TL Mafia LVI
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Acrofales
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On June 22 2012 06:29 grush57 wrote: SIGN UP OR I GO CRAZY NOW. go? | ||
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On June 28 2012 13:02 alan133 wrote: /in Newbies are allowed, right? :D I know edits are not allowed, but the game has not started and it is more neat this way [questions] Does 3 KP means 3 kills? If there are less than 3 scums, do they still get 3 kills? I noticed it says "current" KP. Does it mean it will change over time? Vig shoot scum, scum shoot vig. what happens? I am unclear what a mat hatter is. Can you confirm this? Each night you get to pick one target. You may stack up to two targets (I assume that takes 2 nights). You can also change your target, which is counted as 1 action. In short, every night, you can do one of the following, aim your cannon at one target or switch target. If you got night killed or lynched, your targets will die. Can you also choose to disarm your cannon? (aim at no one) Does that count as one night action? Mafia KP is the number of mafia alive divided by two (rounded up). So mafia KP will start at 3 and go down as town catches scum. So when there are 3 scum left, their KP is 2. Shot resolution depends on the mods, but I think in that situation the vig and mafia will both be dead (sometimes mafia kills are resolved first, so just the vig would die). Your description of the mad hatter is correct (and yes, placing 2 bombs takes 2 nights). Once the mad hatter dies, any bombs he placed blow up (doing 1 KP each). I guess you could probably disarm it, but I don't know of any plays where the mad hatter actually took off a bomb (just move them to another scummy target). | ||
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On June 29 2012 07:05 Drazerk wrote: I only have 10 fingers and toes dammit how am I supposed to count Binary. Using just your hands gets you up to 1024, which is more than enough! | ||
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On June 30 2012 05:56 marvellosity wrote: na never scummy as town bro I read LIII: you're not scummy as scum either... you're like Radfield! | ||
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. . . . . and policy lynch VE D2 unless he claims medic D1 (in which case lynch him D1)! | ||
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EDIT: oh, not sure in this game. I thought hatter lost his bombs. But I only played with a hatter in a very very non-standard game. | ||
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On June 30 2012 06:49 austinmcc wrote: Nobody should be mayor with this for a platform. Agreed. | ||
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ET, you with me? Also, I think austinmcc is onto something. The bit about not trusting someone saying that something trustworthy is untrustworthy is completely unintelligible. Trust me, I have a doctorate in that shit. That clearly makes one of austinmcc and Mattchew scum! Or both! Or neither! Ah fuck, it's bedtime! | ||
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On June 30 2012 14:23 Bill Murray wrote: VE's selfvote shenanigans is scummy I do not agree with faking confirmation bias I disagree. A selfvote at this point is completely null: it's the start of D1 when votes mean nothing, and who the hell knows why VE does what he does anyway? However, with all the pre-game "policy lynch VE" stuff going on (it was fun, but lets not take that shit seriously), I think scum could be pushing a VE lynch based on shitty evidence like this. ##vote BillMurray | ||
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On June 30 2012 18:29 Bill Murray wrote: so youre voting me because you disagree with me? cool story, bro No. My vote is because this is a pretty shitty excuse to want to lynch VE and I see no reason why town would want to lynch VE on a shitty pretense. Lets talk about VE: what makes you think he's scum (other than that vote, which I disagree is a tell)? | ||
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On June 30 2012 14:23 casualman wrote: I love to bandwagon. Being a newb, I can read nothing from these posts and will blindly trust in authority figures. Woohoo! ##Vote BroodKingEXE On June 30 2012 18:06 drwiggl3s wrote: ##Vote BroodKingEXE As Mattchew put it so succinctly: what the hell is this? | ||
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On June 30 2012 10:03 BroodKingEXE wrote: I want to start out discussing newbies. How are we as a town going to deal with players that are not as strong (as we do have a couple in the game)? Personally I think that these players need to be examined for the intent of their posts more than the evidence that they provide. Newbies still need to figure out what types of evidence are valid for examining a person, and we need to look at whether they are trying to draw out info from nothing or if there was actually a scummy read behind it. In the last few games I have played newbies have been lynched from poor evidence when they in fact were legitimately trying to help the town. I want everyone to take this in mind as we deal with newbies. On June 30 2012 10:30 BroodKingEXE wrote: Saying that this is your 5th time in a row being town-aligned has the undercurrent of convincing us you are town in this game, and you dodge posting responsibility by it being a Friday. This is a scummy post to start out with. The way this reads to me: "I am BKEXE, champion of the newbies! I will defend your cause, even if you play badly". You rightfully got called out on it: newbies should be expected to play to win just the same as veterans should. That they have questionable logic is sometimes true, but that doesn't make them scummier or townier than others, it just makes them wrong. Point out why they're wrong and move on. Being wrong doesn't make you scum (per sé): it's distinguishing whether someone is wrong because he's new to scumhunting, or wrong because he's scum twisting townies to look like scum that is the tell. However, that aside, you want to champion the newbie cause. 3 posts later you are ready to nail the first newbie who posts in the thread to the cross. Next thing up, casualman posts his retarded bandwagon sheep crap. He also claims he's a noob. So in response you OMGUS vote him. This just does not sit well. One of the things that was hammered on in the post-game analysis of liar game (didn't play myself, just read it) was pointing out how ET started the game with a promise, but never followed up on it. This is feeling rather similar. ##FoS BKExe | ||
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On June 30 2012 18:47 Bill Murray wrote: your selfvote does not fool me VE VE + Acrofales scumteam calling it now Lol. Nice OMGUS. So let me follow your thought process. 1. VE is scum because he voted for himself, which only scum would do to look townie. 2. I call the reason dumb (which I guess could conceivably be seen as a defense of VE, but was more an attack on you. I am still pretty null on VE). 3. Instead of backing up your reason for voting VE with some actual evidence, you OMGUS and conclude that VE and I must be scum together. Do I really need to point out the multiple logic fails in here? | ||
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On June 30 2012 19:23 Kurumi wrote: Ouch. My back is killing me. I would like my fellow friends to stop bickering. We have a job to do. I do not comprehend why our associate is such a sloth. He should be interrogated quickly. Who is the Ringleader? What is the purpose of the dyes? Why are you wearing those goggles? I know asking Kurumi to make sense is always utterly pointless, but could you please be less obtuse than this... @ghost: why wasn't Kurumi on your policy lynch list? If anybody is generally impossible to read, it's this guy. | ||
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As for BKE: I have a bad feeling either way about him. I'm not sure about the easy bandwagon forming on him. On the other hand, I feel the accusations have merit. I want him to answer the cases before I consider him as a serious alternative to BM. | ||
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On June 30 2012 22:33 Hyaach wrote: its not lurk ville 300. i just have no idea how to play day 1s. So your solution is to do nothing? I suggest you tell us your thoughts on BM/BKE/Kurumi and take it from there. Plenty to discuss already. The problem I have with people saying "D1 sucks" or "I have no idea how to play D1" is that this just leads into having nothing to say D1, then having a D2 in which scum has shot some people who did contribute D1 and the non-contributors of D1 are left without anything to say D2 either. This continues until scum wins the game. The whole point of D1 is to start posting and getting a feel for one another. If half of town lurks, then scum can lurk too and enjoy trying to find the few scum hiding in the giant pile of inactive town. Far better to have people posting and actively scumhunting. My own opinion on Kurumi: we should just policy lynch people who post an unintelligible jumble of words regardless of alignment until they stop doing it. Kurumi is one of those guys who I cannot get a read on regardless of what he is (bluelightz is another). Not a bad D1 lynch if we lack alternatives. I prefer BM, though. | ||
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On June 30 2012 23:30 Vivax wrote: I trust BillMurray in his case against VisceraEyes and acrofales. Why? I looked through VE's filter and didn't like it, then saw acrofales jumping in with this to try and defend him: VE can defend himself, but how about you actually say what you didn't like about his filter. At the time I jumped in I got a pretty null read on VE (I have found VE pretty hard to read in any case). Since then I think he actually looks townier, but not going to bet my life on that read. That self-vote stunt wasn't shitty evidence. It was probably planned in egocentrical way by a scum player. I can understand if someone placed his vote on somebody else for no apparent reason, since that will immediately force someone to defend himself (or he can try and make it look like he's lurking). I don't see how a self-vote would create a good atmoshpere for town. It might all be for shits and giggles pre-game, but ingame it just might be an exaggerated attempt to act like an overconfident townie and just causes confusion. I don't really see how a self-vote at the start of D1 creates a bad atmosphere for town either. It's null. How do you figure this for a scum tell? Trumping it up to build a case out of it, however, could be a way to test the bandwagon waters on him. My initial case on BM was not all that strong, I admit, but I didn't like the move and called him out on it with an early vote. I liked his response to my pressure even less. Also, Acrofales, I find you to be scummy by finding a reason to jump out of cover and defend someone, but finding no reason to make own cases and post reads. I didn't jump out of cover, I woke up... even hyperactive crazy people like myself need to sleep every now and then. As for my lack of reads, did you even look at my filter? I feel I am being quite seriously misrepresented here... It helps me imagine the option of you trying to cover the scumbuddy who has the role of acting as an overzealous townie. And when I say overzealous, I don't speak about the value of his posts, but of the sheer amount. ____ I didn't like BKE's post until I saw him mentioning the the lynched guy he used to justify his policy lynch discussion about being careful with newbs, that's enough for me as proof that his policy talk was in town's interest and not just some attempt to start a never ending policy discussion. I still cannot be sure of him being townie on the long term, but for now it's enough. If you asked me who I would vote for right now, then it would be either VE or acrofales. Problem with BKE isn't his policy suggestion, which he justified. I disagree with it, but that's neither here nor there. The problem with BKE is that he has completely ignored his own suggestion twice since then. Now I am not a big fan of casualman either, but if BKE wants to give noobs the benefit of the doubt, why is he flipping out and returning the vote immediately: not asking for clarification, but just saying "something as dumb as that can only be scum". Which is exactly what gets noobs lynched in the first place. BKE should know, he got himself lynched with a rather similar move in the noobie game we played (VIII or IX, can never remember numbers). Btw, I disagree on the reasoning. Something as dumb as casualman (and later drwiggles) have done is a dumbtell, not a scumtell. I am not sure what to make of it, which is why I have a bad feeling about the BKE bandwagon either way and am waiting for BKE, casualman and drwiggles to explain themselves. | ||
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Quote from the OP: Sword Swallower/Fire Breather/Contortionist/Freak/Juggler/Acrobat (Vanilla Townie): You are a Role Name! You're one of the many performers at the circus, but unfortunately you possess no extra powers besides your charms, you brain, and your vote. And then: On June 30 2012 14:16 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Warning to casualman for editing. Next person to edit a post will be modkilled. Also, please stop discussing role PMs. The OP clearly states: This is true for all roles. The fact that you want people to rehash information for you points to me to someone deliberately filling the thread with repetition and nonsense, which discourages people from reading it, which decreases their chance of finding scum. I am not going to repeat the multiple cases on BKE scattered throughout the thread. You can read the damned thread yourself, and click on BKE's filter (it is all of 1 page long) and find the offending posts in about 10 seconds flat. Your unwillingness to do so points to lazy town or noob scum. Your obstinateness is making me lean towards the latter. | ||
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On July 01 2012 00:48 Vivax wrote: My above last post directed at ShiaoPi's post. I would also advise town to wonder why acrofales made his first case against the guy suspecting the person he defended just before. My first case was on BM My second case was on BKE My third case is on you How hard is it to click on my filter and actually read it instead of posting drivel?! | ||
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Reading the thread and reading everybody's past games are two completely different things and you can expect the former, but not the latter from people in this game. @ET: s0lstice's post satisfies me with regards to his earlier promise to give his reads during the day. You agree? @VE: I'm onboard with lynching BM! Lets do it. I have my vote there already. @BKE: I am not very convinced by your defense. Scum make bad posts that they didn't expect would draw attention to them all the time. A post discussing policy is exactly the kind of harmless post scums make D1 all the time. You just got called out on it. I'm also unsure what you're saying about BM (and why you're quoting s0lstice's post in there... he says nothing about BM). Mind elaborating? | ||
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On July 01 2012 03:10 grush57 wrote: Hihi! Hi! Who do you want to lynch today? | ||
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On July 01 2012 03:45 EchelonTee wrote: Bke is a classic d1 lynch; hard to clearly read, an active poster with strange accusations and minor breaches in logic that show only slight scumminess, but a lot of people jump on anyways. his opening post was strange, but it's not nearly as conclusive as other opening scum posts have been in the past (zealos, macpo). I find his posting scummish, but not conclusive enough for a d1 lynch, and very low on info to boot. BM would be informative, mK would be accurate. Putting on my vote for mK. Hi adam. I'm not sure you're right about BKE. I prefer a BM lynch over BKE. I also liked your case on mK. In my experience the kenpachi rule is fairly accurate (seen it used once and it nailed scum). Other than that I'm not sure there's anything to recommend an mK lynch: he's basically a lurker. | ||
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Rearranging that post got it a bit mangled | ||
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On July 01 2012 05:24 s0Lstice wrote: Acrofales- No I don't expect you to read past games for 29 people. Wha? Seems to me that this is exactly the situation you'd use meta for. If you don't know the player, the more information you can get, the better off you are. I use meta differently (only talking about people whose playstyle I am unfamiliar with here): if I find something typical that could be a scum tell, but is townie for some people, I try to look at older games and figure out playstyle. The problem is that it takes a lot of effort and time to read other people's finished games and get a good read. What is generally easier to use meta for and far less prone to error is to meta people who you DO know. You have expectations from their town and scum play. This game has a few people I have experience playing with. For instance, I consider myself a decent judge of Mattchew if he ever starts playing the game (based on 3 or 4 games now that we've played together). You think Vivax is scummy here: There have been a handful of people you have been suspicious of. Vivax' meta is particularly easy to look up because he is new. You can get a good idea of how he plays with not a lot of time spent. Is meta just not your thing? It seems weird to me that you would so willingly pass up an opportunity to add clarity to your read. It feels like you are being aggressive just for the sake of looking aggressive. As I clarified above. Additionally, I actually did look up Vivax's games this afternoon, and saw that he had played 3 newbie games, of which1 was scum and 2 town (third I didn't look at). However, a quick glance was not enough to tell me much about his playstyle either way. I saw he got lynched early on as town in both his scum games, which tells me he is probably not very good at looking townie at least. Your defense of him seems to be indicating that I missed something in that glance. What makes Vivax's play townie? | ||
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Catching up on the thread now. | ||
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On July 01 2012 08:25 Bill Murray wrote: Acrofales FoS on BKX is fishy as fuck if BKX flips scum, will you all listen to me on acrofales? It's a JEEP tell for a FoS with a vote on someone else Acrofales did that, lets test BKX ##Unvote ##Vote: BKX He thinks I am scum (lets not forget the marvel of a case he made on me), but we should lynch BKE instead! Because I FoS'd BKE without voting for him, which is a clear sign of that if BKE is scum, then Acro is scum. I'm all for lynching BKE, he looks scummy. However, my vote only goes so far and BM looks like a better candidate: he is using a terrible excuse to hop on a bandwagon. He's not saying why BKE is scum. In fact, his reason for thinking BKE is scum is that I (scum in BM's eyes) FoS'd him (something scum clearly do). I know BM always uses bad reasoning, but this time I think it's scummy bad reasoning. Lets lynch him Regarding Katina. I feel Katina is a bit like Mattchew this game. Both are rather good players and neither have put any effort at all into playing. Both of them should be clearer reads when they start posting. Atm I'm null on Katina: she reads like someone who has put no effort at all into reading the thread, sheeped VE and went afk again. This could be scum, but could also be a lazy/busy townie who is putting no effort into the game and sheeps a veteran. Seems like a bad lynch candidate atm. mK is basically a lurker lynch with the addition of Kenpachi rule. Seems decent to me. In my opinion the lynch should be between mK, BKE or BM. There are other blips on my scumdar, but these three are topping the scumometer. Out of these three, BM is the scummiest, but if votes are needed for consolidation, either of the other 2 work for me. Other comments: @adam: I don't see what is scummy about that post by mandalor. I read it as being a lurker lynch policy unless we find someone who acts scummy (that was his point b) imho). The wording he uses is strange, but "someone doing scummy stuff at the start of D1" is generally a pretty decent way of finding scum. Ask Maju how well it works @kurumi: I am really tired of you trolling every game you play in. Yes, I could decipher your first two posts, but it took 3 times as long as it should've and putting that much effort into understanding one player is just not worth it. I still don't have a clue what the fuck you mean with bears in eastern russia. | ||
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On July 02 2012 00:22 VisceraEyes wrote: I prefer a BM lynch to BXE at this point. BXE I can believe is acting this way as town. BM I'm not so sure. ##Unvote: BXE ##Vote: BillMurray Skidoosh. Let's get it done. Glad to see you're putting your money where your mouth is. Lets lynch BM! | ||
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Here's some pointers: I am town. BM is scum. Look at our filters, then go vote. | ||
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On July 02 2012 01:49 layabout wrote: Current Votes: + Show Spoiler + (Top: most recent Bottom: least recent) VisceraEyes ##Vote: BillMurray austinmcc ##Vote mKmKmK Vivax ##Vote mKmKmK Kurumi ##vote mKmKmK EchelonTee ##vote mKmKmK Hyaach ##vote mKmKmK s0Lstice ##Vote: Katina Adam4167 ##Vote: Mandalor Mandalor ##vote: BroodKingEXE MajuGarzett ##Vote: NoSmurfHere Twelve ##vote: BroodKingEXE Bill Murray ##vote: BroodKingeXxe casualman ##Vote: casualman drwiggl3s ##Vote: BroodKingEXE ShiaoPi ##vote: BroodKingEXE rastaban ##vote mKmKmK BroodKingEXE ##Vote: casualman Acrofales ##vote BillMurray Mattchew ##vote casualman Katina ##Vote BroodKingEXE NoSmurfHere ##vote mKmKmK votecount: mKmKmK (7) austinmcc Vivax Kurumi EchelonTee Hyaach NoSmurfHere rastaban BroodkingEXE (6) Katina ShiaoPi drwiggl3s Bill Murray Twelve mandalor Casualman (3) Casualman BrodkingEXE Mattchew BillMurray (2) VisceraEyes Acrofales Mandalor (1) Adam4167 NoSmurfHere (1) MajuGarzett Katina (1) s0Lstice As a member of our great (circus) town it is very important that you put effort and time into your vote. It increases your chance of winning. It is expected of town. It is not very difficult for town. It is benfiacial for town. It is risky for mafia. The more opinions mafia give and the more stances mafia have to take, the more likely they are to give themselves away. Avoiding putting in time and effort in voting is beneficial to mafia. With that in mind, why on earth are VisceraEyes and Acrofales throwing away their votes. Both players are known for domineering and leading threads for better or worse and it is surprising that they are happy to cast votes that will be of little consequence. These players: + Show Spoiler + Katina NoSmurfHere Mattchew Acrofales Voted very early on and have not changed their votws. I am concerned that so many players are content to leave their votes like this when you consider the huge difference in the information available when they voted to the information available now. Casualman voted for himself. Either he is a townie that is playing to screw with us or he is mafia plaing to screw with us. We should kill Casualman. If we allow players to do that then we will be dealing with nonsense all game and once all of the active players are killed off our lurking brethren will see a bunch of rubbish get confused and lose. I still think we should kill Kurumi but he is at least half playing the game. ##Vote Casualman Casualman is quite clearly trolling. Whether he's town trolling or scum trolling: fucked if I know, but lets lynch scum, not trolls. As for your calling my vote on BM "wasted" and incriminating me for having it on him for a long time: I think he's scum. The initial read was not that strong, but his reaction was terrible and he has been acting scummy ever since. Why would I change my vote, except to consolidate in order to prevent something I think is a mislynch? This whole post of yours is giving me a bad feeling. You call me out for wasting my vote, yet throw your own on a trollread, who is probably not getting lynched. You afraid that our votes will gain traction and your scumbuddy gets lynched? | ||
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On July 02 2012 02:28 layabout wrote: You can't read BM. Ignore him or kill him. Don't pretend he is acting scummy. I've played 2 games before with BM. In holy roman we were town together. I read him as town and I was right. In DFM2 I was scum and he was town, so things were a bit different, but he did some things that clearly only made sense from a town perspective (and if I recall it was mainly scum pressure that kept him in focus). This game I have a scum read on him. Could I be wrong? Absolutely, BM has done some really scummy shit in both those games, but I had a town read on him regardless. Saying YOU can't read him is fine, but don't presume you speak for everybody. Kurumi is someone I cannot read at all (I couldn't read him in Space Station and I can't read him now. He posts dense, obscure gobbledygook). I have trouble reading Drazerk too, but I think I am onto something with BM this game. If you think BM is a bad lynch say so and get your own vote on someone who is actually a good lynch: mK for instance. Casualman is a cop-out, who has a coinflip chance of being scum and regardless of the flip we learn nothing. mK is also bad from an information point of view, but at least he's scummy. BM has the advantage of being scummy AND giving us info! | ||
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+ Show Spoiler [casualman is town] + On June 30 2012 23:31 layabout wrote: casual is probably town because he broke the rules. His vote make me sick to my stomach. He has some explaining to do. Hyaach need to stop sitting on his ass waiting for someone else to make a case and do something. I don't get this: I cannot give a judgement worth anything about him at this time. This post indicates a slight town read on casualman. Yet he is now ready to lynch him. It also voices slight suspicion of Hyaach, yet he never follows up on it. Hyaach has done very little since layabout made this post, yet layabout never says anything about it. + Show Spoiler [casualman is retarded] + On July 01 2012 06:28 layabout wrote: He can't have done that. That would be retarded. I'll say it again: we don't lynch retards, we lynch scum. You want retards dead? Do them the favour of shooting them in the face rather than wasting lynches on it. Then comes his vote on casualman and accusing me of throwing my vote away. In short: 1. wants to lynch retards he has a slight scumread on 2. doesn't follow up pressure. 3. accuses people of throwing away their votes, then does the same. In closing: yes, layabout, I'm starting to think you're scum. Thank you for making me take another look at your filter! | ||
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The relevant quote from Ver: On March 18 2011 18:02 Ver wrote: Lastly, you will notice that almost every one of my posts was made with 100% conviction. That was a deliberate act. The only people I was absolutely 100% certain on were Chaoser, LD, and cubedin (lategame) and for each one I said that. The most dangerous person for the mafia to face (and the town as well actually) is the one who is absolutely convinced of themselves and will stop at nothing to get their target lynched. Mafia absolutely delight to see townies who aren't sure of themselves. First of all, someone who can't convince themselves can't convince others, and secondly, it's easier for the mafia to dissuade that person out of their attacks if they manage to hit mafia. I remember in Salem Doctor H had snagged Jimbosilvers and Radfield, but he made the fatal mistake of showing doubt of his own convictions, and the mafia whispered eagerly in glee and redoubled their efforts to save themselves. Had he showed complete belief in his targets, the mafia were much more inclined to simply give up. I think that happened in this game as well. LSB, Foolishness, and myself were all acting in such a certainty of our beliefs and the mafia simply never had the heart to take us on. So as soon as we hit red, that was one mafia down. Obviously that had an enormous effect on the game, because there was not one single lynch where the mafia team mobilized their forces to take us on in the thread and in the voting booth at once. Instead every single time they hurriedly stepped to the side and said 'please, go right ahead and kill my buddy good sir.' Pretty awesome right? This, combined with my indecisiveness in Bastard 2 made me want to change up my play a bit. If you really want the truth? Sure, my read might be wrong. But I think he's scum and want him dead. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler [town reads on BM from Holy Roman] + On May 10 2012 20:43 Acrofales wrote: Huh? He claimed Carolus, hydra with Sandro... seemed pretty damned obvious to me. @BM: your wall made some sense, but claiming your meta is transparent is not true. You make a bad emperor/empress candidate because your playstyle is haphazard. No offense, but your reads, posts, and actions, are ALL over the place as town, allowing a scum BM to get away easily. My play is highly structured and logical, meaning that unless you think I am another Ace, my play should be an open book. This makes me prone to get shot rather early as town, but that risk is present regardless of whether I am emperor or not (see SSM if you want an example of a completely unimportant Acro to get shot in the face). That said, I kinda like your wall with reads. On May 10 2012 22:32 Acrofales wrote: The reason I want to hold off on Bluelightz is that he (and BM too) always are easy targets for mafia to push a mislynch on. In this game he actually looks less scummy than DFM2 and another game I read (can't remember which), in which he was town. His all-over-the-map voting for emperor/empress seems more like an indecisive townie than scum, which is kinda what I expect from Bluelightz. I will also go for my own reads, rather than Syllo's "feelings". If Syllo has anything more conclusive I'd love to hear it, but as it is I think Bluelightz gets the benefit of the doubt. Also, posting some reads is a good idea. I personally am not confident in any scum reads (also not Jitsu). So will refrain from posting any. The "lynch a random inactive smurf" call is kinda obvious. On May 12 2012 04:49 Acrofales wrote: Part of it is the "it's too fucking stupid to be scum" feeling that is going off in my mind. I can't think of a proper scum motivation for the chat exchange. Granted, I can't think of a proper town motivation for the chat exchange either, but scum tends to be a LOT more careful than town in that sorta thing. A roleclaim is planned and thought through. This does NOT look planned, it looks like a giant DERP. Secondly, BM came to the thread yelling about P-Body bluefishing. After the exchange P-Body posted there can be no doubt that if there was ANYBODY bluefishing in that exchange, it was BM. Why would BM bring that to the thread, if he was SCUM? That is my main reason for thinking BM is town in this. I will believe he has a PR. It may, however, be village idiot. The cop claim seems dodgy, but that is the only dodgy thing in this entire exchange and once again, scum would take one look at the role list and see there are already 2 cops. Why would they plan another cop claim when it is unlikely to be believed. It doesn't look planned, it looks panicked. Truthful or not, it still looks townie. And there's a few more where that came from. | ||
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Lets not lynch Italkians they already hurt enough after toay. HI MARV! Want to lynch BN? | ||
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The choice between mK and foxtrotter is still pretty null in my book. Marvellosity made a case against foxtrotter for being a hypocrit. ET made a case against mK for kenpachi rule. Other than these two things both were lurkers. I ended up sheeping marvellosity because I liked his case a bit more. Turns out that was wrong. + Show Spoiler [votecount] + mKmKmK - 6 rastaban Kurumi Vivax austinmcc Foxtrotter grush57 BroodKingEXE - 6 Katina ShiaoPi drwiggl3s Bill Murray Mandalor layabout casualman - 2 BroodKingEXE casualman Foxtrotter - 11 Marvellosity Mattchew Acrofales EchelonTee s0Lstice Hyaach VisceraEyes MajuGarzett NoSmurfHere Twelve ghost_403 Mandalor - 1 Adam4167 No vote: mKmKmK There's a few things I want to draw from the votecount. The first is that mK never even showed up to vote, so he should get modkilled or replaced. I don't think it's worth discussing him until one of those things happens. Inactives are null, although I have a meta-argument that if the host puts in a lot of work to find a replacement for an inactive, he is probably scum. It has worked in Holy Roman (it took Caller/Toad/blubb a lot of effort to replace Vaderseven; he was scum) and in Game of Thrones (it took Curu a LOT of effort to replace Gumshoe; also was scum). 2 is a pretty shitty sample size for statistics, but it's worth remembering. The second is that I was kinda expecting casualman to switch his vote at some point during the day, but he never did, not even when the lynch was equally balanced between 3 targets. That goes beyond the earlier simple trolling to being full-blown retarded. If someone would do us the favour of shooting him tonight so we don't have to worry about him tomorrow, that'd be great. grush: I asked you earlier who you wanted to lynch. I am unsatisfied with: + Show Spoiler [suspicious of casualman] + On July 02 2012 01:57 grush57 wrote: I have to agree. Atleast BM isn't going full retard like casualman. Casualman doesn't want to play and is just being plain stupid. Plus, he is by far playing the most scummiest so far. + Show Spoiler [calls BKE scum] + Into voting for mK with no prior reasoning. Now given the pre-game banter you seem to be one of those players who looks scummy in all his games, regardless of actual alignment (like bluelightz and Zealos). I know you looked scummy in Space Station and were town, because I blew you up for looking scummy (or rather, placed a bomb on you and scum shot me). However, this looks terrible. I want to know what the rest of the thread thinks of this. It's night, so plenty of time to discuss. Vivax: I like you for a D2 lynch too. Every single case you've made has been some kind of wonky connection-based case with terrible premises. I'm not sure what s0lstice sees in you that's townie, but I'm not getting it. 1. You are not reading the thread properly despite being told multiple times by multiple people (myself, VE and marvellosity so far) to read the thread. 2. You are throwing suspicion around on people without giving a real reason (myself, VE, Shiao and marvellosity). While you built a dodgy connection case on VE and me based on the premise that BM is town (can we please lynch and/or shoot BM?!), your "suspicion" of marvellosity is that he is shutting down discussion at a time he was GENERATING discussion. You also don't like ShiaoPi for some unspecified reasons. You are therefore casting suspicion without real reason on:
I'd be happy to look into any of the 3 players if you tell me what you think is scummy, but saying "you're shutting down discussion when he isn't" or "I don't like your posts" is trying to take away momentum from town players and creating a bad atmosphere. That is scum agenda point number 1. 3. Your scumhunting is limited to making connection cases. The only case that isn't a connection case is suggesting grush for a lurker lynch. I say above what I think about grush. However, it's a pretty damned easy case to make. It was also at a time to create MORE chaos in a thread that was consolidating on a lynch (however badly that turned out). Adding candidates 1 hour before the deadline is a terrible idea unless someone suddenly stands out as obvious scum. Grush didn't do that, it was just another lurker to be added to the list. Why? To make the votecount even more dispersed and less useful than it is now? For somoene who likes connection cases this is fucking weird: the strongest connnections are votes. 4. Your voting behaviour. You said Mandalor was scum. I haven't even seen you give a good reason why on that one either, but regardless of that, somehow your ninjavote ended up on mK: On July 01 2012 21:45 Vivax wrote: ##unvote ##Vote mKmKmK Note the timestamp: 12 hours before the deadline. A look in his filter gives us this post: + Show Spoiler [Vivax defending mK] + On July 01 2012 21:42 Vivax wrote: Ok, ET. Looks like I'll have to do the talk for you: "Why the hell is Vivax using that argument when I've already posted 2 others for a scum mK being an option?Does he want to say that the policy is the only reason I'm doing that?" 1. The scum claim you adressed. I guess with it you meant that he says VE used good arguments against BKE, but then considers him to be scummy for one line of text than really says nothing about VE's alignment. Then he suspects kurumi for 'mafiavibes', that's all. I agree that his arguments are terrible and contain zero information. From this point of view he's actually scummy or bad townie. 2. His low activity after that post I don't know how experienced it is, but that behavior would also fit a blue role. That would also be the argument made by you I consider to not be decisive, yet you treat this as a strong argument against him. 3. His wishywashy post regarding the VT roleclaim. A blue role could react like that, too. ___________________________________________ I'm kind of changing my opinion regarding him after writing this. Mainly because of point 1 .I still think that point 2 and 3 wouldn't be enough for me to vote for him. But 1 is a good argument to vote for him. Sorry if I don't have as much faith in the kenpachi rule as you do, but I didn't see it successfully in action through multiple games, and I also see the downsides. So, you are unconvinced by ET's case on mK, there is absolutely NO reason to consolidate votes, yet 3 minutes later you ninjavote for mK's death. I have to say, I don't understand this move from a scum PoV either, but I understand it LESS from a town PoV: how do you defend a guy and then vote for him 3 minutes later. Best fitting explanation I can think of: you're noob scum naïvely bussing your teammate and thinking you can salvage it with some chaos and a D2 BKE lynch (he made a post trying to connect mK and BKE 10 minutes after his vote). In closing, you're scum | ||
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Also, ET is making sense and people should listen to him. ET, what do you think of Vivax and layabout? | ||
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1. Mattchew wasn't the driving factor behind the Fox lynch 2. Mattchew is a good player. If he's scum, there will be scum on his list and a priori assuming everybody is town is bullshit. 3. Assuming there's scum motives for moving off BKE ignores most of what happened in D1. BKE was starting to post coherently. The case against him is based on his very early actions and his lack of scumhunting. I think we should give him a chance to rectify that second and see what he comes up with. In general, connection cases are TERRIBLE until you flip a scum and can actually connect to a confirmed scum. ET was pointing this out, therefore he was making sense. Stopping town from wifom'ing themselves in circles is NOT bad play. | ||
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On July 02 2012 18:20 EchelonTee wrote: Funny that you mention layabout, because I thought that it was odd that he said "move foxtrot up the kill list", but was completely AWOL for the switch. It seems like something that he would've liked to get moving if he believed foxtrot to be scum, since it was clear BKE was not going to be lynched. Need to do a re-read of him tomorrow. He feels odd, but layabout often posts sort of scummy (citation, TL LII jubjub). Vivax is more curious; while I disagree with a lot of his logic, I still have him in the null category because a lot of his reactions can be explained from a townie perspective. I'm actually sleeping. Acro, I really hope your buddying is coming from a good place because I could really use it atm. Tell me what you think of s0Lstice? I am cautiously leaning town on him. He made some good contributions in D1. Also On July 02 2012 08:30 s0Lstice wrote: @marv--Yea I did that already. I'm not voting for someone until I read their shit myself, recently. I'm not sure that one post makes him more scummy than mK, but it certainly doesn't look great. Our problem if we want to switch is there are 7 votes on BKE right now. If those people aren't here to switch, it's possible he will be the guy if we get off mK. That I don't like at all. indicates a pro-active attitude in scumhunting, which I like. Why you asking me for my townreads at night? | ||
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At the time the Fox lynch was proposed mK was set to be lynched, at 10 votes to 7. What reason does a scum Mattchew or Marvellosity have to push forward another townie to be sacrificed? It actually increased the chances of scumbuddy BKE getting lynched. This makes NO SENSE. When you can explain how your reasoning works, I may be willing to listen to you. | ||
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On July 02 2012 18:42 drwiggl3s wrote: I'd agree if I wasn't so sure that this thread will be spammed up with mafia posting about their "reads" and "leans" and etc. while ignoring the main point being made here. I'll have to settle in for the night and return to this in the morning. If your town, read what was said here. Lol. Reverse wifom! Scum is known to be quiet during the night. So to switch it up, they will be active and promote discussion by scumhunting during the night, just so town gets confused and thinks scum is town and town is scum! /facepalm. No talking during the night is a bad idea. Not giving town reads during the night is generally a good idea (one that I have quite rigorously broken already). However, posting ass-backwards wifom is never a good idea, night OR day. | ||
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On July 02 2012 18:49 Vivax wrote: Poor poor acrofales. Posting such a huge case and then he gets zero attention for it I'll give you some: Get your things straight, thinking I'd be mafia is ridiculous. Let's string up people for the FT mislynch.I told you the cases against him were bullshit and more of a policy lynch than anything else. That said, marv, I don't see you drawing conclusions after his death, but you criticisized mine before his death for being premature. You contribute zero to town except for causing bandwagons, and your posts are numerous, but not helpful. I'll anticipate what I'm gonna do day2. ##Vote marvellosity Don't worry, I'll push it when people start waking up. DrWiggl3s burying it in spam is not making you look any better either. | ||
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On July 02 2012 18:55 Mandalor wrote: I think you're talking to vivax, but I'm gonna answer this for myself: Possible modkill of mK. If mK is town and inactive, there's a chance he will be modkilled and mafia could get two kills in pretty much one day by swaying the public opinion to another townie. Was talking to wiggl3s, but your answer is fine. Hadn't thought of that. It sounds like a hell of a lot of effort (and risk) to put into getting an extra townie killed. At least it's plausible tho. Now, other than the late addition of a townie to Mattchew's list of death, mind making a case that isn't connection-based with BKE until we, you know, flip BKE as scum? | ||
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On July 02 2012 18:57 Vivax wrote: Ok, kingdede. Why don't you keep pushing your BM policy lynch like day 1? You seem to have a lot of backup from people like VE. I'm still hoping someone will shoot BM tonight. Otherwise I will be very happy with a BM lynch tomorrow too! | ||
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On July 02 2012 02:59 Acrofales wrote: I had a "leaning town" in my notes for you, but upon revising I'm not sure why. Maybe because of your first post. However, I just went through your filter and I don't get it. + Show Spoiler [casualman is town] + On June 30 2012 23:31 layabout wrote: casual is probably town because he broke the rules. His vote make me sick to my stomach. He has some explaining to do. Hyaach need to stop sitting on his ass waiting for someone else to make a case and do something. I don't get this: I cannot give a judgement worth anything about him at this time. This post indicates a slight town read on casualman. Yet he is now ready to lynch him. It also voices slight suspicion of Hyaach, yet he never follows up on it. Hyaach has done very little since layabout made this post, yet layabout never says anything about it. + Show Spoiler [casualman is retarded] + On July 01 2012 06:28 layabout wrote: He can't have done that. That would be retarded. I'll say it again: we don't lynch retards, we lynch scum. You want retards dead? Do them the favour of shooting them in the face rather than wasting lynches on it. Then comes his vote on casualman and accusing me of throwing my vote away. In short: 1. wants to lynch retards he has a slight scumread on 2. doesn't follow up pressure. 3. accuses people of throwing away their votes, then does the same. In closing: yes, layabout, I'm starting to think you're scum. Thank you for making me take another look at your filter! Do you still think BKE is scum? What is your opinion on drwiggles and the general goings on tonight? | ||
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On July 03 2012 01:06 marvellosity wrote: Acro, Matt, whoever - thoughts on wiggles please, especially in light of austin's recent posts Wiggl3s has angered me with terrible logic. It is BM or Zentor level bad. That makes it hard to see the motive behind his posting. His aggressive activity when pushing and arguing with ET reminds me of town Zentor. His shitting up the thread to an amazing degree makes me lean scum. austinmcc's analysis of his D1 behaviour seems to hit the mark as far as I'm concerned. I also have a problem combining the lurk all through D1 with frenetic activity after the lynch. | ||
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I'll talk about the lynch candidates when I have read the end of the night too (like... 5 pages. What happened there?) in a second. Some things in my earlier Vivax case no longer line up, so have to look that over. Katina has been flying largely under my radar, so I'll have to reread her filter. A link to the case wyould be grand. Also have to take another look at BKE. Has grush done anything other than ask how the ringleader bowed post-death? | ||
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ghost_403 is suspicious of ET. I want to see his case, as I have a slight town read on ET, based largely on how he was arguing in favour of sanity with wiggl3s. Now that wiggl3s flipped town I'm not sure whether that was a scum shitting up the thread by getting into a dumb argument or two townies going at it. Ghost, why do you think ET is scum? At least if ghost is posting I might be able to whipe out the "null" read next to his name. Ghost's case on ET seems decent. Ghost: what do you make of ET's behaviour at night? I was largely null until his argument with wiggl3s. Bandwagoning onto Fox instead of mK is pretty null to me. I jumped on from the BM lynch which was going nowhere and picked Fox mainly based on marv being active and pushing it. They were both lurker lynches (and turns out the kenpachi rule fails just as badly on mK as the hipocrisy argument did for the fox lynch). Scum has no reason to switch, but no reason to stay either. Ghost: I want your opinion on ET's night fight with wiggl3s. BM's flip and your claiming to shoot him makes me think you're town, so lets have your opinion and more activity in the thread. NoSmurf is bugs? I kinda saw that one coming. Was unsure between bugs and palmar, but clearly not a "not a smurf" So now that bugs is out, he gives a meta read on Katina. I don't know about the meta read, but what the hell was this: On July 03 2012 08:40 Katina wrote: Bright side: We will have a direction and know who to lynch when day comes. Whoever dies tonight, we need to go back and look through their filter. This is utter drivel filler. She clearly read the thread to get to Twelve's nonsense fear of dying (still not sure whether that's a paranoid useless townie, or scum theatrics, but lets talk about Katina). She didn't touch any of the interesting topics of the thread: mainly what to think of drwiggl3s or have a chat with the lonely ghost_403, but posted this nonsense instead. I'd like to hear from other people with some experience playing with her, but this set alarmbells off in my head after Katina had been flying largely under the radar. Big surprise here, VE thinks Bugs is scum. Who'd've thunk that would happen after bugs claims?! Then VE backs down from the read. Mind at least telling us WHY you thought bugs was scum, but later you didn't anymore? You don't need to go all crazy townie spammer on us, just a quick explanation of why bugs was scummy and then looked townie. You and he have a pretty long history and, despite going nuts in the MTG game, I think it's usually interesting to see what you two have to say about each other. BKE going at ghost pretty hard. I somewhat agree on the case. Later edit: hrmmm, going after the guy who shot BM. On the other hand, why would a scum BKE do this? Maybe just bad luck on picking the vigi to make a case on? Will take another look at BKE, Vivax, Katina and ET and post my thoughts during the day. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler [full post] + On July 02 2012 17:41 Acrofales wrote: Marvellosity, why you no lead me to scum? I disagree with drwiggl3s. He seems to be implying that everybody should've voted for BKE, because the lynch was lead off him by scum. Clearly a possibility, but as the day went on I was also getting townier vibes about BKE, so it could just be townies realizing that lynching BKE was a bad idea when push came to shove. The choice between mK and foxtrotter is still pretty null in my book. Marvellosity made a case against foxtrotter for being a hypocrit. ET made a case against mK for kenpachi rule. Other than these two things both were lurkers. I ended up sheeping marvellosity because I liked his case a bit more. Turns out that was wrong. + Show Spoiler [votecount] + mKmKmK - 6 rastaban Kurumi Vivax austinmcc Foxtrotter grush57 BroodKingEXE - 6 Katina ShiaoPi drwiggl3s Bill Murray Mandalor layabout casualman - 2 BroodKingEXE casualman Foxtrotter - 11 Marvellosity Mattchew Acrofales EchelonTee s0Lstice Hyaach VisceraEyes MajuGarzett NoSmurfHere Twelve ghost_403 Mandalor - 1 Adam4167 No vote: mKmKmK There's a few things I want to draw from the votecount. The first is that mK never even showed up to vote, so he should get modkilled or replaced. I don't think it's worth discussing him until one of those things happens. Inactives are null, although I have a meta-argument that if the host puts in a lot of work to find a replacement for an inactive, he is probably scum. It has worked in Holy Roman (it took Caller/Toad/blubb a lot of effort to replace Vaderseven; he was scum) and in Game of Thrones (it took Curu a LOT of effort to replace Gumshoe; also was scum). 2 is a pretty shitty sample size for statistics, but it's worth remembering. The second is that I was kinda expecting casualman to switch his vote at some point during the day, but he never did, not even when the lynch was equally balanced between 3 targets. That goes beyond the earlier simple trolling to being full-blown retarded. If someone would do us the favour of shooting him tonight so we don't have to worry about him tomorrow, that'd be great. grush: I asked you earlier who you wanted to lynch. I am unsatisfied with: + Show Spoiler [suspicious of casualman] + On July 02 2012 01:57 grush57 wrote: I have to agree. Atleast BM isn't going full retard like casualman. Casualman doesn't want to play and is just being plain stupid. Plus, he is by far playing the most scummiest so far. + Show Spoiler [calls BKE scum] + Into voting for mK with no prior reasoning. Now given the pre-game banter you seem to be one of those players who looks scummy in all his games, regardless of actual alignment (like bluelightz and Zealos). I know you looked scummy in Space Station and were town, because I blew you up for looking scummy (or rather, placed a bomb on you and scum shot me). However, this looks terrible. I want to know what the rest of the thread thinks of this. It's night, so plenty of time to discuss. Vivax: I like you for a D2 lynch too. Every single case you've made has been some kind of wonky connection-based case with terrible premises. I'm not sure what s0lstice sees in you that's townie, but I'm not getting it. 1. You are not reading the thread properly despite being told multiple times by multiple people (myself, VE and marvellosity so far) to read the thread. 2. You are throwing suspicion around on people without giving a real reason (myself, VE, Shiao and marvellosity). While you built a dodgy connection case on VE and me based on the premise that BM is town (can we please lynch and/or shoot BM?!), your "suspicion" of marvellosity is that he is shutting down discussion at a time he was GENERATING discussion. You also don't like ShiaoPi for some unspecified reasons. You are therefore casting suspicion without real reason on:
I'd be happy to look into any of the 3 players if you tell me what you think is scummy, but saying "you're shutting down discussion when he isn't" or "I don't like your posts" is trying to take away momentum from town players and creating a bad atmosphere. That is scum agenda point number 1. 3. Your scumhunting is limited to making connection cases. The only case that isn't a connection case is suggesting grush for a lurker lynch. I say above what I think about grush. However, it's a pretty damned easy case to make. It was also at a time to create MORE chaos in a thread that was consolidating on a lynch (however badly that turned out). Adding candidates 1 hour before the deadline is a terrible idea unless someone suddenly stands out as obvious scum. Grush didn't do that, it was just another lurker to be added to the list. Why? To make the votecount even more dispersed and less useful than it is now? For somoene who likes connection cases this is fucking weird: the strongest connnections are votes. 4. Your voting behaviour. You said Mandalor was scum. I haven't even seen you give a good reason why on that one either, but regardless of that, somehow your ninjavote ended up on mK: Note the timestamp: 12 hours before the deadline. A look in his filter gives us this post: + Show Spoiler [Vivax defending mK] + On July 01 2012 21:42 Vivax wrote: Ok, ET. Looks like I'll have to do the talk for you: "Why the hell is Vivax using that argument when I've already posted 2 others for a scum mK being an option?Does he want to say that the policy is the only reason I'm doing that?" 1. The scum claim you adressed. I guess with it you meant that he says VE used good arguments against BKE, but then considers him to be scummy for one line of text than really says nothing about VE's alignment. Then he suspects kurumi for 'mafiavibes', that's all. I agree that his arguments are terrible and contain zero information. From this point of view he's actually scummy or bad townie. 2. His low activity after that post I don't know how experienced it is, but that behavior would also fit a blue role. That would also be the argument made by you I consider to not be decisive, yet you treat this as a strong argument against him. 3. His wishywashy post regarding the VT roleclaim. A blue role could react like that, too. ___________________________________________ I'm kind of changing my opinion regarding him after writing this. Mainly because of point 1 .I still think that point 2 and 3 wouldn't be enough for me to vote for him. But 1 is a good argument to vote for him. Sorry if I don't have as much faith in the kenpachi rule as you do, but I didn't see it successfully in action through multiple games, and I also see the downsides. So, you are unconvinced by ET's case on mK, there is absolutely NO reason to consolidate votes, yet 3 minutes later you ninjavote for mK's death. I have to say, I don't understand this move from a scum PoV either, but I understand it LESS from a town PoV: how do you defend a guy and then vote for him 3 minutes later. Best fitting explanation I can think of: you're noob scum naïvely bussing your teammate and thinking you can salvage it with some chaos and a D2 BKE lynch (he made a post trying to connect mK and BKE 10 minutes after his vote). In closing, you're scum Most of that still stands. However, the last part is clearly not true. 4. Your voting behaviour. You said Mandalor was scum. I haven't even seen you give a good reason why on that one either, but regardless of that, somehow your ninjavote ended up on mK: Note the timestamp: 12 hours before the deadline. A look in his filter gives us this post: + Show Spoiler [Vivax defending mK] + On July 01 2012 21:42 Vivax wrote: Ok, ET. Looks like I'll have to do the talk for you: "Why the hell is Vivax using that argument when I've already posted 2 others for a scum mK being an option?Does he want to say that the policy is the only reason I'm doing that?" 1. The scum claim you adressed. I guess with it you meant that he says VE used good arguments against BKE, but then considers him to be scummy for one line of text than really says nothing about VE's alignment. Then he suspects kurumi for 'mafiavibes', that's all. I agree that his arguments are terrible and contain zero information. From this point of view he's actually scummy or bad townie. 2. His low activity after that post I don't know how experienced it is, but that behavior would also fit a blue role. That would also be the argument made by you I consider to not be decisive, yet you treat this as a strong argument against him. 3. His wishywashy post regarding the VT roleclaim. A blue role could react like that, too. ___________________________________________ I'm kind of changing my opinion regarding him after writing this. Mainly because of point 1 .I still think that point 2 and 3 wouldn't be enough for me to vote for him. But 1 is a good argument to vote for him. Sorry if I don't have as much faith in the kenpachi rule as you do, but I didn't see it successfully in action through multiple games, and I also see the downsides. So, you are unconvinced by ET's case on mK, there is absolutely NO reason to consolidate votes, yet 3 minutes later you ninjavote for mK's death. I have to say, I don't understand this move from a scum PoV either, but I understand it LESS from a town PoV: how do you defend a guy and then vote for him 3 minutes later. Best fitting explanation I can think of: you're noob scum naïvely bussing your teammate and thinking you can salvage it with some chaos and a D2 BKE lynch (he made a post trying to connect mK and BKE 10 minutes after his vote). Vivax, I am trying to puzzle out how this works from scum OR town. We now know mK is town. I cannot think of an explanation for how your vote ended up on him after defending him, regardless of your alignment. I want you to explain your thought process here to me, because the same happened slightly later again. + Show Spoiler [Vivax pre-votes marv] + On July 02 2012 18:49 Vivax wrote: Poor poor acrofales. Posting such a huge case and then he gets zero attention for it I'll give you some: Get your things straight, thinking I'd be mafia is ridiculous. Let's string up people for the FT mislynch.I told you the cases against him were bullshit and more of a policy lynch than anything else. That said, marv, I don't see you drawing conclusions after his death, but you criticisized mine before his death for being premature. You contribute zero to town except for causing bandwagons, and your posts are numerous, but not helpful. I'll anticipate what I'm gonna do day2. ##Vote marvellosity Marv dies at the daypost and flips town. Now why would a scum Vivax bother with such a post and then shoot Marv in the face? Unless Marv was shot by some utterly insane vigi (I had him fairly clearly town in my spreadsheet), but then the NKs don't add up. Seems to me Marv was shot by scum (makes perfect sense, as an active townie-looking player with a good reputation), so how does a scum-Vivax make a case on Marv and then shoot him. These two actions don't make sense. The first one from either scum or town point of view, the second one from a scum point of view (from a town point of view it's just a really bad read). These make me unsure of Vivax as scum. However, the rest of the case still points to a scummy Vivax. Given Katina and Hyaach's behaviour (thanks for pointing that one out, also flew under my radar), I'm going to give Vivax the benefit of the doubt for now. @Vivax: I still want a better answer on the case than "lol, a stupid townie is burying your case under a pile of spam". I'm still not sure you're scum. | ||
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On July 03 2012 22:06 Hyaach wrote: EBWOP ShaoPi, you have no right to be calling me to make cases btw, your filter are all easy to make post, fluffs and general post asking for response. You sound like a scum Maju so far. All question no stance. Don't shoot the messenger. I agree with his assessment of you. Still reading filters, but you're definitely a candidate for lynching. | ||
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On July 02 2012 07:30 Katina wrote: I don't like the mkmk lynch. I think that it happened all too easily. I don't think he's scummy enough to feel comfortable to lynch D1. There are other good candidates we should be focusing on like BKE or casualman. The general rule with BM is if he is causing chaos in the thread than he's town. So far he swearing and yelling at people and calling people out on their crap. There's more reason to think BM is town than Mafia. It reminds me of when people kept killing VE because he's VE. I would sooner lynch BKE or casualman than BM. Defense of BM. Of course, plenty of people defended BM and not all of them can be scum, but I'd be willing to bet a couple of them are. Katina fits the bill. WTF posts: On July 01 2012 09:36 Katina wrote: Because trends are trendy! So far you have accused mkmk of being scum and defending BKE. What are your reasonings to thinking that BKE is town? Do you have any other reads? Trendy trends are trendy??? This is not an explanation for wanting to lynch BKE, it's nonsense. On July 03 2012 08:40 Katina wrote: Bright side: We will have a direction and know who to lynch when day comes. Whoever dies tonight, we need to go back and look through their filter. I already said what I thought of this post. There is a scummy whiff about her. Lynching her seems like a good plan for D2. VE: what feels wrong about a Katina lynch to you? | ||
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On July 03 2012 22:24 Hyaach wrote: my list Mattchew Katina ShaoPi KtheZ KK done. ... Thank you for your meaningless list after a full cycle of lurking. ##vote Hyaach | ||
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##unvote This is too fucking stupid to be scum. KtheZ was replaced by Marv and IS ALREADY DEAD. | ||
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On July 03 2012 23:25 Mattchew wrote: she's playing more like here (jubjub mafia) then here (MTG Mafia) Hrmmm, I disagree. I don't know when she started making decent sensible cases and pushing her reads in Jubjub, but she has not done that yet here. I guess the frivolous nonsense is more like jubjub than like MTG, but I don't get the feeling she's putting effort into scumhunting this game (see her D1 reason, and later defense of her BKE vote), whereas she was clearly doing that in jubjub. ##vote katina | ||
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On July 03 2012 23:45 Mattchew wrote: I just gave you her entire filter from both games, and you refuse to read it? I read them both. That's what I came away with. | ||
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On July 04 2012 02:33 VisceraEyes wrote: Acro you didn't mention my post on Vivax at all. We're talking about Vivax, right? Because I asked about him and I posted about him? Why not mention my post about him on the matter? I expected NSH to ignore me, but you?! My sadness...is complete. Why did I need to mention your case? I read it, it made sense. Vivax has been doing some really completely illogical stuff. But s0lstice said he's really playing into his town meta. s0lstice flipped town, so it clearly wasn't scum defending each other. I'm also still unsure how the nightly case on marvellosity fits into a scumplay where you shoot him. Maybe the scumteam is not playing together nicely or something, but it just feels weird. He is using terrible logic and I am having a hard time deciding whether it's scum logic or Zentor logic. I think the lynch should be between Vivax and Katina. Hyaach and BKE are possible options too. I have the feeling that BKE is starting to play, though. I like the last page of his filter a helluvalot more than the first 2 pages. Hyaach is useless. His list was terrible, but it was so laughably terrible that he must have balls of steel to post such a list as scum. I have seen his scum play in Bastard 2 and there he flew under the radar until he came under pressure. Here he posted that terrible list once under pressure. It's hard to make that match in my mind. Someone asked about Twelve. I will look at him now. | ||
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On July 04 2012 05:13 Kurumi wrote: I have some classified information, but I shall not share it because it could be manipulated. Charlie Romeo Utah Mike Bravo This is nighthawk. The falcon has captured the sparrow. You mean this kind of classified? | ||
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On July 02 2012 04:17 Mattchew wrote: Mattchew's People that need to die and why list 2. Twelve Blatant contradiction in his first posts. Says he is all for Band wagon hatred, then jumps on the 2 bandwagons forming at that time (Kurumi and BKexe) + Show Spoiler + On June 30 2012 15:31 Twelve wrote: My initial thoughts are to be suspicious of Kurumi. He takes three posts to say very little, seeming to want to contribute without actually offering anything. I also agree that BroodKingEXE is suspicious for the same reasons, a long ranting post on a topic that he didn't seemed concerned about before the game started. I'm going to read the thread a bit more... just my initial thoughts. Follow this with his next 2 posts, the first with quite possibly the worst reasoning for a vote ever (read completely forced reasoning to try and continue a bandwagon), and then a post trying to be cutesy and buddying with the thread saying "don't take it personally" yuck. + Show Spoiler + On July 01 2012 08:24 Twelve wrote: This reads as scum to me. Reorganizing public information and posting it as a friendly town helping message, even though in reality it offers very little information. I hear "Hey guys, scum would never post a vote count where they are losing! Clearly BKE just has the town's best interests at heart!" On a side note though, what reasons would there be for casualman to vote for himself if he were town? On July 01 2012 17:12 Twelve wrote: + Show Spoiler + On July 01 2012 16:07 BroodKingEXE wrote: Are you going to ninja vote me for posting a votecount? You got to be kidding me, own up to your vote and post it in the thread dude. Or are you a scum trying to jump the wagon unnoticed? Not sure that ninja voting is against the rules, but just so we can stay friends: ##vote: BKX I made my case against you, not really trying to hide anything. The current "bandwagon" against you is merely logical, nothing personal ^^ The #1 issue I have with these two reads that I can't seem to get over in my head is where Twelve calls out casualman. I can't tell if this is an act of distancing (which on day 1 would be pretty bold if they are both actually newb scum) or if they are opposite alignments.. I would like to hear opinions on this. I don't know why Mattchew is making connection cases based on not-yet-flipped people, but of the two I think Twelve is more likely to flip scum and I think this case sums up his D1 behaviour. Twelve's defense consists mainly of "it was a joke" and some discussion about what a bandwagon is, which seemed okay when I hadn't read his filter and only saw the case in a list of scum. Now I'm no longer convinced. + Show Spoiler [Twelve's defense] + On July 02 2012 04:55 Twelve wrote: @Mattchew haha where to start... My first post that you quote was from before the game even started, so it probably shouldn't be taken to seriously. I simply don't know anyone here and was trying to start a conversation. The fact that you see a contradiction is also puzzling I can sort of see how it could be misinterpreted that I was saying "I am all for the hatred of bandwagons" but thats not what I was saying. In fact I was saying the opposite, I was asking to be clued in so I could join a bandwagon, but this was largely a joke. Suffice to say, anything I said before the game officially started probably shouldn't concern town too much. I do take issue with your use of the word band wagon though, upon reading the thread I found both BKE and Kurumi extremely suspicious, regardless of other players posts, and made my thoughts known. BKE says alot while conveying extremely little actual information, appearing to be helpful but really just mixing the pot. Kurumi writes long winded, somewhat schizophrenic sounding poems to his co-workers that are about as informative as a fortune cookie. I don't to see a vote count or FOS: BKE FOS:Kurumi for my brain to begin forming conclusions. As for the cutesy yuck bit, he seemed pretty angry that I would vote in the vote in the voting thread without warning him, so I tried to keep things light (read: I wrote something much ruder but thought better of it and decided to kill him with niceness :D) As far as calling out casualman, I tried very hard to think of any strategic reason a town would vote for themselves and I could think of none. I had the same issue with VE voting for himself, but voted unvoted in the same post, sort of like lowering and raising a supply depot while you wait for your rax to build i guess, so I really don't have a problem with it going under the radar. Bugs suggested this about his apeshit behaviour at night: On July 03 2012 07:04 NoSmurfHere wrote: even if I'm not established he'd just call me scum. To call me godfather is stretching unnecessarily. It could only mean he already knows my alignment. I don't really see a reason why a townie would call someone godfather. Scum pushing a townie, or scum distancing himself from an actual godfather are both better explanations. I seem to remember there being another case against Twelve which was the one that actually made him blip on my scumdar, but I cannot find it. Anyway, yeah. I'm still not completely sure about Vivax, Katina has gone awol again. Lets kill Twelve. ##unvote ##vote Twelve | ||
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On July 04 2012 08:32 kingdedede wrote: I had a very slight town read on ShiaoPi after D1. I also don't think he fits with the others in the lurker category, he has been posting reads. I haven't analyzed his filter in a while, but I also remember him clearing some of the wifom flying around with drwiggl3s going nuts at night. I liked Twelve for lynching after reading his filter and the cases on him. My vote's on him. I don't know why people are suddenly switching. It feels like something is being manipulated, but I don't know what. I'll think about it. Maybe while asleep shit will fall together and we can lynch scum tomorrow. Sigh. Stupid SSB hydra/smurf. kingderpdederp is clearly me. | ||
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Twelve: so who DO you want to lynch? What do you think of Bugs now that you didn't get shot by him? Mandalor: same question. I see a lot of defensive talking about yourself and explaining your actions. Talk about other people in this game. Who do you want to lynch? Maju, Adam, Grush, casualman: where the hell are you? | ||
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On July 04 2012 12:09 Mattchew wrote: I completely forgot adam was in this game, I have NEVER seen him play like this before. He is ALWAYS helpful, active and extremely townie as town Funny. I thought you were in Holy Roman. That was the only game I played together with Adam and he played exactly the same there until he got dayvig'd in the face on D2. If we have a dayvig I think doing the same this game is a good idea. | ||
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That is what has been bugging me since yesterday and I still can't make sense of it, so I'll just let that ugly tangle lie there and ignore it for now. We currently have like 5 lynching candidates with votes on them (ignoring the outliers who have so far not gained traction): Twelve: scum. I have my vote on him. I suggest you do the same. ShiaoPi: uncomfortable lynching him for reasons stated above. Katina: grouped with ET for highest probable veteran to be scum. I actually think her case on Mandalor has merit. But her best read is on a lurker, which is kind of a cop-out for a veteran. She was under pressure, came in and made a complete throwaway case on casualman, is not pushing the case and has probably gone off to lalaland again. If someone with a better metaread can point me in the right direction I will sheep. So far Mattchew and VE have town reads and Bugs and ghost have a scum read from meta. I was leaning scum based on the meta. Mattchew shot that down without explaining. Still waiting to hear why Katina is playing to her town meta from people with more playtime with her (particularly from Mattchew) before deciding on her. It seems clear that we're not going to get anything useful out of her today. Vivax: still unsure on what the hell he is. Uncomfortable with lynching him at the moment | ||
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On July 04 2012 08:32 kingdedede wrote: I had a very slight town read on ShiaoPi after D1. I also don't think he fits with the others in the lurker category, he has been posting reads. I haven't analyzed his filter in a while, but I also remember him clearing some of the wifom flying around with drwiggl3s going nuts at night. I liked Twelve for lynching after reading his filter and the cases on him. My vote's on him. I don't know why people are suddenly switching. It feels like something is being manipulated, but I don't know what. I'll think about it. Maybe while asleep shit will fall together and we can lynch scum tomorrow. I have also since gone through his filter and find he is still contributing and trying to push his reads. I disagree with his main suspect, Hyaach, but I disagree with your main suspect too and am not trying to lynch you for it. Am I convinced he's town? No. I just think Twelve is looking a lot worse. I also want to hear why exactly Mattchew and VE think Katina is town. I'm not seeing the meta read. Aside: reason I don't like Hyaach for the lynch is because I have a hard time believing that scum posts a random list of suspects, but puts someone on there who is both replaced AND the replacement was shot by the very scumteam he's supposed to be a part of. | ||
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On July 05 2012 01:53 Vivax wrote: You can skip the whole thing if it mindfucks you. I'll break it down to my intentions based on that reasoning: ##Vote for people I downright disagree on your policy, but the list you come up with corresponds to mine. I don't like a grush lynch, but it's mainly meta (he's playing the same as in space station where I blew him up and he flipped town). Other people have referenced LV and I agree that there he played far more actively. No clue how to read him and it seems like a coinflip. I have him with kurumi, casualman, majuju and adam: I'd bet my life that there's scum in that list, but fucked if I know how many or which ones. If there's still a vig with bullets he should be shooting into this list, though. DT should also be checking these, because I have given up trying to get a read from their posts. I actually find your whole logic on the policy completely topsy turvy and it also doesn't agree with your conclusions. Twelve, Katina and ET all have filters that are readable. They can be analyzed. We can analyze the cases made against them too. That gives us information to work with to unravel the rest of the team. Eventually we'll have to deal with the lurker team, but with, hopefully, some aid from vigis and DTs we won't have to lynch all six of them (we don't have time anyway). Now onto scumhunting: ET and Katina are the only two who have changed since last we chatted. Katina is here and posting. She seems unconcerned about getting lynched, which is more townie than scum. Then again, I was just told in SSB that reactions are the easiest thing to fake for scum. Still on the fence. ET has steadily been rising. The more I read his filter the more I see reasons for scum to post the way he does and the less it appears to be townie. His utter lack of defense against the cases raised against him, and his failure to do any scumhunting today despite the promise are making him look scummier every time I look at it. But Twelve is a better lynch, imho. There are just too many contradictions and coincidences in his filter. #ITEM No. 1 On July 04 2012 15:15 Twelve wrote: I'm still thinking on this. I think casualman probably still our most likely scum lynch. I'll get back to you tomorrow morning on the info lynch. I'm not feeling the casualman lynch as a scum lynch. I hate associative cases before we flip someone, but with Katina and Twelve both pushing casualman it just feels like the easy townie that is being thrown in front of the truck by the scumteam. I also don't buy his "most likely scum lynch": it's a coinflip. No. The most likely scumflip is Twelve. #ITEM No. 2 On July 04 2012 10:13 Twelve wrote: @Acrofales + Show Spoiler + On July 04 2012 06:01 Acrofales wrote: Okay. I've read Twelve's filter and some of the points brought up about him. I now have a top 3 people I want to lynch. Twelve has some stuff that reads like scum. Compilation of the cases: I don't know why Mattchew is making connection cases based on not-yet-flipped people, but of the two I think Twelve is more likely to flip scum and I think this case sums up his D1 behaviour. Twelve's defense consists mainly of "it was a joke" and some discussion about what a bandwagon is, which seemed okay when I hadn't read his filter and only saw the case in a list of scum. Now I'm no longer convinced. + Show Spoiler [Twelve's defense] + On July 02 2012 04:55 Twelve wrote: @Mattchew haha where to start... My first post that you quote was from before the game even started, so it probably shouldn't be taken to seriously. I simply don't know anyone here and was trying to start a conversation. The fact that you see a contradiction is also puzzling I can sort of see how it could be misinterpreted that I was saying "I am all for the hatred of bandwagons" but thats not what I was saying. In fact I was saying the opposite, I was asking to be clued in so I could join a bandwagon, but this was largely a joke. Suffice to say, anything I said before the game officially started probably shouldn't concern town too much. I do take issue with your use of the word band wagon though, upon reading the thread I found both BKE and Kurumi extremely suspicious, regardless of other players posts, and made my thoughts known. BKE says alot while conveying extremely little actual information, appearing to be helpful but really just mixing the pot. Kurumi writes long winded, somewhat schizophrenic sounding poems to his co-workers that are about as informative as a fortune cookie. I don't to see a vote count or FOS: BKE FOS:Kurumi for my brain to begin forming conclusions. As for the cutesy yuck bit, he seemed pretty angry that I would vote in the vote in the voting thread without warning him, so I tried to keep things light (read: I wrote something much ruder but thought better of it and decided to kill him with niceness :D) As far as calling out casualman, I tried very hard to think of any strategic reason a town would vote for themselves and I could think of none. I had the same issue with VE voting for himself, but voted unvoted in the same post, sort of like lowering and raising a supply depot while you wait for your rax to build i guess, so I really don't have a problem with it going under the radar. Bugs suggested this about his apeshit behaviour at night: I don't really see a reason why a townie would call someone godfather. Scum pushing a townie, or scum distancing himself from an actual godfather are both better explanations. I seem to remember there being another case against Twelve which was the one that actually made him blip on my scumdar, but I cannot find it. Anyway, yeah. I'm still not completely sure about Vivax, Katina has gone awol again. Lets kill Twelve. ##unvote ##vote Twelve I am curious why you are quoting Mattchew to make your case against me. Mattchew never had a case against me, it never had any traction, He misread a post from before the game ever started and tried to point out my "contradictions". Ridiculousness. The reason I said what I said about NoSmurfHere was because I wanted to get my notes out to a detective in case I died. Maybe indicative of newbieness, but I didn't want to die and not be able to say anything else. Finally, would you mind revisiting your scumdar and finding an actual case against me? I'll gladly answer any further questions. I had quoted Mattchew's case mainly for its second point, which was the HORRID reasoning around his BKE vote. The first point seemed adequately explained by s0lstice as Mattchew failing reading comprehension, but the reasoning around Twelve's vote was terrible and Mattchew called him out on it. However, that doesn't really matter. The problem is with the bolded part in the reply. This reads to me like a scum who had dodged a bullet. Unfortunately for Twelve, Mafia doesn't work like that and now Mattchew's read is gaining traction. He panicked and tried to wave it off. Yes, the first part of the case was crap, but the second point was valid, and still is. Dismissing half the post as bullshit doesn't make the other half bullshit too. ITEM No. 3 His night behaviour. How the hell do you go from "he's scum" to "he's the godfather" without some kind of prior knowledge. I don't get it and no matter how many times Twelve tells me it was a "noobie mistake" I still won't get it. In closing, Twelve is scum and should die for his sins. ##vote Twelve for reinforcement, my vote is already in the right spot | ||
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I'll make sure my vote is on scum on Friday when I leave and pray I live through the night, so I can join you again on Monday and win this game for town! | ||
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On July 05 2012 04:36 Vivax wrote: Acro, consider a vote switch to ET? Tell me why and I might. | ||
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On July 05 2012 04:43 Vivax wrote: Cause Twelve suspected Bugs, who wasn't under pressure at the time, and rastaban. The guy who got killed by mafia. I wouldn't understand the actions from a scum point of view. There's a lot of talk about ET already. Take the way he tries to influence bandwagons without reads. I have to say that I missed that bit from Twelve. Let me take another look, it could be a mistake, but you're right, there's something wonky there. In fact, it's the same reason why I started to think you weren't scum after all, lol. I have to say that twelve's posts are harder to make sense of. It's not so much a case as a conspiracy theory. I'll have to think about it. | ||
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First relevant post, when Twelve goes all paranoid theory: + Show Spoiler + On July 03 2012 06:43 Twelve wrote: I'm hesitant to post this,but I have a feeling I may be killed tonight, and a REALLY strong feeling NoSmurfHere WILL NOT be Mafia killed tonight. I made a list of people who jumped on the mKmKmK lynch as I felt it was just an attempt of mafia to get a townie lurker lynched. As I went through the list of names using their filters, I came to some tentative conclusions. My current read is that if there is a Ringleader in this game (godfather), it is NoSmurfHere. + Show Spoiler + NoSmurfHere New Zealand. July 01 2012 10:25 Also your belief in "proof" probably suggests you shouldn't be playing mafia, given that most accurate reads are not based on anything anywhere close to proof. I feel he may be breadcrumbing for a detective role check. It was just a note next to his name when I Look at the interaction between NoSmurfHere and rastaban. After NoSmurfHere starts the bandwagon against mKmKmK(a lurker lynch I really didn't agree with), he seems very interested in a role claim from NoSmurfHere, perhaps trying to get a detective to waste a night and make a really dangerous "confirmed towny". + Show Spoiler + On July 01 2012 00:53 rastaban wrote: Yeah let's not anger the host. The other option is he is a blue acting strangely to it, but I am sure Mafia already thought of this if he isn't on their team so he is outed regardless of alignment. I think this is the easy and probably accurate lynch for today, so we should be thinking about pushing for a role claim from him. I may be reaching, but again, I think I may wake up dead and wanted to get my thoughts out there. Is he trying to link Bugs and Rastaban as scum members? He quotes Rastaban talking with EchelonTee about Bugs's VT roleclaim and says he's quoting an exchange between Rastaban and Bugs. At the time, I read this as him saying Rastaban or mK was a town DT who Bugs was trying to poke into checking him at night. I also didn't read Rastaban's post as him saying someone should check Bugs at night, but rather someone should check mK. So this whole thing confused me and all I got from that was "he says bugs is scum, but out-wifoms himself and says he's the godfather". That has two explanations: he's scum and knows bugs will look like town, or he's a townie out-wifoming himself who really thinks bugs is scumslipping his godfather role (as marvellosity seemed to think). What I didn't get from it was the theory of Bugs+Rastaban scumbuddies. The follow-up at daytime: + Show Spoiler + On July 04 2012 09:39 Twelve wrote: Alright I'm going to try and clarify some things since apparently I didn't explain myself very coherently. On the Foxtrotter swtich - I had just got a scummy read on foxtrotter out of the thread. I checked the voting thread and saw that a large bandwagon had formed on him. When I went to find out why there was such a huge swing of votes towards him, I noticed that I had less then 1 hour to vote. Instead of figuring out exactly how much time I had I just "ninja" switched in both threads. On saying "soooo, i guess i'll shut up :D " - I had just posted a ridiculous conspiracy theory/rant against NoSmurfHere. I still think he is scum, but it was a bad way to present the information. Anyways, pretty much every single thing I wrote turned out to be false. NoSmurfHere cannot be ringleader because BM was the Ringleader. Rastaban cannot be NoSmurfHere's mafia partner because Rastaban turned up green. Once i knew the facts, I felt silly for posting my theory, and offered to shut up. So this could be the fantastic failing of a scumplan and him covering it up. Or it could be a townie explaining how his giant conspiracy theory just failed spectacularly. I think this needs to be sorted out before we lynch Twelve and I am kinda backing down from my case. The rest of his filter is still terrible, but I agree that this whole conspiracy theory into backpedalling is too fucking weird to see from a scum mindset from my point of view. [b]##unvote for now. | ||
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We also need to start thinking about the scum hiding between the inactive trolls. Adam is out of the way (yay moderators for doing our job for us), but that still leaves 4 of them. I don't usually like vigis and DTs working in the same spot, but I kinda think we need to get our lurkers out of the way. Lets shoot or check them, before we think of lynching them: Maju, Kurumi, Grush and casualman are all completely null to me and I fear they'll stay that way until lylo, because their activity has been negligible (or in the case of Kurumi, jibberish). Other than that, I will be going over the filters I neglected. | ||
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On July 06 2012 00:37 Mattchew wrote: Somebody please explain to me the reason for ET's lynch (and the final votes coming) after Mr Wiggles announced he was asking for replacement? The whole reason in my mind for the ET lynch was because he was inactive and out of character... VE were you around for all this? How about you WBG? Acro? Thoughts? Other than me using hindsight to yell at pretty much everyone, I am struggling to find a lot of people's reasons for voting ET which is strange. This all leads me to WHY WASN'T TWELVE LYNCHED. ET WAS ABOUT TO BE REPLACED AND/OR MODKILLED. i hope we have to vig to blow his head off. Ghost, I know your all like confirmed town and all, but can you please participate a little more My reasoning on ET is in my filter. Someone (Vivax?) pointed out something wrong with the case on Twelve. I agreed and decided that ET was the next best option. I voted and went to cook, eat, spend time with the gf. When I came back it was the daypost in SSB mafia and Artanis was spamming me with Skype messages, so I never got to look at the thread again until this morning. | ||
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However, I really dislike the complete lack of any direct reads from you. I see a lot of "if twelve is scum, then BKE is town", which is really really useless. You seem to be all over lists, so lets have yours then. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17158 Posts
On July 06 2012 06:02 austinmcc wrote: Not mentioned in the above timeline is Acrofales. Here's the short form of Acro during D2. 23:43 - Votes Katina - + Show Spoiler + On July 03 2012 23:42 Acrofales wrote: Hrmmm, I disagree. I don't know when she started making decent sensible cases and pushing her reads in Jubjub, but she has not done that yet here. I guess the frivolous nonsense is more like jubjub than like MTG, but I don't get the feeling she's putting effort into scumhunting this game (see her D1 reason, and later defense of her BKE vote), whereas she was clearly doing that in jubjub. ##vote katina ***For the next 6 hours or so, Acro has two targets: Katina and Vivax. He was on Vivax a lot D1 and overnight, and just kept bringing those two up. + Show Spoiler + On July 04 2012 03:01 Acrofales wrote: I think the lynch should be between Vivax and Katina. On July 04 2012 03:07 Acrofales wrote: Oh, and just in case it's not clear from my vote, I currently favour Katina over Vivax. 6:01 - 6:03 - Acro swaps from Katina to Twelve - + Show Spoiler + On July 04 2012 06:01 Acrofales wrote: Okay. I've read Twelve's filter and some of the points brought up about him. I now have a top 3 people I want to lynch. Twelve has some stuff that reads like scum. Compilation of the cases: I don't know why Mattchew is making connection cases based on not-yet-flipped people, but of the two I think Twelve is more likely to flip scum and I think this case sums up his D1 behaviour. Twelve's defense consists mainly of "it was a joke" and some discussion about what a bandwagon is, which seemed okay when I hadn't read his filter and only saw the case in a list of scum. Now I'm no longer convinced. + Show Spoiler [Twelve's defense] + On July 02 2012 04:55 Twelve wrote: @Mattchew haha where to start... My first post that you quote was from before the game even started, so it probably shouldn't be taken to seriously. I simply don't know anyone here and was trying to start a conversation. The fact that you see a contradiction is also puzzling I can sort of see how it could be misinterpreted that I was saying "I am all for the hatred of bandwagons" but thats not what I was saying. In fact I was saying the opposite, I was asking to be clued in so I could join a bandwagon, but this was largely a joke. Suffice to say, anything I said before the game officially started probably shouldn't concern town too much. I do take issue with your use of the word band wagon though, upon reading the thread I found both BKE and Kurumi extremely suspicious, regardless of other players posts, and made my thoughts known. BKE says alot while conveying extremely little actual information, appearing to be helpful but really just mixing the pot. Kurumi writes long winded, somewhat schizophrenic sounding poems to his co-workers that are about as informative as a fortune cookie. I don't to see a vote count or FOS: BKE FOS:Kurumi for my brain to begin forming conclusions. As for the cutesy yuck bit, he seemed pretty angry that I would vote in the vote in the voting thread without warning him, so I tried to keep things light (read: I wrote something much ruder but thought better of it and decided to kill him with niceness :D) As far as calling out casualman, I tried very hard to think of any strategic reason a town would vote for themselves and I could think of none. I had the same issue with VE voting for himself, but voted unvoted in the same post, sort of like lowering and raising a supply depot while you wait for your rax to build i guess, so I really don't have a problem with it going under the radar. Bugs suggested this about his apeshit behaviour at night: I don't really see a reason why a townie would call someone godfather. Scum pushing a townie, or scum distancing himself from an actual godfather are both better explanations. I seem to remember there being another case against Twelve which was the one that actually made him blip on my scumdar, but I cannot find it. Anyway, yeah. I'm still not completely sure about Vivax, Katina has gone awol again. Lets kill Twelve. ##unvote ##vote Twelve ***Acro stays on Twelve for a while. Continues referencing Katina/Vivax in posts. Between wanting to lynch Vivax or Katina and now, he's somehow unsure on Vivax - + Show Spoiler + On July 04 2012 21:33 Acrofales wrote: Twelve: scum. I have my vote on him. I suggest you do the same. ShiaoPi: uncomfortable lynching him for reasons stated above. Katina: grouped with ET for highest probable veteran to be scum. I actually think her case on Mandalor has merit. But her best read is on a lurker, which is kind of a cop-out for a veteran. She was under pressure, came in and made a complete throwaway case on casualman, is not pushing the case and has probably gone off to lalaland again. If someone with a better metaread can point me in the right direction I will sheep. So far Mattchew and VE have town reads and Bugs and ghost have a scum read from meta. I was leaning scum based on the meta. Mattchew shot that down without explaining. Still waiting to hear why Katina is playing to her town meta from people with more playtime with her (particularly from Mattchew) before deciding on her. It seems clear that we're not going to get anything useful out of her today. Vivax: still unsure on what the hell he is. Uncomfortable with lynching him at the moment 3:02 - Reinforcement of his position on Twelve, after some back and forth with Vivax. Notes that he has been getting a scummier feeling on ET because of lack of defense/lack of scumhunting - + Show Spoiler + On July 05 2012 03:02 Acrofales wrote: I downright disagree on your policy, but the list you come up with corresponds to mine. I don't like a grush lynch, but it's mainly meta (he's playing the same as in space station where I blew him up and he flipped town). Other people have referenced LV and I agree that there he played far more actively. No clue how to read him and it seems like a coinflip. I have him with kurumi, casualman, majuju and adam: I'd bet my life that there's scum in that list, but fucked if I know how many or which ones. If there's still a vig with bullets he should be shooting into this list, though. DT should also be checking these, because I have given up trying to get a read from their posts. I actually find your whole logic on the policy completely topsy turvy and it also doesn't agree with your conclusions. Twelve, Katina and ET all have filters that are readable. They can be analyzed. We can analyze the cases made against them too. That gives us information to work with to unravel the rest of the team. Eventually we'll have to deal with the lurker team, but with, hopefully, some aid from vigis and DTs we won't have to lynch all six of them (we don't have time anyway). Now onto scumhunting: ET and Katina are the only two who have changed since last we chatted. Katina is here and posting. She seems unconcerned about getting lynched, which is more townie than scum. Then again, I was just told in SSB that reactions are the easiest thing to fake for scum. Still on the fence. ET has steadily been rising. The more I read his filter the more I see reasons for scum to post the way he does and the less it appears to be townie. His utter lack of defense against the cases raised against him, and his failure to do any scumhunting today despite the promise are making him look scummier every time I look at it. But Twelve is a better lynch, imho. There are just too many contradictions and coincidences in his filter. #ITEM No. 1 I'm not feeling the casualman lynch as a scum lynch. I hate associative cases before we flip someone, but with Katina and Twelve both pushing casualman it just feels like the easy townie that is being thrown in front of the truck by the scumteam. I also don't buy his "most likely scum lynch": it's a coinflip. No. The most likely scumflip is Twelve. #ITEM No. 2 I had quoted Mattchew's case mainly for its second point, which was the HORRID reasoning around his BKE vote. The first point seemed adequately explained by s0lstice as Mattchew failing reading comprehension, but the reasoning around Twelve's vote was terrible and Mattchew called him out on it. However, that doesn't really matter. The problem is with the bolded part in the reply. This reads to me like a scum who had dodged a bullet. Unfortunately for Twelve, Mafia doesn't work like that and now Mattchew's read is gaining traction. He panicked and tried to wave it off. Yes, the first part of the case was crap, but the second point was valid, and still is. Dismissing half the post as bullshit doesn't make the other half bullshit too. ITEM No. 3 His night behaviour. How the hell do you go from "he's scum" to "he's the godfather" without some kind of prior knowledge. I don't get it and no matter how many times Twelve tells me it was a "noobie mistake" I still won't get it. In closing, Twelve is scum and should die for his sins. ##vote Twelve for reinforcement, my vote is already in the right spot 4:30 - 6:00 - Interaction between Vivax and Acro ***Acro unvotes Twelve, votes ET*** Of specific note is the post from 3:02. Look at Acro's reads on ET/Twelve
Now look at Acro's later reads on ET/Twelve
Who convinced Acro to change his read? Oh, one of his main suspects during D1 and part of D2, Vivax. The guy he was so suspicious of, but didn't quite want to vote for. And yes, I've defended Vivax and had a townread on him. I'm basically suggesting with this post that Acro/Vivax may be scum, and this is action between them, and Acro bussed BM, etc.. They both flopped all over Twelve/ET yesterday. Fight with each other in some posts, then all of a sudden Vivax causes Acro to see the light and swap to ET. Acro never returns, Vivax the convincer later swap to Twelve, then to ET later after Wiggles tells us ET will be replaced. Not confident in his read enough to stay on the guy that he's convincing someone else to swap to. Super Bonus Fun Post! Adam comes under suspicion. Vivax pops back to D1 and finds what felt like a joke post from BM asking folks to shoot at Adam. Not damning, but I really don't like some of these interactions. I don't much like your short version. Let me counter with mine: Here is my case on Vivax last night: + Show Spoiler [last night] + On July 02 2012 17:41 Acrofales wrote: <snip> Vivax: I like you for a D2 lynch too. Every single case you've made has been some kind of wonky connection-based case with terrible premises. I'm not sure what s0lstice sees in you that's townie, but I'm not getting it. 1. You are not reading the thread properly despite being told multiple times by multiple people (myself, VE and marvellosity so far) to read the thread. 2. You are throwing suspicion around on people without giving a real reason (myself, VE, Shiao and marvellosity). While you built a dodgy connection case on VE and me based on the premise that BM is town (can we please lynch and/or shoot BM?!), your "suspicion" of marvellosity is that he is shutting down discussion at a time he was GENERATING discussion. You also don't like ShiaoPi for some unspecified reasons. You are therefore casting suspicion without real reason on:
I'd be happy to look into any of the 3 players if you tell me what you think is scummy, but saying "you're shutting down discussion when he isn't" or "I don't like your posts" is trying to take away momentum from town players and creating a bad atmosphere. That is scum agenda point number 1. 3. Your scumhunting is limited to making connection cases. The only case that isn't a connection case is suggesting grush for a lurker lynch. I say above what I think about grush. However, it's a pretty damned easy case to make. It was also at a time to create MORE chaos in a thread that was consolidating on a lynch (however badly that turned out). Adding candidates 1 hour before the deadline is a terrible idea unless someone suddenly stands out as obvious scum. Grush didn't do that, it was just another lurker to be added to the list. Why? To make the votecount even more dispersed and less useful than it is now? For somoene who likes connection cases this is fucking weird: the strongest connnections are votes. 4. Your voting behaviour. You said Mandalor was scum. I haven't even seen you give a good reason why on that one either, but regardless of that, somehow your ninjavote ended up on mK: On July 01 2012 21:45 Vivax wrote: ##unvote ##Vote mKmKmK Note the timestamp: 12 hours before the deadline. A look in his filter gives us this post: [spoiler=Vivax defending mK] On July 01 2012 21:42 Vivax wrote: Ok, ET. Looks like I'll have to do the talk for you: "Why the hell is Vivax using that argument when I've already posted 2 others for a scum mK being an option?Does he want to say that the policy is the only reason I'm doing that?" 1. The scum claim you adressed. I guess with it you meant that he says VE used good arguments against BKE, but then considers him to be scummy for one line of text than really says nothing about VE's alignment. Then he suspects kurumi for 'mafiavibes', that's all. I agree that his arguments are terrible and contain zero information. From this point of view he's actually scummy or bad townie. 2. His low activity after that post I don't know how experienced it is, but that behavior would also fit a blue role. That would also be the argument made by you I consider to not be decisive, yet you treat this as a strong argument against him. 3. His wishywashy post regarding the VT roleclaim. A blue role could react like that, too. ___________________________________________ I'm kind of changing my opinion regarding him after writing this. Mainly because of point 1 .I still think that point 2 and 3 wouldn't be enough for me to vote for him. But 1 is a good argument to vote for him. Sorry if I don't have as much faith in the kenpachi rule as you do, but I didn't see it successfully in action through multiple games, and I also see the downsides. [/spoiler] So, you are unconvinced by ET's case on mK, there is absolutely NO reason to consolidate votes, yet 3 minutes later you ninjavote for mK's death. I have to say, I don't understand this move from a scum PoV either, but I understand it LESS from a town PoV: how do you defend a guy and then vote for him 3 minutes later. Best fitting explanation I can think of: you're noob scum naïvely bussing your teammate and thinking you can salvage it with some chaos and a D2 BKE lynch (he made a post trying to connect mK and BKE 10 minutes after his vote). In closing, you're scum I thought that case was pretty good. Even more so when it got immediately spammed under by Wiggl3s and ET's little spat and Vivax posting this: + Show Spoiler [Vivax gloating about the lack of tract…] + On July 02 2012 18:49 Vivax wrote: Poor poor acrofales. Posting such a huge case and then he gets zero attention for it I'll give you some: Get your things straight, thinking I'd be mafia is ridiculous. Let's string up people for the FT mislynch.I told you the cases against him were bullshit and more of a policy lynch than anything else. That said, marv, I don't see you drawing conclusions after his death, but you criticisized mine before his death for being premature. You contribute zero to town except for causing bandwagons, and your posts are numerous, but not helpful. I'll anticipate what I'm gonna do day2. ##Vote marvellosity In that same post he is putting pressure on marvellosity. At the time I found that scummy as well, because marv was one of my strongest town reads (not post-hoc for all you unbelievers, look at the night case I made against Vivax), so I was feeling pretty good about going to push Vivax on D2. However, at the start of D2 marv flipped green. Also drwiggl3s, who I kinda suspected for spamming away my case flipped green. So while my case was still making sense to me, I had to admit that it wasn't scum shitting up the thread to bury my case (and with ET flipping green too that theory is completely out the window now) and that brought me back to that night post. How does a scum Vivax make a case on marvellosity (one of my strongest town reads and I presume I wasn't the only one) and then scum shoots him? That kept playing through my head and was the main thing I was trying to make sense of with Vivax. Here is where I say that, although I admit I could have said it clearer: + Show Spoiler [doubts about Vivax] + On July 03 2012 22:05 Acrofales wrote: Okay. Lets talk about Vivax. Here's my case from last night: [spoiler=full post] On July 02 2012 17:41 Acrofales wrote: Marvellosity, why you no lead me to scum? I disagree with drwiggl3s. He seems to be implying that everybody should've voted for BKE, because the lynch was lead off him by scum. Clearly a possibility, but as the day went on I was also getting townier vibes about BKE, so it could just be townies realizing that lynching BKE was a bad idea when push came to shove. The choice between mK and foxtrotter is still pretty null in my book. Marvellosity made a case against foxtrotter for being a hypocrit. ET made a case against mK for kenpachi rule. Other than these two things both were lurkers. I ended up sheeping marvellosity because I liked his case a bit more. Turns out that was wrong. + Show Spoiler [votecount] + mKmKmK - 6 rastaban Kurumi Vivax austinmcc Foxtrotter grush57 BroodKingEXE - 6 Katina ShiaoPi drwiggl3s Bill Murray Mandalor layabout casualman - 2 BroodKingEXE casualman Foxtrotter - 11 Marvellosity Mattchew Acrofales EchelonTee s0Lstice Hyaach VisceraEyes MajuGarzett NoSmurfHere Twelve ghost_403 Mandalor - 1 Adam4167 No vote: mKmKmK There's a few things I want to draw from the votecount. The first is that mK never even showed up to vote, so he should get modkilled or replaced. I don't think it's worth discussing him until one of those things happens. Inactives are null, although I have a meta-argument that if the host puts in a lot of work to find a replacement for an inactive, he is probably scum. It has worked in Holy Roman (it took Caller/Toad/blubb a lot of effort to replace Vaderseven; he was scum) and in Game of Thrones (it took Curu a LOT of effort to replace Gumshoe; also was scum). 2 is a pretty shitty sample size for statistics, but it's worth remembering. The second is that I was kinda expecting casualman to switch his vote at some point during the day, but he never did, not even when the lynch was equally balanced between 3 targets. That goes beyond the earlier simple trolling to being full-blown retarded. If someone would do us the favour of shooting him tonight so we don't have to worry about him tomorrow, that'd be great. grush: I asked you earlier who you wanted to lynch. I am unsatisfied with: + Show Spoiler [suspicious of casualman] + On July 02 2012 01:57 grush57 wrote: I have to agree. Atleast BM isn't going full retard like casualman. Casualman doesn't want to play and is just being plain stupid. Plus, he is by far playing the most scummiest so far. + Show Spoiler [calls BKE scum] + Into voting for mK with no prior reasoning. Now given the pre-game banter you seem to be one of those players who looks scummy in all his games, regardless of actual alignment (like bluelightz and Zealos). I know you looked scummy in Space Station and were town, because I blew you up for looking scummy (or rather, placed a bomb on you and scum shot me). However, this looks terrible. I want to know what the rest of the thread thinks of this. It's night, so plenty of time to discuss. Vivax: I like you for a D2 lynch too. Every single case you've made has been some kind of wonky connection-based case with terrible premises. I'm not sure what s0lstice sees in you that's townie, but I'm not getting it. 1. You are not reading the thread properly despite being told multiple times by multiple people (myself, VE and marvellosity so far) to read the thread. 2. You are throwing suspicion around on people without giving a real reason (myself, VE, Shiao and marvellosity). While you built a dodgy connection case on VE and me based on the premise that BM is town (can we please lynch and/or shoot BM?!), your "suspicion" of marvellosity is that he is shutting down discussion at a time he was GENERATING discussion. You also don't like ShiaoPi for some unspecified reasons. You are therefore casting suspicion without real reason on:
I'd be happy to look into any of the 3 players if you tell me what you think is scummy, but saying "you're shutting down discussion when he isn't" or "I don't like your posts" is trying to take away momentum from town players and creating a bad atmosphere. That is scum agenda point number 1. 3. Your scumhunting is limited to making connection cases. The only case that isn't a connection case is suggesting grush for a lurker lynch. I say above what I think about grush. However, it's a pretty damned easy case to make. It was also at a time to create MORE chaos in a thread that was consolidating on a lynch (however badly that turned out). Adding candidates 1 hour before the deadline is a terrible idea unless someone suddenly stands out as obvious scum. Grush didn't do that, it was just another lurker to be added to the list. Why? To make the votecount even more dispersed and less useful than it is now? For somoene who likes connection cases this is fucking weird: the strongest connnections are votes. 4. Your voting behaviour. You said Mandalor was scum. I haven't even seen you give a good reason why on that one either, but regardless of that, somehow your ninjavote ended up on mK: Note the timestamp: 12 hours before the deadline. A look in his filter gives us this post: + Show Spoiler [Vivax defending mK] + On July 01 2012 21:42 Vivax wrote: Ok, ET. Looks like I'll have to do the talk for you: "Why the hell is Vivax using that argument when I've already posted 2 others for a scum mK being an option?Does he want to say that the policy is the only reason I'm doing that?" 1. The scum claim you adressed. I guess with it you meant that he says VE used good arguments against BKE, but then considers him to be scummy for one line of text than really says nothing about VE's alignment. Then he suspects kurumi for 'mafiavibes', that's all. I agree that his arguments are terrible and contain zero information. From this point of view he's actually scummy or bad townie. 2. His low activity after that post I don't know how experienced it is, but that behavior would also fit a blue role. That would also be the argument made by you I consider to not be decisive, yet you treat this as a strong argument against him. 3. His wishywashy post regarding the VT roleclaim. A blue role could react like that, too. ___________________________________________ I'm kind of changing my opinion regarding him after writing this. Mainly because of point 1 .I still think that point 2 and 3 wouldn't be enough for me to vote for him. But 1 is a good argument to vote for him. Sorry if I don't have as much faith in the kenpachi rule as you do, but I didn't see it successfully in action through multiple games, and I also see the downsides. So, you are unconvinced by ET's case on mK, there is absolutely NO reason to consolidate votes, yet 3 minutes later you ninjavote for mK's death. I have to say, I don't understand this move from a scum PoV either, but I understand it LESS from a town PoV: how do you defend a guy and then vote for him 3 minutes later. Best fitting explanation I can think of: you're noob scum naïvely bussing your teammate and thinking you can salvage it with some chaos and a D2 BKE lynch (he made a post trying to connect mK and BKE 10 minutes after his vote). In closing, you're scum [/spoiler] Most of that still stands. However, the last part is clearly not true. 4. Your voting behaviour. You said Mandalor was scum. I haven't even seen you give a good reason why on that one either, but regardless of that, somehow your ninjavote ended up on mK: Note the timestamp: 12 hours before the deadline. A look in his filter gives us this post: + Show Spoiler [Vivax defending mK] + On July 01 2012 21:42 Vivax wrote: Ok, ET. Looks like I'll have to do the talk for you: "Why the hell is Vivax using that argument when I've already posted 2 others for a scum mK being an option?Does he want to say that the policy is the only reason I'm doing that?" 1. The scum claim you adressed. I guess with it you meant that he says VE used good arguments against BKE, but then considers him to be scummy for one line of text than really says nothing about VE's alignment. Then he suspects kurumi for 'mafiavibes', that's all. I agree that his arguments are terrible and contain zero information. From this point of view he's actually scummy or bad townie. 2. His low activity after that post I don't know how experienced it is, but that behavior would also fit a blue role. That would also be the argument made by you I consider to not be decisive, yet you treat this as a strong argument against him. 3. His wishywashy post regarding the VT roleclaim. A blue role could react like that, too. ___________________________________________ I'm kind of changing my opinion regarding him after writing this. Mainly because of point 1 .I still think that point 2 and 3 wouldn't be enough for me to vote for him. But 1 is a good argument to vote for him. Sorry if I don't have as much faith in the kenpachi rule as you do, but I didn't see it successfully in action through multiple games, and I also see the downsides. So, you are unconvinced by ET's case on mK, there is absolutely NO reason to consolidate votes, yet 3 minutes later you ninjavote for mK's death. I have to say, I don't understand this move from a scum PoV either, but I understand it LESS from a town PoV: how do you defend a guy and then vote for him 3 minutes later. Best fitting explanation I can think of: you're noob scum naïvely bussing your teammate and thinking you can salvage it with some chaos and a D2 BKE lynch (he made a post trying to connect mK and BKE 10 minutes after his vote). Vivax, I am trying to puzzle out how this works from scum OR town. We now know mK is town. I cannot think of an explanation for how your vote ended up on him after defending him, regardless of your alignment. I want you to explain your thought process here to me, because the same happened slightly later again. [spoiler=Vivax pre-votes marv] On July 02 2012 18:49 Vivax wrote: Poor poor acrofales. Posting such a huge case and then he gets zero attention for it I'll give you some: Get your things straight, thinking I'd be mafia is ridiculous. Let's string up people for the FT mislynch.I told you the cases against him were bullshit and more of a policy lynch than anything else. That said, marv, I don't see you drawing conclusions after his death, but you criticisized mine before his death for being premature. You contribute zero to town except for causing bandwagons, and your posts are numerous, but not helpful. I'll anticipate what I'm gonna do day2. ##Vote marvellosity [/spoiler] Marv dies at the daypost and flips town. Now why would a scum Vivax bother with such a post and then shoot Marv in the face? Unless Marv was shot by some utterly insane vigi (I had him fairly clearly town in my spreadsheet), but then the NKs don't add up. Seems to me Marv was shot by scum (makes perfect sense, as an active townie-looking player with a good reputation), so how does a scum-Vivax make a case on Marv and then shoot him. These two actions don't make sense. The first one from either scum or town point of view, the second one from a scum point of view (from a town point of view it's just a really bad read). These make me unsure of Vivax as scum. However, the rest of the case still points to a scummy Vivax. Given Katina and Hyaach's behaviour (thanks for pointing that one out, also flew under my radar), I'm going to give Vivax the benefit of the doubt for now. @Vivax: I still want a better answer on the case than "lol, a stupid townie is burying your case under a pile of spam". I'm still not sure you're scum. Then some of my other town reads started speaking in defense of Vivax: NSH and austinmcc reinforcing the points I made, so I was really starting to doubt my earlier read. As for my accepting his reasoning on Twelve? 1. I still wasn't (and still am not) convinced either way on Vivax. So I wanted to hear what he had to say, but I doubted he'd change my mind, because I was really confident in the case I made on Twelve (+ Show Spoiler [here] + On July 05 2012 03:02 Acrofales wrote: On July 05 2012 01:53 Vivax wrote: You can skip the whole thing if it mindfucks you. I'll break it down to my intentions based on that reasoning: ##Vote for people I downright disagree on your policy, but the list you come up with corresponds to mine. I don't like a grush lynch, but it's mainly meta (he's playing the same as in space station where I blew him up and he flipped town). Other people have referenced LV and I agree that there he played far more actively. No clue how to read him and it seems like a coinflip. I have him with kurumi, casualman, majuju and adam: I'd bet my life that there's scum in that list, but fucked if I know how many or which ones. If there's still a vig with bullets he should be shooting into this list, though. DT should also be checking these, because I have given up trying to get a read from their posts. I actually find your whole logic on the policy completely topsy turvy and it also doesn't agree with your conclusions. Twelve, Katina and ET all have filters that are readable. They can be analyzed. We can analyze the cases made against them too. That gives us information to work with to unravel the rest of the team. Eventually we'll have to deal with the lurker team, but with, hopefully, some aid from vigis and DTs we won't have to lynch all six of them (we don't have time anyway). Now onto scumhunting: ET and Katina are the only two who have changed since last we chatted. Katina is here and posting. She seems unconcerned about getting lynched, which is more townie than scum. Then again, I was just told in SSB that reactions are the easiest thing to fake for scum. Still on the fence. ET has steadily been rising. The more I read his filter the more I see reasons for scum to post the way he does and the less it appears to be townie. His utter lack of defense against the cases raised against him, and his failure to do any scumhunting today despite the promise are making him look scummier every time I look at it. But Twelve is a better lynch, imho. There are just too many contradictions and coincidences in his filter. #ITEM No. 1 On July 04 2012 15:15 Twelve wrote: I'm still thinking on this. I think casualman probably still our most likely scum lynch. I'll get back to you tomorrow morning on the info lynch. I'm not feeling the casualman lynch as a scum lynch. I hate associative cases before we flip someone, but with Katina and Twelve both pushing casualman it just feels like the easy townie that is being thrown in front of the truck by the scumteam. I also don't buy his "most likely scum lynch": it's a coinflip. No. The most likely scumflip is Twelve. #ITEM No. 2 On July 04 2012 10:13 Twelve wrote: @Acrofales + Show Spoiler + On July 04 2012 06:01 Acrofales wrote: Okay. I've read Twelve's filter and some of the points brought up about him. I now have a top 3 people I want to lynch. Twelve has some stuff that reads like scum. Compilation of the cases: I don't know why Mattchew is making connection cases based on not-yet-flipped people, but of the two I think Twelve is more likely to flip scum and I think this case sums up his D1 behaviour. Twelve's defense consists mainly of "it was a joke" and some discussion about what a bandwagon is, which seemed okay when I hadn't read his filter and only saw the case in a list of scum. Now I'm no longer convinced. + Show Spoiler [Twelve's defense] + On July 02 2012 04:55 Twelve wrote: @Mattchew haha where to start... My first post that you quote was from before the game even started, so it probably shouldn't be taken to seriously. I simply don't know anyone here and was trying to start a conversation. The fact that you see a contradiction is also puzzling I can sort of see how it could be misinterpreted that I was saying "I am all for the hatred of bandwagons" but thats not what I was saying. In fact I was saying the opposite, I was asking to be clued in so I could join a bandwagon, but this was largely a joke. Suffice to say, anything I said before the game officially started probably shouldn't concern town too much. I do take issue with your use of the word band wagon though, upon reading the thread I found both BKE and Kurumi extremely suspicious, regardless of other players posts, and made my thoughts known. BKE says alot while conveying extremely little actual information, appearing to be helpful but really just mixing the pot. Kurumi writes long winded, somewhat schizophrenic sounding poems to his co-workers that are about as informative as a fortune cookie. I don't to see a vote count or FOS: BKE FOS:Kurumi for my brain to begin forming conclusions. As for the cutesy yuck bit, he seemed pretty angry that I would vote in the vote in the voting thread without warning him, so I tried to keep things light (read: I wrote something much ruder but thought better of it and decided to kill him with niceness :D) As far as calling out casualman, I tried very hard to think of any strategic reason a town would vote for themselves and I could think of none. I had the same issue with VE voting for himself, but voted unvoted in the same post, sort of like lowering and raising a supply depot while you wait for your rax to build i guess, so I really don't have a problem with it going under the radar. Bugs suggested this about his apeshit behaviour at night: I don't really see a reason why a townie would call someone godfather. Scum pushing a townie, or scum distancing himself from an actual godfather are both better explanations. I seem to remember there being another case against Twelve which was the one that actually made him blip on my scumdar, but I cannot find it. Anyway, yeah. I'm still not completely sure about Vivax, Katina has gone awol again. Lets kill Twelve. ##unvote ##vote Twelve I am curious why you are quoting Mattchew to make your case against me. Mattchew never had a case against me, it never had any traction, He misread a post from before the game ever started and tried to point out my "contradictions". Ridiculousness. The reason I said what I said about NoSmurfHere was because I wanted to get my notes out to a detective in case I died. Maybe indicative of newbieness, but I didn't want to die and not be able to say anything else. Finally, would you mind revisiting your scumdar and finding an actual case against me? I'll gladly answer any further questions. I had quoted Mattchew's case mainly for its second point, which was the HORRID reasoning around his BKE vote. The first point seemed adequately explained by s0lstice as Mattchew failing reading comprehension, but the reasoning around Twelve's vote was terrible and Mattchew called him out on it. However, that doesn't really matter. The problem is with the bolded part in the reply. This reads to me like a scum who had dodged a bullet. Unfortunately for Twelve, Mafia doesn't work like that and now Mattchew's read is gaining traction. He panicked and tried to wave it off. Yes, the first part of the case was crap, but the second point was valid, and still is. Dismissing half the post as bullshit doesn't make the other half bullshit too. ITEM No. 3 His night behaviour. How the hell do you go from "he's scum" to "he's the godfather" without some kind of prior knowledge. I don't get it and no matter how many times Twelve tells me it was a "noobie mistake" I still won't get it. In closing, Twelve is scum and should die for his sins. ##vote Twelve for reinforcement, my vote is already in the right spot 2. His reasoning made sense: it actually was the EXACT same reason for why I backed off a Vivax lynch. I said that here: + Show Spoiler [doubt about Twelve] + On July 05 2012 05:19 Acrofales wrote: On July 05 2012 04:43 Vivax wrote: Cause Twelve suspected Bugs, who wasn't under pressure at the time, and rastaban. The guy who got killed by mafia. I wouldn't understand the actions from a scum point of view. There's a lot of talk about ET already. Take the way he tries to influence bandwagons without reads. I have to say that I missed that bit from Twelve. Let me take another look, it could be a mistake, but you're right, there's something wonky there. In fact, it's the same reason why I started to think you weren't scum after all, lol. I have to say that twelve's posts are harder to make sense of. It's not so much a case as a conspiracy theory. I'll have to think about it. On July 05 2012 05:50 Acrofales wrote: Okay. Gone over the whole passage and it's a giant contradiction. I can't make sense of this. Just gonna post it in case someone else can make sense of the screwball logic that is happening here: First relevant post, when Twelve goes all paranoid theory: [spoiler] On July 03 2012 06:43 Twelve wrote: I'm hesitant to post this,but I have a feeling I may be killed tonight, and a REALLY strong feeling NoSmurfHere WILL NOT be Mafia killed tonight. I made a list of people who jumped on the mKmKmK lynch as I felt it was just an attempt of mafia to get a townie lurker lynched. As I went through the list of names using their filters, I came to some tentative conclusions. My current read is that if there is a Ringleader in this game (godfather), it is NoSmurfHere. + Show Spoiler + NoSmurfHere New Zealand. July 01 2012 10:25 Also your belief in "proof" probably suggests you shouldn't be playing mafia, given that most accurate reads are not based on anything anywhere close to proof. I feel he may be breadcrumbing for a detective role check. It was just a note next to his name when I Look at the interaction between NoSmurfHere and rastaban. After NoSmurfHere starts the bandwagon against mKmKmK(a lurker lynch I really didn't agree with), he seems very interested in a role claim from NoSmurfHere, perhaps trying to get a detective to waste a night and make a really dangerous "confirmed towny". + Show Spoiler + On July 01 2012 00:53 rastaban wrote: Is he trying to link Bugs and Rastaban as scum members? He quotes Rastaban talking with EchelonTee about Bugs's VT roleclaim and says he's quoting an exchange between Rastaban and Bugs. At the time, I read this as him saying Rastaban or mK was a town DT who Bugs was trying to poke into checking him at night. I also didn't read Rastaban's post as him saying someone should check Bugs at night, but rather someone should check mK. So this whole thing confused me and all I got from that was "he says bugs is scum, but out-wifoms himself and says he's the godfather". That has two explanations: he's scum and knows bugs will look like town, or he's a townie out-wifoming himself who really thinks bugs is scumslipping his godfather role (as marvellosity seemed to think). What I didn't get from it was the theory of Bugs+Rastaban scumbuddies. The follow-up at daytime: + Show Spoiler + On July 04 2012 09:39 Twelve wrote: Alright I'm going to try and clarify some things since apparently I didn't explain myself very coherently. On the Foxtrotter swtich - I had just got a scummy read on foxtrotter out of the thread. I checked the voting thread and saw that a large bandwagon had formed on him. When I went to find out why there was such a huge swing of votes towards him, I noticed that I had less then 1 hour to vote. Instead of figuring out exactly how much time I had I just "ninja" switched in both threads. On saying "soooo, i guess i'll shut up :D " - I had just posted a ridiculous conspiracy theory/rant against NoSmurfHere. I still think he is scum, but it was a bad way to present the information. Anyways, pretty much every single thing I wrote turned out to be false. NoSmurfHere cannot be ringleader because BM was the Ringleader. Rastaban cannot be NoSmurfHere's mafia partner because Rastaban turned up green. Once i knew the facts, I felt silly for posting my theory, and offered to shut up. So this could be the fantastic failing of a scumplan and him covering it up. Or it could be a townie explaining how his giant conspiracy theory just failed spectacularly. I think this needs to be sorted out before we lynch Twelve and I am kinda backing down from my case. The rest of his filter is still terrible, but I agree that this whole conspiracy theory into backpedalling is too fucking weird to see from a scum mindset from my point of view. [b]##unvote for now. I don't think I was easily convinced either time. I spent a LOT of time poring over those filters and those two completely unprovoked cases against someone who scum was planning on shooting anyway make no sense at all and just makes them look scummy.Should I maybe not put so much stock in it? Maybe, but it's really skewing my reads in favour of them. | ||
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Bugs, I've already explained why I was so "sure" in my case. It was an experiment in changing up my style a bit. Apparently it didn't work too well. Anyway, I won't be "active" scum for much longer, because I'll be away all weekend. I am down with lynching Grush. Still deciding between him and BKE, because my vote will stay where it's put. What do people think of BKE now? Let me repeat my points on him: BKE: flew under my radar in D2 by being active, but on a second look through his reads are really on the usual suspects and he just sorta sheeps with enough content to seem like he's contributing while rehashing other people's arguments. Then goes afk and comes back to tell off everybody for lynching ET. Not sure why he ever dropped off my scumdar. Want to lynch. | ||
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On July 06 2012 11:03 NoSmurfHere wrote: also: I didn't express it very clearly yesterday or last night, but I think Acro could be an active scum. The active is highlighted with quotation marks, because of: On July 05 2012 04:34 Acrofales wrote: Just got confirmation from Wiggles that I can stay in the game. Just a heads up to the thread: I will be gone from Friday afternoon/evening until Sunday late at night. This, of course, is devastating news to all you guys, but I won't care because I'll be getting drunk and watching bulls slaughter tourists who think they can outrun them in Pamplona. I'll make sure my vote is on scum on Friday when I leave and pray I live through the night, so I can join you again on Monday and win this game for town! I wasn't kidding, I have about 3 hours, then my vote will be on someone I think is scum and then I'm leaving for the weekend. I'm okay with lynching Grush, not with Katina atm. I just really think people should take another look at BKE. | ||
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##vote BroodkingEXE | ||
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It also gives me a kinda unique position now in that I feel more like an observer than a player of the last day. So to start off my playing again I am going to post the kind of thing I usually hate posting. A list. The Scumteam Twelve - I'll just copypaste Bugs's bit here. + Show Spoiler [Why 12 is scum] + On July 08 2012 08:57 NoSmurfHere wrote: 1. Twelve never switched his vote off BKE and never actually took a concrete stance on the issue. He simply chose to disappear during the mess in which I was hardcore tunneling and pressuring Katina. While I was forcing slips out of Katina I noted two posts and vowed that town should not forget them. I bring them up once more now: Note that after this, Twelve never came back. He never switched his vote and he never took a stance. He never switched his vote off BKE, and he asked if there was another DT that could verify Hyaach's claims (INCREDIBLY scummy). Why on earth would a townie try to out two blues at once? Definitely not the response I would've expected any town player to make, and definitely something that can be reasonably explained from a scum perspective. Twelve is almost certainly scum and any vigis still alive should shoot the crap out of him. I know I backed off him because of the whole Rastaban deal, but I've changed my mind. It was just scum playing weirdly/suboptimally and I fell for it. Lynch today! Grush - I don't have much to distinguish him from casualman. Both are completely useless trolls. However, Katina was very vocal on the matter. Casualman scum, Grush town. With the flip, I think we should not ignore this beautiful softdefense on Grush. She stuck by her scumbuddy until the very very end. + Show Spoiler [Katina champions grush] + On July 07 2012 11:11 Katina wrote: What seperates them is that grush has posts where he actually says something. While casualman goes in active for almost the whole game and pops in to insult people or say "let's lynch this guy!!" I admit I have overlooked grush and a few other people this game. There have been others I can get an actual read on and casualman is just too bad and getting ignored too much to be true. The third scumster I think we should look at this list of DT claim doubters. Yes, I have a really easy time coming in post-hoc when Katina has already flipped scum, but I did read the thread chronologically, so didn't know for sure Katina had flipped scum. The claim seemed believable: he has a green check on the primary lynch target and a red check on someone else. He didn't make any fancy stuff around it, just said it as it was: he's the DT and got a red check on Katina. However, scum clearly had a good reason to discredit the check and save their godfather, so lets look at who doubted the claim:
MajuGarzett - I had a null read on him. It got a bit better with him hunting down Katina, but it's still largely null: I wouldn't be surprised if a scum got on the Katina bus early to avoid the spotlight attention, even if she was the roleblocker. Mandalor - yes, he had the whole Katina hating him thing going on, but Katina's push never really took off and he has been safe despite the cases she made. This makes me think it could just be two scumsters distancing each other. His whole behaviour around the Katina thing is awkward, talking about there being no need to frame her because her reads were bad. I don't get this at all: scum don't care about reads when framing, they care about who the DT will check and Katina was a good target for the check. So he jumps on the Katina wagon, but has some really awkward reasoning for doing so. Add this to his rather poor filter for the rest of the game. The only thing I don't like is that his only consistent scumspects throughout the game has been Twelve. Twelve is almost certainly scum. Unless he is really into bussing his buddies, he's probably town based on this. casualman - still unreadable. Probably town based on the Katina link, but could be distancing for all I know, because like the case on mandalor, casualman was never in any danger from Katina's play. The Townies Acro - confirmed town, imho! Hyaach - barring any really strange shenanigans where Hyaach is a scum fakeclaiming a DT and bussing his roleblocker buddy (instead of a goon) and claiming a greencheck on someone else, Hyaach is a town DT. Given that I like Ockham's razor, that makes Hyaach a town DT. If they really did concoct this plan, then I will nominate it for best scum plan, but for now I'll treat it as a town play by a town DT, which makes Hyaach town. BKE, ShiaoPi - by extension BKE and ShiaoPi are also town. One of them *might* be a godfather, but I will treat them as town, despite their scummy play. Yes, I realize ShiaoPi is in this list twice. No, I don't care! ghost_403 - vig shot a scumster. Given that scumKP seems accounted for I think we can safely assume he's a town vig. Vivax - despite him trying to connect everyone and everything, I think he has cleaned up his play alot and I liked him in the whole play around Katina. I am going to tentatively call him townie. And that was everybody. @VE: I know you asked Kurumi, but the answer seems kinda obvious. There's KP missing from D2, so scum probably knew there was a medic. They wifom'd their wifom around a wifom and figured the medic would probably protect the DT, so they shot someone else instead. Shooting Bugs was pretty much a no-brainer. Mattchew is experienced, maybe they got a whiff of blue? Maybe they just wanted to shoot another experienced townie before endgame Who really knows why scum do shit anyway. And finally: ##vote Twelve | ||
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On July 10 2012 07:30 ghost_403 wrote: By the way, Acro, I'm not giving you confirmed town status in my book. FYI. <3 I guess that's just the way things work. I'd send you my role pm, but it's against the rules Loan me a gun and I'll shoot scum! | ||
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On July 10 2012 17:25 Mandalor wrote: I wanted to see if someone bites. Noone did except Wiggl3s :/ Okay, I'll bite now. What were you trying to achieve with that post? You say you were trying to get people to "bite", but it is full of contradictions, nonsense and martyring. What was the follow-up you planned if someone "bit"? Your response to wiggl3s is to say that Mattchew is just plain bad and you say you want to try to stop town from sheeping Mattchew. However, my understanding of the Foxtrotter lynch was that it was led by Marvelosity, not Mattchew. All Mattchew did was make a list and add Foxtrotter to it. Mattchew only really gained any traction later. So why were you so scared of Mattchew? + Show Spoiler [wiggl3s' and Mandalor's co…] + On July 02 2012 17:41 drwiggl3s wrote: Also (sorry for some spam here) @ Mandalor. You say we should lynch someone listed in Mattchew's analysis. Yet in the same post you say his analysis is "hilariously bad". I propose that his list is all town. See how it excludes BKexe for example? On July 02 2012 17:53 Mandalor wrote: I agree. However, he's orchestrating town's play right now. He gave literally no reason for the Foxtrotter lynch, yet 9 people jump on the boat and the guy is lynched. I don't think the voters are all mafia. I'd be surprised if there's more than two mafia voting for foxtrotter. Sooo, obviously he holds a lot of weight. I guess he played well in the last mafia games. Best possible scenario is town ignores what he says and we actually kill a red. But I don't think that's going to happen. Both of us just don't hold a lot of weight. You're either a smurf or this really is your first game. And the last mafia game I played is so long ago, I don't think I've played with anyone in this before. | ||
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On July 11 2012 02:43 Twelve wrote: EBWOP: I'm feeling pretty discouraged and almost didn't bother making this post but I still want to win. Please ask yourself if there is a better vote for today. Clearly a majority has a scummy read on me, but what kind of information will you actually gain if(when) i flip green. Most of the people pushing for me are town in my notes so I'm not really sure what town is gonna gain once my lights go out. Anyways, ill be around till lynch time, but if there isnt much additional development from anyone else, I won't have much else to say. Well, if you're really town, which I really doubt, you could update your list of reads. If you're going to flip scum, don't bother as I am not going to waste time wifom'ing it up about why you marked someone scum or town. | ||
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@Vivax: I'm not sure how your connection case works for confirming me, yourself and kurumi town. I am quite obviously confirmed town, but please explain your reasoning. I'm not ready to accept Kurumi as town, especially not after this flip: my town reads on everybody have taken a dent and I wasn't convinced about Kurumi's townieness in the first place. Will be rereading filters. | ||
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On July 11 2012 08:59 Vivax wrote: @ Acro Really? Don't you remember the moment you and Kurumi saved twelve from getting lynched when you switched your vote to ET along with me? Please tell me which scum player would prefer one mislynch only over a mislynch and a modkill of two townies. Not gonna try and wifom why scum would do it, but honestly I don't see much difference. If scum was confident they could push for a Twelve mislynch later in the game, why not waste 2 mislynches? Nevertheless, I don't actually think scum masterminded this mislynch, and it was all on us. Nobody had to push the case today, it was already there and ready for us after last night. With nobody pushing alternative cases, everybody just shut up and there was little useful discussion. Lets not do the same tomorrow. I still want to kill Grush, mainly based on Katina pushing for casualman. At the same time she pushed casualman, she completely ignored grush, despite the two having very similar behaviour this game. Now this is the kind of associative connection case I can work with. However, there are 2 other members of team scum that we need to find, and time is slowly running out. I'll be filtering today and seeing if I missed something in my list yesterday, and updating my spreadsheet with the information that Twelve is town. I suggest everybody else does the same and we actually discuss stuff tomorrow. | ||
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On July 11 2012 19:52 Vivax wrote: The credit for this mislynch goes to katina for defending Twelve. Looked a bit through the filters: - casualman asked for a VE lynch all the time. Katina kept asking for a vote on casu, katina also defended twelve. So I'd expect casu to be a possible scum member too, since katina's actions were one-way-WIFOMS imo. Defending town, attacking scum. Based on what do you draw this conclusion? This can equally well be spun the other way round and it is really dangerous to use this kind of reasoning. Katina *should* have enough experience to lead us either way on this. The reason I found Twelve scummy wasn't Katina defending him so much as him defending Katina. Turns out that connection was false too. However, if you believe what you say, why do you not follow up with this logic? Why do you want to lynch Grush rather than casualman (or Mandalor)? I try to follow your logic, but you're making it REALLY hard :S - maju posted a case against katina when she was already set to be lynched. Maju is the type of guy who doesn't troll, keeps activity to a minimum, and doesn't post game changing information at timings where it would matter. He's more readable than grush and casualman cause he doesn't write derp things, but his play fits a scum role with what I could gain. Given that after all this time I still have a pretty null read on Maju, I agree with this assessment. He is either scum who is flying neatly under the radar or town who does not give a fuck. Distinguishing between the two is really hard to do and I don't know what side of the fence Maju falls. Katina has a "soft attack" on Maju when ghost asks her what she thinks, but I read it mainly as her voicing what ghost wants to hear, rather than an actual opinion. Ghost, what is your opinion of the exchange, and Maju in general? | ||
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On July 07 2012 08:13 ghost_403 wrote: @NSH: AFAIK, grush hasn't actually played any games as scum. He trolls a lot no matter what. I would think he would troll less if he rolled scum. He seems to be trolling more this game. We'll have to keep an eye on him. Do you still think that? Why? If you think Grush is town, then who do you think we should lynch tomorrow? For the record, did you find any scum games by Grush? He was town in Bastard 2 and Space Station as well. Really hard to meta game him. I still want to lynch grush based on these things: Item 1 On July 08 2012 01:54 grush57 wrote: No one claimed getting roleblocked, Katina has been getting pressured a lot, so there IS a good chance he got framed. NSH says he was trapping for this: a scum who knew more about the roles than he should. It could equally well be speculation, but it definitely IS a defense of Katina. Item 2 On July 07 2012 11:11 Katina wrote: What seperates them is that grush has posts where he actually says something. While casualman goes in active for almost the whole game and pops in to insult people or say "let's lynch this guy!!" I admit I have overlooked grush and a few other people this game. There have been others I can get an actual read on and casualman is just too bad and getting ignored too much to be true. Honestly, if Grush is town I see no reason for Katina to defend him like this, except very very maybe to be able to say post-hoc "I told you so". Trying to make sense of connections to Katina is hard, though. She fingered Adam as town, but she fingered Twelve and ShiaoPi as town too. We've already screwed up on Twelve and would probably have screwed up with ShiaoPi too if Hyaach's green check hadn't cleared him. As for casualman? I've got even less of a read on him. It's pathetic really. | ||
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Out of the two, I favour grush for reasons above, but I want to hear your opinion. More generally, I want more opinions from you. You've been really really quiet and that is just really really out of character for you (regardless of alignment). | ||
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On July 12 2012 08:12 Vivax wrote: Kurumi, would you go for maju or grush first? Grush's scum defense is scummy. Maju's overall behavior is scummy. I'd lynch em both, but the readable scummy player first. I was coming up with a long argument about 4 scenarios in which each possibility (scum/scum, town/town, scum/town, town/scum) was considered and explain why it's better to lynch the unreadable guy first, when I realized we were being stupid (not saying my scenarios didn't work out, because they did; it's just a terrible way to decide the lynch). We should not be considering Grush and Maju together as if it's a packet lynch. We should decide which of the two is scummier and lynch the crap out of him. My arguments above still stand: Grush is scum. ##vote grush57 | ||
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@casualman: On July 08 2012 11:19 casualman wrote: also, i reiterate that ve and acro are scum. i might make a post day 3 if i feel assed to. Make that damned case already, it's 2 days overdue. | ||
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On July 12 2012 18:33 Vivax wrote: And what would you do with maju if grush flips town? Automatically assume he is scum? No. What an absurd question. I'll do the same as I'm doing now. Look for who I think is scum and try to get him lynched. If that is Maju, then I will try to get him lynched. Lots may change in 72 hours. However, let me flip that question: why do you feel Maju and Grush's alignments are linked? What makes you think one of them is scum and the other town, rather than both scum or both town? Actually, your whole question is giving me a nasty feeling as if you know something I don't. | ||
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I have said before why I think Grush is scummier than Maju. I might be tunneling a bit and will try to broaden my vision and look at other people (particularly VE, and I also don't like the look of Mandalor), but between Grush and Maju, I find the association case on Grush strong enough to lynch him. I also think the argument that we should lynch him before we hit lylo quite convincing, because at least there's a chance Maju will come out to play at lylo. Grush is going to continue to spam retarded shit until we lynch him or the game ends (honestly, I can't imagine scum doing us the favour of shooting him even if he's town). Maju on the other hand is a lurker whose posts make sense. The more he posts, the better I feel the chance of getting a solid read on him is. Points in favour of scum: he's an active lurker, the favourite hiding place of lots of scum (including Maju, looking at his previous games). Points in favour of town: he seems to be trying to scumhunt and make up his own mind about the lynches in some of his posts, rather than just sheeping mindlessly. I feel the former point is stronger than the latter (because the latter can clearly be faked by scum), so yeah, there's a good chance of him flipping scum. However, there are townies that lurk like mad too (Erandorr comes to mind). For these reasons I feel it's better to leave Maju alive to post more (and hopefully get a conclusive read on him), and lynch Grush. If not Grush, I feel even VE would be a better lynch than Maju. His actions around the whole Katina/Hyaach event are highly suspicious and since then he has basically disappeared. If it was anybody other than VE I would've been pushing his lynch HARD. I'm of half a mind to do so anyway and encourage everybody to read his filter. Mandalor is also looking pretty terrible: the only reason I moved him off my probable scum list was because I thought that his pushing twelve didn't make sense from a scum perspective. Then twelve flipped town, so we're back to scratch on that. That makes 4 scumspects and a casualman. Kurumi and Vivax are moved onto my town list by merit of everybody else looking worse, not because either looks particularly good. I want OTHER PEOPLE to join the discussion and talk about today's lynch... and players in general. | ||
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Also: mind explaining your behaviour surrounding the DT check on Katina. You still haven't commented on it: On July 09 2012 18:33 Acrofales wrote: VE - I had an early town read on VE based on our fight with BM. However, I slowly cooled on VE when he picked a fight with Bugs (or Bugs with him). Yes, they both backed down, but the whole thing left me feeling wary. His behaviour around the DT check seems to be trying to get Katina to give him a way out of bussing him. A lot of questions for Katina. He could be trying to sort his mind out, or hoping people start agreeing with him. Also note that despite his doubt of the DT, he doesn't actually want to lynch him. Doubting the DT: + Show Spoiler [Hyaach doesn't read like a DT] + On July 07 2012 14:01 VisceraEyes wrote: Hyaach doesn't read at all like a DT with checks until recently. Like, I don't see Hyaach defending BKE like he has a green check on him. Not even guarded...like, he mentions BKE and comes to his defense once or twice, but not convincingly like he has a town read on him even. Ugh...and BKE as a check N1, I don't get that at all. Like, he wasn't reading suspicious of BKE at all, so checking him doesn't really make sense. Would anyone guess that he checked BKE if Hyaach had, for instance, been shot N2? Or that he checked Katina N2? I'm just struggling with the whole thing and need more time. :/ On July 08 2012 02:34 VisceraEyes wrote: I can lynch casual instead of Katina. Just sayin. I'd also be down with lynching grush. As town, you either think the DT is lying and lynch him, or you believe the DT and lynch his red check (unless you have really good reason to believe his check was framed, but VE does not consider this). As scum, however, you want people to doubt the DT, but not lynch him! The DT would flip green and then his target would be lynched the next day. Instead you want to keep the wifom alive and lynch someone completely unrelated, such as, for instance, casualman. As for your question: Katina was on casualman's case quite a bit before the red check. It is possible she was distancing from her scumbuddy and turned that into a bus attempt, but I am not confident in that connection. You could see it either way and speculating on what Katina was doing is not going to help us much here, I'm afraid. I feel the connection to Grush is quite a bit more solid. | ||
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On July 13 2012 07:54 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm waiting to hear what Acro thinks of the case besides "Hmmmm let me ponder" The fact that he thinks I'm playing and analyzing is moot if he disagrees with my case and just saying that and disappearing is not contributory. You posted your case just as I was going to bed. Here's the follow-up. There was something bugging you about your case when I read it and it was mainly that my OWN opinion of NSH also changed during N1 (from trolly null to leaning town). The main thing that allowed me to get something of a read on him, was him breaking cover just to be able to make a meta-case on Katina. It seemed unlikely behaviour from a scum WBG to break cover just for that. Add BM flipping scum and NSH agitating to kill him and he went from null to "leaning town" in a few hours. However, I went back into Maju's filter and looked over the timestamps of when he wanted to lynch NSH: the post stating he wanted to lynch NSH was late N1 AFTER Bugs had jumped out of the closet. The second post defending NSH was fairly early in D2. The only thing of significance that happened was BM flipping scum. Nevertheless, that is not the reason Maju gives for his flip of opinion. Changing one's opinion is not really scummy, it's changing it for no real reason. In this case I am of two minds: there was a decent reason for changing reads on NSH, but it's not the one Maju mentioned. It could be carelessness, but Ockham's razor seems to fall on the side of scum: he already knew NSH was town and the opinion in the thread was swinging to NSH being town... so he pulled that shoddy reason out of a hat for "changing his opinion". TLDR: now that I've pondered I agree that there's something to the case. ##unvote ##vote MajuGarzett | ||
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I do still like a grush lynch too. Your case made me think the chance of Maju flipping scum was higher than Grush, but honestly I think there's a good chance of both being scum. Advantage of a grush lynch is that we get one of the more coinflippy players out of the way too. In fact, I think this is a pretty good hypothesis. Grush and Maju are both scum. In that case, I want grush dead first. ##unvote ##vote Grush57 | ||
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On July 12 2012 17:16 Acrofales wrote: Oh, one more thing: @casualman: Make that damned case already, it's 2 days overdue. At the rest of town: I know now is a pretty bad time to propose a policy lynch on this guy, but his actions all game have been retarded and I hate that this kind of play is tolerated in TL Mafia. It's a coinflip lynch and I feel both grush and maju have a greater chance of flipping scum atm, but it just galls me to leave this guy be. | ||
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On July 14 2012 00:32 grush57 wrote: now i'm naked, nothing but an animal but can you fake it, for just one more show and what do you want, i want to change and what have you got when you feel the same I can translate this: it says "I am scum. Please lynch me!" I for one am happy to oblige. Who else wants to lynch grush? PS. Yeah, the thing about casualman was more venting about his shitty filter. I honestly think even grush has contributed more... at least grush has contributed enough to look scummy! Lets lynch!!! | ||
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Your question got me thinking about the lack of resistance, so I went back to the voting history and found that there was a lot of discussion of how grush is scum, but no actual votes: + Show Spoiler [night posts about grush] + On July 11 2012 19:52 Vivax wrote: The credit for this mislynch goes to katina for defending Twelve. Looked a bit through the filters: - casualman asked for a VE lynch all the time. Katina kept asking for a vote on casu, katina also defended twelve. So I'd expect casu to be a possible scum member too, since katina's actions were one-way-WIFOMS imo. Defending town, attacking scum. - maju posted a case against katina when she was already set to be lynched. Maju is the type of guy who doesn't troll, keeps activity to a minimum, and doesn't post game changing information at timings where it would matter. He's more readable than grush and casualman cause he doesn't write derp things, but his play fits a scum role with what I could gain. - grushs readable posts: Also, he voted for 5 townies and then katina before re-voting twelve. It was impossible to save katina from that claim, so there's been scum voting for her 100%. grush defended katina + bm so far. Right now I'd go for grush, then maju. Btw, WHO HAS BEEN ROLEBLOCKED before katina died? We indeed had noone claiming a RB yet. On July 12 2012 00:08 Acrofales wrote: Ghost, you seem to think Grush is a town troll? The most salient mention of grush in your filter seems to be: Do you still think that? Why? If you think Grush is town, then who do you think we should lynch tomorrow? For the record, did you find any scum games by Grush? He was town in Bastard 2 and Space Station as well. Really hard to meta game him. I still want to lynch grush based on these things: Item 1 NSH says he was trapping for this: a scum who knew more about the roles than he should. It could equally well be speculation, but it definitely IS a defense of Katina. Item 2 Honestly, if Grush is town I see no reason for Katina to defend him like this, except very very maybe to be able to say post-hoc "I told you so". Trying to make sense of connections to Katina is hard, though. She fingered Adam as town, but she fingered Twelve and ShiaoPi as town too. We've already screwed up on Twelve and would probably have screwed up with ShiaoPi too if Hyaach's green check hadn't cleared him. As for casualman? I've got even less of a read on him. It's pathetic really. On July 12 2012 00:32 Kurumi wrote: I dislike casualman because of my gut related to RoL's play in one of the games (he was feigning AFK while being Mafia Poisoner, voted 2 minutes before the deadline and avoided lynch that way because everyone thought that he was going to get modkilled...) and the "what would host do" WIFOM and he never voted Katina. His vote was on VE for like two or three days now. But oh well. I think grush will flip scum. Defended confirmed scum, defended by confirmed scum, reluctant to vote scum, nothing of substance in his play, we know he is around but doesn't contribute. I know where my vote goes tomorrow. On July 12 2012 00:55 VisceraEyes wrote: Same, grush is the scums, he's got my vote tomorrow. On July 12 2012 07:17 VisceraEyes wrote: Coin-flippy is better now - can't keep coin-flippy alive at lylo. I want to lynch into Grush/Casual tomorrow. Neither of them are to be alive at LYLO. If we're beyond that point and they're both town, we lose. Simple as that. Most of this is before Maju decided to play his horribly obvious active lurking trick on us, but still. The people who are active and posting in this thread all voiced their opinions to kill Grush. Vivax kinda changed his opinion after Maju's action, but the rest never changed. Along roles day and suddenly everybody wants to kill Maju. This got me thinking more about the reluctance to follow through on the grush kill than on the maju switch. Ghost was the one to suggest we lynch Maju and ShiaoPi followed through on it. A confirmed (dead) townie and someone with a green check on him. I am willing to believe the initial push on Maju was town, but I can't help but feel there was some scum in helping it along and moving the suspicion off grush. This could have two reasons: 1. They're both scum, but with grush being one of the first to vote majuju he'd gain some town credit. 2. Grush is scum and Maju is town and scum is pushing a mislynch on majuju. However, it could be for a third reason: Maju is scum, Grush is who knows what and scum is shit scared of acting to defend their buddy, because it's highly unlikely it'll help much anyway. If we look at the Katina lynch, the two most avid defender of Katina was Twelve and he flipped town, so fuck knows what scum is doing this game. Of course, all of this is highly speculative, which is why I didn't actually want to post it, because it's a useless case. However, you wanted to know why I'm voting grush? It's because I feel the chance is larger that grush is scum than maju based on my gut feeling about how the game is playing out. | ||
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We need to take that into account, so Vivax, make up your mind and don't fucking flip a coin because I will revive ghost to shoot you in the face. | ||
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Now is the kind of time I wish the HTML blink tag worked on TL: CASUALMAN, GET BACK HERE AND VOTE unless you're scum, then please do us all a favour and get modkilled | ||
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Anyway, the last day was rather hilarious. Scum pushing for killing their scumbuddy and all town wanted to do was kill their town friend. We really really tried to bus grush too. Why you no listen? Anyway, I'm drunk and going to bed. GG scumteam!!! | ||
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I'm glad nobody noticed my GIGANTIC scum slip. I may have snuck by because it got posted by kingdedede instead of my main account, but here it is: On July 06 2012 08:23 kingdedede wrote: <snip> Grush: I probably shouldn't be transferring reads from one game to another, but I think he's scum in SSB and I think he's playing the exact same style in this game... a sort of trolly lurker style. I like the lynch. <snip> At the time I posted this it was fairly innocent and I thought it was decent, but I completely forgot that I was just ACTING townie in SSB and was actually scum. That game ended way sooner than this one and the kingdedede+cephiro scumteam won the game. If anybody who had looked at that game had stumbled upon this post it should've set massive red flags off: 1. I was scum in SSB, so KNEW grush was town. But, here I was saying grush looked like scum in that game, which I knew to be a blatant lie. 2. If I was lying about grush's alignment in SSB to make a case here, it must be with an agenda. An agenda to get someone lynched based on a lie is a scum agenda. I made the post and went to get ready for bed... as I was brushing my teeth I realized the giant blunder I had made, rushed back to the computer but there wasn't really anything I could do except pray it went unnoticed I then saw that I had made the post on kingdedede and crossed my thumbs for it getting snowed under before anybody paid any attention to it. Other than this rather big derp, I am quite happy with my play. Reasoning for nightkills: N1: marv replaced in for a complete inactive and in about 10 hours of game he created a happy town atmosphere. Yes, he led a mislynch, but he was active, incredibly townie and whipping town into shape. He just plain HAD to die. Rastaban was a (failed) blue snipe and s0lstice impressed us with his reads. At that point Mattchew did not yet look like he was playing very actively and Bugs had spent D1 trolling. N2: Bugs stopped trolling and got rather dangerous, austinmcc was making dangerous amounts of sense. The medic on Bugs was fairly obvious in retrospect, but this also confirmed the presence of a medic to us. N3: I wasn't there, but I think the idea was that the medic would be on the DT, so kurumi aimed at dangerous townies. We got lucky that Mattchew was the medic. I won't speak for the others, but I didn't have him pegged as blue. N4: with the medic out of the way we could easily take out the DT. It was also time to start murdering confirmed townies. What is going to happen with layabout? I have played with him before and never found him rude, but his behaviour N1 was, imho, really unacceptable. It's just so strange: was his account hacked or something? | ||
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All the large normals recently feel somewhat similar. It might be time to discuss the policy for setting up these games. I don't have any suggestions, though (I've been thinking about it, but it's a hard problem). | ||
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On July 15 2012 07:45 Kurumi wrote: Town loss is a scum win nonetheless. You're correct that town was the only reason we won, but please : we probably could get away with noone dying if not the Adam modkill, BM kill for being BM and Katina check. To be fair, Katina got checked because she was acting suspicious. It was a good check (and BKE and ShiaoPi were good checks too). BM getting shot was very predictable and a large factor in why I decided to distance (rather strongly) on D1. | ||
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On July 15 2012 08:20 Vivax wrote: Once Acro and Kurumi made that gambit defending a townie from a mislynch (which was quite a gamble), they had a bulletproof defense for lategame. At least for me, since I would never see scum renouncing on a mislynch. The only remaining options in lategame were maju and grush. Maju didn't even bother defending himself, everyone on the scumteam was pointing to grush, making him actually look less suspicious. This was quite nice play by scum, so I wouldn't take credit away from the scumteam, although they had casualman casting a lot of doubt at that stage of the game. You're doing it again: unless you weren't actually sharing your reads, you (nor anybody else really) had much suspicion of kurumi or myself. Therefore there was no way you could find grush less suspicious based on our votes. If grush had flipped red, THEN our push against him would've been a good bus. @austinmcc: are you talking about my switch off twelve? I thought my explanation was quite good. I mean... I backed off vivax for the exact same reason. I actually thought that through and figured that ignoring vivax would incriminate me slightly more than following a player I had marked as scum. I have to say that I would almost certainly play the same as town: if someone brings up a solid argument for why my scum target is town, I will take that argument into account regardless of my convictions about that player. Especially if it's the same argument I brought up earlier in defense of that player. | ||
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He means it sarcastically, saying layabout was a douchebag, not you. That said, layabout, I have played with you before and you've played perfectly normally and been civil, also to scum. I was playing a perfectly normal game and all I did was pressure you. Telling me to is shit and you know it. My post was perfectly civil and if you can't stand a bit of pressure from other players you should probably stop playing mafia. Your behaviour was not only rude, it screwed over town. Honestly, you getting modkilled for being a douche suited me and the rest of the scumteam just fine. | ||
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On July 16 2012 05:44 layabout wrote: So what? It may say "please be civil" but games in which people stick to that are a very rare thing. It also says "play to win" but that still gets ignored by a substantial number of players. So why flip out at me? I was being civil AND playing to win. If you get so frustrated that you feel compelled to make a post, then large games might just not be for you and you should stick to minis. This is completely separate from my earlier post where I feel something needs to be done about the level of trolling/lurking in the large size games. | ||
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@s0lstice: I think my play was better in SSB. There we actively disrupted town reads, whereas here we just sorta allowed town to run rampant and do whatever the hell they wanted, because we were never really in any danger (except for the DT check, and that got neutralized through equal parts of Kurumi's good intuition for the NKs and luck). | ||
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