EPTTL Mafia LVIII
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
And how long do these games usually last? | ||
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yamato77
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I wanna play scum for once and this seems like the game to do it in. | ||
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yamato77
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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yamato77
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yamato77
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*cougheywa-cough* Don't want to have to go all day 1 with zero posts from some people. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 03 2013 07:12 Hopeless1der wrote: I will have nothing to do with a policy lynch on any specific player. If a player warrants such treatment, they shouldn't be allowed to play in the first place. You may not like grush's playstyle, but I don't find it entirely devoid of reason or thinking. I am willing to go after lurkers, but that's about as far as I am concerned with policy. @wbg voters: dafuq? Hopeless, Why so serious? | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 03 2013 07:17 Hopeless1der wrote: How long do you want the start of the game to be trivial nonsense? The sooner we get started the better, no? Yamato, why does bugs have 2 votes already? Because Toad and Palmar want to troll the shit out of Bugs like they always do. It doesn't seem meaningful to me. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 03 2013 07:20 Palmar wrote: I'm not trolling. I'm sincerely suggesting we policy lynch Bugs to start the game off. 1) It'd be fucking hilarious 2) He's wrong as town 3) He's good as scum So you're following my suggestion from our last game with our Buggy friend, eh? I almost think it's a good idea. | ||
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yamato77
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Marv you know better so you starting this Palmar is scum stuff is fishy. | ||
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yamato77
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I agree that Bugs can get in the way of scumhunt when he is town and when scum is possibly highly difficult to catch. Basically the definition of a policy lynch. Complete coin flip. I'm not saying lynch Bugs but I can see where Palmar is coming from. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 03 2013 08:42 marvellosity wrote: I just knew you'd come into the thread saying something like this. Palmar is not a "normal" player that you can attribute your stupid heuristics to. So then how does him pushing this lynch make him scum, Marv? Enlighten me, O Mighty One. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 03 2013 08:48 marvellosity wrote: because he's trolling and his discussions on wbg didn't actually move the thread forward. There was no point to anything he did. You come in telling me outspoken player isn't scum when you know I just finished a game as scum with a 20+ page filter. Cmon man. Is scum Palmar as good as scum Marv? Post count =/= loudness in the thread. Iamp always posts a lot but I don't know if I would consider him outspoken. Palmar is putting his opinion out there in a way that would, and obviously did, bring the discussion to thoughts on his own intentions. The only angle you have is that there is little development in the idea of lynching Bugs. People say yes or no, and that's it. There's nothing to it because Bugs isn't posting and probably won't for a while due to some extenuating circumstances. So you think Palmar made this play with the intention of looking like he's opinionated without being opinionated or is he doing this because of the reasons he actually said he was? | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 03 2013 08:54 Lazermonkey wrote: Leaning town on yamato. No scum in their right minds would defend Palmars troll vote on WBG. It would be standard scum-getting-free-townie-points play by dismissing it. With that said, I think his logic is bad. You didn't play with Bugs last game like me, Toad, and Palmar did. You don't know. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
As for actual scum, I think hopeless looks pretty bad right now. Toad pointed the post out earlier and I think he's been pretty useless despite not wanting us all to waste time. I have to go so that's my thought on the game for now. Be back later with some updated ideas. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 03 2013 09:12 Tunkeg wrote: You think hopeless looks pretty bad now? For not wanting the thread to waste time on a silly policy lynch? Line up the reasons. Don't just spit this out, without any reasons behind it. What ewxactly is scummy about it. Please explain... It was a pointless post. All he says is "guys stop wasting time." And now he's gone, being useless. He hasn't said anything meaningful himself. Cognitive dissonance, if you will. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 03 2013 09:22 Tunkeg wrote: Like pretty much all the posts in this game thus far. He then stated pretty clearly that he is not interested in any policy lynches besides a lynch lurker policy. If his posting thus far make him look pretty bad, I wonder how you scale things, because really, this little information on him is in my book not even enough to be leaning one way or the other.I don't like these types of FOS'es at all. I don't like people who complain about how townies are playing. Go away. All you're doing is wasting both our time. | ||
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yamato77
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Hopeless has been a zero presence poster. His only contribution is to tell other people that they are wasting time. He is worthy of my suspicion. | ||
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yamato77
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They basically just post to post. The only alignment indicative things they do in the game is lynch people. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 03 2013 11:40 Hopeless1der wrote: Or rather, try to lynch townies. This post is useless, quite like your suspicions against me. What would you like to hear from me yamato? Do you have any thoughts about the game that don't involve policy lynches? | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 03 2013 11:46 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Waddaya guys think about this vote? Scummiest in thread so far imo. "So yeah I'm just going to park my vote riiiiiight here. But I'll totes change it guys don't worry" Nah Tunkeg was being an idiot, and Lazer throws his vote around. Means nothing. | ||
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yamato77
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Do you have any scum reads? | ||
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yamato77
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On January 03 2013 22:38 Adam4167 wrote: Interesting choice for someone who didn't want to lynch a vet. Why did you pick him specifically? Adam you never answered my question and it has been long enough. Who are your scum reads? No BS about not having any because you are posting, just not anything meaningful. | ||
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yamato77
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Right now I think it's you because I haven't seen a lot of substance in what you've said so far. | ||
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yamato77
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He responded with an answer when I asked him his thoughts on the game which is enough for me to look at other people whom are posting without saying anything. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 03 2013 16:18 thrawn2112 wrote: hi yamato I don't see where a town palmar could *seriously* be coming from. I can see where he'd be coming from if the purpose is to start discussion but the idea that he could have a legitimate reason to policy lynch someone like wbg is crazy. yamato you are saying palmar's 'policy vote' makes palmar more likely to be town? the bolded part reads as "I'm having to fake my scumreads" Hi thrawn I think you'll see in both exchanges you picked posts out of more explanation for my actions that you seem to think is lacking. If you sincerely believe me scum you are wasting your time. Yours truly, Yamato <3 | ||
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yamato77
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I am disappointed. Filter diving! | ||
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yamato77
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Remember last game when I kept saying debears wasn't playing like town debears. This doesn't look like town Palmar. Town Palmar gave reads and interacted with the thread. This Palmar is being a dick. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 03 2013 23:46 Palmar wrote: Hey yamato77 remember that time when I cared about what you had to say? ... neither do I Is that everyone's favorite card to pull? I don't know how many times people have called me useless when I accuse them but in my experience those players were not town. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 03 2013 23:53 Vivax wrote: Yamato, don't you think I'm a little much suspicious? What the fuck kind of pointless question is that? HEY I'M SCUM I SWEAR! | ||
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yamato77
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yamato77
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yamato77
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On January 04 2013 00:00 Palmar wrote: That's a good effort compared to the last time you played scum Adam, maybe you'll live to day 2 this game. This is the first post you've made in a while with some sort of read in it yet I'm supposed to take you seriously? Okay Palmar. | ||
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yamato77
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yamato77
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##Vote: Palmar | ||
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yamato77
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Palmar you being dumb. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 04 2013 00:46 Palmar wrote: Dude you just don't get it. I defended you earlier today from Marv but now you're being stupid and I agree with him. I am not tunneling, and you know better, so I lynch you for being stupid. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 04 2013 01:10 Jackal58 wrote: Town Palmar and scum Palmar can both be dicks. Don't even try to use that as a read. Lynching Palmar on day one is usually a bad idea. Blowing him up on the other hand is hilarious. Don't worry Palmar. Kurumi did not give me a bim. I'm going off my experience with him from the game I just died in. He may be a dick as either alignment but he's not a stupid townie so right now I'd say he's playing scummy. | ||
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yamato77
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yamato77
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On January 04 2013 01:48 iamperfection wrote: look at cc's posts he throws some shit by asking everyone's opinion on something and then does nothing with it. he dosent push his read he says something is scummy runs away and gives no reasoning I responded to the post. CC is not contributing, I agree, but that goes for the majority of players atm. | ||
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yamato77
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yamato77
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On January 04 2013 02:06 Chezinu wrote: yamato77 thraw marv What is this supposed to be? Some kind of half-baked scum list? | ||
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yamato77
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yamato77
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On January 04 2013 02:11 VisceraEyes wrote: Half-baked because only half of you are on it? ^^ Half-baked because he includes zero reasoning and zero other things besides names of people. Pretty useless IMO. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 04 2013 02:13 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I think you're taking it a little too seriously. And talking about random names will just clutter up this thread even more. If those are his honest scum reads I think the guy is full of shit and totally worthless to town, as he has been basically the whole game so far. That's my point. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 04 2013 02:16 Toadesstern wrote: Yamato, do you have a game of yourself in which you ended up playing mafia? I for once would be willing to read a short one, but only once. So if you've got a mini you played as mafia please link :3 Nope, still have only rolled town. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 04 2013 02:20 BloodyC0bbler wrote: A trolling chez is typically more useful then 90% of the players in a game. You may not like that answer or agree with it but it is straight up fact. I've never played with him before so I have no idea if this is the case or not. However, this logic is used to defend a lot of veteran players on Day 1, so I don't think it particularly useful to say at the moment. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 04 2013 02:25 BloodyC0bbler wrote: eh? You will find that logic should be shot and burned for all players who are not notoriously trollish regardless of alignment of vet players. IE chez or bill murray. Anyone else trying to pull off the "hes trolling day 1 its fine" argument is retarded. Day 1 people begin the trend of how they will play in a game typically. A day 1 troll is likely going to be a troll all game. The only difference is if they have random insight in their posts. So far only chez's rantings are even remotely interesting / relevant from the trolls. What has he said that has been worthwhile so far? | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 04 2013 02:27 HiroPro wrote: my thoughts: perfection is town. froggynoddy has a good chance to be mafia. lazermonkey could also be, but i'm less sure about him. could just be the way he plays. and vivax probably town too. the rest of you - who the hell knows? AMA Who are you going to lynch? | ||
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yamato77
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On January 04 2013 02:32 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Go read his filter. Im not your translator and hes being insanely direct for his normal insanity. He clearly has posted his reads and even called people out. Find out which ones and *gasp* you might realize his posts do actually contain content. I know who he thinks is suspicious but I have no idea why he thinks that or how he thinks what he's doing is helping town lynch those people. It looks like finger pointing masked by a roleplay facade. But fine, I'll give him time because I have reads that lead me elsewhere. You vouching for him is enough to make me reconsider my position at the moment. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 04 2013 02:49 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Ive never played a game with you to my knowledge so why is my vouching enough to dissuade you? So far you seem like a player who is playing straight up, unlike most of the veterans in this game. I have no current reason to mistrust your judgment, and you would know Chezinu better than I would. I don't like what he's doing but that doesn't make him mafia necessarily, and I know I could have a biased opinion because I know his biggest scum read in the game at the moment, me, is definitely not scum. I tend to think veterans who are wrong are scum, but I should know better. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 04 2013 02:56 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Id argue his biggest scum read is thrawn but to each their own. I understand fully why he views you as fishy though. I'm not sure I understand but perhaps that is one of my shortcomings as a player. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 04 2013 03:00 BloodyC0bbler wrote: possible. I dont have enough to build a case so just keep in mind your being watched. Id say for what, but that would ruin the point of it all. Fair enough. Who else is on your watch list, BC? | ||
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yamato77
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On January 04 2013 03:07 Toadesstern wrote: Yamato are you actively trying to improve by listening to what I told you in the Obs-QT a couple days ago ? It was easier to read you yesterday  Btw I'd really love to know who's got access to that stupid obs-QT because of that one paragraph I directed at you and some other things people said. Mind updating the OP Marv? :p What do you mean? Today I'm playing bad again? I think it's possible. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 04 2013 03:09 Toadesstern wrote: Oh, if you got any thoughts about debears I'd like hearing them Yamato. You just played with him as well. Aynthing that you'd consider worth a thing about him? Hm. Debears hasn't posted much, and what he has posted wasn't scum hunting. That's about it. So much like many players, I'm waiting to see what their plan is for this game. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 04 2013 03:11 Toadesstern wrote: Nah, you're actually way more reseverd in the way you're posting right now. No rambo "let's fuck this shit and lynch this guy because he disagrees with me and therefore has to be a retard". I've realized I'm often wrong, and sometimes right. My best strength I think is going to lie in analyzing differences in people's play from game to game. Right now my strongest reads are on players I have played with before. Like for instance Palmar, the guy I want to lynch. He's nothing like town Palmar from last game, I don't know what he's doing at all. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 04 2013 03:22 iamperfection wrote: @yamato palmar has a plan that is all What is this plan and why are you apparently the only one that sees it? | ||
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yamato77
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Don't be stupid guys. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 04 2013 03:47 kushm4sta wrote: wow i just read 12 pages. The only thing I got from that is cheesecake is looking pretty scummy and palmar is being a useless troll. Bingo. Which one do you want to lynch? | ||
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yamato77
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yamato77
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On January 04 2013 07:32 debears wrote: Chezinu the Brown I love you, Debears of the Brown Hey bitch be useful or I lynch you like last game. | ||
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yamato77
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Shut up and find scum. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 04 2013 10:31 marvellosity wrote: I'm still pretty happy with my vote on Palmar, for reasons already given. There's nothing in what Palmar has done so far that suggests in the slightest that he gives a shit for town, and he should be one of the town leaders. This is further exacerbated by a conversation I had with him on IRC a few days ago. We were just talking about his play a little, and I'd told him that a weakness in his play was that he often got caught up in thinking what a town player "should" do, and being wrong as being a scumtell. Shortly after he wrote this in a QT: "Palmar 12-31-2012 08:39 PM ET (US) I have a weakness in my game where I just think everyone that doesn't agree with me when I'm right is scum, and everyone who does is town. There is absolutely no reason for me to think Bugs is scum, only the fact he's been wrong all game long. That doesn't make him scum though." And twice in this conversation on IRC, related to this, he said that Day 1 was his strongest day, because he's not encumbered with flips and this sense of right and wrong. So his manner of play today makes this even more galling. This is supposedly his strongest day as town by some margin, and he's decided to use it by claiming scum 3 times, generally trolling, giving no reads, or at least no explanation for his reads. As far as I can see, he's banking on people viewing his retarded play as town somehow, even though there is literally nothing townie about it. Recently in his townplay he has been quite happy to tell people why he finds certain people town, and then when he decides someone is scummy, he gives good reasons why. Just none of it this game. This guy knows what he's talking about. Town Palmar doesn't act the way the Palmar in this game is acting. | ||
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yamato77
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yamato77
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On January 04 2013 15:04 Chezinu wrote: Look into my eyes... I sense great anger.... Is it frustration I see? Tension comes from deep within... Relax you mind, let us take control... Debears is with you... you will obey the Brown... Say he is your brother... speak the words... Tell me, Chezinu, am I friend or foe in your eyes? Right now I'm not trusting of debears' judgement but you are, why? | ||
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yamato77
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I urge everyone to consider the implications of a mason claim with logs posted late. Invested scum could make it work. | ||
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yamato77
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CC I can almost get behind but I'm not sure how much seriously I take the arguments for his lynch. He's been useless, sure, but he hasn't exactly done so in a scummy way. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 04 2013 17:43 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: wait so playing anti town doesn't reveal his alignment or at least in anyway give you reason to question him? Damn that's a new one, I've only been gone for like 6 months and the meta has changed that much? Look at the large number of players doing nothing this game. They can't all be scum. | ||
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yamato77
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Clarity do I look scummy to you? It's okay, you can say the 's' word. I give you permission. | ||
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yamato77
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I know town debears is not a bad player so I want to see him succeed, not push lynches on dumb townies. That's scum play, sir. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 04 2013 19:04 Palmar wrote: yamato, what if I told you we should lynch marvellosity. Only if you prove to me you're town. If you're town I believe Marv is likely scum. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 04 2013 19:05 Clarity_nl wrote: But you didn't call it bad play, you called it "fake scumhunting". So do you think he's scum or not? I could see Tunkeg as a really easy target for some fake scumhunt attempts and debears is pushing it real hard so I want him to realize this fact. I'm not sold on Tunkeg actually being scum. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 04 2013 19:09 Palmar wrote: My alignment has nothing to do with Marv's. But I think I found the first missing member of my team. I am pretty sure I could easily convince you I'm town, but I feel like that's the wrong way to go about it. How about I convince you marv is scum first? You convincing me Marv is scum would definitely aid in my thinking you are town. Give me your best shot. | ||
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yamato77
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Okay, scum team. | ||
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Mainly his scum read on Marv. That should be a good one. He keeps calling me town, which is correct, so he's either playing like smart Palmar from last game or he's buddying me and hoping I sheep him like I did last game. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 04 2013 19:37 Lazermonkey wrote: EBWOP: Besides, is there any argument for NOT showing the logs, given that they have already claimed? Do you want scum knowing your thoughts on every player? | ||
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yamato77
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On January 04 2013 19:45 wherebugsgo wrote: Palmar has no case on marv, that's probably why he spent 5 minutes trolling you with that and then switched off to attacking Meapak. Clearly it's working. It's not like I've moved my vote or anything. But if the guy is town I want to give him a chance. | ||
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yamato77
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Palmar got his head out if his ass and now looks like town Palmar. Even Marv cannot deny that at this point. BC looks scummy for saying otherwise. By extension this makes me see Marv as more likely to be scum. I don't give a shit about meta on Marv because he is a good enough player to change it, but I do care that his strongest scum read, and indeed the only person he has really tried to push a lynch on, is actually town. Palmar gave the reason that Marv changing his read from null to scum while Palmar is trolling, and this is somewhat indicative of my thoughts on the matter. It was after I pointed out that Palmar wasn't taking the game seriously like he did when I saw town Palmar that Marv decides to attack that angle of his play and vote for him. It worked, I sheeped it, because it was right. However Marv hadn't given any indication before this point that he wanted to lynch Palmar for what he was doing. He had said it was all not alignment indicative. Not to mention that town Marv doesn't get lynched. He said soi himself before the very first game I played with him. Town Marv would never be in this position because by now people would actually have a town read on him. He hasn't done anything to give me that sense of his intentions this game which makes me all the more comfortable with switching my vote off of Palmar and onto Marv. Sorry Marv, but if you're town you haven't done a good job proving it to me. ##Unvote ##Vote: Marvellosity | ||
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yamato77
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you guys have zero insight into my play | ||
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yamato77
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On January 05 2013 06:10 wherebugsgo wrote: who knows, he's either pissed off or he's scum who knows he's dead. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=373946¤tpage=84#1672 wut? LOL you've done nothing but sheep Palmar. In fact, before Palmar made his case on marv you were sheeping marv in attacking Palmar! Saying you've come to the conclusion by yourself on reasons you made on your own to lynch marv is incredibly misrepresentative of what actually happened in this game. It's not even a good lie. Bugs you couldn't read me to she your life. Last game you thought I was scum after I made an unopposed Miller claim and lynched the GF day 1. This game I'm being less of an overreactive asshole an now people want to use it against me. Perhaps I sheeped a couple times but the lynches agreed with my own reasoning. If you don't see that in my filter you're just lying. | ||
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yamato77
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this is exactly why Palmar's policy lynch of you made sense to me you're a useless dick who can't play town correctly to save his life | ||
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On January 05 2013 06:22 wherebugsgo wrote: haha the vitriol comes out after you've been accused of being scum so funny Nah I'm just tired of your trolly shit. And you didn't accuse me of scum, remember? So which is it, Bugs, are you calling me scum or not? You're a waste of time | ||
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yamato77
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On January 05 2013 06:25 marvellosity wrote: why the fuck wouldn't i claim? if i died without claiming, people would go "why didn't you claim?" now you have the choice to lynch the uncounterclaimed cop (and i won't be) or someone else. You claim with less than an hour left. If I want to believe you I have no time to look at anyone else. this is ripe for bad decision making. Sorry marv, you should have claimed earlier if you didn't want to die | ||
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yamato77
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yamato77
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tomorrow I tunnel you npnp | ||
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yamato77
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If you disagree tell me why | ||
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yamato77
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I can't speak for everyone in this game, but I believe my win con states that I actually have to kill mafia. To do that I have to be able to find them but right now it is a difficult task discerning stupid from scum, sheep from wolf. Some of you players ought to rethink your strategy this game. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 05 2013 23:58 Djodref wrote: I don't think marv is going to get allowed to quit. You should calm down and write your case. Who else do you have as scum ? Bugs and VE. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 06 2013 00:13 Clarity_nl wrote: I haven't really read bugs but VE is town yo. Look at him he's so happy he hasn't rolled scum for like the billionth time in a row. VE spams a lot of useless posts and looks like he has no spine. But I guess that is town play in this game so I'll take your word for it. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 06 2013 00:23 kushm4sta wrote: you give up on your scumread so easily. Also he didn't day that about ve in his last post. So you must have already known that about his scumplay, so why did you list him as a scumread? I was making a joke about how town has posted so far, not saying something about VE's meta. He's still scummy but a lot of people have acted exactly the same way and they can't all be scum. | ||
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yamato77
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I'm just going to look at day 1 voting and go from there. | ||
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On January 06 2013 14:30 iamperfection wrote: seems fine to me he has been wrong about everything so thats a good sign iamp knows what's up Also there's no reason not to kill jackal so I'll go vote him in the vote thread | ||
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yamato77
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It's okay I have had a scum read on VE too Fuck those vets | ||
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yamato77
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I'm not wrong EVERY time. | ||
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yamato77
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Anyway I'm going to go read through the end of day 1 where I was posting on my phone from work. I will find the scummy votes and lynch them on the morrow. | ||
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yamato77
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Marv didn't say so but he wasn't really in a position to OMGUS the guy who was accusing him with a massive following. Palmar might be a good lynch, especially if he decides to do nothing from here on out. Scum to me in this situation would have flip flopped between the wagons of Marv and BC because either one was a good lynch. VE did this with a bunch of shit posts talking with Marv. First he didn't opposed the Marv lynch, then he did, then he voted for BC with a weak ass justification. People opposing either lynch look townie to me because of the reverse of that logic. Keir, Prom, Bugs (deceased). These are just my initial thoughts. VE is scummy though for sure. | ||
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yamato77
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My bad VE you're not that scummy. | ||
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yamato77
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I didn't like hopeless from the start so I can get behind that lynch. MZ is a popular lynch idea for tomorrow already so that's good. Palmar I have no idea how to tell if he's scum. There's plenty of evidence that he's not but I don't know to what lengths he would go to win as scum. | ||
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yamato77
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I guess everyone thought they had to type in the thread but that ability seemed really strong to me. They give up a KP the night before, which could be blocked, for an UNBLOCKABLE KP the next day to use at any time. Super strong. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 07 2013 06:58 Foolishness wrote: Here are two of his filter's from games when he is town: Witchcraft MINI Mafia Newbie MINI Mafia XXXII The first thing one should immediately notice is the amount of times he's posting. In a 13 player game he had an outstanding 23 pages of filter. In a 9 player game (the Newbie game) he had 7 pages of filter in the first cycle (he was killed night 1). This is a guy who likes to post. He likes to be a Bill Murray or Coagulation. He wants to post and respond to everything that's going on. I shouldn't need to tell you that this game he hasn't even had a full page of posts yet. Though his filter has been mostly one liners it's clear that he does not care about this game. His second most recent post is this: And he never followed through on his "cooking up". He admitted in one of his earlier posts that he's not contributing: But he hasn't done anything to try to redeem himself. He does not care. His taunting of us to sheep his lynch is also very disturbing. It doesn't accomplish anything for the town. He did it in the above post and in the following: What is the purpose of him doing that? It does nothing except draw attention away from himself. He doesn't want attention drawn to himself. He doesn't want anyone calling him out. He does it to make us scared of calling him scum. He wants out of the spotlight because he is mafia. In the two games he was town I put above, you can clearly see how vested he is in the game. Take one of his posts from witchcraft mini + Show Spoiler + On December 22 2012 07:05 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: THIS WAS TYPED UP QUICKLY, DON'T EXPECT TOO MUCH ORGANIZATION, BUT MY OPINION STANDS. I'M ABOUT TO ASK KUSH TO VOTE JX WITH ME. HE KNOWS HE WILL FLIP TOWN. THEN TOWN LYNCHES ME / DJO = SCUMWIN. IF KUSH VOTES WITH ME FOR JX -- EYWA / KUSH SCUMTEAM GG Don't flatter yourself. The only thing I saw was a meta case which was questionable and his reluctance to lynch DYH. I truly believe Djo is Innocent, I cannot pair him up with a scumbuddy. Do JX / Eywa make sense? No, he's pushed for the lynch of JX hardcore and flamed with Eywa, who even called him part of the scumteam. Do I make sense? Yes, I do, but I'm town. Djo's only "scummy quality" is his reluctance to lynch DYH. That's it. If I recall, didn't KUSH actively attempt to PREVENT the DYH lynch? Trying to protect his scumbuddy. FAKECLAIM! Calling it right now. You want to know why he was SAFE to fakeclaim? Nobody else claimed. He was trying to see if any town were empowered by witchcraft. Thrawn also was likely to be witchcrafted, since I think at least 2 people voted for him. He also knows that at least I voted for him. He is completely safe to make this fakeclaim -- A scry on DYH. And DYH just happened to be the priest, how convenient. The entire situation just seems to convenient for Kush. He didn't even breadcrumb the god-damned check. Then, he tries to push a mislynch, JX. Look at his reasons for voting JX... 100% knew morb was town... SO DID EYWA. Cases built on terrible reasoning... EYWA MORESO. Why does he want to lynch JX over Eywa? Because he's his scumbuddy. Look at his hard-defense of Eywa. Think about it: Does Kush EVER defend people like this? First time forum mafia game my ass, so what. Normal Kush wouldn't give a damn. Kush's case on Djo is OKAY to say the least, but it hinges on only one thing: reluctance to lynch DYH. Kush was SO MUCH MORE reluctant, trying to push another mislynch, and only bussing at the very last second. Why does he think Eywa is town?? Mad that he's getting pressured? Eywa Kush scumteam. And look at this BS: Let's see, everyone that is dead and someone that claims to have powers. lol. DJO HAS PUSHED JX ALL GAME LONG HOW CAN THEY BE SCUMTEAM?!!? Anyone that's not Eywa. Eywa / Kush scumteam. Kush has done nothing this game besides push for the lynch of Djo and hard defend Eywa. This fakeclaim bullshit shouldn't instantly make him town. Both Eywa and Kush fit the profile of not wanting to lynch DYH. Kush hard defends Eywa, and attacks Djo for acting the SAME exact way he was during the lynch. Kush never pushes Eywa despite him doing the exact same "scummy things" as JieXian. I can't emphasize how badly I think they are scumteam. Eywa / JX makes sense, so does Kush / Eywa. Gotta lynch me a Eywa today. I can't put together any scumteam that excludes Eywa. My vote stays. I'll go Kush if possible, but Eywa is friggen 100% scum. ##Unvote: ##Vote: Eywa EYWA + KUSH SCUMTEAM DIE DIE DIE Ask me anything about this scumteam right here. I've got more ammo in the chamber for any questions. Kill them. Look how excited he is. "THIS IS THE SCUM TEAM GG", "DIE DIE DIE". He's excited to play mafia, more evident by the fact that he posts nonstop. He makes the infrequent long post like the one above calling out his reads. He helps and contributes, and most importantly he speaks exactly what is on his mind. He was never afraid to post before, yet this game he is. Mr. Cheesecake is mafia. I will sheep this case as it is a completely accurate assessment of CC's play this game and his play in other games I have played with him and obs'd. Foolish I will ask you a question though, what made you want to lynch Marv day 1? Was it a town read on BC or an honest scum read on Marv? | ||
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yamato77
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Palmar seems content to have his own opinion ignored for the rest of the game. Is he defeated like I feel because all of his reads were wrong or is he just playing it off as an excuse to do nothing? I'm more likely to believe the former. Wrong=/=scum. People I would lynch tomorrow CC- foolishness' case is indicative of my own feelings about CC this game and is an accurate assessment of his meta. I have played two complete games with CC and this game is different in a way that can only be described as scummy. MZ - both Marv and BC (both of which are experienced town players) had a strong scum read on this guy. I don't think he's done anything meaningful this game and I doubt he will. Hopeless - I had a scummy feeling early day 1 and I should have held on to it. I will take a more prolonged look at his filter later to get a better read Debears - this game he is completely devoid of his classic townie aggression and hasn't scumhunted AT ALL. This dude is scum. | ||
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The next time I get included in a scum read list with zero justification I am lynching that person. | ||
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I didn't read the quote hah. Never mind | ||
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On January 08 2013 06:39 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Debears I think all your hatred of Vivax is reactionary To expand upon this, the reason I wanted to lynch him in YANMM where he flipped SK was because he was playing a very OMGUSy game. This, again, does not look like town debears. | ||
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On January 08 2013 06:44 debears wrote: Yamato, you still do not know my meta at all. Please stop acting like you do. Do you want me to point out all the times I've OMGUS'd in my town games? Last game you played like this you flipped SK bro. Lynch the scum, don't OMGUS people who are townies. Neither Vivax or LM looks scummy to me. | ||
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Both of them are active and invested in figuring the game out. The fact that they land upon you as a scum read just as I do is not surprising debears. | ||
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On January 08 2013 07:46 debears wrote: He immediately agreed the case was good. did not point out any flaws. Now, he's like "oh, parts were bad but it's still a good case." that is not town mindset. It shows he was not willing to even look up the quality of the case. Now that I've pointed out how shitty the case is, he says it has bad parts with it being good, despite the lengthy write up i made on it. Laser is scum I doubt that. | ||
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On January 09 2013 09:49 Promethelax wrote: + Show Spoiler [rant] + well okay, you are wrong but you can choose to believe that. I'm honestly pretty pissed at this game. As I was saying to clarity (I think) earlier everyone not playing and just fucking off is the exact opposite of fun for me. I agreed to replace in to this game because I hate games that are ruined for the players because of modkills/people giving not shits etc. I had the misfortune to replace into a situation where I get to be one of those players whose game is ruined. Now not only am I giving up what little free time I have right now for this game the game is also hardly worth playing because so many players are doing nothing but shoving their heads as deeply into their assholes as possible. Multiple people are asking to be lynched. I don't understand how you can be enjoying this game when there are people doing that. I honestly can't. As Supersoft was saying I play this game for fun as a hobby. But this game (through no fault of Kurumi's) is not fun. Too many people are not trying and I have to try to distinguish between scum and terrible players who just get bored after three seconds and decide to stop playing. I don't have the time to try to sort through the filters of thirty guys who are not playing the game. If this was a mini with people playing I'd be doing my level best but at this point my level best is not rage-quitting. I'm sorry that I am adding to the problem in this game, maybe I should have let Tunkeg been modkilled and not joined when I didn't have the time I need to devote to a big game but I thought I would be doing something I love to do instead of suffering through pages of tripe created by people too fucking stupid to count to two. I am genuinely and totally livid at the players in this game. It is pretty clear to me that after this and MTG II (which I am really looking forward to) I will be taking a break to avoid some of the players in this game and my last one. I can't deal with this level of fucking awful from people who know better. Anyways, sorry for the rant Thrawn and anyone else who bothered to read it. I think both CC and Dibbers are scum. I think CC is scum because of his clear give no fucks attitude that doesn't even reflect anger at this game full of terrible play, as scum I'd be basking too. I think Dibbers is scum because his shitty scum play is identical to YAN where he was SK. He is a much better town player than what he is being right now and based on recent performance I'd say he went to the Sandroba School for Retardedly Bad Scum Players. If there weren't so many shitty players here I'd put Palmar up for lynch for going after 1. marv 2. BC 3. WBG d1 when all three have flipped town. As Palmar says day one is his day (he has told me this out of game before now too so I believe it) he should have managed to pursue at least one scum but he failed not once but thrice. That isn't what I have come to expect from town Palmar and it should set alarm bells ringing in your head but since we have so many players outright claiming scum in the thread (Palmar, Dibbers, VE, etc) I can't just lynch on that. So I have to lynch the guys who look scummier than a day one Palmar who tunneled three different vet townies. SCUMMIER THAN A PALMAR WHO TUNNELED THREE TOWNIES ON DAY ONE! Can you even comprehend how stupid that sentence should be. Prom is officially my mouth piece in the thread. I will lynch whoever he wants to, because he's pointed out the same things I have. ##Vote Debears If anyone has questions for me I will answer them. | ||
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On January 09 2013 10:31 Promethelax wrote: That isn't a town tell with VE. Like myself he prefers being scum (or so I'm told) and he plays active and involved as either alignment. You prefer being scum? The fuck? | ||
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On January 09 2013 10:36 iamperfection wrote: go read his first game he looks more town in that game then when he actually is town I read one of his scum games and it looks a lot like his play this game, IMO. He whines about town A LOT as scum. Like, a lot. But his reads agree with mine so I'm willing to lynch one. | ||
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On January 09 2013 10:42 iamperfection wrote: well if you think he is scum go for it but i don't think you should be sheeping him if you do.... i am not qualified to read prom because i just always think he is scum in every game i have played with him so i abstain from commenting on him but ill comment on anything else. I'm not sheeping him. I had suspicion on both those players before he did, bro. | ||
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On January 09 2013 11:17 Promethelax wrote: weee, I'm blates town you guys. Don't really care what Kush thinks since he is dumb as fuck and has no idea how to read anyone but I thought better of you Thrawn. I wish Keir was still in this game, at least he knows and understands my meta. Your meta cases are bad. You are bad. Stop being bad. Prom what about this: I don't think you give a shit about figuring this game out at all. Your scum reads are lazy. I am allowed to be lazy because I'm town but you're nowhere near as townie as me and you're being lazy which means you're scum. | ||
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On January 09 2013 11:30 Promethelax wrote: Hi, I like being scum more than being town. I have never played a lazy game of mafia in my life. You are trying to tunnel me and call me scum after sheeping me and saying you would sheep me and I still have a town read on you because you are actually this terrible. Do you understand why I might be being lazy? There are a huge number of players in this game who are doing either nothing or nothing with any intelligent thought in it. I have two pretty clear scum reads. I plan on getting them lynched. I don't particularly care if you think I am scum so long as you'll vote for scum with me. See I agree with all of this because that's how I feel at the moment but that doesn't make you town necessarily. The difference is, no one is trying to get me lynched. They are trying to get you lynched though which means you should be trying harder than me right now to find scum. | ||
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What's funny? | ||
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Please do explain. I'm not pushing his lynch I just want to interact with him a bit to see what he thinks. | ||
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On January 09 2013 12:08 iamperfection wrote: you said prom should have to try harder than you and thats bs. I mainly just want to see him react to me calling him scum and compare that to YANMM. | ||
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On January 09 2013 12:13 thrawn2112 wrote: what's the point of that if you're telling him that's what you're doing... what are your reads/comparisons to yanmm so far? He's already given me his reaction, the play is done. Again, the reaction is different. His play seems less... I don't know, less curious, I suppose. He's taking hard stances in this game where he didn't as town in YANMM. Give me more time and I'll make a better comparison. | ||
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At least when he was SK he put up a fight but he isn't even trying right now. Scumbears. | ||
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On January 09 2013 15:00 kushm4sta wrote: yes i'm aware. I still don't know what that is. It looks really weird. Like I said I didn't read your case. It was too long. I dont read megacases sorry. But I read his filter and I think it's possible his behavior can be explained by just not giving a shit. Not likely but possible. But it is kind of similar to the CC lynch in that way. I think prome is a surer thing. Not giving a shit is claiming scum. Especially for deebs. | ||
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On January 09 2013 15:05 kushm4sta wrote: i dont think you can make a statement like that for such a new player. I played 2 games with him as scum and he gave a shit both times. (the first time was his first game; the second time he gave a shit for the first day then stopped giving a shit, but pretended like he still gave a shit) I read Hero Mini where he was town and the differences in his filter from that game to this one are striking. | ||
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On January 09 2013 15:19 thrawn2112 wrote: I disagree: from hero. (sorry debears) I really think his ego is big enough for him to be acting this way as town This game reads a lot more like his SK game in YANMM where he was OMGUSing all over the place and generally being useless town. Has he been useful to you, thrawn? | ||
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On January 09 2013 15:28 thrawn2112 wrote: debears? yes? it seems like i'm the only one who feels this way. both of us had similar thoughts about djo earlier but nobody really commented on either of our cases, which makes me wanna lynch djo and not lynch debears even more and even if you were to match this game with his sk meta.... what does that mean? how does it make him scummy? Debears really hasn't seemed all that useful to me IMO. His one case that wasn't OMGUS was on Tunkeg, and while it was true of Tunkeg's play, he didn't show the mafia motivation and Tunkeg did not read scum to me. He did a lot of pointless posting and then he OMGUS both Vivax and Lazer for their suspicion of him. Since then he's done basically nothing after I pointed this out. I'm not sure I see the town in that filter at all. | ||
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On January 09 2013 16:00 thrawn2112 wrote: meh... "hasn't seemed all that useful" compared to who in this game? yamato what are your thoughts about lynching djo/prom today? assuming you cant lynch debears. and where do you stand on both foolish and cc? would you lynch them and if you had to pick one which would it be? I would lynch Prom but I have to look at him some more. I would lynch CC, maybe Foolish but not likely. I would much rather see debears scum hunt effectively today. | ||
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On January 09 2013 16:12 VisceraEyes wrote: Can anyone succinctly describe the case on Djo? Froggynoddy still MIA. HiroPro still MIA. Clarity MIA. Fun fact: Mr.Cheesecake has posted more than all three of these players this cycle. Foolishness I want dead. DEAD do you hear me? I don't care what you have to do! Bring me his head! I would have words with Palmar. Bring him to me - alive. Djo is blendy and quiet, doesn't take leadership in a game full of vets and doesn't look like town djo. Basically. | ||
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On January 09 2013 16:18 VisceraEyes wrote: He's not blendy though, he's sticking out like a sore thumb. He's open with his thoughts and looks EXACTLY how I'd expect him to look as town. Where'd you come up with this stuff? He's one of the only people I trust right now... You asked for a summary of the case. I never said I agree with it. I think it's dead wrong. Deebs looks scummy to me for it IMO. | ||
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I'm not hunting for some kind of answer, I want an honest assessment if my play. | ||
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Does anyone? I will read it, | ||
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I'm "one of his suspects". I was in Hus last scum game, Parallel, too. He's not that bad to forget my meta in one game. Also, whining about new players. You guys are pathetic. | ||
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On January 09 2013 17:56 kushm4sta wrote: makes no sense. What about your meta makes you town this game? he didn't even really say why he thought you were scummy... so how can you think him thinking that makes him scum when you don't even know why I'm town in both games. It's not hard to see the similarities. Foolishness is not a bad player. The fact that he gives no reasoning is another point against him. I'm just a name he's putting out there to agree with MZ on. If he's actually getting replaced we'll see what the new guy does. | ||
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Would a town player martyr? Debears explain to me why this is similar to your town games and not the SK game we just finished. | ||
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Give me an assessment of your town play that you think you're fitting right now. | ||
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Lazy? Stupid? You do realize that you're actually hurting your own chances here. If you think I don't know your meta well enough to identify town debears, then prove me wrong. | ||
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On January 10 2013 17:29 VisceraEyes wrote: It's no longer about lazy. He admitted to coming in and saying he still wanted me and Hopeless to die in spite of not even LOOKING at the thread in however long. That is clearly anti-town and deserves rope. Not all of these players who aren't even reading the thread and haven't scumhunted in days are scum VE. What else in his posting is scummy? | ||
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There was no good reason to kill Toad. Literally all scum has to do this game is not get mod killed because town can't scumhunt for the life of them. | ||
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On January 11 2013 09:57 debears wrote: Or maybe scum are controlling the thread. Paranoia Bum bum bum To paraphrase your own words to me from your time as a coach: "If you think the scum are the ones in controlling the thread something's gone horribly wrong." Debears why aren't you town when I play with you? | ||
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I partially blame myself for this problem, because I split my attention with this and a mini and ended up spending a lot of energy trying to win the mini instead of this game. Zzz. | ||
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What killed me is that I rolled mafia for the first time ever and almost got caught, so I made a huge amount of posts and stuff up to save myself, and it worked initially. But then I was forced to continue doing so when I did have time so I didn't straight up lose, but it happened anyway. It takes a lot of work to play correctly as mafia IMO. More so than town in my experience. | ||
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You did a good job this game by choosing to be inactive and useless like most of town. It's a low-effort way for town to ignore you among the heap of players who weren't even posting. When you did post, it was pointless posting, which if I had paid more attention I might have named you scum for but there was almost no way to push a lynch in this environment. In the future when I roll scum I'm just going to troll. Apparently no one cares. | ||
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01-10-2013 07:53 PM ET (US) if we were to punish for bad play there would literally be no players left on the forum. The state of the game over the past 3 months has been so awful that it's not at all surprising that this happened. There hasn't been a normal game of this size for a while now, and it's been pretty evident through the most recent normal games that the level of play has been consistently degrading. The unfortunate fact is that many of these players (i.e. yamato) are somehow convinced that they are good enough to not have to listen to anyone or do anything beyond what they are doing already. They are convinced that the reason they lose is not because of THEIR mistakes but rather the mistakes of everyone else. The blame for this town loss rests on all of town. Sure, you might shift it proportionally more toward those who were disruptive or loud or spammed, or wanted to ragequit, but those who went inactive, made bad cases, didn't read, masoned scum, convinced other people they were good (but in reality are just as bad) and deluded themselves are just as much at fault. When literally every player in the game voted a townie on day 1 you cannot argue that people deserve bans for playing badly or "against your wincondition". Everyone did that. ------ I read this post and I feel I need to respond to it. When I play in a game of mafia, there is literally no point in saying publicly that I think I'm always wrong. I do think I am wrong almost all of the time, however. But saying so to the thread does nothing but make them think I don't want them to care about what I say, which is both anti-town and completely ignorant. So instead I act like I'm right. Because what the hell, maybe ONE TIME I might be right and I'll push a good lynch, a la YANMM where I pushed the Wiggles lynch after some sheeping of Palmar. In that game it worked. Most times it doesn't mostly because I am bad, people know I'm bad, so no one listens to me. I don't want to be responsible for ruining games for veteran players who are far better than me at this game. I want to learn it, and I think after maybe 20 games or so I might actually be useful, but in the mean time I feel like I'm discouraged in signing up to games precisely because I am bad, and am a liability to whichever team I roll. My play this game was not very good, but I think most people who have played with me before knew I was town. Yes, I had wrong reads the entire game. Yes, I posted far too much. Yes, I indeed contributed to the factors that led to town's ineffectiveness, and town's overall inability to keep up with the game. I know all of this. Perhaps this is not evident from my play, but to myself I am constantly critical. So I'm sorry, WBG, Meapak, BC, Marv. I'm bad. I played bad and I'm not entirely sure how to play better. Perhaps it's better if I don't play. | ||
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Look at who I sheeped this game on day 1. Palmar, who had led me to scum day 1 the previous game, and before that Marv, a player who I respect greatly as town. When I did it, I had a solid town read on each of them. As I mentioned in my vote post for Marv, I felt I had some decent logic as to why Scum Marv would be pushing town Palmar day 1. I didn't ever post the full case, as by the time I had conceived the entire thing Marv has already killed himself, but I will give my rundown here, as I still have the bullets in my notes. 1. Palmar is an easy target for scum to place their vote in day 1, by his and other's admission. People have the opinion of him that he acts dumb all the time day 1 as either alignment, so scum Marv could certainly have seen and taken this opportunity. 2. Palmar's case was fairly convincing to me at the time. I had a decent town read on Palmar because of the reasons I defended him early in day 1 for, and I believed that if he was town, these were his real opinions and he was good enough at the game to have the right ones. Here I trusted his judgment over my own, because my feeling before that point was that Marv was probably town due to his activity and transparency. 3. Marv's lynch targets to me were incredibly lazy and easy choices at the time. Before any flips in the game, I did not want to lynch BC or MZ at all. I posted that I thought BC was scummy for his vote on Palmar because at the time it didn't make much sense to me. I had no knowledge of BC's tendencies as town, nor his thoughts on how town should play. Regardless, I had a town read on him from our interaction in the thread and did not think Marv, a player I respected, would get a scum read from that information. It felt contrived. 4. After Palmar posted his case on Marv, Marv seemed to jump on any opportunity to lynch another player. He was "suspicious" of every other player someone thought could be lynchable, something I found to be highly scummy in that he seemed more focused on his own survival than finding scum at that point. I should have seen that town Marv doesn't want to be mislynched because he believes himself to be an asset to town, something I saw in BC's posting before he got lynched. That wax my confirmation bias kicking in. 5. Marv's claim timing annoyed me, as I pointed out in the thread. I have been taught to lynch one scum at a time, and in this game I indeed focused on the one player I found scummiest at the time. So if I were to believe him town, I had no real other options for an informed lynch decision. It wasn't his fault necessarily, it was mine, but at the time I felt that it was more likely a scum claim than a town one. 6. The content of Marv's claim also irked me. The fact that he claimed slow cop meant that we would have to wait a considerable amount of time before getting any results from him to judge his claim. Again, this was not his fault, but slow cop is inherently safe to claim as scum D1 because it gives you an entire cycle to live before you get your "results", and all scum want to do is delay their own death. 7. BC made the point that anyone defending themselves because of their usefulness to town should be lynched based on their play, not on their meta. Therefor, when Marv made that appeal, I immediately felt him more scummy for it because he openly admitted he hadn't been productive day 1. What I should have realized here was that he doesn't always have good day 1's, and by his own admittance can be useless until later on. However I did not have this information coming in and trusted Palmar's judgment on the matter, which proved to be an error. This is by no means solid proof that Marv was scum, but it included my thoughts about the game after I realized BC wasn't scum and thus could be trusted. By the time I could post it however, Marv had already announced his quitting and I had felt the game in serious decline so I neglected the effort to justify my actions further. | ||
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On January 13 2013 05:18 debears wrote: Yamato, there is one thing I want you to do from now on. Don't use meta for a while. I myself am not gonna use it until its clear that I understand it better Itll force you to become better at pure in game reads and keep you from mistakenly thinking a town player is scum just because they are playing differently Fair enough, debears. Fair enough. | ||
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