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ghost_403
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1825 Posts
June 12 2012 18:07 GMT
#834
I have every intention of discussing a Zelblade lynch, just not with you. Regardless of your claims, you are fundamentally anti-town, and any discussion involving you will be tainted by your alignment. You are a problem that we as a town have to deal with before we can start discussing other lynch candidates.
They say great science is built on the shoulders of giants. Not here. At Aperture, we do all our science from scratch, no hand holding. Step aside, REAL SCIENCE coming through.
ghost_403
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1825 Posts
June 12 2012 18:11 GMT
#836
On June 13 2012 01:50 ghost_403 wrote:
@shraft: I'm much more interested in why you think we should be lynching zelblade. Blazinghand wrote that solely to save his own skin. Do you really stand by everything that he said in that post?


Shraft is the one who doesn't want to discuss it, unless I missed his post between here and the top of the page.
They say great science is built on the shoulders of giants. Not here. At Aperture, we do all our science from scratch, no hand holding. Step aside, REAL SCIENCE coming through.
ghost_403
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1825 Posts
June 13 2012 23:39 GMT
#877
I'm waiting to see what zelblade has to say for himself.
They say great science is built on the shoulders of giants. Not here. At Aperture, we do all our science from scratch, no hand holding. Step aside, REAL SCIENCE coming through.
ghost_403
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1825 Posts
June 14 2012 00:06 GMT
#879
Lynching an AFK player during MYLO is probably not the best idea.

On the other hand, the town caught a scum Bluelightz during Aperture mafia, and his course of action was simply to leave.

I don't think there's enough to lynch him right now, but I do want his explanation for his actions. BH was right, he has been sheeping pretty hard this game. I don't yet know if that's par for the course with him or not. I need some more time to read over his previous games (PYP:Redux, where he rolls scum, and MTGMM, where he rolls town) before I make a decision on what exactly his play this game means.
They say great science is built on the shoulders of giants. Not here. At Aperture, we do all our science from scratch, no hand holding. Step aside, REAL SCIENCE coming through.
ghost_403
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1825 Posts
June 14 2012 15:35 GMT
#890
I don't (and won't, at least for a bit), have time to read and respond to everything you say in that post, but I do want to make one important note. I think I've figured out the night actions in this game so far.

Night 1
  • Katina RB'd Hyaach
  • Hyaach jailed VE
  • Scum RB'd BH
  • Scum shot BH
  • BH shoots Furerkip


Night 2
  • Katina RB'd BH
  • BH shoots whoever
  • Scum RB'd Artanis
  • Scum shot VE


This perfectly explains all of the (and lack thereof) nightkills and roleblocks in the game. You need a scum roleblocker to explain Night 1, which leads me to believe that Artanis' claim is legit. If he's lying about it, you'd have to find another way to explain the lack of a scum NK Night 1.

tl;dr - Artanis is town or a crafty lying basterd.
They say great science is built on the shoulders of giants. Not here. At Aperture, we do all our science from scratch, no hand holding. Step aside, REAL SCIENCE coming through.
ghost_403
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1825 Posts
June 15 2012 12:03 GMT
#903
Should have time to catch up on the thread in about an hour.

@zelblade: You spent a good portion of this game pushing Furerkip. What are your thoughts on Palmar?
They say great science is built on the shoulders of giants. Not here. At Aperture, we do all our science from scratch, no hand holding. Step aside, REAL SCIENCE coming through.
ghost_403
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1825 Posts
June 15 2012 13:48 GMT
#905
BH was right, we shouldn't have lynched him.

lolololjkjkjk

But his case on Zelblade isn't half bad. People complain about meta a lot, but it's a good place to start looking for scum. Examining his actions this game, you can easily see how a scum could do the things he did. He spends most of the game lurking and playing pretty poorly.

That, and his reaction to the wagon forming on him isn't the least bit townie. If Zelblade truly was town, his mislynch would mean him and the town lose the game. Why isn't he the least bit panicked? If my mislynch was going to end the game, I'd be pissed. I think Zelblade can't argue his innocence because he's not, and he knows it.

##vote zelblade
They say great science is built on the shoulders of giants. Not here. At Aperture, we do all our science from scratch, no hand holding. Step aside, REAL SCIENCE coming through.
ghost_403
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1825 Posts
June 15 2012 13:53 GMT
#906
@BH: <3

@Shraft: Navillus is on my short list of people I still need to look into. I should be back later, and I'll look into him then.
They say great science is built on the shoulders of giants. Not here. At Aperture, we do all our science from scratch, no hand holding. Step aside, REAL SCIENCE coming through.
ghost_403
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1825 Posts
June 15 2012 16:14 GMT
#913
@Palmar, Navillus: You guys on board with this or you think we're doing something horribly horribly wrong?
They say great science is built on the shoulders of giants. Not here. At Aperture, we do all our science from scratch, no hand holding. Step aside, REAL SCIENCE coming through.
ghost_403
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1825 Posts
June 16 2012 21:19 GMT
#928
I think now is probably the best time for me to roleclaim. I'm the detective.

Night 1, checked Hyaach, came back innocent.
Night 2, checked Artanis[xp], came back innocent.
Night 3, checked Palmar, came back guilty.
Night 4, checked MrZentor, waiting for results.

I chose to check MrZentor because he typically plays scummy, regardless of his alignment. He's a huge liability here at lylo/mylo/whateveritscalled.

I would consider Artanis to be considered confirmed town at this point. With three scum total in the game, I think that both a godfather and a framer are unlikely, so I trust that result. Not only that, he's been playing consistently townie through the entire game.

Shraft also strikes me as rather townie, but a lot of the credit I give him is due to his pushing of the BH and Zelblade lynches. He could be a very crafty scum, but I kind of doubt it.

MrZentor plays scummy no matter what. I'm trusting whatever result I get tonight, and will act accordingly. Honestly, neither result would surprise me.

Navillus was the only one who dared to speak out against the Zelblade lynch. This makes me highly suspicious of him. When scum are put into a situation like that, typically they will split up their actions, so they don't act in a group. I suspect that he drew the short straw, and had to oppose the Zelblade lynch. Honestly, I don't know why they did this considering Zelblade was town. Backup plan? It's very strange, all things considering. Nav is where I'm going to spend most of my analysis time in the coming days, assuming I make it that far.

Snarfs hasn't given me a lot to go on, and I'll have to spend some time carefully reading his filter as well. He seems well thought out in his posts, he's on the less scummy side of null, but he's next up for analysis should MrZentor come back green.

tl;dr: Gun pointed at my head, and given one bullet, I'd shoot Navillus.
They say great science is built on the shoulders of giants. Not here. At Aperture, we do all our science from scratch, no hand holding. Step aside, REAL SCIENCE coming through.
ghost_403
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1825 Posts
June 16 2012 21:24 GMT
#929
BTW, my belief that the scum can't screw up my DT checks is based on my scum RB theory.
They say great science is built on the shoulders of giants. Not here. At Aperture, we do all our science from scratch, no hand holding. Step aside, REAL SCIENCE coming through.
ghost_403
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1825 Posts
June 16 2012 22:02 GMT
#940
MrZentor came back innocent.
They say great science is built on the shoulders of giants. Not here. At Aperture, we do all our science from scratch, no hand holding. Step aside, REAL SCIENCE coming through.
ghost_403
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1825 Posts
June 16 2012 22:04 GMT
#942
@artanis, mrzentor: Snarfs + Navillus scum team?
They say great science is built on the shoulders of giants. Not here. At Aperture, we do all our science from scratch, no hand holding. Step aside, REAL SCIENCE coming through.
ghost_403
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1825 Posts
June 16 2012 22:11 GMT
#946
You had asked about why I checked who I checked:

Night 1: Hyaach - It was pretty obvious that he was next on the chopping block after the Pandain lynch, so I checked him. He came back green, which is why I believed his claim and tried to defend him. Obviously, I didn't want to out myself Day 2, so there was only so much I could do. Claim DT to save a JK when we had no idea what roles were in the game? No.

Night 2: Artanis - Honestly, I had a hard time getting a read on him, so I checked him. He was pretty vocal in the thread, so this check gave me a lot to go on. Something that I'm still trying to figure out is what happened to the remaining roleblocks. He claimed to be RB'd Night 2, but no one claimed on Night 3. Kat could have been RB'd. If MrZ comes back saying he was RB'd last night, it's gg.

Night 3: Palmar - Palmar gave us nothing to go on, so I checked him. When he came back red, I decided not to claim, because I honestly thought that Zelblade was scum. Palmar positioned himself in thread so he could vote Zelblade, so I figured he was going to bus his teammate. That's why during Day 4, I tried so hard to get Palmar into the conversation. Didn't work, and he was modkilled.

Night 4: MrZentor - He plays too scummy, regardless of his alignment. I figured my DT check was best spent here, so I would know how to go forward during today. The final green check meant that there was only two scum left, and two people I didn't know their alignments.
They say great science is built on the shoulders of giants. Not here. At Aperture, we do all our science from scratch, no hand holding. Step aside, REAL SCIENCE coming through.
ghost_403
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1825 Posts
June 16 2012 22:13 GMT
#947
@artanis: To explicitly answer your question, I figured that Palmar was going to bus his scummate. Not claiming DT allowed me get off another check. I got greedy, plain and simple. I really thought Zelblade was scum.
They say great science is built on the shoulders of giants. Not here. At Aperture, we do all our science from scratch, no hand holding. Step aside, REAL SCIENCE coming through.
ghost_403
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1825 Posts
June 17 2012 12:51 GMT
#960
I like how the response of the two people I called scum is not "I'm innocent!" but is rather "ghost must be guilty!"

Also, @scum, thanks for not counterclaiming me. It makes my life so much easier.

@MrZentor: I'll tell you like I told Artanis: I got greedy, and didn't claim so I could get off another DT check. Also, my read on Zelblade as being red was cemented by this conversation:
On June 15 2012 21:03 ghost_403 wrote:
Should have time to catch up on the thread in about an hour.

@zelblade: You spent a good portion of this game pushing Furerkip. What are your thoughts on Palmar?


On June 16 2012 00:31 zelblade wrote:
Well apparently this is over. Sorry town this loss is on me.

@ghost

My primary reason for pushing the furekip thing was because of the 4 scum thing. Since the game would obviously be over if there was 4 scum im naturally dropping it. His posting and attitude thus far reminds me of town palmar but im fairly unsure.

I also typically remain calm in games with one exception where I raged. Meh. Obviously I am fairly annoyed about the situation, but spamming about how lynching me will lead to towns loss does nothing except shit up the thread.



Since I apparently managed to miss responding to BH's part 2 earlier.

[spoiler]
Show nested quote +
On June 13 2012 05:24 Blazinghand wrote:
I'll be glad to take another look at Zelblade's filter. In terms of him putting in extra effort to "appear" green, here's what jumps out at me, plus some other scumminess:

He contradicts himself on FK's innocence following a "scumslip": link1, link2

On June 06 2012 22:49 zelblade wrote:
I took his word for it and didnt check the OP -_-

I dont think that him claiming that there was 4 scum is scummy
since its a somewhat plausible assumption and may be the norm where he plays, but him lying about it being in the op is just...

On June 06 2012 22:52 zelblade wrote:
I am actually willing to lynch furekip based on that alone. As said, there is no townie reasoning possible to lie about something like that. Sure scumslips are usually made by townies but I dont think that they would lie about their reasoning like this. The only problem with this is that it is so dumb as mafia too -_-

So furekip why did you lie about it?



This (link) strikes me as kinda a dumb question that implies "oh, I don't know if RB stops mafia NK, since I am a town player who didn't know what took place last night" by asking it. Subtle attempt at towncred.

On June 08 2012 08:46 zelblade wrote:
Does rb stop mafia's night kill?






There's also some weirdness regarding his transition from thinking I'm innocent to thinking I'm guilty D2. I think Zelblade wanted to appear to be gradually convinced, but he kinda fucked it up. Check it out.

June 09 00:03 KST (link)
On June 09 2012 00:03 zelblade wrote:
Main reason I trusted BH's claim was that I didnt think that he would do it as scum.

//snip//

He could have pulled the SK card after mislynching hyaach in this case, but it was very unlikely that it would have worked considering how he didnt exactly look stellar either. Scum probably isnt willing to pull off this sort of trade d2. (I THINK)

There are a lot of things regarding BH that seem off to me though, will explain more on that tomorrow.


So, this looks like a somewhat undecided zelblade. Things "seem off" to him-- zelblade wants to setup his change of heart.

Now, 10 hours later: (link) we see hm asking me about my meta (an issue that has been the case since early D1, but had somewhat subsided by D2). Clearly, my meta is on his mind, and, as he mentions in his vote post (link), the same scummy vote post I mentioned earlier, he's voting me because of these meta issues that Ghost brought to the forefront.

Now, this is really weird. Because Ghost didn't bring up the meta issues until June 09 08:00 KST. Other than the meta issues, Zelblade doesn't mention the reasons he had 8 hours prior to ghosts post, whne he said
On June 09 2012 00:03 zelblade wrote: There are a lot of things regarding BH that seem off to me though, will explain more on that tomorrow.


This is super scummy. He actually didn't have any reasons, he wanted for another player to put some forwards, then hid in the shadow of those reasons, and made an unbelievably scummy vote post that hedged either way. Why that vote post? He's Mafia. He knew during D2, after his team shot me and failed, that I was either the JKed or I was an SK. After my vigi claim and Hyaach's JK claim, he knew for sure that I was the SK, since Hyaach JKed VE.

He had to write a post that he could backtrack after either of us flipped. He wrote this way because he knew exactly who was who after the roleclaims.

He hid in the shadow of Ghost.


The first part about furekip is obviouslly bullshit since its fairly clear I said assuming 4 scum is not that scummy, but claiming that that information is in the main page when its not is scummy.

The question is a nulltell. Obviously scum can do it, but it was just me clarifying stuff.

On the ghost meta thing I was sleeping in that period of time. I didnt actually mention it before I went to sleep since I was tired and feeling lazy. I also have no clue why scum would decide to switch from hyaach to BH for no reason when neither lynch would bring any cred come D3.


This post is exactly what I would say if Palmar was my scummate. I figured Palmar was going to bus his scummate, and told his scummate to distance himself from the other two scum as much as possible. When he posted this, I asked Palmar and Navillus for their opinions, looking for something I could use to push Palmar's lynch the next day.
They say great science is built on the shoulders of giants. Not here. At Aperture, we do all our science from scratch, no hand holding. Step aside, REAL SCIENCE coming through.
ghost_403
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1825 Posts
June 17 2012 16:22 GMT
#961
@navillus: Would you still be trying to lynch me if I hadn't made my DT claim?

@MrZentor: Same question goes for you.
They say great science is built on the shoulders of giants. Not here. At Aperture, we do all our science from scratch, no hand holding. Step aside, REAL SCIENCE coming through.
ghost_403
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1825 Posts
June 17 2012 20:56 GMT
#974
##vote navillus

I'm pretty sure we're still on 48hr cycles?
They say great science is built on the shoulders of giants. Not here. At Aperture, we do all our science from scratch, no hand holding. Step aside, REAL SCIENCE coming through.
ghost_403
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1825 Posts
June 17 2012 21:22 GMT
#984
The only thing still bothering me is the lack of a RB Night 3 and 4. There kind of has to be a scum RB due to the lack of night kills Night 1. BH was supposed to shoot Furerkip, but his shot didn't go through. We know that it couldn't have been Hyaach, because he was roleblocked, which means there has to be a scum RB in the game. That implies that Artanis wasn't lying about being RB'd Night 2, which makes him town.

However, no one has reported being RB'd Night 3 or 4, which is very disconcerting. We can believe that the scum RB chose to RB the night kills, but that requires just a bit of faith.

Believing Artanis' claim to have been RB'd Night 2 confirms him as town and confirms that my DT checks on both him and MrZentor are correct.

I'm still drudging through Navillus' and Snarfs' filters to make sure that I've read them correctly. Navillus' response to my earlier question would help me greatly in my read of him.
They say great science is built on the shoulders of giants. Not here. At Aperture, we do all our science from scratch, no hand holding. Step aside, REAL SCIENCE coming through.
ghost_403
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1825 Posts
June 17 2012 22:28 GMT
#987
@MrZentor: No, it doesn't work that way. Artanis is confirmed town because if the mafia has a roleblocker, there is almost no chance they have a framer/godfather. Without a scum RB, we still have to explain why Blazinghand's shot didn't go through.
They say great science is built on the shoulders of giants. Not here. At Aperture, we do all our science from scratch, no hand holding. Step aside, REAL SCIENCE coming through.
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