EPTI'm reading VE and synystyr as scum and varying degrees of town on the rest of us. Lazer and Toad are confirmed to me despite the GF conundrum. I'll have a case together soon on synystyr, but I want a VE lynch today.
and also teehee I'm a joker lol.
Mad Men Mafia - Page 4
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
I'm reading VE and synystyr as scum and varying degrees of town on the rest of us. Lazer and Toad are confirmed to me despite the GF conundrum. I'll have a case together soon on synystyr, but I want a VE lynch today. and also teehee I'm a joker lol. | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On August 06 2012 09:44 Synystyr wrote: Active mode starting now  grush and CountDropula are the most counterproductive people in this thread. They're being trollish for the sake of screwing with our heads and making us point fingers at each other instead of them. If they weren't scum, they'd be more helpful than they are now. Stop with the hints and talk straight at us. Oh good, activity! We could use some of that! All this post accomplishes is his displeasure with grush and CD for trolling. They've also both flipped town but that is inconclusive. The lack of a SCUM READ is what is concerning here. On August 07 2012 01:07 Synystyr wrote: Talismania is scum. He pushes this action to confuse town. If Sloosh dies in the night, it gives Talis tons of town cred because he said that medics should protect Sloosh. A little reverse psychology action too by claiming he would kill Sloosh if he were mafia. A hit on Sloosh appears to be be only negative for him and thus making him look innocent by association. He reflects heat off of his scum buddy and himself with this line. Many times throughout the thread, Talis gives WBG a onceover with a "probably town" read and then accuses someone new. Talis is scum with WBG and is trying to protect him. He also wants DTs to check other players other than himself/WBG to avoid being caught. He defends himself before anyone has even pointed a finger at him. This post feels like mafia bait to me, but is instead used so he can point fingers at the person who will make the argument and deflect heat off of him. With the death of Sloosh, it gives him an extremely concrete defense as a townie. Mafia team-roleblock him to make him look like a medic, then doublestack Sloosh in case of a medic. Talis' reasoning to medic sloosh was good, but other players like Toad, Erandorr and SnB come off as town to me and good candidates to be protected over sloosh in the night. There could have been two medics on Sloosh last night, but obviously that was not the case as Sloosh is dead. With that, Talis has everything to gain defensively and gives him a really powerful position to manipulate town as Mafia. His aggressive finger pointing without concrete evidence is his way of appearing town. I'm not buying it. ##Vote Talismana The entire basis of his case is from WIFOM'ing the NK on slo0sh. He also connection theory's that talis and bugs are scum together with very little evidence. Besides that, Talis responded to this case himself below. We know talis was town. Read his defense (nested below) and what it entails: On August 07 2012 08:38 Synystyr wrote: Weekends are simply very busy for me so I don't have time to post much during them. You'll see my activity increase over the week. Rest assured that I am green. I found you to be the person with the most to gain from Sloosh's death. I stand by my vote. This is the first case i've tried to build against someone, so there may be a few holes, but I wouldn't do it without good reasoning. Your claims on VE seem to be attacking his meta. I'm inclined to believe that you have some good points against him, but I simply don't know how VE has played in other games. I believe that at least one of the masons revealed is scum, and I lean towards VE more than anyone else. I'm interested to see what will happen with the two of you now that VE has masoned you. Talis solidly refutes Synystyr's case and in response he gets a weak excuse for activity, synystyr doubts his own case due to it being the first one made but insists he had 'good reasoning'. I do not see a well reasoned case, nor do I see any attempt to build upon the case or push his read other than 'my vote stands'. He briefly addresses the point on VE as Talis attacking VE's meta, admits he doesn't know VE's meta and as a result the case is worthless. Synystyr completely discredits Talis' entire case as "meta, not important" when in reality, Talis points out significant flaws in VE's case against them and why they are scumtells (not meta-VE tells). After dismissing the actual case on VE, Synystyr takes an incredibly weak stance on VE's scumminess, Maybe he's scum because hes a mason and one of the masons have to be scum. He distances himself from any accountability if a mason is flipped, but also has a free excuse if he ever makes a case on any mason. Finally lets look at his vote yesterday: + Show Spoiler + Made you look! Make no mistake, + Show Spoiler + His vote isn't there. Completely disappears with no notice, no explanation, NOTHING. Modkilling aside, this is scummy due to him saying he'll be more active. His case against talis is weak and his response is weaker. Synystyr's only other comments (however few) have done nothing for hunting scum. It sucks that my case can be dismissed with a quick "oh I wasn't active enough" but I see some solid scum motivation in synystyr's filter. What really triggered my thought that he was scum was that he was an outlier on the vote Day 2 on Talis. His only company was Xsebt (who had a redcheck). The vote gives us no info on other scum, and I think we've all been guilty of letting his inactivity slide, so in hindsight my initial reaction was not justified as more than an "oh, that's interesting". My digging into it, however, has given me a strong scum read on synystyr. tl;dr: + Show Spoiler + - Garbage case against Talismania - Promises oodles of activity, fails to deliver - SYNYSTYR IS SCUM | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
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Hopeless1der
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On August 14 2012 02:58 marvellosity wrote: if you get a moment, could you explain why VE flipping red would make BKE more likely red? Soft defenses and shifting suspicions off of VE earlier in the game. | ||
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Hopeless1der
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Hopeless1der
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Post ended up being huge...This one is completely spoilered. A second one follows with what pushed me over the edge on my read of bke. + Show Spoiler + Brood Not exactly a standard lurker with only two pages to his filter. BC has already been notified of his activity issues and he was cleared, so activity is not a determining factor in BKE's scumminess. Step 1: Find the first post that seems to have any content: On August 05 2012 08:07 BroodKingEXE wrote: This sort of stuff needs to come after the game. Ive so far found your posts to be sub-optimal town play. At this point Im against a prphlz for the reasons that his case had merit and he has been afk for a long time. In the past this is how bandwagons on Day 1 have started. Im examining those who have been throwing around their votes so far. BKE has had no impact on the game at all at this point. All he could have possibly done was read the thread. He plans to start making connection theories following the DAY 1 voting so far. This is quite possibly the worst way to look for scum that early in the game. Those votes could be random or OMGUS or pressure. Not the most convincing plan of action. Talis responds to BKE to point out his lack of a filter. The entire exchange is quoted below: On August 05 2012 08:29 talismania wrote: I ain't doing no "nailing". Just can't resist a cheap shot :-) BKE's "description" of talis' filter is blatantly wrong and just shrugs off any activity issues he might have as "RL issues" (to be fair, this seems to have been true) and goes on to focus suspicions on Talis for his setup/character questions. Read Talis' 2nd and 3rd page of his filter. It shows talis trying to get information into the thread from various players, and yes, asking inane setup questions. It also shows a huge post (2nd page) of his current reads that quite frankly...how do you miss that? BKE didn't want to get into any discussions, he wanted to get out as fast as possible and shift suspicion back on to Talis. The Erandorr Ordeal On August 05 2012 09:11 BroodKingEXE wrote: I have a problem with the top two lynch candidates. WBG: calling out the mason was a good move in my book. But it doesn't make shit sense from the scum POV, scum can kill him regardless of whether or not the town knows the mason. His feud with Eran seems to be long standing and I could believe bugs could get frustrated and rage. prplphz: Although his play has been poor I agree with his initial case against Glasse. Glasse's play was poor and lynch worthy at the time. Furthermore this lynch seems too much like a wagon on an inactive. I feel much more comfortable lynching Eran. Seems like he could be mason scum manipulating bugs, looking to create trouble. He said himself he wanted to create a scumhunting environment, yet he helps initiate a shitstorm in a mason PM. All three of those players were town. He agrees that prplhz has a decent case (or an agreeable case, whatever) on Glasse but BKE has no intention of chasing after it. Instead he wants to go after Erandorr? Somehow WBG's feud with Erand makes bugs town but erand scum because "Erandorr initiated a shitstorm". Bugs was just as accountable in that feud. Later on, BKE posts his suspicions on Erandorr: On August 07 2012 16:03 BroodKingEXE wrote: Erandorr Erandorr has been doing scummy things all game long and its time they get splayed out for everyone to see. The WBG case. Eran's points: 1) The mason out The majority of Erandorr's earlier posts addressed this issue. There were flaws in the thinking that outing is anti-town. Mafia's ability to PM each other being one of them. His main argument that mason alignment is unknown only makes sense from a town POV. A scum WBG knows mason alignment, so outing them makes no sense. You also have to remember that Erandorr outed himself as well. His explantion: Really? What was WBGs first point (the point you so thought was so blatantly wrong)? The reasoning doesn't make sense either as outing your self isn't alignment indicative. 2) Mason Logs As a mason Erandorr has two reasons for picking someone: he has suspicions and wants to get a better read on them or he wants to talk about the game with a townread without giving info to mafia. Picking WBG he already chose the second option. Yet he tries for an hour to get an answer, when it was quite clear that he wasn’t going to get shit. I dont see the advantage of asking the question in the PM at all, the thread was a much better way to get that info from WBG as it forces him to make semi rational posts. You could say that he was trying to bait out WBG, but that seems like a viable scum option. 3) Not analyzing posts: Funny cause he isn’t doing it either. Calling the townbase bad and not addressing certain cases. Point 1: Ernadorr did NOT out himself. Bugs did that for him. He expected him to, but once again Eran DID NOT OUT HIMSELF. Point 2: Nonsense? How can you determine that eran picked one of those two reasons? In the explanation that bke JUST QUOTED, erand explains how masoning bugs was a gambit that succeeded in revealing bugs as scum. The logs are inconsequential to Erand's goal in masoning bugs. Point 3: Primarily OMGUS. The short-lived battle of "Do I like VE? (Circa The Erandorr Ordeal) Bke flip flops on soft defending/accusing VE, literally two posts apart in his filter: On August 08 2012 02:17 BroodKingEXE wrote: You'e never played a game with VE have you. Establishing his innocence is something he mentions every game. I dont think anyone agrees that Talis' rolefishing had any place in this town, so why not call it out? This reasoning is too shabby for you to be making votes. On August 08 2012 12:20 BroodKingEXE wrote: Dont lie. Eran outed himself there was no intention for him to get WBG to out him again. If that's your whole case against Eran, it's pretty shitty to vote for them. Again, bugs outed erandorr. The fuck... Return to Erandorr This point got followed up by wbg: On August 09 2012 01:23 BroodKingEXE wrote: A townies gotta have the right info otherwise the whole town is fucked. Towns advantage is they can make consensus and informed desicions, its our job to find the scum leading us off track and look for people who have gone off track. I dont get you you keep saying you wont play the game but your still making accusations (small if that). However, (as I've noted already: + Show Spoiler + On August 09 2012 01:32 Hopeless1der wrote: Townies need that info BEFORE they make decisions not after they already made them. And just because bugs is not as active as everyone would like him to be doesn't diminish the fact that what you posted makes you look bad. Draws attention to Zentor's voting. On August 08 2012 14:32 BroodKingEXE wrote: Does anyone else find Zentor's voting pattern tricky at the end. Seems like he wanted to be on the townie side of the lynch. He hasn't really done much of anything in terms of scumhunting, and his vote for Eran and VE should have been crystal clear as he had suspicions about VE before. Zentor's playing to his scum meta to top it off. Specifically: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/j7jlj.jpg) Just kind of WIFOM's the issue and draws no real conclusion other than Zentor didn't follow his own scumread. You don't say! All of one line regarding VE? That's an ironclad reason to vote someone, why in the world would he think twice?! Seriously, go read Zentor's filter. Find how many times he "suspects" VE before this point in time. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668&user=137099&user=137099 + Show Spoiler + It's once...maybe twice with the clarification: On August 08 2012 05:55 MrZentor wrote: If we were to lynch into lurkers, why would we allow likely scum(VE) to influence our decision? Lynching into lurkers is a bad idea, but letting scum choose who we lynch is worse. Anyways, the way VE is arbitrarily shifting the lynch from some lurkers to others has convinced me that he has a secret agenda. Lazermonkey is really suspicious too. I don't know Zentor's scum meta. I believe that if you want to use meta as a case, the onus is on you to make your case, not make a vague statement and expect it to take. On August 13 2012 15:11 BroodKingEXE wrote: Was not expecting Talis to be vig shot. Fine with the claim being held off, at least till we know the outcome of this lynch. VE, based on Talis' and marvs reasoning. My list is VE, Glasse, and Zentor. Still working on connecting up the pieces, Zentors meta makes reading him a bit tricky but I find the Zentor Zeph votes confirming an Erandorr lynch pretty damning. VE fits into the story since he was the second canidate. Zentor's meta is now simply "tricky" instead of the scum it was earlier. Still clinging to the flipflop vote from Zentor, he connects him to zeph's flip strictly by the votes and nothing else. Very weak. | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
What is a well reasoned argument? Somehow I manage to convince bke to go from : ##Vote: Talismania Youre too much of a risk to take on lategame, plus everyones got a basic connection to you, and different reads. To this: On August 11 2012 02:20 BroodKingEXE wrote: Now it makes sense. Hopeless is right I have other peoples names in my PM. I have a guy named Henry Francais in my PM too. ##Unvote With a pants on head faked dt theory. How in the hell am I more credible than a redcheck? THIS MOVE DOES NOT MAKE SENSE! THIS IS THE EXCUSE TO BUS VE! On August 11 2012 02:56 BroodKingEXE wrote: Out of the two Talis has been playing more townie than VE. I wont be around for the lynch but this whole thing seems off about Talis being scum. ##Vote: VE Convenient that he goes missing. His vote looks completely natural, except for the part where he switches from a semi-confirmed redcheck to an unknown mason. On August 14 2012 00:56 BroodKingEXE wrote: Remember this post and how strange it was. It makes sense if he knows Zeph's alignment and is trying to bus him! Day 2 he comes in and votes for Zeph based on his list and the day 1 post. Why didn't he push him like Eran or Talis? This post reeeeeeeeeks of desperation to distance himself from VE and look like he was strongly pushing for his lynch all along. BKE rarely takes a strong stance throughout the game and quite frankly has not posted much of a case on anything in the game. His posting has been generally disruptive, poking at other people's gameplay but contributing little of his own to help out. He makes very weak connections using votes as the basis for his suspicions. He does not scumhunt. He busses. BroodKingEXE is Scum | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On August 15 2012 01:57 BroodKingEXE wrote: VE wasnt playing to his town meta, at all. Even when he isnt as active, he seems to try more than he did in this game. In all he made two cases and his scum hunting felt suboptimal for VE. He sounded a bit too apologetic at the Erandorr lynch. So where does that leave us? Why is that information beneficial? How does that assist us in finding scum? I can't even tell who, or even if your are trying to defend/attack someone in this post. | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On August 15 2012 03:18 Glasse wrote: What did I do to you guys? I like my body without bullet holes in it. You have no right to still be alive. Do something useful please. | ||
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Hopeless1der
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Hopeless1der
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On August 14 2012 03:15 JingleHell wrote: Ask around. I always get pissed about batshit, stupid, tinfoil hat cases that ignore the information. Make a real case. | ||
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Hopeless1der
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Hopeless1der
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On August 15 2012 10:21 marvellosity wrote: no. vote for scum. Yes, Sir! ##Vote: marvellosity | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
I don't think that page 85 interaction is anywhere near good enough to push a lynch this far into the game. Why is it unfathomable to expect a legitimate case against a player who has taken very little suspicions? I'm supposed to just trust you? Hell no. | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
Can we deal with your case on Jingle later? BKE is a way easier lynch to sell today. I have my reservations about Jingle, but one of the biggest things about him that isn't noted is the following: Visceraeyes as Lane Pryce the mafia mason Hassybaby as Duck philips the Godfather mason It seems like we've met our scum mason quota and I know that's trying to game the setup/host, but the odds of Jingle being scum don't sit well with me. Besides the mason numbers, I still think Jingle is town and you're barking up the wrong tree marv. If I have to discuss it today, I will, but I'd prefer to wait until after we've set today's lynch if possible as I don't want to lynch Jingle and would prefer to spend time discussing what I think is your second scum read. ##Vote: BroodKingEXE Link to my case on BKE for reference: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=15838425 I'll be back to discuss in around 4ish hours, assuming of course that there is something to discuss. | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
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Hopeless1der
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