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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
On June 23 2012 08:17 marvellosity wrote: alright, but if we put me aside for a moment would you rather have risk or zentor with you day 2 to smoke out scum? I think risk.nuke's more likely to get passionate when he thinks he's caught a scum. Based on Zentor's recent play, he is more likely to just post filters and not actually tell us he thinks that person is scum. | ||
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On June 23 2012 08:42 VisceraEyes wrote: Sum of All Fears Mafia He's clearly capable, but he's just not. It could be scummy, but with everyone calling for his head, if he's town I can't fault him for not wanting to post in that kind of environment can you? Risk.Nuke I'm basing on my interactions with him in IRC Mafia and one of my first games back here, Election Mafia. Immediately I thought he was scum because of how he was pushing his reads, but he was PUSHING HIS READS ya know? Hard, too...like, scummy hard is what I thought, but I was wrong. Wow, I've actually never seen risk.nuke come out that strong in recent games. I'd be interested in hearing him explain why that is. | ||
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
On June 23 2012 14:37 slOosh wrote: It's like he wants to be lynched or something ... ##Unvote: Snarfs ##Vote: MrZentor Snarfs, I don't see how you can deem that the bolded strikethrough as irrelevant when referring to your thoughts on rastaban. How is it irrelevant? Because without the full context it doesn't make sense? I was just trying to condense my quotes so that I didn't have a giant wall of text.... I don't really see how you're trying to make a case out of this. On June 24 2012 00:53 slOosh wrote: This lynch feels ... wrong. MrZentor, I need your full thoughts on rastaban and Snarfs. I'm having suspicions that you are a foolish town player and as much as I would like to lynch you for poor, poor play, we don't lynch bad players, we lynch scum. So quickly, your thoughts on rastaban and Snarfs. And also Probulous. If you put in effort I'll help take the lynch off you. Snarfs I'm still waiting; just because the bandwagon on MrZentor is rolling doesn't mean we all take a reprieve. For God's sake, I can't even take a Friday night off? You're just going out of your way to make me look bad! Hmm RE: MrZentor lynch, I get what slOosh is saying about it feeling wrong. Something seems off about prplhz and how he sort of spearheaded this lynch by first starting with a vote on MrZentor and then his case just kept getting stronger and stronger. Normally when you're hunting scum you: 1) Find evidence that someone might be scum 2) Vote said person 3) If you're really sure, try to convince others that he's scum However, what I'm seeing here from prplhz is: 1) Vote said person 2) Try to convince others to vote said person 3) Find evidence that he might be scum I would appreciate some others looking over prplhz again and telling me what they think. | ||
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
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Snarfs
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In the meantime though, like VE, I'll be around for the next hour or so so if anyone has any questions feel free to ask. | ||
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
I actually like prplhz's case on zephirdd and I'm having a hard time justifying his response from a town point of view because of how purposefully vague it appears to be: On June 24 2012 05:48 Zephirdd wrote: Maybe I should have explained it better. I said it was "the most glaring scum tell" because there wasn't anything else at the time. In the same post, I say that it's probably just a bad case. From what I've read, he is looking similar to his BangBang2 meta. similar. First off, zephir appears to be saying that he is reading rasta as town. However, the italicized "similar" indicates to me that he is not committing to this stance at that point in time. It shows a person who wants to be able to backtrack on their words later on so that they can claim that they never felt one way or another about their reads. A town player should have no worries saying that they have a town read on someone if they truly do, but zephir is trying to cover his tracks. Notice how this is a theme in his entire response to people calling him out: What do you expect me to do? Push for a no-lynch? That's essentially what I would do at this point. I disagree with a rastaban lynch right now. I agree with a MrZentor lynch right now. I disagree with both marv or VE lynch right now, but I will come back to this later. The problem about their lynch is that one is connected to another, but if one flips town then there is nothing to back up for the other lynch. tbh, a vigilante could use a shot on one of them(here vigis in this setup?) [--snip--] Again, he responds in a manner that never actually reveals his opinions on people.
Even in his recent posts, it appears that he believes marv and VE are a scum team, but rather than actually attempting to prove that they are scum by finding real evidence, he makes crazy guesses which seem downright silly (as in, what information can be gathered from positing such wild ideas?) and doesn't actually show any commitment to pushing either marv or VE: On June 25 2012 08:49 Zephirdd wrote: That's not the thing. There is Probulous, Mattchew, prplhz, Snarfs, you, sloosh(...) who would be viable night shot targets. Why would they pick VE out of them all, considering most of his actions day 1 was to fight you and that's it? When there are so many targets out there, why would they shoot VE of them all? Let me tell you what I think happened. VE was jailed. Then scum KP didn't happen. Then you thought "fuck, our goon was jailed." and then you posted that. Overall, zephir's entire play this game has shown a fear to commit to any particular line of thinking; a fear I don't believe a town player would have, which is why I believe zephir is scum. Now, another person who's been avoiding the spotlight and also caught my attention recently is Shraft. This one I'm a little less sure about and I think the fact that I have a town read on risk.nuke might be influencing my opinions. However, something about this post just seems off: On June 25 2012 10:30 Shraft wrote: risk.nuke you need to step up your game. Wanting to lynch lurers and then lurking hard yourself makes you look bad. On top of that your only substantial post is the one where you defend yourself (you never followed up on that post either, despite saying that you would). Why would you even bother defending that hard when nobody agreed with his case anyway? You ask for the other lurkers to share their reads and to contribute, but you do nothing of the kind yourself. Aside from lurkers, you're only suspicious of rastaban (but you haven't really shared much thought on him either, it looks more like OMGUS to me). And what the fuck is this? He would've tried to dodge the lynch regardless of his alignment, why do you act as if it is a scum tell? I'm not sure exactly what it is about this post that gets me, but it just seems like he's trying too hard to make something out of nothing. I don't even think risk.nuke mentions wanting to lynch lurkers. And asking why someone would bother defending themselves? I can imagine why a towny would want to defend themself.... It's certainly not a case on Shraft, more just a feeling at this point, but I'm definitely keeping my eye on him. For now though, my vote goes on zephir. ##Vote zephirdd | ||
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Snarfs
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On June 25 2012 22:40 Shraft wrote: @Snarfs I'm not trying to make something out of nothing. The issue with that post is that he takes something that is a null tell and says that it makes rastaban look even scummier. The reason that I brought up that he unnecessarily defended is because he mentioned it in bypass in this post where he said he wanted MrZ to explain himself. He says "He spends half of his posts unnecessarily defending himself and the other half is useless 1-worders.". You're right on the lurker lynching part, he never explicitly says "I want to lynch lurkers". I took it for granted that he had said something along those lines after reading someone else's post about risk, quite likely this post by VE, but now, after looking through his filter, I realised that he hadn't. The closest thing he's said would be that he was too lenient on lurkers before, which clearly isn't the same thing. risk.nuke is a null tell for me right now. Can you explain why you have a town read on him? Hmm that makes sense. I'd actually missed the part where he mentions that MrZ spends half his posts unnecessarily defending himself. It was actually this quote here that gave me a towny vibe on risk.nuke: On June 23 2012 10:15 risk.nuke wrote: So my first thought is what two players are yelling the loudest at eachother. It's Vicera and Marv. So naturally my first assumption would be to remove both of those from my day 1 lynch pool. While Vicera doubtlessly seems like the towniest townie ever towned marv seems a bit scummy. Partly because how his inabillity to see how Vicera is town. If one of VE or marv are scum, then risk.nuke is tying himself closely to the lynch and that seems like bad scum play given we would surely come back and notice that risk.nuke didn't want to lynch into them during day 1. If VE and marv are both town, I don't think that mafia would immediately think to remove two loud players from their lynch pool, but would rather be looking to see which one appeared weaker or had a bandwagon form on them in order to eliminate the more vocal members. Either way I wouldn't see a scum player wanting to make this statement. I'm going to go through VE and marv's back and forth again today. I think I also need to go over Probulous again given slOosh's suspicions, but I probably won't have time until this evening as I've got a pile of work to do today. | ||
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
- I agree that marv's case on VE was entirely a stretch. To reference his conclusion: On June 26 2012 00:33 marvellosity wrote: Conclusion: All his scumhunting is a sham. He knows and states I'm an excellent scum player, but somehow then thinks I would come into this game as scum and play scummily. He twists my words. He never talks about rastaban despite promising to, despite saying he didn't want to lynch Zentor and rastaban being the main alternative. In fact he never pushes any alternative. Pushes prplhz because it's an easy thing to do. - It's all WIFOM for us to guess what you would do as scum - You're exaggerating to say that he twists your words - Yes, he never talks about rastaban, but that is a null tell - both scum and town can get busy and/or forget to respond to certain things - He pushes you and prplhz and at least mentions his suspicions of zephir, plus you're clearly his biggest scum read On June 26 2012 11:42 Probulous wrote: marvellosity [--snip--] TLDR: marvel was caught off guard by Mattchew's question and chose to throw it back to the thread. This in itself could be a town response but when he told us that his scummy behaviour made him town, he hit on a plan to ensure he wasn't lynched. He knew his initial response was inadequate but chose to use his scummy response as a tool to cause confusion and shit up the thread. By never taking the multiples chances he had, to clarify his original position, he ensured that the mess continued for as long as possible. Whenever VE or I pushed him to contribute he could just reply with his meta defense that he cannot be scum because scum would never do this. If we believe that, then we would never lynch anyone. If he had just stated the truth, that he responded rashly and would take the time to provide a proper answer, I would have dropped this case. But his insistence that it takes up as much of Day 1 as possible makes me believe he is mafia. ##Vote marvellosity - Why would town continue to be vague and confusing in their responses after seeing that people thought it was scummy? I have to agree with Probulous's case here and Shraft's own recently posted opinions. marv consciously played an anti-town day 1 and I just don't believe that he would do that as town after being mislynched so recently in a similar game. ##Vote marvellosity @Mattchew: You list marv as one of your scum reads; yet for some reason you think that rastaban is a better lynch today? You even say that "Either way [marv] eventually needs a noose." So why bother prolonging this if you're that sure he needs to hang? Protecting your scumbuddy? | ||
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
On June 26 2012 03:43 rastaban wrote: @Snarfs But notice how even after he says to remove both of them he follows up with "marv seems a bit scummy. Partly because how his inabillity to see how Vicera is town." which leaves it open for a future vote and still throws suspicion on marv. As for removing VE from the lynch pool, marvs recent vote on VE was the first this whole game. Despite the back and forth it was only ever 1 way, VE was not in any danger of being lyched at any point so all he really states is: don't vote marv yet, but he is a bit scummy. Also a lot of people had come out in defense of marv by that point saying we need to hold off on lynching him. If this had been the one to help get the votes off marv I would be more inclined to think it town aligned but as it is, it just seems regurgitated to me. I think I might have had the timings wrong on that one. For some reason I thought that both VE and marv were viable candidates at that time so if risk.nuke wanted to move the vote one way or the other he could have at least attempted to do so. Looking back though, you're right, VE was never really a candidate. | ||
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
On June 25 2012 08:07 Probulous wrote: If a person is jailed are they notified? If so, is the notification the same as if they have been roleblocked? On June 26 2012 09:46 Probulous wrote: Some of you have missed my reasoning for this post. Since we had two day posts with different night actions I wanted to see if I could glean some information from reactions between those two posts. Remember scum and the SK would be expecting night kills. If I was an SK and my shot didn't go through I would know I had been roleblocked but with no notification. Hence I would be completely confused, expecially given the shot was likely Zephirdd (explained previously). So I would have to assume that either the host got the night stuff mixed up, or they forgot to send me my PM, or I don't get a notification of a blocked hit. There would be a big chance that someone roleblocked me preventing my kill and that could be town or mafia, so coming out and saying anything about the SK would be risky. Especially immediately after the night. No I would expect the SK to be much more cautious after possibly being blocked, hence my statement. Anyone else notice this? Looks like Prob slipped and claimed SK. | ||
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On June 26 2012 15:15 Probulous wrote: ROFL, I love you Snarfs. No I am not the SK. Yes I was roleblocked. I guess my strategy of playing blues roles just like plain VT roles is finally paying off! Come on mafia, I dare you to block me again, am I a VT or am I blue  If you have any questions about that post, let me know because no-one has commented on it. @VE, that is my only concern as well. The only motivation I can find is that it causes mayhem and he clearly felt he was never going to get lynched, so why not make the entire first day about him? It gives cover to other scum and I have no doubt that a scum marv would have the balls to pull it off (bad image I know). I also want to know why people are happy voting for him now and not yesterday. Well, I don't fully follow your reasoning for why an SK would not want to assert that there must not be an SK in the game, but that seems more like post-game discussion material. | ||
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Canada1006 Posts
On June 27 2012 00:17 marvellosity wrote: His argument is thusly: He's played this was as town before, so he can't be town! He's not played this way as scum, so I'm going to ignore that fact and say he must be scum! Logic fail. Actually, my argument is thusly: Premiss 1: He was recently mislynched as town Premiss 2: If he's town he'd be more worried about being mislynched because of (1) Premiss 3: He is not acting like he's worried about being mislynched Conclusion: Not town. Premiss 1 is verifiable Premiss 2 is hard to dismiss on the basis that your mislynch contributed to us losing the game and I don't think that you like losing games. Premiss 3 is reflected in your "I'm actually playing a scummy town game" defense. @risk.nuke: You say VE is the towniest town that ever towned. Marv says he's going to kill VE if you let him live. You say that marv should be left alive. What? Now that's a logic fail. | ||
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
On June 27 2012 01:33 marvellosity wrote: This game is fun. Premise 1: I never play scummily as scum Premise 2: I therefore never get lynched as scum Premise 3: Therefore I would not put myself in this position Premise 1 is verifiable Premise 2 is verifiable Premise 3 is reflected in this game. BUT, you dismiss the scumplaying marv argument, and only stick to the townplaying marv argument. Scum. But if nobody expects you to play scummily as scum, then that's the perfect scum play T_T. | ||
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- Why would town continue to be vague and confusing in their responses after seeing that people thought it was scummy? | ||
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On June 27 2012 02:06 marvellosity wrote: And why would scum continue to be so vague and confusing when people thought it was scummy? To make themselves look more scummy? What? Fuck, it doesn't make sense from either perspective. The only explanation is that you were either scum not thinking or town not thinking. | ||
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