EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXVI - Page 31
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drazak
United States479 Posts
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
On September 07 2012 07:34 drazak wrote: So Kush, why'd you scumslip? Because I'm not scum maybe. Now I have a question for you drazak. It's serious so please answer. Not omgusing, I really want you to answer this. Are you really bad at this game or are you mafia? | ||
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KillingTime
France101 Posts
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Sonic Death Monkey
Sweden991 Posts
For now I’ll just post a couple of thoughts I had last night but didn’t feel like posting because I think it just would’ve derailed the lynching discussion: The town read thing: + Show Spoiler + There are different kinds of town reads. I would say my town read on Kush is based on deductive reasoning. My reasoning is easy to follow and can be disputed for example by showing that claimed facts are wrong or attacking its assumptions. This game is based around critical thinking and if town reads leads to some players being able to exploit leadership roles, the problem isn’t the town read, but that the other players are sheeps. My town read on Kreb is a “feel” read. If someone disagrees by saying “I don’t feel the same way”, we’re in a stalemate. Obviously that makes it a weak town read and I wouldn’t expect others to necessarily agree with it (I’ll go back and check Kreb’s filter and hopefully make it a logical argument later, but right now that’s wasted time because he’s not up for lynching anyway). I feel like this is somewhat relevant now that Kush is taking some heat. I don’t think anyone has commented on the arguments I’ve made for my Kush = townie read. The facts behind are definitely true, do anyone disagree on the assumptions? For me to reconsider my position on Kush I’d like a counter-argument. On September 05 2012 18:49 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: I don't find the case against kush to be strong. I will repeat my earlier arguments: + Show Spoiler + Starting a wagon d1: Usually gives you too much attention (this game is a case in point) Pursuing that townie Cubu: I think at a 4-2 score where no other wagons had any momentum, he still aggressively pursued Cubu. Going after thrawn: Makes no sense to attack the most trusted townie (those were the accusations right? I still need to go back and reread this part) All his actions will give him a ton of attention, that’s not very scummy at all. I’ve been reading through the arguments against Kush but didn’t focus too much on it yesterday because I think it makes more sense to discuss it now. My reaction to reading through the exchange between Kush and drazark was that Kush went into a pretty heavy OMGUS-mode (wrt to those 4 posts he made in response). Is this what you find to be scummy, drazark? Or is there more to it that I have missed? Could you please condense your argument to what you believe to be the most valid points? | ||
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JacobStrangelove
Australia1572 Posts
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
Look at when it starts, right as I accuse xatalos. sorry for formatting this was written on my phone. | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
Drazak Xatalos On the Fence Killingtime Stutters Town Sonic Jacob Kreb Iamcasey Safest person to accuse if he is town: stutters, iamcasey (because they are pretty big lurkers) i know I said I don't like lists, but I think a list without explanations is a good idea right now so we can see where everyone's suspicions lie. | ||
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JacobStrangelove
Australia1572 Posts
Drazak (although need to give it a little more thought) Killingtime On the Fence Xatalos Stutters Kreb (I feel he should be town but I haven't given it much though going to do that later) Town Sonic Iamcasey Kush | ||
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Sonic Death Monkey
Sweden991 Posts
On September 07 2012 19:11 kushm4sta wrote: drazaks main argument against me is just wrong. his facts are false. his case is sloppy. unless someone else presents a better case, I think we should not focus on if drazs accusations are correct, but if they make h mafia. on the one hand they are reckless, which is a trait of town. On the other hand they are senseless, devoid of content, and appear to serve no other purpose than to sow confusion and start a flame war. Look at when it starts, right as I accuse xatalos. sorry for formatting this was written on my phone. This wouldn't have happened if you just stayed calm. If you're suspicious of drazak then look through his filter. Make a coherent argument that doesn't come off as OMGUS-ing. If you think he's trying to sow confusion and start flame wars, you're helping his cause. I'm going to look through Stutters posts because I basically gave him a free pass yesterday. I also postponed answering to Jacob because he didn't come off as a good d2 lynching candidate. And of course I expect Xatalos to answer the questions he left hanging. | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
He is an absolute nullread. Which, considering we'll soon be down to 8 players, more and more looks mafia-ish. | ||
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JacobStrangelove
Australia1572 Posts
On September 07 2012 20:36 Kreb wrote: How can people have townreads on imcasey? Actually, how can people have any reads on him? He isnt doing more than his predecessor WeeTee. One weak case on Xatalos and barely posting. He is an absolute nullread. Which, considering we'll soon be down to 8 players, more and more looks mafia-ish. Yeah cause our thing of lynching lurkers has worked out so well for us. Or wait no it hasn't... we should lynch someone we can actually find a scum slip on not someone who is convenient. | ||
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JacobStrangelove
Australia1572 Posts
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Kreb
4834 Posts
On September 07 2012 20:56 JacobStrangelove wrote: Yeah cause our thing of lynching lurkers has worked out so well for us. Or wait no it hasn't... we should lynch someone we can actually find a scum slip on not someone who is convenient. That didnt answer the question. How did you have a townread on him? And Kville wasnt a lurker/policy lynch, as has been explained before. At the end he was also anything but lurkerish. Im not saying Im advocating an imcasey lynch, but initially nullreads are 3 in 12 being mafia. Down to 8 players, nullreads and still no hit, nullreads are 3 in (8 - <your amount of townread>). That not bad odds. Stutters remain my main suspect for now though. He is still on a grand total read-count of 1 throughout the whole thread and has given lackluster explanations to why he ignored replying to cases on him. | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
On September 07 2012 20:56 JacobStrangelove wrote: Also if you check back in my filter I give my reasons for town read on imcasey/WeeTee The only thing I found was this: Ok, So due to motivation stutters is likely to be scum. But I would like some answers out of Killing as to what he is thinking right now. Your only real strong read as the game went on was WeeTee but considering he didn't have time and had to leave the thread it is likely he is town without time. (now ImCasey) Which isnt a imcasey read but a WeeTee read (carrying over to imcasey). And its a bit strange to assume someone to be town because they had to leave the thread. | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
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Kreb
4834 Posts
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imcasey
Norway17 Posts
On September 07 2012 20:36 Kreb wrote: How can people have townreads on imcasey? Actually, how can people have any reads on him? He isnt doing more than his predecessor WeeTee. One weak case on Xatalos and barely posting. He is an absolute nullread. Which, considering we'll soon be down to 8 players, more and more looks mafia-ish. As someone mention in this thread earlier, its not always the amount of thread that makes you a good/bad town, but the quality. Im not saying my post is full of quality, but atleast there is an attempt from me if you look trough them. If you want me to be more active, no problem, but expect threads like Kville and Jacobs then. Sorry Jacob, i still think your town but you do analyze alot and write many non sense posts, your not alone though.. Also keep in mind im in a completly diffrent time zone from you, so when i get home from school, thats just now : 15:35. I start reading trough post and comment on what i think is imporatant, mostly ( This post diddent really deserve an answear Kreb ) i will not waste time on posts like this unless they conteins a bit more effort.. Im starting to read trough the post from tonight now, with good time to next lynch i will check trough who voted on Kville, who can have pushed that wagon, read some filters etc. I will be on my computer for the next hours, updating this thread now and then and discuss any matters there is. | ||
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JacobStrangelove
Australia1572 Posts
Ok this is the start of a very long post as of such I will try to be as clear and concise as possible. Kreb you missed a large section of my argument for why WeeTee Imcasey is town. First off I will show you the backstory. If you look at WeeTees first posts it includes this. On September 02 2012 21:19 WeeTee wrote: Good to see you here @jacob should be a good game this time! It is evident that he and I know each other. Why else would he single me out? In other words I know how he plays. I know his meta better than anybody in this thread. Also watching his last mafia game he has used the exact same play style. Now you mention that it isn’t an imcasey read it’s a WeeTee read. Yes but they are the same person. It’s as if you put someone with multiple personalities in the thread but they are the same person. If I am 99% sure WeeTee is town I can assume that translates over to imcasey. Also there are plenty of reasons for the less posting style. With him having to leave this means he was unlikely to be able to form cases day one. Also with the replacement going into his first game a day in so much to read and this would also contribute to the lack of posting. I will post the part you missed about my argument for WeeTee. On September 05 2012 19:22 JacobStrangelove wrote: I probably should point out that part of the reason I had a town read for WeeTee is that I happen to know his style (see his first post where he mentions it’s good to see me) and it reeks of town. With this (although he may have fooled me) I thought Xatatos read of WeeTee when Stutters was available strange. Also with killing he is sceptical of “meta” reads Sure but its more information, that can only be helpful. If WeeTee fits his meta (he does) and he fits the meta I know he is unlikely to be scum. This and the fact that he had to leave due to time problems(although that may have been after my time line is a little messed up) then surely stutters were a better lynch. While the argument in context might be a little out of date the facts about WeeTee remain the same. Also there is this from kville (he was talking to xatalos at the time), while kville was a little trolish you can’t tell me this doesn’t make sense. On September 05 2012 22:55 Kville wrote: Well WeeTee Did get replaced which could be the reason why he was playing so "safe" and conservative. He badnwagoned to avoid a modkill in order to fulfill the replacement, so it seems. The fact that there is little to no evidence other than "he was playing safe" doesn't really seem like a sure vote to go for, unless you are trying for another mislynch. You vote and leave the first day and you do it again the second time. It seems like your strategy seems to be "POP" then lurk. which seems a bit suspicious. And finally we have nothing proven scum against him. I am sure if we examine the filters of people we can come up with a far better target. Non of this let’s backup vote imcasey stuff, that just makes it more likely the scum will spread confusion and force us to vote for him. Now I would also like to point out this. On September 07 2012 15:09 KillingTime wrote: ... well that is annoying. I agree that the reason that we ended up with a Xatalos v Kville situation was because we were all accusing each other. I said at the start of the day I really hoped that we could come up with a better lynch target.. but we did not. Scum have succeeded in thoroughly bamboozling me I have to say. I will look into the thread this evening and I'll be happy to answer questions from those who have suspicions of me. After the flip Kush and I immediately analyse it talk about it start making reads etc... Kililng comes in and makes a “annoyed post” and also says he is bamboozled and says he is happy to answer questions about himself. He makes no mention of scum hunting. Why? Because he doesn’t need to hunt scum, he is scum. This is another fluff post saying he is confused. Surely he would have an opinion on what happened. He says so much however his major posts are lists and he is very non committal. Surely someone else sees this! While my arguments up until this points haven’t been the clearest if you think I am town why do you think I hardly left Killings side. Intuition has to could for something and it has. He was not able to answer why he was so non committal his only reply was On September 07 2012 00:01 KillingTime wrote: First, if you feel I have been non-committal or weak in my play then I can only apologise and say this is my first game and I am definitely learning as I go. That is not an excuse, but it is the most likely explanation for "weak" town play on my part. I think Kreb, Drazak & Sonic are town, everyone else I am currently suspicious of. This is not really a reply, for me it is an excuse that anybody could use. Also his case on stutters is due to kush/xatalos pushing the conversation away from him. His one major non listed case was based on association. On September 06 2012 17:02 KillingTime wrote: Ok, having re-read through a bunch of filters today I think we should lynch Stutters695 - Yes his posting/lurking has been/is reason enough to lynch him. But, reading back through filters there has been way to much redirection of discussion away from him as a good lynch - particularly from kush. ... Now, this does not mean that both Kush & Xatalos are mafia if stutters flips - but that is WAY too much subtle redirecting of a target for me. Stutters is as scummy as anyone at this point, if he flips we will have some strong targets for d3. If we lynch him and he is not mafia, town is in a bad spot - but we are in a bad spot regardless of who we lynch if they flip and are not mafia (kreb has convinced me of this with his case against kville that there is no point not going for lurkers.). I would also like to point out that kush seems to be following his meta as well. Admittedly meta talk in a newbie game is a little hard but you would think rolling scum would mess with how they would act. Also if you notice stutters filter and replies I will tell you why he is likely town. He did have a slow start day one. Considering drazak kville weetee cubu all had slow day one starts two who are confirmed town and one who I pointed out seems confirmed town to me this is no reason for a scum read. What you should look at is the quality and logical reasoning in his filter. You should read the whole post but in particular. On September 06 2012 18:28 Stutters695 wrote: Please explain what part of my play has been more scummy than someone who has been trolling the thread and not contributed anything? ##FoS Killing Time I need to go through his filter but this isn't the first time he hasn't taken a stance on issues while posting "reads" that don't actually commit longterm. While kville did show up as town in the lynch he was an easy lynch, scum would want to lynch the slightly harder targets so they have a free win by the time they get to end game. For example if we lynched stutters it would be easy to convince town to lynch kville. If anything if we spent another day with him in the game we would have been frustrated into lynching him. Also he returns fire on killing time and is way more active engaged asking questions giving responces. He questions kush and drazak on the issues and responds on a manner I can only call logical. His filter isn’t filled with fluff so I suggest you read it for yourself as everything he says comes across in a pro town questioning way. Now I am going to transition to drazak. His vote on kush only caused confusion and was purely a slug fest with no real reasoning behind it. After being “caught out” as such by kville and stutters plus the kush argument he backs out and doesn’t comment. He hardly provides good reasons for his mistakes, Also he has a bad habit of calling kville useless. However enough of that I will provide posts and reasons. On September 06 2012 18:03 drazak wrote: My accusation wasn't out of nowhere, I made a read based on what happened, I reasoned, carefully. I saw that Kush wasn't scumhunting day 1. If you're not scumhunting, you're not furthering town, if you're not furthering town... you're mafia. I then saw kush slipped by overreacting to me. Feel free to poke holes in my actual reasoning instead of calling me scum for making a reasoned accusation. Kush wasn’t scum hunting day one? I’m a freaking unicycling unicorn. First his Kush isn’t scum hunting read is based on this. On September 05 2012 11:55 drazak wrote: I'm bringing this post, and Kushm4sta into suspiscion. It seemed like you didn't actually think Cubu was mafia. Your reasoning (and lack there of) makes it clear that you weren't voting because you thought Cubu was mafia, but because you thought there was a slim chance of it and that then Thrawn would be a townie. T I think you might be mafia trying to lead town into bad lynches. Why would you vote people who you don't think are mafia if you're town? I think you're mafia, Kush. ##Vote Kushm4sta But then his day one post was this On September 03 2012 21:24 drazak wrote: My best read is cubu. He's tried to throw suspiscion, he stopped posting when he had nobody to lay thin accusations on. Cubu has posted only with low content, low value posts, he hasn't had any real reads other than discussing statistics and how afk I was. I think Cubu isn't a great D1 lynch though, which is why he doesn't currently have my vote, if he continues to have such low content posts tomorrow, he will certainly have my vote. Cubu is someone we can try to analyze tomorrow and figure out if he really is mafia, we can't analyze kville, and if we wait to lynch kville it's not going to get better, we don't even have a baseline for him. To that point, I'm someone you can analyze D2, you have several posts by me, with fairly decent content. Even if kville isn't mafia, he isn't helping anyone. In addition, I felt that going for cubu would just be bandwagoning at this point, which as town doesn't help me at all, espescially considering I do have my own unique thoughts, which I have shared with everyone. The whole “even if kville isn’t mafia he isn’t helping anyone” isn’t this the same thing? They are both talking about lynching the worst townie however drazak covers himself better (something a scum would do over a town) refering to the bandwagon and trying to convince people he is town by pointing out he is town not just assuming everyone knows he is town. “which as town doesn't help me at all” This would be obvious if he was town. Anyway these are my thoughts on Drazak. Because of the lengh of this post I will save Krebs analises for my next post probably (if I find anything) My intuitive thoughts are “he has seemed town but he is saying some strange stuff that I need to look into.” | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
On September 07 2012 21:20 Kreb wrote: Same to kush: I'd like to see an explanation of your townread on imcasey. Ask and you shall receive: He is a null read to me bordering on town. 1Town get bored, mafia do not. I think it is less likely for mafia to quit the game like WeeTee did. 2WeeTee's posts fit his meta, which doesn't prove him town, but does clear his bad posting style of suspicion. 3Iamcasey really does seem like inexperienced town trying his best. Are there people who seem more town than him? yes Are there who seem more scum than him? Definitely yes. | ||
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JacobStrangelove
Australia1572 Posts
On September 07 2012 07:40 Kreb wrote: Im barely reading this thread anymore since Kville came back. Its all just a shitfest last 2 pages. Cant we just put the thread on hold until he gets kicked out and resume after? (however this would be unlikely to be said my mafia now that I think about it) and the fact he missed my case on imcasey. This guy seems as town as you get. I guess I should recheck sonic and xatalos and even kush while I am at it (although considering my scum reads I find this unlikely). But I strongly Suggest from my post above either a kililng or drazak lynch. It's 1 am though and I need to sleep for the morning so I must depart now. Although if I can't sleep I might be back. Just incase I die in the night before I post sonic seems more town than xatalos but he seems to also have it out for me. | ||
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