Aperture Mafia 2: Portal Edition

On September 30 2012 07:22 GreYMisT wrote:
Game start delayed by 1 hour. Sorry for the delay

On September 30 2012 10:44 austinmcc wrote:

Because there's no need to say "mafia/2 rounded up" if there are only 2 mafia. It'd always be 1 KP.

On September 30 2012 11:21 Keirathi wrote:
So lets get this game really started:

Mattchew

I'm sure he has some town games somewhere in his filter, but every game I've seen him play in recent memory he's been scum (I Can't Believe Its Not Themed, DBZ, LVII). So what has he done this game?


Claimed town.

Made sure we knew that he was town again.

Started some pointless setup talk that hasn't actually generated useful discussion. I don't see any way that speculating on scum team/third party numbers is working towards finding scum. It's just bullshit to fill up the thread, and everyone regardless of alignment can reasonably comment on it.

So yea, I'm thinking Mattchew rolled scum yet again.

##Vote: Mattchew

On September 30 2012 13:01 Keirathi wrote:
Of course my case is bad. I certainly don't think you are scum for something so...inconsequential. But this thread needed to move past setup speculation and into people giving real, meaningful opinions and thoughts that they can be held accountable for. Although, I was hoping that other people would weigh in on it before you responded

##Unovte

For completeness sake, though, I did go back through all of your games up to Movie Star, and the only pattern was that you seem to claim town if you get into the thread early, and otherwise say you are catching up and reading the thread in your first post

On October 01 2012 05:38 JingleHell wrote:


Oh, so you acknowledge that your "case" against me would work similarly against yourself? Good, I'll just ignore you. If it was somehow ambiguous, I found Draz suspicious in that he seemed to have just assumed a specific subset of non-town for Keirathi.

Generally, if I see something as anti-town, I don't go saying "Oh, he must be third party". Why? Because scum is anti-town. Making a faction based guess, especially in a closed setup, beyond saying "X is acting anti-town" sounds like you're privy to some knowledge about factions, and it's probably a little early for that.

On October 01 2012 05:43 iamperfection wrote:

We are seriously going to allow this crap? Ive played about 6 games of tl mafia and this is the biggest pile of crap ive seen yet.

## Vote ghost_403

On October 01 2012 23:45 Drazerk wrote:
If we don't lynch S+B my next target would probably be JH because I just hate the wounded survivor act but its not really telling of alignment.

On October 02 2012 01:18 Mementoss wrote:


thoughts on Nisani and Jinglehell?

On October 02 2012 01:43 austinmcc wrote:

Oh noes, I forgot.

##Vote: iamperfection

Sorry about that.

##Unvote

Why am I voting iamperfection over others? He, ghost, and nisani all seem in the same boat where they just dropped votes on someone for weak reasoning and left. Between them, we can't have the whole time, but I like finding a mafia in there.

iamperfection doesn't seem to care about anything other than ghost's vote

ghost doesn't seem to care about anything other than keirathi's early game effort and...HiroPro? While I agree that the hiro = town comment doesn't feel scummy, how is ghost as a scum player? Half of his posts are just questions to HiroPro and then ducking out. I don't see a scum agenda behind what he asked and what hero answered, it was just "what is happening/what are your reads," but I dislike that he only engages a single person in the thread.
Actually hadn't noticed the odd amount of hiro-only posts considering the size of his filter.

nisani hasn't done anything since Drazerk reacted to Keirathi's initial unvote. Actually...nisani reads the towniest of the three to me?
doesn't flip out when someone is looking at him. Gives some thoughts on other players, although they're tremendously small.

Seriously. That post, that tiny answer, is basically the towniest thing I find in any of those three filters. Why am I lynching iamperfection over the other two? I don't give ghost as many town points as you do for his hiro post, and I find his hiro fascination odd.

---

I'm more concerned with JH. I think you were right in noting that he de-lurked right after getting called out. But where you say he's explaining this thought process thoroughly, I disagree. I'm not sure I get the change between PTP3 and here, maybe I didn't read the early days of PTP3 close enough to see this, but I remember JH in PTP3 being standoffish and unwilling to do anything but push single players. Being passive certainly provides an alternative playstyle to that, but it's not actually...doing anything. It doesn't seem to actually be BETTER or anything than PTP3 JH, and I'd expect someone who was unhappy with a bad performance to want to follow it up with a good performance, which this isn't. This is just excuses for NO performance.

On October 02 2012 01:43 Keirathi wrote:

I already did.



His whole reasoning for voting me was because I "looked through filters. and townies don't put in that much effort early in day 1". Which is such bullshit reasoning, that I can't even fathom a motivation for making it outside of VI.

On October 02 2012 02:20 Drazerk wrote:
Does anyone think the JH lynch feels off to anyone else?

I can't put my finger on it...

it just feels wrong

On October 02 2012 02:12 Keirathi wrote:

EBWOP: I guess he could have meant that he thought I was faking the effort and just making bullshit up. But that's demonstrably not the case.

On October 02 2012 07:47 Keirathi wrote:
So lets get down to the current candidates:

iamperfection
I've said it many times. His demeanor is entirely different than his scum demeanor, and almost exactly the same as his townie demeanor. Yes, its a meta read, but one I'm comfortable not voting today.

His lurking I don't find particularly scummy either, because he has 3 games going at the same time and is posting about the same amount in all of them.

Drazerk
Null, maybe leaning slightly town, because of his interactions with me earlier in the game. He had ample opportunity to push me if he was scum, but instead carried on a conversation explaining his thought process. I don't like his interactions with S&B, because they feel full of confirmation bias from a past dispute, which has pulled him back down closer to null.

And obviously I'm not going to be voting for myself. I've tried to be open with my thought processes and stayed active when it would have been much easier to lurk along with most of the town. I just flat-out don't have anyone that I have a strong enough scumread and enough supporting evidence of the read to push a lynch on. If you want to lynch me for being indecisive, then there's not really much I can do about that. I've been trying to engage people and gather their reactions and give opinions, but I can't magically make up a case.

So honestly I think there's a good chance that the top 3 candidates are all town and scum is having a hay-day.

On October 03 2012 02:29 Drazerk wrote:
gonzaw I am the king of bussing if anything S+B flipping scum would make me look worse

On October 03 2012 02:44 Drazerk wrote:
I tried to take the mafia KP and shoot scum with it...

On October 03 2012 07:10 JingleHell wrote:


OOOH Your first post directed at me was calling me scummy, claiming that missing part of the first half of D1 was active lurking!

LYNCH LYNCH LYNCH!!

On October 03 2012 08:04 HiroPro wrote:
hm. nisani and s&b, what are your biggest scum reads?

austin, I'd like to see a response to Mementoss's post on you.

On October 03 2012 08:07 HiroPro wrote:
why not?

On October 03 2012 08:20 JingleHell wrote:


Mattchew, why not Gonzaw?

As Memen said, austin DID explain a lot of those things, he just thought they were justification. I can't be sure one way or the other with austin, he's given alternately scummy and towny vibes to me. When I get back from TKD, I'll try and take a better look through. Got to leave soonish, and there's a bit to wade through, and context will probably matter.

On October 03 2012 03:11 strongandbig wrote:
Sorry I've been less than up to my standards. Been busy, whatever. /shrugs.
A few thoughts:
1. Because the vote was so close and there were so few ppl on iamperfection, it would not have looked bad for scum to be somewhere else and any scum on iamperfection could relatively easily have switched to avert his lynch. If there was scum on him it was sub-optimal play. Scum do stupid things; I got hammered by my teammates once while I was off playing dota. But in the balance I propose looking away from the iamperfection voters for now.
2. Drazerk's whole play is based around the premise "I refuse to try and look or be townie, so fuck you for trying to analyze me." We should kill him, it's the only sensible town response to that play. Also I think he's scum because he jumps around on votes without a care in the world, and because of that circular reasoning thing from before. Still, I'm not as sure about him as I have been in the past.
3. Getting medium bad vibes from jingle, but I can't put my finger on why.
4. Nisani looks pretty useless - his reasoning for voting Drazerk is pretty dumb IMO and it seems like he's doing some stupidly weak pressure. Like the best he came up with was "too many null reads".
5. I can't remember the last time Austin was scum, any help?
Laters

On October 05 2012 06:48 Keirathi wrote:
Also, its fucking bullshit that I am being forced to claim today. Goddamnit I'm annoyed.

On October 05 2012 07:53 Keirathi wrote:

Remind me never to sign up for a game you're in again. Thanks!

On October 06 2012 06:08 strongandbig wrote:
So I am going to head home, idk whether I'll be there before deadline.

In case I die here's what I'm thinking.

Ghost is looking scummy. His filter is pretty noncommital, and I just don't get town vibes over it. He was very inactive during the day1 godfather lynch which fits an expected scum profile since there was not even an attempt to create an alternative bandwagon.

Kill drazerk. kill it with fire.

The more I think about it, the more I think I might be wrong to be giving Mattchew the benefit of the doubt for his vote on iamperfection. It's just kind of the thing he would do. However, I'm not getting a very strong read one way or the other out of his filter. Just a comment to be wary.

I think keirathi is town - I actually had a town read on him in my spreadsheet before he claimed, because of the stuff he said about plurality lynch and splitting votes.

I think austin is town. I can't really say why. His posts just feel townie.

I think that everyone who voted for iamperfection is town except maybe mattchew (see above).

That leaves gonzaw, jinglehell, drazerk and ghost.

jinglehell and gonzaw are hard to make much out of. I think it's weird that jingle is being so fucking aggro towards gonzaw. OTOH I haven't been getting the same scummy vibes out of Gonzaw that I usually do; but he's a pretty good scum player capable of multiple styles. So be wary of those two.

Still, I think town kills should be prioritized:
- Drazerk
- Ghost
- Jingle
- Gonzaw

Lynch those dudes and I think we win.

On October 06 2012 07:26 Drazerk wrote:
Hiro I screw with my meta on purpose don't bring in old games here.

On October 06 2012 07:32 Drazerk wrote:

No but it helps me out a lot which then in turn helps townies

On October 06 2012 07:37 Drazerk wrote:

Because if you leave me alone I'll find scum.

On October 06 2012 08:23 Drazerk wrote:
Seriously look at my day 2 actions if you can see a scum or third party doing that then I don't know what to think

On October 06 2012 08:35 gonzaw wrote:


You and Crossfire initiated some interactions as soon as the game started, and he sheeped you with the iamperfection vote even though if you were both black you would have thought iamp was town (and one "noob" scum sheeping another scum on D1 would be risky as hell and would most likely not happen?) and defended you always as "super townie"?

If it's that...hmm, I'm not sure, seems possible but I didn't think much about it. Damn there's a lot to think.

Hmm, also something interesting to note is:
-Both scum teams may have not known there was another scum team initially
-Black Scum knew there was another scum team as soon as D1 ended.

On October 06 2012 08:46 Drazerk wrote:
Didn't we have the king of busing arguement in this very thread Mattchew...

On October 09 2012 03:33 gonzaw wrote:


Can we kill you Mattchew?

On October 09 2012 10:50 austinmcc wrote:

Wat.

On October 09 2012 10:56 austinmcc wrote:

I don't know if you just covered up a slip or made yourself seem townie.

We've never seen more than 1 NK. Current assumption is that black has no factional KP.

On October 09 2012 11:17 HiroPro wrote:
why am i scum matt

On October 09 2012 12:39 gonzaw wrote:
Yo Matt, thoughts about my claim? What about me being a murderous homicidal traitor-wannabe?

On October 10 2012 02:27 JingleHell wrote:


I'm only bulletproof IF the person below me is alive to visit. Also, I assume I can be tracked there since I'm visiting them, which has a nasty ability to backfire. As to that being good for black scum, I can't even imagine my role being balanced that way, since the scum team's wincons seem to require working at cross purposes, putting red in a position where they can only kill a rival by forcing a lynch seems risky, especially with a role that would reveal that they had no other choice. Anyone who pushed it would promptly be under scrutiny.

That would be an "I win" button for black.

Also, if we have a vigi with bullets, confirming me tonight wouldn't be so bad.

On October 10 2012 02:50 JingleHell wrote:


It would confirm the role. The role would be broken on scum. You have something against confirmed townies who are hard to NK?

On October 12 2012 10:24 Keirathi wrote:

Because you wanted to lynch S&B and I couldn't let that happen. Not enough people online at the time to switch and keep S&B alive.

So basically your fault <3

On October 12 2012 10:27 JingleHell wrote:


See, we SHOULD have lynched gonzaw, then we could have kept out medic!

On October 12 2012 10:29 Keirathi wrote:

You voted no-lynch AFTER you already forced me to claim. And, knowing my own Role PM left no room for S&B to be scum, if I unvoted S&B would have died. There just weren't enough people to switch off of both S&B *AND* Nisani.

On October 12 2012 11:26 GreYMisT wrote:


I see what you mean, you cant buss yourself so it wouldn't matter in this particular case. But announcing in the thread you were not going to use your power didn't help much.

On October 01 2012 05:48 Mattchew wrote:

insta-delurk.

actively lurking is cool

##vote: JingleHell

On October 10 2012 01:56 Mattchew wrote:
JH's role sounds pretty good for a black scum team with no KP im just saying

On October 12 2012 13:43 JingleHell wrote:


If you were convinced on me being scum, why did you not listen to my "minimum of 3 RS, 2 BS" argument?

On October 12 2012 14:11 GreYMisT wrote:


One thing to think about is 2 more people is 2 more roles that do things to the night actions

On October 12 2012 14:14 HiroPro wrote:
I don't think this setup is really imbalanced (if you consider each side having 1/3 chance to win fair). Maybe black scum could have been a little stronger.

But it is very variable. Like a lot depends on the interaction of night actions.

On October 12 2012 21:49 marvellosity wrote:
Matt, if you put half the effort in in-game as post-game

On October 12 2012 21:55 marvellosity wrote:


But the point is you have to push your point across. There's no use being right if you're not pushing WHY you're right and explaining it and persuading people. Being right is only half the battle.

I mean, you caught iamp, so fair dinkum on that one. But you could've done more.