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Framed or miller is pretty much the same as far as I'm concerned.
1v1v3 is a LOSS for town. Straight from the Maju role pm:
You win when the number of scum alive are equal or outnumber the number of Town-aligned players alive. 3rd Party do not count.
If one of the "confirmed" townies is scum, then it really IS better to lynch SnB right now. It matters nothing to town whether we lose at 0v1v2 or 1v1v3. The chance of PREVENTING the 0v1v2 happening is better if we lynch you now, rather than after xsksc is dead (which would also make tomorrow mylo, so if xsksc is town, then lynching Hyaach tomorrow would be dumb).
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On June 25 2012 22:03 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 18:05 Drazerk wrote:
Well its much better than a no brain sacrificial lamb vote at any rate and I've been paranoid about the mason pair considering just how broken that role really is and I can't imagine anyone using it without some major drawback involved.
S+B wants to stay alive the most so I want to kill him first so... ##vote strongandbig
If scum was hanging on their KP last night they are basically forced to do it again anyway so it shouldn't matter that much delaying the sacrificial lambs This is super fishy. Why would scum hold their KP again tonight?
because if they shoot it ruins the Wifom 3 they need to abuse tomorrow if they want to survive
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On June 25 2012 22:03 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 18:05 Drazerk wrote:
Well its much better than a no brain sacrificial lamb vote at any rate and I've been paranoid about the mason pair considering just how broken that role really is and I can't imagine anyone using it without some major drawback involved.
S+B wants to stay alive the most so I want to kill him first so... ##vote strongandbig
If scum was hanging on their KP last night they are basically forced to do it again anyway so it shouldn't matter that much delaying the sacrificial lambs This is super fishy. Why would scum hold their KP again tonight?
Why is it fishy? I don't see much reason to hold their KP again tonight, but I don't know why the comment is fishy, it's just wrong (I think).
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
Also if there was a role to kill you why have they not done it yet?
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I don't see why you care about dying, you still win when Hiro lives right? Nobody has a reason to kill him, or they'd have done it already...besides why should we care if you win or not? The fact you're so paranoid about dying just gives us more reason to kill you lol.
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On June 25 2012 22:30 xsksc wrote:
I don't see why you care about dying, you still win when Hiro lives right? Nobody has a reason to kill him, or they'd have done it already...besides why should we care if you win or not? The fact you're so paranoid about dying just gives us more reason to kill you lol.
I agree with the scum! Kill (uncover) the other scumteam! 
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On June 25 2012 22:38 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 22:30 xsksc wrote:
I don't see why you care about dying, you still win when Hiro lives right? Nobody has a reason to kill him, or they'd have done it already...besides why should we care if you win or not? The fact you're so paranoid about dying just gives us more reason to kill you lol. I agree with the scum! Kill (uncover) the other scumteam!
I resent this obnoxious defamation. You dare call Robert Downey Jr. scum?
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Btw, there's a very small chance of it, but in case there's another framer or w/e, don't give me a single person to investigate tomorow night. (assuming we lynch s+b and I live for another night)
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@xsksc:
On June 10 2012 20:40 Forumite wrote:
Some player may check out wrong on alignment checks, but if so, they will be read the same during the whole game.
So it doesn't really matter who we tell you to check out, Framers have already framed who they're going to frame.
Weird, you would think that the DT would know this sort of thing.
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I assumed that's referring to millers.
Weird? Several others have mentioned the possibility of a framer still being around, it's not my own suggestion lol
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But they aren't claiming to be the DT. Maju's PM says that he gets to frame a player Night 0, and that player will get checked opposite the rest of the game. The rules state that any wrong alignment check will read wrong the entire game. That doesn't make it sound like a framer role is possible in this game.
I would expect someone claiming to be the DT to pick up on these sorts of things.
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On June 25 2012 23:06 ghost_403 wrote:
But they aren't claiming to be the DT. Maju's PM says that he gets to frame a player Night 0, and that player will get checked opposite the rest of the game. The rules state that any wrong alignment check will read wrong the entire game. That doesn't make it sound like a framer role is possible in this game.
I would expect someone claiming to be the DT to pick up on these sorts of things.
This is a pretty damned good catch, ghost. Makes me doubt my plan (the only situation in which it's a bad plan is if xsksc is actually scum). All the evidence mounting up against xsksc, but for now I'll stick with it. Everybody else should use their own judgement.
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I'd rather lynch S+B, because it makes it harder for the town to lynch me. Unfortunately, xgrak is pretty clearly lying about his role, and I will almost always vote to lynch the scum in front of me.
@acro: I have to agree with S+B, which is too bad, because I think he's scum/anti-town too. I think you're relying too much on mechanics to get through this game. Stop worrying about the best lynch, and lynch the scum in front of you. xhrvd is lying about his roleclaim, lynch him first and then we can worry about lynching into S+B/Hiro.
Also, Hiro protown? He's afk'd himself since he claimed neutral survivor linked whatever he is.
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Quick recap on the pros and cons of the plan:
1. If xsksc is the last scum, it doesn't matter (just delays the win by a day).
2. If xsksc is scum and so is one of the "confirmed townies", the plan may be bad for us.
3. If xsksc is scum and so is (at least) one of the 3rd parties, the plan is not detrimental and may be beneficial.
4. If xsksc is not scum, the plan is clearly beneficial to us.
I still weigh the chance of 4 being true greater than the chance of 2 being true. 1 and 3 are more likely than either, so the plan is most probably neutral.
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Maju was not a framer, he was a rolecop.
I'm talking about the possibility of a mafia framer, not the n0 ability they had.
I was told to check Hyaach, in the thread.
Hyaach returns red. Now this means he's either
Scum
Miller
Framed
I've said it's a very unlikely chance, but in my opinnion it should be taken into account.
I have actually read that shit, so you can stop fucking implying that I haven't. I know how their n0 ability works, I know how DT works. That line in the OP would be referring to the n0 scum ability, if not a miller. I am talking about the minuscale possibility of a mafia framer role. It's a bastard game with 2 DTs lol, why couldn't there be 1 permanent and 1 temporary framing ability?
Fine, I was actually trying to help, but whatever, I'll just shut the fuck up and check whoever I'm told to like a good dog, and then I'll roll over and die quietly.
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On June 25 2012 22:30 xsksc wrote:
I don't see why you care about dying, you still win when Hiro lives right? Nobody has a reason to kill him, or they'd have done it already...besides why should we care if you win or not? The fact you're so paranoid about dying just gives us more reason to kill you lol.
Christ, how many fucking times do I have to explain this? My win condition is for me or hiro to survive. I will not do anything the goes against that, and letting myself get lynched clearly goes against that. Especially since unless it's mod confirmed that there is no third-party-hunting role in the game, letting myself get lynched opens the door to me losing, when I would win if I survived.
Also why are you discounting the possibility that Hyaach is a miller? There doesn't have to be a framer still in the game for your check to be wrong.
Look guys no one has any reason to believe I'm anything other than what I say I am. The only evidence anyone has put forward is "he doesn't want to die lol", which is directly my wincon. The only reason acro has for trying to kill me is "numbers", but numbers dictate you need to be trying to kill scum.
By getting rid of the scum KP you give yourselves a lot more time to work through everything else, if the game even continues.
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On June 26 2012 00:12 strongandbig wrote:
Also why are you discounting the possibility that Hyaach is a miller? There doesn't have to be a framer still in the game for your check to be wrong.
Herp a derp it's right above you
On June 25 2012 23:27 xsksc wrote:
Hyaach returns red. Now this means he's either
Scum
Miller
Framed
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
Strong stop thinking of yourself as a survivor but more as a second town team.
Sometimes its better to die for the good of the town. This is what you would be doing.
Being alive is sadly not part of your win condition nor is it optimal play.
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Really quick votecount.
S&B has 3 votes, xsksc has 6 votes. xsksc is to be lynched.
Deadline in 2 hours 25 minutes.
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I think SnB was mainly aiming at my analysis, where I assumed that if xsksc and Hyaach are both town, then there is a framer. I agree that in the initial post I forgot about the existence of millers. In the follow-up, however, you had already mentioned that possibility and I fail to see why the difference between being framed and being a miller is so important to you. The key point of the scenario is that there is a scum on the loose.
From a purely coherence of role name point of view, Tyrion the MILLER roleblocker makes a hell-of-a-lot of sense. In fact, I believe I mentioned it in the ScumQT of GoT mafia that Tyrion could just roleclaim his own name and say he's a miller :D
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EPT
