On September 02 2012 20:01 marvellosity wrote:
and Messages! I am now L's right hand dudette.
and Messages! I am now L's right hand dudette.
just going to requote this so it doesn't get lost.
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marvellosity
United Kingdom35817 Posts
On September 02 2012 20:01 marvellosity wrote: and Messages! I am now L's right hand dudette. just going to requote this so it doesn't get lost. | ||
marvellosity
United Kingdom35817 Posts
It says that the person to listen to is the cop. | ||
marvellosity
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marvellosity
United Kingdom35817 Posts
We should lynch ghost though. Case to follow after dinner. | ||
marvellosity
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marvellosity
United Kingdom35817 Posts
On September 03 2012 03:38 HiroPro wrote: I want to lynch Zentor. It's pretty simple: on day 1, Mr. Zentor actually tried to argue that Palmar was scum. He wasn't Risen, who simply disliked Palmar. His reasons were complete nonsense - Palmar is scum because he claimed VT and is trolling. Show nested quote + On September 01 2012 05:56 MrZentor wrote: Let's assume that you, the reader, are a vanilla town. (If you're mafia say "I am not mafia in your next post.") Good. You just got your pm from Zephirdd. It's says that you're a detective, in green, so it's obvious that you're just a vanilla town. Why would you ever post in that in the thread? One of the many uses of the vanilla town is to act like a meat shield for the blues. You want scum to think you're blue. You want them to kill you instead of killing a blue. Now you're scum. Zephirdd has given you the information that the vanilla townsperson is a "detective". Now all you have to do is to allude to being a detective in the thread of free town cred. (yayyyy!!) So why did Palmar say what he said? And why is he acting so ignorant? On day 2, Zentor initially votes for s&b after several votes have been cast (myself, marv, Node). However, later when it looks like ghost might be a possibility (after Shady voted for ghost), Zentor switches votes onto ghost with reasoning that basically says "s&b's play too illogical to be scum". But what's missing? Any reason for lynching ghost. Let's lynch obvious scum. Let's kill Zentor. ##Vote MrZentor Hiro - to the bit I bolded: ironic, isn't it? | ||
marvellosity
United Kingdom35817 Posts
On September 03 2012 03:43 HiroPro wrote: Show nested quote + On September 03 2012 03:42 marvellosity wrote: On September 03 2012 03:38 HiroPro wrote: I want to lynch Zentor. It's pretty simple: on day 1, Mr. Zentor actually tried to argue that Palmar was scum. He wasn't Risen, who simply disliked Palmar. His reasons were complete nonsense - Palmar is scum because he claimed VT and is trolling. On September 01 2012 05:56 MrZentor wrote: Let's assume that you, the reader, are a vanilla town. (If you're mafia say "I am not mafia in your next post.") Good. You just got your pm from Zephirdd. It's says that you're a detective, in green, so it's obvious that you're just a vanilla town. Why would you ever post in that in the thread? One of the many uses of the vanilla town is to act like a meat shield for the blues. You want scum to think you're blue. You want them to kill you instead of killing a blue. Now you're scum. Zephirdd has given you the information that the vanilla townsperson is a "detective". Now all you have to do is to allude to being a detective in the thread of free town cred. (yayyyy!!) So why did Palmar say what he said? And why is he acting so ignorant? On day 2, Zentor initially votes for s&b after several votes have been cast (myself, marv, Node). However, later when it looks like ghost might be a possibility (after Shady voted for ghost), Zentor switches votes onto ghost with reasoning that basically says "s&b's play too illogical to be scum". But what's missing? Any reason for lynching ghost. Let's lynch obvious scum. Let's kill Zentor. ##Vote MrZentor Hiro - to the bit I bolded: ironic, isn't it? I don't get it. well, practically MrZ's only possible defence is that his play has been to scummy to be scum. | ||
marvellosity
United Kingdom35817 Posts
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marvellosity
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1) How he pressured Hapa for his vote on BM24. Any of you reading the thread know that I had a back and forth with him about it, and it's basically because it didn't seem his view was from a particularly townie mindset - remember ghost had BMB24 marked down as scum in his s/s, but was pressuring Hapa for voting for him? It doesn't add up. 2) He had a really weak vote on Mementoss. And he doesn't give an actual proper reason for his post until he's made several more posts in between. On September 01 2012 08:36 ghost_403 wrote: Alright, let's see what happened while I was gone. For reference, MMToss' defense So far, nothing has convinced me to take my vote off of MMToss. His defense against the people voting him amounted to "the people voting for me are lazy/stupid, oh and here's someone I think is scum". I really can't see a town player posting his defense in such a way. By the way, Shady's not scum. See Newbie Mini Mafia XXV. He's not acting like that in this game at all. At this stage, we don't even really know why ghost's vote is on Mementoss in the first place. There's a misplaced conviction. He finally gives reasons for the Mem lynch (which amounted to him rehashing a Mementoss post), probably when it dawns on him he can't just vote for no reason. 3) Mementoss picked up on ghost's long post and I followed up on it. There are things that don't make sense from a townie mindset, like where he voted s&b, but if s&b was town, I somehow got scummier (even though he was voting him too) 4) In that same post, he says this: "Looks like S+B probably fakeclaimed miller. Ballsy play on his part. This pushes Hiro to town read, and confirms what I suspected on S+B." Confirms what he suspected? How can it confirm something that was never really brought to the thread? :/ Earlier he said his play had been 'a bit off', and also: On September 01 2012 03:49 ghost_403 wrote: Still not quite sure of what I think of S+B. I haven't seen a scum player make a legit fakeclaim for a long time, so based on the metagame, I'm inclined to believe him when he claimed miller. However, you're right, his posts have been a little bit off. That's why I really want him to chime in on the MMToss situation. All these points aren't massively strong by themselves, but added altogether I think it shows that ghost is scum. | ||
marvellosity
United Kingdom35817 Posts
On September 03 2012 04:35 ghost_403 wrote: Show nested quote + On September 02 2012 04:00 marvellosity wrote: sigh mementoss. i think you do a decent analysis of ghost's post, although I don't lean as heavily scum as you do. More errors of logical thought. Because I'm so self-centred, just look at the bit on me. It went basically like - marv leaning town, especially because he's accusing strongandbig, but if s&b is town then marv moves the other way. Then the kicker - ghost votes strongandbig. So from a townie perspective he's thinking the same as me, but somehow I have to be correct to let this be townie? how does that add up? so if strongandbig flips town, then logically speaking ghost is scummy, if his attitude towards me is consistent, right? My bit on you was more based around the fact that you were one of the first people to immediately jump on the S+B bandwagon. Your post voting him was literally the first post after Hiro voted S+B. If S+B had been town, I would have been more suspicious of you, because to me, you were one of the people spearheading the vote, at least at the time. Does that answer your question? but if there's a strong case on someone, then a good townie will help push it. that attitude fosters the idea that townies should never push for anything themselves, because if they're wrong, they're scummy. It's the people who just meander around things that are the scummy ones. | ||
marvellosity
United Kingdom35817 Posts
to 1) I meant that you were pressuring hapa FOR voting BMB24, someone you were at the time thinking might be scum. Sense makes does not to. 2) is called unaccountable bandwagoning. So who do YOU want to lynch? | ||
marvellosity
United Kingdom35817 Posts
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marvellosity
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On September 03 2012 05:14 HiroPro wrote: Show nested quote + On September 03 2012 05:00 marvellosity wrote: Hiro/hopeless/fuba, what do you make of ghost? I don't think he's scum. His responses to the stuff against him seem fine to me. We've had similar reads and reasoning on some players (Shady, fuba,) even though I've never mentioned any of it in thread. His reasoning seems ok. alright. From his defence quite a bit of it comes down to his activity. gonna go over it and see if i'm ok with that. | ||
marvellosity
United Kingdom35817 Posts
On September 03 2012 05:32 ghost_403 wrote: Marv, I'm having a hell of a time trying to read Zentor. What do you think about him? After all, you've caught him as scum before. I'm just not sure. His play is scummy by any standards, but it's Zentor. When I caught him (and let him go) in NMM2 or whatever game it was, it's because I caught him in a trap and he squirmed like scum. Here there's just been downright bad play. | ||
marvellosity
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marvellosity
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##Vote: MrZentor | ||
marvellosity
United Kingdom35817 Posts
kinda unnecessary. Scum really did openly just vote to lynch a townie then O.o ##Vote: Risen | ||
marvellosity
United Kingdom35817 Posts
On September 04 2012 05:43 HiroPro wrote: sigh fuba you haven't realized by now? I'm L. I'm a cop and I also got a lot of other cool powers. It should be fairly obvious now why all of the messages tell you to listen to me. yes. this whole last 2 pages or so has been quite ridiculous. | ||
marvellosity
United Kingdom35817 Posts
On September 04 2012 07:04 Node wrote: Partially just going with my gut after reading filters, partially I don't see the scumteam somehow failing to kill the claimed cop up to this point, partially "he's red, kill him" seems way to damn easy for this game, partially this is just a way more interesting option. ##vote HiroPro ... you think Risen has played townier than Hiro? | ||
marvellosity
United Kingdom35817 Posts
On September 04 2012 14:11 mkfuba07 wrote: I'm incredibly suspicious of Node. His general lurkiness as well as his sudden vote for HiroPro drew me to his one page of filter. For starters, I'd like to draw attention to these two posts, which I feel were his most substantive posts regarding the SnB lynch. I actually previously felt like they were his most substantial posts of them all (particularly the first one). It seemed to have been well thought out and insightful. Show nested quote + On September 02 2012 11:05 Node wrote: On September 02 2012 10:54 HiroPro wrote: On September 02 2012 10:53 MrZentor wrote: Na, I don't think scum knew he was the traitor. No I don't think so either. But they would have thought he was town and that's where it gets interesting. I disagree strongly. I think s&b's claim was made at least partially to alert scum that he was a traitor. Put yourself in Kira's position -- you're probably aware that you have at least one supporter hidden among the detectives. Who looks most likely? I'd have to imagine it's the person who claims they're going to start appearing red at some point to checks. Show nested quote + On September 02 2012 11:30 Node wrote: On September 02 2012 11:24 Shady Sands wrote: On September 02 2012 11:21 Risen wrote: On September 02 2012 11:20 Shady Sands wrote: On September 02 2012 11:17 Risen wrote: If I can find something that tells me sab is traitor, that means anyone else can as well. I swear I'm the only one who puts effort into these games. From a game I watched called Bureaucracy. The second I saw HiroPro call sab out for lying/inconsistency I reread sab's filter and the green red thing clicked in my mind so I searched for traitor in the TL search bar. Lo and behold. + Show Spoiler + On July 22 2012 14:05 slOosh wrote: Awesome on two counts! I am a Crazed Employee - basically a delayed 1 shot vig, and I targetted Foolishness last night. As you know I've been spending a majority of my time figuring him out and was wavering because he had a good case on BM which I agree with, yet chose to do exactly that a case on BM. I was torn on trying to figure out meta and trusting people's reads, but VE's grilling brought out cold hard, in-thread contradictions that I understand and trust. Probulous I'm assuming is some sort of kingmaker (?) - and he made VE king to lynch BH. Prob has also said that Chezinu is some sort of rolecop: Show nested quote + On July 22 2012 10:47 Probulous wrote: Time to read that Ole foolish filter. I don't think Chez is scum. He worked out my role but never outed it. I think he can check the names of roles because he correctly emphasised the first three letters of mine to me and only me. Prob is it clear from your role name what your ability is? Because from a minion perspective, the knowledge of someone's role is hard to use - even if you knew someone was blue you can only submit the name to CEO kill list, and outting something like that isn't a town thing to do in the first place. But I also thought he was some sort of messenger role? Show nested quote + On July 22 2012 03:23 VisceraEyes wrote: On July 22 2012 02:20 Palmar wrote: I haven't caught up since last night. Did Chez ever claim messenger role? The way Chez does, yes. And he sent me a message so... I forgot who said it (was quite recently) that scum and town may have mirror/similar abilities. Sandroba was a clear instance of a town messenger - use ability to find out scum. Chezinu or whoever is sending seems like they are sending messages of confusion (house of Chezinu etc.). In any case I still have to do more rereading & filtering in light of the new information influx. Lastly, I think that the traitorous employee should claim. As I understand it it's like a self-aware miller who wins with town but numbers count with scum. Since mafia have to kill all town they are torn having a "confirmed town" alive and wasting their 1 KP on a useless kill (doesn't count to their wincon), and have lost their means of instantly killing him, plus the possible additional benefits of seeing scum strategies and redacted knowledge through outed PMs can be huge. + Show Spoiler + On August 31 2012 17:27 strongandbig wrote: Good morning, everyone! So I've been reading some discussion about this from past games, and I've decided to come forth and claim. I am a self-aware miller. I'm going to use this post to explain myself and my claim. Hopefully I'll do it well, but I'll also do my best to respond to questions, as well as just to establish my townieness through my play. So first off, why claim now? Well, it's clearly now or never. Millers claiming after they're checked are completely useless - in fact, they're worse than useless since they give actual scum cover to hide and potentially waste a lynch. Second, why claim at all? Well, the main reason is that everyone in this game is a detective. Usually, the main miller mechanic is that the presence of millers puts some doubt on a DT check and people actually have to discuss it. In a game with 30 people and one or two each of detectives and millers, it's pretty unlikely that the miller actually gets targeted with a DT check. (Unless you have a troll host who makes like the best three townies non-self-aware millers, thank you very much BC.) But, like I said, in this game everyone is a detective. I know VTs don't get to actually make DT checks - I guess Zeph wasn't lying when he said he would send everyone in the game a copy of the VT role PM. However, in a setup where everyone is a "detective", I expect that there will be a large number of roles which actually do have DT checks. This means that it's much more likely than normal for a miller to get DT checked. So, it's more important than usual for millers to claim early in this setup. If a non-claimed miller gets DT checked and returns scum, it just fucks with the town and could potentially waste an entire day's lynch. It's much better for the millers to claim on day 1 and then show they're town through their behavior. Like I said before, people claiming miller after day 1 are actively playing anti-town and should be destroyed. So finally, what should this mean for the town and for me? Well, it obviously puts an onus on me to show I'm town through my play. That's fine, I'm going to do my best to live up to that. It is a very exciting time for my experiment, but I can and will post as much as I can from work, as well as both before and after work. I'm also going to do my best to find scum (although historically I tend to be more successful at judging other peoples' cases and less at making my own, but that's why we have other players to judge my cases as well). For the rest of the town - it means you have to think critically about what I say. Am I pushing scum objectives? If so, lynch me. Am I promoting useful discussion that gets info out into the thread, or am I promoting trolling, spam, and ragefests? If any of the latter, lynch me. Are my cases good or bad? If they're bad, don't lynch me - bad cases =\= scum. Just tell me why you think they're bad, and see how I respond. It also means you have to think critically about what other people are saying about me. Putting myself out as a miller should naturally draw attention to me, and that's something scum could try and piggy-back or bandwagon on. If people say I'm scum, think critically about their cases and their motivations. So let's go town! PRE-EDIT: I should be a little bit more specific. I don't know whether checks on me will return scum or town - all I'm told is that some checks on me will return scum instead of town. I speculate that there are different types of DT check in this game and I am only a miller to some of them - maybe L has special DT powers, and one of their advantages is that they are immune to some or all millers? I also don't know whether it's likely to have more than one or two millers in such a small setup, but having a lot of DT power roles could mean we have more millers than normal. If there are other self-aware millers, they should claim asap as well, or else never claim at all. PRE-EDIT TWO: I AM IN EUROPE. This means I will be asleep for deadline; it's at 4:30AM my time. I'll do my best to compensate for this during the days here. See any similarities? I wasn't going to say anything, though, because I wanted to see whether a save attempt would come, and guess what? Come it did. Had it built any real steam I would have pointed this out and we would have gotten the sab lynch. Now we have scum who tripped over themselves to try and save the traitor. I'm not even convinced there wasn't a scum guy on sab waiting for one of us to unvote sab so they could come in and be "convinced" as well. I think the clear lynch is going to be among the list of people who were trying to save sab, though. What makes you think the scumteam would want to *save* a possible traitor? I can't even tell if this is a real question or not. This is a real question. Let's say scumteam saves a traitor by going all out and all voting for an innocent townie. Townie flips green. Wouldn't the town then proceed to lynch the traitor the next day, and the proceed to lynch the rest of the scumteam for that? Now think about it this way: scum always needs to build towncred. But building towncred via bussing means sacrificing a contributing scum member. Instead, why not sacrifice a traitor whom the team can't communicate with, and whom the town already suspects? Well, for starters, it's entirely possible that s&b was, in fact, communicating with the scum team. Every cycle, you can check a player by PMing all hosts. If that player is Kira, you gain rights to communicate with him and his allies. If that player is the Head Investigator, however, he will be notified that you were stalking him. It's also possible (though less likely) that Kira had some method of checking if someone is a traitor, which the claim would've baited out quickly. They appear to be meant in an attempt to help town, but if given even 5 minutes of thought I feel like most town would see following this course of reasoning to be full of unsupportable WIFOM. Trying to gain anything from the speculation of whether SnB found Kira, and then on top of that speculating on how the scum would react to SnB's impending lynch is a complete waste of time. This may not point to Node being scum, but it does pretty much indicate that these posts were useless despite appearing to be meaningful contributions (at least to little old newbie me). They also support Risen's strong pursuit of that line of reasoning, and as we know he was scum. As for its insightfulness, it's not particularly insightful to give reads from Kira's point of view when you are Kira. He could support the misleads that Risen was encouraging without actually sticking his head out while appearing townish at the same time. Most significantly, there's also the fact that earlier in the game he says that he doesn't see anything scummy about Hiro, then votes for Risen. In the most recent vote, when we're all diving on top of Risen, he suddenly finds Hiro to be more scummy. He doesn't explain this, or at least tries to explain it extremely poorly in his single post from yesterday. Why is he suddenly not believing HiroPro when he states in his reasoning for the MrZentor lynch that he's "...going to have to go with L and Hiro on [that] one."? His reads are completely inconsistent, his reasoning is incredibly lacking, and he is supporting discussion that doesn't lead to catching scum. Node is scum. ##Vote Node I agree with a lot of this case. But why would Node draw attention to himself by voting Hiro when it was clear a switch off Risen wasn't going to happen? | ||
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