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On October 18 2012 14:35 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 14:29 DarthPunk wrote:On October 18 2012 14:27 HiroPro wrote:On October 18 2012 14:23 Risen wrote:
At the end of the day, I just really, really want everyone reading this, for the sake of my future sanity if I'm ever in games with you guys, to remember this lesson.
DON'T LYNCH THE COP OR MEDIC WHO HAS NO COUNTERCLAIM!
Alrighty, I'm done. Gg scum, gg BC. evaluate a claim on its circumstance and the play of the individual. otherwise you end up with situations like prplhz in NMM II riding to victory on an uncontested cop claim. Now the corollary is that no one should ever lynch a blue claim just because "I wouldn't claim like this". Exactly and the circumstances in this situation matched up perfectly with a VE fake claim. Added to the fact he survived 2 nights after he claimed which is incredibly risky scum play. It is not as black and white as Risen is making out to be IMO. No they did not. VE fake claiming to lead a lynch on kush made very little sense. Survival is not a strong indication of guilt. It is just something that should be considered. If people had carefully read VE's play in the beginning of the game and if they had looked at his play around the claim in relation to the way that he has claimed blue in other games, they should have realized that he was probably town. When BC flipped third party, people should have immediately disregarded what he had said before about VE's claim not making sense and instead focused only on BC's last post, which clearly indicated that he considered VE to be town.
Yes. I agree. But the point is that the situation wasn't so clear cut as for it to be unfathomable. If it was. He would never have been mislynched and town probably wins.
That being said, none of this would have happened without a clutch Kush frame. hehe.
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On October 18 2012 14:37 ShiaoPi wrote:Boson and Keir I was with you all the time!!  Really I dont understand how that baddy did not get lynched xD
<3
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On October 18 2012 14:40 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 14:32 Keirathi wrote:On October 18 2012 14:28 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 18 2012 14:19 Keirathi wrote:On October 18 2012 14:17 Z-BosoN wrote:What you talking about, I tried lynching DP with all my might, but no one would listen  EDIT: you = keir  You still voted Matt over him Haha, I'll quote this sad sad post again: On October 14 2012 08:14 Z-BosoN wrote:
DP is my top scumread, I've been trying to push him since forever, but no one seems to find him scummy, so =/ I basically gave up when despite me writing 2 full cases, making extensive posts on him, and being insistent as fuck that he was scum, nobody seemed to find him scummy, not even you (you did so after I gave up, basically). So I just figured I was making a bad read and moved on Honestly it felt like you guys were just yelling back and forth at each other. Neither of you were convincing. I decided DP was scum because of the reasons he was pushing Kush the night after Hapa died, but I was more sure of slOosh. Then during the kush wagon and end of the night, I decided that he was even scummier than slOosh so I started pushing him. Then I brainfucked myself and was terrible. Problem was, I actually engaged in the flame war. So people started reading it as: bleh just two townies fighting each other. But dude, the comment he made regarding "me milking town cred" was in NO WAY townie. Also, kush was obviously acting differently, yet DP didn't comment on that. In the other game, he actually unvoted the flammable scum kush as town, despite kush being scum. This was a very VERY strong tell, because I know his meta, but DP flamed it away pretty nicely. And then he used his own "trying to setup on a mislynch" argument against me, this was about the most WTF thing I had ever heard. But again, people weren't taking me or him seriously and just dismissed it as two townies gnawing against each other and didn't bother reading much into it.
That was so much fun. When Perfection came in and voted for you at the end I lol'd.
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Well. I feel a lot better about winning this game than I did at the end of the last game winning at LYLO because Grush voted himself and blew up BM.
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@VE who was your scum team at the end? Before you checked the obs QT of course.
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On October 18 2012 15:45 VisceraEyes wrote:
slOosh and ZBos with a DP/Shiao kicker if I was wrong about Kush, which as I said, I didn't think was the case.
DP you fucking smashed me - you zeroed in on my weakness (penchant for setup speculation when shit goes wrong, tendency to lose my shit) and nailed me to the wall with it at the exact right moment. I attribute this loss to your craftiness as much as if not more than I blame apathetic, non-reading townies for it. Which is a lot. So good job.
Thanks. <3
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On October 18 2012 16:58 Kreb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 14:53 DarthPunk wrote:Well. I feel a lot better about winning this game than I did at the end of the last game winning at LYLO because Grush voted himself and blew up BM. Haha, I feel the opposite. :p Last game I told you I thought mafia deserved it because mafia was better and town wasnt getting many read right. And I told you you should feel good. This game I dont feel like it was anywhere near as clear that mafia > town. I feel 100% shafted by the framer, thats a part of the game and I dont mind it, but I dont feel mafia won due to their good play. At the end of the game I had Sloosh, you and Shiao down as the most likely team with Sloosh being very clear (risk was so bitter it would require quite a good mafia to play that bitter I-know-best town role so I pinned him down as town towards the end). Yea I know its easy to say afterwards but thats how it was. Overall Im satisfied by my play and by town play compared to last game. This was a "lucky" framing win as opposed to last game imo, where mafia was straight up better.
I don't think That the frame was entirely 'luck'.There was ground work put into the kush frame. Several people were casting suspicion on him to the point where it was a fairly reasonable choice to check him. It is not as much as 1/15 chance to frame someone as it is creating and identifying situations in which a frame would be useful.
Like we were tossing up between a Coag/Kush frame. It turns out coag was checked the night before kush. So it is was less 'luck' than you think.
This set-up was heavily town favoured also. So if anyone should be complaining about set-up and roles it is scum.
we had GF and Framer that messed with a singular cop and a roleblocker.
Town had
Watcher, Watcher, Paramedic, Paramedic, Veteran, Madhatter, Cop
5 investigative roles, 3 night kill stopping roles. and a Conditional Vig
I feel very satisfied with my play this game.
-Edit apart from missing the night kills like a newb 
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On October 18 2012 17:30 risk.nuke wrote:
Paramedics aren't investigative roles.
You what?
-edit-
How are they not investigative roles? If you catch scum you die and are instaconfirmed. if not you medic save and have a confirmed townie....
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On October 18 2012 17:31 Kreb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 17:25 DarthPunk wrote:On October 18 2012 16:58 Kreb wrote:On October 18 2012 14:53 DarthPunk wrote:Well. I feel a lot better about winning this game than I did at the end of the last game winning at LYLO because Grush voted himself and blew up BM. Haha, I feel the opposite. :p Last game I told you I thought mafia deserved it because mafia was better and town wasnt getting many read right. And I told you you should feel good. This game I dont feel like it was anywhere near as clear that mafia > town. I feel 100% shafted by the framer, thats a part of the game and I dont mind it, but I dont feel mafia won due to their good play. At the end of the game I had Sloosh, you and Shiao down as the most likely team with Sloosh being very clear (risk was so bitter it would require quite a good mafia to play that bitter I-know-best town role so I pinned him down as town towards the end). Yea I know its easy to say afterwards but thats how it was. Overall Im satisfied by my play and by town play compared to last game. This was a "lucky" framing win as opposed to last game imo, where mafia was straight up better. I don't think That the frame was entirely 'luck'.There was ground work put into the kush frame. Several people were casting suspicion on him to the point where it was a fairly reasonable choice to check him. It is not as much as 1/15 chance to frame someone as it is creating and identifying situations in which a frame would be useful. Like we were tossing up between a Coag/Kush frame. It turns out coag was checked the night before kush. So it is was less 'luck' than you think. This set-up was heavily town favoured also. So if anyone should be complaining about set-up and roles it is scum. we had GF and Framer that messed with a singular cop and a roleblocker. Town had Watcher, Watcher, Paramedic, Paramedic, Veteran, Madhatter, Cop 5 investigative roles, 3 night kill stopping roles. and a Conditional Vig I feel very satisfied with my play this game. Well I didnt mean you randomly hit right (hence "lucky" not lucky), if you had good reason to frame him then kudos. But I just kinda mean you hit bullseye with one move which gave you the game. Had you not done it, I think town would have won. Partially due the double paramedics of course, which definitely would have been reasonable by mafia to blame the loss on in that case. As I said, too many too good roles means roles win games not good play. This time a mafia role got you the win imo. Less quantity of roles and less powerful roles please :<
As I said earlier. Even with the frame if VE had handled it better, been townier etc. Town still wins. It was not as if it was 'oh we framed kush GG.' There was a lot more to it then that.
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On October 18 2012 17:35 Kreb wrote:
Oh and I agree the setup was town favored. But the reason you overcame that wasnt because of sick mafia play where you tricked us all.
Nope but we put a lot off effort into achieving and then facilitating that last day when it was Kreb vs Viscera Eyes. And that was all we needed to do to fulfill our wincon. We didn't care if we were outed. It didn't matter.
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On October 18 2012 17:41 Kreb wrote:
Oh well, I'll drop it :p I'll probably just come off as bitter, which I really am not. Im quite satisfied with my play and as I said dont mind losing to whats clearly a part of the game.
And someone reply how BC could know my role! :<
BC could answer that best no doubt.
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On October 18 2012 17:49 Kreb wrote:
I think I'll enjoy mafia play much more than town play in this game :p
MODS GIVE ME MAFIA ROLES PLEASE
Heh. I much prefer town although I have played mafia more than town. It is harder and tiring and often difficult to stay motivated with. There is a reason sloosh and Shiao were afk. Hehe.
Playing mafia is just like playing town. Except you have certain restrictions and everything you say is fake and feels forced.
at least that's how I view it.
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On October 18 2012 20:19 kushm4sta wrote:
This game made me angry and sad.
Sup Kush. I was the framer <3
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On October 18 2012 21:03 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 20:20 Kreb wrote:On October 18 2012 19:23 marvellosity wrote:
Kreb, if you'd have lynched VE all over again, then you've learnt nothing from this game. Go back and look at what you did wrong.
You realize thats not helping me, right? Without meaning to be rude, your own attitude isn't helping you. You just said, basically, "I committed this horrendous, game-losing mistake, but... yay! I'd do it again!" Which is silly. VE didn't play perfectly, but you went tunnel-tastic on him, and one of the roots of it was you WIFOMing on my actions. You were told by numerous players that using anything I did/said is an exercise in futility, as skilled scum players don't leave obvious tracks, and you can see this now. Again much as VE didn't play perfectly, there were far scummier players in the thread than VE. Both slOosh and ShiaoPi literally had no town features about their play. A couple of players made strong cases on DP (I believe relating to his kush flip flops etc?) as well as his large amount of implied knowledge about KP.You're not stupid by any means, and if you'd taken a step back from your VE case (when plenty of people told you to do so), you are quite capable of seeing these other things for yourself.
The cases were not that strong. Not enough to get me lynched anyway.
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On October 18 2012 21:30 marvellosity wrote:
The cases should have been strong enough to get you lynched, but town were busy derping elsewhere.
Well you know you aren't going to be lynched when you asked to be bussed hard and proceed to do so and then you get like 2 votes and one is your own team mate....
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On October 18 2012 21:30 marvellosity wrote:
The cases should have been strong enough to get you lynched, but town were busy derping elsewhere.
edit: DP, you definitely played the best, and as town I'd have lynched you only after lynching the other two, but the cases + your implied knowledge (you went crazy in scumQT at your own slip remember) were lynchable as well.
Don't you mean iffy? I thought I had slipped worse than I did. I was also frustrated because sloosh and shiao were really absent at that stage and I felt I had to carry them. But the slip wasn't as bad as I thought and they both picked up their activity. sloosh in particular.
As to flip flopping on kush. That is the opposite of what a scum would do. Which is why I did it. Who in their right mind would try and derail a quiet town lynch as scum. The scummy thing was trying to lynch Z-Boson by accusing him of setting up a mislynch off the back of a kush green flip when that is exactly what I was doing to him.
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@ kreb. just hope that vig's shoot the inactives. or they get modkilled. To be honest mattchew should have been modkilled but he was integral to the third parties wincon.
At the end of every game you are going to experience similar things though. It is devolution of the thread. Scum weed out all the strong and active players and you are left with those who don't really care about the game for one reason or another. My last two scum games people have blamed town for being bad etc. When scum win. But the plan as scum is for all those good players to be gone by that point.
So I guess what I am saying is the state of endgame towns are inevitable. Unless everyone is really super active every single game.
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On October 20 2012 11:08 Shady Sands wrote:
how can I improve?
Play more like you played in NMMXXIV. That was your best game IMO.
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EPT
