|
On August 01 2012 10:37 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 10:25 Probulous wrote:On August 01 2012 10:10 gonzaw wrote:Again: On August 01 2012 07:54 Probulous wrote:
PM Cops are irrelevant. Think about it, the people who the PM cops checked were all playing like mafia. The PM cop is the same as any other cop in that if you are playing with clarity they shouldn't check you. That "PM Cop" outed three scum when he caught my message. It's not "irrelevant" if he can catch more than 1 scum with a "check", or can know all about scum's strategies (even if he outs only 1 scum). I was responding to risk. My point was that playing a solo game would make PM snoopers irrelevant because you would aim to look as townie as possible. Remember snoopers only get PM that go to or come from the person they check. But then the snoopers would still check that minion and see he received a scum message 
Why would they check that minion? VE was never checked, Syllo was never checked, Sandroba was never checked, I was never checked. Now you can blame that on us having roles but we were not checked before we outed them. I agree that two snoopers was a lot but that doesn't make them overpowered. If you just ignored the mafia PMs (or even better outed them) and played as pro town as all hell, you make yourself "immune" to snoopers. Yes that makes you a mafia target but if mafia had a system to "prove" their allegience in thread the executive should realised your strategy. It was one I would have played if I rolled scum because I know my meta is so obvious if I am not out there actively and carefully scumhunting.
Show nested quote +I made my reasoning quite clear. The claim thing was dumb but it made no sense from a scum perspective either. Actually his whole play this game was terrible but it was not malicious and he doesn't have a record of playing fantastically. Compared to yourself who I know is really inciteful when you roll town, so I knew you were scum. I mean I almost got you lynched Day 1 and the only thing stopping me from pushing you later was I thought you were genuinely busy. That and we had better targets. Couldn't you say the same thing about sloosh? I mean, his claim didn't "make sense from a scum perspective" either (was just bad), and his play wasn't that incriminating (compared to Zealos at least). Yet Zealos was never considered as lynch at all yet sloosh was always "almost confirmed scum" ever since he claimed. Of course, unless I'm missing something that made people think "Zealos is town" and "sloosh is scum" that didn't have anything to do with their "dumb claims/reactions".
I have much higher expectations of slOosh than Zealos. For Christ sake look at my last agme with slOosh. He owned on Day 1 but was ignored and that was why I kept asking for his opinion. When he replied in a lacklustre way I knew something was off. Then his claim seemed so unlike a town slOosh that I knew he was mafia. It didn't make sense and slOosh does not do things that don't make sense. Call it meta if you will.
Show nested quote +Look at your targets for scumhunting. They were easy to push, you never went after the really big fish and you never raised something completely new. If you are behind (people think you are scum) you have to do something different. Something big. It was really hard to establish your innocence in this setup because everyone should have been legitimately scumhunting. This was true for town and for scum. The problem scum had was they decided not to do that on Day 1 which meant you guys were never truly cleared. I tried doing that with supersoft on D2 and nobody paid attention to me at all (even if they agreed) By that point I knew I had zero town presence and everything I did was pointless basically. The only thing I aimed to do was: save Palmar on D3 (a 2-shot scum Pardoner could have been very useful in late-game), and try to convince people I was town by the way I pushed my reads (on players I thought were scum/town). As you can see my reads sucked as well so that didn't help :/
That is the problem with being mafia. You have to try and make a case against someone who is town and so the case has to have flaws. You were a victim of your own success. I know you play well as scum and I know you play well as town so I was cautious of you from the start. When you didn't live up to my expectations even after you were almost lynched I was pretty sure you were mafia. Than when you came in defending Palmar for no apparent reason it solidified the read in my head.
BTW I was tossing up between lynching you or layabout for my kingmaker hit. Both fo coming out of nowhere having done nothing of substance and then suddenly defending Palmar who had also done minimal work just screamed mafia to me.
|
On August 01 2012 10:50 Probulous wrote:
BTW I was tossing up between lynching you or layabout for my kingmaker hit. Both fo coming out of nowhere having done nothing of substance and then suddenly defending Palmar who had also done minimal work just screamed mafia to me. Would have been interesting to see how the game played out had you gone for gonzaw.
|
Also everybody should have realised that Kurumi's response to his PM did not make sense for somebody that is mafia. I didn't try to explain this because explaining how mafia should think and act goes against town goals but no mafia member in their right mind should respond to this:
Use "of course" "pretty sure" and "very well" in the same post so your peers can identify you as soon as you read this. Look for this combination starting tonight to identify the others.
by posting:
On July 17 2012 05:02 Kurumi wrote:Was there every any doubt? Of course, you might've thought I was bluffing. Pretty sure chaos is fun! I was too bored to keep up, so I said " Very well, let's make it fun!" and so I did. Don't worry, that's one of the high ranks or CEO himself/herself down.
Any mafia that received this should have thought "why the hell would i be given such a short message when there is no word limit?"
or "why do i want to identify myself as mafia in the thread?"
or "why do i need to know who the other mafia are?"
or "why does this message contain so little information?"
+this
On July 17 2012 06:52 Kurumi wrote:
I will say it again:
If I were mafia, when I got this message there should be someone crumbing those words earlier. I was the first person to do that. Why would a Director/CEO NOT do that? Meh.
+ Kurumi said he playing along with what he perceived to be a third party mechanic in a themed game. That's a totally understandable thing to do in a themed game.
I still think it was correct to lynch him but there was real reason to doubt the flip.
I spent ages thinking about all of this stuff and i thought that was what we should deal with when i returned. Unlike the rest of you i had reason to doubt that the nukes would go off. I don't know why i was given flak for voting gonzaw day1. At the time i left the thread he is who sand/wbg were trying to lynch, he looked scummy and he was scum.
|
On August 01 2012 10:56 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 10:50 Probulous wrote:
BTW I was tossing up between lynching you or layabout for my kingmaker hit. Both fo coming out of nowhere having done nothing of substance and then suddenly defending Palmar who had also done minimal work just screamed mafia to me. Would have been interesting to see how the game played out had you gone for gonzaw.
Indeed...there were plenty of people not willing to lynch laya for his little display.
e: ...although this is probably part of the reason you chose laya in the end, I'm assuming.
|
The period between Night 2 and Day 3 is where the game was lost for mafia. They traded Sandroba for three mafia kills including the CEO. Game over man. By then you had myself, VE, Syllo, and Supersoft as confirmed town with BM and Chez never really a likely lynch target. Too many town not enough mafia. The PM stuff that came later was just icing on the cake.
|
Day1 was dominated by everyone and their mother thinking that kurumi was scum and then deciding not to lynch him. Somewhere along the way sandroba became confirmed town and wbg and him had huge thread presence. Once this happened mafia had very little ability to control the thread and going after either one of them would very likely have gotten you lynch because there was next to no reason for a townie to doubt them. When you consider that day 2's lynch was decided from the offset it should be no surprise that mafia activity was so low and remained low for the rest of the game.
|
On August 01 2012 11:03 Probulous wrote:
The period between Night 2 and Day 3 is where the game was lost for mafia. They traded Sandroba for three mafia kills including the CEO. Game over man. By then you had myself, VE, Syllo, and Supersoft as confirmed town with BM and Chez never really a likely lynch target. Too many town not enough mafia. The PM stuff that came later was just icing on the cake.
That just demonstrates the power of your role when used effectively, before that there had be a no lynch, a mis-lynch and a mis-nuke. Maybe there should have been more mafia KP. Of course the balance of themed games is always unstable but since town played very well and mafia played poorly there is not much to moan about.
|
On August 01 2012 10:57 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 10:56 austinmcc wrote:On August 01 2012 10:50 Probulous wrote:
BTW I was tossing up between lynching you or layabout for my kingmaker hit. Both fo coming out of nowhere having done nothing of substance and then suddenly defending Palmar who had also done minimal work just screamed mafia to me. Would have been interesting to see how the game played out had you gone for gonzaw. Indeed...there were plenty of people not willing to lynch laya for his little display. e: ...although this is probably part of the reason you chose laya in the end, I'm assuming.
Exactly. Having a vig shot allows you to make calls town might not make on their own. Gonzaw looked scum for all money so I went with layabout. Turns out it wouldn't have mattered.
BTW VE, I really don't like the way you gave me that lynch with conditions. If I had chosen Meapak or Zealos (ROFL both town aligned) you could legitimately have said I was abstaining from the responsibility you gave me. Then when I lynch a different person you thought I was scum because I didn't abstain from the responsibility. If the whole purpose of making me king was to test my alignment you were going to interpret it badly either way.
It was why I had doubts about you. It is a lose lose for me if I am town. I had to lynch scum and it had to be someone other than Zealos or Meapak. Even then, it wasn't good enough.
|
On August 01 2012 11:08 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 11:03 Probulous wrote:
The period between Night 2 and Day 3 is where the game was lost for mafia. They traded Sandroba for three mafia kills including the CEO. Game over man. By then you had myself, VE, Syllo, and Supersoft as confirmed town with BM and Chez never really a likely lynch target. Too many town not enough mafia. The PM stuff that came later was just icing on the cake. That just demonstrates the power of your role when used effectively, before that there had be a no lynch, a mis-lynch and a mis-nuke. Maybe there should have been more mafia KP. Of course the balance of themed games is always unstable but since town played very well and mafia played poorly there is not much to moan about.
I agree. I think less town KP would have been better. It maens the game drags on (town favoured) but it removes the ability of town to completely rape scum in a short period.
|
On August 01 2012 11:04 layabout wrote:
Day1 was dominated by everyone and their mother thinking that kurumi was scum and then deciding not to lynch him.
Which was logical was it not? We had no info that the nukes were duds. If RoL had let us know this thatn obviously he would have been lynched.
Somewhere along the way sandroba became confirmed town and wbg and him had huge thread presence. Once this happened mafia had very little ability to control the thread and going after either one of them would very likely have gotten you lynch because there was next to no reason for a townie to doubt them. When you consider that day 2's lynch was decided from the offset it should be no surprise that mafia activity was so low and remained low for the rest of the game.
I disagree. The Day 2 lynch was a perfect opportunity for the major scum players to take control precisely because everyone was being passive. You have to take a chance to win.
|
On August 01 2012 11:04 layabout wrote:
Day1 was dominated by everyone and their mother thinking that kurumi was scum and then deciding not to lynch him. Somewhere along the way sandroba became confirmed town and wbg and him had huge thread presence. Once this happened mafia had very little ability to control the thread and going after either one of them would very likely have gotten you lynch because there was next to no reason for a townie to doubt them. When you consider that day 2's lynch was decided from the offset it should be no surprise that mafia activity was so low and remained low for the rest of the game.
Here's where you lost me. Don't be afraid of so-called "town leaders" dominating the thread - a wise rapper once said...
YOU GOTTA TAKE THE POWER BACK!!!
Like, at that point, there had been NO scum lynches guy...NONE. NO ONE was so confirmed that simply opposing them would earn you the rope. I mean, I was never pushed as a lynch candidate in spite of loudly and often calling Sandroba and syllogism scum all effing game.
|
That's why I love playing with a town VE. Paranoia overwhelming. It keeps people honest and it separates the scum from the town.
ROFL I sided with Foolishness and pushed Syllo Day 1 but was never a real lynch prospect.
|
Prob I didn't give you the lynch with conditions. I gave you the lynch, period. It wasn't a test, and I wasn't testing your alignment. At the time, I was convinced you were scum...illogically and irrationally, but I was convinced. But, because I could find no discernable evidence of such in your posting, I calculated that you would make an earnest attempt to lynch scum regardless of your alignment.
Thankfully, my senses returned before scum could jump on the opportunity to really nurture that seed of doubt. 
|
On August 01 2012 11:16 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 11:04 layabout wrote:
Day1 was dominated by everyone and their mother thinking that kurumi was scum and then deciding not to lynch him. Somewhere along the way sandroba became confirmed town and wbg and him had huge thread presence. Once this happened mafia had very little ability to control the thread and going after either one of them would very likely have gotten you lynch because there was next to no reason for a townie to doubt them. When you consider that day 2's lynch was decided from the offset it should be no surprise that mafia activity was so low and remained low for the rest of the game. Here's where you lost me. Don't be afraid of so-called "town leaders" dominating the thread - a wise rapper once said... YOU GOTTA TAKE THE POWER BACK!!! Like, at that point, there had been NO scum lynches guy...NONE. NO ONE was so confirmed that simply opposing them would earn you the rope. I mean, I was never pushed as a lynch candidate in spite of loudly and often calling Sandroba and syllogism scum all effing game.
ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWER!
But you do that all the effing time as both alignments. If i had called sandroba scum particularly after i was labelled scum for being away i would have bee treated like scum by the enitire thread and been lynched either that day or the next. Sandroba was clearly town based on the role he had claimed, his usage of it, and his play in previous games. Besides the only reason you called Sandroba scum was because of some bussing theory based off of something that cheznui wrote.
Once a player has people following them with votes you either have to cast doubt on them which puts you at great risk or treat them like they are town.
|
I see, well it worked out in the end. Thanks I guess. I never realised you thought my scum play was that good.
|
On August 01 2012 11:26 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 11:16 VisceraEyes wrote:On August 01 2012 11:04 layabout wrote:
Day1 was dominated by everyone and their mother thinking that kurumi was scum and then deciding not to lynch him. Somewhere along the way sandroba became confirmed town and wbg and him had huge thread presence. Once this happened mafia had very little ability to control the thread and going after either one of them would very likely have gotten you lynch because there was next to no reason for a townie to doubt them. When you consider that day 2's lynch was decided from the offset it should be no surprise that mafia activity was so low and remained low for the rest of the game. Here's where you lost me. Don't be afraid of so-called "town leaders" dominating the thread - a wise rapper once said... YOU GOTTA TAKE THE POWER BACK!!! Like, at that point, there had been NO scum lynches guy...NONE. NO ONE was so confirmed that simply opposing them would earn you the rope. I mean, I was never pushed as a lynch candidate in spite of loudly and often calling Sandroba and syllogism scum all effing game. ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWER! But you do that all the effing time as both alignments. If i had called sandroba scum particularly after i was labelled scum for being away i would have bee treated like scum by the enitire thread and been lynched either that day or the next. Sandroba was clearly town based on the role he had claimed, his usage of it, and his play in previous games. Besides the only reason you called Sandroba scum was because of some bussing theory based off of something that cheznui wrote. Once a player has people following them with votes you either have to cast doubt on them which puts you at great risk or treat them like they are town.
See that's where we disagree...you going after thread-leaders would have made you seem townie to me. Cowering in the shadows while others do the bulk of the posting is far scummier than calling down people up on a high-horse. 10 times out of 10.
On August 01 2012 11:26 Probulous wrote:
I see, well it worked out in the end. Thanks I guess. I never realised you thought my scum play was that good.
Your town play is good - why would your scum play not be good? And I only LUCKED into catching you in that C9++, remember? 
|
On August 01 2012 11:18 Probulous wrote:
That's why I love playing with a town VE. Paranoia overwhelming. It keeps people honest and it separates the scum from the town.
ROFL I sided with Foolishness and pushed Syllo Day 1 but was never a real lynch prospect.
and people wondered why I had to message VE twice... Got to cover your own butt before your job!
|
On August 01 2012 11:33 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 11:26 layabout wrote:On August 01 2012 11:16 VisceraEyes wrote:On August 01 2012 11:04 layabout wrote:
Day1 was dominated by everyone and their mother thinking that kurumi was scum and then deciding not to lynch him. Somewhere along the way sandroba became confirmed town and wbg and him had huge thread presence. Once this happened mafia had very little ability to control the thread and going after either one of them would very likely have gotten you lynch because there was next to no reason for a townie to doubt them. When you consider that day 2's lynch was decided from the offset it should be no surprise that mafia activity was so low and remained low for the rest of the game. Here's where you lost me. Don't be afraid of so-called "town leaders" dominating the thread - a wise rapper once said... YOU GOTTA TAKE THE POWER BACK!!! Like, at that point, there had been NO scum lynches guy...NONE. NO ONE was so confirmed that simply opposing them would earn you the rope. I mean, I was never pushed as a lynch candidate in spite of loudly and often calling Sandroba and syllogism scum all effing game. ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWER! But you do that all the effing time as both alignments. If i had called sandroba scum particularly after i was labelled scum for being away i would have bee treated like scum by the enitire thread and been lynched either that day or the next. Sandroba was clearly town based on the role he had claimed, his usage of it, and his play in previous games. Besides the only reason you called Sandroba scum was because of some bussing theory based off of something that cheznui wrote. Once a player has people following them with votes you either have to cast doubt on them which puts you at great risk or treat them like they are town. See that's where we disagree...you going after thread-leaders would have made you seem townie to me. Cowering in the shadows while others do the bulk of the posting is far scummier than calling down people up on a high-horse. 10 times out of 10. Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 11:26 Probulous wrote:
I see, well it worked out in the end. Thanks I guess. I never realised you thought my scum play was that good. Your town play is good - why would your scum play not be good? And I only LUCKED into catching you in that C9++, remember?
Surely it would depend on whether or not going after town leaders makes sense for a townie? I wanted to push syllogism but i ballsed it up by relying on Palmar and Foolishness's credibility.
+ Show Spoiler +
|
<3
It does, but you have to keep in mind that at that point, people just wanted you to say SOMETHING sir! lol
And going after loud people you disagree with is EXACTLY what I'd expect town layabout to do.
|
I don't get how that Palmar wagon just happened out of thin air.
Like...BH died, and everybody was like "Yeah let's kill Palmar" and then other people were like "Okay" and that's it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
