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On July 21 2012 03:46 sandroba wrote:
And by the way, 2 people messaged kurumi. Me on day1 and someone who is not chezinu on night 1 (chezinu messaged wbg).
No. Chezinu said that he did NOT message WBG
On July 20 2012 14:41 Chezinu wrote:
For instance, I knows I didn't write no message to WBG.. and sand no wrote a message to WBG... so who R did?
Chezinu, as far as I can tell, has claimed to message:
D1 - ?
N1 - BH
D2 - VE
I think? Slightly unsure of the timing on the BH message.
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On July 20 2012 16:44 Chezinu wrote:
FYI, the message I sent on day 1 was never posted... Muahhahaha I control the minionz muahhahaha.. I wonder if the person I messaged was a chairman... I wonder if he still is following my orders... orders that will reveal to me all of the mafia!!! muahahhahaaha
For reference, ? there means "hasn't claimed."
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On July 21 2012 05:49 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 05:45 Kurumi wrote:
You are getting this all wrong syllogism. If I flip mafia (which I won't) then sandroba's actions are nullified. Then you need to back your actual reads with analysis. When I flip Town, then it becomes transparent that sandroba's Town(there is a chance he's a minion with a wonky power, but... that'd hurt my head.)
Sandie, I've never asked: Why did you pick me to send this message? Sandroba would never sacrifice two minions (remember, Zealos also confirmed being messaged by him) to earn himself some town cred when the most likely result of that town cred would be getting shot by mafia ceo n1. Even if we knew nothing else, that is enough to consider him pretty much confirmed town. You're entirely wrong...
If Sandroba had the option to "sacrifice two minions" then you're saying he's the President of Marketing or Chairman of the Board. Those are the two roles with minions to be sacrificed.
If Sandroba were either of those roles, then the CEO would know him, because CEO knows the identity of those two roles.
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On July 21 2012 05:58 syllogism wrote:
You are right about the CEO part, but you can ignore that part and it still makes no sense at all.
You are relying on the fact that Sandroba would not sacrifice minions for town cred, because it would lead to him getting shot by the mafia CEO.
On July 21 2012 05:49 syllogism wrote:
Sandroba would never sacrifice two minions (remember, Zealos also confirmed being messaged by him) to earn himself some town cred when the most likely result of that town cred would be getting shot by mafia ceo n1. Even if we knew nothing else, that is enough to consider him pretty much confirmed town
That is untrue. The CEO knows the identity of both players in the position to sacrifice minions. He would not shoot them. There is ZERO risk of getting shot by the CEO for the two sub-bosses, he knows who they are.
If you "ignore" the CEO part and claim that scum Sandroba makes no sense, then what you're left with is ... "scum would never kill other scum for town cred." Which is false. Sandroba is not confirmed. We do not know his alignment. We do not know his power. We do not even know Kurumi and Zealos's alignments.
You are coming to wrong conclusions by assuming some things that we don't know yet AND misunderstanding the setup.
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On July 21 2012 06:11 rastaban wrote:
Austin stop please, this is an argument you can not win. Just send his name in tonight and let the CEO take care of. Trying to get him lynched or power stolen is not the way to go,.
Kurumi, I believe you. Will review your posts when you flip blue. Don't take it too hard, this happened to gonzaw a few games ago in bang bang. Sometimes a slip up, even when town is too much and it there is nothing that can be done about it.
Do you even understand what the argument is? Read the posts. Syllo states that a sub-boss would not bus two minions for town cred, because it would make him a target for the N1 shot. The CEO determines who gets shot, and knows the identity of both sub-bosses. Syllo is entirely wrong about a bussing sub-boss being a target for the N1 shot. Read my posts, read VE's post above.
I've not said anything about BM and power stealing, because that's all nonsense right now. That's a discussion between matt and others that is going on at the same time.
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On July 21 2012 06:16 rastaban wrote:
@austinmcc, We kill them, then who does he message? well now he has to buss his last team mate since thats the only guy to message. now what? oh my power quit? no he has to message someone else. so all that bussing for nothing. I'm not saying it's the best plan ever. But let's see, if you want to play that game:
(1) Sandro: "Heavens to betsy, it appears my power has been stolen/blocked today"
(2) Sandro: "I lied, my power is actually x-shot"
(3) Sandro has a minion who can message town. Sandro is down 2/3 minions, so he is messaging the remaining minion every half cycle. Each half cycle, Sandro sends the minion a prepackaged message and a target to send it to. The minion sends the message, townie confirms that he received a message, Sandroba claims he sent it, and also can give the content of the message to confirm himself as the sender. Ta da. Messages every half cycle, confirming Sandroba. (Done off top of head, but I think this works?)
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Guh, I'm now involved in another pointless discussion. Here's the root of it all:
We don't know nearly as much as we keep assuming we do.
We jump to conclusions about Kurumi's alignment, Sandroba's power, what powers exist and don't, blah blah blah. Then we spend time and pages arguing about the conclusions that we've jumped to.
Frankly, Foolishness looks townie to me for pointing out how much energy we've spent discussing D3 lynch targets and other crap. He made some good points today that he didn't spend 8 hours debating back and forth, just dropped them and left.
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On July 21 2012 06:36 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 06:31 austinmcc wrote:
Guh, I'm now involved in another pointless discussion. Here's the root of it all:
We don't know nearly as much as we keep assuming we do.
We jump to conclusions about Kurumi's alignment, Sandroba's power, what powers exist and don't, blah blah blah. Then we spend time and pages arguing about the conclusions that we've jumped to.
Frankly, Foolishness looks townie to me for pointing out how much energy we've spent discussing D3 lynch targets and other crap. He made some good points today that he didn't spend 8 hours debating back and forth, just dropped them and left. I said the same before Foolishness! Why are you voting me? Null tell at best. Nobody's claimed that they sent foolishness a message with orders which Foolishness followed.
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On July 21 2012 06:45 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 06:41 austinmcc wrote:On July 21 2012 06:36 Kurumi wrote:On July 21 2012 06:31 austinmcc wrote:
Guh, I'm now involved in another pointless discussion. Here's the root of it all:
We don't know nearly as much as we keep assuming we do.
We jump to conclusions about Kurumi's alignment, Sandroba's power, what powers exist and don't, blah blah blah. Then we spend time and pages arguing about the conclusions that we've jumped to.
Frankly, Foolishness looks townie to me for pointing out how much energy we've spent discussing D3 lynch targets and other crap. He made some good points today that he didn't spend 8 hours debating back and forth, just dropped them and left. I said the same before Foolishness! Why are you voting me? Null tell at best. Nobody's claimed that they sent foolishness a message with orders which Foolishness followed. Tell me, if someone were to forge a pm and we'd get into crossfire of who's lying and who's not, who'd you lynch first? The Messenger or The Messenged? There's no issue of forgery with the PM you received. I had to go back and check your filter, you've never said Sandro didn't send you that message.
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On July 21 2012 07:20 VisceraEyes wrote:
I want to eliminate Executives. I think Sandroba is the Director of Marketing or the Chairman of the Board.
And Austinmcc isn't bad. He's paranoid, and now I am too.
+ Show Spoiler +hatshatshatshatshatshatshatshatshatshatshats!hats!hats!
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On July 21 2012 07:30 supersoft wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 07:28 austinmcc wrote:On July 21 2012 07:20 VisceraEyes wrote:
I want to eliminate Executives. I think Sandroba is the Director of Marketing or the Chairman of the Board.
And Austinmcc isn't bad. He's paranoid, and now I am too. + Show Spoiler +hatshatshatshatshatshatshatshatshatshatshats!hats!hats! why do you guys even want to eleminate executives. I thought they have no powers?! You're quoting me, so I assume I'm part of "you guys"
(1) I didn't move my vote. I want to lynch kurumi (conditional sorry, if you're town, kurumi!)
(2) We are the 99%
(3) I'm unsure yet if I like the idea of focusing executives or focusing minions. There's definitely a tradeoff between powers and communication. I've not been part of this Operation: CEObliterate.
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On July 20 2012 14:22 Chezinu wrote:
can anyone here guess my abilities?
Say you got fired from your current job. Would your updated resume say you had expertise working in the mail room, or would you be more experienced with HR and hiring?
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On July 21 2012 20:43 marvellosity wrote:
I'm not sure I understand this game at all
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Sloosh, the person who suggested mirrored roles was Chezinu - + Show Spoiler +On July 20 2012 14:16 Chezinu wrote:
hmmm 3 executives that can message...3 workers in the department of communication for town..
1 mafia nuker... 1 dud nuker town...
so.. 1 town Judge (pardoner) ... one mafia..... oh noes!!@! kurumi might not die!
but then there is the ninja mind controlling vote stealing thief... On July 20 2012 14:47 Chezinu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 14:44 Blazinghand wrote:
Wait so did Chez message me? or was that some other guy? Sandro says it wasn't him. Isn't it funny how the CEO has the names of the roles of the mafia and like there is possibly a townie who could have a list of them be roles? if the mirror is true.. if and only if kurumi is mafiaz. then as nuke to dud rocket... list of roles is to...
In light of you bringing up the mirroring posts, prob saying Chez knew his role, and VE voting Chez, gonna throw out a little Chez role speculation.
I was hoping he'd play along and answer:On July 22 2012 08:43 austinmcc wrote:Say you got fired from your current job. Would your updated resume say you had expertise working in the mail room, or would you be more experienced with HR and hiring? He's claimed to be the director of communication and to have messaging powers (mail room) but it also seemed like other bits pointed towards a role cop (HR, I wanted to play along and be half-cryptic)
In favor of a role-knowing role
Isn't it funny how the CEO has the names of the roles of the mafia and like there is possibly a townie who could have a list of them be roles? if the mirror is true.. if and only if kurumi is mafiaz. then as nuke to dud rocket... list of roles is to... made it sound like he was letting on that there was a rolecop, or a townie with a list of town role names to mirror the scum having a list of role names or powers. Prob's statement kind of confirms that.
However, Chezinu seemed to think that Blazinghand's ##block was real, and that BH could protect him - + Show Spoiler +On July 20 2012 15:01 Chezinu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 14:44 Blazinghand wrote:
Wait so did Chez message me? or was that some other guy? Sandro says it wasn't him. wait a minute! I just realized... are you saying it is possible for me to message you even though you blocked me? or is your role solely nuke block? There are a couple other quotes elsewhere but I'm lazy
Also pushing towards Chezinu having a town role list are his references to a role that could see mafia communications - + Show Spoiler +On July 20 2012 08:00 Chezinu wrote:
They get their messages extremely late. The Chairmens wait for the CEO to message one of them. Then the chosen chairman copy pastes the CEO's message and includes an additional message for himself. They get long messages that take forever to get to them. If someone recieves a short message they will likely post it in the thread as WBG and Blazing has done. The faster the post it the more likely they are either town or CEO. The CEO shouldn't get any messages from his minions unless one of the minions has the ability to message people and figures out who the CEO is and copy pastes a portion of the CEO's pm to prove he is a minion. Then the CEO will send a message to for everyone to will hint and clues indicating such a person is part of the mafia team. Maybe he might mention that such and such person need to be protected or for everyone not to vote for such and such person. By now, if the mafia CEO is somewhat disciplined and smart and not impulsive, he would have a trademark signature in his message.
The goal:
Let's drive them crazy. Someone with a role that can wiretap into The System needs to get hold of a message from the CEO or the chairmans. Then you will have the trademark. Exposing this trademark to the public will force the CEO to create a new signature.. but by the time this happens he can just reiterate a previous pm message to prove who he is.. The Director of Communication seeks an employee who is capable of retrieving these messages.
Come on Company, Its Time to Take the Company Back! On July 20 2012 15:06 Chezinu wrote:
If I could read other people messages.. why would I have asked for an employee would could read other people's messages or for someone to bus me earlier in the thread? (since I'm the crazy guy, you have to look up my quotes). I'm totally bossing you arounds!
In favor of messaging powers
He's claimed them. Claimed messages to ?, BH, and VE, although I don't think we have actually 100% confirmed that he sent any messages. I believe BH and VE just posted messages which Chez claimed, but there was never a situation where Chez gave information that confirmed himself as sender?
Of course, there's a chance he's got access to both powers. Either as a mafia underboss, with a messaging minion and a rolecop/town role list minion, or perhaps as a mason-type role, with those roles inside his circle? If "director of communication" is a real role name, a mason-type role would fit with that. A mason circle Chez could still be mafia or town.
VE, are you voting Chez based off Foolishness/BH flips, or is this because of the chat you guys had?
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On July 23 2012 01:09 Bill Murray wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 01:22 Q-bert-Z wrote:
Am I missing something or did Mr Murray say that he also steals the power of the person he votes for? If so, that makes him more or less a role - checker... Why not have him steal sandroba's vote, and see if he gets a messaging power?
Or does that not count as a thread action? (Which, now that I think about it, seems likely)
BM, what kind of information do you receive when you steal someone's power? How do you know what power they have? I haven't gotten to find that out yet.
I'd imagine something like this[logout] : Bill Murray [1 NEW PM] "OH JOY" "You now have the ability #Daykill/Execute/BangBang" "HOLY MOTHER OF AFSDAJHAKL" I don't think he's actually claiming he got a dayvig.
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Voting palmar, but a little perplexed by his claim. Closed setup on town side, so his role doesn't indicate towniness. Plus it's an odd role to choose. If it worked like copycat in PYP games, RoL died at the end of D1, so Palmar would have become Macedonia. He's not claiming that, so he apparently got to choose what role he picks up, and he chose pardoner, rather than waiting around to see other flips.
Was looking through his filter, because it seems like so much of his scumminess is coming from Foolishness. Like, before Foolishness (and BH) died, the lynch today was discussed as a BH/foolishness/zealos option mainly. So before the Foolishness flip, Palmar was scummy to lots, but as a 4th or 5th choice. Heavily, heavily tempered by the fact that 2/3 that short list is dead and flipped scum, but I just wanted to look over Palmar more to convince myself.
Found this:
On July 17 2012 23:32 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 23:24 marvellosity wrote:
Ok. Why are you voting Kurumi when he's getting nuked? a day 1 correct lynch is great. There is no reason to risk that being fucked with. I have no idea if mafia can bus/heal/block this shot from rol or not. I say we take what we have. If kurumi is mafia, which he most likely is, we're ahead, no matter what else happens. The lynch is our safety net, you can't fuck with the lynch. In hindsight, now that we know Kurumi didn't die D1, maybe it would have been nice to lynch him D1 and not waste D2 like that. But at that point, Palmar was suggesting we use D1's lynch on someone we thought was going to die, in order to guarantee the kill.
Again, sounds good in hindsight. But with very little planning for mafia D1, the best thing for them after a no-lynch would be to get a lynch on someone who was already going to die. If kurumi was really mafia, he was a goner, and lynching him ensured that only one mafia died. Pushing for that doesn't feel outwardly scummy, but a lynch on Kurumi or RoL would have been mafia's best option D1.
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The kurumi wagon D2 isn't important. BH was almost lynched D1, so it's reasonable to think that he would have been lynched after Kurumi.
Still finding it odd to grab that role. Palmar said he found BH towny early, and I guess there wasn't a NEED to bring it up D2 or D3 since Kurumi was going to be lynched D2 and BH got VE-lynched without full votes. But it was clear that Palmar's arguments for town-BH D1 didn't fly and town still found BH scummy.
So the result of a pardoned BH in that case would be what? Wouldn't we just lynch BH the next day? Unless Palmar could convince town that BH was town, a pardon would just negate a lynch that would happen again. No gain for town.
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On July 24 2012 00:04 syllogism wrote:
Of course it's important. He can't "grab" the role before the role has flipped, so he is claiming that it was a day action and he took it on day 2 to save BH.
I'm saying it's not important because it was still apparent that BH was going to get lynched. Didn't matter that Kurumi was the D2 lynch, BH almost got lynched D1, nobody had come around and said "Wow I find BH town now." So while he wouldn't have pardoned BH D2, BH was looking like one of the main D3 and beyond candidates.
Actually, has anyone been copycat/mimic before? I was thinking that you'd have to choose a role shortly after a flip. If that's the case, then Palmar (if he's truthful here) would have had to go ahead and grab pardoner for a later BH lynch. If you can choose any dead player's role at any time after their flip (so long as you haven't chosen a role yet), then yeah, the Kurumi wagon would matter because he could have held off on picking up pardoner until the lynch was actually going to occur.
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On July 24 2012 08:04 gonzaw wrote:
I expected someone to answer me by now :/
@Prob: Will you answer what I posted before?
*sigh*
You guys better be right, I don't have a good feeling about this
##Unvote: Zealos
##Vote: Palmar
I'm going to the gym now and I think I'll be back right before the deadline. At the time this was written, Palmar had 17 votes. Zealos had 3. I can understand wanting to lynch someone only if you find them scum. But I can't really understand complaining that nobody will answer why Palmar might have put in effort D2 if he were scum. If you don't find him scummy or don't want to lynch him, don't.
He doesn't need extra consolidation votes, and you're miffed that nobody answered "Why would scum Palmar put in effort D2?" There are any number of reasons, but the answer to that question is pure speculation unless Palmar flips scum and you want to ask him after the game.
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I don't like the mirror assumption.
We've got BM claiming to control someone else's vote/power. Don't believe we've seen multiple votes off in a count, or any kind of secret second-vote/vote negation. Perhaps balanced by Palmar getting 2 pardons, but it's not exactly even.
Plus a lot of the KP roles have been weird. BH wasn't just a vigi, he was like...reverse self-conscious (that's the term, yes?). If he vigs town, he dies, so he was less a vig and more a superbusser. Foolishness had KP to kill mafia too. And you can add Kurumi's America role to the town side of that equation.
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EPT
