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On September 06 2012 13:04 Bill Murray wrote:
weird interaction between kobe and austin there, too, and coupled with him slipping in his wording? potential scumteam
uhhhhh do you know anything about basketball
lakers starting 5:
Steve Nash PG
Kobe Bryant (#24, nickname is the black mamba) SG
Metta World Peace SF
Jordan Hill PF
Pau Gasol C
until dwight howard gets off injury at least
he's jjust making cute basketball references. steve nash and kobe are literally on the same team.
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DrH posts a lot, and does so without necessarily putting in much thought. Since he's been all over the place, it's very possible that this could be a simple mistake. Let us hear what he has to say.
goodkarma's posting has been very lacking compared to when he was townie. Grush hasn't posted in forever, and Rewok's
On September 06 2012 12:47 Rewok wrote:
Just so I can add something to the thread: If Otto gets vigi'd tonight and turns up red, Hap's next on my list. If Otto turns up green, Hap's in the clear. He seems like the next most logical focus after Otto.
Is blunt and meaningless. Why not shed some light on the most recent cases? Both you and Gravan have had enough of "yay look me at, I'm contributing! "
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EBWOP: sniped. I started post and went to do some shit and finished it without refreshing.
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@Bill Murray
I fail to see anything special on that interaction. Could you be more specific?
Also, I think I have a decent case on Maverick. He clearly showed that he isn't worried about scumhunting. For the third time, can any clear-thinking soul respond? ffs
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I've been reading into Hapa's case and filtering BM some more and I agree that things are off:
Misinterpretation
On September 06 2012 07:42 slOosh wrote:
Everyone shut up about Ottoxlol and let him cool down. There are much better targets, i.e. people who lurked the whole time after dropping their singular vote. I.e. DYH. And that maverick guy comes to mind.
I dropped maverick's name because I recall his post was very vague, and hesitant to actually call out names.
The other posts that mention Maverick are:
On September 06 2012 07:50 grush57 wrote:
K.
Medics on Toad and BC and BM.
Vigi kill in the pool of scummy people/ scummylurkers.
Ex: Ottox, Maverick, Do you has.
On September 06 2012 07:35 Bill Murray wrote:
Forumite's defense is really good. He's off my scumlist.
I just filtered mav. TBH, maverick is looking more like town.
i mean he's openly defending himself vs me and Dr.H
Seems really inactive, however, so I'm not calling off a potential vig shot there... *looks at austin*
Though, I'd still rather someone shoot Gravan, at this point.
On September 06 2012 07:54 BlackMamba24 wrote:
sloOsh says people who dropped a vote and then lurked are scum. That's exactly what he did. Ottoxlol is indefensible. Why are people still talking about Maverick? My attack on him was a misunderstanding, pay attention.
There are three misinterpretations in this post.
One I've pointed out here.
The second is that he makes it out like there was a long drawn out futile discussion on Maverick, when in fact the only mentions of him are the three quotes above. Hardly "people still talking".
Third is that he spins it in a way to suggest we are not paying attention. None of us actually mention BM24 as the cause of our reads or anything like that, yet that is how he takes it. It doesn't matter if it was a misunderstanding or not, because the reads are independent of what he thinks.
Contradictions
On September 06 2012 07:56 BlackMamba24 wrote:
and why is sloOsh parroting Bill Murray's reads when Bill Murray's reads are incomprehensibly bad
This refers to my post saying DYH and mav should be shot (1st quote in this post)
On September 06 2012 07:35 Bill Murray wrote:
I just filtered mav. TBH, maverick is looking more like town. On September 06 2012 09:06 BlackMamba24 wrote:
we should lynch doyouhas too, this is a post that was definitely posted in the scum qt a few times my intuition is flaring up like crazy over this
Claims he holds:
He says BM has bad reads, and I am parrotting them. BM thinks mav is town, which I'm not parroting. BM and I both think that DYH is scum and so does he. However BM has bad reads and I am parroting those bad reads.
Flat out contradictions that only serve to discredit our posting, even though he agrees with them.
I thought that his weird play was just an extra portion of paranoia and something of a personal playstyle. However, a closer look shows that he does have a driving agenda of discrediting people and misrepresenting situations. His vehement attack on BC / defense of Mattchew and subsequent questioning of BC's alignment post flip also support this.
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yeah that was all really messed up, sorry. I was angry because it seemed to me that everyone was ready to just let ottox slide, you never really gave any reason for anything you said. You voted for Mattchew pre-palmar (still doesn't give you any town cred) and then didn't post until the night comes. I don't really think you're in a position to point fingers at people for lurking considering that.
What's wrong with questioning BloodyC0bblers alignment, do you know his alignment? Because I don't.
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@ DrH - I'll drop it, that's pretty much all I needed from you - same type of defense as in DN + I'm willing to chalk an inconsistency up to active play. Might be something worth looking into if somehow you're alive on Day 4, but otherwise, I'm satisfied.
Still think you should reconsider ottoxlol, or atleast try to look through his filter through a townie perspective once. What you call "not pushing his reads" looks a lot like him getting lost and frustrated in an argument.
Lastly, I still want miltonkram to get shot up by a vig tonight. No changing that.
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I missed BM clearing Maverick or forgot about it until later, I don't know if I mentioned that. Sloppy play. Doesn't mean anything.
Anyway, are you gonna push to lynch me now?
It's funny so many people are sour on me attacking BC (back when no one believed him lol) when he says himself he would have done the same thing.
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On September 06 2012 13:41 Hapahauli wrote:
@ DrH - I'll drop it, that's pretty much all I needed from you - same type of defense as in DN + I'm willing to chalk an inconsistency up to active play. Might be something worth looking into if somehow you're alive on Day 4, but otherwise, I'm satisfied.
Still think you should reconsider ottoxlol, or atleast try to look through his filter through a townie perspective once. What you call "not pushing his reads" looks a lot like him getting lost and frustrated in an argument.
Lastly, I still want miltonkram to get shot up by a vig tonight. No changing that.
I did and it's a lot harder to justify as town than scum
Even if he is caught up in his arguments, there is no town-aligned explanation to how he intentionally ignores the answer to his own questions to continuously push his agenda. That indicates, to me, that he has a forgone conclusion and is not interested in actually thinking about it.
I even sat for a moment cause some of his first questions seemed pretty pro-town to me but it's not like scum don't try their hardest to sound pro-town when they can.
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On September 06 2012 13:40 BlackMamba24 wrote:
yeah that was all really messed up, sorry. I was angry because it seemed to me that everyone was ready to just let ottox slide, you never really gave any reason for anything you said. You voted for Mattchew pre-palmar (still doesn't give you any town cred) and then didn't post until the night comes. I don't really think you're in a position to point fingers at people for lurking considering that.
What's wrong with questioning BloodyC0bblers alignment, do you know his alignment? Because I don't.
You are right with the lurking - I got caught up with my little thing with DYH and haven't been lucid with my full reasonings behind each accusation. I do not however think it warrants misinterpretation or discrediting like that. There is nothing wrong about questioning BC's alignment, but you flat out said the Mattchew thing is alignment-inconclusive. This is beyond what I consider "healthy" paranoia, but that may be because you know what scum BC is capable of.
Additionally I still don't see where you say "my read of Maverick was a misunderstanding", nor how that is the logical flow of reading the related posts.
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On September 06 2012 13:37 Z-BosoN wrote:
@Bill Murray
I fail to see anything special on that interaction. Could you be more specific?
Also, I think I have a decent case on Maverick. He clearly showed that he isn't worried about scumhunting. For the third time, can any clear-thinking soul respond? ffs
Just read it.
Your premise is that he's defending himself more than he's scum-hunting, and I don't necessarily think that's a scummy trait. As a newer town player, it's pretty easy to only enter the thread when you get attacked.
In fact, he's pretty obsessed with defending himself whenever he makes a contribution - take a look at this:
That being said- I'd like to draw a little bit of attention to the first voter for whom I feel like I can make an actual observation on- Toadesstern.
The reason I want to focus on that is just because of the speed at which he strikes out just makes me wonder why that's beneficial from a town perspective? And I'm just wondering if he just wanted to try to promote chaos right away?? Also- consistently attacking other posters seems to be a trend....
This reads as really townie to me - it's not a good "case" by any means, but he shows a trend of sounding legitimately offended that people are voting for him.
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Thank you!
Being defensive is a general trait everybody has. But my main problem is that he said S&B had a red flag and was suspicious. Wouldn't a townie, even a newer one, be more insistent on this? I can't think of myself saying someone is really suspicious only to not bother attacking him at all..
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On September 06 2012 13:44 BlackMamba24 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 13:41 Hapahauli wrote:
@ DrH - I'll drop it, that's pretty much all I needed from you - same type of defense as in DN + I'm willing to chalk an inconsistency up to active play. Might be something worth looking into if somehow you're alive on Day 4, but otherwise, I'm satisfied.
Still think you should reconsider ottoxlol, or atleast try to look through his filter through a townie perspective once. What you call "not pushing his reads" looks a lot like him getting lost and frustrated in an argument.
Lastly, I still want miltonkram to get shot up by a vig tonight. No changing that. ... Even if he is caught up in his arguments, there is no town-aligned explanation to how he intentionally ignores the answer to his own questions to continuously push his agenda. That indicates, to me, that he has a forgone conclusion and is not interested in actually thinking about it. ...
I don't think "ignoring the answer to his own questions" is scummy. Like it's pretty clear he's not thinking, but that's not a scummy trait. Pushing one's agenda also isn't scummy. Also, having a "foregone conclusion" reads to me as raving-insane confirmation bias.
The #1 thing I'm considering is if he's playing with extra information (known player alignments as mafia). To me, there's no way this is the case. If he knew Mattchew was scum, he wouldn't defend him after the lie was confirmed. It's not a "too scummy to be scum" defense - it's more of a "mafia would not think like this considering their information advantage" defense.
Looks like we're reading into this completely oppositely, so it's probably best to leave it at that.
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On September 06 2012 13:56 Z-BosoN wrote:
Thank you!
Being defensive is a general trait everybody has. But my main problem is that he said S&B had a red flag and was suspicious. Wouldn't a townie, even a newer one, be more insistent on this? I can't think of myself saying someone is really suspicious only to not bother attacking him at all..
If anything, I think newer townies are generally more passive in pushing their reads. They are generally lost and don't know how to push a case. I'd be more worried about this if he pointed a red flag against SnB and hadn't pursued it for several days.
The one thing that really gives me a town read on him is his trend of drawing suspicion to himself. He constantly acknowledges the FOS's against him and does so in the most confrontational way possible against his assailants. This strikes me as much more townie than mafia.
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I'd disagree on the towniness of Mav's opening post:
On September 04 2012 13:17 Maverick32x wrote:
Hey guys- got a chance to catch up and I have a couple thoughts.
First- Not totally comfortable voting Mattchew at this point.. I understand the potential for lying about the role claim.. and I'm not a big fan of role claiming in general... HOWEVER- I'd like to reiterate BlackMamba's post that said something to the tune of "ITT- Townies arguing with Townies" because I find that people are so quick to blame each other for stupid stuff that we end up wasting the first couple days with literally zero reason for voting someone besides "They drew a picture"....
That being said- I'd like to draw a little bit of attention to the first voter for whom I feel like I can make an actual observation on- Toadesstern.
The reason I want to focus on that is just because of the speed at which he strikes out just makes me wonder why that's beneficial from a town perspective? And I'm just wondering if he just wanted to try to promote chaos right away?? Also- consistently attacking other posters seems to be a trend....
First is hesitation to actually call out names - he points out several things he has problems with but doesn't attach names to them, but remains vague. With his read on Toad, it isn't direct but roundabout. It invites suspicion on him but doesn't actually make any claims for himself. He has in mind things that are scummy tells "constantly attacking other posters", but doesn't draw a conclusion, yet still posts it so that others can draw conclusions from them.
You see that all throughout his filter. "I find *this trait* suspicious, but I'm not going to call out anyone who is guilty of this as scum." I'm comparing it to his Newbie Game where he is getting into the nitty gritty of things, and even his opening post On August 29 2012 01:34 Maverick32x wrote:
If there is room.. I'd like to get in on this... work has been REALLY slow lately and I'm done with class for a couple months, so figured I'd play a couple games : )
suggests he is eager to play and he has the time to do so.
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Oh geezus Mav isn't new? Looks like he has a couple of games under his belt that I'll have to look into a bit. All my "newer player" things should go out the window.
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Yea, I considered the new player stepping into the big stage being timid, but his history includes Space Station (big, themed game), and Aperture (the craziest game of all time), and you can see him standing his ground, speaking his thoughts, making stances. So he isn't timid, he isn't busy, he isn't afraid to do what he wants but this game shows a contradiction to his normal town play.
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Well looking at Mav's filter in Aperture Mafia (Townie)...
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319120&user=174863
Maverick is also pretty lurky in the early game, so I don't think his activity is indicative of his alignment. He really doesn't make too many significant contributions until mid-game, and he shows somewhat of a similar mentality to this game - slight pokes and prods, and an objection to an early vote.
I'm not sure completely what to make of his "OMGUS" stuff against people who FOS'd him. It still reads as slightly townie to me (calling attention to himself), but he has yet to respond to any significant case against him.
I really haven't seen anything in his filters that blatantly goes against his gameplay this game. Leaning town on him, but I hope to get more outta him in the next few days.
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On September 06 2012 14:32 slOosh wrote:
Yea, I considered the new player stepping into the big stage being timid, but his history includes Space Station (big, themed game), and Aperture (the craziest game of all time), and you can see him standing his ground, speaking his thoughts, making stances. So he isn't timid, he isn't busy, he isn't afraid to do what he wants but this game shows a contradiction to his normal town play.
Well Mav definitely isn't timid this game, considering that his main suspicions are those who FOS'd him. In Aperture, he doesn't really stand his ground until mid-way through the game, and coasts until people cast significant suspicion on him.
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On September 06 2012 13:27 Z-BosoN wrote:
goodkarma's posting has been very lacking compared to when he was townie. Grush hasn't posted in forever, and Rewok's
Yeah this is true. With that being said, all of the players in this game whom I have played with in past newbies seem to have become lees vocal and less inclined to take a leadership role as we have done in the past. So I am unsure if this is alignment indicative or if it is just a by product of the new environment. As the game progresses I hope to see more from us all and it may become easier to make a meta read on those I have played with later.
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EPT
