I will not be modkilled.
Currently in 2 games but both look like they are ending soon (PYP and MTG). Is that fine?
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zelblade
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I will not be modkilled. Currently in 2 games but both look like they are ending soon (PYP and MTG). Is that fine? | ||
zelblade
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On June 02 2012 10:21 VisceraEyes wrote: Also I left my Tunnel-Goggles at home today, so hopefully I can actually get something DONE this game. Fucks sake. Well bugs wont be playing so you should be fine ^^ | ||
zelblade
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Naturally this doesnt mean that VE is clear from any suspision - Its still a possible play for mafia. And lynching based on "scumslips" alone is generally not a good idea as artansis pointed out. More often than not these "scumslips" are made by townies. Trust me when I say I know this because I "slipped" (as a VT) by saying "to town" in my first game. | ||
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On June 05 2012 11:15 Hyaach wrote: I would let VE live for a day unless something really scummy comes out from his play. it takes huge balls on claim this early, be it fake/real and its not a fool proof plan imo mafia or town. Besides, from his claim, i would put all his analysis on a magnifying glass to be dismembered and examined piece by piece. Why would it take "huge balls" to claim if he is town? Why would you let him live for only "a day"? Why would you put his analysis specifically to be dismembered and examined just because his is immune to checks? Does this mean you think this claim is suspicious? | ||
zelblade
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And you didnt answer this: Why did you state that you are going to let him leave for only "a day?" | ||
zelblade
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It generally means a targert for scum to shoot (thats what I thought you said) but did you mean a targert to be lynched instead? | ||
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On June 05 2012 23:11 ghost_403 wrote: @artanis: That's just not true; VE always dies in the first 72 hours of the game. No way he'll get checked. As far as Furer, there was a post or two of his that looked scummy rather than newbie town. I'll go back and find them in a bit. Well you apparently havent been reading someone's recent games. | ||
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Either way I would be perfectly fine with a Pandain lynch. The blueslip feels exteremely fake to me. Slipping like that is akin to making a major scumslip... and one is more likely than not going to be more careful about leaking their role no? As pointed out, the random vig claim as well as the random mason discussion managed to severly derail the thread which reeks of scum. A couple more points is that he tries to dump suspision on me through a vauge statement. + Show Spoiler + I'm also very suspicious of Zellblade, as he's hardly posted at all. In fact, hilariously enough, he's just asked interogative questions. Which I find hilarious and will do one day. So why are interogative questions suspicious? I found hyaach's post to be a little.... wierd so I questioned it. Why do you even bring me up if you dont intend to lynch me today? (Assuming this since he wants to lynch BH + he isnt even bothering to make a serious case) Town doesnt bring up every little suspision they have and put it out in the open, and this side comment looks alot like mafia attempting to derail the discussion onto me. Note that this is when pressure starts going onto him. ##vote: pandain | ||
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On June 06 2012 22:12 Shraft wrote: Hyaach, zelblade and furerkip should really start posting again. They haven't said anything for almost a day. Had something on today. I do find it wierd though that furekip is suddenly exteremly quiet after posting a ton regarding VE's claim near the start of the game. Might be IRL issues though. | ||
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On June 06 2012 22:40 ghost_403 wrote: The post that I had originally thought was most scummy from Furer was this one. I don't like the fact that he says he's going to back off on VE since no one is jumping on his bandwagon. However, upon further reflection, I think he did exactly what I would have done in the situation: state that he still thought VE was scummy and move on to doing something else. I don't think that he's nearly as scummy after giving it further thought. This post still bothers me a little: Show nested quote + On June 05 2012 07:38 furerkip wrote: If you are wondering where I got 4 from, it's from the maximum amount of mafia as you can see on the 1st page. I've checked the first page, and it doesn't say how many scum are in the game. It could be an extrapolation, or it could be a scumslip. If he does flip scum, I would assume that there are either four scum total, or, more likely, three scum and a serial killer. I still don't like his stances on mislynches outside of LYLO, but that could be easily attributed to him learning to play outside of TL. tl;dr: I was wrong, and my read on him has gone from scum to null. Wait what? I took his word for it and didnt check the OP -_- I dont think that him claiming that there was 4 scum is scummy since its a somewhat plausible assumption and may be the norm where he plays, but him lying about it being in the op is just... | ||
zelblade
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So furekip why did you lie about it? | ||
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I'm on a bus home right now, will post more in a bit | ||
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On June 07 2012 09:40 Shraft wrote: I'm not that suspicious of Navillus anymore. All of my problems with him came from one post that I thought was loaded with scumminess, but I haven't been able to notice anything scummy about his subsequent posts. I've made the mistake of tunneling a player based off of one really scummy post before, and I am not going to do it again. Additionally, we now know that Pandain had a town read on him. I've got this gut feeling that at least part of the Mafia is lurking. They might have one active veteran player in VE/BH but I think that at least one (likely two) of them are skating by without posting much. My proposed lynch target for Day 2 is zelblade. My first issue with him are these questions: + Show Spoiler + On June 05 2012 12:08 zelblade wrote: Show nested quote + On June 05 2012 11:15 Hyaach wrote: I would let VE live for a day unless something really scummy comes out from his play. it takes huge balls on claim this early, be it fake/real and its not a fool proof plan imo mafia or town. Besides, from his claim, i would put all his analysis on a magnifying glass to be dismembered and examined piece by piece. Why would it take "huge balls" to claim if he is town? Why would you let him live for only "a day"? Why would you put his analysis specifically to be dismembered and examined just because his is immune to checks? Does this mean you think this claim is suspicious? On June 05 2012 15:54 zelblade wrote: How does claiming miller paint a targert on his head if hes town when its an anti-town role. And you didnt answer this: Why did you state that you are going to let him leave for only "a day?" On June 05 2012 16:46 zelblade wrote: Eh wait what did you mean by "paint a targert on his head" It generally means a targert for scum to shoot (thats what I thought you said) but did you mean a targert to be lynched instead? They make him appear pro town, when in reality he doesn't really have to anything at all. They make it seem like he's contributing to the town even though he's not. I wouldn't have as much of an issue with them if it weren't for his lack of contributions to the town. (VE also poses a lot of questions, but he also brings new information to the table, makes his own cases, etc.) After this he returns after about 24 hours just to jump on the Pandain lynch with this post: On June 06 2012 22:21 zelblade wrote: Apologies for the splotchy activity have been a little busy of late. Either way I would be perfectly fine with a Pandain lynch. The blueslip feels exteremely fake to me. Slipping like that is akin to making a major scumslip... and one is more likely than not going to be more careful about leaking their role no? As pointed out, the random vig claim as well as the random mason discussion managed to severly derail the thread which reeks of scum. A couple more points is that he tries to dump suspision on me through a vauge statement. [1] + Show Spoiler + I'm also very suspicious of Zellblade, as he's hardly posted at all. In fact, hilariously enough, he's just asked interogative questions. Which I find hilarious and will do one day. So why are interogative questions suspicious? I found hyaach's post to be a little.... wierd so I questioned it. Why do you even bring me up if you dont intend to lynch me today? (Assuming this since he wants to lynch BH + he isnt even bothering to make a serious case) Town doesnt bring up every little suspision they have and put it out in the open, and this side comment looks alot like mafia attempting to derail the discussion onto me. Note that this is when pressure starts going onto him. [2] ##vote: pandain
Keep in mind that this is the only lenghty (it's lenghty compared to his other posts) post that zelblade has written, it contains only bullshit, and he does not take a firm stance on anything. He is just "fine with the Pandain lynch". His two most recent post about furerkip's scum slip (which furerkip has yet to explain, by the way) brings no new information either. Basically what I'm saying is that if zelblade doesn't do some quality posting during Day 2, we should lynch the fuck out of him. I dont see how me saying that the blueslip seemed fake is bullshit, when it seemed so forced. I cannot wrap my head around someone "slipping" like that, and thus thought it was fake, and thus thought he was fakeclaiming scum since doing that as town makes no sense. Basically I agreed with the pandain case and thought that he was most likely to flip scum on a couple of points, and I mention them in passing. So just because I dont bring up any new points means im scum? Really? As town I usually sheep cases that I find are good/likely to hit scum, might I ask, how is this suspicious to you? Also, "im fine with a pandain lynch" = I want to lynch pandain, I think hes scum and he needs to hang. Are you really going to nitpick over a small thing like phrasing? Me voting him means me making a stance on the issue. What does "firm" stance even mean? I guess its fine to accuse me if I try to shrink away from responsibility after the lynch, but am I doing that? | ||
zelblade
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As stated I was busy with stuff. Will have more time so dont worry about it. It does equal it -_- Even if you dont think it does the fact that I voted him along with the post should say something no? | ||
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Since bh didn't get a rb notification (I am assuming this since he was speculating on a town jk), We either have a medic who doesn't know what he is doing, an offensive jail from a jk which might have led to the no kill (assuming hats how it works) or bh is lying about his claim. I don't think that the claim is fake, nor do I think that we have a dumb medic, so ##vote:furekip Either way bh do you have your bullet or is it gone? | ||
zelblade
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But he still needs to answer some shit | ||
zelblade
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Because I highly doubt so since that isn't the norm | ||
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On June 08 2012 10:14 Blazinghand wrote: Yes clearly my sinister scum plan was to fakeclaim vigi then lie about whether or not I can shoot on the next night Well there have been worse screwups ![]() | ||
zelblade
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Im reading up filters now. | ||
zelblade
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Also assuming furekip doesnt come back should we lynch him anyway or try to get him modkilled and risk him ningavoting? | ||
zelblade
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I dont think that ghost is scum for now. He has been making (what I feel are valid) accusations against both furekip and zentor. I am somewhat certain furekip is scum from the no. of mafia thing, and whilst it is possible, dont think that ghost would push furekip that early and dump some suspision on him when most of the thread felt he was probably town. Of course this read is a little weak due to furekip's alignment being in question in itself but I am quite certain that furekip will flip scum. Regarding hyaach I found his first post coming off as a little off, which is primilarly why I questioned it. Might have been due to the fact the post was somewhat unclear, but I did find him saying that claiming miller (optimal move imo) took "balls" a littler wierd. Its wierd that he tries to push attention onto me + furekip when snarfs calls him out of lurking. I also highly doubt scum would RB him and its actually more likely that hyaach got JK'd. | ||
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On June 08 2012 19:51 Shraft wrote: Show nested quote + On June 08 2012 19:33 zelblade wrote: Also assuming furekip doesnt come back should we lynch him anyway or try to get him modkilled and risk him ningavoting? A ninja vote should not be very dangerous. The only scenario where it can make a difference is if we have five votes on someone, and he comes in and drops the deciding vote. What I mean is us lynching someone else instead and hoping he gets modkilled (for not voting). | ||
zelblade
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[insert pic here] | ||
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Imagine you are a JK who just jked say scummy player X and there was no NK. You probably suspect that X is scum and u blocked his kill, and this will be amplified especially if X doesnt claim the rb as it would show that he has something to hide. Well claiming the RB makes X look a *little* better. | ||
zelblade
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The primary problem with this is that I dont think hyaach is town at this point and unless this is LI all over again (very unlikely) they cant be both scum. I am going to sleep, will sleep on it. VE care to grace us with your thoughts? | ||
zelblade
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Main reason I trusted BH's claim was that I didnt think that he would do it as scum. Why? Assuming that he is scum, he basically played it out such that his team RB'd hyaach, knowing that hyaach could be blamed for the NK given how scummy he is, and use the mafia's factional KP as a "vig shot". However, in this case, since he could not have predicted a roleblock on him, unless you are of course suggesting mafia held their shot (which has never been done on tlmafia btw last I checked bar 3-1 mylo situations), means that if BH was mafia and made this plan he would basically force a 1-1 trade with hyaach since one of them had to be scum in that case. He could have pulled the SK card after mislynching hyaach in this case, but it was very unlikely that it would have worked considering how he didnt exactly look stellar either. Scum probably isnt willing to pull off this sort of trade d2. (I THINK) There are a lot of things regarding BH that seem off to me though, will explain more on that tomorrow. | ||
zelblade
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Also I wouldn't mind lynching mrz but I want to get this hyaach bh shit settled today. | ||
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Also hyaach who did you try to jail last night and why (yes I know you got rb'd but who did you try to jail) My vote is still on furekip because I haven't decided who is lookin worse. Dont worry going to switch for sure. I am currently not at home and posting on my phone is a pain so I'll post more when I get onto a computer | ||
zelblade
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At the start of the day I believed that bh wasnt lying. Well until ghost brought up the meta changes that is. I can understand him wanting to change his playstyle.... But i think that he would have said something like "I'm going to try to be less agressive" pretend if that was the case no? A minor point of course. I am unsure about his reaction regarding pandain's claim. I definitely think him playing it off was possible, but I found this post wierd. On June 06 2012 11:18 Blazinghand wrote: dude you are aware there are like RBs and shit in this game Note the this is an instant reaction. Let's say someone claims a role that you have and it is exteremly unlikely there are two of the same role. Wouldt you stop for a little while and give it some thought about how you are going to react to what is very possibly a fakeclaim? I don't see why he would post this. By the way, this is before where bh claims he realized he slipped so.... It's not a cover up. What is really bugging me is this - why in the world would a scum bh claim vig? It makes no sense. He didn't know he was getting roleblocked, and doing so would force a 1-1 trade with hyaach at best. Onto hyaach, he has given me scum vibes at the start of the game. Not going to elaborate but his general posting and luckiness made me feel off about him. Claiming rb as scum makes sense, I already explained why somewhere in my filter, so this is a null tell. His jailkeeper claim is sketchy too. Exteremly convenient. The lack of a town rb claiming (not exsisting or simply not willing to claim?) weakens it quite a bit. I can see ehat he means when he says that he shot down every jk scinerio though. It's definitely possible that was faked. However, I'm actually inclined to believe this claim since my gut says so. His recent posting seem to have a fearless aura which makes me feel that he's town. I'm going to just go with bh I guess. ##unvote ##vote: blazinghand | ||
zelblade
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Another point against bh is how he voted ghost. It does feel like he is overreacting. | ||
zelblade
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Furekip and bh should be our next 2 lynches. | ||
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And we are not letting bh getting out of this lynch. ##vote: blazinghand Let's leave palmar alive for a bit and see what he can give us. | ||
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I find t odd mafia hasn't managed to kill anyone. This does explain everything but we need to know wether rb prevents sk's extra night life from going away. Because I highly doubt that there is another jk in play. | ||
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Thinking about it now though ve could have been stacked.. Need to sleep on this | ||
zelblade
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I sort of need to go right now, deciding by tomorrow. | ||
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Let's lynch bh | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On June 12 2012 09:59 Blazinghand wrote: I'm here to talk about Zelblade. He's scum. My argument against him is mostly going to be analysis, but I'll talk about his meta as well. The two sources I'm using for his meta are LI, in which he was scum (link) and MTG Mini, in which he was town (link) to get a better understanding of how he plays. 1) Zelblade played D1 start to his scum meta. To get an idea of how Zelblade starts his scum games off, in LI he opened up with a bunch of questions and soft-defenses of town players (link)(link 2). This basically lets him make some minor contributions until he can find a safe wagon to hop on (link) but only after someone else, a townie, has made a case against that guy (link). He's not afraid to break ground with his vote, but he doesn't make any new cases. I'm not gonna talk about his D2 play from LI, because of the notorious 2-way bus that game-- our D2 was the opposite situation, where two players that weren't in his Scum QT where attacking each other. In his town play, Zelblade is different. As he goes into MTG, Zelblade is lurking but comes out swinging with a case against VE AND a case against NT (link). Also, as an aside, he seems utterly unafraid to lurk. He's apologetic about it, but he goes long periods of times, sometimes days, posting like once or twice in a 24 hour span with meh posts. He's admittedly a low-post-count player, but he doesn't put a lot of effort into "appearing" town when he's town. He'll disappear 20 hours, make a one-line post (link), then disappear for another 20 hours without contributing. When he comes back, he comes back with a read and a vote (link). So how does Zelblade play here? Well, he starts off asking weird questions (link) and making a soft defense based on setup that was inherently reasonable (link). Typical Scum Zelblade. And as soon as the heat picks up on Pandain, he hops right on board. To really contextualize his Pandain vote, let's check out how he responds to claims. 2. Zelblade voted Pandain like he does in scum meta. As town he distrusts weird claims: (link), especially ones without check crumbs (link) to back them up, and immediately calls out Zealos for a bad claim. Sounds like that informed his Pandain reaction, but when we see HOW he went about it, it's a lot more like his scum play than his town play. His reactions to Pandain's claim and Pandain's play D1 match his D1 scum play in LI almost perfectly. He calls out Pandain for diverting the discussion WHILE hiding behind other player's arguments (link): Show nested quote + On June 06 2012 22:21 zelblade wrote: Either way I would be perfectly fine with a Pandain lynch. The blueslip feels exteremely fake to me. Slipping like that is akin to making a major scumslip... and one is more likely than not going to be more careful about leaking their role no? As pointed out, the random vig claim as well as the random mason discussion managed to severly derail the thread which reeks of scum. A couple more points is that he tries to dump suspision on me through a vauge statement. JUST as he did in LI with his case and vote against Tunkeg AFTER ET made the initial case against Tunkeg (link) Show nested quote + On April 09 2012 21:54 zelblade wrote: Giving my thoughts on the lynch candidates proposed so far. My preferred lynch for today would actually be Tunkeg. He first starts off the day with his "random lynch", as well as a spreadsheet detailing the "scores" of everyone, and by extension, how "good" they supposedly are. Although he claims that his aim with this was to generate discussion, the content of the generated discussion, in my opinion, does not help town at all. Looking at the next couple of pages after his post, one will notice that what this has mostly done is do an excellent job of distracting town, instead getting most players to comment on how wrong his list is and agure what exactly a W/L ratio is. I personally dont feel that his list has managed to do anything in terms of scumhuting, and has actually distracted us from doing so. //snip// As such, this is why I believe that Tunkeg is scum. He has managed to waste a boatload of town's time discussing the vitrues of his so-called random lynch and why Jackal is bad, and his sput defense just doesnt click well with me. This is how Zelblade operates as scum: he finds a townie who's already been pushed, usually for saying something irrelevant, but also talks about the D1 candidate "wasting town's time" or "diverting discussion" in addition to reciting main components of the case the others have. Contrast his town play in MTG when he votes to lynch MJ (link), in which he shoots down other cases and notably does not need to justify his case with talk about sidetracking the town, even though MJ WAS full of weird statements about consolidating evidence, jumping to conclusions, and odd vote justifications and non-justifications. He voted who he wanted lynched without fear and without worrying about repercussions. Show nested quote + On May 23 2012 00:00 zelblade wrote: Apparently I screwed up that quote tag -_- Eh I just realised its pluarity lynch lol. I am considering if I should dump my vote on zealos and see if it gains any traction or onto one of the three leading candidates. Kind of a hard decision since I wouldnt mind all of them dying. Mattchew is still being a pain in the ass, though his posts are starting to get understandable, and he actually has more content than say, mouldy jeb. Probably not the best lynch today, think hes town. I still think nova is scummy. But mouldy more so. Agree with marv's case generally. ##vote: Mouldy Jeb Also I am going to sleep soon (school) so I probably cant change my vote (deadline sucks for me as usual -_-). He talks about other players being scummy, but says this target is the most scummy. He does not waffle and waver. He doesn't justify his vote or ameliorate the hard edges his case with lip-flapping. His D1 vote on Pandain looks JUST LIKE his D1 LI vote, and nothing like his voting and case-making when he's scum. This is Zelblade trying to deflect attention and make up easy reasons to vote easy targets, just like when he was scum in LI. Section 3: Zelblades Reaction to Hyaach v BH is scummy regardless of Meta Zalblade's D2 vote on me (link) and his D1 vote on Pandain, coupled with the accompanying cases, look exactly like his scum voting, and nothing like his town voting. In fact, he spent so much time talking about how much he was "bugged" that scum would make my roleclaim and how Hyaach, who had to be town if I was scum, gave him "scummy vibes" that I thought he was voting to lynch Hyaach, not me. Show nested quote + On June 10 2012 02:28 zelblade wrote: + Show Spoiler + Well since no roleblocker is claiming and i cannot be around during the deadline I will be making my decision now. At the start of the day I believed that bh wasnt lying. Well until ghost brought up the meta changes that is. I can understand him wanting to change his playstyle.... But i think that he would have said something like "I'm going to try to be less agressive" pretend if that was the case no? A minor point of course. I am unsure about his reaction regarding pandain's claim. I definitely think him playing it off was possible, but I found this post wierd. On June 06 2012 11:18 Blazinghand wrote: dude you are aware there are like RBs and shit in this game Note the this is an instant reaction. Let's say someone claims a role that you have and it is exteremly unlikely there are two of the same role. Wouldt you stop for a little while and give it some thought about how you are going to react to what is very possibly a fakeclaim? I don't see why he would post this. By the way, this is before where bh claims he realized he slipped so.... It's not a cover up. What is really bugging me is this - why in the world would a scum bh claim vig? It makes no sense. He didn't know he was getting roleblocked, and doing so would force a 1-1 trade with hyaach at best. Onto hyaach, he has given me scum vibes at the start of the game. Not going to elaborate but his general posting and luckiness made me feel off about him. Claiming rb as scum makes sense, I already explained why somewhere in my filter, so this is a null tell. His jailkeeper claim is sketchy too. Exteremly convenient. The lack of a town rb claiming (not exsisting or simply not willing to claim?) weakens it quite a bit. I can see ehat he means when he says that he shot down every jk scinerio though. It's definitely possible that was faked. However, I'm actually inclined to believe this claim since my gut says so. His recent posting seem to have a fearless aura which makes me feel that he's town. I'm going to just go with bh I guess. ##unvote ##vote: blazinghand Look a tthis post and this vote. This isn't what a town player would do. If you were unsure, you would cast a vote for BH and say "yeah he looks scummier" and yeah, if you're gonna be afk for the rest of the day, you lay out your thoughts. But read this post and ask yourself-- is this how a town player writes a case, or how a scum player tries to duck responsibility and come out looking townie at the same time? In fact, this is not how Zelblade ends any of his vote posts as town-- he never feels the need to justify himself or fill himself full of doubts like this. He probably anticipated me not flipping Mafia and didn't want to look too bad on the wagon. Typical scum play. This doesn't look at all like MtG Zelblade. This looks like LI Zelblade. This looks like scum. Let's vote him, and not waste a lynch on the SK who wants to help town. ##vote: Zelblade First off your agurement is mostly meta but ok. I ask questions as well as "soft defend" people regardless of alignment, depending on what I feel like doing in that point of time. For instance, as scum in PYP I do not do so, and I did ask quite a few questions in MTG, and I am pretty sure that my first post on Tunkeg in that game counts as a "soft defense". I understand not wanting to use my scum meta from either LI or pyp which were both... oddball games, but basing such things on D1 only is a little inconclusive no? I dont really understand what you mean by not afraid to lurk when I have been doing so this game too. My periods of inactivity are due to me being busy with stuff. I also havent been trying to "appear" town, so I dont get what BH meant here. As you said, I as town distrust wierd claims, which also happens to be why I thought pandain's vig claim was utter and complete bullshit, as well as initially doubting hyaach's JK claim. Regarding the thing about justifying my vote, I play each game differently. Sometimes if I feel like it I type out a few lines to explain my vote, other times I just say "go read case X" The last part regarding my day 2 vote stuff. Hyaach gave me scummy vibes all through day 1, primilarly due to his first couple of posts which I felt were odd as well as a couple of other things. Which is also why at the start of day 2 I trusted blazinghand over hyaach - simply because I felt BH looked much better as opposed to hyaach. When hyaach's JK claim came, I was obviously suspicious of it due to the fact that it could be "confirmed" by using the mafia RB, as well as the fact that towns were unlikely to lynch claimed medics (which was, as he said, what he esentially was in this setup due to a lack of medics.) (Note that I am aware this isnt really the case in TL towns, but hyaach played somewhere else where this might have been the case, assumption here.) However, what made me doubt myself regarding my read on hyaach and BH was a couple of things. First off ghost's post on BH's meta made me realise that BH's posting as compared to his meta was pretty different, and there was something fishy with how he reacted to the claim (I did consider this earlier but thought that it was possible that he was hiding the fact that he was actually a vig, only later realising that his reaction was instant, which was actually pretty suspicious), as well as me rereading hyaach's filter. Hyaach's posting in d2 made me feel that he was more off an annoyed townie rather than scum. It was more of a gut feel of course. And yes I did think that 1 of BH or hyaach had to be scum. Because I didnt realise how SK interacted with being roleblocked till later on, and I didnt actually consider that possibility. The primary reason why I felt the need to I needed to "fill myself with doubt" was because I was extermely unsure. There were things that made both of you look town, as well as things that made you two look scum, and I took a fairly long time to decide which one of you is scum. I find your meta agurement here weak, since I havent exactly been put in a (what I thought) was a 1-1 trade situation as town, and in a spot where I felt extemely unsure between two candidates. + Show Spoiler + On June 14 2012 06:49 Snarfs wrote: On zelblade, there are two things that make me think that he's the best chance at hitting scum we have tomorrow (that have happened in this game, much of what blazinghand said in his case was meta and I think Artanis showed just how biased meta can be): The first one was the wishy washy post where he ends up voting blazinghand. BH and Artanis have discussed this already and I agree with them that there seemed to be quite a bit of cognitive dissonance between his thoughts and his vote. For reference, the post is here: [click] The second thing I noticed when reading zelblade was his strange insistence that claiming that there are 4 mafia in the game was a reason to lynch furerkip. Zelblade's reasoning wasn't that furer had scumslipped, but rather that furer had claimed that something was in the OP when it wasn't. This misrepresents what furer said though as he doesn't claim anywhere that it says in the OP that there are 4 mafia.: First he tries to push the idea that furer claimed that it listed 4 mafia in the OP even though that's not what ghost says. ghost claims that "It could be an extrapolation, or it could be a scumslip". I personally don't think that scum would ever blatantly lie and believe that furer was guessing the number of scum based on the number of roles available. I find it very hard to believe that anyone actually thought he was saying that it literally says in the OP that there were 4 max scum: Show nested quote + On June 06 2012 22:49 zelblade wrote: On June 06 2012 22:40 ghost_403 wrote: The post that I had originally thought was most scummy from Furer was this one. I don't like the fact that he says he's going to back off on VE since no one is jumping on his bandwagon. However, upon further reflection, I think he did exactly what I would have done in the situation: state that he still thought VE was scummy and move on to doing something else. I don't think that he's nearly as scummy after giving it further thought. This post still bothers me a little: On June 05 2012 07:38 furerkip wrote: If you are wondering where I got 4 from, it's from the maximum amount of mafia as you can see on the 1st page. I've checked the first page, and it doesn't say how many scum are in the game. It could be an extrapolation, or it could be a scumslip. If he does flip scum, I would assume that there are either four scum total, or, more likely, three scum and a serial killer. I still don't like his stances on mislynches outside of LYLO, but that could be easily attributed to him learning to play outside of TL. tl;dr: I was wrong, and my read on him has gone from scum to null. Wait what? I took his word for it and didnt check the OP -_- I dont think that him claiming that there was 4 scum is scummy since its a somewhat plausible assumption and may be the norm where he plays, but him lying about it being in the op is just... Then, zelblade attempts to gain support from other players for a furer lynch. He hardly tries to pressure furer at all and is waiting for others to jump on the wagon first: Show nested quote + On June 06 2012 22:52 zelblade wrote: I am actually willing to lynch furekip based on that alone. As said, there is no townie reasoning possible to lie about something like that. Sure scumslips are usually made by townies but I dont think that they would lie about their reasoning like this. The only problem with this is that it is so dumb as mafia too -_- So furekip why did you lie about it? He then continues to try and push furerkip for the next 3 days even though he has clearly disappeared from the game and would be perfect scum bait for a mislynch: Show nested quote + On June 07 2012 17:50 zelblade wrote: Also I want to lynch furekip if he doesnt give a good explanation for lying about the mafia team numbers thing. Show nested quote + On June 10 2012 11:13 zelblade wrote: Well at least this flip gives us quite a decent bit of info. Furekip and bh should be our next 2 lynches. Thoughts? The first part I covered above. Regarding the second part, from furekips phrasing I think it is pretty clear that he said that the front page stated that there was 4 mafia, when it clearly didnt. I found it exceedingly odd primilarly because there is absoulutely no reason for any townie whatsoever to lie about it, whilst there is a least a probable scum reason to claim something like this (to cover a scumslip). Obviously this doesnt hold water anymore considering that we have 8 players and the game isnt over yet. | ||
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However, knowing that I am town, I am relatively sure that there is at the very least 1 scum in the few people who quickvoted me today in hopes of starting a wagon. The most suspicious of the bunch I feel is artansis. He starts off the game with this post: + Show Spoiler + On June 05 2012 07:51 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Agreed, Blazinghand. Given furerkip's statement about how long VE's claim was, I decided to take a look at his previous claim in MTG Mafia to compare the length. Show nested quote + On May 27 2012 08:04 VisceraEyes wrote: Cool. I'll be brief. I want you to lynch me if you PROMISE TO LYNCH BUGS NEXT. Everyone seems to think either Bugs or I am scum or that we both are. As such, if you guys have a handle on this outside the two of us, I prefer you just get us out of the way first so whoever is left is confirmed whatever. Please guys, no one is going to listen to anything I say at this point and I'm just a distraction. Remove it. Also I'm the Doctor, so if you don't lynch one of me or Bugs, I'm dead tonight anyway. Gg guys, sorry I allowed Bugs to mindfuck me so hard this game. ![]() I had a null read on VE's claim at first because of the fact that both Millers and veteran mafia players should claim miller in a game where the miller is self aware, this does slightly push the case in favor of a mafia VE, but it's still a weak case. How VE will handle himself the rest of the game is going to be a lot more important. My concern however is that he shits up the thread regardless like he did in MTG Mafia where he tunneled WBG hard as town, and did the same as Toad as mafia, meaning that him tunneling someone isn't indicative of alignment. To be frank, I'm not sure how to read him. VE as a veteran is likely to get checked by a DT. By claiming early he prevents getting checked by a DT. We already know he would check red now regardless of whether he's lying or not, so a DT check is now useless. I disagree with a few of the things said in here. (1) I dont see why veteran mafia players "should" claim miller when it is a risky move since it would not only put said player under a ton of scrutiny, as well as the fact that a counterclaim = ve is fucked since it is exteremely unlikely for there to be 2 millers in a 13 player game. (2) If both veteran mafia players as well as millers ought to claim miller, why is this a factor that makes him lean slighty that VE is scum? I dont understand this point at all. This feels a lot like him dumping suspision on VE for no clear reason. + Show Spoiler + On June 09 2012 05:24 Artanis[Xp] wrote: This shit is confusing the fuck out of me and I don't have enough time to read things through thoroughly at this time. My initial read on Hyaach was that his early comments were too dumb to be mafia. His RB claim after BH claimed to be RBed also feels like it's not something a mafia would do. Either he's playing dumb, or he's telling the truth. I wasn't planning on killing BH today but with no day kills it feels like someone has to be lying. The thing with BH not instantly bussing Pandain after his claim doesn't work in his favor either. My gut says Blazinghand, and that's where my vote goes. ##Vote: Blazinghand On June 09 2012 20:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Okay, it seems that for Hyaach to be town there needs to be both a Town roleblocker and a Jailkeeper. For Blazinghand's claim, there just needs to be a vig and a mafia roleblocker. Going to go occam's razor on this. ##Unvote ##Vote: Hyaach I have a problem with this vote. First off lets analyze D2. Imagnie you are scum and you have 2 free mislynches lined up due to some crazy night actions. Blazinghand somehow survived your hit, but its prefectly fine. At this point you are probably thinking that BH got jailed, but who cares since town will lynch him and hyaach. You dont give a shit who gets lynched first, as long as one of them dies and flips town. However, hyaach comes along and claims JK. At this point, you realise that BH couldnt have been jailed, as two JKs are exteremly unlikely and hyaach has no reason to lie. You thus conclude that BH is SK. At this point, who would scum want to lynch? If they lynch hyaach, they get not only a JK, but also a very likely lynch on BH the next day. 2 lynches not on them bringing the game to Lylo. If they lynch BH, town will probably figure out that hyaach is innocent and piece together the informtion. Free mislynch gone. Artansis's reasoning for his switch to BH is exceedingly wierd. He initally bases his vote off gut. Fine. However, he switches his vote, to a wierd occam's razor crap. First off, in hyaach's scineario there needs to be a town rb, a JK and a mafia rb. Not all that unlikely. In BH's case, there needs to be a vig, a mafia roleblocker, as well as another JK or roleblocker to stop scum's (missing) night hit. This reasoning for the vote switch makes 0 sense, and it feels a lot like him attempting to shift the votes off onto hyaach - because that is a better lynch for scum. (all this not taking SK into account since we werent considering possibility of SK at that point in time) + Show Spoiler + On June 14 2012 07:39 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Can't say I saw that shot coming. I was expecting myself, Snarfs or Shraft to get shot. Guess they got a blue read on her somehow, or her reads were making sense. Regardless, zelblade's case is still the strongest by far to me. It was also made by Blazinghand whom was doing anything he could to stay alive and is as unaware of factions as we are, so his case can be seen as legit in that regard. It also raised some good points regarding his behavior. ##Vote: Zelblade Another post I have a huge problem with. Oh I may be biased and all since its regarding me but BH was definately trying to stay alive. Dont you think that he would attempt to stretch the case as best as he could - to make it look "better" than it was? You also posted this earlier in reply to BH's post: + Show Spoiler + On June 13 2012 03:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Blazinghand, I've been more than willing to discuss any cases which I have done plenty yesterday, as well as provide my own case on snarfs which you debunked well. Let me provide you with my interpretation of your case. Show nested quote + On June 12 2012 09:59 Blazinghand wrote: I'm here to talk about Zelblade. He's scum. My argument against him is mostly going to be analysis, but I'll talk about his meta as well. The two sources I'm using for his meta are LI, in which he was scum (link) and MTG Mini, in which he was town (link) to get a better understanding of how he plays. 1) Zelblade played D1 start to his scum meta. To get an idea of how Zelblade starts his scum games off, in LI he opened up with a bunch of questions and soft-defenses of town players (link)(link 2). This basically lets him make some minor contributions until he can find a safe wagon to hop on (link) but only after someone else, a townie, has made a case against that guy (link). He's not afraid to break ground with his vote, but he doesn't make any new cases. I'm not gonna talk about his D2 play from LI, because of the notorious 2-way bus that game-- our D2 was the opposite situation, where two players that weren't in his Scum QT where attacking each other. In his town play, Zelblade is different. As he goes into MTG, Zelblade is lurking but comes out swinging with a case against VE AND a case against NT (link). Also, as an aside, he seems utterly unafraid to lurk. He's apologetic about it, but he goes long periods of times, sometimes days, posting like once or twice in a 24 hour span with meh posts. He's admittedly a low-post-count player, but he doesn't put a lot of effort into "appearing" town when he's town. He'll disappear 20 hours, make a one-line post (link), then disappear for another 20 hours without contributing. When he comes back, he comes back with a read and a vote (link). I would hardly call that a case. It's two paragraphs. What you've posted right now is a case, what he posted in that post were some mild accusations. He's also asked a bunch of questions in MTG mafia. Three questions in a row: Show nested quote + On May 22 2012 17:49 zelblade wrote: By the way is there a voting thread. Because I dont see one and the OP states that there is one. Show nested quote + On May 22 2012 17:56 zelblade wrote: Hey marv who are you suspicious of at this point besides mattchew? Can you also clearly state why you think nova is town based off meta alone? Because I cant see it being similar. Show nested quote + On May 22 2012 18:05 zelblade wrote: Acid so what do you think of nova now? Why is marvellosity buddying with nova a scummy thing to do? And he had many more questions. The lurking behavior is a sketchy claim at best; he's been inactive as both scum and town, though I will give you that he does appear to put in more effort when he's scum. I also don't feel he's put a lot of effort in "appearing" town in this game. Can you pinpoint out the exact posts this game where you feel he tried to "appear town"? Show nested quote + So how does Zelblade play here? Well, he starts off asking weird questions (link) and making a soft defense based on setup that was inherently reasonable (link). Typical Scum Zelblade. And as soon as the heat picks up on Pandain, he hops right on board. To really contextualize his Pandain vote, let's check out how he responds to claims. I just showed how Zelblade asked questions in MTG mafia too, which means it complies with both his town and scum meta. He also hopped on the VE bandwagon in MTG mafia, and the Mouldy Jeb mafia earlier as well. You seem to find things that correspond with how he played scum and then completely negate to search for if he did these things as town too, which he has. Show nested quote + 2. Zelblade voted Pandain like he does in scum meta. As town he distrusts weird claims: (link), especially ones without check crumbs (link) to back them up, and immediately calls out Zealos for a bad claim. Sounds like that informed his Pandain reaction, but when we see HOW he went about it, it's a lot more like his scum play than his town play. His reactions to Pandain's claim and Pandain's play D1 match his D1 scum play in LI almost perfectly. He calls out Pandain for diverting the discussion WHILE hiding behind other player's arguments (link): On June 06 2012 22:21 zelblade wrote: Either way I would be perfectly fine with a Pandain lynch. The blueslip feels exteremely fake to me. Slipping like that is akin to making a major scumslip... and one is more likely than not going to be more careful about leaking their role no? As pointed out, the random vig claim as well as the random mason discussion managed to severly derail the thread which reeks of scum. A couple more points is that he tries to dump suspision on me through a vauge statement. JUST as he did in LI with his case and vote against Tunkeg AFTER ET made the initial case against Tunkeg (link) On April 09 2012 21:54 zelblade wrote: Giving my thoughts on the lynch candidates proposed so far. My preferred lynch for today would actually be Tunkeg. He first starts off the day with his "random lynch", as well as a spreadsheet detailing the "scores" of everyone, and by extension, how "good" they supposedly are. Although he claims that his aim with this was to generate discussion, the content of the generated discussion, in my opinion, does not help town at all. Looking at the next couple of pages after his post, one will notice that what this has mostly done is do an excellent job of distracting town, instead getting most players to comment on how wrong his list is and agure what exactly a W/L ratio is. I personally dont feel that his list has managed to do anything in terms of scumhuting, and has actually distracted us from doing so. //snip// As such, this is why I believe that Tunkeg is scum. He has managed to waste a boatload of town's time discussing the vitrues of his so-called random lynch and why Jackal is bad, and his sput defense just doesnt click well with me. This is how Zelblade operates as scum: he finds a townie who's already been pushed, usually for saying something irrelevant, but also talks about the D1 candidate "wasting town's time" or "diverting discussion" in addition to reciting main components of the case the others have. What I'm seeing in these two different threads (one as mafia, one as town), the main difference I see is how much Zelblade tries to put in effort when he's scum to look town. Zelblade has jumped on bandwagons both as town and as scum though, so bandwagoning Pandain is not something that points to Zelblade being scum. The second part holds more water, but isn't enough for me to consider him mafia. Show nested quote + Contrast his town play in MTG when he votes to lynch MJ (link), in which he shoots down other cases and notably does not need to justify his case with talk about sidetracking the town, even though MJ WAS full of weird statements about consolidating evidence, jumping to conclusions, and odd vote justifications and non-justifications. He voted who he wanted lynched without fear and without worrying about repercussions. On May 23 2012 00:00 zelblade wrote: Apparently I screwed up that quote tag -_- Eh I just realised its pluarity lynch lol. I am considering if I should dump my vote on zealos and see if it gains any traction or onto one of the three leading candidates. Kind of a hard decision since I wouldnt mind all of them dying. Mattchew is still being a pain in the ass, though his posts are starting to get understandable, and he actually has more content than say, mouldy jeb. Probably not the best lynch today, think hes town. I still think nova is scummy. But mouldy more so. Agree with marv's case generally. ##vote: Mouldy Jeb Also I am going to sleep soon (school) so I probably cant change my vote (deadline sucks for me as usual -_-). He talks about other players being scummy, but says this target is the most scummy. He does not waffle and waver. He doesn't justify his vote or ameliorate the hard edges his case with lip-flapping. His D1 vote on Pandain looks JUST LIKE his D1 LI vote, and nothing like his voting and case-making when he's scum. This is Zelblade trying to deflect attention and make up easy reasons to vote easy targets, just like when he was scum in LI. Wait, isn't he just talking about his case in both the previous two posts? It seems he pays more attention to making cases when he's scum rather than when he's town, where he talked more about the other suspects in the quoted posts. Show nested quote + Section 3: Zelblades Reaction to Hyaach v BH is scummy regardless of Meta Zalblade's D2 vote on me (link) and his D1 vote on Pandain, coupled with the accompanying cases, look exactly like his scum voting, and nothing like his town voting. In fact, he spent so much time talking about how much he was "bugged" that scum would make my roleclaim and how Hyaach, who had to be town if I was scum, gave him "scummy vibes" that I thought he was voting to lynch Hyaach, not me. Hey look, we have an actual argument. I like this point. I just searched zelblade's history on MTG mafia and saw him post nothing of the sort. Show nested quote + On June 10 2012 02:28 zelblade wrote: + Show Spoiler + Well since no roleblocker is claiming and i cannot be around during the deadline I will be making my decision now. At the start of the day I believed that bh wasnt lying. Well until ghost brought up the meta changes that is. I can understand him wanting to change his playstyle.... But i think that he would have said something like "I'm going to try to be less agressive" pretend if that was the case no? A minor point of course. I am unsure about his reaction regarding pandain's claim. I definitely think him playing it off was possible, but I found this post wierd. On June 06 2012 11:18 Blazinghand wrote: dude you are aware there are like RBs and shit in this game Note the this is an instant reaction. Let's say someone claims a role that you have and it is exteremly unlikely there are two of the same role. Wouldt you stop for a little while and give it some thought about how you are going to react to what is very possibly a fakeclaim? I don't see why he would post this. By the way, this is before where bh claims he realized he slipped so.... It's not a cover up. What is really bugging me is this - why in the world would a scum bh claim vig? It makes no sense. He didn't know he was getting roleblocked, and doing so would force a 1-1 trade with hyaach at best. Onto hyaach, he has given me scum vibes at the start of the game. Not going to elaborate but his general posting and luckiness made me feel off about him. Claiming rb as scum makes sense, I already explained why somewhere in my filter, so this is a null tell. His jailkeeper claim is sketchy too. Exteremly convenient. The lack of a town rb claiming (not exsisting or simply not willing to claim?) weakens it quite a bit. I can see ehat he means when he says that he shot down every jk scinerio though. It's definitely possible that was faked. However, I'm actually inclined to believe this claim since my gut says so. His recent posting seem to have a fearless aura which makes me feel that he's town. I'm going to just go with bh I guess. ##unvote ##vote: blazinghand Look a tthis post and this vote. This isn't what a town player would do. If you were unsure, you would cast a vote for BH and say "yeah he looks scummier" and yeah, if you're gonna be afk for the rest of the day, you lay out your thoughts. But read this post and ask yourself-- is this how a town player writes a case, or how a scum player tries to duck responsibility and come out looking townie at the same time? In fact, this is not how Zelblade ends any of his vote posts as town-- he never feels the need to justify himself or fill himself full of doubts like this. He probably anticipated me not flipping Mafia and didn't want to look too bad on the wagon. Typical scum play. This doesn't look at all like MtG Zelblade. This looks like LI Zelblade. This looks like scum. Let's vote him, and not waste a lynch on the SK who wants to help town. I don't like how his vote looks either. Yet I have seen many vote like this and still flip up town. However, this point coupled with him talking more about scummy vibes this game than his town game do give me the impression that Zelblade is red, where the first two points were more null. I might change my vote, I'm not sure yet. Giving some examples in this game where he tries to "appear" green would be helpful. In here, you say that the points against me are weak. You even defend me from most of his points, stating that his meta analysis of me was not really accurate, and only a small portion of the case held water. So I am the strongest case? No, from this I highly doubt that this would be your opinion. If you were town. ##vote: Artanis[Xp] Oh and another thing: Guess who was roleblocked n2? Wifom, sure, and whilst it is entirely possible that scum and BH stacked on VE, the other possibility that katina roleblocking him stopped the night kill exsists. It is already somewhere in my filter why scum would claim getting rb'd. | ||
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@ghost My primary reason for pushing the furekip thing was because of the 4 scum thing. Since the game would obviously be over if there was 4 scum im naturally dropping it. His posting and attitude thus far reminds me of town palmar but im fairly unsure. I also typically remain calm in games with one exception where I raged. Meh. Obviously I am fairly annoyed about the situation, but spamming about how lynching me will lead to towns loss does nothing except shit up the thread. Since I apparently managed to miss responding to BH's part 2 earlier. [spoiler] On June 13 2012 05:24 Blazinghand wrote: I'll be glad to take another look at Zelblade's filter. In terms of him putting in extra effort to "appear" green, here's what jumps out at me, plus some other scumminess: He contradicts himself on FK's innocence following a "scumslip": link1, link2 Show nested quote + On June 06 2012 22:49 zelblade wrote: I took his word for it and didnt check the OP -_- I dont think that him claiming that there was 4 scum is scummy since its a somewhat plausible assumption and may be the norm where he plays, but him lying about it being in the op is just... Show nested quote + On June 06 2012 22:52 zelblade wrote: I am actually willing to lynch furekip based on that alone. As said, there is no townie reasoning possible to lie about something like that. Sure scumslips are usually made by townies but I dont think that they would lie about their reasoning like this. The only problem with this is that it is so dumb as mafia too -_- So furekip why did you lie about it? This (link) strikes me as kinda a dumb question that implies "oh, I don't know if RB stops mafia NK, since I am a town player who didn't know what took place last night" by asking it. Subtle attempt at towncred. There's also some weirdness regarding his transition from thinking I'm innocent to thinking I'm guilty D2. I think Zelblade wanted to appear to be gradually convinced, but he kinda fucked it up. Check it out. June 09 00:03 KST (link) Show nested quote + On June 09 2012 00:03 zelblade wrote: Main reason I trusted BH's claim was that I didnt think that he would do it as scum. //snip// He could have pulled the SK card after mislynching hyaach in this case, but it was very unlikely that it would have worked considering how he didnt exactly look stellar either. Scum probably isnt willing to pull off this sort of trade d2. (I THINK) There are a lot of things regarding BH that seem off to me though, will explain more on that tomorrow. So, this looks like a somewhat undecided zelblade. Things "seem off" to him-- zelblade wants to setup his change of heart. Now, 10 hours later: (link) we see hm asking me about my meta (an issue that has been the case since early D1, but had somewhat subsided by D2). Clearly, my meta is on his mind, and, as he mentions in his vote post (link), the same scummy vote post I mentioned earlier, he's voting me because of these meta issues that Ghost brought to the forefront. Now, this is really weird. Because Ghost didn't bring up the meta issues until June 09 08:00 KST. Other than the meta issues, Zelblade doesn't mention the reasons he had 8 hours prior to ghosts post, whne he said Show nested quote + On June 09 2012 00:03 zelblade wrote: There are a lot of things regarding BH that seem off to me though, will explain more on that tomorrow. This is super scummy. He actually didn't have any reasons, he wanted for another player to put some forwards, then hid in the shadow of those reasons, and made an unbelievably scummy vote post that hedged either way. Why that vote post? He's Mafia. He knew during D2, after his team shot me and failed, that I was either the JKed or I was an SK. After my vigi claim and Hyaach's JK claim, he knew for sure that I was the SK, since Hyaach JKed VE. He had to write a post that he could backtrack after either of us flipped. He wrote this way because he knew exactly who was who after the roleclaims. He hid in the shadow of Ghost. The first part about furekip is obviouslly bullshit since its fairly clear I said assuming 4 scum is not that scummy, but claiming that that information is in the main page when its not is scummy. The question is a nulltell. Obviously scum can do it, but it was just me clarifying stuff. On the ghost meta thing I was sleeping in that period of time. I didnt actually mention it before I went to sleep since I was tired and feeling lazy. I also have no clue why scum would decide to switch from hyaach to BH for no reason when neither lynch would bring any cred come D3. | ||
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On June 15 2012 03:40 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Show nested quote + On June 14 2012 18:47 zelblade wrote: The last part regarding my day 2 vote stuff. Hyaach gave me scummy vibes all through day 1, primilarly due to his first couple of posts which I felt were odd as well as a couple of other things. Which is also why at the start of day 2 I trusted blazinghand over hyaach - simply because I felt BH looked much better as opposed to hyaach. When hyaach's JK claim came, I was obviously suspicious of it due to the fact that it could be "confirmed" by using the mafia RB, as well as the fact that towns were unlikely to lynch claimed medics (which was, as he said, what he esentially was in this setup due to a lack of medics.) (Note that I am aware this isnt really the case in TL towns, but hyaach played somewhere else where this might have been the case, assumption here.) However, what made me doubt myself regarding my read on hyaach and BH was a couple of things. First off ghost's post on BH's meta made me realise that BH's posting as compared to his meta was pretty different, and there was something fishy with how he reacted to the claim (I did consider this earlier but thought that it was possible that he was hiding the fact that he was actually a vig, only later realising that his reaction was instant, which was actually pretty suspicious), as well as me rereading hyaach's filter. Hyaach's posting in d2 made me feel that he was more off an annoyed townie rather than scum. It was more of a gut feel of course. So why didn't you say this immediately? As it stands, you gave reasons for why Hyaach is scummy yet you ended up voting for BH. This did not change regardless of how you explain it afterwards. Why didn't you post these reasons when you voted for BH? If you had these reasons before you could've posted them. If you're making them up now it means you didn't have them when you were deciding on your vote which would still make your vote scummy as hell. Actually I did mention my reasons for why BH looked scummy as well. Oh its definately jumbled up but its in there. Show nested quote + And yes I did think that 1 of BH or hyaach had to be scum. Because I didnt realise how SK interacted with being roleblocked till later on, and I didnt actually consider that possibility. The primary reason why I felt the need to I needed to "fill myself with doubt" was because I was extermely unsure. There were things that made both of you look town, as well as things that made you two look scum, and I took a fairly long time to decide which one of you is scum. I find your meta agurement here weak, since I havent exactly been put in a (what I thought) was a 1-1 trade situation as town, and in a spot where I felt extemely unsure between two candidates. Yeah, who would've thought an SK would not be able to kill if he got RBed. That makes a lot of sense. I cant tell if this is sacarsm. If it is I just played PYP wherein SK's shot would not get blocked if he got RB'd, but his bulletproof would be gone, which happens to be completely different from this game. + Show Spoiler + On June 14 2012 06:49 Snarfs wrote: On zelblade, there are two things that make me think that he's the best chance at hitting scum we have tomorrow (that have happened in this game, much of what blazinghand said in his case was meta and I think Artanis showed just how biased meta can be): The first one was the wishy washy post where he ends up voting blazinghand. BH and Artanis have discussed this already and I agree with them that there seemed to be quite a bit of cognitive dissonance between his thoughts and his vote. For reference, the post is here: [click] The second thing I noticed when reading zelblade was his strange insistence that claiming that there are 4 mafia in the game was a reason to lynch furerkip. Zelblade's reasoning wasn't that furer had scumslipped, but rather that furer had claimed that something was in the OP when it wasn't. This misrepresents what furer said though as he doesn't claim anywhere that it says in the OP that there are 4 mafia.: First he tries to push the idea that furer claimed that it listed 4 mafia in the OP even though that's not what ghost says. ghost claims that "It could be an extrapolation, or it could be a scumslip". I personally don't think that scum would ever blatantly lie and believe that furer was guessing the number of scum based on the number of roles available. I find it very hard to believe that anyone actually thought he was saying that it literally says in the OP that there were 4 max scum: Show nested quote + On June 06 2012 22:49 zelblade wrote: On June 06 2012 22:40 ghost_403 wrote: The post that I had originally thought was most scummy from Furer was this one. I don't like the fact that he says he's going to back off on VE since no one is jumping on his bandwagon. However, upon further reflection, I think he did exactly what I would have done in the situation: state that he still thought VE was scummy and move on to doing something else. I don't think that he's nearly as scummy after giving it further thought. This post still bothers me a little: On June 05 2012 07:38 furerkip wrote: If you are wondering where I got 4 from, it's from the maximum amount of mafia as you can see on the 1st page. I've checked the first page, and it doesn't say how many scum are in the game. It could be an extrapolation, or it could be a scumslip. If he does flip scum, I would assume that there are either four scum total, or, more likely, three scum and a serial killer. I still don't like his stances on mislynches outside of LYLO, but that could be easily attributed to him learning to play outside of TL. tl;dr: I was wrong, and my read on him has gone from scum to null. Wait what? I took his word for it and didnt check the OP -_- I dont think that him claiming that there was 4 scum is scummy since its a somewhat plausible assumption and may be the norm where he plays, but him lying about it being in the op is just... Then, zelblade attempts to gain support from other players for a furer lynch. He hardly tries to pressure furer at all and is waiting for others to jump on the wagon first: Show nested quote + On June 06 2012 22:52 zelblade wrote: I am actually willing to lynch furekip based on that alone. As said, there is no townie reasoning possible to lie about something like that. Sure scumslips are usually made by townies but I dont think that they would lie about their reasoning like this. The only problem with this is that it is so dumb as mafia too -_- So furekip why did you lie about it? He then continues to try and push furerkip for the next 3 days even though he has clearly disappeared from the game and would be perfect scum bait for a mislynch: Show nested quote + On June 07 2012 17:50 zelblade wrote: Also I want to lynch furekip if he doesnt give a good explanation for lying about the mafia team numbers thing. Show nested quote + On June 10 2012 11:13 zelblade wrote: Well at least this flip gives us quite a decent bit of info. Furekip and bh should be our next 2 lynches. Thoughts? The first part I covered above. Regarding the second part, from furekips phrasing I think it is pretty clear that he said that the front page stated that there was 4 mafia, when it clearly didnt. I found it exceedingly odd primilarly because there is absoulutely no reason for any townie whatsoever to lie about it, whilst there is a least a probable scum reason to claim something like this (to cover a scumslip). Obviously this doesnt hold water anymore considering that we have 8 players and the game isnt over yet. I found that post of his strange as well and I can't blame you for finding it suspicious. However, you implied you didn't think Meta was important. Yet in the first part of your defense you note Show nested quote + First off ghost's post on BH's meta made me realise that BH's posting as compared to his meta was pretty different I'm curious. Do you think meta is important or not? If you do, there clearly are some similarities to how you played as scum in LI in regards of attempting to showcase yourself as town, where you didn't in MTG mafia. If you don't, then your argument for BH being scummy because of meta goes right out of the water. You can't have the cake and eat it too. Meta is useful in certain cases. I think it worked pretty well in BH's case, though it isnt exactly going to work well in mine. The things that have been pointed out on me by BH are fairly small and unconclusive imo, which can be easily seen when I flip =/ My playstyle is generally is to just go with the flow and post whatever I feel like whenever I feel like regardless of alignment. By the way, artansis, I highly doubt that you find BH's points on me as the strongest case. | ||
zelblade
Australia901 Posts
I guess its exteremely unlikely at this point for anyone else other than me. I still do feel artansis is my strongest scumread. Relatively sure scum pushed my lynch early today =/ I'll be around at the deadline to change my vote if need be though. | ||
zelblade
Australia901 Posts
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zelblade
Australia901 Posts
June 20 2012 10:23 GMT
#1044
Sorry for my play, need to take a break from mafia =/ | ||
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