EPTI will not be replaced (got knocked out of evo QQ)
Edit: Really excited about the post-game analysis
I Can't Believe it's not Themed MiniMafia
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Risen
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I will not be replaced (got knocked out of evo QQ) Edit: Really excited about the post-game analysis | ||
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On July 09 2012 11:54 GMarshal wrote: So do I, seeing a blank list i so refreshing :-P Haha, a guy can't make the list in his head? Damn yo  | ||
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Going to try my best to keep marvel alive for his awesome username. | ||
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On July 12 2012 09:36 gonzaw wrote: So, if the lynch was right now I'd want to kill one of these 3 guys: You can see the recurring theme in all 3 (just 1 post, promising something/appearing they are eager to start but not doing anything else later). marv, talismania, anybody active, what do you think about these guys? If you had to kill one of them which one would you choose and why? (if you don't want to kill anyone then say so). Also this guy could die too: But at least he put a little bit more effort (although that's not town-telling) Dropbear and Milton haven't even posted, but well we can't do anything about it. Any particular reason you're trying to push something on people with a low post count in thread so early? Didn't even know lurking was possible at this point. So you're either an extremely eager townie or scum looking for easy targets to push early. | ||
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On July 12 2012 10:34 gonzaw wrote: In hindsight this came out more aggressive than I meant it :/ It's cool. It's nothing compared to what I handled from igrok my last game. Anywho, I was just pointing out I found it odd you would try and push people onto "lurkers" so early on. I don't think anything about you. There's nothing to go on right now. I don't think that post was in your favor, though. | ||
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On July 12 2012 10:15 s0Lstice wrote: maybe I misread, but I'm pretty sure Marv was addressing Talis with those lines you quoted, gonzaw. As far as the names you listed, I wouldn't want to kill any of them right now. Austin has easy town meta, I feel confident I can recognize it. Mattchew, Risen, and s&b are just blank pages. I am nervous however of Risen making a conscious effort to change his play-style. I read him right in SSB64 but just barely. I'm down to call people out on their stupidity, I'm just not going to be so aggressive about it. So just take anywhere I'd call someone an idiot, a horrible host, a bad person, a failure at life, etc and replace it with kinder, gentler words. I think... | ||
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On July 12 2012 11:16 gonzaw wrote: Getting killed on N1 every game does that to you. I just want to find the whole scumteam on D1 and lynch them all >_> I've heard worse plans | ||
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On July 12 2012 15:00 DropBear wrote: Hello everyone. I strongly disagree with town roleblocker being forced to claim, let alone not using their power. Having been one in past games that actually managed to block mafia KP I can testify to the usefulness of using this power. With the added possibility of jailkeeper and mafia roleblocker any claim could be complete bogus anyway and would be very difficult to verify. If you are town roleblocker do not claim! One thing I would like to say about how we go about things, please don't overpost. Say what you need to say and shut up. Be concise and clear. This does not mean don't post, nor does it mean don't post often. It means don't post crap that doesn't need to be said. Stuff like this isn't necessary and clogs up your filter, please don't do it. You haven't played a game with me before, so I'll let it slide, but I'm fairly notorious for harping on people as scum for using smiley faces. Also, no need to be the fun police  | ||
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On July 12 2012 15:14 sciberbia wrote: @keirathi, @Dropbear, @Risen Do you guys have any suspicions yet? Maybe you could comment on my post about risen/marv or about gonzaw's accusations of risen/strongandbig/Mattchew? This thread is too quiet for my liking -- please share some of your thoughts. I think it's too early for anything. I don't really like to make reads without any connections (this might be a bad thing to do). I just think it's easier for me to make cases when I consider people as members of a team, not as individual scum members. | ||
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On July 12 2012 15:18 DropBear wrote: This is silly. This isn't going to happen and would just waste time. On the majority lynch, day 1 this tends to be a right kerfuffle. I can't think of any system that has ever worked on day 1 in games I have been part of. So fuck a system, we deal with it when the time comes. There should be solid candidates by then anyway. For example: this could be DropBear bussing/giving his teammate a way to backtrack on his plan or it could be scum calling out a townie. I'm not saying I even have a scumread on drop as he seems to want a pro-town environment, which is something I'm all for, but this is something that could be used to confirm a connection in my mind at a later point in time. | ||
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On July 12 2012 15:22 DropBear wrote: For mine I have no idea yet, we are only 3 pages in or so? As to gonzaw's post, I think he is trying too hard. A hello post is extremely common and says absolutely nothing about alignment. Give them time. Points for effort mate but really a bit much so early. As to your post on marv, I completely disagree. Attacking a stupid plan is fine. He might still be mafia, who knows? But I disagree with your reasoning as to why he is. I don't like how drop is trying to take the lead here and I think previously with all this "hey mate decent line but try this instead" or "hey mate lets be bros but I don't think you should be doing this" I generally don't like anything that could be considered guidance coming from anywhere other than a plan with spelled out logic. | ||
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On July 12 2012 16:29 Vivax wrote: There's no link to a voting thread in the OP methinks.Add pls? ##Vote Yes, this is going places. I like your thinking. I just like your style, my dude. You have my vote! ##vote: Vivax | ||
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Looks like my vote will be staying on Vivax. I really thought austin's case on me that concluded with a town read was just scummy b/c seriously who goes into that much detail just to end up buddying me? (Goes to the whole, he knows I'm town and therefor just found some stuff in my past games to support his "town-read" case) I'll be gathering everything on Vivax into a single post, but I really don't think we should be lynching anyone else. | ||
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On July 14 2012 04:16 Vivax wrote: LOL sciberbia, I am bandwagoning? Tell me then, who was the first to vote for Risen? Here you are defending him not by attacking the arguments against him, but his attacker. That's the type of defense one can employ for scumbuddies with less risk. I really hope we lynch Risen today, cause if he's scum this slip by yours will mean you're next, I'll take care of it in that case. And fyi, I have a townread on Keirathi. His posts look pro-town to me, the only thing that bugs me is that he only posted reads about a few people, along with calling out some to specify things, but he says his schedule doesn't allow much time. He also criticizes the use of meta by some people, which I think is also ok cause meta shouldn't be the way to get your top reads. I won't vote Keirathi today. DropBear made a possible slip, which even Keirathi pointed out. This is important cause that slip might have turned out to be in Keirathis favor and yet he pointed it out. That action reads town to me. + Show Spoiler + On July 13 2012 17:02 DropBear wrote: Oh whoops that was a mistake, i meant to say Milton. I'm unsure on you. Tbh, I don't know what to think of DropBear from this slip. Right now I have a null read on him, also looking at his other posts. Doesn't look like he fears exposion, so I'll assume he is town for now. Maybe he made that slip cause he knew Keirathi is town, but ignore this since it's super speculative  And this is him trying to muddy up the waters by just using "scumslip" as many ways as possible in a manner that is clearly not a "scumslip" so people will think he's just being noob towny. Do not fall for this... | ||
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As usual with these things, don't take his defense of Keirathi into account if making cases on him (Keirathi) | ||
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On July 14 2012 04:21 Vivax wrote: Since Risen thinks my case sucks, I'd like to point out the quality of his cases: Then we see here how he tries to cast doubt on my initial vote on him. Anyone reading the thread knows I placed my vote on him in only a half-hearted manner b/c his vote for strongandbig was just bad. Keep feeding me the rope, though, Viv. | ||
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On July 14 2012 04:17 sciberbia wrote: lol sorry just couldn't resist pointing this out lol | ||
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On July 14 2012 04:24 Vivax wrote: Hey Risen, you gonna post the definition of scumslip from a dictionary next or are you smart enough to understand what I mean from the context of my post? Being a language nazi isn't the best defense, know what I mean? From scumhunt, and as it's used on these forums... A scumslip is anything that a member of the Scum-team can say that gives away that he's with the mafia, 100%. On July 14 2012 04:24 austinmcc wrote: Risen's case so far blows. Waiting on the longer form version that was coming. However, your case didn't win awards either. Your slip wasn't a slip. Risen's nonsensical read on DropBear had also been brought up and discussed. I mentioned it in my first post. Gonzaw misinterepreted it and wrote about it. Marv pointed that out. I pointed that out. Other people pointed it out. Those 3 posts of Risen on DropBear had already popped up and been batted around a little. You basically grabbed 2 posts in which he does nothing, ignored all the other posts in which he does nothing, then poked at something that has already been wtf?ed at. I'll get on it boss. | ||
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On July 12 2012 07:36 Vivax wrote: I like gonzaws idea for the miller, but not for the masons. The masons should stay secret to pull off team stunts. Alright, good opener. Nothing too useful, but he's giving his opinion on the miller/mason claim. Better than lurking! On July 12 2012 16:29 Vivax wrote: There's no link to a voting thread in the OP methinks.Add pls? ##Vote His very next post. How can you be an active lurker so early into the game? I initially thought this post was just something to get strongandbig posting. I, however, hate when people do things like this without at least a little solid reasoning. Pressuring people is fine, I do it (or at least I try to) and I'm not worried about that, but I dislike how this is just a single one-line vote following absolutely nothing. On July 12 2012 17:21 Vivax wrote: ##unvote strongandbig ##Vote Miltonkram Well you said you were watching something on tv yesterday and would start calling out scum soon, so I thought you were monitoring the game. Anyway, that was a pretty informative post about marv, you have my seal of approval for unlurking. Now I wanna see something from Milton :p. Gives credence to the possibility that he's just pressuring people into posting by using his vote as a means. Perfectly fine, and I support this pressure because it's not just "##unvote ##vote miltonb/clurk"... it's milton said he was going to lurk a little but lets add a little fire under his bum for added motivation. At this point I'm thinking, oh yeah vivax is playing pretty townie. Sweet. On July 12 2012 18:30 Vivax wrote: @ NSH It's cause of a habit. I just tend to expect links in underlined words <_<. Back to the topic: ##unvote strongandbig Very informative post about marv there. Wanted to vote Milton next but he posted. He tries to make himself pretty transparent by posting his games. It's a good sign, but nothing decisive. Speaking of meta, sciberbia doesn't look good based on that.I was with him in two games and I feel like he's being different in this one. s0lstice already pointed out the missing fast posts we're used to see from scib at the start of the game. That alone is forgivable given the posted reasons. But the overall gut feeling is still bad cause of the overall style. This is just... what? I don't even know what's going on the first half of this post. Anyways, he finds the person he's played with in the past and says "he's playing different from his meta! He's different!" Umm... how? That's how meta cases work, you find a discrepancy and then you post what said discrepancy is. Also latches onto s0lstice's point about scrib's posting instead of adding to the conversation. On July 13 2012 01:49 Vivax wrote: No, he doesn't have to be townie. But I initially voted for him cause he didn't post anything, then he posted the metagame info and I found it good enough to unvote him. I remember sciberbia for more concise, compact posts, and I remember him posting really early. He already explained why he didn't post early in this game, so what remains are the posts that subjectively look different to me. But I prefer to not rely heavily on meta, my play changes often aswell and I don't have as much experience. Anyway, I don't like Matt's filter, it looks like he posts rather meaningless content, no active scumhunting in it, rather commenting on what other players already said. He also acts a little differently than in LVI. More wishy washy "he's different but I'm not going to post anything specific" On July 13 2012 02:46 Vivax wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=344514&user=129423 Matt's filter in LVI. You accused me of using too much meta, so feel free to read and quote it for yourself. Weird that you asked about it cause you were in the same game. Continues with "his meta is different just look here!" (gives him an out if someone says well I read it and I'm not seeing anything wonky like you because Viv hasn't actually posted HOW matt is different) On July 13 2012 03:11 Vivax wrote: Some from LVI: + Show Spoiler + On July 01 2012 15:46 Mattchew wrote: Adam, what do you make of this post. And I like your thoughts on Mandalor His tone is different. Just look at the posts this game. They discredit many opinions, but I can't recognize any active scumhunting coming from them. From this game: + Show Spoiler + On July 12 2012 22:39 Mattchew wrote: Strong I feel like the entirety of your posts could easily be made by either town or scum, if this is you trying to establish your alignment you have done a poor job with me. Your post is longwinded and looks to explain your thought process, but we both know that 95% of your posts content has nothing to do with this game at all. Not only that but your early attempt at a read on marv does not even account for his other posts in the thread. And your reasoning for voting him from this game is too, extremely weak. So... you grab an extremely specific post about matt bawking at someone making an extremely scummy post and say that b/c he's different now he's moving away from his meta? His meta is a general trend of how he usually plays, if you wanted to use that in a meta argument you'd have to find a post very similar to the one you quoted and make the link between games. For example, if a post in a similar vein was made in this thread and matt didn't do anything about it, THEN you would say he's playing against his meta. OR, if he made a post very similar to the one he made that game in this one you could point to that and say he's playing to his meta. That hasn't happened, there is no meta connection in those quotes you provided. Now you're misusing meta AND scumslip. What gives... On July 13 2012 04:18 Vivax wrote: You got your answers about matt. You asked for meta information, not me. My arguments against matt weren't based primarily on meta like you are trying to put it. Also, good job on asking for information you think is not a contribution. If that's the information you want town to get, it's not hard to guess which team you are on. Bold: The actual meta content regarding matt. It's interesting how you inflated such a sentence and go on calling it an inconsistency with my opinion regarding meta. I said I wouldn't base my reads heavily on meta. + Show Spoiler + On July 13 2012 01:49 Vivax wrote: No, he doesn't have to be townie. But I initially voted for him cause he didn't post anything, then he posted the metagame info and I found it good enough to unvote him. I remember sciberbia for more concise, compact posts, and I remember him posting really early. He already explained why he didn't post early in this game, so what remains are the posts that subjectively look different to me. But I prefer to not rely heavily on meta, my play changes often aswell and I don't have as much experience. Anyway, I don't like Matt's filter, it looks like he posts rather meaningless content, no active scumhunting in it, rather commenting on what other players already said. He also acts a little differently than in LVI. Marv, correctly imo, calls out Vivax on his horrible use of meta. Vivax replies with a horrible defense and a soft push on marv. Guess who soft pushes shit? Scum. Why? Because later on they can point to the soft-pushes, the soft-defenses and say "hey! I called him out long ago, that's why I'm joining this bandwaggon!" or "hey! I defended him here, see! I knew he was towny, damn..." after a town flip. On July 13 2012 05:36 Vivax wrote: Yes this indeed was a wtf post. I stil don't get why someone votes me for voting someone else while inserting some contentless crap along with the vote. Him saying it's too early for anything + Show Spoiler + o_O More to follow. More to follow....... ........ ..... .. . Where? On July 13 2012 09:07 Vivax wrote: I'm not comfortable with a tali lynch. Comparing filters I found Miltonkrams filter to be fairly empty and he targetted the easy target. He posted 1. A list of his games to make himself available for a metacheck. 2. He comments on Talis plan being bad, and that being reason enough to be scummy. My impression of talis plan gone bad so far: It's a magnet for players with no/bad cases to have a reason to post something accusing. The downside is that it might have triggered policy discussion and a lot of chaos, while promising a lot of clarity by forcing players to take a hard stance, so talis plan was risky from a town perspective, and I'd leave it at that. He said it worked in bastard mafia, let's leave it at that: It won't be used here. 3. Defending oneself isn't scummy. If it's really the only thing you do, then yes, but Milton already knows that it's not the only thing tali is doing: still seems to firmly believe in a scum tali. He doesn't have any other reads. He comments on Keirathi and sciberbia being unreadable to him. I'll go for Milton if I don't see some arguments to his defense. Finally! We have a post with conviction! (Even if it IS coming after other people have already voiced suspicion of Milton) On July 13 2012 21:51 Vivax wrote: Ok Milton, your defense is quite good. I suspected you for going with towns' sentiment regarding talis and getting an easy lynch target, and to be honest I still feel that the arguments against him aren't very strong. He's in a bad corner cause of his proposition, in page 2 of his filter he stopped talking about the plan, then started calling out people before he got forced into a defensive position again. + Show Spoiler + On July 13 2012 05:49 talismania wrote: Time to poke the hornet's nest again dropbear what's your response to this (below)? The way I see it, you made a post asking vivax some questions with some implied suspicion maybe. Then marv votes vivax and you eagerly hop on the wagon. When called out, you say you called him out for being suspicious the page earlier, but the only post you made in reference to him was just the one where you asked him questions. You never actually called him out for being suspicious as you said. If there is something I detest, is when someone gets accused for defending himself, like you did, Milton. Defending yourself is playing to win, from each alignments perspective. It's only logical that a guy who has to counter endless arguments can't be actively scumhunting, but Talis posted his reads already on page 1 before people started accusing him so heavily: + Show Spoiler + On July 13 2012 00:43 talismania wrote: Reactions to talismania's Shitty Plan (for those who care) + Show Spoiler + marvellosity On July 12 2012 09:47 marvellosity wrote: naw, I'm not killing anyone based on one post right at the beginning of the game (especially as pregame was quite active/friendly, it spilled over) I'd rather lynch talis for his never-ending bullshit on listing names and reasons. Seriously, 24 hours into day 1 and we're supposed to come up with reasons on 3 different people for why they might be scum? It's just nonsense. Or... wait for it... I have an idea! If someone says something a person finds scummy, they can call them out and bring it to the thread! Wow, marv, you say - an amazing plan! People shouldn't be 'forced' to make effort, the making of the effort willingly is what helps gives us our reads on people. Predictably shits on it, suggests policy lynching me out of his annoyance that I keep proposing these dumb plans. gonzaw On July 12 2012 09:36 gonzaw wrote: So, if the lynch was right now I'd want to kill one of these 3 guys: You can see the recurring theme in all 3 (just 1 post, promising something/appearing they are eager to start but not doing anything else later). marv, talismania, anybody active, what do you think about these guys? If you had to kill one of them which one would you choose and why? (if you don't want to kill anyone then say so). Also this guy could die too: But at least he put a little bit more effort (although that's not town-telling) Dropbear and Milton haven't even posted, but well we can't do anything about it. Actually follows the plan - as I said seems rather townie. Especially the timing. Mattchew On July 12 2012 10:46 Mattchew wrote: Also, talis has the worst plan ever with his 3 people thing. That just allows people to half ass push some stupid reads and then connections theories run wild and everything turns to shit shits on it solstice On July 12 2012 11:04 s0Lstice wrote: Keirathi, assuming you are still around... why so verbose about lurkers? what do you think of talismania's plan? I actually don't see him reacting to it at all yet he asks keirathi about it. Interesting. He did react to gonzaw's post reacting to mine. austinmcc On July 12 2012 11:33 austinmcc wrote: That's because there's basically nothing to my first post except "Millers claim," which isn't helpful. What I can add is that I think talismania's 3-case plan is bad, but that seems to be the general sentiment. Forcing arbitrary requirements on everyone isn't really going to help us, and is going to clog up the thread later. People are going to make halfhearted cases to try to reach that number, someone will inevitably only find 1-2 people scummy and we'd end up in some "does x not making 3 cases = scummy?" discussion, and we also might end up lynching people that EVERYONE finds a little bit scummy rather than someone that a few people have a strong scumread on for good reasoning. Can also add that I haven't played with gonzaw, but I've obsed his recent games. Anyone here feel like they do a good job reading him, and if so, can you post some tips? I've found that I almost always end up reading him as scum, because he is active enough and posts enough that I keep finding scummy things to latch on to. Had him scum at the end of liar game just prior to the katina lynch, but also found him really scummy in the recent MTG because I felt like some of the plans he pushed hard were anti-town (check the obsqt early on, although I didn't post much there). So...any magical tricks for getting the right read on Gonzaw? Actually this reads scummy again on the second go-round too. He says he's about to "add" something but literally just copies/expands on what marv said and doesn't add anything at all. Keirathi On July 12 2012 11:54 Keirathi wrote: Sorry was getting dinner. I was verbose because I have some shared experience with sciberbia, whom I was replying to. I know that most (all?) of his TL mafia experience was in newbie games, and the dynamic is just different when you can assume that people know how to play the game. As far as talismania's plan, I feel like it makes it too easy for mafia to blend in. The more townies you have making arguments against other townies, the easier you can push mislynches and not have to take any blame for them. There are other things wrong with it, but Mattchew and austin beat me to it. No need rehashing what they said. Mmm I think this is innocuous. He might not even have responded if he hadn't been asked to. DropBear On July 12 2012 15:18 DropBear wrote: This is silly. This isn't going to happen and would just waste time. On the majority lynch, day 1 this tends to be a right kerfuffle. I can't think of any system that has ever worked on day 1 in games I have been part of. So fuck a system, we deal with it when the time comes. There should be solid candidates by then anyway. Actually this doesn't sit that well with me at all. Conversation had started to move on and then he brings it back to my plan and says the same shit everyone else did. I also don't like his misrepresentation of my views on the roleblocker's use of their power. strongandbig On July 12 2012 16:51 strongandbig wrote: Hey bros For people who weren't in ssb or mtg mafias, just wanted to let you guys know I am currently in Europe, where I don't have a cell phone data plan. This means I can only post when I have wifi, which is a change from my normal method. I've also been busy at work so please don't expect much from me before 8pm CET. Now for serious stuff: I'm going to be watching marv like a motherfuking hawk. I think hosts tend to try to "balance" games sometimes by tweaking their scum team selection; however, that can and has led to extra info from town through balance speculation. Marvellosity makes an extremely tempting player for hosts to do this kind of balancing, because his scum play is empirically very good, but he isn't a "veteran" so he's not likely to be the subject of balance speculation. I also suspect bugs of doing this kind of balancing. + Show Spoiler [reasons, from wheel of fortune.] + The last of his c++ games I played in was wheel of fortune. That was a stacked game and I was one of the worst players in it, although I did eventually manage to figure out the scum team (and got shot for having correct reads before I could push some of them). With the benefit of hindsight, that scum team looks almost perfectly balanced for the player base. Radfield was town, ace was scum. VE and Forumite were both good players, but only on the edge of being full-on vets. I firmly believe that town would have won that game if Radfield hadn't decided to use a DT check on Ace, who was godfather. That kind of closeness is the sign of a well-balanced game; and the odds that both town and scum would have their best player as their best power role are very small from pure chance. So what does this mean? I am NOT proposing to policy lynch marvellosity; if he's town he can be a great asset, and besides that's totally against the spirit of the game. What I AM saying is that I think when someone points out something scummy he does, we should take it pretty seriously. Pure chance wouldn't explain why he has rolled scum in something like half his games since our first game together (noob 6) while I have rolled it once - him being good and me not does explain that. NOW: having told you why you should pay attention, I'm going to point out something scummy marv has done. That thing is: propose/say he would be okay with lynching Talismania. Talismania's plan IS anti town. When Ace is host and he tells an obs QT how good a plan is for scum, you better believe he knows what he's talking about. Systematic case proposing plans give scum an excuse to make shitty reads and blend in, because everyone is making shitty cases and dumb reads. That kind of plan dilutes good information and adds bad information. HOWEVER: Talismania proposes this plan as town. All the time. Like, every game. Usually "pushing scummy plans" is a decent scum tell; but this specific player pushing this specific plan is not. And Marvellosity should know this. Marv has obs'd at least two games where Talismania proposed this plan or a variation of it (ssb, bangbang). Tali has proposed this in other games. Marv is the kind of player who pays attention; he should also know that I've pushed tali hard for these plans in the past, as have others. Marv putting tali forward as his first lynch candidates comes down to an easy push on an easy target for reasons he should know are bad. Marv, I'm watching you. + Show Spoiler [on Talismania, briefly] + I'm not saying tali is an easy target in general, like kenpachi or grush would be. He's not that kind of shitty player slash bad case magnet. It's just that for marv to propose him for lynch based on that plan is scummy. He's right about me always pushing this idea althoguh I think he's overreacting to marv's reaction. So actually not that many people commented on it even though I thought like everyone did oops. My views: scummy responses: austinmcc, dropbear null responses: marv, mattchew, keirathi, strongandbig townie response: gonzaw did not respond directly although was in the thread: Risen, sciberbia, solstice I sure see the effort to post reads and clear stances here. The responses to his plan have quite some potential. Cause I think your arguments made against talis are inflated and not good, I can't believe you to be town yet. In fact, I may not be able to debunk your case against talis, but I still have an overall bad impression of you, Milton. Another thing in your disfavor: Your defense from s0lstices points is actually an attack. You don't seem to have pushed back his arguments regarding you, you rather tried to discredit him for inconsistence regarding meta, that's a pretty OMGUS/scummy type of defense imo. I'll post more about Keirathi and Dropbear soon, they offer quite interesting connections. Gonna try to interprete Dropbears mistake and draw conclusions. Oh... jk... convictions gone. On July 13 2012 22:32 Vivax wrote: For once I'll agree with you marv. Using self-presented behavior as argumentation is not reliable. Inconsistencies between arguments and intentions are much better for scumhunting. Miltons intentions and arguments are : 1. Lynch talis based on (imo) weak arguments. At least too weak to draw such a quick decision about the lynch target. To me it just looks like Milton's trying to pick a target to blend in and call it a day, while defending himself like he does in point 2. 2. Defend from s0lstice using arguments not designed to defend oneself, but to attack s0lstice. That's also the inconsistency. If you think s0lstice is playing scummy, make a case against him. But don't point out things you find scummy and expect that to be your defense against that players' arguments. Ermm... ok? Nothing really to go on here since he's just confirming what marv has said and not actually offering anything of his own. See a common thread here? Viv isn't actually DOING anything. On July 14 2012 01:18 Vivax wrote: Wtf is all this talk about C9. Looks like a nice distraction from scumhunting. What do you think of the points I've made against Milton? And as opposed to him (cause Milton accuses him), what do you think of Talismania? Well, I guess Milton is his top scumread still. On July 14 2012 03:14 Vivax wrote: Thanks for reminding me, gonzaw. I'll start with an exquisite collection of quotes from various filters: Starting with My top scumread, Risen + Show Spoiler + On July 12 2012 10:38 Risen wrote: It's cool. It's nothing compared to what I handled from igrok my last game. Anywho, I was just pointing out I found it odd you would try and push people onto "lurkers" so early on. I don't think anything about you. There's nothing to go on right now. I don't think that post was in your favor, though. Written in 8th page of the game, when there was a fair bit of discussion already going on. He just tried to not attack gonzaw after trying to discredit gonz's previous post, enemies are bad for scum players. + Show Spoiler + On July 12 2012 15:18 Risen wrote: I think it's too early for anything. I don't really like to make reads without any connections (this might be a bad thing to do). I just think it's easier for me to make cases when I consider people as members of a team, not as individual scum members. More apologies for not doing anything in the 9th page of the game. + Show Spoiler + On July 12 2012 15:22 Risen wrote: EBWOP: He could also just be a townie doing pro-town things. This is the most likely option. He wrote this about....Drooopbear.When? After writing this: + Show Spoiler + On July 12 2012 15:22 Risen wrote: For example: this could be DropBear bussing/giving his teammate a way to backtrack on his plan or it could be scum calling out a townie. I'm not saying I even have a scumread on drop as he seems to want a pro-town environment, which is something I'm all for, but this is something that could be used to confirm a connection in my mind at a later point in time. We have a scumslip, gentlemen. It's obviously normal that you first list the scum options for a player when your actual opinion of him is that he's town. This is an argument-intention inconsistency I spoke about before. It wouldn't happen to a townie intending to conclude with his belief that the player is actually town. He actually noticed it too late, adding the town option in the following post. ##Unvote ##Vote Risen Lol, jk! His case against me revolves around "buddying" gonzaw very, very, very early in the game and he calls my consistency in not wanting to make reads too early bad. Oh, and then there's my "scumslip" he harps on, but it's not really a scumslip... It's a psych 101 case... or something. Anyways, I've responded to his more recent posts, and I think he's scum. Nothing much else to it... I don't find anyone else in this game nearly as scummy, my vote will be staying on vivax. | ||
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On July 14 2012 04:57 Vivax wrote: Great, you vote for s0lstice based on a meta argument. There's tons of stuff in this game already, but I guess you prefer to use meta and post 6-line-cases instead of actually posting reads based on the material here. Meta looks like a good excuse to be lazy in your case. You'd even make more sense voting for me. And he keeps on feeding it out. Most of your stuff earlier was based on meta and now meta is wrong? We're still in day 1. Contrary to what you think there ISN'T actually much to go on unless someone on the scum team were to slip up. | ||
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Answering Mattchew, there are 2 hours until lynch. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On July 13 2012 05:15 gonzaw wrote: Disclamer: This is the "list" of scummy guys I'm not that comfortable lynching and I'd like people's opinions on them (I think it's likely there is at least 1 scum in here...hell maybe all are scum >_>) About DropBear: I already posted what I think of him: + Show Spoiler [Thoughts on DropBear] + On July 13 2012 04:27 gonzaw wrote: The thing is his behaviour struck me as odd, and I wanted to "get the ball rolling" to see what happened.. Apparently nobody even commented on it, which was what I was expecting to. I was not confident in Dropbear being scum, but I got a feeling he could. Him later just discrediting my FoS, and general aggressiveness doesn't make me very comfortable FoSing him, since it's always more likely townies that do such thing; although I'm still wary of him buddying up to marv there and jumping on the Vivax bandwagon. *sigh* However that's not decisive evidence, yet he's still one of my candidates for scum. I'll reread some stuff and respond to other stuff later (just want to have the unvote right now so I don't have a vote and another one later, and so this post isn't huge) ##Unvote: DropBear About Risen: I already posted why this was weird. He came out of nowhere just to defend himself against me, but doesn't say anything at all about it, just posted a very apparent tautology without saying anything. Another thing I found weird was: He voted Vivax (I assume) because he didn't state why he voted S&B all of a sudden. However, in that 2nd post of his, Vivax already had 2 votes (marv+Dropbear) and Vivax already explained why he voted/unvoted S&B.....yet he doesn't comment anything about it. If he's town, he knows his vote is the most important thing he has (unless he's Awesome Vigilante with Homing Heat-seeking missiles that 100% target scum), so one would think he'd pay attention to things regarding the guy he's voting. Him softly-accusing Dropbear without actually taking a stance in the subject here: And his seemingly apologetic post here (that again is just an excuse for him not to do anything) Make me suspicious of him However, his "kind" attitude and way he's posting make me wary. Like, the way he posts is very weird and would certainly call people's attention....but isn't it too obvious perhaps? Like, it seems he doesn't really care how people see him, which doesn't make me that confident in thinking he's scum. But meh, I'd appreciate people's thoughts on him About Milkton: This post seems fluffy as fuck, specially the 1st part. The "list of game I've played" is filler as well, it doesn't add anything else to the game Even after posting that he doesn't do anything later (is he still "busy" or something?) However it's his first fucking post so it's not like we can get a meaningful read out of it Well fuck, another wall of text So....I'll try to keep things a little bit separate and post my actual "scum reads" in the next post (it's just S&B+austin+Keirathi anyways....yeah SPOILERS whatever). Anything else you find wrong in my case against you? Because cherrypicking THAT out of an entire case is pretty interesting. Looks to me like you're trying to discredit an entire case based upon one small point (and you turned out to be wrong so...) | ||
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On July 14 2012 05:15 marvellosity wrote: I'm just gonna splurge my thoughts a little as I go I find this somewhat hypocritical as s0lstice pushed Miltonkram in his big post after my case, and is now voting Risen himself Exactly. I'm 100% ok with a s0L lynch if people disagree with my case against viv. I really think Viv should be our lynch today, but I don't want a no lynch. | ||
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On July 14 2012 05:19 Vivax wrote: This pretty much sums up how you made your case. Your refutation of my case is amazing. Are people really buying this? | ||
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Vote Vivax now. Please. Look at my case, then look at his more recent posting. He's sketchy as shit and we're not liable to find someone else. Dropbear is NOT as scummy as Viv. | ||
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On July 14 2012 05:22 Keirathi wrote: I will if you will respond to what I said about you, particularly the part involving austin. What about it? I thought he was being scummy b/c who makes a case that big and concludes towny? After logical thinking on my part, this isn't a reason to vote for him. As I said when I originally posted I would be voting for him I was driving and mainly just skimming the thread on my phone. I also like how in order for you to actually do your job as a towny I have to respond to you. Really? | ||
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On July 14 2012 05:29 austinmcc wrote: Torn on Keirathi. He's got some townie-looking posts, but they come only after he was pressured for being too neutral and guarded. Once he posts them, he's mostly checked out. Wishing there was more to work with here. (He posted as I was writing this, need to look back over) Vivax looks scummy in his hopping around, all the meta nometa crap. But Vivax ALWAYS looks scummy to me. I mislynched him in newbie XVI, I found him scummy in LVI (alignment unknown as of yet), and so I don't really want to vote him D1. To me, he's an easy mislynch to push if I'm scum. He's so wrapped up in this person's meta or that person's meta that the scum team should be telling him to knock it off, right? There were plenty of other options for today's lynch, we had so many scattered votes at the start of the day. So why let him keep hanging himself? Don't like it. marv and solstice, how are you seeing Vivax right now? Risen still doesn't look great either. He comes back with a full scum team, an alternate scum in Gonzaw, and finds my finding him townie scummy. No activity --> 5 scum reads, with only a little reasoning backing that up. And now he tunnels Vivax, who again I always seem to find scummy and could see myself trying to mislynch if I were scum. At the moment, I'm willing to consolidate onto Vivax or Risen if needed, but probably not Keirathi in light of his most recent response(s). For now, my vote's going on solstice. Something really bugs me about him finding my early game to match my townie play. Yes, the length is always there, but my early posts were a mess. Gonzaw's right about that, marv is right that they look off. I wasn't pressured at all really in my newbie games, barring XIII which was just an odd game to play in. I think my response to a little pressure here was way off, because while I normally post lengthy, it's not so disorganized and jumbled. Concerned that he didn't pick up on that. That little thing keeps nagging at me enough that I'm willing to vote him. ##Vote: Solstice Seriously? Strongest read: vivax (but apparently he's allllways scummy to austin), but imma vote s0Lstice. They don't write sitcoms this good, folks. | ||
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If vivax flips scum I think austin becomes my top scum read, if austin flips town I think s0Lstice becomes my next top scum read. If austin is scum I think s0Lstice gets a little breathing room and keirathi becomes my next top scumread. I just don't like gonzaw's posting for no apparent reason. He's on this list but I wouldn't vote for him at this point. | ||
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On July 14 2012 04:57 Risen wrote: Vivax: A study on why some people should just quit while they're ahead. Alright, good opener. Nothing too useful, but he's giving his opinion on the miller/mason claim. Better than lurking! His very next post. How can you be an active lurker so early into the game? I initially thought this post was just something to get strongandbig posting. I, however, hate when people do things like this without at least a little solid reasoning. Pressuring people is fine, I do it (or at least I try to) and I'm not worried about that, but I dislike how this is just a single one-line vote following absolutely nothing. Gives credence to the possibility that he's just pressuring people into posting by using his vote as a means. Perfectly fine, and I support this pressure because it's not just "##unvote ##vote miltonb/clurk"... it's milton said he was going to lurk a little but lets add a little fire under his bum for added motivation. At this point I'm thinking, oh yeah vivax is playing pretty townie. Sweet. This is just... what? I don't even know what's going on the first half of this post. Anyways, he finds the person he's played with in the past and says "he's playing different from his meta! He's different!" Umm... how? That's how meta cases work, you find a discrepancy and then you post what said discrepancy is. Also latches onto s0lstice's point about scrib's posting instead of adding to the conversation. More wishy washy "he's different but I'm not going to post anything specific" Continues with "his meta is different just look here!" (gives him an out if someone says well I read it and I'm not seeing anything wonky like you because Viv hasn't actually posted HOW matt is different) So... you grab an extremely specific post about matt bawking at someone making an extremely scummy post and say that b/c he's different now he's moving away from his meta? His meta is a general trend of how he usually plays, if you wanted to use that in a meta argument you'd have to find a post very similar to the one you quoted and make the link between games. For example, if a post in a similar vein was made in this thread and matt didn't do anything about it, THEN you would say he's playing against his meta. OR, if he made a post very similar to the one he made that game in this one you could point to that and say he's playing to his meta. That hasn't happened, there is no meta connection in those quotes you provided. Now you're misusing meta AND scumslip. What gives... Marv, correctly imo, calls out Vivax on his horrible use of meta. Vivax replies with a horrible defense and a soft push on marv. Guess who soft pushes shit? Scum. Why? Because later on they can point to the soft-pushes, the soft-defenses and say "hey! I called him out long ago, that's why I'm joining this bandwaggon!" or "hey! I defended him here, see! I knew he was towny, damn..." after a town flip. More to follow....... ........ ..... .. . Where? Finally! We have a post with conviction! (Even if it IS coming after other people have already voiced suspicion of Milton) Oh... jk... convictions gone. Ermm... ok? Nothing really to go on here since he's just confirming what marv has said and not actually offering anything of his own. See a common thread here? Viv isn't actually DOING anything. Well, I guess Milton is his top scumread still. Lol, jk! His case against me revolves around "buddying" gonzaw very, very, very early in the game and he calls my consistency in not wanting to make reads too early bad. Oh, and then there's my "scumslip" he harps on, but it's not really a scumslip... It's a psych 101 case... or something. Anyways, I've responded to his more recent posts, and I think he's scum. Nothing much else to it... I don't find anyone else in this game nearly as scummy, my vote will be staying on vivax. Seriously? No one is going to respond to this? Viv made a very weak defense that was shot down by me and NOONE ELSE comments on that? You're all saying oh well hmm... I'm still leaning townie on him. WHY?!?! | ||
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On July 14 2012 05:21 marvellosity wrote: I'm not sure I can get behind a Vivax lynch. His scum filter from Newbie XVI is here where he lurked and summarised stuff. Here he is active and pushing stuff, even if he's doing it badly. This is your response to my case? Really? Town marv doesn't completely avoid answering anything I raised in my case by sidestepping it and posting a "meta-read" | ||
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On July 14 2012 05:21 marvellosity wrote: I'm not sure I can get behind a Vivax lynch. His scum filter from Newbie XVI is here where he lurked and summarised stuff. Here he is active and pushing stuff, even if he's doing it badly. On July 13 2012 03:32 marvellosity wrote: i.e. all the talk about meta is a way of contributing without actually contributing | ||
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On July 14 2012 05:49 Keirathi wrote: Now you're reaching. He said talking about meta is a way of contributing without contributing, not that using meta in arguments is useless. I know I'm reaching, but I'm having a really, REALLY hard time believing that marv actually thinks he can use meta on someone who hasn't played that many games. Marv is better than that. I think townies with more experience will agree with me. Where is everyone? Lynch is soon... | ||
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On July 14 2012 05:32 Keirathi wrote: You asked me to update my thoughts on you. How you responded to the most important section of my post has more bearing on my thoughts towards you than your case on Vivax does. I'll agree with you that your case on Vivax has some merit, but I feel like Vivax is playing like the crazy Vivax I've played with before as a townie. Not that that is proof, but its reason enough for me not to vote him today. That's your response. That's your reasoning. My case has merit, but whatever I'm still not voting for him b/c of meta. Got it. So.... viv/marv/keirathi scum team? And where did viv go? Did his team tell him to shut up and stop hanging himself? Literally go through his filter and look at his recent posts leading up to my case and after it. Screw just the thoughts on my case, what do you think of his recent posting? What does everyone else think of the defense of viv by austin/marv/keir? How you could defend him after his recent spate of posting is beyond me. | ||
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On July 14 2012 05:56 talismania wrote: Can you guys just vote DropBear? We need to get some momentum together to avoid the nolynch. No response to anything actually going on in the thread right now? | ||
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On July 14 2012 05:57 Vivax wrote: The case against risen isn't a connection case, and there's not that much logic involved in recognizing the non-committing posting behavior he had before the whole thing against him started rolling, and he started spamming hysterically. You may not appreciate the third point I made against him, the what-i-call-scumslip, let's just call inconsistency now, but his behavior before that was already showing that he wants to avoid conflicts with other townies, by discrediting gonzaws posts and then trying to appease him, avoiding any stance on a player. Now that there's a case against him, he goes crazy and suddenly has a list of suspects, in which he only made cases against one of them, the one who is accusing him. You didn't make a case against me. You said he's lurking and he's being noncommittal (and you threw in some weird scumslip definition) There are a total of two votes on me. Stop trying to make people think I suddenly delurked when you posted your case. That's clearly not what happened. | ||
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On July 14 2012 06:00 talismania wrote: @risen I don't know what to make of the risen v vivax to be honest. I liked your case against him but I'm still stuck on dropbear. and if dropbear is scum I can't see vivax being scum either. mmm I better not be tunneling again like I did last time to HiroPro. You're tunneling. I'm telling you you're tunneling. Just look at viv's recent posting. I'm serious. It is that bad, but no one in this thread seems to be giving it any credit beyond "oh he's playing to his crazy town meta" I'm tunneling too, though. I honestly think my case is stronger than yours tali. Do you feel your case on drop is stronger than my case on viv? | ||
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On July 14 2012 06:11 marvellosity wrote: this is about to sound pathetic, but i got townie vibes from s0lstice saying he was disappearing shortly but then hanging around longer than he should have :/ How is that townie? Isn't that scummy? | ||
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On July 14 2012 06:13 marvellosity wrote: In my experience scum usually take any excuse to not have to post further in the thread, he had his but he came back anyway. Alright, makes sense. I'm going to leave my vote on viv, and if someone needs one more vote (even if it's me) to be lynched I'll move to that person. We need a lynch today, and we need a vote count........ | ||
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talismania Miltonkram Keirathi Vivax(2) Risen sciberbia austinmcc(1) marvellosity sciberbia(1) Mattchew keirathi(2) strongandbig gonzaw s0Lstice(2) strongandbig austinmcc Risen(2) Vivax s0Lstice | ||
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On July 14 2012 06:24 Vivax wrote: Sciberbia, the question: has not been answered. You accused me of jumping on a Risen bandwagon. With zero posts to back it up. You know that if Risen flips scum, that defense is gonna get you lynched next. You lied. I was the first to vote for Risen. It's not a lie to say you hopped onto me. Just b/c you were the first to vote me doesn't mean you were the first to start the wagon. Just means you took advantage of an opportunity presented to you. | ||
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On July 14 2012 06:27 Risen wrote: DropBear(3) talismania Miltonkram Keirathi Vivax(3) Risen sciberbia DropBear keirathi(2) strongandbig gonzaw s0Lstice(2) strongandbig austinmcc Risen(2) Vivax s0Lstice austinmcc(1) marvellosity sciberbia(1) Mattchew From high votes to low. | ||
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DropBear is on Vivax my bad. Sorry about two tallys so close to each other. Tell me if you find any mistakes, mine isn't official, but since there seems to be no host around thirty minutes before the deadline......... | ||
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On July 14 2012 06:31 sciberbia wrote: @keirathi you make some decent points. I find a couple of those points slightly suspicious (disruptive posting, bad case on vivax), but overall I could easily see him as just being a frustrating townie. I'm not convinced Risen is scummy, so I don't share your suspicion there. I'm inclined to believe dropbear that he was ninja'd by marv in his original vote post for vivax. It's just too random of a lie to be made up. As I said, I think his "case" on vivax is a bit too blatant for it to be from a scum. Scum should be careful about making bad cases. That said, I'd be willing to consolidate on dropbear because the only players I find definitively scummier than him (you and Vivax) don't seem to be getting lynched. Vivax is tied with DropBear. People who aren't on vivax have said they find him scummy but being scummy is his meta or something. There is more chance for Vivax to be lynched today than DropBear imo | ||
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Because it's too late and we need to consolidate our votes on someone. Now. | ||
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On July 14 2012 06:36 gonzaw wrote: Okay I'm back Fuck I don't know if I have the time to reread all these last few pages. Very quickly: Is the voting close or not? Is NL already set (as I imagined it would) or is there a candidate for lynch? Is my vote needed right now? Because if so I'll skim these pages very quickly instead of reading them thoroughly Yes it is. Go read my case on Vivax. Then go read the case on DropBear. Choose who you find scummier and vote. Here is votecount as it stands. | ||
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On July 14 2012 06:40 gonzaw wrote: Can keirathi still be lynched? Also wtf marv and mattchew are still voting solstice/sciberbia? Or is that vote count outdated? Marv is on austin. Look at my posted vote count! | ||
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On July 14 2012 06:41 marvellosity wrote: Dropbear is asleep because he's australian afaik Boom. There ya go people, dude was busy and is now in a slumber, don't lynch him. Lynch the person you find scummy but you're afraid to lynch based on "meta" (even though he's a newbie and has a total of 1 scum game)... VIVAX!!! | ||
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On July 14 2012 06:42 sciberbia wrote: OK guys we have to lynch today! I think there is least resistance to a dropbear lynch. I'd be willing to consolidate on dropbear. Is anyone strongly opposed to a dropbear lynch? No. Absolutely not. What is this? What the hell? T_T | ||
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On July 14 2012 06:44 sciberbia wrote: @Risen I'd love to lynch Vivax at this point but there just doesn't seem to be enough support for it. There's not enough support for ANY lynch at this point. | ||
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On July 14 2012 06:47 Vivax wrote: Since noone even sees my case on Risen after his spamming seizure, let's at least get some lynch and hope for the best, but I don't have a good read on this guy, sadly: ##unvote ##Vote DropBear What discomforts me about this is that Milton voted for him, and I find Milton scummy. Hooray! Your reasoning for voting DropBear astounds and amazes all! Dropbear 4, Vivax 4! Neck and neck people! Coming down to the wire!!!!! | ||
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On July 14 2012 06:47 austinmcc wrote: I said I'd consolidate on Vivax or Risen, and I will. ##Unvote ##Vote: Vivax Vivax pulls ahead to 5!!! Dropbear still at 4! Will we see a lynch today?!?!? | ||
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On July 14 2012 06:48 sciberbia wrote: @marv vote vivax already. he has a lot of votes and you're suspicious of him Doesn't want to vote for his scum buddy until it's assured he can't save him | ||
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Vivax 6, DropBear 5! THIS IS IT FOLKS! | ||
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On July 14 2012 06:49 Vivax wrote: Lol Risen, when you're not completely out of control with posting, you start acting like a goddamn salesman. I can honestly say this is probably one of the most hype/fun moments I've had in TL Mafia rofl | ||
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Vivax 6, DropBear 5!!!! | ||
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On July 14 2012 06:54 gonzaw wrote: This is fucking balls, I don't want a NL at all costs, but I doubt Dropbear will get more votes I kind of want to lynch S&B to be honest, I've skimmed these last few pages and he just wasn't active in conversations at all even when active and just posted ARg fucking hell And you get off my fucking back this is not easy, I have to blindly vote one of those 2 without even reading what they posted Well fuck this shit if Vivax flips town it should be a monument of how shitty this day seems ##Unvote: Dropbear ##Vote: Vivax AND THERE IT IS! DropBear 5, Vivax 7! Everyone on DropBear quickly change your minds and suddenly find Vivax scummy! WE'VE DONE IT! THEY WIN THE GOLDEN APPLE! | ||
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On July 14 2012 06:55 sciberbia wrote: oh ow NOW vivax is giving me a really townie feel. Does anybody else see his last two posts as townie? BUT WHAT IS THIS?!?? Dissension in the ranks?!?! Vivax could be saved! Someone could jump ship with only 3 minutes to go! Vivax is pulling against the reigns. WHAT WILL HAPPEN?!? | ||
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On July 14 2012 06:57 talismania wrote: jesus risen why are you so excited? I'm just trying to get this thread hype. I'm probably going to have a coronary if Vivax flips town. | ||
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On July 14 2012 06:58 sciberbia wrote: @marv well it only just became apparent he would be lynched. What do we lose from his claim? He's about to flip... what's the point of a claim... | ||
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On July 14 2012 06:58 gonzaw wrote: There are 2 minutes left, if someone changes their vote to Dropbear I think I'll change it as well. I wish there was more time Ohhhhhh! The seduction! The last ditch attempt to save a dying horse! Noble act? Or nefarious intent. YOU DECIDE! ONE MINUTE TO GO! | ||
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On July 14 2012 07:01 gonzaw wrote: Mattchew fuck you, your vote is still on sciberbia Haha seriously, is that not some serious bullshit? Rofl. | ||
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On July 14 2012 07:03 marvellosity wrote: so fuck you, austin. I have died and been reincarnated... in marvel! | ||
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On July 14 2012 07:05 gonzaw wrote: What a shitty day. Only Vivax flipping scum would lighten it up but I doubt it at this point, specially since S&B/Keriathi/etc all voted Vivax without much incentive (at least from what I read, maybe I missed something when I skimmed it) You think you'll feel bad? I'm probably going to die if Viv flips town to a vig shot.... | ||
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Where is the connection? O_0 ((Unless you're referring to my OMGBALLSTOTHEWALL vote swap. Seriously, my best play in mafia ever)) | ||
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On July 14 2012 07:10 marvellosity wrote: I was referring to the fact Risen did his superscummy vote switch from townie to townie in LIII, and then went on about how he was going to get lynched for it, town did not and he was scum Yup. My greatest moment and I don't think I'll ever be able to match it hahaha. It's something you can only do once b/c forever after you're going to get lynch for it, no matter what. | ||
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On July 14 2012 07:13 gonzaw wrote: Hmm, I'm getting the feeling you are town Risen, you are too invested in the game and really care about the lynch, and you are very active at it and act too "cool" around it. Don't know what Vivax was saying about you being scum, might need to reread. But to be honest these last few minutes tired me, I'll wait for the flip and rest a little bit before rereading the thread from where I left off. I'm physically tired and hungover right now lol. Once I see the flip I'm posting an I-told-you-so or ohshitwtf and going back to sleep. | ||
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On July 14 2012 07:26 gonzaw wrote: We used that to catch your buddy Daniel in LIII so I don't see why not (at least no host got angry at us because of it) Daniel was modkilled, no idea what you're talking about O_0 | ||
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On July 14 2012 12:39 gonzaw wrote: Okay I've been rereading and I noticed something: WTF So Mattchew was active when the whole lynch discussion was going on yet he didn't do shit and didn't even bother on unvoting sciberbia? Wtf? This is just too much. I had him as townie in early game but I can't believe a town Mattchew would do something like this, unless he was somehow hospitalized right after he made that post or something. Damn, I really thought he was town wtf is going on? :/ @Risen: So you are VERY active this day, very confident, spouting whole scumteams, accusing lots of people for defending your scumread (Vivax) and generally being over-confident about it and shit. That seems like a Town VE play (when he plays badly though >_> ). But I can't shake that feeling that you are not actually playing like you said you intended to do. You said you weren't going to call people out and you would be nice, but you didn't seem too nice this last day. Your attitude didn't make me think you'd change your behaviour. Not only that, it seems way too contrasting with your behaviour at the beginning of the game (which was WAY more passive), and that reminds me of LIII where you did something very similar (you were "passive" and shit, but after being called out you started being aggressive and playing to your town meta). You are not that aggressive this time, but there are similarities in your play which make me not go fully with a "Risen is town" feel. Any explanation for this or something to say? I managed to get all heated and not call anyone an idiot or put anyone down. It's progress | ||
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I have no idea. As I said, everything I had revolved around Viv being scum. | ||
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On July 15 2012 06:33 marvellosity wrote: Can't you just say "be suspicious of marv" Risen? Lol, you aren't the only one I don't know why I found this so funny lol. | ||
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On July 16 2012 03:57 talismania wrote: Hmm this is not what I expected you to do actually. I have no read on you, but I don't like this backtrack :/ | ||
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On July 16 2012 11:27 austinmcc wrote: KEIRATHI Please do. And please respond to:At this point, maybe more than one each, and more reasoning. You have been relatively inactive. You are difficult to read because of this. That is not helpful to town. You want to help town, yes? RISEN You basically avoided scumhunting for half of D1. Then you posted a 4 man circlejerk list. TWO of those guys have now flipped town. And now you've avoided scumhunting for half of D2. In fact, the closest thing that you've given us to scumhunting D2 is that you still think Vivax was scum. You are difficult to read because of this. That is not helpful to town. You want to help town, yes? Yeah it's pretty bad sorry :/ I just did a quick read through on my phone and two things jump out. What could I possibly say to confirm myself as towny to you? (whoever said he has one line that p much confirms him as town in my eyes) and Mattchew is my strongest scum read. Dude is playing exactly, in my mind, how he did when we were scum together and he's probably in scum chat going "I'm the best town player this town has" (in his defense, he was probably the best town player town had when we were scum since he called out the entire scum team d1) | ||
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##vote talismania Also, s0L I like how you bring up something I later took back about Mattchew. He went from being town in my eyes to scummy based on his posting style. Is there a reason you're trying to make it look like I'm defending Mattchew when I'm actually calling him scum? | ||
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On July 17 2012 06:32 s0Lstice wrote: I like how you don't have any idea what you are talking about. At the time of my case, you were defending Mattchew. I only brought it up because Dropbear asked me about my thinking at that time. On July 17 2012 05:37 s0Lstice wrote: dropbear- In response to your question about why I voted Risen, I had him along with Milton on D1 on my 'to-kill' list. Nobody was interested in killing Milton, so I went with Risen. I had to leave before all the late movement, so my vote stayed where it was. You find the reasons for my suspicions on Risen suspect, so I'll explain. As far as Risen posting about it being too early to make reads, it has nothing to do with if he is right or not. My point is when he does, or doesn't say it. He actually does say this when he is town too, but in the games I looked at it is more frequent when he is scum. My second part was him being forthcoming/defending his town reads. There is a reason I included both of those words. He did call you out, but he concluded you were probably town. Also, here is him defending Mattchew: My bad, I just assumed you calling me out right there was you painting me as defending Mattchew atm. Sure looks like that's what it is to me. | ||
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On July 17 2012 06:35 talismania wrote: sry broke wrist volleyball been at doctors only type left hand wtf is thids bandwahon? y every game i die becausre of something stupid and then this tinme i get fuckinh injured and miss half a day Sorry about your wrist. I have a few injuries from when I used to play. | ||
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On July 17 2012 06:39 s0Lstice wrote: sorry about your friend Risen. you still stuck at the hospital now? Yeah I'll be here for the day. Turns out Vegas can be dangerous,. | ||
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On July 17 2012 06:55 gonzaw wrote: I'd say go with your own read if it won't matter, at least it will mean you Mattchew, Risen: Are you scum? Mattchew wtf those posts you make are so scummy at times. You park your vote on talis, go AFK for the rest of the day and now you show up all "confident" and still lacking words about anything else. I am not. Mattchew is likely to come in and say I'm scum, though. (Or hell, maybe he comes in with his "I'm the best town player town has swag and claims I'm just bad town, which would be true) | ||
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On July 17 2012 06:57 Keirathi wrote: That's the exact same shit you did on day1 All the conviction until the last minute then suddenly you don't believe it anymore when its already too late to do anything about it. This is very true and I'm leaning more and more town on Keirathi the more I see posts like this,. | ||
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On July 17 2012 06:59 talismania wrote: i should get some time to defend fuckimn onehanded and everything Sorry dude. I honestly shouldn't be voting for you since I haven't built a case on you. My town reads are voting you, though. #whatacopout | ||
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On July 17 2012 14:53 gonzaw wrote: Okay Mattchew, what are those "opinions" of yours now? Reread D2 to find anything interesting to talk about. S&B, Milton/solstice/Keriathi slighly slightly pushing to NL instead of lynching talis (and their previous behaviour), etc. Bored and reading while stopped at a Del Taco lol. I have a hard time believing s0L is scum when he's pressing me like he has been. I don't know about keri/milton | ||
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On July 18 2012 06:53 s0Lstice wrote: Lol, what happened to me being town because I am goin after you hard? Good question........ Damn gonzaw is pretty much confirmed scum in my eyes now that he didn't die last night. | ||
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On July 18 2012 06:59 Keirathi wrote: Err what? Am I missing something in his filter? I read over Night 1 and yesterday again and I don't see that sentiment anywhere, but I seem to remember someone saying it. Bleh guess I'll go back through the thread :o I had said I couldn't believe a townie s0L would play like he has been. Gonzaw not dying clears s0L in my mind. | ||
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On July 18 2012 07:09 austinmcc wrote: gg all. Really enjoyed this game so far. So come on town, mason-buddy, carry it home cuz I haven't won a game yet! I wish you could know the alignment of your mason buddy. Even with whoever it is claiming there's no way to know that he's town. (Unless I'm missing something?) | ||
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On July 18 2012 07:12 Keirathi wrote: I'm hoping he breadcrumbed it. Going to look through his filter and see if I can find something. Also try to find who spent a decent amount of time defending him. No need to breadcrumb it. His convo buddy is a confirmed townie as per the role description. His buddy can claim now and be completely "safe". | ||
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me strongandbig s0Lstice dude whatever it's summer miltonkram dropbear keirathi sciberbia mattchew (completely dependent on gonzaw flip or mason claim) scummy as fuck gonzaw (I'm going to hold that the misspelling of milton's name was a scumslip, also see other cases posted) ##vote gonzaw List order is from town in my eyes to scum in my eyes. If gonzaw flips scum Mattchew becomes scummier in my eyes (unless he's the mason partner in which case confirmed town). I don't think milton is scummy b/c why would his teammates misspell his name. Dropbear and tali beign scum would mean double scum up for lynch d1 and I don't see that as likely. Scib and Keir could be swapped, I can't tell whether my dislike of Keir is b/c he doesn't like me or b/c I genuinely find him scummy. I would really like to claim so if the mason could claim right now I'd be pretty pleased. There's a good chance that with mason claim we might just be winning (regardless of gonzaw alignment) | ||
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On July 18 2012 07:26 s0Lstice wrote: Lol risen you don't have to claim now. Its kind of obvious I know, right >.< Lol. Imagine if I had flipped. You would have been fucked and I would have felt really, really bad XD | ||
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On July 18 2012 07:31 Keirathi wrote: Completely off topic, but this might be my favorite post ever. I'm literally laughing at how blatantly obvious it is. Yeah I was gonna claim regardless of the mason claiming, b/c I think #whatacopout was a bit too blatant. I'm actually shocked scum didn't kill me last night.............. I mean really? | ||
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On July 18 2012 07:42 Keirathi wrote: Since its not LYLO or MYLO, I'm inclined to believe your claim. And I'm pretty sure the other mason isn't Mattchew (like 95% sure). What claim :O lol | ||
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On July 18 2012 07:58 gonzaw wrote: I knew I wouldn't die tonight, that doesn't make me "confirmed scum" Hmm, I don't know if I'll have the time before going to the gym of doing shit, since I'm working a little bit more on Bureaucracy mafia. However, there is one thing you guys can do: Read Mattchew's case, read my filter, and post if you agree that I'm scum or not (if you agree I guess you could vote me maybe) Wait... Was austin masoned with someone? If so...why didn't both CLAIM ON D1????? I'm inclined to think there are either 3 or 1 masons and austin was on his own rather than they didn't choose to get 2 confirmed townies by D1 (I'd like to think of austin not as dumb as that >_> ) Hmm, still doesn't matter right now since they weren't misslynched or killed on N1. Why would mason claim day 1? Millers sure, b/c that would mess with our cops, whoever they are.......... >.> <.< Also, how could you KNOW you weren't going to die? Makes no sense. Unless you got jailed, in which case you should say that and our JK should claim. Just lets us fact check people more easily. | ||
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On July 18 2012 08:08 gonzaw wrote: Mattchew made that "case" against me and some people were starting to tingle with the idea of me being scum Holy crap this bandwagon is worst than I thought. This post right here is so bad Why should we not lynch you? Your flip gives us so much information. If you're scum Mattchew is in a rough spot, if you're town scib/Keir are pretty much dead men (unless mason claim) | ||
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On July 18 2012 08:10 Keirathi wrote: Are you just not reading the thread or just trying really really hard to make it seem like you aren't? Exactly. | ||
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On July 18 2012 08:18 gonzaw wrote: Yes I did, and I didn't understand shit of what happened Okay, I'm not understanding anything here. Can someone please explain to me wtf happened right now? Risen said the mason should claim, then said that he wanted to claim but he didn't, then people took it like he already claimed (making me think he claimed mason) but that doesn't make sense with what he said earlier. Now I'm "confirmed scum" and if I'm scum Mattchew is scum as well (wtf?), and me not dying means solstice is confirmed town somehow. You can see why I am confused as fuck over here. I'd like some explanation. I'm laughing so hard right now rofl | ||
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On July 18 2012 08:55 s0Lstice wrote: Risen, you checked s&b night 1, yes? Yuppers | ||
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s0Lstice was my n2 check, was pretty sure he was scum. I played like I thought he was town so I wouldn't get shot by a scum s0Lstice's team and then right before deadline since I felt my #whatacopout was too blatant for scum to ignore decided to leave my strongest scum read for town to go off of since I figured people would know my n1 check was strongandbig. On July 18 2012 09:52 s0Lstice wrote: Show me what made you check s&b please Risen. I'm not closing my mind to any possibility. I chose him b/c he hadn't posted enough for me to get a strong read and I didn't think anyone would be likely to jail him and if he was town I didn't think he'd be a likely target for scum to shoot. Having a confirmed townie is almost as good as having a scum check returned (would be less but this game could have a framer) On July 18 2012 11:45 Mattchew wrote: I wont lynch Risen, cause A. I have a town read and B. He claimed cop Please dont make me fill in the blanks here Yeah I'm not sure a lynch on me is in the best interests of town but I've become accustomed to this kind of thing. On July 18 2012 11:37 Keirathi wrote: The more I think about it, the more I'm leaning towards a Risen lynch today. With Risen alive, none of his information amounts to a hill of beans, because we can't trust it. The timing is odd. the investigations were odd, and there's no scum result to test with. Plus, since Milton claimed he was RB'd, then I feel like Risen would be RB'd every night and never killed even if he is cop, because the longer he lives, the most suspicious he seems. However, if we lynch him and confirm cop, then s0lstice and s&b are 100% clear for the rest of the game, along with the Mason, and we're at 6v2 with 3 confirmed going into the night. If he fake claimed, then we're down to 7v1 with 1 confirmed. Therefore, I think the best thing we can do today to get a town win is probably a Risen lynch. Anyone else have any thoughts? Why are you neglecting the possibility of strongandbig/s0Lstice being the mason. I'd like to think that the mason isn't one of those two so we have 4 confirmed townies but I now believe one of those two is the mason b/c I haven't seen a mason claim yet. This means only 3 confirmed townies which is still good, but I can wish it was 4. What this post says to me: Hi, I'm Keirathi and I'm scum. This also means that gonzaw is looking a lot better in my eyes, because I can't see Keirathi leading a lynch on me today knowing gonzaw would be the next lynch. Therefor, I will... ##unvote ## vote: Keirathi Sorry for that gonzaw, but I really wanted to see people's reactions to me pushing you hard. #2 on my list of people I'm wary of atm... On July 18 2012 10:28 Miltonkram wrote: Once again I'd like to apologize for not being in the thread for the D2 lynch. I was busy helping my father move and I lost track of time. I'm back now and I'll start a mafia "binge" in a few hours. I was roleblocked last night. I doubt I was blocked by a jailkeeper since I haven't been a huge contribution to the town and I don't see a reason to protect me. If a town-aligned player roleblocked me do we want them to claim? Why did this "roleblocker" not roleblock anyone night one? This looks to me like a fake claim of being roleblocked. (Am I missing something? Did anyone claim being roleblocked from night 1? Why wouldn't they claim that?) Conclusion: I think remaining scum team is Keirathi/Milton or Gonzaw. I think Gonzaw's scumslip was just him seeing it spelled like that previously and then doing the same thing. I almost did it (actually I thought I had spelled his name milkton somewhere, but maybe I corrected it before posting) myself, so I don't actually think that's a scumslip, just a screwup. Mattchew has been playing pretty pro-town and I think he would have gotten behind a Risen lynch if he was scum. It would be all too easy for him to convince people that flipping me gives town the best shot. | ||
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##unvote ##vote: Keirathi | ||
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On July 18 2012 13:35 Keirathi wrote: I'm not negating the possibility, but 1) s0lstice was here so I'm not sure why he wouldn't have claimed already, and 2) I feel pretty certain that the Mason is sciberbia because of how hard he defended austin when austin started getting pressured d1. Still doesn't explain how you could possibly think lynching me was the best idea for town lol. Mattchew pretty much nails it in his post "defending" me. (Is it really a defense if it's common sense?) | ||
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On July 18 2012 13:50 Keirathi wrote: Do VTs get a message saying they were roleblocked? I've never been RB'd as a VT, so I wouldn't know, but I don't see a reason why they would since they don't have a role. From the OP "All roleblocks will result in the target being notified." | ||
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On July 18 2012 13:57 Mattchew wrote: Wait Risen, why dont you think gonzaw is scum anymore? Why would Keirathi (my main scum read atm) push me like that knowing my flip gets gonzaw lynched ezpz. Wouldn't he try and push a lynch on someone else? | ||
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On July 18 2012 14:30 Keirathi wrote: Basically my stance comes down to this: There are 2 options: 1) Risen is actually cop. How do we confirm that he's cop, when he doesn't have a scum read? If he had a scum read, we could lynch the read because we still have 2 mislynches to play with to test his claim. The only way to confirm his claim, and therefore investigations, is if he dies. But what motivation does mafia have to kill him, especially if they have a roleblocker (which we don't know, but Milton claimed, which I admit is suspicious). 2) Risen is fake claiming. How do we confirm? When he dies, which obviously won't happen at night. Even if we lynch gonzaw and he flips scum (which seems likely considering his outburst after the cop claim), that doesn't PROVE that Risen is cop, since Risen doesn't have a scum investigation on him. A fake claim into bussing a teamate isn't completely out of the realm of possibility. Literally the only way for your investigations to mean *ANYTHING* is if you die, which makes me question why you even decided to claim in the first place. I was assuming the mason would claim. Also, I was assuming everyone would catch onto my #whatacopout which was probably a really bad decision in hindsight, but I wanted people to be confident in strongandbig as town. | ||
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On July 18 2012 14:46 Keirathi wrote: I'm not really sure what to think. I think ideally, I would like every single person to tell me that they weren't RB'd n1. If everyone says they weren't RB'd n1, then Milton getting RB'd is extremely, extremely suspicious and basically just told us he was scum. I feel like maybe someone was RB'd though and just didn't know if they should claim it or not. Who would think that? Why would someone be silent on that? That makes no sense... | ||
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On July 18 2012 14:54 Mattchew wrote: Yeah so we should be lynching Gonzaw, cause hes scum What are you thinking about Keirathi? About miltonkram? | ||
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On July 18 2012 15:06 Keirathi wrote: Also I have a hard time believing scum Milton would say he was RB'd when no one said they were night1. It's obviously going to put suspicion on him, so why would he do it? That's some serious WIFOM. Maybe he messed up? Maybe he was hoping to seemingly "add" to the discussion without actually doing anything. I guess it's null, but I don't have very many scum reads and so anything shady is bringing people to the forefront in my opinion. | ||
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On July 18 2012 15:06 Keirathi wrote: Also I have a hard time believing scum Milton would say he was RB'd when no one said they were night1. It's obviously going to put suspicion on him, so why would he do it? You have a hard time believing that and yet you're completely ok with a scum risen claiming cop with two town reads. That makes sense... oh wait no it doesn't #keirathiisscum | ||
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And maybe strongandbig sees it. | ||
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On July 18 2012 23:19 Mattchew wrote: So what is this awesome scum read you have on me based on purely meta again? I just think if Keir is scum you're the only logical partner.maybe gonzaw but I like him :/ Keri is trading himself 1 for 1 here btw guys. If you lynch gonzaw tonight we're still ok, but I really think Keri is scummy as hell. Look at him harping on my "misleading" people. How the hell? I never claimed a check on gonzaw, my posting clearly shows my check was on s0L. He's muddying up the waters to try and trade 1 for 1 since that's about as good as it gets for him now. | ||
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Keir Matt/Dropbear/Milton as his potential partners in my eyes. | ||
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On July 19 2012 06:26 Keirathi wrote: Trading 1 for 1 with you make NO SENSE WHATSOEVER. If I'm scum, and you're cop, then I leave my 1 teamate against 3 confirmed townies. Unless somehow you convince townies that no scum would be that stupid, and then they think of you as confirmed townie, much like I did with poor johnnywup. | ||
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No. He became my top read following his reaction to the gonzaw bus | ||
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On July 19 2012 06:29 DropBear wrote: I think we should lynch Risen. Ok so two things are important. If Milton is telling the truth about the roleblocking and if they are mafia aligned AND if Risen is telling the truth and is sane. A - Both are lying and are the remaining scum. Lynching Risen gets scum. B - Milton tells the truth, Risen lies and is scum. Lynching Risen gets scum. C - Both are telling the truth. Risen won't get another check at all. Mafia will either shoot or block him for the rest of the game. If Mafia decide just to block him and leave him alive, noone EVER gets confirmed. Then it makes Risen look bad and could lead to a shitstorm of mislynching later down the line. Lynching Risen now confirms strongandbig and solstice, tomorrow we lynch through one of the other remaining players. D - Milton lies, Risen tells truth. Risen will almost definitely get shot if there is no mafia roleblocker, so we are going to lose him anyway as there are no medics and evidence so far suggests that there is no jailkeeper. He will almost definitely die. Lynching Risen confirms solstice and strongandbig, tomorrow we lynch through one of the other remaining players. Based on the permutations, I think we should lynch Risen. If there are holes in my logic please point them out! ##Vote Risen I like how this ignores every other player in the game rofl. Dropbear is Keir's partner? | ||
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On July 19 2012 06:32 gonzaw wrote: 1)Ehmm....I thought it was stated somewhere? >_> 2)Will the real mason please stand up? Please stand up? Seriously, we'll get 1 confirmed town today and hopefully get 1 less suspect for the lynch, I don't get why a player that can be confirmed town won't claim mason. At worst we'll 100% know he's town and therefore we can 100% trust his reads and thougths. That will mean people can't cast doubt on him or anything and he could be a leader for town while he's alive. Anyways, Dropbear isn't mason...so he's still a suspect then. Hmm....Mattchew+Dropbear would make sense, although I got some townie feels from Dropbear before. Anyways....I have to go away right now so I still don't have time for that defense >_> In the meantime, I'd like people to read those posts I made and post their thoughts on Mattchew I read your post and keir/drop makes more sense to me than keir/Matt. Also, why are you neglecting the very, very real possibility that one of my confirmed townies is the mason. It's shit like this that makes you look scummy. | ||
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On July 19 2012 06:33 sciberbia wrote: @dropbear I'm not sold on your logic, but you will have to wait a few hours for a response. @Risen I think you are quite biased against Keirathi because he suggested that we lynch you. Could you please explain what makes him so scummy in your eyes? I just don't see how you can be so sure. Look at every one of his posts as if you're me (assume I'm telling the truth and I'm town cop). You then see how scummy his posting looks. If I was one of you I probably wouldn't really see it either, then throw in his self-vote and no scum would do this logic? I don't know if I'd vote him either. No one went with me in ssb64, no one went with me when I was cop w/ confirmed red check, I'm hoping people will just go with me here for once. | ||
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On July 19 2012 06:40 DropBear wrote: Dude there is no way of confirming either claim beyond a flip. I can see absolutely no reason why you have claimed so early, or for your breadcrumb. You were under suspicion from several people and were unlikely to be shot by mafia. Plus you say you had no scum hits so you had no real important information to give by claiming. I have no idea whether I believe you or not and this is as far as I can tell the only way, given the added complication of Milton's claim. That doesn't explain why you ignore completely all other people in this game. Your play of lynching me then shooting another townie tonight leaves enough confusion that a mislynch on a townie tomorrow is a very real possibility. | ||
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On July 19 2012 06:42 Risen wrote: That doesn't explain why you ignore completely all other people in this game. Your play of lynching me then shooting another townie tonight leaves enough confusion that a mislynch on a townie tomorrow is a very real possibility. Thinking about this and Matt/gonzaw are the two lynch candidates tomorrow if you lynch me here and then shoot away from those two. Gonzaw will probably then get lynched and then what? | ||
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If gonzaw is lynched today and flips scum I'm going to be like a rabid dog tunneling you. I really think keir is the scum here, though. Why don't you think keir is scum? Have to plug my computer in still and I'm procrastinating on my case | ||
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want to know why I'm so sure of keir and now drop being scum? they are claiming they want to confirm townies from my lynch, but to me that just means they don't want to be forced to night kill me. I'm a COP. I'm checking one of them tonight. They HAVE to kill me. | ||
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On July 19 2012 08:57 sciberbia wrote: @keirathi: perhaps. I would like to hear risen explain it Nope keir nailed it. I just mixed up bus and wagon when using it. I wanted to see who would jump on the easy case, add to this keir/drop's insistence on lynching me so they don't have to deal with me tonight? Boom. Done deal. | ||
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And what wasn't answered there keir? | ||
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I've been scum with matt before and so I'm probably (read as: I am) being biased because he's so hard to read. | ||
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Matt you should be ok with this since it's 1 for 1 and you get all tomorrow to make a case on who to lynch after you're dead. As it stands, though, my vote is staying on keir because he's in the lead to get lynched and he's my read. If it comes down to one vote I'll vote gonzaw, not otherwise. If I'm alive tomorrow I'll report the results of my check and then we go from there (likely a risen lynch but then we have another confirmed terran or red check) | ||
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On July 19 2012 10:02 Keirathi wrote: Why can't I be scum with gonzaw? If you really think I'm scum, then I'm not sure why the gonzaw flip would matter. I've neither pressured gonzaw nor defended him to any extent. Well if you manage to dodge a lynch I'm checking you tonight and after matt is lynched I think town will be able to get its act together and lynch you. | ||
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To explain further: your connection to a scum gonzaw is weaker imo than matt's | ||
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On July 19 2012 10:10 Keirathi wrote: This is what I don't like about you claiming early before you had to if you really are cop. You've given scum ammunition. You've laid out your plans for what you want to do. What if the mafia has a framer? You just told them who you were going to check. What if mafia has a roleblocker? They have no reason to ever kill you if they can just relegate you to "extremely suspicious VT" for the rest of the game until you die. If they can keep you alive until the LYLO day, then they've basically won anyways. Those are real possibilities and bummer if that's how it plays out. Town needs to play with the information they have, though, not pure speculation from you. Please kill keir, he's such a fluff... | ||
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On July 19 2012 10:13 Miltonkram wrote: I think it's possible that Risen and austinmcc engineered a fakeclaim play to try and draw out scum. This would allow the timing of Risen's cop claim to make sense. @ Risen This possibility popped into my head and I just need to get an answer. Risen are you fakeclaiming cop and are you the mason? At this point, if you are the mason I'd just like you to claim since this cop claim has taken up so much of the discussion today. Lol, I want to fake claim mason so bad just to see what happens when I'm lynched and flip cop after the real mason reveals himself. You guys would freak out post game, and I might catch a ban for throwing. But no, just a cop rofl | ||
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On July 19 2012 10:22 Keirathi wrote: So, another question for Risen: What will you do moving forward if I am lynched today and I don't flip scum? I'm not even asking you to believe that I'm not scum, just from a purely hypothetical context, I would like you to explain what your next course of action would be. You were so convinced Day 1 that Vivax was scum, and you were wrong and then disappeared and "grieved" over how wrong you were. Will it be the same? I'll check gonzaw tonight and if I'm alive move on from there. Scum check = push him, get myself lynched, then pray for gon/matt lynch. If town check I freak out, break down into gibberish and eat my hat. | ||
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On July 19 2012 10:29 Miltonkram wrote: @ Risen Ok, thanks for the quick answer. I reread Mattchew's case against gonzaw. I think he's onto something. I'd advise everyone to look at it. My reads have shifted like crazy over the course of the day. For now I'm going with Keirathi and Risen both town and gonzaw scum. If I find any new evidence to add while reading gonzaw's filter (ugh) I'll post it. Noooooo it's workingggggg, his suicide pact and lynch the cop play have convinced people not to vote for him. Howwwwwwww | ||
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On July 19 2012 10:39 s0Lstice wrote: and just for the record I think Risen is his scum buddy. but we'll return to that after Mattchew is dead. Same thing I said about gonzaw applies here. I'll lynch matt if you promise to lynch gonzaw if he flips red and keir if he flips green. | ||
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On July 19 2012 10:44 s0Lstice wrote: oops misunderstood. no i will not promise to lynch gonzaw after lynching matt Then good luck getting my vote on him, and as a townie I'm one of the votes you'll need. | ||
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On July 19 2012 10:53 s0Lstice wrote: i'm campaigning for town votes dude not scum votes You're lucky I know you're town and understand where you're coming from lol | ||
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On July 19 2012 11:20 s0Lstice wrote: EBWOP: sorry that wasn't fair. I'm being a dick now. I should really go to bed I hope to see lots of matt votes when I wake up Whoever ends up flipping you'll come around to my way of thinking. I hereby dub thee igrok the second. Thankfully, unlike with him your insistence on having the game figured out won't lose us the game. | ||
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On July 19 2012 12:55 Keirathi wrote: Miller thing? I ctrl+f'd miller on this page and the only result was your post just now mentioning it? Mason. Damnit I'm bad with words this game. | ||
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On July 19 2012 13:07 sciberbia wrote: @Risen I think he should at least answer the framer question. And he told us there was 50% chance of SK (which he really did not have to do) so maybe he can tell us about the possible mafia roles. I'm assuming you read the OP and now know there has to be another mason. | ||
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On July 19 2012 12:41 gonzaw wrote: It would also make sense from a balance aspect. If Risen and Milton are scum, then there would only be 1/2 Masons (really, if no mason claims soon I'll assume there was only 1 mason and austin lied for some reason when he died), meaning scum would need to have 2 Goons (since town have little blues) based on the "similar" C9+ setup (even if it's not exactly like C9+, it's similar, if town has more blues scum have more powers, if town has less blues scum have less power), meaning they don't have a RBer. We have 3 lynches to catch 1 scum right? Mattchew->Milton->Risen (if Milton flips scum) would be a good "lynch sequence" I think. Oh forgot about Dropbear. Aw damn now I need to reread his filter ##unvote ##vote: gonzaw You deserve this lynch, town OR scum. | ||
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On July 19 2012 14:30 sciberbia wrote: what happened to mattchew + gonzaw being scumbuddies? I can't justify anything on him based purely on meta like I am. After I die tonight it will be up to remaining town to correctly find scum and I don't think my suspicions contribute anything to the discussion. Also, it happened. Lost my cool. Mission failed. | ||
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On July 19 2012 15:50 gonzaw wrote: EBWOP: "like Risen said it did, but..." Lol, all this makes me think is you're trying to paint me as bussing you. | ||
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On July 19 2012 23:39 strongandbig wrote: Hmm. That is true. What is the case on risen? My reasons for being suspicious of him are mostly that he let everyone think he had a scum investigation on Gonzaw and that Gonzaw was his top scum read, which was apparently a lie. However I'm not willing to lynch him for that yet. The fuck? It should be a requirement that people have 3rd grade reading comprehension when playing mafia. How about you go reread what I said then come back here and say I misled people. I ever, NEVER gave any indication of a red check on Gonzaw | ||
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On July 20 2012 01:16 DropBear wrote: Ok I'm moving on from Risen, I want to lynch Keirathi. There are five main points against him for mine. 1. Firstly, he backs up and sheeps tali's case against me on day 2. 2. His avoidance of voting for tali day 2. He clearly doesn't want to vote for tali, but doesn't give any other options. Not only this he puts in a martyr at the end. 3. So who does he vote? Who does he vote? sciberbia, the first person to make a case against tali. 4. Next he jumps rapidly onto the gonzaw bandwagon. Sole reasoning here. Note that a lack of explanation behind a vote was a key reason he voted for me on day 1, this is a double standard. 5. Lastly his ragequit. If he was actually a townie, he's arguing for a deliberate mislynch here. He mentions the real scum a lot, but his lynch plan was the same as mine, lynch Risen to confirm two townies. No scumhunting there. Also, I have only seen a ragequit like this once before; ilovejonn in mafia 39 who was scum and was backed into a corner so this is what he did. ##Unvote ##Vote Keirathi Dropbear cleared in my mind. Long hair don't care let's get this man lynched! [/b]##unvote ##vote: keirathi[/b] | ||
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##vote: keirathi Oops. | ||
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On July 20 2012 02:01 strongandbig wrote: so the deadline is in ~5 hours, we should be thinking about consolidation. I would be willing to vote for, from most preferred to least, the following people: - Keirathi - Gonzaw - Milton or DropBear I think Matt and Sci are town, and for the moment I'm accepting Risen's claim at least until we see the flip and NK. If keir flips green what is your plan? I think I have something posted somewhere. | ||
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On July 20 2012 02:02 sciberbia wrote: Guys I really don't think keirathi is a good lynch. Read his filter back to front. There really isn't anything that scummy and a few things feel townie. Point 1 - really not that suspicious Point 2 & 3 - okay yea he made a bad read. he got caught up on the idea I was scum and talis was not. It still feels townie though. s0Lstice seems much more suspicious for originally "strongly agreeing" with the cases against talis and then getting cold feet after 1 minor point from miltonkram point 4 - he understandably misread risen's claim point 5 - I grant this is somwhat suspicious His tone of posting since D2 just feels townie to me. Overall, I just don't see enough evidence to warrant a lynch. My read is based entirely on his day 3 play. Seriously who lynches a cop claim when the cop is either going to die that night or come back with another check then get lynched the next day? | ||
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On July 20 2012 02:05 sciberbia wrote: Literally everybody think gonzaw is scummy. I think we should start voting him now. Vote Keir #1 martyr/cop killer scum. | ||
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On July 20 2012 02:09 sciberbia wrote: @Risen There is some logic to it. You have to consider the very strong possibility that you survive the night but say you were roleblocked. Then what do we do? If I live through the night and am roleblocked you lynch me and get confirmation on scum having a roleblocker when I flip cop. I don't see any other option there. | ||
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On July 20 2012 02:10 strongandbig wrote: sigh. DOUBLE FUCKING SIGH. Either milton is scum or there's a roleblocker (or both, possibly but unlikely). Or there's a Jk or he's claiming he was rb'd and scum withheld their rb last night, will use it on me tonight and "clear" milton | ||
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On July 20 2012 02:20 Keirathi wrote: Not really anything to say about this. Yes, I did. I didn't give any other options? I posted my thoughts on sciberbia BEFORE i made that post. I mentioned I was out of town. I get back to the thread with 7 votes on my teamate (if we're assuming that I'm scum here). Why wouldn't I just hop on the wagon? Why would I go after the person attacking him? I mean, there was no way scib was going to get lynched at that point. So what would be the benefit for me as scum to even make a case or vote him? What can I say? I think hopping on someone for no reason is dumb. I obviously thought gonzaw was a red check from the cop. He keeps saying that that was never his intent, but thats what I thought when I read his claim post. You are right, I was arguing for a deliberate mislynch. Because I didn't (and maybe now still) believe that the whole Risen vs me situation isn't going to resolve until one of us dies. And, despite Risen constantly saying otherwise, I think the mafia will do whatever they can to keep him alive for absolutely as long as possible. [/QUOTE] Nice try, but in this post Keir pretty much tells us he knows scum has a role blocker (how could he know this? He's scum) | ||
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On July 20 2012 02:24 Risen wrote: Nice try, but in this post Keir pretty much tells us he knows scum has a role blocker (how could he know this? He's scum) Fixed? | ||
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On July 20 2012 02:31 Keirathi wrote: Basically what I'm saying is that if they DO have a roleblocker, they have no reason to ever kill you. If they have a framer, they don't have much reason to kill you tonight unless gonzaw is scum since you already made it clear you plan to investigate him when I die. Lol wtf is this? If you're town you're doing a horrible job defending yourself. If they have rb I claim rb'd and get lynched tomorrow to confirm. If they have framer he better do a good job of guessing bc a smart cop will place his investigations where they aren't expected when there's a possible framer. Night one I almost literally threw a dart at a board of people to determine my check. If there is a framer and they want to let me live he and I will be doing the dance of wifom. | ||
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On July 20 2012 02:40 s0Lstice wrote: Except you barely talked to s&b all day. You said it was because you were avoiding attention from him. So which is it? What? I chose strongandbig nearly at random from a list of people who I felt weren't doing much that would make them targets n1. I chose s0L n2 bc I genuinely thought he was scum. If you think I'm going to just sit here and actually tell the thread prior to the dawn zone who I checked you're bonkers. | ||
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On July 20 2012 02:54 Mattchew wrote: woops I rushed.. It is unlikely Milton was jailed* ... The post has the same message Wtf no it doesn't. Matt is the second scum? How could Keir possibly trust Milton's claim 100% What a screwup. | ||
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##vote gonzaw If he's red I no longer want Matt lynched. I don't think he'd bus THIS hard. Also, I'm not being thick the message isn't the same bc you were just defending keir then swapped his name with miltons and said the message was the same. No it isn't, you're shady as fuck if Gonzaw flips green. | ||
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On July 20 2012 03:11 s0Lstice wrote: The bolded is you saying that during N1, you chose almost at random who to check. Now look at this: Either you made your decision on who to check day 1, and didn't speak to him for fear of getting shot, or you decided at random on N1 to s&b, which you are asserting now. What the fuck are you talking about? I was gone for almost all of day 2 and how would I talk to strongandbig that makes no sense. I see no contradiction anywhere | ||
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On July 20 2012 03:17 Mattchew wrote: Do you think Milton or keir would be jailed (Aka doc protected) Where does this shit about Keir being jailed even come from. Seriously you're going into full on sketchy as fuck mode | ||
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On July 20 2012 03:19 s0Lstice wrote: I want to lynch you Matt. I've made a case, and pushed people, but they don't agree. Oh well for now. If it's not you then I'd be cool with killing Risen. The more Risen talks, the worse his cop claim looks. Do you want to kill Risen? You're a joke. I come out and confirm you as town, guarantee I'm getting killed tonight, then you say hurt Derr let's lynch the cop claim. Fuck you I'm done with this shit game. | ||
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On July 20 2012 03:20 Mattchew wrote: Answer the question... Do you think at any point this game Milton or kerathi would be jailed? Cause if not the point of my post is the same.. If you believe miltons claim then you logically believe it was a scum rb I don't know what to think of his claim. I havent checked him. I think it's a sketchy claim considering we have scrub with his bullshit hurt durr maybe I was rb'd hurr durr and no rb claim from n1 | ||
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On July 20 2012 03:30 s0Lstice wrote: Did nobody else consider the fact that Marv could have been RB'ed + NK'd on night 1? happens all the time Good to see that you've read my filter (hint: keyword is divine, ctrl+f it!) Also finding gems in my filter lol On July 16 2012 04:41 Risen wrote: I have no read on you, but I don't like this backtrack :/ Also, rereading my filter and I'm convinced more now than ever keir is scum. | ||
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On July 20 2012 03:55 Keirathi wrote: @Risen: How does that quote have anything to do with me being scum? I'm genuinely curious because I can't see your logic leap. And if that's not why you quoted that particular post, then why did you? I laughed at finding my post on tali in my filter and posted it. Has nothing to do with you. Just tells me I should go with my gut feelings more, maybe. Idk I didn't even really know what was going on d2 due to outside things going on and then having to drive home. Wish this day would end and someone would flip so I can see if I'm right. Don't really care about anything but seeing the obs qt at this point. I can only see this going three ways. I'm lynched today, I'm killed tonight, or I live tonight and get lynched tomorrow. No real reason to put any effort in since no one ever listens to anything I have to say, regardless of my being right. | ||
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On July 20 2012 04:20 Keirathi wrote: That's the part I'm worried about. No matter how much I've argued with you, I'm still not convinced that you are lying, I just don't understand WHY THE HELL YOU CLAIMED IN THE FIRST PLACE. Seriously, whatever justification you've given, its all dumb. So lynching you tomorrow, especially if don't get scum today, is a terrible consequence of you just making a bad play. Yup. | ||
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Regardless, I'm about 80% sure you'll flip green ill get shot and town will derp an easy win into a loss. | ||
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On July 20 2012 05:47 Keirathi wrote: Also I just want to say again that Mason: I hate you. Yup, this too. Hey derp mason so worried about getting shot, they have to kill me tonight not you. I can only see you not outing yourself bc you think I claimed to draw you out, which is stupid considering I would be trading myself for you. Im super mad if mason claims and isn't on my confirmed town list, bc it's a p easy win for us if you had just claimed. Less mad if you're in confirmed town list since it wouldn't matter as you're already confirmed town. | ||
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On July 20 2012 06:03 Miltonkram wrote: @ s0Lstice I've considered the Mattchew lynch. There are things about his play that don't sit well with me, but I've given him the BOTD because his case against gonzaw was pretty good. If you can drum up support, I'll consider him. >.> <.< | ||
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##vote: mattchew I am doing this solely because of the unbridled rage this will induce in matt should he be scum rofl. If he's town he'll just write it off as town being derpy town. | ||
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On July 20 2012 06:34 sciberbia wrote: @risen wtf kind of reason is that? Do you think he is scum or not? Play to win please Reasoning: he buddied me too hard and in doing so defended keir. Chugga, chugga, chugga, chugga, CHOO, CHOO! | ||
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Only you can prevent a no lynch, vote yourself today! | ||
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On July 20 2012 06:37 Keirathi wrote: As much as I'm unsure about today, I feel a little stronger about Mattchew than gonzaw. Unvote Vote: Mattchew Fix your vote and add ## right now, please. | ||
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On July 20 2012 06:53 strongandbig wrote: This is pretty stupid risen, what the fuck are you doing. if you're town idk what the fuck you're doing. if you're scum idk what the fuck you're doing either. like, if you think matt is town then fucking switch to gonzaw. pretty sure we should be lynching gonzaw now guys. this thing where he complains about how TL mafia is going to stop loving him doesn't smell right to me. And no lynch? No Ty sir. You'd have to convince another wife to swap. Really, though, this is good. Matt dies, I get shot tonight, town rolls around twitching and we all laugh in obs qt about it. | ||
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On July 20 2012 06:55 sciberbia wrote: @keirathi, @miltonkram, @risen Are you sure you guys aren't just being influenced by gonzaw's loud defense and you just feel less guilty about mislynching mattchew? Are you sure mattchew is actually more likely to be scum? The only way I ever saw a scum Matt was with scum gonzaw. Ergo, gonzaw more scummy. | ||
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On July 20 2012 06:57 Keirathi wrote: I haven't really found gonzaw scummy all game until today, and most of that was because of his early play after Risen claimed cop. I did, however, think Mattchew was scummy yesterday, and nothing he did today made him look more townie. I still think you are tied in with him too hard because he's been buddying you and copied your reads. You WOULD say that scum >.> | ||
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On July 20 2012 06:58 Mattchew wrote: Its called a numbers game you die, flip scum 7-1, 7 town, 3 with risen, so therefore scum lay within 4 people, keirathi, drop, milton, scib. scib is pretty obvious town, i shoulda known that leaving 3 people Guess you should have jumped on the Keir train then. GODSPEED MATTCHEW, AND MAY THE OBS QT THREAD BE WELCOMING TO YOU. I'll be there soon, brother. | ||
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Yup he's town ahahahahaha | ||
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On July 20 2012 07:04 s0Lstice wrote: Risen is not confirmed town. stop that Yes, yes, I threw my partner under the bus at the last second even though I could have no lynched. URIGHT | ||
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Gonzaw is the one who isn't confirmed in my book. | ||
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Keir........ God bless America but I think you might be town. | ||
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On July 20 2012 07:10 Keirathi wrote: Is that so impossible to do? Buy yourself some town cred, and all. However, there's no way in hell you get lynched tomorrow, and probably not the day after. If you live that long, you are a person to be looked at again. Why on earth wouldn't I bus Matt tomorrow and get the free kill on gonzaw today? When saying I'm scum you guys don't make any sense......... | ||
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On July 20 2012 07:12 Keirathi wrote: I'm not really sure where you're going with this? WBG came into the thread and said framers can do both, but can't self-target. If Risen is cop, then S&B and s0lstice are 100% clean. You are 100% correct. ##lynchgonzaw2012 | ||
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On July 20 2012 07:13 s0Lstice wrote: i am not johnnywup, Risen I'm going to give you a fair shake I promise, but your filter is first on the to-do list for me tomorrow Hah, dude anyone with their head on straight that game saw that with the two claims in the thread I had to be scum no matter what. Johnnywup made a huge error, these situations are way, wayyyyyyyy different. | ||
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On July 20 2012 07:14 Keirathi wrote: EBWOP: Wait... S&B && S0lstice 100% confirmed town, UNLESS Risen is a townie fake claiming cop. The jig is up! I fake claimed cop guys. It worked, tough! | ||
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On July 20 2012 07:17 Keirathi wrote: What. Yes we can. Matt was a GOON. That means if the last scum is a framer, they couldnt target themselves. So there are 2 options: 1) Risen is a cop, and both of his checks are legit. 2) Risen is the 3rd mafia. Option 3) Risen fake claimed and gave his two strongest town reads green status. | ||
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On July 20 2012 07:19 Keirathi wrote: Actually, there is a 3rd option. There is a cop-immune SK that hasn't attacked anyone yet, or doubled up both nights. I find this extremely unlikely at this point though. You're right. 4 options. | ||
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On July 20 2012 07:20 strongandbig wrote: oh wait it was a joke i hope honestly risen you've derped enough that i would believe it C'mon, though. For not actually being a cop I did pretty good at claiming one lol. s0L would be sketchy in my book if he hadn't been on Matt. | ||
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On July 20 2012 07:21 strongandbig wrote: wait it wasn't a joke? fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck and solstice and i were your strongest town reads?????? Relax. Relax. We have 4 confirmed townies now and just need to stay calm and kill everyone else. | ||
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On July 20 2012 07:22 strongandbig wrote: honestly i really hope this is a gambit to get scum not to shoot you tonight Lol | ||
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On July 20 2012 07:23 strongandbig wrote: why were solstice and i your strongest town reads that doesn't make any sense like i'm townie as fuck but i wasn't pushing tali hard like sciberia was and solstice is scummy as all get out risen you make no sense Gonzales is my #1 scum read ATM followed by scib then drop | ||
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On July 20 2012 07:23 strongandbig wrote: how do we have four confirmed townies? Everyone on Matt except gonzaw. Spell correct thing changed his name rofl | ||
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On July 20 2012 07:23 gonzaw wrote: Okay, these are the possibilities: Remaining scum role:
Conclusion: No matter what role scum has, solstice and S&B are confirmed town Unless there is a JK who DIDN'T JAIL ANYBODY ON N1 (which I find very hard to believe) AND one of S&B or solstice is GF. I find this unlikely though, but we'll find out in tomorrow's massclaim! This is true. However, the reason they're confirmed town is bc they were on Mattchew. | ||
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Risen
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On July 20 2012 07:25 gonzaw wrote: Ehmm.... WTF RISEN IT WORKED OUT IN THE END! 2nd nomination for best play mafia 2012? C'mon kids, give it to me. Matt has to be steaming so much right now lol | ||
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On July 20 2012 07:29 gonzaw wrote: Meh yeah it's possible he did it to avoid getting shot by scum tonight, let's just ignore it until tomorrow. If I get shot tonight will you nominate me for best play? | ||
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Risen
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On July 20 2012 07:31 gonzaw wrote: Depends on what you flip VT lol. I'm not scum and I'm assuming there's no sk. If theres an sk we're in a world of trouble and I'll nominate HIM for best play. | ||
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On July 20 2012 07:40 strongandbig wrote: im just going to assume this is a gambit to get scum not to shoot him tonight that way my rage will decrease enough to allow myself to sleep Is this because you're no longer a cool kid in the "confirmed" crew? This posting looks really suspicious. Combine that with you not voting Matt? | ||
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On July 20 2012 07:44 strongandbig wrote: ##whatashittybreadcrumb In my defense, I had been gone all day 2 and it was really the only way I wasn't getting lynched day 3 lol | ||
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On July 20 2012 07:47 Keirathi wrote: So you can get lynched day4 instead? If you don't die tonight, then I hope to god that town is smart enough to lynch liars. Wtf I got Matt lynched the only one who voted for Matt and isn't confirmed is gonzaw bc he was up for lynch too | ||
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On July 20 2012 08:06 strongandbig wrote: did you forget about the bus day 1? being on board with the mattchew lynch doesn't make anyone confirmed town in my eyes, except maybe solstice. Lol really now. You're just sounding ultra scummy here speculating about that. Any of us except gonzaw could have sat on our gonzaw vote and gonzaw would have been lynched not Mattchew. You're reaching here bc you're looking scummy as shit since you're one of the guys who wasn't on mattchew. | ||
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Nice find lol | ||
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On July 20 2012 08:18 s0Lstice wrote: s&b is absolutely right Risen. my filter was pretty dodgy for the first two days. you saying I was a strong town read seems like a lie, just like your cop claim was a lie. I really don't see any reason to not lynch you tomorrow. I said I would go through your filter, and I will, but your desperate thrashing about is proof in the pudding. now you are calling s&b scummy? just lol I reread your filter and got a more town feel from you after you didn't die. | ||
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On July 20 2012 08:53 Keirathi wrote: @Risen: I really don't like how you're trying to claim credit for the lynch. Play of the year? Fuck no. We lynched Mattchew DESPITE you, not because of you. Lol I'm pretty sure I'm the one who made the crucial swap. | ||
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On July 20 2012 09:05 Keirathi wrote: On someone you didn't even think was scum. Swapping to avoid a no-lynch doesn't win you any credit. Lol gonzaw was getting 5 when I swapped. Someone else would have gotten on him. Honestly where's gonzaw if you're town you should be backing me up here | ||
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On July 21 2012 06:25 sciberbia wrote: @risen I thought about that, but there is no way in hell scum is gonna let you get that check off. You were 100% getting either killed or RB'd Makes sense. Also, what could possibly posses anyone to say "maybe he's just trying to get the last scum to not kill him" DURING THE NIGHT. Wtf... Don't give scum ideas like that even though I was probably getting shot regardless | ||
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I was pissed. Would have been more pissed if I got shot tonight, though I'm a little less pissed due to everything working out in the end. | ||
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On July 21 2012 06:30 Keirathi wrote: @Risen: did you see where I said I intentionally antagonized you during the night to try to keep you alive!? You were a hero of the night man. When we were arguing I was like THIS! DO THIS PEOPLE! | ||
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On July 21 2012 06:33 gonzaw wrote: Yeah, that was basically what made me doubt my read on him IF YOU GUYS HAD JUST READ MY POSTS YOU WOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT! >_> The only way I read you as scum was if Matt was scum, which is why I was happy with either lynch. Matt just came off as his protown scum meta to me. That's why I think he's probably pissed we ended up lynching him. My whole thing on him was that he was too townie and hadn't done that much scummy shit which most townies inadvertently do. | ||
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On July 21 2012 06:36 sciberbia wrote: If dropbear really is the last scum, I feel like he still had a chance. shoot s0Lstice tonight lynch risen --> shoot scib lynch gonzaw --> shoot s&b comes down to dropbear/miltonkram/keirathi not impossible is it? There's no way I'm getting lynched today. There's no way gonzaw is lynched tomorrow. Why lynch the people who were on Matt? Get the ones who weren't on him first. | ||
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On July 21 2012 06:38 Keirathi wrote: If Drop was the last maf, I'm pretty sad that we didn't lynch him day 1 Vivax was so obviously playing his town meta, and Drop had literally 0 actual case in all the posts that he talked about Vivax. I find it disheartening that i lynched viv without looking at his meta and Matt by only looking at his meta lol | ||
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On July 21 2012 06:40 s0Lstice wrote: what was with all that die townie die stuff right before the lynch? im berry curious Just me trying to live through the night. | ||
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On July 21 2012 06:52 sciberbia wrote: What I really don't get is why Mattchew continues to bus his teammates as scum if not only does it lose him teammates, but people also find him MORE suspicious for doing it. If I ever roll scum (not likely) and bus one of my teammates, I'd at least hope to get some mega-serious townie-cred out of it. That's mattchew, though. He calls out ANYONE who makes scummy moves, whether they're on his side or not. | ||
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On July 21 2012 06:55 Keirathi wrote: Also @Risen: Can you please finally give a good answer for why you breadcrumbed and then claimed? I still think claiming was absolutely the worst thing you could have done because 2 green checks . Even if you had been killed and flipped cop without specifically saying "I have green checks on S&B and s0l", people would have picked up on it from your filter. Now that you are in the open, the information literally means NOTHING. Don't worry about being NK'd so much. As long as you've breadcrumbed your information a bit, then stay behind the scenes. I would have lynched you yesterday no questions asked, if other people had been willing to vote you, solely because the claim made no sense. It makes even less sense from a scum perspective imo b/c all it does is 1 for 1 trade at best. Anyways, I claimed b/c if I was town I would have lynched a Risen who was gone all day 2 unless he claimed something. Being a lurker is actually what I do as scum until later in the game. | ||
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On July 21 2012 06:58 s0Lstice wrote: I owe you a sorry Risen for reading you so very, very wrong. I'm glad I got it right last game though lol No need. I played really bad this game. I had the hospital thing (unexpected) and the driving to and from vegas thing going on (expected) and thought it wouldn't affect me as much as it did. | ||
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On July 21 2012 07:02 sciberbia wrote: mason QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/encxyjxwVujm7 Rofl | ||
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"the reasoning behind my lynch is so fucking bad and people are going to feel so good about it its called luck" AHAHAHA I KNEW IT | ||
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On July 21 2012 07:03 Risen wrote: No need. I played really bad this game. I had the hospital thing (unexpected) and the driving to and from vegas thing going on (expected) and thought it wouldn't affect me as much as it did. For those in the obs QT who think I think too highly of myself. I know I played a horrible game, but the only way I could think of that I was going to survive was by going ape shit in thread. <3 | ||
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On July 21 2012 07:29 gonzaw wrote: Thank god I was able to read Risen correctly >_> I still had doubts about his alignment because he can do any play as scum and could have done that play as scum, but I didn't see the "obvious" scum benefits in it as if he was actually town. I thought I played well in D3? I tried to post reasons and reasons for why Mattchew was scum, why Risen was a bad lynch, and why Keirathi was town (all accurate ones), yet nobody seemed to listen to me. I had more doubts of Milton than Dropbear because of how easy he sheeped Mattchew, which made me think the scum team was desperately trying to get me lynched. Also, what really made me an "easy target" like everybody was saying in the obs QT? I really didn't get why people were so suspicious of me, I honestly don't. You had so many cases. Sooooo manyyyyy casessssss. That and matt's tunneling of you made me suspicious of you both. | ||
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On July 21 2012 07:37 NoSmurfHere wrote: the only reason you suspected Mattchew was because of OMGUS. Literally. If you hadn't noticed, you almost died on the previous day, but survived kind of luckily (still not really sure how that happened given that half the townies said Mattchew was town) For example, look at this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351147¤tpage=15#284 massive wall of text that no one really wants to read. All 3 reads are wrong. (Austin, SnB, Keirathi) (and in the previous post you list 3 different guys who you all think might be scum: DB, Risen, Milkton. 1/6) Also, some of your opinions were just flat-out bad, especially the mason one. Masons don't claim at the start of d1. You could've been mislynched for this because it's very antitown to say "no one discusses this, masons claim now, and if they claim later they're scummy". The fact is that nowhere in any guide does it say masons must immediately claim. In fact, in many cases it's a waste of the role. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351147¤tpage=19#367 another post indicating you not reading the thread, yet still posting shit. Simple fact of the matter is that if you haven't understood the setup, stop posting until you do. It's not hard: just read the damn OP. Everyone else managed to do that except you, yet you continued to post pages upon pages of misinformed garbage. This post sums it up: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351147¤tpage=19#368 When you post the way you did on d1, people can't help but call you scum. Finally, regardless of whether some of your reads were right, I have the same problem with you that I have with other people who claim undue credit for reads: for most of the game you tunneled townies such as Keirathi and strongandbig. In addition you had very large lists of players you found scummy, and very rarely did it seem like you were paring these reads down. Thus if you find 8 players scummy and ultimately 2 of them are actually scum it's not impressive at all given that there are only 3 scum and 12 players besides yourself to begin with. I feel like a lot of this applies to me as well >.> | ||
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On July 21 2012 07:51 NoSmurfHere wrote: anyone would've been an easy mislynch given a scum who knew what he was doing. I've done it myself in similar situations. If you don't believe me, read Mini X. I rolled scum in that game and I won 7v1 after my only scumbuddy died d1. It wasn't an identical situation given that DB had to deal with some confirmed townies, but he also had the advantage of having a scumbuddy that could've lived the previous day. You + Gonzaw + keirathi + milton could've all made mislynches at some point or another. The order in which it would've happened is of little significance (although I agree that it would be optimal for the remaining scum to kill you later rather than sooner). Also DB had assigned sciberbia for the kill, so the confirmed mason would've died. You would've had no fallback. I'm confused as to how he could have possibly, POSSIBLY convinced ANYONE to not lynch him. Scib flips and is confirmed green, sab is confirmed green when I stop screwing around and declare that I'm actually cop during the last hour before day and when day comes I confirm that I'm roleblocked. Who would ANYONE lynch in that situation, the only non-"confirmed" person left in the game aka Dropbear. If Dropbear flips green and I don't die another night THEN I get lynched. You don't lynch the people who killed mattchew and made it possible. | ||
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On July 21 2012 07:57 Keirathi wrote: I really, REALLY wanted to lynch you, but I talked myself out of pushing it because I wasn't sure if it was just OMGUS, or if I actually thought all of your silly little slips/logic leaps added up to enough to make you scum, or just playing badly. Which is ironically the same thing that halted me voting talis on d2, and I was wrong about him :o An OMGUS case against me would have gotten me lynched ezpz. I have no idea why matt didn't lynch me. Sure I'm a claimed cop and I "shouldn't" be lynched, but he knows as well as I do that what town "should" do and what it does almost never coincide. Hell, when we were scum VE got lynched day 1 with a "doctor" claim. | ||
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On July 21 2012 08:02 NoSmurfHere wrote: I approach learning mafia the same way I learn almost anything else. If you're not aware of your mistakes then you will be doomed to repeat them. In fact, sometimes even being aware of your mistakes, you repeat them subconsciously anyway (I had this conversation with marvellosity a little while ago; both of us were talking about how we learned something and then made the same mistake again later lol) Anyway it's kinda like learning how to play an RTS game online for the first time. The sooner you realize that you have a lot to improve, the sooner you can begin to improve. Even the best players make mistakes and it's in their interest to realize these mistakes so that they can become better. No one is perfect by any means. I don't agree you're being too critical. I do think you're just plain wrong that after the mattchew lynch with a scib kill mafia has any hope of winning. He needed to roleblock me and kill someone who was on matt aka s0Lstice to have any chance of winning. | ||
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On July 21 2012 08:06 gonzaw wrote: I stand by what I said that you seemed townie and those "bus" instead of "wagon" and your cop claim could have been brushed off as "bad play". Maybe it was me but if people had read your filter this game, and took into account other games where you were scum they would have figured out you were town, or at least not be that sure to kill you and give you another chance. I mean, even it townies make "bad plays" it's not "oh if the scum team is competent they'll get misslynched 100%". If other townies can get good reads then even if the scum team is "competent" they can't just make a townie change their read if he finds it accurate. That's why I was kind of shocked I was being pushed so much (my "bad plays"=/="scum"), and Risen and Keirathi too (Keirathi for his outburst against Risen and his self-vote). This brings to mind another possibility. I mean shit, matt could have pushed a lynch on me EASY. Then Keir is the next to go no questions asked in my mind. I just can't wrap my head around why matt buddied me. All it did was make me think he was scum. | ||
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On July 21 2012 08:09 NoSmurfHere wrote: and that's the reason I believe scum could've won at any point :p Anyone could've been lynched given the correct type of push. DB had a low chance of winning but he didn't try. So we'll never know. However if we ignore these possibilities (and I'm glad you're not ignoring them) then we're blind to future eventualities. A win might be a win but if you can't reproduce that win in the future it doesn't matter much, right? This makes me examine my "win" (read as: loss) in SSB64 with new eyes....... I've been patting myself on the back and cursing iGrok being shitty for the loss of that game when perhaps instead I should be examining the play that lead iGrok to be so dead set on his reads. | ||
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On July 21 2012 15:25 Keirathi wrote: I still maintain that a lot (almost all?) of the clusterfuck would have been avoided without the cop claim, and it still would have come down to gonzaw vs matt. I think a lot of the clusterfuck could have been avoided with a mason claim. I thought for sure it was scib until he didn't claim it and then I thought he might be scum so I used my n3 check on him (didn't end up mattering). THREE FOR THREE ON NIGHT CHECKS THO YEEE (this is bad...) | ||
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Edit: Can't answer question only got through first section as I'm on my phone but will def try to think this through tonight. | ||
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