|
I'm back. I'm eating a 9 ChickenMcNuggets Menu with coke and fries for those who are interested. The one that has the 0.5L coke. Luckily it's only a 3 minute walk from my place but my friend is not around so no leaving the house on this fine sunday eveneing for me, which means I'll have more time for you guys :3
Here's the answer for Zephirdd & prplhz. Red = my answer:
On June 03 2012 19:45 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 10:59 Toadesstern wrote:We lynch Prplhz today Here's why: On May 30 2012 23:16 prplhz wrote: [...]
It's very important for town that we know what role we give them today to eliminate any sort of confusion. If we don't know what role we give them, then they can just argue as if they had any role, and town will just argue along with them. While it's very hard, I think it's very very important that we get a majority+3 on their role so we are absolutely sure what they got. This is even more important than what they end up getting.
Tracker/Medic/Roleblocker combination sounds pretty good to me. What do you mean "without fear of the tracker caliming"?
@Radfield What do you mean "scum are going to lie about their votes anyway"?I consider that mafia agenda. "It is very important for town that we know what role we give to eliminate confusion"? Yeah we eliminate mafia confusion by telling them what they'll get so they can counter pick, 1On June 01 2012 04:15 prplhz wrote: [...]
What do you think about wherebugsgo, Navilus and risk.nuke? On June 01 2012 21:07 prplhz wrote: I still want to lynch wherebugsgo.
[...]
I still want to lynch wherebugsgo. On June 02 2012 03:04 prplhz wrote: I'm okay with lynching Sbrubbles.
[...] On June 02 2012 08:01 prplhz wrote: I'm up for Toadesstern since Sbrubbles isn't happening. That's a lot of people he's willing to lynch without saying a thing about them except for wbg. The "case" on wbg was "WBG hasn't posted, therefore he has to be mafia because he doesn't care about the game" while at least half the players in this game had very few posts at that time. The rest is a bunch of mentions without actually saying why and I already said what I think about stuff like that: 2Looks like people testing watertemperature with their toes to check out what can get momentum without doing something themselves. 3Furthermore Navilus apparently was on his radar for not posting a lot, just like risk yet later on he says Nav not posting is a sign for townieness? Will come to that next but that's really odd. 4On June 02 2012 05:27 prplhz wrote: @wherebugsgo I don't think that Navilus is scum. First, the guy has never played scum before. Second, his only contributions on day1 so far has been a post saying what he voted, and him calling you out. It doesn't look like he's just trying to avoid mod kill and it very much doesn't look like he's scum trying to hide with only 2 paltry posts during the whole day. I don't think first time scum will not do anything during the day than pick on a town wherebugsgo (but then again, are you town?) Moreover, in the last game I played with him he was also unavailable for a part of the game. You say that he didn't comment on the lynch, one thing that all scum knows to do at all times is have some sort of opinion on the lynch. I'd very much like to keep him around for now.
How do you feel that Sbrubbles has argued in a way that's not scummy, but even townie? Navilus defense #1The reasoning here basicly is: "He never played mafia before. I think he would know better than to hide like that with only 2 posts." 5I'd consider that a contradiction. Everyone knows people who play mafia for the first time and what's the most frequent mistake those people make? They're not posting because they're scared and trying to hide to hard. At least that's how I have seen most people play their first time game as mafia. This defense makes no sense from a townie point of view no matter who nav was talking about in his two posts. 6On June 02 2012 05:42 prplhz wrote: Read his town games, read his day0 play this game, first time scum mostly try not to stick out and he absolutely knows how to do this better than this. He is sticking out very much with his two measly posts and I very much doubt any scum would think that this would ever be enough not to get lynched. I expect him to get back and tell us why he's been playing so horribly on day1 but I don't think that he's scum right now.
I'm not saying he's new, I'm saying he's first time scum. Navilus defense #2Again. He says that first time scums mosty try not to stick out, as in they usually want to hide, yet he says "he absolutely knows how to do this better than this". How in the world do you know he can do better than this if he never played mafia before? How do you know he's not scared to post like most mafias are in their first game? Again, this defense makes so sense from a town point of view. 7On June 02 2012 05:44 prplhz wrote:On June 02 2012 04:43 wherebugsgo wrote: [...] I disagree with a Sbrubbles lynch for now because I think the way he has discussed things is not scummy. His tone seems more like a townie talking about setup mechanics than a scum. [...]
On June 02 2012 05:27 prplhz wrote: [...] How do you feel that Sbrubbles has argued in a way that's not scummy, but even townie? On June 02 2012 05:34 wherebugsgo wrote: As for your question on Sbrubbles I don't even know what that means I'm really just asking if you can clarify what you said. Remember his posts from earlier? Sure wbg is not backing up a thing but he's giving his basic thoughts. Now look back a bit and check out the posts prplhz did when he wanted to hear oppinions / accused people. He said nothing, he simply mentioned the names except for the WBG "case". That's as hypocritical as it can get. 8On June 02 2012 09:02 prplhz wrote: Blues always say stuff like "It's really not a good idea to lynch me." and "Trust me on this one." and "Town shouldn't lynch me."
I don't know how I manage to miss it all the time.
I'm most likely joining a Navilus lynch because I want a lynch Before, he was just being afk and his day0 actions didn't look too different from everybody else. I played with him before when he was town and afk, and when he came back he was really sorry about it (and wrote a huge post explaining exactly why he was afk). He doesn't look remorseful at all here, that post looks like he wants any sort of heat off of him and hopes that I'll just keep defending him 'cause that's what I did before.
Well I'm not gonna. I'm not all convinced about this but it's the best we can realistically achieve today I think.
##Unvote Sbrubbles ##Vote Navilus Probably the weakest explanation for a vote I've ever seen. "sup guys. THAT GUY IS TOWN SHUT UP.... Oh, I guess he hasn't said he's sorry for being afk so long. Probably means he's mafia" 9
Fancy conclusion: - Prplhz defending Nav was REALLY odd and I can't imagine someone making arguments like that from a town perspective. Yeah I know I used to use arguments like that as well. L comes to mind where I said something along the lines of "Palmar looks way to scummy to be scum, something's wrong here" but that's because the guy is called Palmar and not Nav. We're talking about some guy who never played mafia before and Prplhz defends him on the basis of "the guy would play better as mafia because he hasn't ever played mafia before"...
- Prplhz is testing grounds before saying something all the time. He keeps asking people "what do you think about X, Y or Z?" and never says something himself and something like 30 hours later he picks one guy he feels comfortable to push and votes him with 3 lines of explanation.
- The voteswitch is horrible. The reasoning, as already mentioning is the weakest I've ever seen and I'd say he did that because that way he can say "sup guys, I voted him to secure a lynch but didn't want to. Btw TOLD YA HE'S TOWN" for towncred.
Lynch Prplhz please, thanks. 1: I don't consider that mafia agenda. I think it's better that we know what role mafia has and mafia know what role they have and what roles we have, than that we don't know any roles, and mafia knows all roles. Again, right now we can't know if scum has roleblocker or framer and that's a bad situation for us. I consider it mafia agend because we will know soon enough wether or not we have a RB or a framer. If noone claimes RB => framer, If someone claimes RB => RB. Yeah it could be faked but come on, who would do that2: I didn't have a huge reasonable for voting wherebugsgo I agree with that but if you look at how the state of the thread was at the time, nothing was happening, so I made a case that doubled as pressure vote and something to discuss. I had more reasonable on Sbrubbles than what you are posting so you are really just misrepresenting me here. Wanting to lynch you was because nobody was hooked on anything else and I have a hard time reading you while other people were thinking that you were scum so it was an okay lynch. I also NEVER SAID that wherebugsgo HAS TO BE SCUM. You are misrepresenting me. I never said you said "WBG HAS TO BE SCUM". I said you never gave any reasoning for voting someone except for WBG and that was as weak as it can get. Also your reasoning on sbrubbles: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=254&topic_id=340727 Yeah right. That's huge, followed byShow nested quote +On June 02 2012 08:01 prplhz wrote: I'm up for Toadesstern since Sbrubbles isn't happening. I can totally see how you're backing up everything you're saying and how that is more than you said about WBG! My point still stands: I see you doing very little to explain your thoughts and only once in a while you explain something with either incredible weak reasoning or with something a townie would never say AFTER checking what people are willing to vote and what not.3: How does it look like that? I want you to answer this question 'cause it looks to me like you're just taking the current buzzword and then applying it to a situation for no reason. If you read my posts you will see that I pushed wherebugsgo and Sbrubbles a lot harder than you make it look like, I'm not testing any waters. What does testing waters even mean? Yes you are. "Testing waters" or water temperature is somewhat like a metapher for a kid standing next to a pool and instead of jumping in the water he's sticking his toe in there to check if the water is okay to jump in. Is that a german thing? Anyways I'm seeing that. You keep on asking people what they think about someone without giving something yourself. And some hours later your decide for one guy (in this case WBG and sbrubbles) to push them once you see there's no opposition. And don't even tell me "yeah but look at what I did with nav". It only works in one direction for obvious reasons4: Yea, different things goes for different people. I played with Navilus in Resistance 2, go read that game. He was afk for a long period of time and he was really sorry about it when he came back. I expected something similar this game but he wasn't sorry when he came back so I decided that he would be an okay lynch. So you're teling me it was some kind of trap because you already played with him? You think not posting is not alignment indicating and therefore you listed him with another lurker to check what people think about them and disagree about nav once someone would jump in and say they're both looking scummy due to their abstinence? Or what are you trying to tell me here? Why did you place him in there if not for the lurker thing? Why would you ask something like that about someone you have a townie-read?5: My reasoning was that a guy who has played some mafia, but hasn't been scum before, wouldn't try to hide by blatantly only make two measly posts. 6: Show me a game where a first time scum has played day1 with only two posts. Only people with well established meta would ever attempt to do that. You say it's happening all the time but I'm saying that it's actually never happening. Show me a single game, 'cause I have never seen it. Do you seriously think that only making 2 posts is a very clear scum tell? Then why didn't you push Navilus at all? This sounds like something you are just making up to use in this analysis. 7: How do you know that he is? He wasn't afraid to posts because I saw him post quite a lot on day1. How is making only 2 measly posts hiding? And are you seriously asking me "How can anybody have any conception about how it is to play scum when they have never played scum before?" because I consider that a very silly question. 5-7 all together: Well I have a conception on how to drive a motorcycle as well and on how to play Zerg to beat Flash in BW ZvT. I never rode a motorcycle nor did beat Flash in a 1v1 yet. I'm pretty sure I'd fail horribly. Sure people have conceptions on how things should work out but that has nothing to do with reality, especially if it's your first time. All reasoning provided in here is SFW and was not intended as a metaphor for something else!
This is all based on "he never played scum before and I think he would be better as scum than what he see here" and this has nothing to do with reality. Sure he might have an idea on how to play or was told to not be afraid to post but in the end doing that yourself is something entirely different so saying "as a first time mafia player he should know better" makes no sense at all.8: I honestly don't even know what the accusations is here. What I do notice is that wherebugsgo gets some credit here for "not backing anything up, but still providing basic thoughts". You're accusing me of being scum for that very same reason in argument 2, and in argument 4 you're accusing me of being scum for having double standards! Hilarious. I'm not giving anyone cred, I only said that what wbg said is at least something people can work with while your usual posts are along the lines of "sup, what do you think of XXX?" while not doing something yourself. It's not about wbg looking good because he's not but he at least managed to make it look nullish while your posts are looking bad and you're asking him to clarify things...9: Yea, maybe stuff is a little weak, but it was on day1. If you read his filter in Resistance 2 then you'll see him being quite sorry for being afk and I was expecting the same here, except if he didn't feel sorry at all because he was scum. Maybe it's weak, I don't particularly think so for a day1 argument. I didn't say "probably means he's mafia", this is blatant misrepresentation. If you read my posts I give my very clear read of him in that situation and that is, and I quote, because you apparently lack the ability to do so properly: "I'm not all convinced about this but it's the best we can realistically achieve today I think." which translate to "null slightly leaning scum". I'm sure that you, in your fervor, can find something you consider scummy about that too, but can you please argue with what I said instead of this misrepresentation. I never intented to quote. If I wanted to quote you I would have quoted you instead of putting the phrase in " " tags. When I put something in " " tags I paraphrase it to what the message reads to me. But glad you agree that the reasoning given by you is really weak after you furiously defended him earlier.
Your conclusion is pretty silly, but overall your analysis is so bullshit that I'm a little less worried about you now. Oh yeah, testing the waters? I think you did that too according to your definition about it, you make short mentions about me in your filter too, and then after Kurumi decides to mindlessly tunnel me for an entire night you jump on it and make a big case. Isn't that testing the waters? What does that even mean? I already answered that part in another post
Summary: My case is not about Prplhz defending a townie as people (Zephirdd) pointed out. My case is on him having no reason to defend him and yet he does so furiously only to make a move back and tell people he might be mafia because he has not given an excuse for his lurking.
Prplhz had no proper reasoning to defend that guy at all, yet he did although other people agreed that his statemens about nav are utterly pointless or wrong.
|
Another update for Zephirdd: I'm going out to buy some food for tomorrow or I'll feel like starving again. Can't live on McDonalds every day or I'll be poor.
Actual important update I voted prplhz and you should do the same
|
+ Show Spoiler [next update] +Back. I've got a pack of salmon, 500g chicken filet, one red parika, a bunch of green stuff (salad ), 2 frozen pizzas for next time I'm desperatly starving, two bars of chocolat (a white one and one with hazelnuts :3) and I've still got plenty of rice and noodles in here, so I should be fine for now. Also I finally took a shower because the heating in my parents place seems to be broken, which meant only icecold water for the last 2 and a half day Oh and I played a little D3 so it took a littler longer than I thought
About the game: Zeph you apparently think what I posted is a bad case. I read what you posted and it seems to come down to "why is defending someone as townie without proper reason something that makes someone scummy?". I gave reason why it makes someone scummy. First of all because it looks like someone having more information than I have and apparently more information than WBG had as well. Probably more information than Kurumi had as well but that's not 100% clear until he flips. Secondly because saying people are town is the easiest way to get towncred. If you say someone and that someone flips town you're the good guy who told everyone to shut up because it's going to be a mislynch. And that's no problem as long as you give proper reasoning as to why you think the guy is town. Mafias however tend to just post a couple of "townreads" early on because that's way easier to do from a mafia point of view than to make up some bullshit on why someone is mafia. You look good if the guy flips town and that's all you want.
But again, the important part here is that prplhz had no reason to defend nav so furiosly and people disagreed with his reasoning for a reason but he still told people that that guy is town. As that seems to be the issue right now for calling my case retarded (well you didn't call it retarded but you seem to think it's wrong & bad) would you mind explaining why the "pattern" I have pointet out is something that should not be considered as scummy?
As things stand right now I think I made my point quite clear. I think what prplhz did d1 should be considered scummy as fuck and all you did is say it's wrong, you asked me why calling nav town should be considred scummy, I answered why it's scummy and you haven't answered. So please tell me why my reasoning is wrong or stop calling my case bad telling people that you think I'm trying to get a mislynch based on that "bad" case.
|
EBWOP
"why is defending someone as townie without proper reason something that makes someone scummy?". I guess that could be misunderstoof easily because that's german grammar lol.
It's meant to be something along the lines of "why is defending someone, saying he's a townie [the guy in question, aka nav] , without proper reason something that makes someone scummy"
|
On June 04 2012 05:19 Radfield wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Alright, I've been filtering for about the last 3 hours and need a break. I have yet to do Toad and Kurumi, but that's because their filters are always a daunting task First of all, prefiltering I was feeling quite strongly that Zephirdd was scum. The combo of weak accusations, flip flopping and the fake blue claim all added up to him being almost certainly scum. However, upon reading his filter I think that is incorrect. His play has certainly been poor, but I do not think it has been scummy. I don't have any real specifics, but his mannerisms and general demeanor are leading me towards him being town. It feels like he has been shooting from the hip this game, which is why he's getting into trouble. Second, I don't think prplhz is scum. His play so far has been straightforward, and his reasoning has been sound. I think he has a solid defense from toad, and I don't think his play in relation to Navillus was scummy. In fact, for anyone who played in WoF mafia, it was the exact same thing I was saying about Zentor in that game. Mafia generally KNOW what is scummy, and play to avoid that. Mafia priority early on is blending in and looking town, and this game day 0 was really really easy for scum to blend in. Navillus was most definitely not trying to blend in or look town. It should have been obvious to me that navillus was town, but that long post of his was really poor and set me going. Day 1 is very difficult if mafia have plenty of neutral things to discuss. Third, some setup speculation: No cop claim today means no 1-shot cop. No bullet means no vigilante(a 2-shot vig in a mini should be shooting night 1). Neither of those are surprising, as mafia giving us medic+tracker is much more likely. If no IC claims tomorrow during our mayor election(talismania is right that this is when is should be revealed), then we pretty much know for sure that we have a medic+tracker. Also, given the fact that WBG died and not me, I assume we have a medic. Additionally, we also have no roleblocker claim, which means we have a framer. There is an outside chance that mafia simply opted to not roleblock, but that seems unlikely to me. + Show Spoiler [Vote Count] +Keep in mind that prplhz's vote apparently did not count, so the 'voting' was 5-5-1.
Framer Sbrubbles Kurumi Zephirdd wherebugsgo sloosh
Roleblocker Navillus talismania toadesstern radfield risk.nuke prplhz
Godfather Hiropro I think Hiropro is town, and I think mafia voted 2-1 in favor of roleblocker. Vocal opinion on Day 0 seemed like it was going to be a landslide roleblocker victory, and I think mafia would be far more likely to double up on RB than on Framer. Additionally, given the fact that we ended up with framer and not roleblocker, it seems very likely that there are too many fake votes in the roleblocker camp. Prplhz, you mentioned that you felt mafia would likely double up on framer, and not roleblocker. Why? I think we can all agree that a 3-0 from mafia is exceedingly unlikely. So that leaves us with 1 scum in the framer camp, and 2 scum in the roleblocker camp. I am in the roleblocker camp, and I also have 2 town reads in the roleblocker camp, which leaves the situation like this: From my vantage point: RoleblockerNavillustalismaniatoadesstern radfieldrisk.nuke prplhzAll of a sudden this looks very easy. Even if I am wrong about 2 scum being in the roleblocker camp, I think we can all agree that there is at least one. It's possible I am wrong about prp or talismania, but I doubt it right now. Both their filters look solid. So that means one of risk.nuke or Toad is very very likely scum in my opinion. In fact, it's very possible(even likely) that both are scum. To me right now that scum feels like Toad. As I mentioned I haven't re-filtered him yet, but I've had a slight scum read on him all game. Risk.nuke I'm pretty null right now, but I got an 'ok for now' feeling from his filter. He's not putting in much effort, but he has content despite that. Anyways, that's not a case on Toad by any means, but I wanted to write that out. Back to the grind. Sbrubbles, you mentioned that Hiropro preferred framer to godfather on D0, but I don't see it. Care to help me out?
Well not much to say about this from my point of view because there's really nothing I can "answer" but here's one thing you should know yourself:
If that's honestly a reason to lynch into me you have to lynch me every single game. I have not been able to make you think I'm a townie in a single game ever since the Annul disaster. The important thing here is that that's for both alignment. You called me "a little scummy" in everyy game d1 we have played after the annul game. That's right in EVERY. Was I mafia in every of those games?
That's the reason for all the "you probably should ask Radfield, I heard he's really good in figureing me out" jokes I keep doing. Remember PYP were I flipped town (still ongoing) and you're coaching it? Remember C9++ #2? You called me mafia d1 as well and I said something along the lines of "well that probably confirms me as town" if I remember correctly. You called me "a little suspicious" in the first of those games foru hosted (don't know the name anymore, the one with spies and people being send on a mission) and yeah you were right that game but as mentioned you say that every game about me.
I guess that Annul game was more traumatic than I thought if that's what is has come to. Same as Zephirdd here, give me something to work with and I'll work with it.
|
On June 04 2012 07:09 talismania wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 05:19 Radfield wrote:
[...]
From my vantage point:
Roleblocker Navillus talismania toadesstern radfield risk.nuke prplhz
All of a sudden this looks very easy. Even if I am wrong about 2 scum being in the roleblocker camp, I think we can all agree that there is at least one. It's possible I am wrong about prp or talismania, but I doubt it right now. Both their filters look solid. So that means one of risk.nuke or Toad is very very likely scum in my opinion. In fact, it's very possible(even likely) that both are scum.
To me right now that scum feels like Toad. As I mentioned I haven't re-filtered him yet, but I've had a slight scum read on him all game. Risk.nuke I'm pretty null right now, but I got an 'ok for now' feeling from his filter. He's not putting in much effort, but he has content despite that.
Anyways, that's not a case on Toad by any means, but I wanted to write that out. Back to the grind.
Sbrubbles, you mentioned that Hiropro preferred framer to godfather on D0, but I don't see it. Care to help me out? This is almost exactly how I feel. Anyone who is not looking at the game through the lens of the d0 votes needs to do so. There's a couple of assumptions to get to mafia having framer that should be stated though: 1) HiroPro is town. Therefore scum did not vote 1-1-1 and likely voted 2-1-0. A big assumption I suppose but as I wrote d1 I can't imagine that if he were scum his scumbuddies would have let him vote GF. Maybe if he's scum with Risk.nuke, who brought up the 1-1-1 thing but that's the only scenario I can see it in. 2) No one claiming being roleblocked means that mafia don't have a roleblocker - the assumption implicit there is that mafia wouldn't use their roleblocker against themselves, knowing that using it on town would give away how the votes played out. Or maybe they didn't use it at all. Would a mafia roleblocker have to use their power? I'm really iffy on this assumption. It depends on if the scum team was smart enough to realize that using the roleblocker would immediately point to two people on the framer list. I feel like they would be but who knows. So - if there is a framer it's either toad + risk.nuke Radfield + prp I was actually leaning towards toad + radfield earlier because of how buddy-buddy toad acted towards him but now it's clear that is unlikely to be the case, unless they think they need to bus for some reason I guess. Toad and prp can't be together because of the strength of the case toad is making, with the same caveat as with toad and radfield. Radfield + prp is the "conspiracy theory" pair. To make that case you have to assume that radfield freely cast doubt on prp, even agreeing with prp being shot (although come to think of it I guess that if he was scum he would know that town didn't have a vig so scratch that), and then backed down later. To complete the conspiracy theory, add in zephirdd, whom rad and prp acted together to save by getting the navilus train rolling. The main problem I can't get past with this pair is prp's play to outright claim "Oh my vote didn't count, btw" Is that really a super-clever scum excuse? I mean (1) having that idea is borderline genius and (2) actually following through with it is incredibly ballsy. Why risk that when you could just lay low amongst the 6 RB voters? Toad + risk.nuke on the other hand has little to argue against it (there's not much to argue for it either I suppose - toad is as confusing and difficult to understand as he was to me pick your power. Risk-nuke has a lot less thread presence than he did that game but he hasn't really done much yet either). They haven't interacted much with each other. Toad has thrown out a few names, as has risk, but each other's have not come up I don't believe. I don't know who the third would be. I would add zephirdd again because toad said he didn't like the zephirdd lynch d1, but risk.nuke has come out in favor of such a lynch today. One of the other framer voters I guess. If assumption (2) above is wrong and it's 1-2-0 and there is a roleblocker and not a framer, then it's some pair out of sbrubbles, kurumi, zephirdd, and sloosh Which means it's unlikely to be sloosh and sbrubbles because of sloosh's hard pressure at the end of day one (unless that was just really forward-thinking play or something. It is interesting that sloosh hasn't continued to press sbrubbles day two. Acually a quick filter check shows that he's away this weekend so that explains that.). It's also unlikely to be kurumi and zephirdd because of kurumi's stance toward zephirdd. Any combination of the others is possible in my eyes. 1) You say you don't believe in the 1-1-1 unless risk is mafia. Later you say you think it's me + Risk ? 2) Prplhz's vote can be used for 1-1-1 as well, you considered him the alternative yet you say it has to be 2-1 either way? 3) You say my case on Prplhz is strong and therefore doubt I'd be bussing him bud at the same time doubt Rad would bus me? What's the difference that makes you think one is possible and the other one is not? 4) Prplhz playing using the "invalid vote" thing. You played PYP as well? You saw sent "counterclaim" risk & marv as mafia? You saw barundar counterclaim the medic as SK ? I'd say at least equally ballsy and as mentioned the reason I don't consider that an argument anymore lol 5) I am as confusing as in PYP? What did I flip in PYP again? 6) Yeah the third in that "mafiateam" (I'm making it in " " tags because I'm not mafia...) would be Zephirdd. Because frankly Zephirdd and I like each other so much. As seen when I did the case on prplhz.
|
On June 04 2012 07:27 Radfield wrote:Why is Toad scum. Or rather, why do I think Toad is scum. This may be slightly long winded, and it certainly won't be concise. Toad is an active player as scum, and has fooled me twice before because of that. There is no clear and decisive scum agenda Toad is pushing, and there is no one thing that makes him scum(though I did find my first ever real-live damning scumslip). Instead what I have is a body of evidence that shows Toad is not playing with Town goals in mind. He is playing in an effort to lead mislynches, and with a goal of keeping town moving in the wrong direction. I find very little scummy in Toad's Day 0 play. With lots to contribute and lots to discuss it is extremely easy for an active scum player(like Toad) to blend in on Day 0. Apart from the fact that he begins to buddy me very early on, I see little that leads me to think he is scum in the first 24 hours. Day 1 however is a very different story. I'd like to talk about 4 main points. First, the pushing of Hiropro. Second, the WBG flip flop(which has been discussed, but not adequately). Third, and most damning, the double scum slip. Fourth and lastly, the case on Prplhz. There are also several additional small isolated issues which I will mention. Please remember that none of these points by themselves indicate that Toad is scum. But taken as an entire body of evidence they amount to a damning case against a very likely scum player. I'd also like to mention that this case is NOT based on my previous analysis of Framer/Roleblocker/GF votes. That was an exercise to narrow down my focus, NOT the basis of a case. However I am confident that I was correct in my assessment. Point Number 1: the attack on HiroproWhat I'd like to represent is that Toad attempts to push a lynch onto Hiro very strongly. A lynch not based on whether or not Hiro is scummy, but rather based solely on the fact that Hiro voted GF. Additionally, Toad states strongly and ephatically that Hiro is scum.... and then waffles away and gives alternate targets. Let me say that again, he is almost sure that hiro is scum, going so far as to say "Hiro is basicly a claimed mafia", but then offers up other lynch options. What!? If you think a guy is for sure scum, and has slipped hard, you don't just offer up other options. Also, witness the tone: First, incredulity and confusion, but no accusation: Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 04:39 Toadesstern wrote: That's got to be a joke. Godfather? Why?!?! It was clear the decision would be either RB or framer at some point and you chose to pick Godfather and completly wasted your vote? Someone explained (I think risk?) d0 that the only solution to not screw up as mafia is to pick 1-1-1. 1 guy votes RB, one guy votes framer, one guy picks GF because that way they add 1 to each thing and don't change a thing.
So wtf? Second: Weirdness and oddness, with some discussion about why you should stick to the plans. Again, no hint of a strong accusation here. An accusation perhaps of not being a team player, even equating his play to a townie from a different game, but both those things actually soft accuse Hiropro of being Town, just not a team player. Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 05:29 Toadesstern wrote:
Well you've got to agree that it's looking weird that you are apparently the only one who voted GF when we talked about how 1-1-1 is the only way for mafia to not screw up and all the talk d0 was either about RB > framer or about framer > RB. Why didn't you talk about this? This is essentially the same thing I was talking about in PYP when talking with risk. I have no problem with people telling me they think otherwise and that we should change a "plan" but I do have a problem with people ninja-voting without telling us screwing us over. If what you said is reasonable (and I don't think it is) you should have tried to explain to us why what you said is reasonable. Yet here you stand, voting GF and it's apparently not important enough to you what role mafia gets because you haven't told us so and you still voted GF and not, like everyone else either RB or framer. That's really odd. Next post and several hours later Toad drops down his vote without further discussion. No additional points raised, but we've gone from gentle admonition to wanting him to hang. He follows it up with this post which is a giant contradiction. A) thinks Hiro is basically a claimed mafia. B) is willing to lynch some other guy who is NOT a claimed mafia in Toads eyes. That does not jive one bit. Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 21:50 Toadesstern wrote: I'd like to lynch into hiro or wbg at this point.
Hiro is basicly a claimed mafia who says "well yeah, but would a mafia claim mafia?" which just doesn't work for me anymore since PYP.
WBG is just plain ridiculous right now and he's way better as town than what we see here. Add that to what I mentioned earlier about him (not knowing the d0 cycle was only 24 hours, not posting) and I feel like wbg would be the best vet to lynch into if I can convince you to lynch into a vet :p
Toad then goes on to only softly push Hiropro. First adding on a convoluted reason for him to be scum, which is quickly shown to be incorrect, and then falling into softy urging posts like these: + Show Spoiler +On June 02 2012 06:17 Toadesstern wrote:1. Toad says hiro votin GF is incredible scummy 2. Rad posts: Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 05:08 Radfield wrote: [...]
Did we actually just catch scum by hiropro voting godfather?? Time to filter!!
3. ... 4. Nothing? What was your result of filterting him? That statement I quoted sounds really strong and yet I'm the only one voting hiro when noone has disagreed with it except for hiro? Is there a reason for that? On June 02 2012 06:39 Toadesstern wrote: Any chance hiros lynch is going to happen? That guy is not playing at all and I still think the GF vote is as scummy as you can get.
That being said Zephird isn't really as much as an option for me... Hiro voted Zephird and I doubt they're bussing on d1 lol On June 02 2012 07:41 Toadesstern wrote: Ok screw this, hiro is not going to happen... need to think and read and vice versa This from a guy who felt he had bagged a scum straight up. The real gist here is that Toad's tone does not follow any kind of cohesion. He's hot and cold and up and down on hiro, but always with a pushing towards lynch. Point 2: The bugs flip=flopFirst Toad makes 3 posts that point him having a pretty null read on bugs, and certainly not a scum read: + Show Spoiler +On June 01 2012 01:10 Toadesstern wrote: [EDIT: referring to bugs:)Well the game only now started and I probably look like I don't care right now as well as I'm not posting at all. The thing is that we're lacking activity right now, we haven't even got an update from everyone what they've voted and we need that.
On June 01 2012 01:52 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 01:25 prplhz wrote: [...]
@Toadesstern What do you think about it? You are acting as if my post had "Toadesstern" in place of all the "wherebugsgo"s. You are saying that you want more content and that the thread is in a bad state, and then you say that you're not going to do anything until everybody has been in here and told you their vote. That's pretty self contradictory behavior. Give me something. I'm saying that I have the same read about multiple people right now. It could be on purpose, it could be frustration and it's more of a sign of lazyness than an indication of scummyness right now. On June 01 2012 02:35 Toadesstern wrote: I read the OP once every game and when questions like those appear I check the parragraph again. I was frankly quite shocked that wbg didn't know it's only a 24h cycle because again. Those are the things I keep checking again and again to make sure I understand the details.
I'd take the "didn't know about the 24h"-thing much more as an "not caring about the game"-argument than the fact that people are posting so little right now. However, without mentioning him again, he now wants to lynch bugs. Not only that, but he's adding in bugs when he has already apparently found a 'claimed mafia' in Hiropro. Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 21:50 Toadesstern wrote: I'd like to lynch into hiro or wbg at this point.
Hiro is basicly a claimed mafia who says "well yeah, but would a mafia claim mafia?" which just doesn't work for me anymore since PYP. WBG is just plain ridiculous right now and he's way better as town than what we see here. Add that to what I mentioned earlier about him (not knowing the d0 cycle was only 24 hours, not posting) and I feel like wbg would be the best vet to lynch into if I can convince you to lynch into a vet :p
Also, look at his reasoning: not knowing the cycle was 24 hours, and not posting. Yet those are the exact thing that Toad mentioned earlier, not as scummy though, but as null! So how do those things suddenly become the basis of a case to rival hiropro, someone he thinks is very likely scum. Straight up contradictions. Point 3: The scum slipsLet me be clear that I have never before found what I consider to be a true 'scum-slip'. The word gets bandied about on this site, and can mean pretty much anything. What it really means though, is to be in possession of information that townies could not possibly have, and only mafia could have. Show nested quote +On June 02 2012 10:16 Toadesstern wrote: got ninja'ed About sbrubbles: I'll tell you once d2 has started for obvious reasons, sry. hmm, where's the scum-slip you ask? I missed it at first too, but it's very clearly there. Toad is absolutely 100% he will be around on Day 2. There is only 1 way, and I do mean 1 way, that Toad can be convinced he will live till Day 2. But maybe it was just a slip of the tongue, and he's not actually sure he'll survive the night.... Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 00:35 Toadesstern wrote: Okay back and I know I promised I would talk about who those 2 guys are I mentioned and why they are mafia but I realized I was retarded when I said that. See you d2 :p Except he does it again!! He confirms the scumslip. This is a guy who just recently was shot night 1 in WoF mini-mafia, and has been getting shot more and more by mafia. There is no reason at all he should be certain he'll survive the night. In fact, if he is town he should be expecting that he is one of the more likely shots. In fact, he even posts his prplhz case right before the deadline, as if he might get shot. But how then is he 100% certain he'll survive till Day 2. There are no vets, and no other way he could be certain he will survive. The only way to be certain is if he is scum. Point 4: The prplhz caseI'm going to make this brief, as I feel there is already a body of evidence that shows Toads guilt without this. However Toads push on prplhz is indicative of a scum-push. Very often, when a scum player tries to push a townie, he does it by citing the wrong reasons. There are reasons to see prplhz as scummy, but NOT because of his defense of Navillus. The key is that prplhz defended Navillus several times, but then switched over and voted for him early on in the wagon(3rd vote). There is an argument to be made there that prplhz was scummy in doing that. Toad touches on that, but his focus is squarely on the fact that prplhz should not have found Navillus scummy in the first place. This is a competely backwards approach, one because prplhz was clear in his reasoning, and second because townies are defended all the time along the same lines prplhz was using. Toad is pushing prplhz for the wrong reason, something which scum do all the time. This is not a particularly strong point, but a valid one nonetheless.
Additionally, Toad has been buddying me all game, asking for activity without contributing himself and appealing to dead players. Add in the 4 points of my case, and you have a player who is almost assuredly mafia. Vote for Toad. In fact, I don't even mind if you vote in the voting thread too, as I'm fairly sure he is scum. ##Vote: Toadesstern
Going to break the answer down to your 4 parts:
Part 1: I thought Hiropro is a semi-vet. That's why I attacked him for the GF vote because I thought a vet would be smart enough to figure out that it's either RB or framer with all the talk d0 and I thought I caught him lying about why he voted for GF. Furthermore I would have considered a vet who really thinks that GF could be an issue to be more talkactive about what he found out BEFORE the end of deadline. That was basicly it. And yeah it collapsed the moment I was told hiro is not a vet. If you had told me "i wasn't sure it's between RB and Framer and therefore voted GF" I would have voted you as well. About the confirmed... Give me one game in which I don't talk about confirmed people. That's an exaggeration I can't get rid of. I called VE confirmed mafia in LV and he flipped town lol.
Part 2: I added WBG to the list because I thought the 24-hour thing IS something weird while the not talking part wasn't considering that half of the players had not started talking at that time
Part 3: That's me referring to the deadline. As in "See you tomorrow and in I'll answer that 10 seconds short of the deadline with one big post". Also I got A LOT of criticism for mentioning I'm a n1 target in LV. Go read n1 of that game Rad. I thought I should just keep it neutral this time because people called me disruptive in LV for that reason.
Part 4: Well and I simply disagree with part 4.
"Part 5:" The buddying thing. I'm not buddying I'm joking around and ever since the Annul game I am joking around with people who have been in derpgames like that and I still find it funny that you called me most-likely-town that game. I'm "buddying" you in every game. I did the same in c9++ #2, I did the same in the PYP you coached. I was town in both...
|
Basicly: Read PYP and LV (n1, especially wbg's answer ) and nothing you stands as a reason to think I am mafia unless.
The scumslip is obviously bullshit. As you pointed out. I said I'm going to make a big post and see you d2. I was referring to the post about Prplhz. That's why I said I don't people to talk about reads n1 when I saw Kurumi go at prplhz. I was referring to my case on prplhz and that shows I am referring to the deadline when I'm saying "see you d2" and not to some other post that isn't even existing...
|
On June 04 2012 08:11 Toadesstern wrote:Basicly: Read PYP and LV (n1, especially wbg's answer ) and nothing you mentioned stands as a reason to think I am mafia unless you consider the scumslip as something. The scumslip is obviously bullshit. As you pointed out. I said I'm going to make a big post and see you d2. I was referring to the post about Prplhz. That's why I said I don't people to talk about reads n1 when I saw Kurumi go at prplhz. I was referring to my case on prplhz and that shows I am referring to the deadline when I'm saying "see you d2" and not to some other post that isn't even existing... EBWOP
|
Ok if I am referring to Day2 show me the big post on d2 I was referring to on d2...
Here's a little quote from WBG from LV after I said I'm probably going to die n1:
On May 30 2012 09:48 wherebugsgo wrote: Shut up Toad you're not worth a mafia bullet. You cause so much disruption regardless of alignment it's no wonder everyone calls you hypnotoad.
We kill gambit man today. He ninja voted ET yesterday and he's said nothing. Eat shit and die, scum.
##vote Gambitx32 and I've got that a lot. I take the neutral stance on wether or not I'm going to die n1 as an improvement because I was told to not talk about it anymore A LOT.
|
On June 04 2012 08:16 talismania wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 07:45 talismania wrote:On June 04 2012 07:27 Toadesstern wrote:On June 04 2012 07:09 talismania wrote:On June 04 2012 05:19 Radfield wrote:
[...]
From my vantage point:
Roleblocker Navillus talismania toadesstern radfield risk.nuke prplhz
All of a sudden this looks very easy. Even if I am wrong about 2 scum being in the roleblocker camp, I think we can all agree that there is at least one. It's possible I am wrong about prp or talismania, but I doubt it right now. Both their filters look solid. So that means one of risk.nuke or Toad is very very likely scum in my opinion. In fact, it's very possible(even likely) that both are scum.
To me right now that scum feels like Toad. As I mentioned I haven't re-filtered him yet, but I've had a slight scum read on him all game. Risk.nuke I'm pretty null right now, but I got an 'ok for now' feeling from his filter. He's not putting in much effort, but he has content despite that.
Anyways, that's not a case on Toad by any means, but I wanted to write that out. Back to the grind.
Sbrubbles, you mentioned that Hiropro preferred framer to godfather on D0, but I don't see it. Care to help me out? This is almost exactly how I feel. Anyone who is not looking at the game through the lens of the d0 votes needs to do so. There's a couple of assumptions to get to mafia having framer that should be stated though: 1) HiroPro is town. Therefore scum did not vote 1-1-1 and likely voted 2-1-0. A big assumption I suppose but as I wrote d1 I can't imagine that if he were scum his scumbuddies would have let him vote GF. Maybe if he's scum with Risk.nuke, who brought up the 1-1-1 thing but that's the only scenario I can see it in. 2) No one claiming being roleblocked means that mafia don't have a roleblocker - the assumption implicit there is that mafia wouldn't use their roleblocker against themselves, knowing that using it on town would give away how the votes played out. Or maybe they didn't use it at all. Would a mafia roleblocker have to use their power? I'm really iffy on this assumption. It depends on if the scum team was smart enough to realize that using the roleblocker would immediately point to two people on the framer list. I feel like they would be but who knows. So - if there is a framer it's either toad + risk.nuke Radfield + prp I was actually leaning towards toad + radfield earlier because of how buddy-buddy toad acted towards him but now it's clear that is unlikely to be the case, unless they think they need to bus for some reason I guess. Toad and prp can't be together because of the strength of the case toad is making, with the same caveat as with toad and radfield. Radfield + prp is the "conspiracy theory" pair. To make that case you have to assume that radfield freely cast doubt on prp, even agreeing with prp being shot (although come to think of it I guess that if he was scum he would know that town didn't have a vig so scratch that), and then backed down later. To complete the conspiracy theory, add in zephirdd, whom rad and prp acted together to save by getting the navilus train rolling. The main problem I can't get past with this pair is prp's play to outright claim "Oh my vote didn't count, btw" Is that really a super-clever scum excuse? I mean (1) having that idea is borderline genius and (2) actually following through with it is incredibly ballsy. Why risk that when you could just lay low amongst the 6 RB voters? Toad + risk.nuke on the other hand has little to argue against it (there's not much to argue for it either I suppose - toad is as confusing and difficult to understand as he was to me pick your power. Risk-nuke has a lot less thread presence than he did that game but he hasn't really done much yet either). They haven't interacted much with each other. Toad has thrown out a few names, as has risk, but each other's have not come up I don't believe. I don't know who the third would be. I would add zephirdd again because toad said he didn't like the zephirdd lynch d1, but risk.nuke has come out in favor of such a lynch today. One of the other framer voters I guess. If assumption (2) above is wrong and it's 1-2-0 and there is a roleblocker and not a framer, then it's some pair out of sbrubbles, kurumi, zephirdd, and sloosh Which means it's unlikely to be sloosh and sbrubbles because of sloosh's hard pressure at the end of day one (unless that was just really forward-thinking play or something. It is interesting that sloosh hasn't continued to press sbrubbles day two. Acually a quick filter check shows that he's away this weekend so that explains that.). It's also unlikely to be kurumi and zephirdd because of kurumi's stance toward zephirdd. Any combination of the others is possible in my eyes. 1) You say you don't believe in the 1-1-1 unless risk is mafia. Later you say you think it's me + Risk ? 2) Prplhz's vote can be used for 1-1-1 as well, you considered him the alternative yet you say it has to be 2-1 either way? 3) You say my case on Prplhz is strong and therefore doubt I'd be bussing him bud at the same time doubt Rad would bus me? What's the difference that makes you think one is possible and the other one is not? 4) Prplhz playing using the "invalid vote" thing. You played PYP as well? You saw sent "counterclaim" risk & marv as mafia? You saw barundar counterclaim the medic as SK ? I'd say at least equally ballsy and as mentioned the reason I don't consider that an argument anymore lol 5) I am as confusing as in PYP? What did I flip in PYP again? 6) Yeah the third in that "mafiateam" (I'm making it in " " tags because I'm not mafia...) would be Zephirdd. Because frankly Zephirdd and I like each other so much. As seen when I did the case on prplhz. 1) if it's 1-1-1 then I doubt you're scum because of how involved you were in the d0 discussion and because you pushed hiropro so hard yesterday. So yes, if it's 1-1-1 I think risk.nuke could certainly be involved. But I don't buy that it is 1-1-1. 2) obviously anyone's vote can be used for 1-1-1 if it is that way, but again I don't think it is. 3) I say that you are making a strong case on prp and are therefore unlikely to be mafia with him. I say that radfield is making a case on you and is therefore unlikely to be mafia with you. Both are the same to me - I think you misread. 4) of course prp doing that is possible. Hence the paranoia of playing mafia, "the educated guessing game of epic proportions" or whatever tl calls it. I'm not ruling prp out by any means but at some point you have to favor the simplest explanation. 5) true, which is why I put that bit in the "there's not much arguing for toad and risk" section. 6) the third could be anyone in any of these scenarios really but you're right in that I hadn't really considered your interactions with zephirdd today relative to yesterday. Actually, another point in light of the case rad just posted: why did you reply so defensively to my post at all?
Because you said some things that are not true. Should I ignore it and hope people see it themselves?
|
On June 04 2012 08:34 HiroPro wrote:EBWOP: My formatting is all screwed up.
Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 00:29 risk.nuke wrote: @Hiro: Will I need to repeat every little thing so that your tiny brain can puzzle it together. I posted additional reasons for why zephirdd is a good lynch. It was not a new case because zephirdd already had a case on him. There's no need to be rude. You never mention what parts of my case or talismania's reads or Radfield's reads on Zephirdd you agree with. The reasons that you mention have nothing to do with whether or not he is mafia. You are being extremely inactive and not making any proper reads or cases of your own. Don't expect me to treat you like confirmed town.
I agree with Radfield. I don't find the "going to be there d2" scummy but both the push on me (the uneven nature of it, especially when I look at people like Sbrubbles who also pushed me but did it very differently) and the really strange accusation on WBG (especially when Toad attempted to use this in his case against prplhz) are scummy. Toad's response to my questioning on the WBG part of his case against prplhz was bad, especially since he misrepresents prplhz (says that prplhz continued to push for WBG lynch), when in fact that was not the case at all. Zephirdd and risk.nuke are both looking a little weird to me, but Toad's behavior is not only very scummy, but has clear mafia motives. ##Vote: Toadesstern (I will not be voting in the actual thread until much closer to the deadline) I never included it in my own case.. I said what Prplhz said about WBG is a null because you could say the same thing about at least 5 other people. I said the 24-hour thing however IS weird. And that was what? 24 into the game with half the thread not posting? Yeah that's got to be a really strong post ...
On June 04 2012 08:35 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 08:20 Toadesstern wrote:Ok if I am referring to Day2 show me the big post on d2 I was referring to on d2... Here's a little quote from WBG from LV after I said I'm probably going to die n1: On May 30 2012 09:48 wherebugsgo wrote: Shut up Toad you're not worth a mafia bullet. You cause so much disruption regardless of alignment it's no wonder everyone calls you hypnotoad.
We kill gambit man today. He ninja voted ET yesterday and he's said nothing. Eat shit and die, scum.
##vote Gambitx32 and I've got that a lot. I take the neutral stance on wether or not I'm going to die n1 as an improvement because I was told to not talk about it anymore A LOT. Allow me to remove the irrelevent parts of your post and leave the only relevant bit: Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 08:20 Toadesstern wrote: Ok if I am referring to Day2 show me the big post on d2 I was referring to on d2... OK, that's much easier to read. You are trying to tell me that when you said D2, you were actually referring to the end of night 1.... right.... Show nested quote +On June 02 2012 10:16 Toadesstern wrote: got ninja'ed About sbrubbles: I'll tell you once d2 has started for obvious reasons, sry. 'once day 2 has started' 'once day 2 has started' 'once day 2 has started' How does 'once day 2 has started', mean 'the end of night 1'. I know it sucks when you caught in a scum-slip, but take solace in the fact that it was only the icing on the cake. I was leaning strong scum on you before I even found that.
Because it's still referring to my post I did about prplhz? Because YOU will read it once d2 has started because I'm doing it right at the deadline. Wtf is this about. You even pointed at the post I did (the case on prplhz) AT THE DEADLINE and NOT on D2 and yet you keep assuming I am referrign to some not existing post on d2?
|
fact is you got in here assuming I have to be mafia although he never checked my filter because everyone else was town according to you except for risk. You went trough my filter searching for things like that not even thinking about what I meant by saying them and come up with a post that is referring to a post AT THE DEADLINE although I said after the deadline (like in 2 secs later...).
You're record on figuring me out is what so far? 0-4 or is it 0-5? You called me town in the first game we played together and I ended up being mafia, big deal but ever after that game you called me mafia EVERY SINGLE GAME we played together and yes, we played games in which I played town as well...
You've simply got to be kidding me. You said I am mafia d1 this game again, like you always do and since you have a townread on most other people you figured it's best to lynch into RB-voters because you said it was obvious RB wins while other people (hi there kurumi, wbg and prplhz) thought framer would obviously win. You're whole point is assuming that your 2 townreads are right and therefore risk and I have to be mafia and you went through my filter with that though, like in every other game since the Annul game...
|
Yes I am attacking you because I am mad at you for telling peolpe I scumslipped when I did no such thing.
I already gave all the reasoning there is to explain why nothing you said about me is alignment indicating and the scumslip just isn't a scumslip. Here's a funny sidenote: I actually had "see you d2 if I survive" written in the preview box in those 2 comments you quoted + Show Spoiler + On June 03 2012 00:35 Toadesstern wrote: Okay back and I know I promised I would talk about who those 2 guys are I mentioned and why they are mafia but I realized I was retarded when I said that. See you d2
and On June 02 2012 10:16 Toadesstern wrote: got ninja'ed About sbrubbles: I'll tell you once d2 has started for obvious reasons, sry. checked it and decided to just post "once d2 has started" without the "if I make it" or "if I survve" part because as mentioned wbg attacked me HEAVILY just 24hours (?) prior to that in my other game. I already quoted the part but here is it again:
On May 30 2012 09:48 wherebugsgo wrote: Shut up Toad you're not worth a mafia bullet. You cause so much disruption regardless of alignment it's no wonder everyone calls you hypnotoad.
[...]
You think something like that has no influence on how I post? I changed it to that neutral "see you d2" one ON PURPOSE not because I had information of wether or not I would do n1 but because I got a shitton of posts like the one wbg did just RECENTLY. Recently as in 24 hours prior to the post I made.
Yes I should have said "I'll post 10 secs prior to the deadline" instead of "on d2" but there is no post on d2 so obviously I am referring to the post I did on the DEADLINE when talking about my big post that I'm about to make. I also told you that this time I'm going to ninja you, which is just again another tell that I never intended to post it d2. How should I know how to ninja you when I was not talking about the deadline?
|
Again, Read PYP and read n1 of LV....
|
Also going to be now... it's 2:44 am I have to wake up tomorrow and I'm really mad because rad is telling people I'm mafia when imo it should be pretty obvious I am town...
Will be back in here tomorrow... just read the two games I told you (n1 one the 2nd one is enough, it's a big game) and if you still think anything Rad said is making me look scummy I can't talk back to that because everything he pointet out is perfectly explained in those 2 games. You need to read them to judge wether or not what I said a) makes sense b) is likely to be the truth. I'm not making some bullshit up I am talking about VERY RECENT things that happened that made me change several things ON PURPOSE and I'm not only talking about the "scumslip".
If you don't read those games all there is for you is flipping a coing on wether or not I am really telling the truth. If you read those games you should easily see that it's the truth and it is no coincidence...
|
On June 04 2012 09:44 prplhz wrote: Did you read Navilus' first 5 posts in Resistance 2 that I linked you to yet Toadesstern? On June 04 2012 10:04 prplhz wrote: I really hate when people just ignore my questions. I can only assume it's because the answer is "No" 'cause you probably wouldn't be reluctant to say "Yes" if that was the case and you very obviously saw my question.
I don't get how you can't read 5 short posts that I link you directly to but you have no quarrels expecting everybody else to read 1 game + 1 cycle when you're asking them to.
Yes I read them. Yes I can see where you're comming from when talking about the excuse which makes your reasoning to vote him a little less weak and understandable. I still find the reasoning to call him town in the first place weird though.
On June 04 2012 13:51 HiroPro wrote: Meh, risk.nuke's filter is still so shallow that it's hard to analyze anything. What little he does have doesn't look very good, but I'm favoring the Toad lynch.
Toad has a clear agenda in hunting for mislynches. And Toad's responses have mostly been to the "alive on day 2 thing", which I don't really consider alignment-revealing, and frankly isn't something worth discussing further.
He still doesn't really say why he tried to push a case based almost solely on a game mechanic. And he sidesteps the issue of how he went from "oh be a team player" to "confirmed mafia" to "lynch between these people is fine" by saying that "confirmed" is just a quirk of speech, and not something he really means and also with the whole "hiro protagonist-HiroPro" confusion, but that was well after the changing opinions.
And Sbrubbles appears to have disappeared.
I'm talkging about that because Radfield keeps mentioning that. I already explained everything else about the case. I explained that I thought you are a vet and I said if someone else (a vet) would have told me they didn't realize it's between RB and Framer I would have pushed them for ly as well. The moment I realized you're not the guy I thought you are I immediatly stopped pushing you and said I'm taking back what I said because it was built on the assumption that you are a vet and should know better than that. So basicly I thought I caught you lying about your vote with the assumption that you're a vet and I saw no reason to lie about your vote as a townie. I already explained this. There should be no need to post this twice although I just did it. I explained everything else as well.
|
On June 04 2012 12:59 talismania wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 09:20 Radfield wrote:
[...]
I hope people have noticed that Toad has moved on from defending himself, to attacking me. Actually I think it's more telling that toad HASN'T been attacking radfield. I mean, he's attacked rad's scumhunting abilities, but he hasn't said that he thinks rad is scum, or that rad is pushing a scum agenda, nor does it even seem like he has considered it. That's strange as hell if he's town. toad, what do you think Rad's alignment is? Why? You think prp is scum. Who do you think the other two are? Sorry I'm not omgusing like crazy. Yes I consider Rad to be town right now. I also considered Kurumi to be town. Reason being he's activly pushing things, asking questions and doing something in general although he is wrong like he always is the first couple of days... He didn't do that in AC when he was mafia until he claimed. Yes I am questioning myself right now because of this case and how I already explained why it's not showing the updated truth about me (I mentioned PYP and LV enough by now, didn't I ?...) and instead trying to paint a picture about what I should be like considering my play in WoF were I / my hydra got shot n1 as town although I'd definitely say Sandroba got shot for being Sandroba and I probably never was the prime target.
Another thing I have in mind right now is balance. Do you really think a team like Rad proposed (Toad + Risk + Zephirdd?) is likely? Against Town-WBG, against Town-Rad, against Town-Prplhz, against Town-Kurumi? Those are all here playing mafia way longer than I am, especially Rad and WBG. WBG already flipped town. Do you honestly believe someone would make a team like that? That's btw the only reason I question Rad right now. Balancewise it would make a lot of sense if he's mafia but I can't find a thing that brings me to that conclusion except for this very thought.
|
On June 04 2012 19:43 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 19:29 Radfield wrote: Also, who said anything about Kurumi being Town....
I think he is saying that there must be scum in the vet list exactly...
|
On June 05 2012 02:12 slOosh wrote:Alright - I've caught up on the thread. @Radfield - the "nonsense GF vote" refers to when several players attacked HiroPro for his GF vote but none could properly procure (in my opinion) a decent explanation as why it was scummy. That said, many of my town reads find Sbrubbles ok and right now there is the more pressing matter of consolidating today's lynch. Before that I want to preface my vote by saying that there are several players who seem keen on chasing red herrings. Stuff like "the game must be balanced in terms of vets", "why did mafia shoot WBG", "what roles would scum give town" are all that. Not because they are illegitimate discussion points (except the first one I think that's total rubbish), but there is a more pressing matter at hand which is deciding today's lynch and these three questions really do very little to nothing to determine which is the best candidate for the lynch, and serve as distractions that cripple town's focus. I find myself agreeing strongly with Radfield's read on Toadesstern, more so because of the way Toad responded to his case. As talismania pointed out, he doesn't actually consider Radfield as possible scum. He defends himself not by showing why the case's points are flawed, but rather throwing out discussion points such as balance Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 17:18 Toadesstern wrote: Another thing I have in mind right now is balance. Do you really think a team like Rad proposed (Toad + Risk + Zephirdd?) is likely? Against Town-WBG, against Town-Rad, against Town-Prplhz, against Town-Kurumi? Those are all here playing mafia way longer than I am, especially Rad and WBG. WBG already flipped town. Do you honestly believe someone would make a team like that? That's btw the only reason I question Rad right now. Balancewise it would make a lot of sense if he's mafia but I can't find a thing that brings me to that conclusion except for this very thought. as well as focusing upon the "scumslip". Radfield said himself that his case isn't built up on standalone points but that they all together suggest a pattern rather than coincidences. Yet he is treating the case as if it was some runaway bandwagon caused by someone finding a "scumslip" and focusing all his attention on this point, despite people actually thinking the opposite (compelled by the other points of the case / his response to it rather than the "scumslip") Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 08:16 talismania wrote: Actually, another point in light of the case rad just posted: why did you reply so defensively to my post at all? Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 08:32 HiroPro wrote: I agree with Radfield. I don't find the "going to be there d2" scummy but both the push on me (the uneven nature of it, especially when I look at people like Sbrubbles who also pushed me but did it very differently) and the really strange accusation on WBG (especially when Toad attempted to use this in his case against prplhz) are scummy. Toad's response to my questioning on the WBG part of his case against prplhz was bad, especially since he misrepresents prplhz (says that prplhz continued to push for WBG lynch, when in fact that was not the case at all. ##Vote: Toadesstern (I will not be voting in the actual thread until much closer to the deadline) I think we got something solid here: ##Vote: ToadessternP.s. I also think risk.nuke is scum and a great D3 lynch candidate. The reason why I support a Toad lynch over risk is because the case is stronger.
So summary: I am scum because instead of defending myself from Rad (which I did and you apparently either haven't read it or ignored it) instead of attacking him and for being defensive when talis asked me about something rather than head on attacking someone.
Nice logic. I think you need to lynch everyone in the game.
Just in case you actually skipped the posts for some reason: + Show Spoiler [#1, in general] +On June 04 2012 07:57 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 07:27 Radfield wrote:Why is Toad scum. Or rather, why do I think Toad is scum. This may be slightly long winded, and it certainly won't be concise. Toad is an active player as scum, and has fooled me twice before because of that. There is no clear and decisive scum agenda Toad is pushing, and there is no one thing that makes him scum(though I did find my first ever real-live damning scumslip). Instead what I have is a body of evidence that shows Toad is not playing with Town goals in mind. He is playing in an effort to lead mislynches, and with a goal of keeping town moving in the wrong direction. I find very little scummy in Toad's Day 0 play. With lots to contribute and lots to discuss it is extremely easy for an active scum player(like Toad) to blend in on Day 0. Apart from the fact that he begins to buddy me very early on, I see little that leads me to think he is scum in the first 24 hours. Day 1 however is a very different story. I'd like to talk about 4 main points. First, the pushing of Hiropro. Second, the WBG flip flop(which has been discussed, but not adequately). Third, and most damning, the double scum slip. Fourth and lastly, the case on Prplhz. There are also several additional small isolated issues which I will mention. Please remember that none of these points by themselves indicate that Toad is scum. But taken as an entire body of evidence they amount to a damning case against a very likely scum player. I'd also like to mention that this case is NOT based on my previous analysis of Framer/Roleblocker/GF votes. That was an exercise to narrow down my focus, NOT the basis of a case. However I am confident that I was correct in my assessment. Point Number 1: the attack on HiroproWhat I'd like to represent is that Toad attempts to push a lynch onto Hiro very strongly. A lynch not based on whether or not Hiro is scummy, but rather based solely on the fact that Hiro voted GF. Additionally, Toad states strongly and ephatically that Hiro is scum.... and then waffles away and gives alternate targets. Let me say that again, he is almost sure that hiro is scum, going so far as to say "Hiro is basicly a claimed mafia", but then offers up other lynch options. What!? If you think a guy is for sure scum, and has slipped hard, you don't just offer up other options. Also, witness the tone: First, incredulity and confusion, but no accusation: On June 01 2012 04:39 Toadesstern wrote: That's got to be a joke. Godfather? Why?!?! It was clear the decision would be either RB or framer at some point and you chose to pick Godfather and completly wasted your vote? Someone explained (I think risk?) d0 that the only solution to not screw up as mafia is to pick 1-1-1. 1 guy votes RB, one guy votes framer, one guy picks GF because that way they add 1 to each thing and don't change a thing.
So wtf? Second: Weirdness and oddness, with some discussion about why you should stick to the plans. Again, no hint of a strong accusation here. An accusation perhaps of not being a team player, even equating his play to a townie from a different game, but both those things actually soft accuse Hiropro of being Town, just not a team player. On June 01 2012 05:29 Toadesstern wrote:
Well you've got to agree that it's looking weird that you are apparently the only one who voted GF when we talked about how 1-1-1 is the only way for mafia to not screw up and all the talk d0 was either about RB > framer or about framer > RB. Why didn't you talk about this? This is essentially the same thing I was talking about in PYP when talking with risk. I have no problem with people telling me they think otherwise and that we should change a "plan" but I do have a problem with people ninja-voting without telling us screwing us over. If what you said is reasonable (and I don't think it is) you should have tried to explain to us why what you said is reasonable. Yet here you stand, voting GF and it's apparently not important enough to you what role mafia gets because you haven't told us so and you still voted GF and not, like everyone else either RB or framer. That's really odd. Next post and several hours later Toad drops down his vote without further discussion. No additional points raised, but we've gone from gentle admonition to wanting him to hang. He follows it up with this post which is a giant contradiction. A) thinks Hiro is basically a claimed mafia. B) is willing to lynch some other guy who is NOT a claimed mafia in Toads eyes. That does not jive one bit. On June 01 2012 21:50 Toadesstern wrote: I'd like to lynch into hiro or wbg at this point.
Hiro is basicly a claimed mafia who says "well yeah, but would a mafia claim mafia?" which just doesn't work for me anymore since PYP.
WBG is just plain ridiculous right now and he's way better as town than what we see here. Add that to what I mentioned earlier about him (not knowing the d0 cycle was only 24 hours, not posting) and I feel like wbg would be the best vet to lynch into if I can convince you to lynch into a vet :p
Toad then goes on to only softly push Hiropro. First adding on a convoluted reason for him to be scum, which is quickly shown to be incorrect, and then falling into softy urging posts like these: + Show Spoiler +On June 02 2012 06:17 Toadesstern wrote:1. Toad says hiro votin GF is incredible scummy 2. Rad posts: Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 05:08 Radfield wrote: [...]
Did we actually just catch scum by hiropro voting godfather?? Time to filter!!
3. ... 4. Nothing? What was your result of filterting him? That statement I quoted sounds really strong and yet I'm the only one voting hiro when noone has disagreed with it except for hiro? Is there a reason for that? On June 02 2012 06:39 Toadesstern wrote: Any chance hiros lynch is going to happen? That guy is not playing at all and I still think the GF vote is as scummy as you can get.
That being said Zephird isn't really as much as an option for me... Hiro voted Zephird and I doubt they're bussing on d1 lol On June 02 2012 07:41 Toadesstern wrote: Ok screw this, hiro is not going to happen... need to think and read and vice versa This from a guy who felt he had bagged a scum straight up. The real gist here is that Toad's tone does not follow any kind of cohesion. He's hot and cold and up and down on hiro, but always with a pushing towards lynch. Point 2: The bugs flip=flopFirst Toad makes 3 posts that point him having a pretty null read on bugs, and certainly not a scum read: + Show Spoiler +On June 01 2012 01:10 Toadesstern wrote: [EDIT: referring to bugs:)Well the game only now started and I probably look like I don't care right now as well as I'm not posting at all. The thing is that we're lacking activity right now, we haven't even got an update from everyone what they've voted and we need that.
On June 01 2012 01:52 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 01:25 prplhz wrote: [...]
@Toadesstern What do you think about it? You are acting as if my post had "Toadesstern" in place of all the "wherebugsgo"s. You are saying that you want more content and that the thread is in a bad state, and then you say that you're not going to do anything until everybody has been in here and told you their vote. That's pretty self contradictory behavior. Give me something. I'm saying that I have the same read about multiple people right now. It could be on purpose, it could be frustration and it's more of a sign of lazyness than an indication of scummyness right now. On June 01 2012 02:35 Toadesstern wrote: I read the OP once every game and when questions like those appear I check the parragraph again. I was frankly quite shocked that wbg didn't know it's only a 24h cycle because again. Those are the things I keep checking again and again to make sure I understand the details.
I'd take the "didn't know about the 24h"-thing much more as an "not caring about the game"-argument than the fact that people are posting so little right now. However, without mentioning him again, he now wants to lynch bugs. Not only that, but he's adding in bugs when he has already apparently found a 'claimed mafia' in Hiropro. On June 01 2012 21:50 Toadesstern wrote: I'd like to lynch into hiro or wbg at this point.
Hiro is basicly a claimed mafia who says "well yeah, but would a mafia claim mafia?" which just doesn't work for me anymore since PYP. WBG is just plain ridiculous right now and he's way better as town than what we see here. Add that to what I mentioned earlier about him (not knowing the d0 cycle was only 24 hours, not posting) and I feel like wbg would be the best vet to lynch into if I can convince you to lynch into a vet :p
Also, look at his reasoning: not knowing the cycle was 24 hours, and not posting. Yet those are the exact thing that Toad mentioned earlier, not as scummy though, but as null! So how do those things suddenly become the basis of a case to rival hiropro, someone he thinks is very likely scum. Straight up contradictions. Point 3: The scum slipsLet me be clear that I have never before found what I consider to be a true 'scum-slip'. The word gets bandied about on this site, and can mean pretty much anything. What it really means though, is to be in possession of information that townies could not possibly have, and only mafia could have. On June 02 2012 10:16 Toadesstern wrote: got ninja'ed About sbrubbles: I'll tell you once d2 has started for obvious reasons, sry. hmm, where's the scum-slip you ask? I missed it at first too, but it's very clearly there. Toad is absolutely 100% he will be around on Day 2. There is only 1 way, and I do mean 1 way, that Toad can be convinced he will live till Day 2. But maybe it was just a slip of the tongue, and he's not actually sure he'll survive the night.... On June 03 2012 00:35 Toadesstern wrote: Okay back and I know I promised I would talk about who those 2 guys are I mentioned and why they are mafia but I realized I was retarded when I said that. See you d2 :p Except he does it again!! He confirms the scumslip. This is a guy who just recently was shot night 1 in WoF mini-mafia, and has been getting shot more and more by mafia. There is no reason at all he should be certain he'll survive the night. In fact, if he is town he should be expecting that he is one of the more likely shots. In fact, he even posts his prplhz case right before the deadline, as if he might get shot. But how then is he 100% certain he'll survive till Day 2. There are no vets, and no other way he could be certain he will survive. The only way to be certain is if he is scum. Point 4: The prplhz caseI'm going to make this brief, as I feel there is already a body of evidence that shows Toads guilt without this. However Toads push on prplhz is indicative of a scum-push. Very often, when a scum player tries to push a townie, he does it by citing the wrong reasons. There are reasons to see prplhz as scummy, but NOT because of his defense of Navillus. The key is that prplhz defended Navillus several times, but then switched over and voted for him early on in the wagon(3rd vote). There is an argument to be made there that prplhz was scummy in doing that. Toad touches on that, but his focus is squarely on the fact that prplhz should not have found Navillus scummy in the first place. This is a competely backwards approach, one because prplhz was clear in his reasoning, and second because townies are defended all the time along the same lines prplhz was using. Toad is pushing prplhz for the wrong reason, something which scum do all the time. This is not a particularly strong point, but a valid one nonetheless.
Additionally, Toad has been buddying me all game, asking for activity without contributing himself and appealing to dead players. Add in the 4 points of my case, and you have a player who is almost assuredly mafia. Vote for Toad. In fact, I don't even mind if you vote in the voting thread too, as I'm fairly sure he is scum. ##Vote: Toadesstern Going to break the answer down to your 4 parts: Part 1: I thought Hiropro is a semi-vet. That's why I attacked him for the GF vote because I thought a vet would be smart enough to figure out that it's either RB or framer with all the talk d0 and I thought I caught him lying about why he voted for GF. Furthermore I would have considered a vet who really thinks that GF could be an issue to be more talkactive about what he found out BEFORE the end of deadline. That was basicly it. And yeah it collapsed the moment I was told hiro is not a vet. If you had told me "i wasn't sure it's between RB and Framer and therefore voted GF" I would have voted you as well. About the confirmed... Give me one game in which I don't talk about confirmed people. That's an exaggeration I can't get rid of. I called VE confirmed mafia in LV and he flipped town lol. Part 2:I added WBG to the list because I thought the 24-hour thing IS something weird while the not talking part wasn't considering that half of the players had not started talking at that time Part 3:That's me referring to the deadline. As in "See you tomorrow and in I'll answer that 10 seconds short of the deadline with one big post". Also I got A LOT of criticism for mentioning I'm a n1 target in LV. Go read n1 of that game Rad. I thought I should just keep it neutral this time because people called me disruptive in LV for that reason. Part 4:Well and I simply disagree with part 4. "Part 5:"The buddying thing. I'm not buddying I'm joking around and ever since the Annul game I am joking around with people who have been in derpgames like that and I still find it funny that you called me most-likely-town that game. I'm "buddying" you in every game. I did the same in c9++ #2, I did the same in the PYP you coached. I was town in both... + Show Spoiler [#2, about the "scumslip"] +On June 04 2012 08:20 Toadesstern wrote:Ok if I am referring to Day2 show me the big post on d2 I was referring to on d2... Here's a little quote from WBG from LV after I said I'm probably going to die n1: Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 09:48 wherebugsgo wrote: Shut up Toad you're not worth a mafia bullet. You cause so much disruption regardless of alignment it's no wonder everyone calls you hypnotoad.
We kill gambit man today. He ninja voted ET yesterday and he's said nothing. Eat shit and die, scum.
##vote Gambitx32 and I've got that a lot. I take the neutral stance on wether or not I'm going to die n1 as an improvement because I was told to not talk about it anymore A LOT. + Show Spoiler [#3, about the wbg stuff and the "…] +On June 04 2012 08:47 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 08:34 HiroPro wrote:EBWOP: My formatting is all screwed up.
On June 04 2012 00:29 risk.nuke wrote: @Hiro: Will I need to repeat every little thing so that your tiny brain can puzzle it together. I posted additional reasons for why zephirdd is a good lynch. It was not a new case because zephirdd already had a case on him. There's no need to be rude. You never mention what parts of my case or talismania's reads or Radfield's reads on Zephirdd you agree with. The reasons that you mention have nothing to do with whether or not he is mafia. You are being extremely inactive and not making any proper reads or cases of your own. Don't expect me to treat you like confirmed town.
I agree with Radfield. I don't find the "going to be there d2" scummy but both the push on me (the uneven nature of it, especially when I look at people like Sbrubbles who also pushed me but did it very differently) and the really strange accusation on WBG (especially when Toad attempted to use this in his case against prplhz) are scummy. Toad's response to my questioning on the WBG part of his case against prplhz was bad, especially since he misrepresents prplhz (says that prplhz continued to push for WBG lynch), when in fact that was not the case at all. Zephirdd and risk.nuke are both looking a little weird to me, but Toad's behavior is not only very scummy, but has clear mafia motives. ##Vote: Toadesstern (I will not be voting in the actual thread until much closer to the deadline) I never included it in my own case.. I said what Prplhz said about WBG is a null because you could say the same thing about at least 5 other people. I said the 24-hour thing however IS weird. And that was what? 24 into the game with half the thread not posting? Yeah that's got to be a really strong post ... Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 08:35 Radfield wrote:On June 04 2012 08:20 Toadesstern wrote:Ok if I am referring to Day2 show me the big post on d2 I was referring to on d2... Here's a little quote from WBG from LV after I said I'm probably going to die n1: On May 30 2012 09:48 wherebugsgo wrote: Shut up Toad you're not worth a mafia bullet. You cause so much disruption regardless of alignment it's no wonder everyone calls you hypnotoad.
We kill gambit man today. He ninja voted ET yesterday and he's said nothing. Eat shit and die, scum.
##vote Gambitx32 and I've got that a lot. I take the neutral stance on wether or not I'm going to die n1 as an improvement because I was told to not talk about it anymore A LOT. Allow me to remove the irrelevent parts of your post and leave the only relevant bit: On June 04 2012 08:20 Toadesstern wrote: Ok if I am referring to Day2 show me the big post on d2 I was referring to on d2... OK, that's much easier to read. You are trying to tell me that when you said D2, you were actually referring to the end of night 1.... right.... On June 02 2012 10:16 Toadesstern wrote: got ninja'ed About sbrubbles: I'll tell you once d2 has started for obvious reasons, sry. 'once day 2 has started' 'once day 2 has started' 'once day 2 has started' How does 'once day 2 has started', mean 'the end of night 1'. I know it sucks when you caught in a scum-slip, but take solace in the fact that it was only the icing on the cake. I was leaning strong scum on you before I even found that. Because it's still referring to my post I did about prplhz? Because YOU will read it once d2 has started because I'm doing it right at the deadline. Wtf is this about. You even pointed at the post I did (the case on prplhz) AT THE DEADLINE and NOT on D2 and yet you keep assuming I am referrign to some not existing post on d2? + Show Spoiler [#4, why I changed my "style"…] +On June 04 2012 09:41 Toadesstern wrote:Yes I am attacking you because I am mad at you for telling peolpe I scumslipped when I did no such thing. I already gave all the reasoning there is to explain why nothing you said about me is alignment indicating and the scumslip just isn't a scumslip. Here's a funny sidenote: I actually had "see you d2 if I survive" written in the preview box in those 2 comments you quoted + Show Spoiler + On June 03 2012 00:35 Toadesstern wrote: Okay back and I know I promised I would talk about who those 2 guys are I mentioned and why they are mafia but I realized I was retarded when I said that. See you d2
and On June 02 2012 10:16 Toadesstern wrote: got ninja'ed About sbrubbles: I'll tell you once d2 has started for obvious reasons, sry. checked it and decided to just post "once d2 has started" without the "if I make it" or "if I survve" part because as mentioned wbg attacked me HEAVILY just 24hours (?) prior to that in my other game. I already quoted the part but here is it again: Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 09:48 wherebugsgo wrote: Shut up Toad you're not worth a mafia bullet. You cause so much disruption regardless of alignment it's no wonder everyone calls you hypnotoad.
[...] You think something like that has no influence on how I post? I changed it to that neutral "see you d2" one ON PURPOSE not because I had information of wether or not I would do n1 but because I got a shitton of posts like the one wbg did just RECENTLY. Recently as in 24 hours prior to the post I made. Yes I should have said "I'll post 10 secs prior to the deadline" instead of "on d2" but there is no post on d2 so obviously I am referring to the post I did on the DEADLINE when talking about my big post that I'm about to make. I also told you that this time I'm going to ninja you, which is just again another tell that I never intended to post it d2. How should I know how to ninja you when I was not talking about the deadline?
Why are you telling me I haven't answered those issues? I answered every single one of them
|
|
|
|