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On September 20 2012 00:36 marvellosity wrote:austin: Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 00:02 austinmcc wrote:On September 18 2012 07:01 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 06:55 austinmcc wrote:On September 18 2012 06:50 Hapahauli wrote:
If mafia would like to keep hypothetical townie-marv alive to the endgame because of my "policy lynch," then awesome! Mission accomplished! Though in all seriousness, I've read through quite a few of his recent games. He never lives as town past N3 (barring Mad Men Mafia where he was a replacement) in his recent games. If he's alive a long time, there's a very high chance (IMO basically guaranteed chance) of him flipping red.
<3 everyone at all, but you need to look further. He's generally not being killed off for supersexy scumhunting, but because he comes off as very townie and is generating a lot of discussion/activity from others. His early reads, although I haven't read recent games, are not generally a big threat to mafia.
On September 18 2012 06:50 Blazinghand wrote:
Hey pudding-munchers stop arguing about that and read my case I don't know how anyone can munch on pudding. I DO kind of like that observation. It feels almost TOO obvious but...man it's kind of damning. TOO obvious, as in more obvious than Mattchew in LVII? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=14#261Nothing, can be TOO obvious. Thats like saying you don't think someone is scum, because there TOO scummy. Stop waffling, either you think its scummy or you think its not. Don't say things like "kind of like" and "TOO obvious but damning", your all over the place bro. Look at all the reactions to this post I made. Palmar thinks I'm scum just from the too obvious comment. Marv found it scummy. Hapa found it scummy. I think another one or two people did as well. But Mementoss's reaction to my comment felt different. I don't read much into this. It's the kinda post I can see being made as either alignment. Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 00:02 austinmcc wrote:He mentions me later, after Bluelightz questions him a little: On September 18 2012 23:14 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 22:57 Bluelightz wrote:On September 18 2012 22:40 Mementoss wrote:
@Bluelightz case
I understand you just went through all my filter, and basically resaid the things I posted. I don't see how it makes me scum, and adding SCUM! at the end doesn't make it make me scummy lol. In the future when making a case, you should outline how the quotes make the person scum and not re-iterate what the post says.
Can't say much more now since I'm at work. Why do you have to point fingers on everyone and your now pushing Hapa but voting prplhz? If you want to know my best scum read, check who I'm voting, that will be it. I'm not pushing Hapa, I'm asking him to explain his reasoning more. Don't purposely misinterpret me, don't you see how far that got Zephridd with his case on Hapa? I'm allowed to pressure other players while voting another player. There is more than 1 scum in this game ya know. I would say the only other person I remotely pressured so far would be austinmcc's scummy indecisiveness. I guess...I didn't feel pressured by his post. He doesn't call me scum. He doesn't call my scummy. He doesn't REALLY say anything about me above. This isn't a super-strong point, as indecisiveness usually ~ scumminess, but my problem with his initial reaction was that it wasn't strong, didn't call me out, didn't end in a vote, nothing. So I find his characterization of that post as being the only pressure he's put on a person other than prplhz this game to be off. It's not outright, flashing lights, scummy. But when it's a response to pressure and you're sort of...almost misrepresenting an earlier post, misrepresenting your play, it comes off scummy. It comes off like you don't have a good handle on the actions you've taken and are slightly scrambling to explain yourself to pressure. The thing is, I think you're actually misrepresenting Mementoss somewhat here. He said "the only other person I remotely pressured" - the way this is phrased clearly indicates to me that he wasn't calling it significant pressure. "I remotely pressured" - as in, I kinda pressured a bit. But you're saying that he's misrepresenting it as proper pressure, when I don't think that's actually the case.
Some of the other parts of your case are stronger, though. The bits with the questioning on me/fuba without coming to an explanation. I think you also have a valid point that he voted prplhz early, but never updated his read on him despite all prplhz's other posting. Why has it taken you so long to come into the thread and contribute something, austin?
Any answer I give could come from any alignment. It's part laziness, part busyness (although I've had time where I could have gotten active), part...nothing catching my eye? It tends to take something to get me rolling.
Afaik, I'm not the most active D1 poster. Can't believe mini I got active about talis, spouted nonsense, but didn't do much else. Bureaucracy mini I was inactive until sandroba claimed messenger. LVII I was inactive until BM started questioning me, and until I latched onto Z-BosoN.
While I had a stretch with NO activity here, which is abnormal, and contributed less than usual, I'm not generally the largest contributor on D1.
I agree that mementoss's post could have come from either alignment. It's one reason I didn't jump on it when it was made, it didn't trigger the same reaction. It took seeing OTHER responses, and noticing how different they were, before mementoss's reaction looked worse.
I...hmmm, I agree with you about my representation of his "remotely pressured" comment. There's something that just doesn't feel right to me there though, and it's that uneasiness that leaked into how I represented his comment. It never felt like pressure. Heck, you and hapa called me scum and voted me I think but it didn't feel like pressure, because it was still so early and I no longer freak out if I get called scum. It just doesn't feel like he's actually put pressure on anyone all game, and instead of responding to Bluelightz with "I haven't put pressure on anyone" he gives the response that he did.
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On September 20 2012 00:38 Blazinghand wrote:
Cause he doesn't care about the game. Tbh I was hoping he'd be mod killed so we wouldn't have to deal with him.
So cruel. But so true for most of my D1 performance.
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On September 20 2012 01:20 Mementoss wrote:While I got your attention, why don't you answer this... How do you go from voting Prplhz, to saying I would like BL to be lynched to making a case on me within an hour. Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 22:41 austinmcc wrote:
I have been absent. I am getting this vote into thread because the deadline is coming. I like it better than the other options that MIGHT be legitimate at this point, which seem to be ... just marv?
##Vote: prplhz
I think I'd much rather lynch bluelightz, unless there's been any action on that front, but I don't believe that's going to happen. Its not just that you'd rather lynch bluelightz youd MUCH rather. Yet you don't even explain why you think he's scummy or attempt to convince anyone he is scum. Then you spend time making a case on me. What happened to BL, if you'd much rather lynch him why was there no case on him? This time-line makes no sense to me, it makes it seem like your just making up targets as you go, and you don't really care who gets lynched. On that note, where the fuck is bluelightz anyways, or perfection, or HiroPro. Also, why do people keep saying they think prphlz is town without explaining it? All they say is, look big post, big post = cares, cares=town. It makes no sense. And the fact that several people have been doing it, is very strange. The way this prphlz lynch has been going down all day, makes me think he is scum for sure.
As to prplhz. He hasn't been particularly townie. A lot of my vote stems from...maybe bad reasoning, that Zephirdd brought up as well, concerning this game. prplhz gets called out D1, on not the exact same stuff but some similar activity concerns iirc, doesn't get lynched in part due to a cop claim, survives til endgame. I remembered that exact scenario, and it caused my to be ... a little jumpy in voting him? I'd prefer if that scenario doesn't play out again.
I wanted to lynch bluelightz at that point because (1) bluelightz had done very little that I remembered, (2) what bluelightz had done, as far as I could recall, was talk briefly about 2 or so people that I wasn't concerned with, then dip out. The case on bluelightz is "WHERE IS BLUELIGHTZ?" more so than "Here's bluelightz bein' scummy!"
But I did go look at bluelightz after making my stupid vote. I wanted to see if he'd done anything further. Nope. However, it got me looking at you, among other people. I'd still prefer a more active bluelightz. I'd still prefer to hear from him concerning people other than the few he's mentioned. But his inactivity gets trumped by your scumminess.
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On September 20 2012 03:22 HiroPro wrote:
For the other lynches that I see, I'd be in favor of austin. A little bit because of what marv has said (the actual explanations for his obvious comment only coming when under significant pressure.
But it's mostly because of the way in which he's treated the case on Mementoss that he's brought up (not what he's said, which is mostly stuff that could be scummy, but is really mostly just a weak tell, but the way in which he's said it.). I've seen austin come back from generally not doing much and then proceeding to post a case on a fairly new target (he did it in Bureaucracy to Sandroba and then gave a read on GGQ when I asked him).
In that game he was very bold with the way he pushed his case. His thing was completely off but he treated it like a guaranteed case, called out sandroba when no one else was, and just gave off this confident and aggressive attitude. I had found him scummy before that but the way in which he was so bold despite lurking before really struck me as townie.
Look at the way that he's come back from an absence in this game though. He's apologetic about being gone, he's apologetic about offering a new candidate when there are already other options on the table. He at first throws out two names which look fairly easy and then only later once people pressure him for it, does he decide to read through and go somewhere else. This is scummy.
I can see where you're getting this, but you should take another look at Bureaucracy. I called out Sandroba because I thought he was actually scum, yes. But I explained that one reason I was pushing it so hard is that I wanted to survive for a while and had seen that newish guy + paranoid case = survive. As long as you don't come off scummy and you generally tank your cred, scum has no reason to kill you and you live for a bit (See: my experience in LV and my explanation for my Bureaucracy conduct). I wanted more days to check more messages that game with my role, so it made sense to play that way. After that, I'm pretty sure I slipped back again and didn't do too much.
I DO think my conduct this game looks scummier than that play. I don't have a townie reason for it. But look at the timing on my return post and the mementoss post. I'm not only looking up mementoss because I'm getting crap for being away. I was actually off looking at things right after returning, and that was already in the works. Reading through some filters wasn't a response to pressure there. It's a way of trying to contribute beyond just saying "Here's some stuff I think about what's already happened that others have probably said."
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marv, you've been asking everyone else and been thinking. Is mementoss a lynch candidate for you, regardless of whether you find me scummy?
On September 20 2012 01:08 marvellosity wrote:
Hapa, could you give me your current read on austin, please?
On September 20 2012 01:09 marvellosity wrote:
also while I'm at it, Palmar, what do you make of Mementoss?
On September 20 2012 02:58 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 02:56 mkfuba07 wrote:
EBWOP: "He mentions them elsewhere, but doesn't explain them until after he's posted the list." I feel like at that point it's not even a summary, it's just a list of people who don't have to worry about being pressured by prplhz.
Sorry for posting so much right now. I believe I have class during the deadline, and while I will have access to a computer for the later half of it, I can't guarantee that I'll have time to keep posting then. As your vote is currently on austinmcc, care to comment on his case and what you make of his recent activity?
On September 20 2012 03:12 marvellosity wrote:
Blazing, could you throw me a read on austin + mementoss?
I know you're missing responses to a lot of your questions, but you noted that some of mementoss's filter looked scummy and that some of my points were decent.
On September 20 2012 03:32 Blazinghand wrote:Here are the reasons Mementoss is scummy:1) unwilling to take risks, instead asks questions in this post. 2) responds to Hapa in a kind shitty way (link) but hapa's initial questioning is basically a huge over-reach in terms of interpretations of Mementoss' reasonings.
On September 20 2012 03:38 Blazinghand wrote:
Those of you who think you're on real wagons (the ones on austinmcc, marvellosity, and mementoss) you gotta realize nobody's joining you. You should all combine into one super-wagon and pick up the stragglers to avoid a no-lynch, preferrably on marvellosity. Ideally though guys like HiroPro and iamperfection will pull their heads out of their asses and stop wasting their votes even harder than the dudes on the 2-vote wagons.
I'll take a look at autinmcc now.
If you find mementoss scummy, and prplhz isn't happening, are you switching? He may only have 2 votes to prpl's 5, but a swap from you, who says he's scummy, makes it 3-4. Ange says she's rereading, bluelightz...had mementoss scummy then switches because of an answer he gave to a follow-up question?
BLUELIGHTZ, WHATCHOO FEEL ABOUT MEMENTOSS?
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On September 20 2012 03:47 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 03:30 austinmcc wrote:On September 20 2012 03:22 HiroPro wrote:
For the other lynches that I see, I'd be in favor of austin. A little bit because of what marv has said (the actual explanations for his obvious comment only coming when under significant pressure.
But it's mostly because of the way in which he's treated the case on Mementoss that he's brought up (not what he's said, which is mostly stuff that could be scummy, but is really mostly just a weak tell, but the way in which he's said it.). I've seen austin come back from generally not doing much and then proceeding to post a case on a fairly new target (he did it in Bureaucracy to Sandroba and then gave a read on GGQ when I asked him).
In that game he was very bold with the way he pushed his case. His thing was completely off but he treated it like a guaranteed case, called out sandroba when no one else was, and just gave off this confident and aggressive attitude. I had found him scummy before that but the way in which he was so bold despite lurking before really struck me as townie.
Look at the way that he's come back from an absence in this game though. He's apologetic about being gone, he's apologetic about offering a new candidate when there are already other options on the table. He at first throws out two names which look fairly easy and then only later once people pressure him for it, does he decide to read through and go somewhere else. This is scummy. I can see where you're getting this, but you should take another look at Bureaucracy. I called out Sandroba because I thought he was actually scum, yes. But I explained that one reason I was pushing it so hard is that I wanted to survive for a while and had seen that newish guy + paranoid case = survive. As long as you don't come off scummy and you generally tank your cred, scum has no reason to kill you and you live for a bit (See: my experience in LV and my explanation for my Bureaucracy conduct). I wanted more days to check more messages that game with my role, so it made sense to play that way. After that, I'm pretty sure I slipped back again and didn't do too much. I DO think my conduct this game looks scummier than that play. I don't have a townie reason for it. But look at the timing on my return post and the mementoss post. I'm not only looking up mementoss because I'm getting crap for being away. I was actually off looking at things right after returning, and that was already in the works. Reading through some filters wasn't a response to pressure there. It's a way of trying to contribute beyond just saying "Here's some stuff I think about what's already happened that others have probably said." I don't see anywhere in Bureaucracy where you explained that you were purposely trying to come off as paranoid. Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 22:41 austinmcc wrote:
I have been absent. I am getting this vote into thread because the deadline is coming. I like it better than the other options that MIGHT be legitimate at this point, which seem to be ... just marv?
##Vote: prplhz
I think I'd much rather lynch bluelightz, unless there's been any action on that front, but I don't believe that's going to happen. Why would you make a post like this without fully reading the thread? It's not like anyone had just asked you for your opinion on those two. I don't buy the deadline explanation you gave - there was plenty of time still left in the day.
Bureaucracy post is the first point in the spoiler here - On July 28 2012 04:52 austinmcc wrote:Hey guys, I'll knock it off with the poor play and the games. I too, am a nosy employee. Rastaban explains the role the way mine is, I can choose one person every full cycle to snoop, and I see PMs that they sent/received. I chose different targets than Rastaban did, and have been lightly poking Rastaban and Gonzaw to make sure that I had things nailed down, because, if not, I knew the identity of the president of marketing and could just snoop him tomorrow to get more messages. In the interest of keeping things simple and on the slim chance I could get killed tonight, I will reveal everything, and I can sort of explain everything, including the two chezinu messages, in a way that makes some sense. Gonzaw, risk.nuke, and most likely, Q-bert-Z are the remaining scumteam. (1) austinmcc, did you breadcrumb? can you prove it? blah blah? + Show Spoiler +I did not crumb, because I'm dumb. But my play should back up my claim. - In LV, I went conspiracy theorist and I was noob town, and survived until endgame. When I saw I had a power role, I decided I wanted to set myself up to live until endgame, because that meant more chances to get messages and hold onto them, feeling out the scum team. Marv especially can back this up, he left me alive in LV because I was not clearly scummy, but nobody cared what I had to say given the conspiracy theories. He knows I'm not an idiot though, so hopefully this makes sense - I posted conspiracy theory stuff early hoping for the same effect, to get ignored and survive til endgame. For that I'm sorry, because that decision kind of hurts town and it puts me in a mindset where I'm playing to survive and not win. I didn't contribute nearly as much as I should have, sorry guys.
- I haven't been scumhunting as much as normal, because I got complacent with my role. My role scumhunts for me, so I just wasn't as engaged this game as I have been when I was vanilla.
- My suspicions of Chezinu, the thing I couldn't explain earlier, should become apparent when I explain my checks.
- My minor defense of Foolishness, which Marv and VE mentioned, can be explained by my checks
- The message I snooped actually explain the game
The rest of that post I cut, but it was only specific to Bureaucracy.
The reasons behind that post are AWFUL. Ghost had just posted about giving a votecount. Caller's game just ended a day at an odd deadline, so I saw the vote count, had just sat down to look at what had happened overnight (overnight EST) and flipped out and wanted to get a vote in. I can't back that post up with any reasonable explanation.
I can give you the dumb "well why would I do that as scum?" response as well, because it's an idiotic post from either end, but that response isn't helpful.
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On September 20 2012 03:47 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 03:43 austinmcc wrote:
On September 20 2012 03:32 Blazinghand wrote:Here are the reasons Mementoss is scummy:1) unwilling to take risks, instead asks questions in this post. 2) responds to Hapa in a kind shitty way (link) but hapa's initial questioning is basically a huge over-reach in terms of interpretations of Mementoss' reasonings. On September 20 2012 03:38 Blazinghand wrote:
Those of you who think you're on real wagons (the ones on austinmcc, marvellosity, and mementoss) you gotta realize nobody's joining you. You should all combine into one super-wagon and pick up the stragglers to avoid a no-lynch, preferrably on marvellosity. Ideally though guys like HiroPro and iamperfection will pull their heads out of their asses and stop wasting their votes even harder than the dudes on the 2-vote wagons.
I'll take a look at autinmcc now. If you find mementoss scummy, and prplhz isn't happening, are you switching? He may only have 2 votes to prpl's 5, but a swap from you, who says he's scummy, makes it 3-4. Ange says she's rereading, bluelightz...had mementoss scummy then switches because of an answer he gave to a follow-up question? Are you fucking serious? Am I switching from a highly scummy player who's close to getting lynched to a slightly scummy player who has very few votes? I don't know what you're smoking but it sounds like it makes for a pretty good party.
Yes. I'm entirely serious.
I didn't ask, HEY BH U WAN SWITCH?! I asked whether, if prplhz wasn't happening, you would switch. I don't exactly find it ridiculous to see whether you'd switch from someone you find scummy to someone you also find scummy.
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On September 20 2012 03:56 marvellosity wrote:
austin:
My reads have fluctuated somewhat from earlier today. I agree with Hiro on the tone of your posts; I had found something off about your demeanour (I had thought it was that you were trying too hard to create yourself a story) and what he says rings true.
My opinion on fuba has edged more towards scum. I find it bizarre that he's willing to vote you, but then pursues posts and content regarding prplhz, while completely disregarding any of the posts that you have made in the interim. If you were his main scumread (especially as most of his case seemed to be your inactivtiy) I would think that he should be interacting with your contributions since. I'd like others' opinion on this.
To BlazingHand: the reason it was a pile of shit is that far more people have expressed the opinion that I'm town or a bad lynch than they have with austin. Corralling people into voting on specific candidates like that is bad play.
To HiroPro: austinmcc did say that in Bureaucracy to be fair to him, or at the very least he said it to me with regards to his play in Bureaucracy. He's not lying about that. You're not going to get a lynch through on Hapahauli at this stage I think, so vote austin with me.
Palmar's absence is fucking pathetic.
prplhz has annoyingly come in to defend himself and then provided nothing else. I'm finding that pretty scummy because it hasn't moved conversation forward. On the flip side, I found Hiro's arguments about how prplhz behaves as town (sheeping strong players) as quite convincing; further I think prplhz's frustration is genuine; I also see (ironically) prplhz's failure to understand that listing townreads with explanation is bad as somewhat townie.
I don't really wanna lynch Mementoss right now. You had some good points but I think his defence is genuine; in addition to this I feel that he's been playing a little lazily, which I can empathise with. In both PTP and LVII too he seemed quite scummy because of a lack of effort at points.
I have too much fun with setup speculation, paranoia, and odd plans to just afk as scum. If I ever actually roll scum, I'll end up getting caught doing something, rather than being absent and having 2 retarded posts.
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On September 20 2012 04:02 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 03:56 austinmcc wrote:On September 20 2012 03:47 Blazinghand wrote:On September 20 2012 03:43 austinmcc wrote:
On September 20 2012 03:32 Blazinghand wrote:Here are the reasons Mementoss is scummy:1) unwilling to take risks, instead asks questions in this post. 2) responds to Hapa in a kind shitty way (link) but hapa's initial questioning is basically a huge over-reach in terms of interpretations of Mementoss' reasonings. On September 20 2012 03:38 Blazinghand wrote:
Those of you who think you're on real wagons (the ones on austinmcc, marvellosity, and mementoss) you gotta realize nobody's joining you. You should all combine into one super-wagon and pick up the stragglers to avoid a no-lynch, preferrably on marvellosity. Ideally though guys like HiroPro and iamperfection will pull their heads out of their asses and stop wasting their votes even harder than the dudes on the 2-vote wagons.
I'll take a look at autinmcc now. If you find mementoss scummy, and prplhz isn't happening, are you switching? He may only have 2 votes to prpl's 5, but a swap from you, who says he's scummy, makes it 3-4. Ange says she's rereading, bluelightz...had mementoss scummy then switches because of an answer he gave to a follow-up question? Are you fucking serious? Am I switching from a highly scummy player who's close to getting lynched to a slightly scummy player who has very few votes? I don't know what you're smoking but it sounds like it makes for a pretty good party. Yes. I'm entirely serious. I didn't ask, HEY BH U WAN SWITCH?! I asked whether, if prplhz wasn't happening, you would switch. I don't exactly find it ridiculous to see whether you'd switch from someone you find scummy to someone you also find scummy. But then you bring up the 2 votes vs 5 situation, which is why I think you may or may not be shitting me. If prplhz isn't happening and there's only 2 votes on mementoss, why the hell would I ever switch to him? He's not even my second-highest scumread and like nobody thinks he's scum.
His two voters think he's scum.
You called him "scummy." Marv noted some good points in a case on him. Ange was rereading and is currently at: Iagree with austinmcc's case that Mementoss does not follow up his questions. I have to read through his filter once more though to give a final stance on him. . Palmar is unknown. Bluelightz previously voted him and then unvoted for a reason that looks ridiculous.
Moreover, I don't actually see anyone saying "MEMENTOSS IS TOWN." People are actively saying they have townreads on prplhz. NOBODY seems to be doing that with mementoss, correct me if I'm wrong here. If you don't want to mislynch so bad, if that's the worst option, then why is voting for the candidate that everyone finds scummy and nobody is REALLY stepping up to defend (and that you admit has some scummy points, in the only spot you recently discuss him) such a bad course of action in your mind?
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On September 20 2012 04:06 HiroPro wrote:
k, I'm switching to austin. His responses to me are trash.
##Unvote
##Vote austinmcc
Gave you some differences between bureaucracy and here. Gave you the reason that I played like I did in bureaucracy.
As to your questions about the prplhz/bluelightz question, is there ANY actual good explanation? I don't think there is. You can vote me because of that post, but you shouldn't be voting me based on my responses. That post sucked ass. It's not the sort of thing you can shine up and make pretty with an explanation. It's nitpicky, but ... there's seriously no good explanation there, so there's no non-trashy response.
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EBWOP: prplhz/bluelightz POST*.
Seriously though, take a step back. There's no good answer to your question there, no good reasoning that COULD be put behind that post. It's a stupid post, maybe you can vote me off of it. But my response being bad is not a good reason to vote me when there's no good response.
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On September 20 2012 04:22 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 04:09 austinmcc wrote:On September 20 2012 04:06 HiroPro wrote:
k, I'm switching to austin. His responses to me are trash.
##Unvote
##Vote austinmcc Gave you some differences between bureaucracy and here. Gave you the reason that I played like I did in bureaucracy. As to your questions about the prplhz/bluelightz question, is there ANY actual good explanation? I don't think there is. You can vote me because of that post, but you shouldn't be voting me based on my responses. That post sucked ass. It's not the sort of thing you can shine up and make pretty with an explanation. It's nitpicky, but ... there's seriously no good explanation there, so there's no non-trashy response. Your responses aren't scummy by themselves, but they do nothing to actually convince me that you're town. Even if I completely disregard the meta from bureaucracy, the way that you came back is still scummy. Your responses have just been the final part in that you say stuff like "I DO think my conduct this game looks scummier than that play.", which is completely useless. I don't know what a townie response to my point about prp/bz would be because it's incredibly hard for me to believe that a townie would lightly pick two candidates like that when they were actually building a case on someone else.
This is what I'm getting at. I don't know what a townie response would be either. So don't vote me BECAUSE of the response if no townie response exists.
That's it. Just didn't like the reasoning you gave in that vote post, because there's no option for a non-trash response.
The case on mementoss was built after that post though. The vote prplhz post was the first thing I wrote after sitting down, then went to go look back through some things. Mementoss case sprung out of rereading bluelightz, who had focused on mementoss for a bit but then switched away. Realized while rereading bluelightz that I didn't remember much of what mementoss had done. Read him, found that TOO obvious response scummy, then started case.
If I DO get lynched today, I'll note that bluelightz mementoss suspicions into unvote mementoss because of his response to an issue entirely unrelated to bluelightz case looks pretty wonky and gives me a bad vibe from bluelightz.
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On September 20 2012 04:26 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 04:23 Ange777 wrote:@Iamperfection: Are you just completely in sheeping mode now?? On September 20 2012 03:45 iamperfection wrote:
I will follow the two guys I think are town.
## unvote
## vote austinmcc Bear in mind you yourself said the following: On September 19 2012 11:44 iamperfection wrote:
So my current view is your scum and that mkfuba is terrible town. So you'd rather sheep two players where you believe one of them to be a terrible player than vote on your own? And no, I'd rather lynch prplhz who still is my top scum read than Mementoss. Yes, he makes himself scummy but I am far more convinced by prplhz' being scum than Mementoss. It seems pretty reasonable to me I'm usable not unrobe when I think someone is town. So why wouldnt I.
What does this mean?
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Just for later reference, the Bluelightz stuff:
+ Show Spoiler +(1) Bluelightz case on mementoss: + Show Spoiler +On September 18 2012 20:55 Bluelightz wrote:First, I think I should outline my main scum suspicions for now: Mementoss
So, basically, I don't think he's contributing. Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 06:21 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 06:07 prplhz wrote:
hey guys
please no unnecessary bullshit it's perfectly possible to play the game without that and it only serves to make the game harder to read
there are a couple of people around i have no idea who is, can anybody explain to me who mkfuba07 is? well this is a lie already, what is it with people lieing on there first post? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874You hosted a game he was in. More MKFUBA games if you want + Show Spoiler + Hey, here's some games on X, cheers! I think you obviously couldn't search em up yourself! (Scummy because he's just pointing out the obvious things: Filters of past games). Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 06:07 Mementoss wrote:
I think day one should be discussing what da bands name is gunna be Clearly trolling is a fine way to start the game! (Read: Nope, it's bad because it's not helping to find scum and win) Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 06:34 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 06:28 prplhz wrote:
their*
So I am lying or what? I mean, I am not lying unless you think I am perfectly aware who mkfuba07 is yet claims not to be, is that the case?
Maybe you can actually explain to me who he is instead of coming up with a silly list that's readily available to me as well if I just go into his profile. I can do that on my own thank you very much. Thanks for the grammar lesson. Yes, I think if you hosted a game with the player was in it you would have an idea who he was. You asked about him clearly stating `there are a couple of people around i have no idea who is` in reference to MKfuba. Well, you sure made it seem like you were too lazy to find anything about him since you asked the thread about him. The only game I played with him was deathnote, he was active enough, but just seemed to sheep and not lead his own cases. Mostly a commentator. Comments on meta of people are clearly helping us to win the game by killing scum! (Nope.) Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 06:36 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 06:32 iamperfection wrote:
I randomly suggest a lynch of Marvelosity.
Your guys thoughts? Well you have no basis right now to think he``s scum, so how does this idea make any sense. Town wins by killing all the scum. Well, this post is somewhat helping, by pressurign iamP for post's, but the other half is what? pointing out the wincons, cheers guys! I totally didn't know that. (Haha, no.) Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 06:43 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 06:40 Hapahauli wrote:On September 18 2012 06:32 iamperfection wrote:
I randomly suggest a lynch of Marvelosity.
Your guys thoughts? Policy lynching one of the best town players day 1 =/= good idea. Like I'm all for policy lynching marv if he's alive past Night 3 (he's basically an auto N1/N2 NK for mafia if he's town), but that's about it. I propose a less-randomly decided lynch against iamperfection. Thoughts? These are the kinda thoughts you keep in your head. Mafia purposely keeps marv alive, for a totally WIFOM, end game cause of what you said. Explain why you think iamperfection is mafia because of that post. No random lynches. -First line: What the hell? -Second Line: Somewhat helpful by pointing out what mafia does with the WIFOM around marv, doesn't help much in finding scum though till late in the game. -Last line: This line is fine, pressures Hapa to post, the other statement is clear enough as well. Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 06:56 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 06:50 Blazinghand wrote:
Hey pudding-munchers stop arguing about that and read my case I read it. It seems like you played with him alot and can really differentiate between his scum and town. It's not the most for sure case of all time, but the post felt scummy to me as soon as I read it and even moreso when I realized he hosted a game with MKfuba in it. He's the scummiest player so far. Iamperfection seems like noobie, why would mafia out themselves like that, also I think he is bitter because of his history with marv. ##vote: prplhzBlazinghand what do you think of hapa immediately coming to prplhz defence? + Show Spoiler +On September 18 2012 06:35 Hapahauli wrote:Hai gais! Good to be back in a mini so I can actually keep track of people more closely =) Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 06:21 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 06:07 prplhz wrote:
hey guys
please no unnecessary bullshit it's perfectly possible to play the game without that and it only serves to make the game harder to read
there are a couple of people around i have no idea who is, can anybody explain to me who mkfuba07 is? well this is a lie already, what is it with people lieing on there first post? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874You hosted a game he was in. More MKFUBA games if you want + Show Spoiler + Prplhz isn't exactly the most attentive host... I was in that game, and he basically forgot to make the last nightpost for a couple of hours. I wouldn't expect him to remember half the players in that game tbh =P Also what do you think of this clear contradiction from prplhz: + Show Spoiler +On September 18 2012 06:07 prplhz wrote:
hey guys
please no unnecessary bullshit it's perfectly possible to play the game without that and it only serves to make the game harder to read
there are a couple of people around i have no idea who is, can anybody explain to me who mkfuba07 is? On September 18 2012 06:08 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 06:07 Mementoss wrote:
I think day one should be discussing what da bands name is gunna be name my band ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8f6HH.png) *Agrees with someone* *Tries to make connections with someone* *Points out contradiction which he doesn't explain though it is clear* Okay, this post mementoss is trying to find scum, but what is his objective by making a connection to Hapa?! (He's trying to possibly direct pressure off prplhz to Hapa, and confusing the lynch target for today) Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 07:01 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 06:55 austinmcc wrote:On September 18 2012 06:50 Hapahauli wrote:
If mafia would like to keep hypothetical townie-marv alive to the endgame because of my "policy lynch," then awesome! Mission accomplished! Though in all seriousness, I've read through quite a few of his recent games. He never lives as town past N3 (barring Mad Men Mafia where he was a replacement) in his recent games. If he's alive a long time, there's a very high chance (IMO basically guaranteed chance) of him flipping red.
<3 everyone at all, but you need to look further. He's generally not being killed off for supersexy scumhunting, but because he comes off as very townie and is generating a lot of discussion/activity from others. His early reads, although I haven't read recent games, are not generally a big threat to mafia.
On September 18 2012 06:50 Blazinghand wrote:
Hey pudding-munchers stop arguing about that and read my case I don't know how anyone can munch on pudding. I DO kind of like that observation. It feels almost TOO obvious but...man it's kind of damning. TOO obvious, as in more obvious than Mattchew in LVII? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=14#261Nothing, can be TOO obvious. Thats like saying you don't think someone is scum, because there TOO scummy. Stop waffling, either you think its scummy or you think its not. Don't say things like "kind of like" and "TOO obvious but damning", your all over the place bro. Denies the possibility of someone being town. Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 07:12 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 07:07 Blazinghand wrote:On September 18 2012 07:04 Hapahauli wrote:
... or it's not obvious at all, and it's a typical bad D1 case making insane meta connections with barely any samplesize?
If you're pressuring him or whatever, cool, but the case is in no way "damning" or "TOO obvious." In fact, I'd expect scum to be the people most willing to be jumping on BH's case without so much as a thought. Namely austinmcc and mementoss I literally sampled every game he's played in the last 3 months. If you think he's so damn town either argue from this dataset, or increase it, or present another case. I do, however, agree with you that scum may try to bus him. Dudes jumping on his case without explanations as townies are A) letting scum do the same thing and skate by and B) setting themselves up for mislynches. If you have a reason to be for or against his lynch, STATE IT. As town you should have no reason to fear thinking openly and logically. Hapa is right (on this particular issue). I did explain it, I found his first post scummy and your case was just some icing on the scum. It's literally an hour in the game, there is no such thing as voting too early. If anything it's going to generate more discussion that can be looked into more later. But I agree on austinmcc being hard to tell what hes getting at as I pointed out, which seems scummy as he usually is very articulate in his posts and has a clear meaning for posting them. Talks about someone while inserting a subtle finger onto austinmcc (Hey I think X is scum, but why not lynch Y instead?) Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 08:02 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 07:46 Hapahauli wrote:Alas! Austinmcc is at work so we won't be hearing from him for a while. One other post did catch my eye though: On September 18 2012 07:12 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 07:07 Blazinghand wrote:On September 18 2012 07:04 Hapahauli wrote:
... or it's not obvious at all, and it's a typical bad D1 case making insane meta connections with barely any samplesize?
If you're pressuring him or whatever, cool, but the case is in no way "damning" or "TOO obvious." In fact, I'd expect scum to be the people most willing to be jumping on BH's case without so much as a thought. Namely austinmcc and mementoss I literally sampled every game he's played in the last 3 months. If you think he's so damn town either argue from this dataset, or increase it, or present another case. I do, however, agree with you that scum may try to bus him. Dudes jumping on his case without explanations as townies are A) letting scum do the same thing and skate by and B) setting themselves up for mislynches. If you have a reason to be for or against his lynch, STATE IT. As town you should have no reason to fear thinking openly and logically. Hapa is right (on this particular issue). I did explain it, I found his first post scummy and your case was just some icing on the scum. 1 It's literally an hour in the game, there is no such thing as voting too early. 2 If anything it's going to generate more discussion that can be looked into more later. 3 But I agree on austinmcc being hard to tell what hes getting at as I pointed out, which seems scummy as he usually is very articulate in his posts and has a clear meaning for posting them. 4 Holy wishy-washy post batman! Let's follow the logic: 1) First post is scummy and case makes prplhz scummier! 2) No such thing as voting too early! (errr... where did that come from? making excuses already?) 3) But eh... it will generate discussion and we'll look more into it later. (oh? thought prplhz was very scummy to you? awfully passive for such a strong read on him) 4) Holy freggin wishy-washy opinion on austinmcc. 1) Yeah first post was scummy and it fits the meta analysis aka best case atm. How is accusing people scummy? 2) I said no such thing as voting too early is because a lot of people think they have to wait till last minute to vote especially on day 1, and usually a bad consolidation happens. Voting earlier will just bring up more cases throughout the day. 3) Nothing to do with one another. 4) How is calling someone scummy wishy washy. I don't follow your logic. But I guess it's your thing to jump on me day 1s lol. Defend's himself, this is fine, as he is trying to prove he is town and indeed, not scum. Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 09:36 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 09:30 iamperfection wrote:you case on prplhz is shit. a fucking meta case on 1 post come on. Although i dont think that was the point of your case i think the purpose was to drive discussion which it has done. Kudos to you. The purpose of my random lynch was an attempt to drive some discussion. I had already discussed with marv after my previous game in which palmar suggested a random lynch in order to drive discussion on day 1. Thats why i find it extremely wierd that marv didnt think it was random when i had already spoken with him that i would do it in my next game.On September 18 2012 06:46 marvellosity wrote:
P.S the whole point is that iamp's suggestion wasn't random, so we already have a liar. LAL? I say we respect his wishes. ## Vote Marvelosity Well, that means it isn't random because it was pre-meditated and thought out. Sooo, yeah. Point's out something on iamP's reason's on marv (subtlely defending him?) Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 09:39 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 09:37 iamperfection wrote:On September 18 2012 09:36 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 09:30 iamperfection wrote:you case on prplhz is shit. a fucking meta case on 1 post come on. Although i dont think that was the point of your case i think the purpose was to drive discussion which it has done. Kudos to you. The purpose of my random lynch was an attempt to drive some discussion. I had already discussed with marv after my previous game in which palmar suggested a random lynch in order to drive discussion on day 1. Thats why i find it extremely wierd that marv didnt think it was random when i had already spoken with him that i would do it in my next game.On September 18 2012 06:46 marvellosity wrote:
P.S the whole point is that iamp's suggestion wasn't random, so we already have a liar. LAL? I say we respect his wishes. ## Vote Marvelosity Well, that means it isn't random because it was pre-meditated and thought out. Sooo, yeah. Believe it or not it did randomly come out as marv. oh I thought your meant you told marv you would be voting for him specifically in the next game. acknowledges failure in understand iamP's reason's on marv, doesn't help find scum any how! Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 09:55 Mementoss wrote:On September 18 2012 09:54 Hapahauli wrote:
Well tbh, you could make that entire chart red - I lynched goodkarma in one game because I thought his play was "too clean" =P
But back to iamperfection, I'm definitely leaning scummy to him for now. I can't yet discount him just being plain pissed that you voted for him (a townie OMGUS type thing), but the sudden severity of it all is just really strange. Answer this, why would scum make their first post that? It obviously wouldn't do anything towards getting Marv lynched. It would only bring negative attention towards himself. Direct's more pressure on Hapa, So, now with this last quote I leave you with this question, Who is your main scum target memen? You voted prplhz, inserted subtle fingers on austinmcc, and is pressuring Hapa, who do you think is scum actually? Oh, and ##Vote: Mementoss (2) Ange asks why Bluelightz is voting Mementoss over prplhz: + Show Spoiler +On September 18 2012 22:36 Bluelightz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 22:01 Ange777 wrote:@prplhz: On September 18 2012 20:33 prplhz wrote:
Disclaimer: I don't read any analysis that refer to the "Zephirdd Rule" also known as the "Kenpachi Rule Extended" because I think it's bullshit.
Anyway, HapaHauli is playing active and townie and I have no interest in lynching him today. Ange777 is looking terrible though.
@Ange777 Have you been scum at any point and can you direct me to one of those games?
List of people who suck: Bluelightz, marvellosity. What makes you think my play is terrible? And why does thinking the Kenpachi/Zephirdd Rule is bullshit entitle you to just ignore cases? Just because someone posts bullshit does not mean that it can't help you uncover scum. Again I don't see any kind of scum hunting from you. Scum? + Show Spoiler +In my first game ever I rolled scum: Newbie XII. @Bluelightz: What makes you think that Mementoss is more scummy than prplhz? Your biggest concern seems to be that he has many different scum reads but that does not mean that he is not contributing. In contrary it is better than prplhz's filter who has not backed up his suspicions with an explanation at all. Haven't read on him yet, and when I read the thread once I came back from school he didn't stick out, I'll get to reading him now and adjust my reads accordingly. (3) Bluelightz asks questions about what Mementoss is doing at that time in the thread, while saying he finds prplhz scummy but not giving more than general reasoning: + Show Spoiler +On September 18 2012 22:57 Bluelightz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 22:40 Mementoss wrote:
@Bluelightz case
I understand you just went through all my filter, and basically resaid the things I posted. I don't see how it makes me scum, and adding SCUM! at the end doesn't make it make me scummy lol. In the future when making a case, you should outline how the quotes make the person scum and not re-iterate what the post says.
Can't say much more now since I'm at work. Why do you have to point fingers on everyone and your now pushing Hapa but voting prplhz? On September 18 2012 23:12 Bluelightz wrote:
Hmm, prplhz seems even more useless then mementoss, he has declared his stances on some people, and as you said, some unexplained reads. On September 19 2012 00:07 Bluelightz wrote:
Memen: Aren't you just deflecting pressure onto mkfuba? If you want to answer like that at least explain to me why it's the same, oh and answer my question. (4) Mementoss responds to Bluelightz case and question: + Show Spoiler +On September 18 2012 22:40 Mementoss wrote:
@Bluelightz case
I understand you just went through all my filter, and basically resaid the things I posted. I don't see how it makes me scum, and adding SCUM! at the end doesn't make it make me scummy lol. In the future when making a case, you should outline how the quotes make the person scum and not re-iterate what the post says.
Can't say much more now since I'm at work. On September 18 2012 23:14 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 22:57 Bluelightz wrote:On September 18 2012 22:40 Mementoss wrote:
@Bluelightz case
I understand you just went through all my filter, and basically resaid the things I posted. I don't see how it makes me scum, and adding SCUM! at the end doesn't make it make me scummy lol. In the future when making a case, you should outline how the quotes make the person scum and not re-iterate what the post says.
Can't say much more now since I'm at work. Why do you have to point fingers on everyone and your now pushing Hapa but voting prplhz? If you want to know my best scum read, check who I'm voting, that will be it. I'm not pushing Hapa, I'm asking him to explain his reasoning more. Don't purposely misinterpret me, don't you see how far that got Zephridd with his case on Hapa? I'm allowed to pressure other players while voting another player. There is more than 1 scum in this game ya know. I would say the only other person I remotely pressured so far would be austinmcc's scummy indecisiveness. On September 19 2012 00:26 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 00:07 Bluelightz wrote:
Memen: Aren't you just deflecting pressure onto mkfuba? If you want to answer like that at least explain to me why it's the same, oh and answer my question. Read the thread I answered your questions. And please take off scum shaded glasses everytime you talk to me, I'm not deflecting pressure onto mkfuba, I'm getting verification from Marv, why he is biased towards one lurker over the other. RESPONSE TO NON-BLUELIGHTZ STUFF SNIPPED (5) Bluelightz response: + Show Spoiler +On September 19 2012 00:55 Bluelightz wrote:
Ah, Memen, I see. Good explanation.
##Unvote: Mementoss
##Vote: prplhz
If he doesn't step up his contributions (so do I), I think I'll keep my vote on him. I'll go into more detail on this tomorrow as I have to sleep. mementoss never really addresses Bluelightz' case. Just dislikes it as a whole, doesn't find any of what Bluelightz found scummy to be scummy. mementoss answers a follow-up question that Bluelightz had. Bluelightz asked this question without responding to mementoss's wholesale dismissal of his case. Bluelightz accepts that answer, unvotes, votes prplhz without giving much/any reasoning until today (there's a small bit in his response to Ange but it's generalized comments and you don't see any bluelightz-specific thoughts) Bluelightz then says today, at the end of his prplhz post: Basically that's why and I'll be happy to answer any questions/ give opinions on anyone. Noticeably hasn't updated his read on mementoss. We're not even sure if bluelightz finds mementoss scummy anymore, as the unvote was NOT related to a refutation of the case, so bluelightz should still be standing by his case. He doesn't drop in to say anything about mementoss at all, despite his initial target picking up SOME steam (yes yes, I know he's not leading in votes or anything) I do not like this interaction at all.
Burying it in spoilers, don't want to push bluelightz today, but I really, really dislike that interaction. If I end up dying, someone please dig this up.
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On September 20 2012 04:47 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 04:38 marvellosity wrote:
sounds like some epic phone posting gone wrong You know me to well. I meant to say it is reasonable for me to follow my town reads because they are usually right
On September 19 2012 11:44 iamperfection wrote:
i only like to give town reads when i think it will prevent a mis lynch otherwise its pointless in my eyes.
On September 19 2012 11:44 iamperfection wrote:
So my current view is your [Zephirdd] scum and that mkfuba is terrible town.
On September 20 2012 04:47 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 04:38 marvellosity wrote:
sounds like some epic phone posting gone wrong You know me to well. I meant to say it is reasonable for me to follow my town reads because they are usually right
I don't like to give town reads.
I think x is a terrible townie.
It is reasonable for me to follow my town reads and sheep my vote.
DANGER! DANGER! DOES NOT COMPUTE. DOES NOT COMPUTE.
You're giving out townreads. You're sheeping someone that you have a town read on but think is "terrible." This seems like a remarkably bad vote.
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Marv, you liking the company you're keeping there?
You already mentioned mkfuba. You already got this response to your question: On September 20 2012 03:56 mkfuba07 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 02:58 marvellosity wrote:On September 20 2012 02:56 mkfuba07 wrote:
EBWOP: "He mentions them elsewhere, but doesn't explain them until after he's posted the list." I feel like at that point it's not even a summary, it's just a list of people who don't have to worry about being pressured by prplhz.
Sorry for posting so much right now. I believe I have class during the deadline, and while I will have access to a computer for the later half of it, I can't guarantee that I'll have time to keep posting then. As your vote is currently on austinmcc, care to comment on his case and what you make of his recent activity? Absolutely! I think the most convincing thing about it is the overall feeling that MMToss isn't really pressuring his scumreads. He hasn't said much about prplhz since the vote until his post about marv and I being suspicious together. I actually forgot that he even had his vote on him. Austinmcc didn't feel particularly pressured. And despite feeling like MMToss should be voting for me instead of prplhz based on his posting so far, I don't feel particularly pressured by him. He seems to be kind of passively throwing around suspicion, but keeping his vote firmly set on prplhz without any force behind it. I'm not sure if this is necessarily scummy (I know, wishy-washy), but I don't feel like it's consistent with MMToss's town play (the limited amount that I have experienced). Gotta switch classrooms... I'll take another look at austin's recent posts and comment when I'm settled in the other room. Sorry about that :< Regardless of your feelings on MY alignment, his vote is looking a little odd.
Then you've got:On September 20 2012 03:45 iamperfection wrote:
I will follow the two guys I think are town.
## unvote
## vote austinmcc
Which ange and I have already pointed out is not the strongest vote in the world. Let alone that one of the town reads he's sheeping is someone you seem to be struggling with.
Except for the bit on my response, I've got no problems with HiroPro's vote though.
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Sorry for spam, but that mkfuba post actually looks all sorts of off.
Care to comment on austinmcc's case and recent activity?
Absolutely! Here's my thoughts on mementoss. Gotta go, thoughts on austinmcc later
I know mementoss WAS the subject of the case, but that response looks really disjointed.
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On September 20 2012 05:14 iamperfection wrote:
Raise your hand if you are here
Explain your vote if you are here
On September 20 2012 04:51 Ange777 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 04:47 iamperfection wrote:On September 20 2012 04:38 marvellosity wrote:
sounds like some epic phone posting gone wrong You know me to well. I meant to say it is reasonable for me to follow my town reads because they are usually right So you are not voting austin because you think he is scummy but because you hope that your town reads found scum?
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On September 20 2012 05:16 prplhz wrote:
me neither but he's kind of the alternative
Awww, I wasn't going to swap back to you if it came down to it. Sniffle.
While you're here, could you give thoughts on mementoss? I know he's not as legitimate a non-you lynch as I am at this point, but I'm interested in your thoughts.
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On September 20 2012 05:31 marvellosity wrote:
Do you have nothing to say about my play since you committed to your vote on me, prplhz?
I read what you're reading, but his vote is still on me for the time being.
On September 20 2012 05:31 Zephirdd wrote:
iamperfection, prplhz Palmar.
jesus christ look at the people voting austin, and look at the people voting prplhz. You have HiroPro, mkfuba, Marvellosity and iamperfection on MMT, and blazinghand, ange777 and me on prplhz. Palmar is activelly pushing that prplhz and IMP are town and gives no coherent motive for that, and now decided a no-lynch is better than lynching prplhz?
Fuck no.
Austin, hapa, do town a favor. Do it just so a no-lynch won't happen.
I agree that there are some townie folks on the prplhz lynch. Not bluelightz, not mementoss, but the rest of you look town or better than enough others that you should be town.
I don't want to swap over.
At this point I'm happy with mementoss, why NOBODY SEEMS TO REALLY WANT TO CALL TOWN AND GIVE REASONING FOR. I believe Palmar has blanket said he's town, but nobody seems to actually want to come into the thread, call mementoss town, and throw down some reasoning for that read besides mementoss himself.
I'm happy with voting bluelightz if we have juice for that
Possibly happy with fuba, need to reread another time
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EPT
