EPTBureaucracy Mafia! - Page 4
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
owned. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On July 24 2012 11:08 marvellosity wrote: BH flipped mafia. So mafia including fake PMs in their messages (whether they came from Chez or from another party, saying "Someone will be claiming messenger in thread. Confirm he can message by posting this: ") could explain the PM. so with regards to this, the theory is that someone else picked up on what Chez wrote and made it into a PM for BH?? Really the only troubling PM is the one that VE got, as far as I can tell? WBG got that weird one that hasn't been identified but that chez claimed not to send, BH's flip makes his message untrustworthy, leaving us with the message Chez claimed to send D1 and the message VE received. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On July 24 2012 11:21 HiroPro wrote: Right now I'm still at "odd." That doesn't answer your question, but I can give thoughts.austin, you think slOosh's claim is real? (1) In his original post, Sloosh claims On July 22 2012 14:05 slOosh wrote: I am a Crazed Employee - basically a delayed 1 shot vig, and I targetted Foolishness last night. Supersoft comes in, claims the shot as well. It's... 12 hours before Sloosh returns to post On July 23 2012 01:51 slOosh wrote: The oddness of the 1.5 cycles as a condition for shooting has been discussed. But the time delay on the claim hasn't. It's just weird. Why claim delayed vig as scum, then come back after 12 hours and claim a really odd delay restriction? You can even speculate on multiple levels--does the delay show townie filling in missing information, or does it show scum receiving a message about how to fakeclaim the shot? If a boss wasn't sending messages right at the start of the cycle, but waiting for the flip to write a message, then the delay could have a scummy explanation, boss writes the message, gets it to sloosh, who then claims that specific role.Quick post before I can properly play at night: I can only shoot when no mafia have died for 1.5 cycles, so basically I can only start shooting night 2. Didn't bother clarifying beyond "delayed" because it's 1 shot and it went off, apologies if I worded it ambiguously. I explained my shot because it was the natural thing to do? (2) On July 22 2012 14:05 slOosh wrote: At this point, foolishness had flipped, so mafia KNEW that there was a traitorous employee. However, BH had also been killed, so it's not like mafia was trying to draw out the traitor in order for for BH to pop him (BH's role PM doesn't indicate whether his kill is night-only, as far as I read it). So either this is town wanting that guy to claim and let us know what messages he received, or this is scum finding out one of his buddies is a traitor, and can't help but add thoughts on that because it's a topic of serious concern.Lastly, I think that the traitorous employee should claim. As I understand it it's like a self-aware miller who wins with town but numbers count with scum. Since mafia have to kill all town they are torn having a "confirmed town" alive and wasting their 1 KP on a useless kill (doesn't count to their wincon), and have lost their means of instantly killing him, plus the possible additional benefits of seeing scum strategies and redacted knowledge through outed PMs can be huge. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On July 25 2012 02:14 slOosh wrote: Anyone have thoughts on this? Only austin sort of addressed this: Additional musings on the traitor: (1) Foolishness's PM said he didn't actually have any powers. Scum only has 3 minions with powers left. (2) Scum could know who the traitorous minion is, as the bosses might have been able to figure out who doesn't actually have the power they supposedly have. (3) IF you subscribe to the magical mirror theory, which I still don't like, then we may have a town traitor as well. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
minus BH minus Palmar minus the traitor On July 22 2012 09:12 Protactinium wrote: Be warned: one of the above minions is a traitorous employee who wants to sell you out to your fiercest competitor and doesn't actually have a power. 4 minions left, one being the traitor w/o a power. So only 3 with powers. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I agree that it's an odd time to change behavior and stop trolling. I agree that he's not really pushing his lynches hard (Except for cheerleading the D1 BH lynch attempt). But when Chez initially proposed mirrored roles, a lot of it was based upon RoL/Kurumi being town/mafia nukes, or town dud/mafia real nuke. + Show Spoiler + On July 20 2012 14:16 Chezinu wrote: hmmm 3 executives that can message...3 workers in the department of communication for town.. 1 mafia nuker... 1 dud nuker town... so.. 1 town Judge (pardoner) ... one mafia..... oh noes!!@! kurumi might not die! but then there is the ninja mind controlling vote stealing thief... On July 20 2012 14:18 Chezinu wrote: what if kurumi was one of us? what if kurumi was one of us? then the pattern would be broken.. On July 20 2012 14:47 Chezinu wrote: Isn't it funny how the CEO has the names of the roles of the mafia and like there is possibly a townie who could have a list of them be roles? if the mirror is true.. if and only if kurumi is mafiaz. then as nuke to dud rocket... list of roles is to... On July 21 2012 05:44 Chezinu wrote: If kurumi is innocent.. then the mirror roles could be false.. if kurumi is pardoned.. or "vetoed" then.. yeah... If mafia.. then mafia is going to die.. if kurumi is innocent: town has 3 communicators, a nuke, a dud rocket, and a judge. Given that, I don't know how much sandroba flipping town and Chez backing off the mirror theory gets you. The mirrored roles bit was already untrue, based on Chez's reasoning for proposing it, when Kurumi flipped town, so there was no reason for him to keep pushing it. I also didn't see him pushing it between Kurumi's flip and Sandro's flip. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
- His early stuff does look like he's not around to play. - While he's defended BH and Palmar, they were on opposite sides of the mafia heirarchy, and he was finding them both town relatively early, so it's not like he's been caught defending 2 or 3 minions that all fell on one side of the tree. - He went after Foolishness with some decent content. - His vote yesterday still strikes me as off. Complaining that people won't answer your one question when there's already a majority and you've not been a driving force this game (could see high-activity Gonzaw feeling like people should answer his questions) doesn't sit well with me. Yesterday's post right before his vote, where he complains that nobody will answer his question and he doesn't feel good about the lynch, is the scummiest part of his filter for me. Worse than the late vote and sheeping. But it's not as bad as MZ. MZ I'm not even looking at the Palmar crap on MZ. MZ looks bad all by himself. D1 - On July 17 2012 03:36 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: When I first read this, I liked it. We had so many cases and suspicions flying around early that our D1 was massive and it's tough to pick out the good from the bad. 2/3 the thread probably got accused of being scum on D1.Actually I'm playing smart and waiting until I have a solid case before I go after someone. In contrast, you have your idiotic crusade against katina and that's it. Discussion should be currently centered around Palmar for his inability/refusal to play. BH should be a secondary consideration for his random wild play. And of course I still haven't forgot chez and the smurf, I'm interested to see if they start playing as well. This may come as a shock but it's not always a good idea to shit up the thread with random cases. My lack of a formal "case" is way better than your little spat with Katina. MZ gives what I think is a variation on that train of thought in his response to VE - + Show Spoiler + On July 25 2012 09:33 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: D1 the lynch should have been BH. If you go back and read the end of the day I was working very hard to try and ensure that we even had a lynch. D2 Kurumi was obviously the best option because of the Sandroba PM, I'm still astounded he flipped town. D3 Palmar was easily the best option because of the foolishness situation. Note a theme here, I fully agreed with the person who was getting lynched. The guys who was under the gun was acting scummy and I wanted them to die. It would have hurt the town and been very nonconstructive if I had pushed for rastaban say on the day we killed Palmar. It's just dumb to accuse me of not going hard after rastaban when I agree with the guy up to die. I've brought up rastaban because at some point we're going to run out of obvious lynches (since we have zealos that day hasn't arrived). My rastaban case has actually started to pick up some steam which I'm glad to see, as soon as there isn't a better obvious lynch I'll take my turn and get him killed. I can get someone killed when I want to VE, you of all people should know this. However the time isn't right for a rastaban lynch. It would have been completely idiotic if I had tried to get him lynched in place of any of the others who have died so far, and further more I have no incentive to do so when I agree with the guy getting lynched. All the other people to die have been in my opinion, the scummiest person in the thread. The day we try and lynch someone who I don't think isn't the scummiest will be the day I jump up and start screaming bloody murder. Until then I'll wait my turn to get rastaban killed. Yet, here's MZ on D2 during the Kurumi lynch On July 20 2012 03:55 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Here, MZ encourages EVERYONE to throw out "their various cases." It's not 100% contradictory to his past stances, but it doesn't mesh with them. If MZ thinks that adding cases on people other than the main lynch target(s) is a bad idea for him, then why is it a good idea for everyone to throw out every case? Maybe because it worked so well D1. Not only did we no-lynch, but there are also so many cases and suspicions D1 that it's difficult to wade through. If D2 looks the same, with everyone calling out everyone, then that's another day that will be very difficult to sort back through later on. Everyone should be taking this time to post their various cases that they have. Since we already have our lynch for today, let's not waste it by voting and chilling. Let's still try and garner some use out of the day. That's the main reason I'm finding him scummy - doesn't want to spam/derail thread with cases, asks everyone to do that D2. Little other points, some of which others have pointed out (I think?): - Minor: MZ active N1 pushing consolidation onto Gonzaw, then pushing consolidation onto BH. Foolishness may have been CEO, but he wasn't bullshitting when saying that a couple mass switches late is a recipe for a no-lynch. MZ helped push switches, mafia wants no-lynch. This point only minor because BH flipped mafia and we aren't sure of Gonzaw's alignment. - MZ tells us he pushes his scumreads hard. He's been bringing up Rastaban over and over, but never really pushing him. Fine. But other reads have just entirely fallen off the table. D1 he found Chez scummy for trolling, mentioned Chez had trolled in past scum games, FoSed him, didn't seem fond. See: On July 16 2012 15:49 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Either he continues to play scummy and we kill him, or he shapes up and plays nice. Obviously he could still be scum even if he shapes up but it'll be much harder for him to cause chaos if he's playing nice and we catch him later on. Chez has continued trolling. MZ's response? Nothing. No mention of Chez. No wanting to lynch Chez. In fact, On July 25 2012 15:30 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Again: If Chezinu continues trolling, we kill him. Chezinu continues trolling. No desire to kill, no scumread, doesn't want VE's chez-is-mafia conspiracy.Everyone hold your shit for a second. VE don't go all conspiracy theorist yet, that's austin's job iirc. I propose we lynch zealos today. It's long overdue and it'll whittle down scum numbers even more. Also, for the record, VE, I'm worried about Chezinu as well. I'm hoping that he's serious about making sense, but even if he explains and stops trolling, I don't think I'm going to fully trust him. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On July 26 2012 00:56 rastaban wrote: Chezinu is more town than anyone else this game. How can people want to kill him when his reads have been so accurate this game? I didn't remember him pushing many reads, so I went back and looked. You are right, he's got a lot of correct reads. As far as I can tell: D1 he wants to kill Gonzaw (unknown) and BH D2 his posts on Kurumi seem to indicate he's leaning town, but it's not clear. He votes for Sandroba D2, but puts him down as townie in lists at night (perhaps scum because of mirror theory, town at night because mirror theory no good with Kurumi town). N2 he's got a nice list: + Show Spoiler + On July 21 2012 13:11 Chezinu wrote: come on... you suppose to listen to me cause I'm the boss. And you wonder why you have no authority! look.. this is how you do it. You copy the list and make the names full of color. The best method is to color each name a full color. unless you are very confused. In this case I asked you to color the green and blue ones. Let's say I asked you to color the red ones. You do something like this: 1. layabout 2. Sloosh 5. HiroPro 6. Foolishness 8. Bill Murray 9. Gonzaw 10. Meapak_Ziphh 11. Supersoft 12. austinmcc 15. syllogism 16. GGQ 17. Blazinghand 20. rastaban 21. Mattchew 23. risk.nuke 26. Palmas 27. Zealos ok, you got it. Now gogogo! D3 - Votes sloosh, who he seems to find scummy throughout day, unknown. Votes palmar later, correct. You're right, his reads have been good. Very good, and better than I was thinking. But I'm worried about some of the things he has said, and I want to know whether they are the result of a particular power(s) or not. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
BH had KP that would kill him if he didn't hit mafia, dead. For the traitor to believe he'd get gibbed, you'd have to think there's a THIRD mafia KP to target mafia with. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On July 17 2012 23:31 Kurumi wrote: I think Meapak is scum. WBG, before dying, had his one post of reads and a small one agreeing with Palmar - + Show Spoiler + On July 19 2012 06:49 wherebugsgo wrote: That seems like a message Foolishness would send me. He's probably scum. The other possibility is Chezinu or someone who wants me to think Foolishness sent me that message. As for scum given how blatant their behavior seems I think the simplest route is to kill the confirmed ones first and then the scumreads that multiple people agree upon. Right now ignoring Zealos and Kurumi that looks like: Foolishness GGQ Meapak Layabout And potentially: Katina These are among my strongest reads as I've gone back and reexamined things. I was likely wrong about both BH and Austin (or they've been given ample warning into changing their play -_-). I personally would also consider killing BM and Qbert because they're useless, but all of the named above are likelier to flip scum IMO (katina included; I lean scum but not confident) On July 19 2012 09:16 wherebugsgo wrote: I agree with syllo and sandro about Palmar. His play this game reminds me of Liar Game. On July 18 2012 10:49 wherebugsgo wrote: I'm not confident gonzaw is scum, but I don't have time to argue this. I have a HW deadline in 5 hours and I'm about to head out to finish it. Since it's extended majority, voting for BH is probably not a great idea, even though I want to keep him on the table -_- Takes 14 to lynch, yeah? ##unvote ##vote gonzaw On July 18 2012 12:02 wherebugsgo wrote: ##unvote ##vote Blazinghand I don't like the gonzaw lynch. Last minute switch to BH anyone? Both had MZ scummy. Kurumi scum on Gonzaw, WBG town on Gonzaw but willing to vote him at one point due to lack of time, although unvoted for BH later. Figured it's worth raising their reads again, even though we all killed Kurumi, not just mafia, and Bugs looked so friggin' towny that I'd imagine a few mafia sent his name to Foolishness N1 to be sure they didn't accidentally kill off a scumbuddy. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
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At least some of your suspicion of Katina rests on her play in Liar Game. Do you feel that it transfers 1:1, given that Liar Game had PMs and odd lynch mechanics? I just don't know how far comparisons between the two games get you. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On July 26 2012 06:24 gonzaw wrote: Hmm, austin, what exactly do you think of Katina then? She's not posting a ton, but I'm tending to like what she posts?
The only thing bugging me about her is Kurumi asking for her reads, and Katina responding that she has no town reads. Hopefully that isn't still the case. Post heavily edited to get question/answer On July 21 2012 08:47 Katina wrote: You want my reads? Okay: Mafia: Foolishness, Mattchew, Palmar, Blazinghand, Syllogirm, BM (as clearly stated) Those reads have no changed. Town: I have no idea... Once I get a good town read that I'm confident in I will let you know. I'm also more likely to compare her to LVI, since I played there and only read Liar Game. Some stupid comparisons: In LVI, her first page of filter has 10 !s. Here it has 5, and only in two playful posts. In LVI, she deflected Bugs and I, but no OMGUS. Here, after more pressure from Mattchew, she's finding him scummy (Not conclusive of anything) | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Steal me if you'd like, but you won't get an action off me. If it gives anyone peace of mind then go ahead. Steal list so far has been...mattchew, MZ, sloosh? And none had abilities that you got access to? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On July 10 2012 09:27 wherebugsgo wrote: Chezinu you are mighty slow at making good on statements like : On July 24 2012 23:40 Chezinu wrote: hey everyone, From this point on wards, I think it is in the best interest for town that I stop talking in a troll-like manner. Tomorrow (game time), I will reveal my role and provide my analysis of the players in this game. Now that we have a strong group of confirmed town, I find there is a less need to be conspicuous. My confessions of all my actions will be included. On July 26 2012 04:44 Chezinu wrote: Oh yeah, almost forgot about that post. Will do it later when I'm not busy. I only have time right now to right troll comments and questions as I pop in and out of thread. | ||
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austinmcc
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Sloosh, were you informed as to what power mafia would think you had, between commuter/"snoopy"? | ||
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austinmcc
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(1) some form of protection (2) scum didn't send in a kill (missed it OR thought all targets sent were mafia) (3) kill sent in on a commuter who was gone that night (4) roleblock on the chairman of the board, IF that would stop the NK in this setup | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
One regard that I think is at the top of preserving is keeping the town as chaotic as possible. Since mafia don't know each other, there's no way to correlate things between votes or between members (at least very little obviously). At any opportunity necessary we (the mafia) need to call out anyone as soon as they make a mistake, make a bogus case or give bogus reasoning. Anything that can be nitpicked at should be nitpicked at The chaos in the town needs to ensue for as long as possible. Right now there is no organization; just everyone is spewing out random cases against people. This cannot change Keep the posting up. Keep the town unfocused. Don't let the big names run around freely. One of the quotes I found scummy about MZ, on D2 when Kurumi was going to be lynched: On July 20 2012 03:55 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Everyone should be taking this time to post their various cases that they have. Since we already have our lynch for today, let's not waste it by voting and chilling. Let's still try and garner some use out of the day. | ||
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austinmcc
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On July 27 2012 02:34 VisceraEyes wrote: Kurumi had a town nuke.For the some reason someone types "BOOOM Headshot" like I do when I nail scum. I don't know, that's pretty null itself...but the fact that "something big" was coming and Foolishness died does seem to indicate that scum were shooting Foolishness. :/ I'ma digest this some more. So are you of the opinion that town doesn't have a vig then? | ||
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