Emergency Mini Mafia!

On June 02 2012 06:50 marvellosity wrote:
looks nice, looking forward to observing

On June 05 2012 07:33 furerkip wrote:


Wait, are you serious? You just claimed Miller and said that DT shouldn't check on you because you are Miller...

Judging from your ending, you said you've played this game before. To me, that strikes me as a really odd way to just spout out "I'm miller, and you'll get a guilty on me if you check me, so don't check me, OH and by the way, I'd like to make sure you guys realize that my opinion is more important than anyone else's because I'm officially a clear because I just claimed so. And also, I'm not claiming BLUE, just as reminder, I'm a Miller so investigating me will always turn up as a negative result for you."

If you were really a Miller and had game experience, why wouldn't you just make yourself seem more of a townie? If anything, with gameplay experience, you should be able to have seen games were Millers play correctly and don't scream "I'm a Miller."

I would have called this a dumbtell, since I sincerely doubt Mafia would just do this. But fact is, your whole post is made to seem like you are a Miller, and a simple "I claim Miller" would have sufficed. But you went above and beyond that: you wanted to have town not even try to examine you unless, as you said, "I expect you to keep a very close eye on me and lynch the FUCK out of me if it looks like I'm pushing Mafia objectives…", which can be translated to "not at all" because Mafia will never try to make it obvious that they are Mafia.

##Vote VisceraEyes

On June 05 2012 07:43 Blazinghand wrote:
Ah where would we be without a hilarious/bad VE claim?

On a more serious note, given that he's either lying scum OR actually a miller, there's no reason for a DT to check him-- whether he's lying or telling the truth the result is the same.

On June 05 2012 07:37 furerkip wrote:
On another note as to why I think VisceraEyes should be lynched, is because if there are 4 mafia, and 12 players, then we have 1 Mislynch we can work with, which is fine to use on retarded townies. That's just my belief when I play though. Anyone want to add anything?

On June 06 2012 07:01 Blazinghand wrote:
MrZ why don't you think I'm scum

On June 06 2012 07:44 Blazinghand wrote:
Oh shoot Blazinghand is being all helpful and shit and now you all feel dumb for voting him don't you

On June 06 2012 07:44 Shraft wrote:
I haven't read his filter carefully yet, but I think that BH's case on him is sound. He's a possible scum. If you want a more elaborate opinion from me, I'd have to come back to you after reading his filter.

On June 05 2012 12:58 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm trying to decide if kips motivation is coming from a scum standpoint.

On the one hand the suggestion that getting rid of "retarded townies" is somehow beneficial to town is blatantly anti-town and at worst indicative of furerkip pushing a mafia agenda. However, newer players get it in their mind somehow that the actions of townies can damage town somehow worse than the very real consequence of their death, which is shortening the game. Town's aim needs to be lengthening the game, not shortening it. That's why we aim for scum every single lynch, because every scum lynch increases the number of days the game lasts.

What gets me the most about furerkip is the fact that he is operating under the assumption that we're clear to "kill a retarded townie" under the assumption that we have "1 Mislynch we can work with". It's in this post...



...I don't understand the motivation behind this post. Like, as a townie, I'm not thinking in terms of how many townies we can kill before it's game over. I'm thinking in terms of killing scum. I aim for killing scum with the lynch, and so the number of townies "we can safely kill before LYLO" isn't even a concern to me because that number increases every lynch by my expectation, not decreases.

However, all of that being said, I can see him being a newer town not really knowing what's best for town, yet acting like he does to try and establish his innocence, which IS a mark in his favor where I'm concerned. Also it doesn't make sense for scum to be so brashly antagonistic so early in the game, though I am NOT ruling it out.

Ultimately, I'd be interested to see what furerkip has to say about people other than me before coming to a conclusion about where I think he's coming from. Obviously my view is skewed of him right now because his only act in the game has been attacking me.

---

What does everyone else think about furerkip? His stance on my claim is a pretty good one to discuss, what are your thoughts on his interpretation of my claim?

On June 05 2012 08:07 furerkip wrote:


That didn't make any sense, Serial Killers and Godfathers choose to be innocent; if he's a mafia he'll be framer or goon.

Lynching townies is game ending on lynch or lose situations. Lynching bad townies on ML is actually okay in my experience. Makes for better 3-way lynches.

As for the framer part, you have a good point.

Anyways, it seems no one agrees with me, which makes me feel like I'm tunneling, but my FoS is still VE. I'll leave it at that, and won't press it, until I see another scumslip from him.

On June 06 2012 01:30 Pandain wrote:
There is too much talk on VE and Furer. To start out, claiming miller was indeed a good move if town. It gives information to us and suggests that as blues we not check him, allowing us to use our powers on other people.

VE is almost certainly town. There's a small chance he's a badass serial killer, but for him to have claimed(vulnerable to counterclaims) requires an element of risk which I do not think the SK would use. There is almost certainily not 2 millers in this setup, as having two "false" townies, as well as all the other Alignment-Confusing roles would just decimate the cop's role.

Since the risk of being counterclaimed would be so damning, I do not think that VE would have claimed miller if he was mafia/SK. Especially so soon as the day started.

Furer is just playing poorly, but his play does not reek of scum. He voted rashly against VE, the very first(and only) vote so far. I do not think mafia would risk bringing so much attention to themselves. He's not only single handedly try to lynch VE, but he's done it with a reckless aura that excludes mafia.

I think Mr. Zentor is very suspicious, and should be looked at instead. He's offered very weak arguments, suggesting he does not want to force his opinion onto the town. He's offered vague statements that do not really put himself out there("a bit rash", "would probably", "I think, but we should") which do not prove him being mafia but merely cause me to be watchful.

I am also somewhat suspicious of Navillus, but it is more of a general feeling than specific evidence.

On June 06 2012 10:57 Pandain wrote:
I'm going to have to agree with Katrina in that BH is playing awfully weird. I haven't actually ever played a game with him(though I have observed), but the fact remains he has drastically changed his playstyle in the last day or so.

More importantly, its the way that he's accusing. It feels like he's trying to make an argument rather than find scum, as all his arguments start out with the mindset that he is scum. Case in point is Mr. Z, where he refers to him being scum on the basis of "he didn't have the balls to"... etc....

That's a really common scum mistake imo. Scum tries so hard to make a case that they end up being aggressive on a personal level, almost condenscending. Townies could act that way, but only if it was part of a larger, more intense debate.

##Vote Blazinghand

On June 07 2012 06:49 Pandain wrote:
Quick, Obvious Defense of How I'm Not Scum in a Million Years

1. Mafia would never claim vigi, and they wouldn't have let a bandwagon slip up on me so easily(when before, the lynches on BH didn't incite a bandwagon like this). There would have been some sort of counter vote planned.
a. Brings unneccesary attention, doesn't actually help mafia at all(Doesn't gain town cred, merely brings attention to me)
b. Could've been counterclaimed(Super suspicion)

2. Notice the lack of resistance, and a lack of a counter vote which ALWAYS happens, even if slightly. Usually they try to stack up on people. Unless its 100% obvious but I'm far, far , FAR from that assumption.

3. Really, the only possibility is that I am SK. But why would SK do that. It brings me to the attention of mafia, and town. Sure, it may provide cover for shootings, but vigilantes have limited shooting ability while SK is unlimited. I would've been 90% auto found out within a number of days.
a. Also, I would probably be checked, and found guilty.
b. If I instead had decided to pick Appear Innocent, I would be vulnerable to getting shot. And as I've said before, I'm heavily urging medics NOT to protect me, so claiming actually wouldn't have helped at ALL.

What I did was suspicious. I don't deny that.

But its not at all scum

3. Really, the only possibility is that I am SK. But why would SK do that. It brings me to the attention of mafia, and town. Sure, it may provide cover for shootings, but vigilantes have limited shooting ability while SK is unlimited. I would've been 90% auto found out within a number of days.
a. Also, I would probably be checked, and found guilty.
b. If I instead had decided to pick Appear Innocent, I would be vulnerable to getting shot. And as I've said before, I'm heavily urging medics NOT to protect me, so claiming actually wouldn't have helped at ALL.

On June 08 2012 03:02 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I have some thoughts on the matter that I'll post once it's past 11PM, VE.

On June 08 2012 06:27 Katina wrote:


You are just now realizing this?

On June 08 2012 06:40 Katina wrote:
I'm not tunneling VE. I'm going after him because of his claim and overall play day 1. To me it was scummy so therefore I put up a case against him. I didn't know making cases on suspects was scummy.

On June 06 2012 11:23 Blazinghand wrote:
Alright, if we believe Pandain's claim, then why don't we follow up with my course of action: We lynch MrZ (or maybe Navi if he seems scummier). If MrZ flips town, sure, shoot me. But I think he's gonna flip scum.

On June 09 2012 00:20 Hyaach wrote:
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!.

BTW if you read again. BH phrased Pandain words to look like they contradict. First Pandain said, he find how MrZ phrase his words as relatively safe, remaining as a nulltell. Second post Pandian said, MrZ does not have enough post to for him to gauge him. They actually meant the same thing.

Also BH only voted after VE started the wagon. If he was so sure, why wait till VE to cast the first vote?

On June 09 2012 00:47 MrZentor wrote:
What I don't understand is why a scum BH would bet his life on me being mafia.

On June 05 2012 15:54 Snarfs wrote:
I think furer likes to talk a lot and he's going to have a damn hard time keeping this up if he's scum.

Seems like some people are writing him off as a newbie though, which I think is dangerous. He's mentioned that he's played elsewhere so he could be quite experienced. Like I said though, if he likes to play rash and talk a lot and he's scum, eventually he'll have to start contradicting himself so just keep close tabs on what he says.

As far as the mislynch policy: Seems like just a policy. Good to know that he believes this so we can hold him to this belief later on in the game.

@VE, In one sentence you claim that:

Yet you follow it up with this:

Care to explain? Is Katina really that unhelpful as town?

---

@MrZentor: Your first post today is what I would call extremely 'safe'. While I don't expect the same self-voting Zentor as last time, I do expect someone who can get reactions out of people in order to help town. Please don't sacrifice that.