EPTwhat do you think about them mementoss?
PTP3 - Pikachu's Revenge - Page 24
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
what do you think about them mementoss? | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On August 21 2012 07:17 Mementoss wrote: Wat. Where? I haven't seen anything that could be classified as "actual discussion" of scum candidates. Also scum claim is almost as thrown around of a term as meta. Both useless I've seen meta used rather effectively. Ask anyone who was in Mad Men how Marv knew to shred me after coaching/obsing all my newbie games. There were a few things that could be built into a case throughout the course of things, but I wasn't exactly lynch target #1 until Marv noticed my play was wrong. As far as I'm concerned, people who dismiss the "softer" forms of evidence (it's all circumstantial anyways) out of hand bear some watching. | ||
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Barbiero
Brazil5259 Posts
Think think THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINK If this is PTP everyone is a power role. When a town player is a power role, what is he? Blue. If a non-town player is PR, what is he? red or black. "unless someone was an asshole and made a vanilla role, everyone is a blue". Of course I am looking for the freaking scum -_- also you are spilling bullshit. You have no attack ability. Shoot me if you do. I dare you I DOUBLE DARE YOU MOTHERF-- anyway I see your point VE. We're lucky CountDropula isn't here, I'd be yelling at any dayvig to shoot him in the balls; However, leave it to after he is unbanned. You can always hope someone will vigi him. On the mewtwo thing... What if I told you A player could have picked for himself? We aren't told which pokemon we are during the pick phase. Whoever is mewtwo could very well have picked for mewtwo himself and then receive the role himself, right? | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On August 21 2012 07:17 Mementoss wrote: Wat. Where? I haven't seen anything that could be classified as "actual discussion" of scum candidates. Also scum claim is almost as thrown around of a term as meta. Both useless I think I was talking quite a bit about Draz, Kurumi and BC so far and I brought up stuff you could talk about, even if you disagree with it. S&B posted a case about Drazerk. Wiggles posted something about BC that I considered to be nice and worthy of discussion. BC actually had some nice (and some not so nice imo) answeres. I've got my issues with him but he, unlike the majority in here, was actually able to pick & quote the few posts that were discussion-worthy instead of focusing the fast amounts of bullshit we've got so far. There's definitly stuff in this thread that is worthy of discussion. | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On August 21 2012 07:23 Zephirdd wrote: On the mewtwo thing... What if I told you A player could have picked for himself? We aren't told which pokemon we are during the pick phase. Whoever is mewtwo could very well have picked for mewtwo himself and then receive the role himself, right? It seems like mewtwo would have been preconceived by decon. I expect that one of the roles didn't get used, possibly given to mewtwo as a fake claim so someone else could confirm them and say "yep, I made that one". | ||
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Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On August 21 2012 07:20 strongandbig wrote: well i think drazerk is scum and toad thinks kurumi is scum. what do you think about them mementoss? I think they are both town playing in a questionable way (see: Bad), in some sort of trollish form, that they think is going to provoke reactions and discussions from players, in turn they will try to analyse from there. But by playing in this way, they just look like scum, and lose a lot of town credibility. I'll quote both cases in question for the people who didn't read the thread / forgot. Drazerk: + Show Spoiler + On August 20 2012 16:59 strongandbig wrote: Now for a little bit of seriousness: I think Drazerk is scum. Two reasons, with subpoints: (1) The "trying to out KP roles" thing. Now, IDGAF whether or not it's a good idea for town - that's not the point right now. The point is, Drazerk was clearly just doing stuff for the sake of doing stuff. (1A) He hadn't thought through whether or not outing KP roles is a good idea for town or not before he started doing it; you can tell because his argument with me evolves over the course of the discussion, and he relies on the "kenpachi assumption" of balanced type distribution, but not until after Kenpachi suggested it - implying he hadn't originally been making that assumption. Additionally, he clearly assumes the existence of factional KP until later on. (1B) His method of trying to out KP roles sucks ass juice. Like, we know nothing more than we did previously about whether or not Toad has a KP role than we did before, all we know is that when Drazerk (fake?)claimed a KP role, toad (fake?)claimed a KP role right back. There's no way that his troll method gains reliable information, either as scum or as town. Drazerk is also smart enough to realize this. (1C) Okay, so what? Just doing stupid trolly shit doesn't make Drazerk town. As he himself has informed us, his town meta in this kind of heavily themed game is to do stupid trolly shit and not be useful to town. I've played enough of these games with him to recognize that. My argument isn't that he's scum because he does stupid trolly shit. He is scum because he does stupid trolly shit and then, when called out on it, tries to make up arguments for why it's pro-town. Honestly, I was shocked when I posted "sooo, why are you trying to out kp roles" and he responded with an actual srsbsns reason rather than just more trololol. Intermission: Some Choice Quotes from Drazerk lolwut that's interesting... doesn't look that way to me. Okay then let's do that! (2) The Solarbeam. This is a pretty silly reason and you should think much more about the first part, but I think this one is still interesting enough to post. I think Drazerk actually is Venusaur, and he has charged up energy for his solar beam. (2A) Think about it for a minute - why choose solarbeam as his fake dayvig thing on VE? It makes no sense - it's a two-turn move, and if present in this game it would definitely require a turn of charge-up in order to be able to fire later. Plus, there are much more appropriate moves to choose. Shadow and Flame was an unblockable day- or night- vig shot with one use. Fissure, Horn Drill and Guillotine are all more appropriate choices for this than solarbeam; so is hyper beam. And from the pregame, Drazerk obviously knows enough about pokemon to realize that solarbeam isn't the best choice for analogy. (2B) Why does this make him scum? Well, it's the inconsistency. He tries to persuade us that outing KP roles is pro-town, while purposely charging his KP role in a way that keeps it secret. If he really believed in that "track the KP, track the scum" thing then he'd put his money where his mouth his, imo. There's also the general scummy-scumscum stuff he posts, like his "I always look scummy so I need to be vigged" and his "I don't defend myself" and his whole little "anti-meta" thing. But the problem is, I don't think those are "alignment indicative" from him, since I've seen him do them before as town. They're just "being-a-terrible-player-indicative." Oh and also ##vote: Drazerk The case sure points out a lot of questionable quotes, and shows his spam, but it doesn't really seem like mafia motivation to me. First post of the game, fake ability, is this really worth it for scum? To reveal themselves so obviously, to pull out one blue role, in a game where everyone has some sort of power? It just doesn't make much sense to me. He is all over the place, but I have never played with him, by the way people are talking about him, he just seems like an impulsive player. I could be wrong, and worse comes to worse hes a decent candidate, I don't think its worth tunnelling him however. Kurumi: + Show Spoiler + On August 20 2012 23:07 Toadesstern wrote: Thoughts on blasting Kurumi instead? Check out the following conversation for a sec: 1) Is basicly the reason why I kept saying I want to hurt Drazerk with a pointy stick. He kept on posting for the sake of posting. Fine we're still on day-1 but he's overdoing it a lot. If what he's doing is acceptable as contribution than mafia will have an easy time blending in doing bullshit posts like his. I consider this post Kurumi did to be incredible hypocrytical btw. 2) Is Drazerk acknowledging the fact that he / they're both posting for the sake of posting, which is weird to say the least, but that's besides the point right now. 3) is the really important one. Kurumi states "I just like posting.". That's incredible defensive. I would understand this if someone else were to accuse him like "dude, you're totally posting for the sake of posting and nothing else, that's scummy!" but there was no such thing. Drazerk got in the thread acknowledging that both Kurumi and he HIMSELF did that. If that was suppossed to be criticism Drazerk criticised himself with that post as well, which I consider to be pretty unlikely so to me it just read as some random bullshit. To Kurumi however it apparently reads as sincere attack and he felt the need to explaining his actions. Why so defensive Kurumi? Same thing. It seems like just spamming and just looking for a reaction. I mean, why as scum would you play so carelessly. He could be trying to just derail the whole thread. Why would he connect himself to another player who had huge thread presence at the time and was also under heat as scum? I personally think neither are scum, but both are bad town. Overall, there is a possibility they are scum, so voting them isn't horrible because they are just shitting up the thread, but I don't think they are. I think our scum is lurking in the shadows. On that note: ##Vote: Mattchew | ||
imallinson
United Kingdom3482 Posts
One thing I noticed, between the spam, is a hell of a lot of role discussion, talk about kp, etc. I think everyone has missed a very important point in all this. These are pokemon we are dealing with and last I checked most of them have more than one power. Because this is PTP it wouldn't surprise me if most people did have more than one power. Add to that the fact that all the role talk has been about standard mafia roles it seems like no one is really thinking outside the box on the roles. The real question is do they think it's the case a not talking about it for strategic reasons. I'm not a fan of misdirection in mafia from a town perspective because it normally only serves to make scum hunting harder. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On August 21 2012 01:55 VisceraEyes wrote: /confirm Sup? I missed some shit I see...rereading and will post thoughts shortly. Draz....god damnit Draz. On August 21 2012 04:57 Toadesstern wrote: I kind of was expecting a little more after your first post. Come on. Thread is half dead, we need more people who are willing to post without trolling the shit out everyone. Even if your thought's so far are very basic and not thought through. There's no reason to not post them and share some thoughts early on d1. That's going to get discussion started way better than another dude claiming medic d1 or whatever else we had so far. On August 21 2012 06:58 VisceraEyes wrote: Grush has never been interested in playing a game of Mafia that I've ever played in with him. I want him out of my town. ##Vote: grush Looks to me like you're doding the issue again. Why is are you not willing to talk about your thoughts so far? | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On August 21 2012 07:39 imallinson wrote: I've been out all day so I apologise for not posting earlier. One thing I noticed, between the spam, is a hell of a lot of role discussion, talk about kp, etc. I think everyone has missed a very important point in all this. These are pokemon we are dealing with and last I checked most of them have more than one power. Because this is PTP it wouldn't surprise me if most people did have more than one power. Add to that the fact that all the role talk has been about standard mafia roles it seems like no one is really thinking outside the box on the roles. The real question is do they think it's the case a not talking about it for strategic reasons. I'm not a fan of misdirection in mafia from a town perspective because it normally only serves to make scum hunting harder. Most roles can be equated to standard mafia roles. You can deal KP? Your a vig role. You can protect? medic role. You can edit your posts? Okay, this one doesn't exist. Short of everyone claiming what role they created (Which might be useful, but a great way for scum to fuck with us), we have to use terms that everyone else will understand. Once we get through a round of Night actions, (assuming decon\greymist use the ability names) we'd be able to refer to specifics. | ||
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
I made a role that kinda hard brakes claiming what we made roles for so lets never ever do that. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21171 Posts
On August 21 2012 07:14 VisceraEyes wrote: If there's no support for it, then I'll entertain the cases put forth. There isn't much more to say on the matter, and anyone who dwells on this should be put under scrutiny. It's a vote like any other vote, I've given my reasoning for it - it's up to you guys to convince me that your read on random player is better than my seething hatred for grush' playstyle. I can tell you without a doubt that attempting to bully me for it is not going to work. Posted again because you apparently missed it Toad. The case on Kurumi is that he's Kurumi. The case on Draz is inflated WIFOMY bullshit that consists mostly of setup speculation. The case on BC is...that he said the same thing as you? Last time I checked, agreeing with someone isn't a scumtell, so until he elaborates on his read of Dirk I'm reserving judgement on BC. I'm not reluctant to talk about my thoughts, I just don't have many yet. If this doesn't satisfy you, then my sincerest of apologies. Hopefully my future contributions are up to your standards. | ||
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
On August 21 2012 07:50 Kenpachi wrote: kinda wanna kill Drazerk because i dont wanna take chances. Doesn't the same logic apply to you?  | ||
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
Yeah. ##vote Drazerk | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On August 20 2012 10:17 Drazerk wrote: I'm with wiggles there are super powers out there that prey on certain information being known (Steamship 4 shot sniper comes to mind) So the following - No pokemon names No Type No role information No claiming medic to save scum Anyone who does this will probably just be shot down or turned green On August 20 2012 21:30 Drazerk wrote: Also to go one step further I'm a bug type so fire / flying / rock types - Bring it Herp derp? I don't know if anyone else noticed this (I have to reread some of what I missed) but I saw this and figured it has to be pointed out. Unfortunately it's Drazerk, so to be completely honest my read of Drazerk doesn't change here. | ||
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imallinson
United Kingdom3482 Posts
On August 21 2012 07:44 Hopeless1der wrote: Most roles can be equated to standard mafia roles. You can deal KP? Your a vig role. You can protect? medic role. You can edit your posts? Okay, this one doesn't exist. Short of everyone claiming what role they created (Which might be useful, but a great way for scum to fuck with us), we have to use terms that everyone else will understand. Once we get through a round of Night actions, (assuming decon\greymist use the ability names) we'd be able to refer to specifics. I didn't really mean calling roles different names just because of PTP. I'm perfectly fine calling KP role vig, protect role medic and so on. I'm talking about roles that would never be in a normal game of mafia and thus don't have a standard name. I'm pretty the role I created doesn't fit into any normal mafia role and I'm sure there a lot of other cases like that. As for role calling I think it's a terrible idea, especially in PTP because you can make up a fake role for yourself just as easily as the role you created for someone else. I do agree with you that things should become clearer after night 1 because we will at least get some info on the roles that are in play. | ||
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
On August 21 2012 08:05 wherebugsgo wrote: Herp derp? I don't know if anyone else noticed this (I have to reread some of what I missed) but I saw this and figured it has to be pointed out. Unfortunately it's Drazerk, so to be completely honest my read of Drazerk doesn't change here. I'm an exception to my own rule because at some point I need to be taken down for the good of the town | ||
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Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On August 21 2012 08:09 imallinson wrote: I didn't really mean calling roles different names just because of PTP. I'm perfectly fine calling KP role vig, protect role medic and so on. I'm talking about roles that would never be in a normal game of mafia and thus don't have a standard name. I'm pretty the role I created doesn't fit into any normal mafia role and I'm sure there a lot of other cases like that. As for role calling I think it's a terrible idea, especially in PTP because you can make up a fake role for yourself just as easily as the role you created for someone else. I do agree with you that things should become clearer after night 1 because we will at least get some info on the roles that are in play. But how do your thoughts on roles and PTP mechanics help us catch scum? | ||
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imallinson
United Kingdom3482 Posts
On August 21 2012 08:12 Mementoss wrote: But how do your thoughts on roles and PTP mechanics help us catch scum? It doesn't really, I'm just pointing out a big missing piece in all the role talk so far. Honestly I don't think role talk day 1 will be helpful in this set up. On August 21 2012 08:12 Drazerk wrote: I'm an exception to my own rule because at some point I need to be taken down for the good of the town But is that point now? | ||
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imallinson
United Kingdom3482 Posts
One thing is that it makes me suspicious of the people who were role claiming. | ||
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