Bastard Mafia 2

On June 17 2012 03:08 KharadBanar wrote:
This whole House Chezinu thing sounds really fishy to me. It's advertised as "all upside, no downside" but we have to claim our role and abilities to get in there, and pledge loyalty to players we don't know the alignment of.

In addition, Hiro says nothing about the organisational structure of the House, or if we get any rights/influence if we join, which normally means we don't get jack.

I am not at all convinced.

On June 17 2012 03:34 KharadBanar wrote:
I don't fully trust House Chezinu's intentions yet, but I would like to claim that I am not one of its enemies, and would be interested in an alliance, similar to Nisani201.

If this arrangement can be made, maybe we can talk about further deals in the future.

On June 17 2012 04:00 FourFace wrote:


Nah, but what happened here with you was that you knew this encrypted shiznit was for the birds and even anticipated the hosts response and snuck in a "I was mafia in bang bang so that's why i didn't post this shiznit there .. I'm town now so I post it this time" trying to hammer our subconscious into believing you are town after which you make up a story about KharadBanar to create a false buffer of opposition .. in contrast to your "obvious townieness" we should believe he's obviously scummy. A bold and aggressive tactic .. I think you're all crazy.

On June 17 2012 04:13 strongandbig wrote:
Talismania: I'm pretty sure Toad said in Bang Bang Mafia that you had posts typed out pregame, but would post them whether you were scum or town because they would gain you towncred. We've also seen in recent games (specifically, the recent pick your poison game) that when mafia think they can gain towncred by introducing a plan they tend to do so, even if that plan turns out to actually help town.

I'm with fourface - it seems a little bit suspicious to me that you would try to say "yeah I didn't post it that other game because I was scum but this game I'm town so go me."

If you actually played that way, you would be giving yourself away every time you decide not to post that same thing, everyone will think you're scum.

I think you're smart enough to know this. Therefore, there must be some times when you are scum but post that same little thing.

On June 17 2012 04:00 FourFace wrote:


Nah, but what happened here with you was that you knew this encrypted shiznit was for the birds and even anticipated the hosts response and snuck in a "I was mafia in bang bang so that's why i didn't post this shiznit there .. I'm town now so I post it this time" trying to hammer our subconscious into believing you are town after which you make up a story about KharadBanar to create a false buffer of opposition .. in contrast to your "obvious townieness" we should believe he's obviously scummy. A bold and aggressive tactic .. I think you're all crazy.

On June 17 2012 04:48 KharadBanar wrote:

I don't think we can get much information out of The HOUSE anyway, for the aforementioned reasons (their only advantage is information, so they're not going to give it to us for free).
This in turn leads me to the opinion that Drazerk is very much right in ignoring The HOUSE for now. I will do so from now on (I'll not play against HiroPro or his faction since we are allies, but I'm not going to mention them too much in my posting) and I believe it is wise for you to do the same.

On June 17 2012 04:53 HiroPro wrote:


We are House Chezinu, 5th Party. That is all I am permitted to say. Portals of the past may aid you in learning about us. The number of board members will not be released.

---

My personal win condition is to improve House Chezinu, 5th Party. Acceptable members joining obviously furthers this goal.

Your claimed win condition is compatible with House Chezinu, 5th Party. Anti-town forces possess killing power which can harm the members of House Chezinu, 5th Party and their removal is beneficial.

---

We are pleased to see the interest in joining and aiding House Chezinu, 5th Party. However, several individuals ask questions which can already be answered by reading the personal filter of Director of Recruitment/Funding HiroPro. Please do this.

I am taking a lunch break and will be back in ~45 minutes.

On June 17 2012 05:00 Nisani201 wrote:

Because I prefer to make friends, not enemies.

On June 17 2012 05:03 Nisani201 wrote:
Why don't I want friends?

My win condition is to kill anti-town people. If House Chezinu can help me with that then I want to be friends with them.

It's not like I'm permanently bound to them. If HiroPro does something stupid then I'll obviously break ties with him.

On June 17 2012 05:15 KharadBanar wrote:
[...]

By allying with The HOUSE, I essentially eliminate some of the players (both town and scum) from the equation and can concentrate on studying the remaining ones (which should contain both town and scum too, if my calculations are correct.)

[...]

On June 17 2012 05:24 KharadBanar wrote:

Think of the alliance as a temporary cooperative effort to eliminate scum players not participating in The HOUSE.

I am happy because we eliminate scum players, The HOUSE is happy because we eliminate non-HOUSE members.

When I grow suspicious there are no more non-HOUSE scum players in the game, I can cancel my cooperation with The HOUSE, and both parties are satisfied because of the mutual cooperation as long as the alliance lasted.

On June 17 2012 04:53 HiroPro wrote:


We are House Chezinu, 5th Party. That is all I am permitted to say. Portals of the past may aid you in learning about us. The number of board members will not be released.

---

My personal win condition is to improve House Chezinu, 5th Party. Acceptable members joining obviously furthers this goal.

Your claimed win condition is compatible with House Chezinu, 5th Party. Anti-town forces possess killing power which can harm the members of House Chezinu, 5th Party and their removal is beneficial.

---

We are pleased to see the interest in joining and aiding House Chezinu, 5th Party. However, several individuals ask questions which can already be answered by reading the personal filter of Director of Recruitment/Funding HiroPro. Please do this.

I am taking a lunch break and will be back in ~45 minutes.

On June 17 2012 05:31 KharadBanar wrote:

I assume that if I cast doubt on a member of The HOUSE, HiroPro will alert me of it.
If not, that alliance has more benefits for me than for them, because he basically "promised" that The HOUSE will try not to interfere in my affairs.

Promises can be broken, though, and I know that I have to be careful in my alliance with them.

On June 17 2012 06:23 Acrofales wrote:
I'm not really convinced we found any scum yet. KB seems more 3rd party than scum, but he definitely doesn't sound townie. I haven't yet made up my mind on whether House Chezinu is neutral or anti-town. As Talismania pointed out, it is rather strange that HiroPro is not afraid of getting shot, so friendship with scum is likely.

I don't want to get into details at night, but there's some other weird stuff that we should talk about during the day.

On June 17 2012 07:17 HiroPro wrote:


Mmm, so that's your wincon. Thanks for sharing! But you really should send stuff like that as part of your application.

On June 17 2012 07:15 Acrofales wrote:
Mainly because I didn't want to even mention the monarchist activist while unknown people with KP are running are running around and probably trying to find him to shoot him.

Insofar as I understand there is no king "yet", but the monarchist activist will make someone king at some point.

On June 17 2012 07:21 HiroPro wrote:


Nope. The Knowledge Archives say that the only win conditions people will receive in PMs is their own and those of people who share the same condition.

On June 17 2012 10:50 xsksc wrote:

... I remember trying to lynch you in Steamship for this kind of posting. People just said, nah that's just how Drazerk plays. There's no need to be lazy though. -_-

Is anyone else around atm? The thread's gone pretty quiet, let's try and get some constructive discussion going.
I would like to hear some more opinnions on Nisanis and Kharadbanars haste in allying with an unknown faction, especially this early in the game.
Personally, I don't like their decision at all. We have very little information about the House, because honestly, most of HiroPro's posts about it have been flavour and nonsense. It may turn out that HiroPro and his House turn out to be a good resource for town. Until I know more about it, however, I'm staying well clear.

On June 17 2012 11:47 DropBear wrote:


Oh wow words words words this makes me think something is off about you even more. If we have any blues please kill/check him tonight.

---

Talismani, I don't have this information so are this king and monarchist activist person you speak of related or unrelated? My wikipedia search of what a monarchist activist is says that they support the crown, but may also support someone who has been deposed or rightfully belongs there

Does the monarchist activist support the current King or another one? I am guessing another one, as you say some people need to kill the activist. It makes sense that the current King and his subjects would want any challengers dead.

Furthermore, HiroPro I'm guessing you aren't the king himself but are allied with him/her?

On June 17 2012 14:06 EchelonTee wrote:
Isn't House Chezinu that 5th party mason circle from Aperture Mafia? Which means they are the good guys?

On June 18 2012 06:46 Drazerk wrote:


Only third party can't win the game while dead

Are you implying you're third party and think everyone else is?

On June 18 2012 10:02 xsksc wrote:


You think that third party =/= anti-town?

On June 19 2012 03:57 EchelonTee wrote:
......a list? tali? .........................................................................

On June 19 2012 04:10 Drazerk wrote:


Why Dec?

On June 19 2012 04:20 Drazerk wrote:
Does anyone think Tali's answer was preprepared and possibly written for him?

On June 19 2012 04:54 Acrofales wrote:

Out of those? Drazerk or Nisani. Why aren't DropBear or Maju on your list?

I will catch up to the rest of the thread a bit now.

On June 19 2012 04:59 Drazerk wrote:
Tali is your shot a 1 time thing?

Just interested

On June 19 2012 05:04 Drazerk wrote:
(Had it been multi shot I would of had you shoot me btw)

On June 19 2012 05:08 Drazerk wrote:


I don't want to be lynched I want to be shot there is a difference

On June 19 2012 05:10 Drazerk wrote:


Lynch creates discussion forces people to take sides etc etc

Shots are done for the luls

On June 19 2012 05:10 Nisani201 wrote:
Alright so I've just read through the thread and I have no idea why people are saying that my play is strange or weird or whatever. I don't know why people are getting away with soft-calling me scum (I'm looking at you, talis) and no one is really posting reasoning

There is Hyaach's analysis on me, which is pretty bad.


Alright, I agree that I didn't explain myself very well in that post and it looks pretty bad, but I'll try to explain it now.

My main understanding of the "house chezinu" mainly came from Merc Mini 2 where I played with Chezinu, and he was acting very similar to Hiro's play in this game. In that game Chezinu was a bulletproof SK and I figured that it was very likely Hiro had a lot of power. I didn't want to get stuck in some stupid feud with a third party when I could have been scumhunting. Furthermore, I didn't really see any downside to allying with the House... and no one has pointed one out; people have been saying that this kind of affiliation with it is scummy but I don't really see why that is.

This is a crazy game and it has crazy roles... I know that I have a crazy role, not sure about others but my experience with crazy games suggests that most people are going to have crazy roles as well.

Why the hell did you include this in your analysis? Did you run out of posts that you thought were actually scummy? This entire case is forced, and this part of it proves it to me.


Once again more blatant and pointless speculation.

A lot of people are talking about the king. Because 2 people (and probably more) already have information on it it seems like it's a very important mechanic in this game. Information is especially important in a game like this where we have so little information about the setup and anything can happen.


What the hell is this? I ask a question to the host and now you're spinning it and making up bullshit. There are a million reasons why I could have asked this question, and you pull one out of the hat to match the opinion of Hiro and a few others that I am 3P.

On June 19 2012 05:18 Nisani201 wrote:
Why do you want me to claim?

I have a crazy role, not alignment. I do have an opportunity for an "extra win" and an "extra loss," but you guys don't have to worry about those because they are pro-town objectives.

On June 19 2012 05:39 Nisani201 wrote:
Why do you keep asking me these questions?

On June 19 2012 05:43 EchelonTee wrote:
Tali, you should shoot soon if you have an informed decision. Don't make it last minute; we can use the flip to help figure out the lynch.

On June 19 2012 06:13 FourFace wrote:
talismania do you still want to shoot me, if so why?

On June 19 2012 06:13 Acrofales wrote:

I can ONLY win with town. I can lose with town... and additionally I can lose if something bad happens. No clue what Nisani's extra wincon is.

On June 19 2012 06:27 FourFace wrote:


Why, are you probing for the MA?

On June 19 2012 06:52 deconduo wrote:
Hey talis, if you are telling the truth about being a dayvig can you post the following statement please?

On June 19 2012 07:04 deconduo wrote:


I'm a lie detector. I can tell if a post contains any falsehoods. Post exactly what I said to post now please. Assuming you are telling the truth I can verify you as town and dayvig.

On June 19 2012 07:15 deconduo wrote:
I'm 99% sure Drazerk is town, there's no way a non-town would come out like that to try and get proven. If it comes back a lie it almost certainly means talis is town. If it comes back true, we lynch talis.

On June 19 2012 07:17 deconduo wrote:
Also full roelclaim:

I am Phoenix Wright, the Objectivist
Once per game, I can quote a passage of someone and type ##OBJECTION, and the hosts will confirm or deny it openly in the thread, even if the original poster didn't know it.

On June 19 2012 07:19 Drazerk wrote:


More information more power and what not

On June 19 2012 07:28 HiroPro wrote:
You can wriggle and squirm all you want talismania, but the truth is you were confirmed as non-town from the very moment in which you refused to say what you were supposed to say.

On June 19 2012 07:33 Drazerk wrote:


Which means we are all town?

On June 19 2012 07:47 Acrofales wrote:

It does. If you were scum and Tali were town, you would know Tali is not on your scumteam and hence probable town. A tiny bit of looking at the thread would make that even more probable. Now lets go back to the logic:

Statements:
A = drazerk is town
B = deconduo is town
C = talismania is town

Theory:
A & B & ~C

Theory is FALSE, so we know:

~(A & B & ~C)
= ~A | ~B | C

This statement is true if any one of the following is true:
~A = Drazerk is not town
~B = Deconduo is not town
C = Talismania is town

Because you would already know C, that would make it completely safe for you.

If it's still not clear, replace "Talismania is not town" in the checked post with "Pigs can fly". Because pigs can, in fact, not fly, anything else in the post is irrelevant: it will be marked as false.

However, this is all academic, because Deconduo derped even more than I thought and we learned NOTHING from the whole ordeal.

On June 19 2012 07:56 Drazerk wrote:
Who ever you shoot I am placing a 30 min clock on it T_T

On June 19 2012 08:47 talismania wrote:
Strongandbig which would like me to shoot: KB or MajuGarzett?

On June 19 2012 08:28 MajuGarzett wrote:

KB is scummy. I know I said earlier that I didn't suspect him but that was in reference solely to the act of making an alliance with the house. The stuff he's done after that is bad.

Nisani is okay but I disliked how little info there was in his vote for xsksc. He didn't really point out anything, just make generalizations and tell people to go look at the filter themselves.

On June 19 2012 08:28 MajuGarzett wrote:

KB is scummy. I know I said earlier that I didn't suspect him but that was in reference solely to the act of making an alliance with the house. The stuff he's done after that is bad.

Nisani is okay but I disliked how little info there was in his vote for xsksc. He didn't really point out anything, just make generalizations and tell people to go look at the filter themselves.

On June 20 2012 01:31 HiroPro wrote:


Maju's role PM says that he only has 1 partner. There is no way a 15-player game only has one 2-man scum team. So we probably have a second scum team or some SK/assassins. KB putting a vote on Maju without calling for him to be vig shot doesn't do much to lower the chances that he's anti-town....

On June 20 2012 01:38 KharadBanar wrote:

A little factual correction: My vote was the second one to go on Maju. It didn't decide anything at the time, but I wanted the possibility of a Maju lynch to be real should he not contribute from that point on.

On June 20 2012 04:43 strongandbig wrote:


You talking about Nisani? Seriously?

On June 20 2012 05:32 strongandbig wrote:
Talis, I think that KB didn't know he was the king. He changed his vote to himself and thought nisani would die from the vengeful townie thing. However, in actuality whoever the king votes for gets lynched. KB voted for himself, so he died.

This is pending a response to my question above. If the answer is "his vote was too late" then I'm wrong. If there is no answer then I think I'm right.

I also think fourface gets informed who the king is each day, and knows kb was the king and that's why he keeps insisting that the king dies, which is retarded.

On June 20 2012 05:33 strongandbig wrote:
And as soon as you said "I think I know what you are" the nisani-as-MA theory popped out to me too.

On June 20 2012 05:38 FourFace wrote:
strongandbig is behaving most scumishly. And you talis should also stop making inquiries about the identity of the MA. Only AMA want to know who the MA is and since the AMA are 3rd party you could be one of them even because you killed a scum

On June 20 2012 07:13 Acrofales wrote:
WTF happened to the game I was playing earlier?

On June 19 2012 16:38 talismania wrote:
I will say this again:

it's really unlikely nisani is maju's partner.

Nisani claimed "a crazy role" with "extra win and extra lose" wincons. The existence of "extra lose" wincons was backed up by acrofales. Maju did not have any of these wincons. Therefore I find it an incredibly fortunate lie by nisani to have made that up if he is indeed maju's partner. More likely, nisani is third party or something.

On June 20 2012 08:37 xsksc wrote:

Maybe I misread it but I thought Nisani denied that claim, if not, my bad I'll go re-read.
Also, I'm curious about this point you made earlier.

The only post in my filter that is anything close to that would be this
If you had actually read the context, Nisani was questioning my KB case, and I had to go AFK after I replied. I wouldn't be around again for a while, so I said I'd respond to anything else he asked in the morning, that was not a "if anyone has questions". How on earth is that a "classic scum post"? Why do you hate it when townies do it? Is it more towny to just vanish for 12 hours?

On June 20 2012 08:37 xsksc wrote:

Maybe I misread it but I thought Nisani denied that claim, if not, my bad I'll go re-read.
Also, I'm curious about this point you made earlier.

The only post in my filter that is anything close to that would be this
If you had actually read the context, Nisani was questioning my KB case, and I had to go AFK after I replied. I wouldn't be around again for a while, so I said I'd respond to anything else he asked in the morning, that was not a "if anyone has questions". How on earth is that a "classic scum post"? Why do you hate it when townies do it? Is it more towny to just vanish for 12 hours?

On June 20 2012 14:47 DropBear wrote:

Lets wait until morning. Yes, I will probably survive til then. I would have won the lynch under normal rules today so I highly doubt scum will shoot me.

If you have to try and work out what my reads are at this point you clearly are not reading my filter. Go read my last few posts. Then read them again.


I'm not a blue i'm a green. I don't think I'm cool enough to have a name.

On June 21 2012 01:11 ghost_403 wrote:
Nisani
StrongAndBig
MajuGazett
KharadBanar
EschelonTee

Two of my best scum reads are already dead, GJ town.

I really don't like having to put ET on this list, given how much him and my predecessor fought it out, but I really don't like how he jumped around on his voting. Later, I'll look through some of his previous games to see how he votes as town. Also, never trust the guy who reports the votecounts.

Given a bullet, I would shoot Nisani in a heartbeat.

On June 21 2012 03:22 Drazerk wrote:
Also we can confirm me, dec and tali was not framed which is cool

On June 21 2012 05:03 Acrofales wrote:
I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm saying ET was killed by Maju's partner (the only KP we know exists). That could be 4F/ghost. 4F never really convinced me, but I haven't made up my mind either way yet. Just throwing this theory out there: ET could've been killed because he was on to something and the only real suspicion he had mentioned that wasn't generally held opinion is 4F/Ghost.

I know it's all wifom. I'm just throwing the theory out there before I look into ET and 4F/ghost's filter in detail.

On June 21 2012 06:20 DropBear wrote:

I'm sick of making perfect sense and being told it makes me mafia. I spent all of yesterday defending myself against the most retarded case I have ever seen yet somehow getting the most votes.

The person who pushed it the hardest just shot a detective and it's being shrugged off. Incidentally, you spelt Auditore incorrectly in your claim Acrofales.

On June 22 2012 05:02 Nisani201 wrote:

If the Chezinu thing was real then I figured it would be cool to give him the illusion of power. I sent in an application.

On June 22 2012 07:44 xsksc wrote:


I have a proposal.
You guys give me a list of people you want investigated. I'll investigate into that list each night until I'm shot, and if it does come to lynching me, my flip will confirm their alignments. (I'm 100% sure that I'm sane.)
This either forces scum to use a KP on me, saving you a lynch day, or you lynch me in a few days and you get the alignments of everyone I checked, too. Either way I'm going to die, it seems, so I might as well be useful while I'm alive.

On June 22 2012 08:14 HiroPro wrote:
You're making some assumptions that I wouldn't, but I'll let you figure it out

On June 24 2012 03:04 Drazerk wrote:
Also you are aware I asked Tali to shoot me right?

On June 24 2012 07:21 ghost_403 wrote:


Why? You spent a huge part of the beginning of the game actively hunting scum. House Chezinu took up, what, two or three pages of your filter, and began your case on xcrzd. Now, after you claim Neutral Linked Survivor, you're all like



You weren't afraid to play protown then, so why the change of heart?

On June 24 2012 07:57 HiroPro wrote:


To stay alive, I needed to show that I wasn't anti-town. Now that I've established that, there's no reason for me to help town.

On June 24 2012 19:02 Hyaach wrote:
I RBed ghost last night
I'm not scum. A scum xsksc wouldn't kill ghost either.
Scum win-con is when scum outnumbers town. Third parties doesn't count.
Why kill ghost then?
He could get a mislynch on me today, kill someone tonight and try to get a plurality lynch tomorrow.
But all these would have been been even faster accomplished had he killed someone last night.
I don't know.

On June 24 2012 19:52 xsksc wrote:
It's all good, it does waste a day, but it'll confirm my claim+result.
I'm just baffled that you think this is all some clever gambit to buy an extra day so I can use my mysterious power and win.
It's a watertight theory. One thing though...I was free to shoot last night. Why didn't I?
It doesn't implicate Ghost because I've just claimed Hyaach is anti-town, and it doesn't buy me town-cred.

Explain to me why you think scum xsk holds his shot there (without calling me an idiot this time, pretty please) and I'll die a happy man.

On June 26 2012 01:49 Acrofales wrote:
@Tali: what makes you think Hyaach is scummier than xsksc? Is it the mechanics? Or is it his behaviour? Basically up until I wrote the two cases, I found Hyaach to have a moderately acceptable filter, whereas xsksc's was terrible. Since then Hyaach has lurked and xsksc has acted townie (I agree with you there). Acting townie when your life's on the line is pretty easy though, for scum. Even Majuju managed to do it in Holy Roman and he was scummy as all hell until the pressure really came on. Then he made some decent contributions before he flipped scum. Enough to convince me and some others that he was less scummy than Sinani (turned out he was exactly equally scummy as Sinani )

On June 26 2012 02:18 HiroPro wrote:


That's not bulletproof, that was just a veteran right?

On June 26 2012 02:46 Acrofales wrote:
If ghost is 3rd party and scum withheld a kill to make him look bad, they are really stupid. What does scum win? 1 extra day in which we eliminate 1 3rd party. There's still the same number of townies as yesterday and we have eliminated one of the possibilities where scum might be hiding.

I have gone through all possibilities and it really made no sense for scum to withhold KP yesterday. My night plan was made in order to wifom scum into thinking it did and they *might* have fallen for it (I was hoping they did). However, if we assume scum can actually think things through for themselves, then they should know withholding KP was a bad move.

On June 16 2012 02:30 strongandbig wrote:
Note that they also only said no "planer" dragon.

There very well could be a "planar" dragon.

Also more people sign up for this!!

On June 26 2012 04:59 Acrofales wrote:
Still haven't found the other ones... and yes, I know how the TL search function works.

Also, @deconduo and Tali: I still insist the lynch wasn't bad. For myself, I was firmly stuck between xsksc and Hyaach as the last scum. There was a not-too-outside chance that ghost was scum and worst-case scenario was that we lynched a 3rd party. He was not helping us and just breezing by, so I don't feel bad for it.

We got a LOT of information: we know for sure that scum was withholding KP. We also got the whole rolename deal, even if I don't buy it yet (find me professor badass, ezio auditorie and neutral balrog survivor).


PS: I will accept my rolename with or without its typo

On June 26 2012 23:26 xsksc wrote:

sorry, am i missing something obvious? I'm not really sure what you mean