|
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On October 19 2012 02:44 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 19:23 marvellosity wrote:
slOosh - not sure why you're even asking. Why would you need to fuck with your town meta to play scum? It makes no sense. You were just *so* goddamn far off your town meta, and actually you're a good enough / clever enough dude for this not to be the case. Post more, push more cases, etc. - it's very simple...
No, I'm asking what does that look like? Am I striving to play like town that is having a really bad game (all wrong reads etc.)? Am I expecting to get caught in the early - midgame and center my play around that? Like for this quote by Incognito from general mafia guide Show nested quote +On January 09 2012 15:49 Incognito wrote:
As mafia, you may often see that townies who are generally accepted as “pro-town” early in the game can hold a disproportional influence over the town. You might think to yourself, “We need to prevent that from happening, or at least, become that person”. The first part of that statement is correct; the second is not.
Although the temptation of appearing to be the most “pro-town” player may be great, you often cannot hold this status for long enough as mafia for it to truly benefit you. Town players who gain the “pro-town” status usually are able to hold onto it because their motives are consistent throughout the game. However, as a mafia, the longer the game goes, the harder it will be to keep your story straight, and the easier it will be for you to lose your status.
That's basically all my town games (majority of games I'm shot D1) - if it is my meta to always become that person, and it's disadvantageous to become that person as mafia, what do I do?
It's disadvantageous to become that person as mafia if you cannot keep your story straight. In LV I was considered townie town town, and I managed to maintain that facade for 8 (!) cycles for the win.
Ugh, it's kinda hard to explain for you, because that was also before I acquired your knack of being NKed early, but this also means I should be able to help you here :x Like, I try to emulate my town play as much as I can, but I just make tiny little adjustments; like I might not pursue a scumread who is my team-mate quite as aggressively as I might otherwise, or perhaps I'll bring up a candidate at just a slightly different time from when I normally might to try to achieve something in-thread. Or perhaps there's a body of evidence on someone and you take one conclusion that looks logical, even though as town you may have reached another, also logical conclusion. Things like that that can't really be caught externally (i.e. by town) but are very subtly pushing your agenda.
|
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On October 19 2012 05:14 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 03:10 marvellosity wrote:On October 19 2012 02:44 slOosh wrote:On October 18 2012 19:23 marvellosity wrote:
slOosh - not sure why you're even asking. Why would you need to fuck with your town meta to play scum? It makes no sense. You were just *so* goddamn far off your town meta, and actually you're a good enough / clever enough dude for this not to be the case. Post more, push more cases, etc. - it's very simple...
No, I'm asking what does that look like? Am I striving to play like town that is having a really bad game (all wrong reads etc.)? Am I expecting to get caught in the early - midgame and center my play around that? Like for this quote by Incognito from general mafia guide On January 09 2012 15:49 Incognito wrote:
As mafia, you may often see that townies who are generally accepted as “pro-town” early in the game can hold a disproportional influence over the town. You might think to yourself, “We need to prevent that from happening, or at least, become that person”. The first part of that statement is correct; the second is not.
Although the temptation of appearing to be the most “pro-town” player may be great, you often cannot hold this status for long enough as mafia for it to truly benefit you. Town players who gain the “pro-town” status usually are able to hold onto it because their motives are consistent throughout the game. However, as a mafia, the longer the game goes, the harder it will be to keep your story straight, and the easier it will be for you to lose your status.
That's basically all my town games (majority of games I'm shot D1) - if it is my meta to always become that person, and it's disadvantageous to become that person as mafia, what do I do? It's disadvantageous to become that person as mafia if you cannot keep your story straight. In LV I was considered townie town town, and I managed to maintain that facade for 8 (!) cycles for the win. Ugh, it's kinda hard to explain for you, because that was also before I acquired your knack of being NKed early, but this also means I should be able to help you here :x Like, I try to emulate my town play as much as I can, but I just make tiny little adjustments; like I might not pursue a scumread who is my team-mate quite as aggressively as I might otherwise, or perhaps I'll bring up a candidate at just a slightly different time from when I normally might to try to achieve something in-thread. Or perhaps there's a body of evidence on someone and you take one conclusion that looks logical, even though as town you may have reached another, also logical conclusion. Things like that that can't really be caught externally (i.e. by town) but are very subtly pushing your agenda. Yea this is really helpful. I think it might just be a practice thing for me then. What's your view on bussing? Like for Node D1 I felt it was stupid to let him just die, which is in a sense sacrificing credibility for pushing your agenda with more force. As a "vet" or "usually dead by N3 or something is up" player, do you always play to survive to endgame, or do you actively make the most of these scum-agenda purchases to your eventual lynch?
I never intended for Node to die day 1. The wagon achieved more votes than I expected. I took the calculated risk of creating the wagon quickly and hoping it would be objected to by townies so it wouldn't go through (which is indeed what happened) but I was scared because I didn't expect so many votes on Node like that, which is why I was pooping myself a little in scumQT.
With your survive to endgame question: I just don't know at the moment. That's previously how I played, and successfully... but I feel it's getting harder to justify it when it occurs. When this game started I had planned to try a different style - ensure mislynches, and hope I'd done enough damage to town by day 4-5 that when I died the game was already won. Obviously I died much earlier, so meh. Generally speaking, though, towns in general are actually pretty resistant to lynching people because they're still alive - look at how little support a BC lynch garnered, even though he's a total vet and dies Night 1 with extreme regularity as well. So I believe playing the long-game is still quite possible.
|
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On October 19 2012 06:16 talismania wrote:
regarding sloosh's point:
if mafia is always 1/4 the player pool
and
I have a pure town meta
and
I can make an obvious scum meta
then
aren't I not guaranteed town for all my town games, and therefore most likely to win most of the games I play?
This is a thing I struggle with. I don't want to have to play worse as town in order to disguise my scum play. Because playing with as much effort as I give to town as scum simply isn't possible.
none of this makes any logical sense. just because you're town more often doesn't mean you win more often. Basically you're just deficient as a player :/ But players like sandroba, palmar, foolishness have similar deficiencies, so *shrug*
Just because you're clearly town as town, doesn't mean you win...
|
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On October 19 2012 06:29 slOosh wrote:
Do you guys have any tips in regard to staying consistent? I end up checking my filter to see what I said and make sure I align like that, but I don't like that. Is it just practicing in a way to "unsee" scum as scum and town as town?
Not really. I just remember what I said. And it's ok to change your mind on someone if you explain it.
|
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On October 19 2012 06:53 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 05:36 risk.nuke wrote:
Try motivating yourself with. Sucess if I can lead a townie mislynch without making myself look bad in the process.
Bureaucracy Mafia was simply hell to play for scum and can't be compared with normal mafia.
edit: Mafia couldn't push scumreads because they could be our teammates. Vice versa any townie pushing a scumread was 90% town. It speaks for itself that you need to "find motivation" to play scum, while you don't to play town.
tbf, it's true of a lot of people. I don't relish playing scum, I go "ugh" if I receive a scum PM.
|
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On October 19 2012 07:09 risk.nuke wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 06:53 gonzaw wrote:On October 19 2012 05:36 risk.nuke wrote:
Try motivating yourself with. Sucess if I can lead a townie mislynch without making myself look bad in the process.
Bureaucracy Mafia was simply hell to play for scum and can't be compared with normal mafia.
edit: Mafia couldn't push scumreads because they could be our teammates. Vice versa any townie pushing a scumread was 90% town. It speaks for itself that you need to "find motivation" to play scum, while you don't to play town. It's not what I said. IF you feel the need to motivate yourself. Some people love the feeling of tricking and fooling the others, they're not good enough to catch you. Some enjoy hunting mafia. I do both but I agree with marv. It's more fun to be town because nailing a scumshit is <3.
Couldn't have said it better myself ^^
|
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On October 19 2012 09:06 talismania wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 06:23 marvellosity wrote:On October 19 2012 06:16 talismania wrote:
regarding sloosh's point:
if mafia is always 1/4 the player pool
and
I have a pure town meta
and
I can make an obvious scum meta
then
aren't I not guaranteed town for all my town games, and therefore most likely to win most of the games I play?
This is a thing I struggle with. I don't want to have to play worse as town in order to disguise my scum play. Because playing with as much effort as I give to town as scum simply isn't possible. none of this makes any logical sense. just because you're town more often doesn't mean you win more often. Basically you're just deficient as a player :/ But players like sandroba, palmar, foolishness have similar deficiencies, so *shrug* Just because you're clearly town as town, doesn't mean you win... True you don't win just because ppl know you are town. But I have only lost one town game and have lost all but one scum game. Also when town just being right and effective often guarantees a feeling of personal victory even if your team eventually loses. That's not true for scum. I'd also make the point that acting similar both as town and scum is dependent on your style of play. My town style is rooted in genuine enthusiasm and is therefore really hard to fake as scum. People that don't post that much have an easier time disguising themselves but I don't want to be an inactive player. Finally the more like your town self you are as scum the more you are less trusted as town. Marv you know this better than most given that people have an autolynch policy on you if you simply survive late. Just things to think about regarding some design issues inherent with mafia in general.
Sure, but like... in mad men you were suspicious and shot by town vigilante. You've also had suspicions on you in other games. I believe you're creating incorrect causation with how you appear as town and your victory count.
You also know I post a metric shit-tonne (more than you even) and I manage to get close to that as scum...
I can handle people being suspicious of me more than they might otherwise. I haven't been mislynched in like my last 10-15 town games or whatever. Doesn't stop me catching ze scumbags.
|
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On October 19 2012 13:36 talismania wrote:
Also for sure I don't mean to say that me being town causes town to win. But you must agree that as town I'm way more helpful to my team than as scum. And that matters even if just a little bit when deciding the outcome of the game.
Right. But my aim when playing is to be very helpful to my team whichever alignment I play, and I think I'm reasonably successful about it.
You're creating this unnecessary dichotomy... largely, in my opinion, simply because you're lazy.
|
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On October 20 2012 11:08 Shady Sands wrote:
how can I improve?
Read the thread more attentively. You get too caught up in the games sometimes and repeatedly bring up points that have already been explained. Look back at what gave you your scumreads and townreads and try to understand why you were wrong about them, and learn from that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
