's actions towards da0ud is a null tell at best.
I will look more closely into how kush acted towards other players however. If an argument can be made that preferring da0ud over Inig was actually scummy, then I'd be willing to see it as a scum tell, but with the information we have right now I just can't do that. I'm definitely suspicious about his attempts to discredit debears, so all in all I think kush is leaning towards slightly scummy.
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Of course as I'm posting, kush backtracks on his debears statements. I'm going to go ahead and assume him to be genuine for now, basically leaving me at ~null wrt kush.
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How is it a lie that I don't know debears meta lol... I don't even remember which game I played with him in full.
In other I was dead within hours basically lol.
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Scumreads other than djodref:
sylverfire: a lot of words, very little content
roco: why didn't this guy get modkilled... did he even vote?
nacht: where's the scumreads? Are you reading d1 or what?
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On October 28 2012 03:14 kushm4sta wrote:
Scumreads other than djodref:
sylverfire: a lot of words, very little content
roco: why didn't this guy get modkilled... did he even vote?
nacht: where's the scumreads? Are you reading d1 or what?
roco is in the state of "to be replaced" I think
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I'm out for a few hours, I'll be back in advance for the day post.
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@djo if you are having doubts about my scumminess then who do you think is scum?
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On October 28 2012 03:08 kushm4sta wrote:
How is it a lie that I don't know debears meta lol... I don't even remember which game I played with him in full.
In other I was dead within hours basically lol. You may have been dead, but you participated in the obs QT well after you were killed. I can fetch the link to the QT to prove it.
Like I said however, it could simply just be you being massively lazy and not wanting to remember, which is why I concluded that you're pretty much null to me so far or at the very least until we get more info.
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EPT
