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Hey everybody I'm finally able to get in the thread. I'll make this my quick introductory post and then get to scumhunting. I find that policy talk naturally transitions into a scumhunt over the course of D1. I think we all know the major points of policy that get talked about, and I tend to take each policy on a case by case basis anyway, so I won't waste much time on policy talk other than to say that talismania's proposal is pretty obviously a bad idea.
First things first, here is a list of games I've played in as well as links to my filters from those games. I think I'll be starting all my games with a list like this because it helps me improve. If I'm scum, I have to avoid playing closely to my scum meta. If I'm town, I put pressure on myself to make good reads. The list is spoilered so as not to take up too much space.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On July 12 2012 16:29 Vivax wrote:
There's no link to a voting thread in the OP methinks.Add pls?
##Vote active lurk strongandbig
link added
Votecount soon(tm)
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Votecount
DropBear(1)
gonzaw
strongandbig(0)
Vivax
Vivax(1)
Risen
Miltonkram(1)
Vivax
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On July 12 2012 16:10 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 15:38 Keirathi wrote:On July 12 2012 15:14 DropBear wrote:On July 12 2012 15:06 Keirathi wrote:
I don't think anyone is saying roleblocker should never, under any circumstances, use their power.
But it needs to be used with extreme caution because you probably have a higher chance (or at the very least, equal) of blocking a town blue than blocking a KP if you just pick randomly.
There are certainly situations where it can be a useful power, of course, but its much safer just to not use it until you have good, solid reads. People have in fact said that it shouldn't be used period. Gonzawtalismania Then I completely disagree with them. I'm still not positive they mean that there is a never a situation where RB can be useful, but if they think that then I encourage them to think harder. Obviously there are exceptions. If there are 2 "very obvious scum" or something (and only 2 scum remain) then he can try to RB those. But him trying to RB at random on N1 or even on N2 seems too risky to me, specially if that guys doesn't have very good reads (and isn't lucky). @Dropbear: I don't like your attitude. You just busted into the thread, basically discredited everything everybody said, and discredited every accusation anybody else has done, and that's it. All the while acting like you own the place or something (without actually taking charge). However you are not progressing at all, you are just complaining. Actually lets get the ball rolling (this thread is VERY silent so far, hopefully this changes that): ##Vote: Dropbear
You're just mad that I think your idea on the roleblocker is bad and your cases are bad.
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@ NSH
It's cause of a habit. I just tend to expect links in underlined words <_<.
Back to the topic:
##unvote strongandbig
Very informative post about marv there.
Wanted to vote Milton next but he posted.
He tries to make himself pretty transparent by posting his games. It's a good sign, but nothing decisive.
Speaking of meta, sciberbia doesn't look good based on that.I was with him in two games and I feel like he's being different in this one.
s0lstice already pointed out the missing fast posts we're used to see from scib at the start of the game.
That alone is forgivable given the posted reasons. But the overall gut feeling is still bad cause of the overall style.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On July 12 2012 16:51 strongandbig wrote:Hey bros For people who weren't in ssb or mtg mafias, just wanted to let you guys know I am currently in Europe, where I don't have a cell phone data plan. This means I can only post when I have wifi, which is a change from my normal method. I've also been busy at work so please don't expect much from me before 8pm CET.
Now for serious stuff: I'm going to be watching marv like a motherfuking hawk. I think hosts tend to try to "balance" games sometimes by tweaking their scum team selection; however, that can and has led to extra info from town through balance speculation. Marvellosity makes an extremely tempting player for hosts to do this kind of balancing, because his scum play is empirically very good, but he isn't a "veteran" so he's not likely to be the subject of balance speculation. I also suspect bugs of doing this kind of balancing. + Show Spoiler [reasons, from wheel of fortune.] +The last of his c++ games I played in was wheel of fortune. That was a stacked game and I was one of the worst players in it, although I did eventually manage to figure out the scum team (and got shot for having correct reads before I could push some of them). With the benefit of hindsight, that scum team looks almost perfectly balanced for the player base. Radfield was town, ace was scum. VE and Forumite were both good players, but only on the edge of being full-on vets. I firmly believe that town would have won that game if Radfield hadn't decided to use a DT check on Ace, who was godfather. That kind of closeness is the sign of a well-balanced game; and the odds that both town and scum would have their best player as their best power role are very small from pure chance. So what does this mean? I am NOT proposing to policy lynch marvellosity; if he's town he can be a great asset, and besides that's totally against the spirit of the game. What I AM saying is that I think when someone points out something scummy he does, we should take it pretty seriously. Pure chance wouldn't explain why he has rolled scum in something like half his games since our first game together (noob 6) while I have rolled it once - him being good and me not does explain that.
NOW: having told you why you should pay attention, I'm going to point out something scummy marv has done. That thing is: propose/say he would be okay with lynching Talismania. Talismania's plan IS anti town. When Ace is host and he tells an obs QT how good a plan is for scum, you better believe he knows what he's talking about. Systematic case proposing plans give scum an excuse to make shitty reads and blend in, because everyone is making shitty cases and dumb reads. That kind of plan dilutes good information and adds bad information. HOWEVER: Talismania proposes this plan as town. All the time. Like, every game. Usually "pushing scummy plans" is a decent scum tell; but this specific player pushing this specific plan is not. And Marvellosity should know this. Marv has obs'd at least two games where Talismania proposed this plan or a variation of it (ssb, bangbang). Tali has proposed this in other games. Marv is the kind of player who pays attention; he should also know that I've pushed tali hard for these plans in the past, as have others. Marv putting tali forward as his first lynch candidates comes down to an easy push on an easy target for reasons he should know are bad. Marv, I'm watching you.+ Show Spoiler [on Talismania, briefly] + I'm not saying tali is an easy target in general, like kenpachi or grush would be. He's not that kind of shitty player slash bad case magnet. It's just that for marv to propose him for lynch based on that plan is scummy.
##Vote: strongandbig
Damn this game is easy. First section is fluff.
Second section is a completely insidious attempt to create additional suspicion on to me under the guise of "balance". He spends time saying people should scrutinise me especially for mythical 'balance' reasons... that for some reason are working exactly like he says and no other way.
As to "I should know this" about talismania. I didn't really obs SSB so much (I think there is even a comment in the post-game where someone said Risen had no credibility but i did not know because I hadn't followed that closely). But in bang bang talis was SCUM and proposed similar. And I still find the plan scummy whether he proposes it as town or scum.
One last point on his shitty balance bullshit - " Pure chance wouldn't explain why he has rolled scum in something like half his games since our first game together (noob 6) while I have rolled it once - him being good and me not does explain that."
I have rolled scum TWICE. I have said in at least one other thread recently (maybe MTG?), directly in response to him I think, that I have only rolled scum TWICE. This is not half the time. This whole post is the worst thing I've ever seen.
##Vote: strongandbig
I'm doing it twice because I feel so strongly about it.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
Like seriously, how do you spend a post that long that actually only says
"talis plan is scummy, but he always does it"
that's literally the only content
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Le Sigh.
Marv, I know there's a strong positive correlation between "number of games played on TL" and "percentage of posts that consist purely of insults and trololol," but I was kind of hoping we weren't there yet.
Let's see what's wrong with this picture so far.
On July 12 2012 19:25 marvellosity wrote:
Like seriously, how do you spend a post that long that actually only says
"talis plan is scummy, but he always does it"
that's literally the only content
You forgot "Marv should know this, and him throwing out Talismania right away as a lynch target is suspicious." Because you should know this. I know you were obsing Bastard 2 where Talismania did this as town. And you were obsing SSB where he did this as town. And you played in Space Station where he did the same thing as town. That's three games. Plus he even referred to the fact that he does this as town and I find him scummy for it in the same post where he did it.
So yeah, you throwing out Talismania as a lynch target for no good reason is suspicious and I stand by that.
As for the number of times you've rolled scum - you're forgetting MTG mafia. That counts, since before the game no one knew you were going to just leave Toad to play it. So I can only go back so far in time, due to the limitations of the TL search function, but it seems to me that in your last five games you were town in moviestar, scum in LV, town in bangbang, scum in mtg, and unknown in normal mini 2 since that's still ongoing. LVI doesn't count for these purposes since you replaced in, and LV is as far back as the search function goes. So that looks pretty much like 50% to me. Obviously you were probably town a lot more than scum back before your first scum game, because hosts wouldn't be like "he's a good scum player" until whatever that first game was that you won as scum.
Anyway, that's beside the point - it doesn't really matter. As I said in my original post, it's just another reason to keep you under close scrutiny. The fact that you've won either 2/2 or 3/3 games where you were scum, depending on whether we count mtg, is enough - it's proven you're hard to identify as scum. Neither of those are reasons to lynch you or think you're scum by themselves. They are only reasons to keep you under the microscope.
And sorry if my post was too long for you or if you got bored or whatever. I was sitting on the bus for like forty minutes with no internet and nothing to do but write it :p.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
I replaced into LV too, but whatever.
You seem to think I follow games closer than I do. My main memory was of Bang bang where I got rather annoyed about it there as well. I'll take your word on Space Station because it was too many games ago for me to remember.
Regardless, I *do* believe the plan is anti-town. And I did not accompany it with a vote. gonzaw's preceding question was "who would you lynch between..." so it was merely a follow-on answer - "I'd rather lynch..."
I still think the idea of keeping me under close scrutiny for "balance" reasons is an insidious way to think. Everyone should be under full scrutiny all of the time. You're singling me out for subjective, unprovable reasons (for instance, I would postulate that WoF was more stacked for Mafia; no weak links with two extremely strong scum players in VE/Ace and Forumite who is apparently very competent at it).
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Honestly, it is subjective. I'm trying to find a way to quantify the fact that out of this entire player list, you're the one I find the thought of as scum by far the most threatening, because of how badly you had me fooled in LV. If VE or Ace was playing I would be focusing on them. I actually did focus on Ace like this in WoF, and I correctly called him as scum (but wasn't able to persuade people to go along with me).
And I didn't know you replaced into LV, that does change my math.
But as I've said every single time we've talked about it, that stuff is beside the point. The point is, I'm still watching you.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
Haha. At least we get down to the nub of it. I wish you'd included the short version "I'm scared of you as scum" earlier, that would have cut some of this out...
Next time don't try to dress it up and justify it. You know I like to be watched, darling.
For now,
##unvote
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Strong I feel like the entirety of your posts could easily be made by either town or scum, if this is you trying to establish your alignment you have done a poor job with me. Your post is longwinded and looks to explain your thought process, but we both know that 95% of your posts content has nothing to do with this game at all. Not only that but your early attempt at a read on marv does not even account for his other posts in the thread. And your reasoning for voting him from this game is too, extremely weak.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
Matt, while you're here - what do you make of gonzaw? He seems to be making stuff out of nothing, but it could just be provoking conversation.
I guess normally at the start of day 1 he has setup shit to ramble on about, which he does not here.
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On July 12 2012 22:41 marvellosity wrote:
Matt, while you're here - what do you make of gonzaw? He seems to be making stuff out of nothing, but it could just be provoking conversation.
I guess normally at the start of day 1 he has setup shit to ramble on about, which he does not here.
he is trying really really hard, and once again he is explaining his entire thought process. I dont think i have ever seen him as scum, but this is the exactly how he plays as town
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
If you're interested, check out Liar where he was scum. Incredibly verbose there too 
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On July 12 2012 22:45 marvellosity wrote:If you're interested, check out Liar where he was scum. Incredibly verbose there too
can't i just be blinded and not have to read 1000 pages of filter to see the difference between him as scum and him as town
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
That's gonzaw for you. Speculatively I'd say he was one of those players you're probably only going to be able to catch later on when you can piece together his actions/motivations.
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lets just call him confirmed town over and over again and maybe scum will do our read for us.. and if not we lynch him day 3
oh shit they can read this too cant they
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So Marv, you are null on gonzaw right now?
what do you make of these:
On July 12 2012 07:32 gonzaw wrote:
Yo whats up dudes. I forgot how many scum there were, where they 4?
Anyways, first things first:
Millers Claim!
Masons Claim!
Nobody discuss this, nobody argue this, nobody contradict this. It's been discussed to death in every single game before this one so if you want to see reasons why those 2 should happen reread those games/guides/post-game analysis, don't clutter this thread up saying "oh no Millers shouldn't claim because the cop will get a red check!" or some bullshit.
Was that clear?
On July 12 2012 08:08 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 08:05 talismania wrote:
@gonzaw on the RB: yeah for sure I don't think there's any point to a RB using their power. Jailkeeper can do as they please as long as the threat is out there it's fine. There's only one case I can think of off the top of my head where it's good for jailkeeper to protect (scum RB fake claims town RB, jailkeeper doesn't protect him, someone else claims RB'd, the scum RB claims he withheld his power, WIFOM) but that seems rather unlikely to occur. If we try to create scenarios WIFOM-proof we'll waste lots of resources and time, and most of the time it's not even that useful (protecting a claimed Town RBer isn't a "game-breaking plan for town to win", yet it takes away the JK's ability to save someone at night). So yeah let's keep it simple....at least until we find a better plan
Also, cool this game has PMs/Chat/stuff.
If someone has Skype contact me, I'm gonzaw308
Or use the mafia chat thingy
He scores townie points with me here. How about you?
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EPT
