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On August 15 2012 11:33 goodkarma wrote:
Regarding lynch all lurkers:
Yeah. Got me last game as scum with that but tbh I would have been just about as active day one as town. I still don't really have day one figured out, so don't expect me to go into hyperactive mode for day one this game. [/QUOTE]
Because people care about your detailed feelings on when you like to post.
Now would be a great time to discuss policy.
Let's discuss your policy of making an """"""""""""""""""introductory"""""""""""""""""""""""" post trying to be all helpful. As we know, doing this at all gets a call from the SCUMHUNT POLICE who want details of your movements for the last five years inclusive.
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Shady, can you explain your reasoning for initially jumping all over solar? It could be that you, as mafia, know he is town and are taking advantage of solar's emotional reactions by drawing them out even further and immediately sidetracking everyone onto solar's case.
Still waiting for several people to post up... I'm gonna take a break for an hour or so and I will join back in once more people have posted.
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solar you really need to clear up your post formatting, especially concerning the quote feature
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On August 15 2012 11:44 thrawn2112 wrote:
solar you really need to clear up your post formatting, especially concerning the quote feature
can't because of no edit rule
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On August 15 2012 10:40 Shady Sands wrote:
FYI
These are the players that haven't posted yet:
Darth
GK
Golbat
Jhuyt
Z-BosoN
Ochrow
YourHarry
As a reminder, please link your filters and roles from prior games. Thank you.
Shady I can't believe you are doing this again as it would have got you lynched in XXII if you didn't have a rock solid town claim.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________
That being said,
HI GUYS! I am super excited to be playing mafia with you. I live in Australia so my posting times will be different than yours. please don't use this as an indicator of alignment. I have some things to do today. but I will be posting fairly regularly etc. As for policy lynches; they are unnecessary if there is a vibrant discussion occurring. You fail to achieve vibrant discussion with OMGUS and Policy talk.
GLHF <3
Here is my SCUM Filter from XXII.
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On August 15 2012 11:45 Solarsail wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 11:44 thrawn2112 wrote:
solar you really need to clear up your post formatting, especially concerning the quote feature can't because of no edit rule
obviously, but in the future maybe?
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Heading out for the night.
Great job keeping up the pressure on Solarsail.
+ Show Spoiler [Thrawn] +On August 15 2012 11:18 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 10:35 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 10:32 thrawn2112 wrote:
Most of Solarsail's posts so far have contained quite a bit of emotion which has made his points less articulate than they otherwise would have been. Solarsail, if you are in fact town then I'm sure all the other townies would greatly appreciate it if you weren't so quick to use profanities and typing in all caps, it distracts from whatever arguments are being made. What's even more interesting that Solarsail didn't even try to defend himself from this accusation: Only scum focus on trying to survive. Town focuses on scumhunting. Why would you devote your first post to trying to show participation? Instead, he answered with sarcasm and an OMGUS vote. Most of the discussion right now is about solarsail. I don't think there's anything wrong with this because so far his posts haven't seemed very useful but we have still yet to hear from several players. He could easily be town and just reacting to everyone immediately jumping on his case as soon as the game starts. In that case it would be easy for the mafia players to roll in later and pile more suspicion on solar and therefore away from themselves. As far as I could see most of the drama was based on your post asking why he is devoting his first post to appearing as town rather than use it to scumhunt. I think it's worthwhile pointing out that at the time of his original posting there were only a few D1 posts so far and not much to scumhunt on. I think right now we are still in a waiting game, people that haven't spoken up yet need to!
In addition to questioning why Solarsail is devoting his first post to appearing as town, we should also be asking why he made this comment:
Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out.
Right after Stutters made the short comment about Hapa's XXIII postscript to open the game.
+ Show Spoiler [mkfuba] +On August 15 2012 11:19 mkfuba07 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 11:08 Solarsail wrote:On August 15 2012 11:01 mkfuba07 wrote:On August 15 2012 10:55 Solarsail wrote:On August 15 2012 10:47 thrawn2112 wrote:On August 15 2012 10:37 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 10:32 thrawn2112 wrote:
Most of Solarsail's posts so far have contained quite a bit of emotion which has made his points less articulate than they otherwise would have been. Solarsail, if you are in fact town then I'm sure all the other townies would greatly appreciate it if you weren't so quick to use profanities and typing in all caps, it distracts from whatever arguments are being made. Quick question: If you've never played with Solarsail before, how would you know whether his points are less or more articulate than they could be? Seconding your point on the profanities though. I wouldn't know if they are more or less articulate than however he may have been in previous games, but for this purpose of this game it's making his posts a little unclear. Unclear could just mean unclear OR mafia, but the end result is that I pay more attention to his posts. O WOW IM BEING PAID ATTENTION TO ITS ALL I DREAMED OF Let's go with the meta-meta-analysis of tiny comments without adding anything new, that's sure to help. When Shady Sands stops the 'thing' he has going I'll vote for who you're "paying attention to" because that's an objective measure appreciated by town players everywhere. Alright, I feel like Shady was overreacting too, but there needs to be a starting point for discussion. Your reactions have been completely emotionally based and by virtue of not being pro-town, appear scummy by default. Might his posts have been a bit contrived? Yes. From what I can see, he's scumhunting no matter what. Whether he actually believes that your first few posts were scummy, your follow-up posts aren't helping town in any way. You say you'll vote for someone when someone else makes a case for them based on reasoning, so start trying to do that instead of screaming at Shady. > Drops in from ceiling > Why, yes, I can see some of argument A but I can also see some of argument B, aren't I so fair and reasonable good sirs > Let me give advice to you, for I am a kind and generous spirit ................ ...... .. . . . Dude, you're not helping your case. I didn't give anything that Shady had said any weight until you followed up his questions with overly emotional fluff and OMGUS. Your responses don't answer the questions he's raised, and provide nothing in the way of new content. While my read on you still says panicked townie, you have to cool off. Either respond to his questions seriously or make another case, or you're not helping town. Step it up. Playing the sarcastic martyr wins you no points.
Great job keeping the discussion on track. Other than Solarsail, any other reads at the moment?
@ Solarsail
Note that when I began the entire train of questions at Solarsail, I was never directly accusing him of being scum:
On August 15 2012 10:01 Shady Sands wrote:Solarsail, why post this? Show nested quote +Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out.
He immediately responded with hostility:
On August 15 2012 10:10 Solarsail wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 10:01 Shady Sands wrote:Solarsail, why post this? Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out. Because I've played one game of Mafia in my life, it was on another forum and that happened. But I forgot that "Newbie" in the title means that everyone is a fucking veteran and doesn't need to be told anything. I have no idea what a good post is, please enlighten me on how I can make completely flawless first posts with zero information.
This is what I want everyone to focus on. Why would Solarsail do this?
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My view on policy lynch. It is called policy lynch, for a reason. It may not always lead to lynching the most scummy players in that specific game, but it strongly encourages scums and town to participate in all games across the TL forum. We don't want lurking to be a viable strategy for any player, scum or town. It enforces players' responsibilities to participate.
Having said this, lynch all lurkers has been fruitful in XXIII and could have worked in XXI as well. So, overall, I think it is not a bad strategy to follow.
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To summarize my meta, in the first 2.5 games, I am quick to make accusations and switch my vote players with little explanation. I decided to change my meta in game 3 where I drew vanilla townie. I played more conservative to avoid suspicion. I am not sure which meta I will choose this game 
HOW ABOUT
NOT DYING
SMILEY FACE
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On August 15 2012 10:15 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 10:10 Solarsail wrote:On August 15 2012 10:01 Shady Sands wrote:Solarsail, why post this? Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out. Because I've played one game of Mafia in my life, it was on another forum and that happened. But I forgot that "Newbie" in the title means that everyone is a fucking veteran and doesn't need to be told anything. I have no idea what a good post is, please enlighten me on how I can make completely flawless first posts with zero information. Stutters. Stutters said something perfectly townish which you tried to soft twist into scummy play. Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 09:13 Stutters695 wrote:
I'm not going to quote the entire post, but I'd strongly recommend the town to read Hapahauli's post following XXIII(http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=58#1160). Was watching that game while I was waiting for this to start and based off of his scumhunting track record it contains some good advice. Since it's probable we will mislynch we need to get as much out of Day 1 as possible. Then you say: Show nested quote +Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out. You're basically accusing stutters without accusing him directly. Why?
Ok, I don't get this at all. Care to elaborate on what what exactly the case here is?
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@Z-boson, posting filters is pretty easy. Why not.
@Shady Sands. You are accusing Solarsail of being hostile? You think scums are more likely to respond with hostility?
Thrawn on the other hand is busy posting fluffs and WIFOM statement like "It could be that you, as mafia, know he is town and are taking advantage of solar's emotional reactions by drawing them out even further and immediately sidetracking everyone onto solar's case."
##Vote Thrawn
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On August 15 2012 11:54 Solarsail wrote:Show nested quote +To summarize my meta, in the first 2.5 games, I am quick to make accusations and switch my vote players with little explanation. I decided to change my meta in game 3 where I drew vanilla townie. I played more conservative to avoid suspicion. I am not sure which meta I will choose this game HOW ABOUT NOT DYING SMILEY FACE
@Solarsail I strongly recommend that you as either town OR scum lift the quality of your posting. You are not doing yourself any favours by acting this way. Even though the case on you is weak, your over-reaction to it is Incredibly suspicious. I don't think this is a dead set scum read however, as you could equally just be a panicked townie.
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On August 15 2012 11:43 thrawn2112 wrote:
Shady, can you explain your reasoning for initially jumping all over solar? It could be that you, as mafia, know he is town and are taking advantage of solar's emotional reactions by drawing them out even further and immediately sidetracking everyone onto solar's case.
Still waiting for several people to post up... I'm gonna take a break for an hour or so and I will join back in once more people have posted.
Basically I read this:
Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out.
And it didn't make sense to me. Why would Solar make this post if he's town? It's not pro-town to post on which style a scum might or might be playing. Then I read his post in context of the first post that stutters made, and it seemed like Solar is trying to soft accuse stutters--because stutters post was short, and didn't hold any information that disagrees with the general direction (as telling people to read a guide is about as plain as someone can get.)
The second possibility here, aside from soft-accusing stutters, is that Solar is trying to look participatory. He states this himself, later. Why would a townie try to look participatory from his first post onwards? No one has accused Solar of anything yet, so why the desire to look like he's contributing (as opposed to actually saying something of substance instead of guessing at what the scum must be feeling?)
Both these possibilities lead to a scum Solarsail.
## FoS Solarsail
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OK.
##Unvote
##Vote Solarsail
"Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out."
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I think solarsail is scared ...
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On August 15 2012 11:59 YourHarry wrote:
@Z-boson, posting filters is pretty easy. Why not.
@Shady Sands. You are accusing Solarsail of being hostile? You think scums are more likely to respond with hostility?
Thrawn on the other hand is busy posting fluffs and WIFOM statement like "It could be that you, as mafia, know he is town and are taking advantage of solar's emotional reactions by drawing them out even further and immediately sidetracking everyone onto solar's case."
##Vote Thrawn
I agree here. Thrawn's first post on the SK was extremely WIFOM:
+ Show Spoiler [Thrawn on SK] +On August 15 2012 09:55 thrawn2112 wrote:
Does anyone have experience playing in a game where a serial killer was a possible role? If there did end up being a serial killer, how big a role did they play and how high would you rate the importance and achieveability of sniffing them out early? In other words, would it be a worthwhile use of the town's time and investigation to try to figure out who, if anyone, is the serial killer? I can see how it would be very important to find out who is SK early on, but I also can see how it might be way more difficult than figuring out who is mafia, and thus not a good use of time. One distinction between the serial killer and the mafia is that the mafia are in communication and will be working together while the serial killer is separated from both town and mafia. Any player who is suspected to be not of town affiliation could either be mafia or SK, so while in either case they are a good target for lynching, having knowledge of their actual role would be way more valuable than just an uninformed hit on a supposed non-town player.
If there isn't an SK, then this line of discussion is a complete waste of time and we would be doing the mafia's job for them, which is why I asked if anyone has experience in games with an SK so that we all can get a better idea of what the risk/reward anaylsis should be on determining whether or not and when to focus on a potential SK.
Concerning shady sand's post, this is my first game so I have no previous history to reference.
Why is Thrawn so concerned with getting town's attention on thinking about a SK, when SK is actually a bigger threat to scum than it is to town?
His response to my question was yet more WIFOM:
+ Show Spoiler +On August 15 2012 10:11 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 09:59 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 09:55 thrawn2112 wrote:
Does anyone have experience playing in a game where a serial killer was a possible role? If there did end up being a serial killer, how big a role did they play and how high would you rate the importance and achieveability of sniffing them out early? In other words, would it be a worthwhile use of the town's time and investigation to try to figure out who, if anyone, is the serial killer? I can see how it would be very important to find out who is SK early on, but I also can see how it might be way more difficult than figuring out who is mafia, and thus not a good use of time. One distinction between the serial killer and the mafia is that the mafia are in communication and will be working together while the serial killer is separated from both town and mafia. Any player who is suspected to be not of town affiliation could either be mafia or SK, so while in either case they are a good target for lynching, having knowledge of their actual role would be way more valuable than just an uninformed hit on a supposed non-town player.
If there isn't an SK, then this line of discussion is a complete waste of time and we would be doing the mafia's job for them, which is why I asked if anyone has experience in games with an SK so that we all can get a better idea of what the risk/reward anaylsis should be on determining whether or not and when to focus on a potential SK.
Concerning shady sand's post, this is my first game so I have no previous history to reference. Why are you so worried about the SK? SK is a bigger threat to scum than to town. I am not really worried, but am trying to learn from other people's experiences if there is any reason to worry. I thought I was pretty clear that I was undecided on the importance of SK, and that if SK is unimportant in D1 it's a complete waste of time to worry about it. My current opinion is that it is something to worry about, but not on D1. Therefore I'm not going to continue posting about it until something happens along the lines of way too many unexplained town deaths.
Note the following sentence:
I thought I was pretty clear that I was undecided on the importance of SK, and that if SK is unimportant in D1 it's a complete waste of time to worry about it. My current opinion is that it is something to worry about, but not on D1.
Then he says he won't post about it until it becomes obvious there is an SK. Basically Thrawn is fluffing up his posts here with a mostly useless discussion. I'd like to see Thrawn commit to a case. Until then,
## FoS Thrawn2112
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Alright, heading off for the night. Good luck everyone.
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Did we just catch 2 scums??
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EPT
