|
Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
On June 13 2012 03:07 ghost_403 wrote:
I have every intention of discussing a Zelblade lynch, just not with you. Regardless of your claims, you are fundamentally anti-town, and any discussion involving you will be tainted by your alignment. You are a problem that we as a town have to deal with before we can start discussing other lynch candidates.
See, that's funny. That's very funny. Cause I didn't say you had to unvote me. I also think you know as well as I do that if I *am* the SK, I need to lynch scum today. Discuss the zelblade case, now, before I flip, and when I flip SK it'll be clear my zelblade case is honest.
In fact, Don't even discuss it with me-- discuss it with fuckin Shraft. HE'S RIGHT THERE AND HE VOTED ZELBLADE.
On June 12 2012 21:20 ghost_403 wrote:
@Shraft: Give me a good reason to lynch zelblade.
Is not a good response.
Imaginary poster wrote:
I think zelblade is town because of X, Y, and Z. Blazinghand's analysis is flawed Here, here, and here. You didn't add to it, so I have debunked this lynch This has generated a lively town discussion!
Is a great response!
|
Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
On June 13 2012 03:11 ghost_403 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 01:50 ghost_403 wrote:
@shraft: I'm much more interested in why you think we should be lynching zelblade. Blazinghand wrote that solely to save his own skin. Do you really stand by everything that he said in that post? Shraft is the one who doesn't want to discuss it, unless I missed his post between here and the top of the page.
Ok, that's a fair point. I guess I just don't consider you interacting with shraft and completely ignoring the merits of the case (which can be judged objectively-- just read it and see if it makes sense, and comment on it) to be good enough.
|
Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
I'll be glad to take another look at Zelblade's filter. In terms of him putting in extra effort to "appear" green, here's what jumps out at me, plus some other scumminess:
He contradicts himself on FK's innocence following a "scumslip": link1, link2
On June 06 2012 22:49 zelblade wrote:
I took his word for it and didnt check the OP -_-
I dont think that him claiming that there was 4 scum is scummy since its a somewhat plausible assumption and may be the norm where he plays, but him lying about it being in the op is just...
On June 06 2012 22:52 zelblade wrote:
I am actually willing to lynch furekip based on that alone. As said, there is no townie reasoning possible to lie about something like that. Sure scumslips are usually made by townies but I dont think that they would lie about their reasoning like this. The only problem with this is that it is so dumb as mafia too -_-
So furekip why did you lie about it?
This (link) strikes me as kinda a dumb question that implies "oh, I don't know if RB stops mafia NK, since I am a town player who didn't know what took place last night" by asking it. Subtle attempt at towncred.
On June 08 2012 08:46 zelblade wrote:
Does rb stop mafia's night kill?
There's also some weirdness regarding his transition from thinking I'm innocent to thinking I'm guilty D2. I think Zelblade wanted to appear to be gradually convinced, but he kinda fucked it up. Check it out.
June 09 00:03 KST (link)
On June 09 2012 00:03 zelblade wrote:
Main reason I trusted BH's claim was that I didnt think that he would do it as scum.
//snip//
He could have pulled the SK card after mislynching hyaach in this case, but it was very unlikely that it would have worked considering how he didnt exactly look stellar either. Scum probably isnt willing to pull off this sort of trade d2. (I THINK)
There are a lot of things regarding BH that seem off to me though, will explain more on that tomorrow.
So, this looks like a somewhat undecided zelblade. Things "seem off" to him-- zelblade wants to setup his change of heart.
Now, 10 hours later: (link) we see hm asking me about my meta (an issue that has been the case since early D1, but had somewhat subsided by D2). Clearly, my meta is on his mind, and, as he mentions in his vote post (link), the same scummy vote post I mentioned earlier, he's voting me because of these meta issues that Ghost brought to the forefront.
Now, this is really weird. Because Ghost didn't bring up the meta issues until June 09 08:00 KST. Other than the meta issues, Zelblade doesn't mention the reasons he had 8 hours prior to ghosts post, whne he said
On June 09 2012 00:03 zelblade wrote: There are a lot of things regarding BH that seem off to me though, will explain more on that tomorrow.
This is super scummy. He actually didn't have any reasons, he wanted for another player to put some forwards, then hid in the shadow of those reasons, and made an unbelievably scummy vote post that hedged either way. Why that vote post? He's Mafia. He knew during D2, after his team shot me and failed, that I was either the JKed or I was an SK. After my vigi claim and Hyaach's JK claim, he knew for sure that I was the SK, since Hyaach JKed VE.
He had to write a post that he could backtrack after either of us flipped. He wrote this way because he knew exactly who was who after the roleclaims.
He hid in the shadow of Ghost.
|
Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
On June 13 2012 05:23 Katina wrote:
There's a little less than two hours before the end of the day. When we see what Blazinghanf flips (either SK or Mafia) then we can go from there and decide who to lynch tomorrow. I will go and read over some filters today and start discussing when night comes.
I also recommend ignoring anything that Blazinghand says. He's clearly anti town and anything he says is meant to confuse us and throw us on the wrong track.
Right, but if I'm SK, I *need* to lynch mafia today. You have to admit that. So you should discuss the zelblade lynch for tomorrow, NOW, before I flip, then when I flip it'll be very telling who was willing to promote discussion and who wasn't, for the past 24 hours that my case has been up.
|
Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
Btw, I totally called Katina's play today. Vote me, then lurk. Yeah, you've made a couple posts today, but way to totally be unhelpful with them.
|
Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
On June 13 2012 05:27 Palmar wrote:
who cares, I don't think bh is the SK. An outed SK has no chance of winning the game, so claiming one is dumb as shit, and borderline playing against your win condition and thus cheating. However it's great to claim SK to try and survive for another night if you're scum, since you don't lose outright if you die, as your team is still there.
And yes BH, that's why I'm completely ignoring your case on zelblade. It's basically pointless discussion right now. It won't even tell us much about him once you flip.
A claimed SK *does* have a way to win, and it increases the town chance to win. Did you even read my post? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341663¤tpage=40#792
|
Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
Also, given that I was gonna be lynched 100% after the town RB, for some reason, decided not to save me, I took the only route I could to increase my chance of victory. It increases the town chance of victory too, and the only thing holding people back seems to be an utter unwillingless to even read my plan or my case.
|
Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
On June 13 2012 00:45 Shraft wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 21:56 Palmar wrote:On June 12 2012 18:15 Shraft wrote:
Stop calling BH anti-town. Right now, he is more fucking pro-town than any of us. The chance that BH is a fake-claiming mafia is slim, and our chances of winning are a lot higher with than without him. Let's kill this zelblade guy now.
##Vote zelblade you're only strengthening my resolve to kill BH. Weren't you they guy who said that wanting to kill third party roles was a scum tell in BC's Arkham Asylum?
Any response to this post, Palmar?
|
Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
You know, I get it if you think "well, Blazinghand might be Mafia, and we can't take the risk that he's actually Mafia fake-claiming SK-- a mislynch brings us to 3-scum LYLO tomorrow. We can't believe your fakeclaim, BH, we must lynch you. Scum would do exactly what you're doing right now in your shoes."
That's fine. I get it. What I don't get at all is people who are like: "Ok, Blazinghand is the SK, I believe his claim, but even though it REDUCES TOWN'S CHANCE TO WIN, I want to lynch him anyways. Come on guys! he's claimed anti-town!"
._. As a claimed SK, there's literally only one way for me to win this game. I've laid it out for you (link). If you really think I'm playing against my wincon my claiming, you need to read that post and realize that my plan helps both me and you. It's better than the 3x LYLO you're gonna have to deal with after today. You don't have a chance without me, town, and scum knows it. Scum knows it and wants me dead.
Check out the case against Zelblade (part 1) and (part 2).
Check out what you think town's chances are at LYLO with the most skilled player left, Palmar, playing like this. Do you have 3 solid scumreads? Do you think you'll get any? Do you really think you can stop this scumteam without my help?
You need me.
Don't lynch your last real chance to win this game, town.
|
Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
On June 13 2012 05:38 Snarfs wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 03:00 Shraft wrote:@SnarfsIt was this post that made my suspicion toward Navillus resurface: On June 12 2012 05:49 Navillus wrote:
I mostly believe BH's claim, that said I don't have a target that I would rather switch to, I don't like the lesser but still existing possibility that he's using this as mafia as a last ditch attempt to avoid the lynch, and frankly I don't really care. He's likely SK and no matter how much he sounds like he's trying to play pro-town his wincon is still just as much against us as it is against mafia, he will attempt to screw us in the end and he's a good player, I don't want to give him that chance. I am not going to be the stupid townie that thought we could control or contain him. He clearly will have a plan to win himself and I'm not gonna wait until we have to choose between letting him get the win or mafia. His argumentation here is akin to that of the mafia in Arkham Asylum. (A game where I belive youngminii was found out as scum because he focused a lot on killing the third party SK roles.) What's more concerning is that it doesn't seem to make any difference to him whether BH is mafia or SK, whereas to me, as town, whether he's SK or mafia means a huge deal. If he's mafia, it could be detrimental to us to not have him lynched today, but if he's an SK, I think that keeping him alive would increase our chances at winning, as even if he's roleblocked every night (which increases the chance of our potential RB/other power roles power not getting blocked) he'll still function just as any townie until we've caught a few scum (at which point we can probably just have him lynched anyway). I'd be fine with his post if he tried to argue that the risk of BH being mafia is too high (which I don't agree with) and that he'd rather just kill him than risk BH being mafia. What makes me suspicious is that he says that he doesn't care. The last part of his post also contains an appeal to emotion, which isn't always a scum tell, but it is certainly a bad argument on why we should lynch BH. Hmm, I don't see what you do here. To me, when he says that he's "not going to be the stupid townie that thought we could control or contain him", it seems like he's not willing to put town's interests in the hands of a known anti-town player. In blazinghand's plan, if we assume that he is SK, we would need to rely a lot on his ability to hit his targets correctly. I'd much rather take the game into my own hands than leave it in the hands of someone who doesn't even share a wincon with us.
Actually, the plan only relies on my ability to shoot scum *IF* we mislynch. My shots are a backup plan in the case of mislynches. Overnight, I'm actually shooting at townies to try to keep us at LYLO, if you check out the plan. In fact, if I fuck up and shoot scum, that gives town a HUGE edge.
|
Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
Right, obviously it's better to lynch me than to have a no-lynch. So Shraft and I have voted Zel, with Artanis we are 3.
3 more ! <3333 anyone out there?
|
Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
35 minutes left. Btw, I won't be making some sort of helpful post the second before I die that will be useful to town. I have no reason to help you except when it helps my wincon, and if town wins after I die it's not a victory for me. I would typically do this as a townie though. I'll do my best to be helpful as long as there's a chance it'll lead to me not being lynched, but only when that's the case.
|
Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
Well, town, you've lynched your last real chance for victory. After tonight it's gonna be MYLO with 3 scum. I offered you a chance to win with only 2 scum lynches, now you need 3 scum lynches, and you blew your mislynch on me. If I had rolled Mafia, this would have been kinda ok play I guess-- though I'd have never had the balls to claim Vigi N1 like this. Well, maybe. I'm a crazy guy.
I can't really blame you-- you chose the safer route. Or maybe you were a nonbeliever. Kudos to those who called me out for my scum meta. Pandain, Hyaach, you both could have possible lived in our head-to-heads, but sometimes the cookie crumbles the wrong way.
VE, scum and I probably shot you for the same reason, which is that you're too smart to let live. I wish we had done this together, town. We were almost there. + Show Spoiler +
</3
GL wouldn't be appropriate-- but HF, everyone.
|
Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
PS town RBer y u no claim ;_;
|
Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
Like, man, you totally knew I wasn't mafia cause you RBed Hyaach N1, right? Like wtf.
|
Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
Zelblade Artanis Shraft scumteam
|
Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
Thanks to WBG for hosting and ET and HiroPro for co-hosting! I had a lot of fun this game.
|
Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
On June 20 2012 07:05 HiroPro wrote:
Zelblade - Nice catch on furerkip's statements. It's a pity that he got replaced. You had some good reads early on; you needed to be a lot more active and push them though. It doesn't matter if you have the right ideas if you're not actually doing anything to make other people agree with you or establishing your own innocence. BE MORE ACTIVE. After you came back, it wasn't good. But honestly that was to be expected after missing so much and having everyone come after you.
As a thought, Zelblade, part of the reason I attacked you was that I thought you were a bit scummy, but the other reason is that I felt like you weren't active enough to defend yourself, and hadn't established yourself as town, so I might be able to lynch you.
|
Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
On June 21 2012 11:49 Foolishness wrote:
So when everyone called for the town roleblocker to claim, Katina's reaction through the whole thing was essentially, "lol cool story bro!" The most plausible explanation was that blazinghand was mafia and she blocked the mafia hit. She had absolutely zero reason to claim to the town, especially after Hyaach died.
Just to clarify, at the time I was calling for the town RB to claim, I was saying to do so only if the town RB had RBed Hyaach (meaning that mafia RBed me), since that would exonerate me. I was very, very sure that scum had stacked their RB on me, their NK, to hide it. It turns out they RBed Hyaach and shot me, and I was also RBed by the town RB, but this seemed pretty unlikely to me.
Given that Katina had RBed me, she obviously should not have claimed-- but I never called for the RBer who RBed me to claim.
On June 21 2012 11:49 Foolishness wrote:
And that should her explain her actions and why she was so "blazinghand for sure mafia" in all of her posts. I don't know if the mafia realized she was the roleblocker or not or why they killed her. But I thought the whole situation was very very interesting, and I think there's some good ideas and lessons to be learned from it.
Yeah this was definitely good play. I think she did a good job of staying alive and making sure I got lynched.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
