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On September 22 2012 09:17 Ange777 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 09:13 austinmcc wrote:On September 22 2012 09:12 Ange777 wrote:On September 22 2012 09:11 austinmcc wrote:On September 22 2012 09:08 Ange777 wrote:
What's the deeper meaning behind your mountain question? On September 22 2012 08:56 austinmcc wrote:On September 22 2012 08:55 HiroPro wrote:
austin, why do you always ask such weird questions? I don't really want to reveal. Well I thought that you don't want to reveal because I had not answered. Oops. Nope. If I reveal then it ruins future usefulness, and I lose half my ability to read grush in other games. Gotta keep it secret for now. Any comments on my defense? Or are you content testing me whether I am trolling or not?
The read on mementoss is null. You could not have caught up from either alignment. None of the stuff you answered was on the same page as his claim, so you may very well not have seen it. The day post WAS on that page, but again that doesn't really come out one way or the other.
The answer about your read on me is...not an answer. I was wondering just based off the two scummy posts I have, what your read would be. Happy you've got the correct read on me, but I'm unsure exactly when and why it went from null/town to town. Care to give the reasoning behind it?
I know it's kind of nitpicky and technical, but my vote is staying on you because of that deadline conduct. I really find it weird that you'd ask about the mason claim, then do nothing when it was clear they were claiming masons. If you thought iamperfection's vote swap was funny, that would mean you thought the whole scum team revealed themselves in like...2 minutes (:56 was the claims, :58 was iamperfection's vote iirc). Then you're so convinced he'll flip red, despite asking whether prplhz confirmed the mason claim. IF he did, you still voted him. IF he didn't, you had no reason to unvote him because of how they screwed up the claim. So...you were going to lynch him whether he claimed mason or not.
I'm still mulling over your mountain answers. May I ask why iamperfection for tallest mountain?
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On September 22 2012 09:41 Ange777 wrote:
I don't know what's wrong with asking him if he is confirming the mason claim or not. He claimed vig and than proceeded to contradict Hapa immediately. I was confused because this was a totally failed claim and for the chance that prplhz indeed was town he should immediately correct the claim. But no he did not but chose to continue trolling which made me keep the scum read on him. I admit the claim made me falter a bit but only because my town read Hapa was claiming as well. So yeah, for a short time I thought that we might even have the third scum revealing himself.
For the most part, I find nothing wrong with asking.
What I find scummy is that:
(1) You asked, then didn't do anything with the response. Like, you wanted to know this information because you asked, but then you didn't do anything with his ... I guess indirect answer of them continuing to say they were masons.
(2) Related to that, you asking makes it seem like the answer matters to you. While prplhz was still trolly, their response made it clear that they were both claiming mason. You kept your vote on them, not just the vote, but you were waiting to get the celebration started, so you thought him scum. So we know that- IF they were claiming mason, you thought he was scum (vote + celebration comment)
- IF they weren't claiming mason . . . you still think him scum? You wouldn't think he was towny for him and hapa doing that, you'd think them both scum
If both answers end up with you thinking he was scum, it feels like a slightly odd question to ask, and it feels out of place that you don't keep taunting him after the "I'm speechless. Nice claims..." bit.
(3) From your comments, we can't really see you "falter." All we have to go on is this absence. And we can't interpret that as you faltering any more than we can interpret it as "so happy to have lucked out and gotten a mason lynches" or "celebrating in scum QT."
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On September 22 2012 23:39 Hapahauli wrote:@ AnyoneShow nested quote +On September 22 2012 13:33 Bluelightz wrote:On September 22 2012 01:33 Hapahauli wrote:@ Bluelightz1. Mementoss's post's rather took my interest because he stood out out of the rest of teh people posting at the time, that't why I made my case on him, I took 10 quotes because I wanted to see how he posted after his original posting. DID YOU LOOK AT THE POST'S I QUOTED? Sure I wouldn't of made the case if Memen looked like he was contributing.
2. I didn't want to sheep, I always have my reasons for voting X or not voting Y.
3. How was I supposed to interact when I was sleeping when prplhz was on? Points #1 and #3 are fair, but Point #2 is one of my main issues. You shouldn't be concerned for giving your reasons for voting someone when there's a strong bandwagon on them. In your other games as town, you were very comfortable sheeping cases, or voting without detailing your reasoning. You bombing a semi-long case on prplzh when he had 4 votes on him was really odd, and IMO not something that should have crossed your mind if you largely agreed with the bandwagon on him. On my meta, I'm trying to NOT flood the town with 'useless' town reads, and keep them for when I need to defend them from a impending lynch, on the 'sure or not sure on reads' thing, I felt more confident with my choices on cases this game. This is odd to me. Why would you withhold information from the town. Waiting for a huge bandwagon to form on someone before you defend them is just strange. Why wouldn't you try to prevent that bandwagon/lynch in the first place by disclosing your town reads? Lastly, I'd like your comments on the Ange777 suspicions if possible. Any other reads you have would do. The more open, the better. Point #2: I don't feel comfortable simply sheeping because it's probably my fault for being fingered for "Oh he only sheeped he might be scum", I don't like to sheep because of that. Other point: Flooding the thread with my town reads aren't that useful if they're not the person being discussed, and that if I just flood the thread with town reads people will finger me for "He's only spouting town reads, he's not scum hunting kill him!"TL;DR Don't like leaving things to chance Ange777 will come after reading the thread. Now normally I view these things as mafia-mentality. I don't know why a townie would be scared of making reads because people would point fingers or be suspicious of them. I see these defensive impulses as mafia traits. However, as many of you have stated, this is Bluelightz. Is he capable of this as town? I honestly don't think so, since he's normally pretty reckless/carefree as town.
I do not know him well, think this is the first game I've played with him.
I will look back over him and you/marv discussing him later today or over the night cycle, but at least right now, i'm more concerned with the question/answer that caused him to unvote mementoss than whether he sheeps or makes town reads often.
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On September 23 2012 02:21 marvellosity wrote:
ugh, I could somehow see Ange flipping town, and it being Palmar/Hiro/austin.
I think Palmar is a much better lynch today.
I think that as to the iamperfection bit that you're concerned about, there's a possibility she had a "logic meltdown." But I'm still convinced she's mafia.
Which I'm not, btw.
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On September 23 2012 03:21 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 02:53 austinmcc wrote:On September 23 2012 02:21 marvellosity wrote:
ugh, I could somehow see Ange flipping town, and it being Palmar/Hiro/austin.
I think Palmar is a much better lynch today. I think that as to the iamperfection bit that you're concerned about, there's a possibility she had a "logic meltdown." But I'm still convinced she's mafia. Which I'm not, btw. That's ok. If Ange flips town you're scum. And whether you are scum or not, you're blind if you think palmar isn't scum.
Oh I've pretty much come around on palmar being scum. But your worries about him wreaking havoc seem pretty unfounded.
Also, if Ange flips town I'll actually still be town.
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On September 23 2012 03:42 Palmar wrote:
also, to be completely honest, if there is literally nothing town wants to do except to lynch either me or Ange, I wouldn't mind you guys going for me, just PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE read everything I've posted once i'm dead. Don't fucking ignore it.
Ideally we lynch marvellosity though.
Does Ange's conduct at the time of the lynch concern you at all?
How about her answers to which anthropomorphic mountains would be tallest and have the most wildlife?
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On September 23 2012 04:43 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 03:22 austinmcc wrote:On September 23 2012 03:21 marvellosity wrote:On September 23 2012 02:53 austinmcc wrote:On September 23 2012 02:21 marvellosity wrote:
ugh, I could somehow see Ange flipping town, and it being Palmar/Hiro/austin.
I think Palmar is a much better lynch today. I think that as to the iamperfection bit that you're concerned about, there's a possibility she had a "logic meltdown." But I'm still convinced she's mafia. Which I'm not, btw. That's ok. If Ange flips town you're scum. And whether you are scum or not, you're blind if you think palmar isn't scum. Oh I've pretty much come around on palmar being scum. But your worries about him wreaking havoc seem pretty unfounded. Also, if Ange flips town I'll actually still be town. If you think he is scum why not vote for him?
Because I'm more sure on ange. Afaik, basically everyone on either of the two thinks that both are scum.
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On September 23 2012 04:47 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 04:46 austinmcc wrote:On September 23 2012 04:43 iamperfection wrote:On September 23 2012 03:22 austinmcc wrote:On September 23 2012 03:21 marvellosity wrote:On September 23 2012 02:53 austinmcc wrote:On September 23 2012 02:21 marvellosity wrote:
ugh, I could somehow see Ange flipping town, and it being Palmar/Hiro/austin.
I think Palmar is a much better lynch today. I think that as to the iamperfection bit that you're concerned about, there's a possibility she had a "logic meltdown." But I'm still convinced she's mafia. Which I'm not, btw. That's ok. If Ange flips town you're scum. And whether you are scum or not, you're blind if you think palmar isn't scum. Oh I've pretty much come around on palmar being scum. But your worries about him wreaking havoc seem pretty unfounded. Also, if Ange flips town I'll actually still be town. If you think he is scum why not vote for him? Because I'm more sure on ange. Afaik, basically everyone on either of the two thinks that both are scum. Do you think Marv is scum?
I think...at the end of N1 I noted that his interactions with hiro and with ange looked funky D1. I have not gone back to fully look through him today, because I liked where we were and throwing marv into the mix for serious discussion was best saved for another day. I think that either ange or palmar, when flipped, tells us SOMETHING about marv, ange a little more (marv and palmar could very easily both be scumbuddies and just spamming thread/distancing themselves).
Right now I'm still...hmmm. I guess I'm scummy on him, yeah. He just continuously rails against Palmar, lets Palmar get his goat, tries to shift the lynch of Ange. Palmar is right that his play changed enormously pre-accusations from Palmar and post-accusations. My play has changed as well though, so I can't do too much with that. However, what marv has actually done once getting active hasn't felt pro-town. I'd hope that town marv would see what's going on, quit spamming so much, quit getting so inflamed, because he's destroyed town atmospheres in past games when doing that as town. So I read his constant sniping at Palmar as scummy.
I'd rather see ange flip. Probably rather see Palmar flip. Rather have legitimate discussion on marv, and rather give him a solid look again, especially if we flip someone non-marv and can draw any connections there.
But I'm generally paranoid, and so I'm always going to be worried about marv/Palmar both being scum, or marv and basically ANY of my other main scum candidates, because his interactions haven't felt townie this game at points. Best I can do is give an approximation of my thoughts at this point, and then do some digging during N2 to figure out how I really feel.
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On September 23 2012 04:56 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +While we're at it, why is Hiro scum again? I'm mainly sheeping at this point. Palmar and marv have posts about him. Hiro's playing more carefully than his town meta and has been largely useless. He also built a huge-ass case on me and came off it for very little reason (without pushing it) to lynch austin.
He had decent reason to want to lynch me. Some of the reasoning was off, but I agree that I looked like I should have been lynched for those posts.
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On September 23 2012 04:53 Mementoss wrote:
Marv and Palmar both think HiroPro is scum, good compromise?
One is bussing the other is not.
This is assuming a lot. We have no idea who out of marv and palmar is/isn't scum. None, one, both.
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Mementoss,
Oh for sure it's definitely possible they are both scum, but unlikely. Even if one bussed the other D1 or D2, it would be really weird if they were still alive D4/5 why would scum not kill the guy who drove the lynch of a scum. Again, this is assuming a lot. Just off the top of my head, why mafia wouldn't want to kill them as town:
If palmar is town, why should mafia kill him? He's got no towncred, nobody cares about his reads. IF he flips town, then people reread him and give him some credence. Until he's flipped though, the entirety of town basically writes his posts off. He's not dangerous while alive, only dangerous (maybe) once flipped. Moreover, he gives you a great way to split votes every lynch, you can be sure people will be discussing lynchign palmar, voting palmar, trying to get switches onto palmar, and so it helps ensure that town doesn't have great consensus on a lynch target (and if they DO get consensus on Palmar, they lynch town, ta da!).
If marv is town, why should mafia kill him? Marv has spent so much time and effort sniping at Palmar that he's not doing much else. Townmarv needs shooting when he's active, stirring up discussion, getting reads from everyone on everything, forcing action (See BH D1 early). Marv isn't doing that this game because he's bogged down with Palmar. EVEN if palmar is mafia, there's no need to shoot marv. Palmar's existence and taunting makes marv near-useless as townie, A FACT WHICH HE RECOGNIZES TO SOME EXTENT - + Show Spoiler +On September 21 2012 09:42 marvellosity wrote:
I'm so behind, I hadn't even got on to considering austin's posts yet :< On September 21 2012 09:45 marvellosity wrote:
no, I mean I literally had been talking to you and looking at Bluelightz's past games and shit, so i was putting austin's posts aside for a moment.
I'll have a proper look myself; obviously I'd had some niggles as I asked you that question about her interactions with iamp a little earlier. On September 21 2012 10:57 marvellosity wrote:
I need to read the thread more closely if i'm missing shit like that on first pass
What do you think of Hiro, are you willing to make the switch.?
To be completely honest, I haven't been looking at Hiro this day. I'm reluctant to make a switch so late on someone I haven't been giving full consideration to during this cycle.
I won't be here at deadline. I'm at work now and really don't want to stay here on a Saturday. If you guys are switching and have enough votes...then I guess you're switching? Wish we'd stay on ange, who NOBODY is really stepping up and defending except Palmar, who the majority of people seem to think is scum. I can't guarantee that my vote is available at deadline to prevent a no-lynch, but I can stay another 10 minutes or so and hope that it's in a useful spot.
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For anyone voting Hiro, you're comfortable just switching off of Palmar to Hiro because Hiro has been unhelpful?
Hasn't Palmar been unhelpful? Why switch from unhelpful to unhelpful because of unhelpful?
I dunno Hiro's alignment, but I know I just mislynched him in PTP3 (themed, not mini) for being more inactive than I thought town Hiro was, because I remembered him asking lots of questions and pushing his thoughts towards logical conclusions in other games. My gut read, without having given him my full attention this game, is that Hiro is... town? I guess? That point on Palmar entering the thread with 3 scumreads isn't guaranteed townie post, but it makes me feel like he's town.
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On September 23 2012 05:13 Hapahauli wrote:
Yeah I'm pretty comfortable after looking at his D2 play. It reads like he doesn't give a shit about the lynch.
He sheeped Ange, then switched to Palmar for no explanation. All the while, he hasn't given a hard opinion on any other player in the game.
It doesn't help that he switched off his main scumread (me) after building a case on me just because no one wanted to vote me. Didn't push his case at all.
Palmar doesn't give a shit about lynch. Ange doesn't really give a shit about lynch. Zephirdd says he's just sheeping and doesn't know why Hiro is scum (doesn't care about lynch). Bluelightz I dunno if he cares about lynch or not.
Half the game doesn't seem to give a shit about the lynch, except that they don't want it on them. Why SWITCH to one guy at the end of a day because of that reasoning?
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Final thought for the moment, and I'll try and check from phone before deadline.
From what I remember of ange in her newbie games, she's a VERY dangerous scumhunter. I remember being very impressed.
Pure WIFOM, but IF she were town this game, then I wouldn't think the scumteam would just let her slip away. She wouldn't just be a mislynch, she'd be a mislynch on someone who has proven dangerous to leave alive in the past. It's absolute utter WIFOM because afaik that applies to Palmar and probably to others. But I don't see ALL this confusion and ALL this switching if she were town. Scum could just lynch her and be happy with it.
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On September 23 2012 05:18 Mementoss wrote:
Also deadline is right now. Do you not find it odd hiro left all day and came back to say k were lynching palmar now and vote palmar?
I think we've got a number of people who are doing that. I find it...really unhelpful and I wish they wouldn't. But when ange is gone for long periods of time, Palmar pops in and out, Zephirdd pops in and out and just says he's sheeping, Bluelightz is never around, and marv is entirely absent right before lynch, I don't find it "odd" that Hiro returns right now.
I think the majority of the players here are unhelpful right now for this deadline and these switches. I don't find it odd that one more is.
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On September 23 2012 05:18 Hapahauli wrote:
Because it seems that Palmar cares. He's actually pushing his reads.
I don't see Palmar caring. I don't see him pushing his reads.
The thing I see from him that's most pushing his reads is requesting that we kill him so we'll listen. But that's not really being helpful, that's just being lazy all game and counting on you dying to make up for your lack of usefulness while alive.
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On September 23 2012 05:20 Hapahauli wrote:
Don't forget, Ange wasn't accurate until D3/D4 in her newbie games. Again, I find the logic odd, but I can see it coming from town.
But seriously, look at Hiro's D2 play. There's nothing there.
Ange was accurate D1 in the game I replaced in for her. Maybe XVI? Something.
Thread was mislynching, she had been afk for most of D1. She came in, rallied troops, found scum, wrote case, pushed, lynched scum. D1. Then replaced out, I came in, and eventually lost the game because I was dumb. qqqqqqqqqqqqq
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On September 23 2012 05:21 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 05:20 austinmcc wrote:On September 23 2012 05:18 Mementoss wrote:
Also deadline is right now. Do you not find it odd hiro left all day and came back to say k were lynching palmar now and vote palmar? I think we've got a number of people who are doing that. I find it...really unhelpful and I wish they wouldn't. But when ange is gone for long periods of time, Palmar pops in and out, Zephirdd pops in and out and just says he's sheeping, Bluelightz is never around, and marv is entirely absent right before lynch, I don't find it "odd" that Hiro returns right now. I think the majority of the players here are unhelpful right now for this deadline and these switches. I don't find it odd that one more is. Do you find it odd that marv was around all the time to spam and then leaves before the lynch deadline when people are switching to the one person he made a case on today hiro?
Yes, I do. But the logical conclusion of your question is maybe pushing marv for a lynch, which I don't want to do right now. We've got enough swapping and targets right now, another is NOT going to help. This is already way too much.
But yeah, it looks bad that he seems to be gone now when lynch options include PALMAR and HIRO, who he has seemingly wanted lynched since he learned to walk.
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I have to go. I will try and check phone at deadline. Trying to mass swap this late in a cycle is an awful idea, especially when we don't even know who we'd swap to. Ange, fine. Palmar, fine. But then an additional swap onto Hiro for reasons that apply to half the thread is something I don't want to do.
Hiro's post on Palmar doesn't give me a clear town read on him, but...it's curious and maybe leads to a slight town read, for reasons entirely unrelated to activity. BLARKJSDKLASJDASLDKJASD. I'll read him a little closer, but I don't like the way this lynch is feeling.
1.5 days of nice happy town thread, good discussion, good targets, really useful. Then AS:DKDJASHDLJKASDHASJKLDHASDKLAHSD. AMG PALMAR CAME IN LET'S SWAP SWAP SWAP SWAP. AMG HIRO VOTE SWAP SWAP SWAP SWAP. We were so calm and useful for most of this day, and i like the decisions calm/useful town makes a lot more than I like the last minute decisions that are being considered right now.
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On September 23 2012 05:25 Hapahauli wrote:
He's pushing Hiro, and I happen to agree. Hiro hasn't done jack.
He's not actually PUSHING hiro.
He gave his read, but that's it. There's no forward motion or anything, he just drops Hiro scummy at the start of the day, and then drops reasoning RIGHT BEFORE LYNCH.
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EPT
