EPTMad Men Mafia
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
| ||
|
s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
i've been reading the thread and am not too far from being up to speed. I'll have some time tonight to catch up and post. | ||
|
s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
I want to talk about VE first. I think Talis was on to something when he pointed out this post: On August 04 2012 01:38 VisceraEyes wrote: Because I'd rather hunt for scum than defend myself, so I masoned a veteran in as a shortcut to establishing my innocence with him if he's town so he can smack down anyone (Toad) who thinks I'm scum for stupid-ass reasons. Also if he's scum, I wanted a private line with him in case he felt like telling me all about it in PMs. So far he hasn't. :/ Him instantly outting me wasn't something I'd considered. I figured he'd talk to me about it first. I have a long way to go in understanding Bugs' play. I don't buy the reasoning for masoning Bugs at all. I have a hard time believing that VE, who is keenly aware of how his interactions with bugs go, would still go ahead and mason bugs for the purposes of establishing innocence. I don't see how he can be so confident that bugs will read him as town if all they end up doing is arguing (and hence become pretty inscrutable to each other), which is likely. The second part, about him catching scum bugs in PM-land, is similarly dubious. I'll go look for some quotes, but VE is on record for being extremely critical of his town play (read: finding scum). The impression I'm getting from him lately is that he has no confidence in his scum finding ability. So we have someone who is struggling with finding scum asserting he may be able to nail one of the more difficult to catch scum players in PM's. Doesn't match. I'd like some other input on this before calling for his death, but it doesn't look good to me. Next would be BioSC He went through all of day 1 with basically no scum reads. The way I saw it, he made one 'bad play' read in grush, and then a token case on prplhz before hopping on the wagon. His scum reads in DBZ were all of the 'bad play' variety. I'm all for killing him. Glasse seems like a good lynch to me too. On August 03 2012 22:43 Glasse wrote: I don't get it, can you explain your reasoning? I'm as town as one can be. what? On August 03 2012 23:21 Glasse wrote: I can't really tell you, I haven't even done anything yet so anything I would say would be completely useless. Can't claim anything other than being green. So you will have to take my word for it. Who is scum? No clue, I don't like this wherebugsgo guy though. ...exactly. Also this, which has been pointed out already: On August 05 2012 10:11 Glasse wrote: -.- It was to be expected. Only other mention of prplhz prior to this was definitely in a negative light. This shitting on everyone after he flipped green is scummy. Hassybaby Another person who came out of day 1 with basically nothing to show for it. I found a half-hearted indictment of Talis, and a crap vote on bugs. One of the main reasons he votes bugs is for fake annoyance. Errandor's logs would be a pretty crucial piece of evidence that would inform this point, and Hassy says as much. To me, a town player waits to see these logs. Instead, he went forward with the vote, which makes me think he has no conviction behind his reasons-> they are contrived. The PM's with Toad do nothing to help his case. Toad already pointed out how he did a lot of agreeing. I liked this bit a lot: [03.08.2012 21:12:07] Hassy: Eran's "test" reeks of Bill Murray [03.08.2012 21:12:27] Hassy: the sort of "NOPE IT WAS A TRAP AND YOU FELL FOR IT YOU'RE SCUM" [03.08.2012 21:12:40] Hassy: but in fact it was a pretty stupid trap and doesn't mean much [03.08.2012 21:13:29] Erik: the thing about eran is that I actually liked his earlier posts [03.08.2012 21:13:44] Erik: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668¤tpage=13#249 [03.08.2012 21:13:48] Erik: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668¤tpage=13#258 [03.08.2012 21:13:52] Erik: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668¤tpage=13#259 [03.08.2012 21:13:57] Erik: all posts I like [03.08.2012 21:14:18] Hassy: oh I agree. I'm not calling him scummy, jsut....stupid I guess Here's Hassy hunting for stupid. What I see here is Hassy stopping short of calling Eran scum until he sees what Toad thinks. Then it's 'oh jk he's stupid that's all.' I'm good with killing Hassy today too. | ||
|
s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
On August 06 2012 10:32 talismania wrote: You have the most suspicious posts and post timing when it comes to deadlines I swear. But to state the obvious instead of implying it: Did anyone take a vig shot last night? I kinda doubt that scum shot grush. I think they double-stacked sloosh. Also, I was roleblocked. what do you make of that? | ||
|
s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
I'd like to know why you thought it was unlikely Sloosh was going to be protected. | ||
|
s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
what is your read on Toad right now? | ||
|
s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
| ||
|
s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
On August 05 2012 08:06 XsebT wrote: Sorry for being quite inactive this first day (party friday gone wild). Now finally back with a laptop.  I've been reading through the thread, and I'm stuck on a vote on either prplhz or wgb, though a day one lynch is always based on very fluffy arguments. Initially wgb was overreacting to the accusations against him (wtf self vote), plus his now very defensive posture - scummy behaviour in my book. Prplhz has since been fucking up quite badly... lol. Not sure how to take it. No matter if he is scum or not, he is not playing to his team's advantage. I can go on board with this idea, though I'm veeery tempted to vote wbg coz of that self vote. Toadesstern will of course also be very high on my list, should prplhz flip town - considering how hard he is pressing for this lynch. I'm asking because of this. His scum hunting since then has negated what you saw as an egregiously hard push to get a townie lynched? | ||
|
s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
 but yea, I think VE would be a decent lynch today. we approached it differently but our conclusions were close enough. what does everyone else think about a VE lynch? | ||
|
s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
VE, before you said you wanted to avoid random lynches this game, and now you are suggesting we should just lynch masons until we hit red? Tell me also why you find Erandorr scummier than Hassybaby. | ||
|
s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
| ||
|
s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
| ||
|
s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
I'd really like to kill scum today. I don't want us to sleep on VE as a lynch target. Talismania has built a good case: read it. I've posted a bit on him: click Does anybody feel strongly that VE is town? If so I'd love to hear why. __________________________________________ In that post of mine that I linked, I named a slew of other targets. We have waaaaay too many people in this game skating by with little to no contribution. There is probably scum in this group, and some of them have done legitimately scummy things. I want to know why we aren't talking about lynching Hassybaby soon. He has done basically nothing to help town. He voted Bugs because he thought his annoyance/aggression was faked, but then didn't wait for the PM logs to see if they corroborated with his interpretation. His PM's with Toad show him avoiding issues until Toad tells him what to think. How long does Glasse get to live? If he's town then he is one of scum's favorite people. He won't make reads, even when prompted. He asserts he is town, but admits he hasn't done much. He came in after prphlz' lynch and upbraided town for choosing wrong (classic scum tell), despite being on record for thinking prpl was scum. Even if he changed his mind, he did nothing to stop the mislynch that he saw as so obvious. | ||
|
s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
who do you want to lynch today? | ||
|
s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
I'd like to point something out: On August 04 2012 01:38 VisceraEyes wrote: Because I'd rather hunt for scum than defend myself, so I masoned a veteran in as a shortcut to establishing my innocence with him if he's town so he can smack down anyone (Toad) who thinks I'm scum for stupid-ass reasons. Also if he's scum, I wanted a private line with him in case he felt like telling me all about it in PMs. So far he hasn't. :/ Him instantly outting me wasn't something I'd considered. I figured he'd talk to me about it first. I have a long way to go in understanding Bugs' play. On August 08 2012 04:10 wherebugsgo wrote: I am completely unsure what to think of VE. At times I have had town reads on him (given the fact that he was asking for reads and he was making sense, to his response to Erandorr) but then other times I've had scumreads, albeit for some reasons you could pin on me as well (for example, apathy to the activity level). Usually when activity is low you see VE scrambling for people to post but I don't see it much here. I also can't tell whether his logic is making sense because he's town or because he's trying to blend in. I agree with his reasons for pressuring Erandorr. However Erandorr is special because as scum he's super lazy. At this point he's giving up unless I die so it may truly be that he is scum, but I find the much more likely explanation to be that Erandorr is town and just wrong. I don't think as scum he'd push the lynch so ridiculously hard especially if his reasons are all terrible. (and at this point he just seems too stubborn to admit it) So, no idea really how to read VE: I've never been good at reading him. Erandorr I definitely think is town. Toad is in the same boat as VE for me. I'm not good at reading him. I still think Xsebt is scum based on the tone of his posts (and he disappeared after I voted him) but with no pressure my read on him hasn't developed. Also based on my read throughs it's really strange how much snb buddies Erandorr. Also note how quickly the VE wagon built up: if he flips town then we should strongly consider examining the players who were on both wagons, and if he flips scum we should consider a bus possibility. (that is, if he ends up dying). I'd rather switch the vote to someone else, though, i'm not about to vote VE. VE's reasoning for masoning Bugs really seems like a lie to me. I just don't buy that he thinks he can establish his innocence with Bugs when he knows better than anyone how they tend to argue and get on eachother's nerves. I'd still really like us to lynch VE today, but I'd be fine with killing off a useless townie/lurky scum too. My preference would be Hassy or Glasse. | ||
|
s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
| ||
|
s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
| ||
|
s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
On August 04 2012 01:47 VisceraEyes wrote: I don't ignore people when I'm town. I only ignore people when I'm scum. Write that down. VE, help me out a little here yea? I'd like to know what your scum read on Zeph is all about. | ||
|
s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
The problem I have with Erandorr stems from what bugs says about him. He calls him scum in all the games they are in together, regardless of evidence. It doesn't surprise me therefore that in this game, where he has a blue-ish role, that it was targeted at bugs. If he was a vig, he'd have shot him. If he was a DT, he would have checked him. If he was mason...etc etc. This would all be done regardless of information in the thread that ran counter to his read on bugs. | ||
|
s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
Eran sees bugs out VE as mason-> decides it's anti-town->masons Bugs to test if he will double up->gets outed->kill switch engage for two anti-town (as he sees it) plays maybe you don't like his trap card, but it makes sense in a convoluted way. Eran also talked about what would happen if he didn't get outed, so he did consider it a possibility. It seems weird to me as well that a scum mason would be so keen on being potentially outed on day 1. I really hope I'm wrong here, but I have a feeling he'll flip town. | ||
|
s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
| ||
|
s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
| ||
|
s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
Toad's dealings with Errandor- Toad has an early town read on Errandor, which he has shared from his own notes. This read is pretty unfailing. He was never on any list, was never openly accused. They agreed on WBG. It's evidenced throughout his entire filter. Now have a look at these posts: + Show Spoiler + On August 05 2012 00:12 Toadesstern wrote: Calling it now: WBG or Prplhz Talis Zephirdd Ghost403 + some 5th guy, maybe the smurf idk the logs between WBG and Eran would indeed give a good idea about wether it's WBG or Prplhz. A scum list which WBG is on. On August 05 2012 00:33 Toadesstern wrote: Nah could actually be both being mafia as well. It's more like "one of them has to be mafia" I actually considered Prplhz to be the better lynch candidate yesterday but as people seem to think WBG is scummy like I do and at the same time don't seem to agree on prplhz (except for WBG) I'm a bit more okay with lynching WBG first. I guess I'm paranoid right now because there's so much stuff that makes no sense  If WBG really flips town we at least know his assertion on prplhz being 95% sure mafia was honest, while people like me think the same way. If WBG flips mafia I'll have to check wether WBG was just trying to gett off the hook or doing something else. Scum read reinforced, expresses preference to WBG in the prpl/WBG either/or scenario. On August 05 2012 02:41 Toadesstern wrote: I still want to see the log between Eran and WBG. If at least one of you two guys is town (I highly think so) there is no reason not to post it and it would maybe help us figure things out no matter of WBGs alignment. And I'd rather have it posted before one of you is dead so that we can confirm it's the real thing. Highly thinks either Eran or WBG is town. On August 05 2012 03:56 Toadesstern wrote: Got it. Everyone is awful as town. Back to accusing WBG. ...so, before and after saying he highly thinks one of either WBG/Eran is town, he accuses Bugs. It's clear to me he is sticking with his town read on Eran. The time-frame is important. The quotes I just listed show pretty clearly how he views Erandorr around the very beginning of August 5th (like 00:00 to 04:00 KST). This now is from the mason PMs with Erandorr. [04.08.2012 21:00:13] Toad: btw I think Hassy could be the last mafia The timestamp is in CET...converted to KST it's August 5th 05:00. This puts it just after the chain of posts I pointed out above. So basically he is telling someone who he's reading as town that he has a scum read on Hassy. I can't think of any situation where Toad would lie about a read like that given he is reading that person as town. Therefore my take-away from this is that Toad is genuinely reading Hassy as scum. This is further evidenced by how he has lately been pretty vocal about Hassy being scum. Ten minutes later, he posts this in the thread: On August 05 2012 05:10 Toadesstern wrote: It's something like this: I said Talis is mafia I said WBG is mafia and I said Prplhz is mafia People agreed with what I said about wbg. Pretty much no one agreed with what I said about Prplhz Literally noone agreed with what I said about Talis. The two people who masoned me would prefere a Prplhz lynch as far as I can tell as well. I'm going to be afk for an hour or something like this. If people think Talis is the better move I'll vote talis, if people think prplhz is the better move I'll vote prplhz. I think prplhz is marginally better and it's only 22:00 my time. Waiting until 23:00 shouldn't be a problem to see what people think. So ten minutes after he calls Hassy scum, he is saying we should lynch prplhz because Hassy thinks so. What the fuck? I don't see any motivation for a town Toad to be bolstering the 'lynch prphlz movement' by citing someone who he is actively reading as scum. It's more likely to me that he is scum, and was pushing the prplhz lynch under false pretenses. | ||
|
s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
| ||
|
s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
 | ||
|
s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
| ||
|
s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
08-12-2012 07:07 AM ET (US) son of a bitch I was going to find out if you guys cloaked this properly before daybreak but never got around to it. Lucky bastards. (search "zephirdd" in quicktopic's search tool). Edit: who's the fifth? Hier? Does he even know he's scum? this was in the scum QT? e: this googling of QT's needs a solution, like badly | ||
|
s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
also the lazies/in-actives in this game really diminished what was otherwise a really cool set-up. all those masons...that was definitely new to me. thanks for hosting BC. thanks marv for bringing home the win | ||
|
s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
| ||
| ||
