EPTI Think Corrosion made a mistake. With not reading the context of my filter properly. He seems like a newbie so I am willing to be lenient on him for that. he also seemed to be genuinely trying to scum hunt. Furthermore, My 2 top scum reads immediately jumped on corrosion after the Kush flip. Now people talked about kush who was on his last newbie (just like Z - Boson and myself) being an easy target. But if anyone is an easy target it is corrosion who is on his first game and made a pretty easy mistake.
Newbie Mini Mafia XXVIII - Page 23
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DarthPunk
Australia10854 Posts
I Think Corrosion made a mistake. With not reading the context of my filter properly. He seems like a newbie so I am willing to be lenient on him for that. he also seemed to be genuinely trying to scum hunt. Furthermore, My 2 top scum reads immediately jumped on corrosion after the Kush flip. Now people talked about kush who was on his last newbie (just like Z - Boson and myself) being an easy target. But if anyone is an easy target it is corrosion who is on his first game and made a pretty easy mistake. | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
My second case that I mentioned last night was going to be SDM, for his meta this game is way off from last game in terms of activity. However, his posts are solid so far. Thus, I'm not gonna waste my time when there are others that need to be addressed. @Boson When looking for scum after the lynch of kush, my main targets are people who voted after it was clear that he was doomed. Also, I look at who doubted the reasoning for kush's lynch before he became doomed and then suddenly switched after he was doomed. All 4 of those lurkers fall into the category of voting for him after it was clear he would be lynched. Another person to add to this list is Alsn (who I will address later). By my count, the voting happened in this order 1)DP(cancel later) 2)Stutters 3)SDM 4)Z-Boson 5)Me 6)Omniscient 7)DP 8)RemedySC 9)Djodret 10)Corrosion 11)Alsn In terms of the 4 lurkers you wanted me to look at, I believe Corrosion would be the most likely scum. 1) Remedy's posting has been better than last games. I don't see anything eye popping 2) Djodref - He is wish washy with his convictions and seems easily persuaded. However, his case against corrosion seems to bear weight Those two are null reads for me atm. Now for the second two. Both come off as scummy. 3) Omniscient - His first big post A summary of the kush saga, no in depth analysis, he's a "little suspicious" The next post about kush Yet again, hasn't really stated a strong position. His only posts in terms of cases are about kush, yet doesn't really make a real read. Finally, the vote post On September 29 2012 09:44 Omniscient4983 wrote: Woosh, I get back from a little dinner and find Kush complaining about 2 votes and giving up on the world. From a gameplay perspective, I don't feel the whining is conveying any sort of innocence. The dramatization / apologizing is being overplayed. As debears put it, Kush is either: ##Vote: Kush He quickly turned from not being sure to voting based on my reasoning, although he is suspicious of me at this point, as shown by this post On September 29 2012 11:48 Omniscient4983 wrote: @Kush I found Z-BosoN's case to bear much validity, actually. It confirmed the suspicions I had when debears instantly assumed djodref was a townie. How was his case so, erm, "try harded"? After the lynch, his posts go off a little bit. + Show Spoiler + On September 30 2012 06:27 Omniscient4983 wrote: I agree we should take the focus off of Debears, as Z-BosoN did a fair job of outlining the points against him. But why Corrosion? I realize he opposed the fact that Darth was so heavily attacking Kush, but I don't think he was casting him in a "scummy shadow". His case against Darth was based on nothing, really; just the fact that he thought pursuing the scum-slip and ignoring everyone else was a poor idea. I don't read Corrosion as scum at all. And Debears in no way looks more genuine than him. For someone suspicious of me, I do find it odd that you suddenly want to shift focus off me. Also, your defense of corrosion was odd. His posts have been scummy (bear with me on this one I am addressing Corrosion after omniscient). This next post is the first actual, original case I've seen him post I feel as though he didn't sufficiently read Remedy's arguments, which were decent. I'm not sure if Omniscient realized this but corrosion was making a case on darth, the primary attacker of kush. By refuting Corrosion's argument about DP, Remedy was actually helping the case against kush. He seems to understand what remedy was saying. Overall, this isn't a strong case. For that reason I'm going to wait for more posts from Omniscient. Corrosion, on the other hand, has stronger evidence piling up. First, his call out of remedy early in the game was unwarranted He wants Remedy to post more and tell him about Remedy's reads. However, he had not posted any reads of his own at this point. It's contradicting. Something that can make him look like he's contributing. Now, on to him post about Darth This post really raised my eyes looking back at it. First, he mentions darth's "everybody stop leaving after your intro" post. He doesn't see reason although the reason is clear at that moment: everyone was doing that. Next, he brings up about why darth brought up darth's past games. It was pretty easy to see at that point that I asked darth for that information. This indicates to me that he(corrosion) wasn't reading the thread. He was most likely skimming. At all stages in the game, a townie must be reading and rereading the thread, since a townie has no extra information and townies have to catch the mafia. Mafia, on the other hand, don't have to do the same. They can get away with skimming since they just need to keep the town distracted. Now, I'm going to pull out the phrase with red I'm not saying that I'm sure the scum slip is an actual slip, but if it is and it results in a succesful lynch, I think town got very lucky. Scum usually wouldn't slip in such an obvious manner. Notice the wording, "I think town got lucky". Not we, the town. He seems to be excluding himself from us. Not strong at all in itself, but something to notice. If he thinks that town would be lucky if kush flipped red, then it is sensible to assume that he thinks kush is town. Next post, + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 07:17 corrosion wrote: You're not seeing my points in the proper context. Now maybe you think my analysis is weak. I can understand that view. I haven't played in one of these before, so I'm not really good at seeing the difference between weak arguments and strong arguments. Some of the other posters in the thread encouraged new players to post, but maybe I should have waited awhile and tried to build a really solid case. I haven't made up mind yet, so I'll be voting tomorrow. I'm thinking Kush, but I'll browse the latest developments tomorrow and see if anything has changed by then. So he thinks kush will most likely be town, yet he is thinking about voting for him? That's not sensible. So, the one whom he thought would be a "lucky" scum flip is now his biggest scum read? In my eyes, this sudden flip can be easily explained if he is mafia. At this point, he is the second to last person to vote for kush. Kush is doomed. If he is mafia, he realizes there is no reason and should hop on the bandwagon. Notice that his reasoning is poor in previous posts. He never had a strong indication of kush as mafia. Furthermore, I want to point out that his only case at this point was kush. He had not done any scumhunting up to this point besides a one liner saying that I confirmed Djordref as town. You can say it's scumhunting but one line =/= a case. Hist next post is a response to Z-Boson. His responses are in the red (it's how he formatted it in his original post). + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 18:43 corrosion wrote: Adressing your issues: + Show Spoiler + 3) You are just rambling here, I think. I take the DP/kush exchange as being genuine, unless they are both scum and agreed to flaming each other. I don't think thta's likely, due to kush's fiery meta. The first paragraph was a mistake by me, explained in my previous post. The intention of the second paragraph, was to try to get some feedback from other posters. Right now, I don't think the case is strong at all so I actually think people should focus more on their own reads and trying to find the best lynching candidate. 4) I don't get the reasoning behind this post. You are trying to make a case on DP, and concluded that you don't feel like it and actually think that kush is a better lynch? Also, stutters has made a case on him. Why not reference that? I wasn't as much trying to make a case as just referencing my findings. I was trying the approach of focusing on one player (suggested in one of the guides). I figured that someone else was going to post a case on Kush, so I tried to focus on a player that noone else was pressuring much. I'll admit that my attempt seems to have failed quite a bit. The reason that I didn't reference Stutters, was that he made his case 7 minutes before I posted. I did not check the thread for new posts before I posted. This post is another one that makes me scratch my head. He has a vote on kush, who he doesn't think will flip scum, and a case on DP. He drops the case on DP, now calling it a "reference" and stating that he "wasn't trying to make a case". Here, he finally states his reasoning for voting kush. Notice the timestamp. Way after his vote On September 29 2012 21:59 corrosion wrote: Let me just state the reasons that my vote is on Kush right now: 1) I think his explanation of the slip was poor. If he had given a good explanation, I might have believed him. 2) I've been thinking about who would benefit if the result is a no-lynch. I'm thinking mafia is likely to benefit the most from a no-lynch. Right now, I think that there's more than a 25 % chance that Kush is scum. Therefore, I'm voting for him. I'm not sure if any of these points are original. I'm having trouble keeping up with the thread, because I tend to get hanged up in details. His point 1) Notice the timestamp of his vote post. Now, look at the timestamp of kush's explanation + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 20:12 kushm4sta wrote: Sup have to make this post real quick. Will read everything and post on my phone late.r 1. Why are you putting my name in red like darth? it seems like you are subliminally trying to influence people to your cause. This is a game of logic not advertising. 2. My supposed scumslip: huh? What else should I have called you? Player? Person? Maybe but to me those things sound awkward. Townie just seemed like the most non awkward word to use. Innocent until proven guilty. That's how we do it in America bro. Corrosion's vote came way after the explanation. He had made no mention about disliking the explanation even through his vote post. The only time he brings it up is way after the vote post when he decides to suddenly explain the reasoning for his vote On pt 2) What did the no lynch have to do with his vote on kush? A no lynch was not even in the discussion. At this point, there were 2 good candidates for lynching. Me and Kush. This is all way too odd to ignore. And finally, the last post I will look at + Show Spoiler + On September 30 2012 05:16 corrosion wrote: I considered the possibility of both being scum early on but if both were scum, I see no reason whatsoever for Kush's scumslip. So I'm now saying that Darth is close to being confirmed town. This is something town should keep in mind during N1 and D2. It would be a spectacular bus if they did this on purpose. The only reason I can see for doing that, would be if Kush had slipped earlier in the thread. I do not think so but if someone wants to look into it, go ahead. I'm not going to spend my time on that. So he still has some suspicions in regard to DP, whom he was suspicious of d1. Yet, he says that some one else can check it out. He seems to not care about scumhunting and following his leads. He is not exhibiting townie behavior. If the town should keep it in mind, why isn't he researching it to help our cause? Overall, I could see Corrosion as scum. He follows the trend of what I look for. He doubted the case on kush (even tried a case against DP) but then suddenly switched to kush with no reasoning until later. His actions mostly have mafia motivations (unless I'm mistaken). Phew. Will have Alsn's case up most likely tomorrow. These take forever. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10854 Posts
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
 I haven't gone over his filter carefully enough yet. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss corrosion, but atm I have a neutral read of him. Anyways, gonna go through debears case first. | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
I think you are too obvious a choice to get saved by a medic as well, mafia would be taking a huge risk | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10854 Posts
On September 30 2012 12:03 Z-BosoN wrote: Djoref seems pretty townie to me, so that only leaves RSC I haven't gone over his filter carefully enough yet. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss corrosion, but atm I have a neutral read of him. Anyways, gonna go through debears case first. Wow. How could you have a town read on Djo and not a town read on Remedy? I am blown away. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10854 Posts
On September 30 2012 12:05 Z-BosoN wrote: Also, DP, I wouldn't count on you being dead I think you are too obvious a choice to get saved by a medic as well, mafia would be taking a huge risk Yeha if we have a medic they should save me 100%. | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
On September 30 2012 12:17 DarthPunk wrote: Wow. How could you have a town read on Djo and not a town read on Remedy? I am blown away. He's cute! He wants us to get his name right. But that aside, he has some townie posts, that add information. Examples: His own case against corrosion, which you actually agreed with: + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 13:17 Djodref wrote: Hey, guys ! I would like to bring up something that struck me in the post of corrosion about Darth. I didn't like this post in general because it didn't match my interpretations of the early events between Kush and Darth but I understand that our views can differ. But looking back at corrosion filter, he's trying to find scummy motivation for Darth to give his links to his previous game. Check the bolded part in the spoiler. + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 04:29 corrosion wrote: I'm just going to address the "fight" between Darth and Kush. I'm going to focus on Darth for now. Looking more closely into Kush's contribution is something I think should be done well ahead of lynch time. I'm actually going to start by telling about some thoughts I had after reading my role PM. I was trying to figure out what players town should be focusing on. I had obsed NMMXXVII, and came to the conclusion that it might be reasonable to go after any player except Kush. I figured that Kush was going to make a lot of posts anyway, so I was thinking that we could get a good analysis of him without any early pressure. One of the first things Darth did was to antagonize Kush: + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: No it's not. It is simply a mechanism to get the discussion going and allows scum to seem to participate and to potentially mislynch an inactive townie. Any more talk of policy will get you FoS'd. I'm thinking that this could easily be an attempt to start a fight that would result in derailing the thread. Kush responded the way I expected him to, and these two posters exchanged arguments back and forth. In the middle of this, Darth made a remark against lurkers, but quickly changed his focus back on Kush. I don't see why he should make this comment at this time, since it wasn't going to get looked at while there was a fight going on. Shortly afterwards, Kush makes his supposed scum slip. Darth jumps on it, and shortly afterwards he posts about his previous mafia games. I've watched the game where he played cop, and seen that he and Shady argued a lot on D1. So I was thinking that this seems to be Darth's town meta. But I also asked myself why he did post about his previous games at this point in time. Maybe this was all intentional. Suppose he suddenly remembered that game. He might not have wanted people to look at those games earlier, but now he realized that if he posted them he would be able to establish a town read on himself. I'm not sure if this is a strong case against Darth at the moment. I would like some input from the more experienced players here. If Kush hadn't made that slip, I think the derailing argument would have looked strong. Now it doesn't look so strong, because we've actually gotten new information. I'm not saying that I'm sure the scum slip is an actual slip, but if it is and it results in a succesful lynch, I think town got very lucky. Scum usually wouldn't slip in such an obvious manner. His cases against Debears and Alsn are something that might reveal useful information, but I've not studied them closely yet. I still think that Kush seems more suspicious when everything is taken into consideration but with all the focus that has been on him, I'm sure someone else can post a decent case on him before we need to consider our first lynch. But Darth was just answering a request from debears ! + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 11:39 debears wrote: As I said, I want a quick look at you first. Second, there isn't much more to add to what you said about it. It does give off the impression of extra information. I think corrosion was trying to cast scummy shadow on Darth to shift the focus on Kush. I did so by omitting/deforming some parts of the thread history. Also, he fits my definition of a semi-lurker trying to blend in. So, corrosion, until I got your explanations about this point, I got my eyes on you. ##FoS: corrosion It doesn't feel like a "he's going for the easy case". RSC also has a case against corrosion, and one that comes after (I think, have to double check) after Djodref's one. Nevertheless, I don't think strictly "going for the easy target" is alignment-indicative. But I have to disagree with you here. You are assuming corrosion is a suspicious looking noob townie, and thus whoever jumps on him has a good chance of being mafia. Corrosion's play strikes me as very odd. I'll go over carefully and see if that's what I genuinely feel after reading his filter. I find omniscient to be much more scummy looking than djoref at the very least. He doesn't add any new information, sheeped the cases, and his only pseudo-case is a very weak one against RSC. I also remember him saying that he doesn't view corrosion as scum at all, without dealing with the arguments against him. I still have to read a bit more to reach better conclusions. Stutters is also someone who I can't recall making any real cases or adding any information. I might be wrong, but like the rest, I still have to read a little bit. debears, I've read your cases. Imo, some of your arguments are decent, some of them are not. But just outlining every person and telling us why they are scummy isn't very helpful. Include your opinion in your analysis. Who would you say is, in fact, scum? | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
Nothing that I said proves him town, but so far he has been acting very townie in my eyes. Can you tell us why you think he is scum? | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
However, his interaction with kush seems a bit genuine? Skimming through his filter it kind of did. + Show Spoiler + A bit of dumb meta I'm actually ashamed to mention kush kept saying my case on debears was stupid and bad. He also said that racquetball is stupid, which stutters was gonna go do. He insulted me, who is not mafia, and went on to needlessly insult stutters I don't know. Anyways, @stutters, who would you want to lynch day2? | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
I should go to sleep. At least you are answering pretty well. Also guys, I have an international flight I'm taking tomorrow morning, and will not be able to make it for the night post. In case I die, read my exchange with debears, and later on in the game, debears filter in whatever perspective you guys find him in, if you do decide to lynch him. Later! | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On September 30 2012 10:23 DarthPunk wrote: Can anyone guess who my 3 suspects are? GOGO. I think Alsn, RemedySC and Stutters | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10854 Posts
I am about to start going over the main points against each of them. So expect me back with something substantial in the next few hours.  | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
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DarthPunk
Australia10854 Posts
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corrosion
Norway29 Posts
On September 30 2012 06:19 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: Yeah, Darth is basically confirmed town as far as I'm concered. I'm not even sure what you're saying here (bolded). Care to explain? I agree looking into the more lurky players is a good idea. I've gone through their filters and there are a couple of scummy things that pop out. My problem is most of those scummy thigs could be explained by simply being newbie play and at this point hesistant making a case out of it. I still urge all of you to up your posting, because at this point I'm having a hard time differentiating scummy newbie town and scummy newbie scum. I can see why the amount of posts today has been low after Kush's blow up, but we can't afford it to remain low. Anyway, it's getting late again. Yeah, I'll explain. Other people have also referenced this post. If anyone interprets that post as stating suspicion against DP, they're wrong. Unless someone has an exceptional reason to focus on him, I think their time is better spent looking at other players. But if they still want to focus on him, I'm just saying that they should look at what was posted before the slip. I don't think the mafia would bus Kush without a good reason, and the only valid reason I can see is that it's done to cover up for something that happened earlier. I have not seen anything that suggests that such a reason exists. @debears: I saw your post. I think I've used the word "town" instead of "us" twice already. This is my way of stating thing. I'm not going to imply that I'm town when noone can confirm if I'm town or not. It's kind of the same as that I wouldn't call someone a friend unless I know they consider me their friend too. I'm going to get back to other concerns in a later post. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On September 30 2012 16:29 DarthPunk wrote: Is the player who has not posted or voted going to get modkilled? He has been removed from the game and we are looking to replace him in a reasonable amount of time if possible. | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
Anyways, I will agree with one thing DP said, alsn is scummy as shit. Look at his stance on kush throughout the thread. Brief timeline here: ACT I - Kush. If you are scummy like last game, I will lynch you no matter what. + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 16:54 Alsn wrote: Hey everyone, just woke up and was about to check when the game was supposed to start. Imagine my surprise when it's already started! Although looking closely the game started as I went to sleep, so I wouldn't have been able to participate until now either way. So in any case, I'm Alsn, I like logic. My previous mafia games so far amount to a single one, a game where I was NKd N1 as Vanilla Townie. My filter for that game can be found here. Other than that I have only ever played SC2 Mafia in any significant amounts(a game while using the same core rules, plays extremely different due to the time constraints and limits on discussion). If you are interested, I was also active in the /obs QT discussion of NMMXXVII which can be found here. So, with that out of the way, I read the first few posts and saw that this game continues the trend of lurker policy lynching. I agree that there needs to be pressure on scum to actually post, since without scum posts to analyse all the scumhunting in the world will almost certainly only turn up townies(due to lurkers generally being null reads). That said, I followed Tl Mafia LVII wherein there was a lot of discussion about lynching "trolly meta" players and I would like to take that one step further. Kush, while I realize that you have a posting style which by its nature is very confrontational and inflammatory, I feel that unless you actually provide some concrete analysis without using almost purely OMGUS argumentation that it is in town's best interest to just straight up lynch you right away. Simply put, unless your cases actually provide substance then I think you will just be a late game liability for town, mostly giving everyone a null read and potentially forcing people to make a town or scum read on you without having much of an idea what you are. So to sum up, kush, I can definitely forgive you for your "style" of posting but I will not under any circumstance forgive you for posting shitty content, just like I will not forgive anyone else for doing so either. Understand that I'm not singling you out as a target, I'm using your history as an example for what I consider scummy play. Now, on to actually read the thread and see if I can respond to something. ACT II - It is as we feared. Kush has defiled us all. FOS Kush + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 17:56 Alsn wrote: Wow, upon reading the thread I realise that kush has been following the exact pattern I just now specified to be the way not to play if he wanted to absolve himself in my eyes. In fact, I could go back to my initial posts to him in NMMXXV saying almost the exact same thing. As such, I think I have no choice but to cast a: FoS kushm4sta kush, in order for me to let up, I want you to stop it with your ridiculous knee-jerk play and actually point out why you think other people are scummy as opposed to why you yourself is so obviously town. While the following idiom is quite ironic in a forum game, actions speak louder than words and you defending yourself is just that, meaningless words. Start proving to everyone that you are concerned with finding scum instead of worrying about your silly streak. That being said, I think everyone else is jumping the gun here, kush is an extremely easy target to pick on, especially since he almost never seems to think before he posts. The scumslip that Darth and others pointed out can definitely be seen as damning. However, I am not inclined to agree with the following post from Darth: This last part seems to overly simplify the matter to me. The only reason? I myself can see a few reasons, but I would like kush to reply himself before I comment further as I don't want to give him an easy out. I can state for the record that unless kush shapes up considerably, I'm all in favour of lynching him. Simply because him playing like his normal self would be a liability for town later on due to his inclination to just defend himself over hunting scum. However, I definitely want to give him the benefit of the doubt and allow him to actually try and show that he has town's best interest in mind. So until then, while I definitely would like everyone to share their reads on kush so far, that is not enough for D1. We need to start exploring different possibilities because if we decide to lynch kush and he flips green, spending all of D1 talking about him will put us back at square one minus two townies. I'll make another post within an hour or two on another topic as I think I've made myself perfectly clear on where I stand on kush, but right now I need breakfast. ACT III - DarthPunk, you are going overboard on kush. I find you using ridiculous logic. How are you so sure of this and that? Hm.... I'll go with you being townie, ya know, for throwing yourself out there. + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 22:03 Alsn wrote: Astonishing how? I would like you to explain what's so amazingly pro-town about tunneling kush from the very beginning. I find the risks of that approach to be very high from a town perspective. There are two scenarios: A) He flips green, and unless he during the day completely changed his character we will have almost no way of distinguishing who among the people who pushed for his lynch were scum and who were town. B) He flips scum, at this point I just don't find that likely enough to risk A) happening. That fact alone is enough for me to see that post of debears as entirely reasonable, since both of you at the time were basically calling out kush for every single post he was making(for good reason, but not if that's the only thing you are doing). + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 00:24 Alsn wrote: Given the evidence so far no, I don't, and frankly I don't see why that's so hard to believe. Given his history, it should be easy to see for anyone that while he has different town and scum metas(as pointed out by Hapahauli in the obs QT of NMMXVII), his comments so far this game is entirely in line with the way he usually posts during D1. Basically just writing up whatever is on his mind. That to me doesn't really increase or decrease the chances of him flipping either way(but the setup of the game says all else being equal, 75% of the players are green, 25% are scum) Yes, you called him out for good reason because his arguments(like so many times before this game) make little to no sense. But right now the only thing I really agree actually points to him being scum is what you call his scum slip. I just do not agree with you of just how damning that statement is. The first thing that sprang to mind when I saw you quoting that was simply that townie was an odd word to use, why not use player? But a confirmed scum slip? Come on, it's not like he said something that is entirely outside the realm of possibility for a town player to say. "Townie" wouldn't be the word I'd use, but I just can't see it as that obvious a scum slip. I'll accept that you are not necessarily wrong for thinking so however. Given that there are no other developments then sure, I'll admit that there's at least a higher chance of kush being scum than a random lurker being scum. But I would really like it if we could at least try to get better odds than that. Best case scenario for me would be actually having everyone talk, present cases and opinions and if no one else presents themselves as scummy, then and only then will I roll the dice on kush. Remember, there are 3 scum, not only one. Who knows, if he's scum as you say, he might look even scummier by lynch time. The case being what it is with kush, I can see now that what you were doing wasn't tunneling per se. However, I think you are doing the very thing you are accusing me of doing where you say debears was trying to "shut down" the case against kush. Like I've said several times now, that's not at all how I interpreted it, only that we shouldn't limit ourselves to a single discussion topic which at the time I felt debears was trying to suggest. Something that I happen to agree with. This statement makes little sense to me. You say you were not tunneling, which I can now appreciate as probably true, but up until recently was not clear at all to me(and probably not to anyone else either). You had made quite a lot of posts in a row with kush as the only topic, as well as trying to convince others in the thread that he absolutely, 100%, no doubt whatsoever must be scum. I didn't find it unreasonable that someone would point that fact out to you. My "premise" was simply that if I find an argument reasonable, someone else trying to poke holes in that argument might not have the same motivations as myself, thus they are suspicious. The bolded line is ridiculous however, especially in context with the sentence before it. What makes you so sure that we would have "a lot of info to go off" in the case of everyone tunneling kush and us lynching him? My A) vs. B) scenario that you are referring to was dependent on the hypothetical scenario of everyone tunneling kush(which I already explained seemed to be where things were going at the time). I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you misunderstood what I was trying to say instead of deliberately using a red herring to try and discredit me. With that in mind, based on your willingness to put yourself out there, I have a slight town read on you. INTERLUDE --- kush goes ape shit. Ravages town with his treachery. Denies every chance he has to be saved, and wails incessantly. The ACT I prophecy was correct. However... ACT IV - It is as I feared. Everyone is voting for kush with little discussion. I dislike this lynch. I'm ok with lynching kush, but I wanna lynch my biggest scum read. You know, the one I don't have. Also, I think that scum wouldn't just go ahead and bus. You know, they would probably most likely trying to find another solution other than bussing. You know, like the thing I'm trying to do right now. + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 18:17 Alsn wrote: First, I'd like to start things with stating so far D1 has pretty much lived up to my exact nightmare scenario that I speculated about when arguing with DP yesterday. Everyone is voting kush with only very little discussion about any other topic(mainly, the debears-boson exchange). Looking at the vote count, the last official count says 7, and now corrosion added his vote for a total of 8. With myself that would be 9, the exact number of town in this game. From my point of view, unless kushm4sta, Djodref and Lesrah are the 3 scum, there are scum pushing this lynch. Given that, I'm really starting to dislike this lynch. I agree however that kush has been mostly concerned with defending himself against perceived injustice rather than actually trying to hunt scum, this still does not convince me that he is scum. Lynching scum with an overwhelming majority D1 just seems like way too improbably. Sure, if we had to fight tooth and nail to get 7 votes, I might buy it, but that's not the case. It seems to me there must be scum sheeping onto this lynch. Like I've stated before I can go along with the kush lynch, but I'd rather try and lynch my top scum read at this point and with the current developments, I see a kush lynch more as a last resort than my main scum read. Unfortunately, this argument is only available to people who have yet to vote and are town, as well as to scum since other than myself only scum are aware of my alignment. For everyone else, the "unless a, b and c are scum" argument will include me. My argument is at least enough to convince myself, so I'll be scouring the thread for the next couple of hours to see if my "gut scum reads" so far have any merit and if so push that/those case(s) instead. If it turns out that they are going nowhere, I will vote kush. But I still feel we have enough time to at least have a discussion on the topic of "just wtf is going on here?!". On September 29 2012 18:28 Alsn wrote: A quick addendum, I'm aware that scum pushing the lynch does not exonerate kush since they could be bussing him. However, given the assumption that kush is scum and there are active scum among the voters, I just find it more likely that they would try and find another solution than bussing, especially since it's D1. That's my main reason for not being convinced that kush is scum. ACT V - The resolve. I've had a vision. It is inevitable, kush must be lynched. I have realized the errors of my ways and it is imperative that kush is lynched. + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 21:15 Alsn wrote: I've been doing some soul searching and I'm starting to agree that it's not worth it to try and push any other cases right now. Mostly because my entire premise was that I was thinking it to be unlikely for kush to be scum. I realise that after trying to put into words why I think that is so, I have nothing other than the fact that I "feel" him to be town, which is a really stupid reason for absolving him. I thought I could back it up by saying he's been pressured to hard, there's no way he's responsible for not scum hunting. But in the end, I can't find a logical reason to forgive him if I exclude my own gut feeling from the equation. I think now that my best option is to hold on to whatever small reads I have(because while I have some suspicions, I don't think they are rock solid) until after the lynch is over. Because at least then, we will have more information. So for now, although my gut is screaming at me, I'll commit to voting for kush, mostly because most of what I said about BosoN has returned somewhat satisfactory answers, I really don't like the way a lot of people got away with not basically posting anything at all(I'm looking at you, Djodref, corrosion, Omniscient, RemedySC). I think that's probably what irks me the most, the thing I was most hoping would not happen, did happen. ##Vote: kushm4sta sup scum? anyone? | ||
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