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Newbie Mini Mafia XXVII - Page 36

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marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
September 21 2012 15:52 GMT
#701
On September 22 2012 00:43 thrawn2112 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2012 00:39 marvellosity wrote:
On September 22 2012 00:16 Sharrant wrote:
In my mind it's much more likely SDM RB'ed me, and a townie or mafia RB'ed Thrawn. Thrawn, I would like to know exactly how your RB text was written. EXACTLY. Please.



I'd like to point out that PMs from hosts may not be shared under any circumstances. Further, the notifications for mafia roleblocker, town roleblocker, and Jailkeeper would all say the same thing.


I cant copy/paste the text or do you mean screenshots?


No to everything.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
thrawn2112
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6918 Posts
September 21 2012 15:59 GMT
#702
On September 22 2012 00:36 Dandel Ion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2012 00:32 RemedySC wrote:
On September 22 2012 00:30 Dandel Ion wrote:
Ah, so Sharrant got JK'd.
Yes, that MUST have been SDM. Scum RB'd thrawn then.

Too bad I already gave SDM credit for not JK'ing Sharrant (or Sharky), now it turns out he did :/


Not necessarily. We could have another roleblocker who is town in the ugly prostitute.

It would make zero sense for a town RB (RB doesn't protect from nighthits) to block thrawn of all people.


unless they thought I was scum

Also Dandel if rethos/you are town then obviously I can't expect you to be able to defend his actions but imo what he said was scummy enough for me to keep the vote on you unless you change my mind about that. So who do you propose lynching?

On September 22 2012 00:16 Sharrant wrote:
Hey, guys. I can 100% guarantee you that SDM was not the one who role blocked THrawn. Somebody else did that.

Why am I so sure? Because I was roleblocked, and it had previously been discussed me being RB'ed by the jailor so that I wouldn't die. It makes no sense for anyone else to RB me, either we have a seperate town RB'er who is still very suspicious of me, or we have a very bad mafia RB'er who thought RB'ing a mason would actually do something.

In my mind it's much more likely SDM RB'ed me, and a townie or mafia RB'ed Thrawn. Thrawn, I would like to know exactly how your RB text was written. EXACTLY. Please.

Now here's where things get tricky. I assume SDM RB'ed me to save me. And there was another possible jailor, possible vanilla roleblock, or possible lie about a role block by Thrawn. (I do consider Thrawn fairly town so I'm not sure about him lying, it seems to be a big risk). So here's where the really big question comes in

If someone is jailed and attacked, are they informed they survived an attack?

Because if they are not informed, it's entirely possible that I was attacked, or Thrawn was attacked, but we don't know. Thus the SK possibility is just as high as it started. Hell, it's entirely possible that due to the flavour we're considering that a mafia attack, when it was an SK attack. He's said the fluff is just fluff, so we don't know what type of scum killed him. (For now I'm still considering it a mafia attack though, but it's a 70-30 thing because I think mafia would more likely go after me, and SK more likely SDM, but this is a newbie game so that's just speculation)

If we are informed, then it's most likely there is no SK, unless they took a liking to my earlier post on how I would play an SK in this situation.

Rethos' replacement is kind of out of the blue for me, I had a scum feeling about him before, I'm not sure how that will change with him suddenly having a new personality.

Kush does stand out to me as a distinct possibility as mafia, but I do agree we should focus more on the lurkier players still. THere's a very good chance that the group of Dandel Ion, Remedy, Atreides, KillingTime contain at least one scum.

Just spitballing here, but Remedy+KillingTime or Dandel Ion+Atreides make the most sense as teams in my head unless there's some attack-y stuff between them I'm not remembering. There's a good chance only one of those 4 is scum though, unfortunately it's hard to read while they're still lurking. At least with Dandel Ion we should hopefully be getting a more clear read today.

Also, especially with the new players joining it's imperrative you check the spelling of people's names. Honestly, my name was misspelled ninety percent of the time on Day 1, it got a little annoying. And some of them were really funny on other people, like Atreides had his name bombed pretty hard.


In answer to your question I'm not allowed to post specific wording but marv said that all roleblock notifications say the same thing. Not sure if you asked me to post to verify it against yours or if you are digging for information about where the roleblock would have come from.

Your logic about roleblocking makes sense but I do not know what information it gives or if the 2nd roleblock can be verified to have come from either mafia or town so once again I don't put too much stock in that discussion right now. However I will give my thoughts on my roleblock. If it came from a town player it was because they thought I was scum, or they were a jk thinking I was town. If it came from mafia, I think they suspect me of being one of the more powerful blue roles and they were trying to stop me from performing an action based upon the reads I was making during N1. And all that is under the assumption that your mason confirmation is indeed accurate. I don't think it's possible that you could have faked those timestamps in 5 minutes and to me that is enough to assume your mason status is confirmed. That's all I have to say about that topic though because there's no way of knowing (except asking for a role claim which I don't think would be worth it for this situation) which option I should believe.

I'd like to move on from the roleblocking discussion and on to lynch discussion.
"People think they know all these things about other people, and if you ask them why they think they know that, it'd be hard for them to be convincing." ES
thrawn2112
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6918 Posts
September 21 2012 16:02 GMT
#703
On September 21 2012 21:55 kushm4sta wrote:
in between class high as fuck so I'm gonna keep this short. mafia don't get bored.he might have lied about his reason for afking but I don't think he lied about being bored.
all he did was turn this thread into scum paradise basically.


Well obviously if he were mafia he lied about being bored. It'd be just another lie after the several he made in the span of like 10 minutes.
"People think they know all these things about other people, and if you ask them why they think they know that, it'd be hard for them to be convincing." ES
kushm4sta
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States8878 Posts
September 21 2012 16:06 GMT
#704
On September 22 2012 01:02 thrawn2112 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2012 21:55 kushm4sta wrote:
in between class high as fuck so I'm gonna keep this short. mafia don't get bored.he might have lied about his reason for afking but I don't think he lied about being bored.
all he did was turn this thread into scum paradise basically.


Well obviously if he were mafia he lied about being bored. It'd be just another lie after the several he made in the span of like 10 minutes.

Why would he leave the game if he wasn't bored?
OMGUS.net, kush sex blogs every friday night
Dandel Ion
Profile Joined November 2010
Austria17960 Posts
September 21 2012 16:10 GMT
#705
On September 22 2012 00:59 thrawn2112 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2012 00:36 Dandel Ion wrote:
On September 22 2012 00:32 RemedySC wrote:
On September 22 2012 00:30 Dandel Ion wrote:
Ah, so Sharrant got JK'd.
Yes, that MUST have been SDM. Scum RB'd thrawn then.

Too bad I already gave SDM credit for not JK'ing Sharrant (or Sharky), now it turns out he did :/


Not necessarily. We could have another roleblocker who is town in the ugly prostitute.

It would make zero sense for a town RB (RB doesn't protect from nighthits) to block thrawn of all people.


unless they thought I was scum

Also Dandel if rethos/you are town then obviously I can't expect you to be able to defend his actions but imo what he said was scummy enough for me to keep the vote on you unless you change my mind about that. So who do you propose lynching?

Show nested quote +
On September 22 2012 00:16 Sharrant wrote:
Hey, guys. I can 100% guarantee you that SDM was not the one who role blocked THrawn. Somebody else did that.

Why am I so sure? Because I was roleblocked, and it had previously been discussed me being RB'ed by the jailor so that I wouldn't die. It makes no sense for anyone else to RB me, either we have a seperate town RB'er who is still very suspicious of me, or we have a very bad mafia RB'er who thought RB'ing a mason would actually do something.

In my mind it's much more likely SDM RB'ed me, and a townie or mafia RB'ed Thrawn. Thrawn, I would like to know exactly how your RB text was written. EXACTLY. Please.

Now here's where things get tricky. I assume SDM RB'ed me to save me. And there was another possible jailor, possible vanilla roleblock, or possible lie about a role block by Thrawn. (I do consider Thrawn fairly town so I'm not sure about him lying, it seems to be a big risk). So here's where the really big question comes in

If someone is jailed and attacked, are they informed they survived an attack?

Because if they are not informed, it's entirely possible that I was attacked, or Thrawn was attacked, but we don't know. Thus the SK possibility is just as high as it started. Hell, it's entirely possible that due to the flavour we're considering that a mafia attack, when it was an SK attack. He's said the fluff is just fluff, so we don't know what type of scum killed him. (For now I'm still considering it a mafia attack though, but it's a 70-30 thing because I think mafia would more likely go after me, and SK more likely SDM, but this is a newbie game so that's just speculation)

If we are informed, then it's most likely there is no SK, unless they took a liking to my earlier post on how I would play an SK in this situation.

Rethos' replacement is kind of out of the blue for me, I had a scum feeling about him before, I'm not sure how that will change with him suddenly having a new personality.

Kush does stand out to me as a distinct possibility as mafia, but I do agree we should focus more on the lurkier players still. THere's a very good chance that the group of Dandel Ion, Remedy, Atreides, KillingTime contain at least one scum.

Just spitballing here, but Remedy+KillingTime or Dandel Ion+Atreides make the most sense as teams in my head unless there's some attack-y stuff between them I'm not remembering. There's a good chance only one of those 4 is scum though, unfortunately it's hard to read while they're still lurking. At least with Dandel Ion we should hopefully be getting a more clear read today.

Also, especially with the new players joining it's imperrative you check the spelling of people's names. Honestly, my name was misspelled ninety percent of the time on Day 1, it got a little annoying. And some of them were really funny on other people, like Atreides had his name bombed pretty hard.


In answer to your question I'm not allowed to post specific wording but marv said that all roleblock notifications say the same thing. Not sure if you asked me to post to verify it against yours or if you are digging for information about where the roleblock would have come from.

Your logic about roleblocking makes sense but I do not know what information it gives or if the 2nd roleblock can be verified to have come from either mafia or town so once again I don't put too much stock in that discussion right now. However I will give my thoughts on my roleblock. If it came from a town player it was because they thought I was scum, or they were a jk thinking I was town. If it came from mafia, I think they suspect me of being one of the more powerful blue roles and they were trying to stop me from performing an action based upon the reads I was making during N1. And all that is under the assumption that your mason confirmation is indeed accurate. I don't think it's possible that you could have faked those timestamps in 5 minutes and to me that is enough to assume your mason status is confirmed. That's all I have to say about that topic though because there's no way of knowing (except asking for a role claim which I don't think would be worth it for this situation) which option I should believe.

I'd like to move on from the roleblocking discussion and on to lynch discussion.

Disclaimer: I am not done with reading the thread and respective filters

Right now, I have deep suspicions of Remedy. No sure if they will stand, but I think they may.

I'd also be down for lynching Stutters, Killing or Atreides, but all of them are mostly policy about lurking/non-conributing, and less about actual scumreads.
I do think, however, that getting rid of lurkers one way or the other is absolutely necessary looking towards MYLO/LYLO. If there's only 1 or 2 lurkers, that could be easily solved with a vig shot, but we have 3 (4 counting the late rethos), and possibly no Vig at all. Which sucks.

I need to look more into debears, so I'd like to withhold judgement for now, but I'll bring him up if I see something suspicious.

Sorry to be "that guy", but I'll come back to this later.
A backwards poet writes inverse.
thrawn2112
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6918 Posts
September 21 2012 16:17 GMT
#706
On September 22 2012 01:06 kushm4sta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2012 01:02 thrawn2112 wrote:
On September 21 2012 21:55 kushm4sta wrote:
in between class high as fuck so I'm gonna keep this short. mafia don't get bored.he might have lied about his reason for afking but I don't think he lied about being bored.
all he did was turn this thread into scum paradise basically.


Well obviously if he were mafia he lied about being bored. It'd be just another lie after the several he made in the span of like 10 minutes.

Why would he leave the game if he wasn't bored?


because I had just outed him as mafia. sounds like cheating to me but that is at the mod's discretion
"People think they know all these things about other people, and if you ask them why they think they know that, it'd be hard for them to be convincing." ES
KillingTime
Profile Joined August 2012
France101 Posts
September 21 2012 16:20 GMT
#707
Stutters seems scummy to me, I might support a lynch on him. He has not added anything to the game beyond attacks on kush all of day 1 which he knew would prove nothing and not get taken up for the lynch - he then says he is dropping them for now because there are bigger fish to fry. Now he has dropped off the planet and not posted since. This is when he should be frying that big fish. Stutters, do you still think Kush is scum?
kushm4sta
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States8878 Posts
September 21 2012 16:25 GMT
#708
On September 22 2012 01:17 thrawn2112 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2012 01:06 kushm4sta wrote:
On September 22 2012 01:02 thrawn2112 wrote:
On September 21 2012 21:55 kushm4sta wrote:
in between class high as fuck so I'm gonna keep this short. mafia don't get bored.he might have lied about his reason for afking but I don't think he lied about being bored.
all he did was turn this thread into scum paradise basically.


Well obviously if he were mafia he lied about being bored. It'd be just another lie after the several he made in the span of like 10 minutes.

Why would he leave the game if he wasn't bored?


because I had just outed him as mafia. sounds like cheating to me but that is at the mod's discretion


So just that suspicion was enough to make him say oh fuck the only way out of this is to quit from the game and pretend im bored?
That doesn't seem likely to me.
OMGUS.net, kush sex blogs every friday night
thrawn2112
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6918 Posts
September 21 2012 16:29 GMT
#709
On September 22 2012 01:25 kushm4sta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2012 01:17 thrawn2112 wrote:
On September 22 2012 01:06 kushm4sta wrote:
On September 22 2012 01:02 thrawn2112 wrote:
On September 21 2012 21:55 kushm4sta wrote:
in between class high as fuck so I'm gonna keep this short. mafia don't get bored.he might have lied about his reason for afking but I don't think he lied about being bored.
all he did was turn this thread into scum paradise basically.


Well obviously if he were mafia he lied about being bored. It'd be just another lie after the several he made in the span of like 10 minutes.

Why would he leave the game if he wasn't bored?


because I had just outed him as mafia. sounds like cheating to me but that is at the mod's discretion


So just that suspicion was enough to make him say oh fuck the only way out of this is to quit from the game and pretend im bored?
That doesn't seem likely to me.


He had just been caught lying a few times in a row on top of other things I said in a case about his posts. Even when he decided to say "sorry I was actually just bored" he admittined that he had been lying. Also he did not seem bored at all which makes me that that was also a lie.
"People think they know all these things about other people, and if you ask them why they think they know that, it'd be hard for them to be convincing." ES
thrawn2112
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6918 Posts
September 21 2012 16:34 GMT
#710
On September 21 2012 22:57 Dandel Ion wrote:
Reasoning: It was redundant for him to roleblock one of the masons.
You all treat the masons as confirmed town, but they really are not. As long as none of them flip, there will remain some doubt.
And it could possibly surface at a very bad time for town. It would be incredibly stupid for scum to shoot one mason, and leave the other in the game. During Night 1, that is.


I'd say they're confirmed town. If you've got any reason otherwise please say so.
"People think they know all these things about other people, and if you ask them why they think they know that, it'd be hard for them to be convincing." ES
Dandel Ion
Profile Joined November 2010
Austria17960 Posts
September 21 2012 16:39 GMT
#711
On September 22 2012 01:34 thrawn2112 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2012 22:57 Dandel Ion wrote:
Reasoning: It was redundant for him to roleblock one of the masons.
You all treat the masons as confirmed town, but they really are not. As long as none of them flip, there will remain some doubt.
And it could possibly surface at a very bad time for town. It would be incredibly stupid for scum to shoot one mason, and leave the other in the game. During Night 1, that is.


I'd say they're confirmed town. If you've got any reason otherwise please say so.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=367548&currentpage=35#683
Ah, and for the record, I wrote that Sharrant and Sharky can't be confirmed town yet, but I am pretty sure that they actually are.

The reason for that is that Cubu faced the strong possibility of a modkill (usually you'd get modkilled for not voting, even in a newbie game), and I don't think Sharrant would go full balls-to-the-walls and risk being outed with the nightpost. Also, the qt conversation and timestamps.

Just so that there's no confusion about that expression of mine.

My filter is not that big (yet)....
A backwards poet writes inverse.
thrawn2112
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6918 Posts
September 21 2012 16:44 GMT
#712
On September 22 2012 01:39 Dandel Ion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2012 01:34 thrawn2112 wrote:
On September 21 2012 22:57 Dandel Ion wrote:
Reasoning: It was redundant for him to roleblock one of the masons.
You all treat the masons as confirmed town, but they really are not. As long as none of them flip, there will remain some doubt.
And it could possibly surface at a very bad time for town. It would be incredibly stupid for scum to shoot one mason, and leave the other in the game. During Night 1, that is.


I'd say they're confirmed town. If you've got any reason otherwise please say so.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=367548&currentpage=35#683
Show nested quote +
Ah, and for the record, I wrote that Sharrant and Sharky can't be confirmed town yet, but I am pretty sure that they actually are.

The reason for that is that Cubu faced the strong possibility of a modkill (usually you'd get modkilled for not voting, even in a newbie game), and I don't think Sharrant would go full balls-to-the-walls and risk being outed with the nightpost. Also, the qt conversation and timestamps.

Just so that there's no confusion about that expression of mine.

My filter is not that big (yet)....


Yeah in that post you talk about how you think they are masons because of the modkill possibility, but I want to know why you originally said they aren't confirmed in the earlier post.
"People think they know all these things about other people, and if you ask them why they think they know that, it'd be hard for them to be convincing." ES
Dandel Ion
Profile Joined November 2010
Austria17960 Posts
September 21 2012 16:49 GMT
#713
On September 22 2012 01:44 thrawn2112 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2012 01:39 Dandel Ion wrote:
On September 22 2012 01:34 thrawn2112 wrote:
On September 21 2012 22:57 Dandel Ion wrote:
Reasoning: It was redundant for him to roleblock one of the masons.
You all treat the masons as confirmed town, but they really are not. As long as none of them flip, there will remain some doubt.
And it could possibly surface at a very bad time for town. It would be incredibly stupid for scum to shoot one mason, and leave the other in the game. During Night 1, that is.


I'd say they're confirmed town. If you've got any reason otherwise please say so.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=367548&currentpage=35#683
Ah, and for the record, I wrote that Sharrant and Sharky can't be confirmed town yet, but I am pretty sure that they actually are.

The reason for that is that Cubu faced the strong possibility of a modkill (usually you'd get modkilled for not voting, even in a newbie game), and I don't think Sharrant would go full balls-to-the-walls and risk being outed with the nightpost. Also, the qt conversation and timestamps.

Just so that there's no confusion about that expression of mine.

My filter is not that big (yet)....


Yeah in that post you talk about how you think they are masons because of the modkill possibility, but I want to know why you originally said they aren't confirmed in the earlier post.

?
They're not confirmed, because none of them flipped yet.
Duh.

But that's arguing semantics, for you 99% = confirmed, for me it is 100% = confirmed.
As I said, I do believe them, and I do not think that they are scum.
A backwards poet writes inverse.
debears
Profile Joined September 2012
United States2516 Posts
September 21 2012 16:56 GMT
#714
Alright very interesting development with rethos.

Here were my problems with him:

1. On day 1, I called him out a couple of times. Both times, he had limited and poor posts before I called him out. Then, once he finished refuting them, he disappeared into darkness again.

2. He says he purposely lurked as a test

Believe it or not I was actually making a test to see how much leniancy lurkers get in this game. It seems to me that it's a lot. I mean how much did people take to realize that I was not posting ANYTHING?


My problem with this is that testing lurker leniency is not something a town would do if they are trying to win

If he is mafia, it would makes sense that he would try to "test the leniency" to avoid the spotlight if he was trying to win.

Then, when the spotlight was on him, he blatantly lied and called for a replacement. Why would he do this as town? He leaves us with a hard to read person since the new guy has not read the thread and followed the game in detail. He has caused confusion now. If he was mafia, he could bail out his teammates and use the confusion to prevent the lynch on himself(now Dandel).

3. His claim of being bored

Someone pointed out his excitement in the pregame with the picture deal. So, lets say he was hoping he'd get the blue role or a mafia role. If he is townie, yeah he could be bored. However, why did he wait til his back was against the wall, arguably a time when he shouldn't be bored, to say he was bored and quit?

If he was a blue role, I don't understand why he would be bored since he would be a key part of the town.

If he was mafia, he wouldn't be bored since he has to think clearly and watch what he posts and try to sway people whom he knows are town against each other.

To me, this gives strong evidence that the boredom claim was indeed a lie.
thrawn2112
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6918 Posts
September 21 2012 16:56 GMT
#715
On September 22 2012 01:49 Dandel Ion wrote:
But that's arguing semantics, for you 99% = confirmed, for me it is 100% = confirmed.
As I said, I do believe them, and I do not think that they are scum.


Ok I see why you said they are not confirmed now. I'll let you get back to filter reading
"People think they know all these things about other people, and if you ask them why they think they know that, it'd be hard for them to be convincing." ES
thrawn2112
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6918 Posts
September 21 2012 17:02 GMT
#716
On September 22 2012 01:56 debears wrote:
3. His claim of being bored

Someone pointed out his excitement in the pregame with the picture deal. So, lets say he was hoping he'd get the blue role or a mafia role. If he is townie, yeah he could be bored. However, why did he wait til his back was against the wall, arguably a time when he shouldn't be bored, to say he was bored and quit?

If he was a blue role, I don't understand why he would be bored since he would be a key part of the town.

If he was mafia, he wouldn't be bored since he has to think clearly and watch what he posts and try to sway people whom he knows are town against each other.

To me, this gives strong evidence that the boredom claim was indeed a lie.


The boredom claim was the nail in the coffin for me. I made these two posts after he claimed boredom. Also, are we just supposed to accept his new story about being bored after he went back and forth between his other lies as soon as they were exposed?
"People think they know all these things about other people, and if you ask them why they think they know that, it'd be hard for them to be convincing." ES
debears
Profile Joined September 2012
United States2516 Posts
September 21 2012 17:22 GMT
#717
thrawn2112 United States. September 21 2012 18:24. Posts 1186 PM Profile Blog Quote #
filter
I'm looking through your filter and I don't see boredom. You do stuff like ask mods to fix killings filter, you make a post saying "don't let conversation die down" and you do a manual vote count.


Didn't see your vote count argument....why would you do a vote count (boring as hell in my eyes) if you are bored lol.....

Oh and this post right after the manual vote count

On September 19 2012 23:08 rethos wrote:
I think people should post their votes as soon as possible so the town knows where it stands. Random last minute voting is bad. People that have not voted (I can be bothered to go check who they are) show your side. Looking into stutters right now.


Dandel, this situation reads too strong of scum to just let it fly.

Vote##: rethos/Dandel Ion

btw Who do we specify in our vote out of the two?
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
September 21 2012 17:30 GMT
#718
On September 22 2012 02:22 debears wrote:
Vote##: rethos/Dandel Ion

btw Who do we specify in our vote out of the two?

Dandel Ion

Also, its ##Vote, not Vote##. When I do votecounts, i ctrl+f through the thread for ##Vote, so if you're not using that format your vote won't be counted.
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
debears
Profile Joined September 2012
United States2516 Posts
September 21 2012 18:01 GMT
#719
Thanks

##Vote: Dandel Ion
kushm4sta
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States8878 Posts
September 21 2012 18:06 GMT
#720
Mafia not leave games as a tactic. Yes mafia leaves games, but they only do it when they have an actual reason, like they are busy (weetee) or they are bored.
In newbie xxv (I think) scum dandel ion offered to leave. This was because he felt he was too busy to properly defend himself as mafia, not because he thought it was the only escape from suspicion.
So whether town or mafia I think rethos really was bored.
He was not bored pregame when he drew a cat. He was not bored d1 when he was very active and made a vote count. That I agree with. He became bored, though, and that accounts for his long afk.
If you accept that he was actually bored, the case against him falls apart. It makes sense that he lied about wanting to test lurker leniency, because he didn't want to admit to his boredom. Also it fit his point about not pressuring the lurkers enough.
OMGUS.net, kush sex blogs every friday night
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